₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje:
In Luke 13:12, Jesus healed the woman who had been bent double for eighteen long years. He premised her healing on the fact that she was the daughter of Abraham, showing that Abraham’s seed ought not to be sick (Luke 13:16).

But she was sick.

Joagbaje:
As the seed of Abraham, you’ve been blessed beyond measure. Failure, sickness, disease, lack and death cannot have dominion over you; you have the right and the power to vehemently reject them from your life. The good life is yours: increase, progress, success, fruitfulness, productivity a life of glory have become your birthright because you’re the seed of Abraham:

Now you got me all excited, i need to know, is there anything i need to do to ensure i have the good life? Do i need to do anything special to claim my birthright aside just being a seed of Abraham?

KunleOshob:
^^^

They would probably collect the tithes in cash and collect the one 'in kind' as an additional offering.

Love offering

frosbel:
However we are also here to combat false doctrine which is prevalent in the organised physical church system of these latter days.

Please do not take it personal, I am personally not attacking you or any other person for that matter.

We are fighting against false doctrine.

Thank you jare

Joagbaje:
Some others need to reach out to the nobles , and they have to be wealthy enough to be recognised and be listened to. They had to fly first class in the plane.

Oga Jo, you can't be serious . Your post was making some bit of sense till i got to this bit

Joagbaje:
We saw live on TV how the president knelt down before pastor ADeboye. Would he have knelt down before a road side preacher? Certainly not. God has positioned such men to influence the world on the bigger scale. The peasant preacher can't do that. But he can be very effective in the creeks and villages and slums. But he shouldn't judge Elijah and Jeremiah for going to the government house and talking to the king.

Elijah the prophet that was sustained by Ravens hanging out with Kings in government house so you see Jo, a prophet don't need to be wealthy/large to hang out and preach to big boys GEJ kneeling before Adeboye was politics, nothing more

inedi:
I have said it over and over and i will cotinue to say it, i believe in given, for me it is a revelation, i have experience finacial miracle as a result of my given, And if you are agaist given, Let me tell you something, you are not running God's agender

You give for profit. What this means is that you will not be willing to save a life if there is nothing in it for you. There has to be an assurance of returns for you to practice the business of giving. Now that would make Satan happy. You are no different from the politicians; they don’t implement developmental programs if there is no personal profit (in monetary terms).

inedi:
And if you are agaist given,

Nobody is against giving

inedi:
you are not running God's agender

Who is running Satan’s agenda, the man whose giving is love driven or the man that gives only when there is money (profit) to be made (e.g. inedi)?

Tonye-t:
@Zikkyy, Aletheia et al,

we'll field your questions. . .tied up with official projects.

How many of una you dey come with your pastor i dey wait

dorox:
the little girl is imitating her parents and those around her. That is what kids do, they play house in imitation of their parents. they play teacher and student also. it doesn't mean she has a clue of what she is saying when she start speaking gibberish. Then again neither do you guys know what you are saying when you go into gibberish mode, perhaps she is not too different from you guys after all.

MrBible:
[size=15pt]Tithe collectors is this verse missing from your Bible or is it only my Bible that has it?[/size]

You should be asking if tithe collectors own or use a bible, i think tithe collectors in cec use the ROR

musKeeto:
God has used Adeboye's name to heal people?
The God of Adeboye?

Sister, we need to talk

You don't believe Daddy Adeboye can have his own God

Joagbaje:
Where did you get the big revelation from.

From the bible, where else it's just that you dont understand my post, maybe its the way i post (it sometimes require you to use your head), my apologies

Zikkyy:
giving for the sole purpose of receiving is not christ-like.

The problem is that pastors are in a hurry to 'harvest' their flock you dont have the patience to wait for them to attain that level of christian maturity where giving becomes embeded in their lifestyle, becomes an 'inseparatable' part of every christian (or maybe, the pastor just believes this is not achievable). Anyways, all am saying is giving because you want something in return does not indicate sincerity. It means that person will not give if there is no expectation of return. Giving was recently categorized with giving to the pastor promising the most returns, peeps are seriously investing in this very high yield investment at the expense of other giving. Now members are likely to ignore the brother who has not eaten in the last two days to pay for the first class ticket required for the pastor’s trip to America (on vacation), or probably just to gas up the pastor’s Limo.

Joagbaje:
What many pastors are criticised for having are actually gifts. It said that pastor ADeboye received the plane as gift. God made

I dont criticize a pastor for receiving gifts. i dont criticize pastors for collecting salary, i dont see anything wrong in a pastor having legitimate wealth. if and when i criticize pastors, it wil for insensitivy to the plight of the poor/needy, for behaviors that don't align with the teachings of Christ and the apostles. My perception of the role of pastors in any society include that of acting as a moral police (maybe i am wrong), ensuring christians stay on track. We have a society that so corrupt/morally bankrupt, everybody is chasing money (most times gotten at the expense of others), pastors are also in the race and encouraging their flocks to do. now it's free for all. Money is just about the only thing peeps think about. If i insult the politicians, surely you dont expect me to ignore the pastor now do you

Edit: Pastor Adeboye is/was one of the most respected pastors around, i am not a member of redeem church, but i did like him. It was difficult for anybody to fault him, but he made a blunder when he accepted or bought a private jet. It changed the perception of a lot of people outside of his church ( and even within), and he got a lot of hits. Why, it's because he exhibited a behavior not expected of a holder of such an officeg.

