₦airaland Forum

bros12345:
First, you children should understand that tithe was not an old testament or new testament thing.

Talk like you're a pastor

bros12345:
It is God's eternal plan for ma[/b]n to show Him respect as the source of whatever man achieves here on earth.

. . . .and where is this plan documented? do you have a copy? kindly share

bros12345:
In the garden of eden, the forbidden fruit was to be Adam and Eve's tithe. God could have asked them to chopulate every damn thing there,

. . .are you saying the forbidden fruit equate to 10% of the chop-chop in the garden but you will have to explain how the forbidden apple becomes the fruit of Adam and Eve's labor

bros12345:
Fourthly, as for how to pay tithe. The bible says it should be brought into the storehouse of God. [b]Then the priests and church managers can now decide how to distribute it between the levites, orphans, church work, etc.

Bros, this is saying you are beneficiary of tithe

Edit: the bible also says that it's not the priest that and church managers that decide how to distribute the tithe, there is a sharing formular already in place i guess you did not read that part of the bible

bros12345:
While tithing can help you gain God's mercies for physical prosperity, only righteousness can take you to heaven.

na wa ooh so you have to pay God for his mercies

Benstino:
Read Malachai.God was the one speaking directly in Malachai chapter 3.

Enigma:
Surely, you are not trying to say that it was not God speaking in both Deuteronomy passages!  

LOL i guess Moses was talking to himself in Deuteronomy Mr. Benstino knows the truth, but just need justification for something he believes in.

^^^^^ this ya poll still dey active but i think there is something wrong with the link, appears both link end up in the 'who's robbing God?' thread.

Benstino:
Stop debating and give it a try.Pls

A good number of people have tried, but no positive/favorable result

Godmother:
Can you pay your tithe to a man of God, or should the money go straight to the church?

I think the church structure determines who receives your tithe if the (so called) man of God is the owner & CEO of the church, he should be the one receiving your tithe if he is just an ordinary employee with no access to, and does not oversee or control the activities of the finance function, then it's not the man of God receiving your tithe

Edit: It also depends on your understanding of tithe. if it was the pastor that convinced you to tithe, you might as well give it to him if he ask for it otherwise there is no need for the question, you already know the beneficiary

Joagbaje:
The scriptures you quoted is not for Christians . It was for Jews.

yeah, you can say that again. when it comes to the issue of tithe, firstfruit e.t.c the old testament becomes applicable

Joagbaje:
I see people add "EDIT" if they modify a post . Is it a must?

aletheia:
^ For you: It is a must. Or are you thinking of how to erase past "evidence"?

LOL

Joagbaje:
You don't Deserve my response dear, you are only a mocker.

Actually, i was not expecting a response from you. You just exceeded my expectations here if you have read beyond the so called 'mockery', my question would have been clearer. Yes condoms does have health benefit, and you talked about ethics (which i agree with). If you believe there are ethical considerations, then it can not just be a business i mean if pastor cannot distribute condom in church (especially to singles ), then there's more to it, abi?

Joagbaje:
you are only a mocker.

com'on Jo, how can you say a thing like this You know am your friend yes, it's true i don't like 'congregation milking' pastors but i think it's wrong for you to keep seeing my post as an attempt to mock you

Joagbaje:
^^^
Then you don't know zikky, he never engaged intelligently ,only make mockery,

You don talk your own now if i return fire for fire, you will say zikkyy is insulting or 'mocking' you

Joagbaje:
Is it a must you must be the one to help them? If it's a must, then sacrifice yourself.

That's a pastor talking

Joagbaje:
its not a sin in itself ,it's only a business .

So i can engage in the sale of human body parts, abi? it's only a business

Joagbaje:
The only reason such business may not be advisabled for a christian is for the fact that, you as christian ought to be a minister, and if certain things are not seen as ethically right dor christians generally. it may be q hinderance to the gospel you're preaching. 

Sorry sir, i don't understand. are you saying we should be able able to separate business from gospel? i.e. there is nothing wrong with being a professional assassin as long as you are not in the ministry

vvguy:
Importing condom as a christain is not a sin because you want to save many ppl from dangerious diseases and also prevent unwanted pregnance.

But don't you think by making condoms available, peeps will be encouraged to engage in activities that lead to unwanted pregnancy?

Azibalua:
The partners also embarked on over 50 Charity Projects that put smiles on the faces of Nigerians. From the remotest rural communities in the country, to the renowned cities and business districts, everyone felt the impact of the 2010 ReachOut Nigeria Campaign.

Not everyone your ReachOut campaign did not reach my neighborhood

wordtalk:
The NT teaches a principle of sowing and reaping as an aspect of giving; but nowhere is it taught as a "way out of poverty". When people begin to make sowing and reaping the foundation of their "way out of poverty", you can bet your life savings that you're listening to an anti-gospel and not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Good talk but i do think you are wasting your time with Jo we are discussing his 'daily bread' here, i don't see him accepting this simple truth.

Joagbaje:
When they give , they prosper.

Clown

ogajim:
The days of these kinds of "gospels" are NUMBERED, the more people realize they simply can't buy God's favor neither can they will it, this scam will be finished and the likes of JoAgbaje will actually have to find a real job.

as long as there is poverty in the land, (along with other societal issues), Joabgaje & co will continue to live to off the sweat of the congregation.

Azibalua:
Let's not be mistaken this power is inherent in every Christian, it's not a show we put on,it's just that a lot of Christians are still in the dark about who they are in christ,it's like a 300 kva engine being used to power a self contained apartment,so much power but little knowledge of it's capacity.

So, have you done any healing with your shadow?

@Enigma, Nna an option is missing oh there is no way i'll vote if you don't have pastor listed as an option

wordtalk:
That was in answer to Kun who says he had not seen 'one single person condemn giving of tithes' - I don't think that is true. This is what I've said - "Let others do as they have determined to do after praying - and if that includes expressing their giving in the form of tithes". This does not make an argument for compulsory tithes by any means.

Thanks for the clarification I read you clearly now. Thanks

wordtalk:
For anti-tithers to say that they have not seen 'one single person condemn giving of tithes' is not the same thing as anti-tithers encouraging voluntary tithes among Christians. Many have already and always concluded that Christians CANNOT express their giving in the form of tithes and should consequently say NO to tithing

What exactly are you preaching here? that voluntary tithes be encouraged? i need clarification. Thanks

garyarnold: But it must be emphasized that a person would have to have the tenth of the crops to come up with the value before they could add the extra fifth.  No one could just come up with money for the tithe.  They couldn't sell the crops and then pay a tenth from the income, profit, or gain they received.

No dispute here gary

garyarnold:
If you are going to put the Levitical tithe in percentages, it can range from 0% to 10% maximum.

Yes, for Agricultural produce.

garyarnold:
The tithe was a tenth of the crops.

Yes.

garyarnold:
That tithe could be bought back, or redeemed, for a 20% (one fifth) penalty.  The TITHE was still the tenth of the crops, not the money.

Yes. But some people believe the levitical tithe allowed for cash. So what am trying to say here (without having to argue that tithe was strictly agricultural produce), is when (& if) the option to buy back is exercised, actual cash outflow does not equate to 10% of the tithers produce.

wordtalk:
Leviticus 27:30-32 actually defines tithe as a tenth

Let me clarify my statement. we are looking at practice here, and not dictionary definition of the word tithe. Leviticus 27:30-32 allows for the Israelite to tithe less than 10% for e.g a cattle farmer (even 0% is allowed), it requires the Israelite to tithe at 12% if he is paying cash. According to lev 27:30-32, what is acceptable as tithe range from amount less than 10% to amount as high as 12%. so tell me how the tithe then becomes 10% if God said he will accept a tithe less than or greater than 10%.

is the man paying a cash of 12% actually paying 10%? or is the cattle farmer tithing one of seventeen (1/17) animals he owes tithing at 10%? So if the Israelite tithe system allows for payment lees than 10% or greater than 10%, why would you want to define their tithing practice as payment of 10%?

wordtalk:
And so, shall we conclude that 12% defines the word 'tithe' for you?

and did i define tithe as 12%? please go back and read the post. We are not discussing zikkyy's definition of tithe.

rezzy:
I read my bible. Read lev 27: 30-32.

looks like you 've done some quick reading ehn but lev 27:30-32 will not help you

lets even ignore the income bit for now, lev 27:30-32 does not even define tithe as a tenth you don't understand let me explain

1. lev 27:31 says you can buy back your tithe of agricultural products by paying cash abi? it also says paying cash will result to the 'tither' adding an additional 2%. You know what that means cash paying 'tithers' don't pay 10%, THEY PAY 12%
2. according to lev 27:32 cattle famers are required to tithe the tenth animal that passes under the herdsman's staff if you start with 4 animal at the begining of the year and end with 9, you are not eligible to tithe

so you see, according to the bible (lev 27:30-32) tithe range from zero(0%) to 12%, it is not a tenth you need to do more reading

^^^^ abeg see the small modification to my post. i need answers, i am not ready to waste my vote oh

I'll need clarification b4 i can take this exam participate in the poll what tithe are you referring to here? is it the biblical practice or pastoral tithe

Edit: If you refer to:

1. biblical practice: i'll go for Mrs C
2. pastoral tithe: i'll go for Mr A
3. personal definition: then it can be 'all of the above', 'some of the above', 'any of the above' or 'none of the above'

rezzy:
According to the bible, tithe is one-tenth of your income.

You have not been reading your bible

@Enigma, this your exam tough oh this one pass ordinary voting i go need extra time and paper

newmi:
When l posted my first video some people said well its a show

It's still a show

newmi:
A show you call it well what a show to be inspired and spiritually motivated by a consciousness of the reality of bible experiences especially in this context the life of the apostle Peter.

Apostle Peter's shadow served the purpose of healing the sick, it was not used for making people go crazy show What i don't understand is how pastor switch these powers on/off Oyaks shadow will not perform this 'magic' if oyak is not in the mood

If Oyaks really want to perform like Apostle Peter, he should take a walk around the teaching/general hospitals

tabazani10:
if it can work as far as Botswana,why not Nigeria,

You are typing from a position of ignorance that's all i have to say to this

tabazani10:
how we long to have people like you have in Nigeria! give us those pastors!

if we can, we would have why don't you send them an invite?

Enigma:
Subject to your point that maybe garyarnold is forceful about people not using the word "tithes/"tithing" etc ---- BUT the quoted above is exactly garyarnoold's point when he says no one tithes today ---- because no one truly does it according to the Bible whether it is Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy or Nehemiah or anywhere else

You still don't get it. i don't see anybody claiming he/she tithing according to the bible. Jo for example, is tithing based on some principle he cannot explain

i think what i read people say here is that, if some great men did it in the bible, nothing wrong in us adopting a similar practice take another practice like first fruit, how do you determine the 'first' of the 'first-fruit' of your salary or how do you arrive at a 'sheaf' of the first-fruit of your salary Nna leave matter, as long as there is no standing instruction from the Almighty on the tithing method to adopt, people can define their giving as they deem fit nothing concern me The issue still remains the communications to third parties in an attempt to make them adopt these practices (usually as defined by the pastor)

Enigma:
1. In the case of debosky -- it does seem that "voluntary" truly means voluntary

yep

Enigma:
2. In the case of wordtalk, I am certain that "voluntary" does not truly mean voluntary.

yes, that's a possibility. and i've always had that feeling but i'll go with the position he has communicated we are not expecting him to come out here at a later date to say rendering a tenth to charity is not tithe. That's good enough for me.

As long as the modern day tithing remains a practice defined by man, it can take any form (it's all left to person rendering the tenth to decide or define). That's the way i see it. My position is that it should not be forced on anybody. e.g. the fraud motivated mis-interpretation of scriptures just to milk the 'juice' out of the congregation

Enigma:
^^^ My brother na de problem be dat oh ---- and also na de problem with the new fraud of "voluntary tithing",

On another note the more this debate on "voluntary tithing" has gone on, the more it has strengthened for me my own personal theory as to the possible ulterior motives for the charade of "voluntary" tithing!

There are just two (possible) tithers on around here that supports voluntary tithing namely; debosky & wordtalk and i think its personal to them. They are not in a position to push this as the standard definition or approach to tithing. So i don't really see it as an issue. It becomes an issue when it is preached (and not preached right). For me the main concern is still people like joagbaje & oyaks, for them tithing is do or die compulsory.

Enigma:
unless the teaching of tithing,, especially "voluntary tithing",  allows the "tither" to give whatever he likes (not being money) anywhere he likes (not being church) both your own wayo and this new "voluntary" tithing are fraudulent. Una all similarly be wayo.  

You expect pastor to tell congregation that they can give their tenth anywhere/anyhow they like you know that's not possible. How will pastor chop

Joagbaje:
What was you guys claim before ? That tithing is wrong and refers to children of God who gives tithes asMugus.

Anybody that submits to your fraud scheme is a mugu that has not changed.

nlMediator:
So, even if God prompted Abram to tithe, it doesn’t mean that he prompted him to tithe on everything he gets, all the time. Just as God can prompt somebody to give thanksgiving offering, because it is a good thing, but we don’t establish a practice of thanksgiving every time something good happens. Or if God prompted Jesus to fast for 40 days and 40 nights, we now teach that every christian needs to do that once a year. Or if God told somebody to pray at night, and the person sees the benefits, we now establish a principle that God wants us to pray every night. My point is that God can prompt us to do something without it being interpreted to mean that He wants us to do it all the time. That being the case, voluntary tithing, in the sense of tithing when you are led or on certain occasions is the only thing we can establish with the universal practice of tithing. So, can somebody then show me the basis for saying that the principle is paying tithes out of every income, instead of occasionally, since that deviates from what we do with such other things as prayer, fasting that we admit are good for us?

My brother, if this post was meant for Joagbaje, you are wasting your time. Jo is bent on 'milking' the congregation The Abrahamic tithe thing is just a front, pastors need money and they will do whatever it takes to get it out of the congregation.