Joagbaje:
It's their choice and nothing is wrong with that . A man can sow for a purpose. If he wants to hit it big. It's his faith. It's allowed. It also depends on what he wants to hit it big for. Christian wealth is for serving God and not appetite.

Of course nothing is wrong with that. As long as the pastor get to pocket the money abi Thats all the pastor is interested in, the cash inflow.

Joagbaje:
You can't speak for me. I should speak for myself.Others should speak for themselves as well. That's manipulative of you.

Let me assume you dont even understand my post I don't speak for you, i speak for myself. This is based on observation. I speak from personal experience. An illustration might help; At a point in time, i lived in a house where i'll say i was the only one not tithing.  People around me tithing and sowing was not because they wanted surplus to propagate the gospel, it was not because they wanted surplus available to assist the needy. They wanted wealth to live the good life, they only support the gospel with the belief it might bring them riches. They had big plans for the money and needy/poor, pastors or church never featured in that plan. Mr. Jo i had neighbors in the busisness of 419 tithing, and do you think it because they love the gospel

mabell:
Wealth can be gotten by giving to the right places ie your pastor, your offerings, tithes seeds, helps e.t.c

you dont get wealth by giving. Your blessing comes from living a christ-like life. giving for the sole purpose of receiving is not christ-like.

mabell:
A christian prospers at the level of his giving, if he gives little, he recieves little and vice-versa

So the poor will continue to operate at their level cos they have little to give while the rich will continue to hit it big.

Joagbaje:
No one is competing with the world in riches. The wealth of believers is for serving God. I may not be ablle to have 2 million in my account doing nothing. But I can check how many millions have passed through my hands to bless others. So it's possible to live a simple life and yet, you have been a tremendous blessing to people. That's Christianity. The world may boast in asset. We glory in touching lives.

It's rare for a pastor to preach this, very few christian actually practicing this. You guys only come up with statments like this when you are defending your position. The truth is christians in their thousands (or millions) are sowing left, rifgt & center just to hit it big, for their personal benefit. If you think christians are pouring millions into the pastor's/church pocket just to have money to help the needy, you are living a dream and its time you wake up

frosbel:
Dear brother, I can see that unlike many others here who preach false doctrine, you sometimes do so not intentionally or with malice but in sincerity.

He has no option. His preachings have to be consistent with that of his oga, or he's thrown to the wilderness. He is not likely to survive that.

Joagbaje:
If Paul hadn't pronounced blessing on them , they would still have received through him because of the principle. That was why paul was excited that they gave him. Not because he wanted anything from them but because they are operating a principle that will bless them ,their blessing was his concern.

The belief now is that wealth can only be acquired through the pastor. This is consistent with inedi's position that the pastor is the key to prosperity of a nation. God is officially on vacation, ceding all powers to the pastor Maybe Abrahams got his properity through Melchi, afterall melchi blessed Abram and Abram gave in return.

Joagbaje:
God created the principle . You give out carbon dioxide to plants and in exchange you get oxygen from them.

Yeah, and you give out nutrient rich blood to mosquitoes and and in exchange they give you malaria why you dey fall my hand all the time

Joagbaje:
Paul gave them blessing. A minister has ability to make men rich. By speaking blessing upon them.

I am yet to read a verse in the bible where men became rich from pastorial blessing (after giving to the pastor) If paul has ability to make the church rich, why so much effort gathering collections for the needy. why spend so much preaching that christians should assist one another, why did he refuse assistance from the corinthians (when he was with them) knowing it will make them rich

Joagbaje:
So paul pronounced blessings upon them.

. . . and did they became rich, loaded abi can you provide support for this

inedi:
OK maybe you have problem understanding the Old testament,

maybe

inedi:
lets read
(philipians 4:10-17)
But I rejoice in the Lord greatly, that now at last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. Not that I speak in respect of want: for i have learnt, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased and I know how to abound; every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
I can do all thing through Christ that strengtheneth me. Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. Now ye Philipians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning given and recieving, but ye only.
For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

Okay. But no vex, i like to know what the Philipians received in return for their giving i don't see that info in your post above did it go round? i.e. every philipian that contributed to Paul got something in return

it's not my fault, i always like to have full disclosure thats how i learn

inedi:
am sur eits not verse 19, but verse 9
to understand it better i whold like you to read ( luke 4:26) " But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow

What are you understanding better the Luke text is not relevant here.

inedi:
the word commanded there does not mean that God spoke to, but God was make the prophet know that he still had food for him, it was like in this womans house i have made provision there go and eat,

It's right in front of you, but you dont see it The 'miracle' was not just for the woman, it was also for Elijah!

Like i said earlier, this is not a good illustration for your give and receive scam. see if you can come up with a more convincing story like Jo giving to receive prado or ipad

inedi:
The womans faith moved Elijah to proclaim blessings of prosperity upon her ( 1 Kings 17:14).

This is why am posting on this thread

inedi:
she gave and rcieved before the challange nof her son came
read verse 12- 16
the challange came in verse 17, read it thank you

Read my post again, or let me clarify; how do you believe the words of a prophet if you have doubt in his anointing? the restoration of her son erased doubts about Elijah's anointing, and this happened some time after she cooperated with Elijah and got what you called a 'miracle'

24And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, [size=14pt]and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.[/size]

inedi:
Mr KunleOshob, God did not instruct the woman, He never spoke to her, God only spoke to the prophet or how do expain vers (12-16) it was the prophet that told her what God said.

inedi:
the issue is that God spoke to the prophet, but we dont have an acount were God spoke to the widow,

Let also look at some verse just before some Elijah was sent to the widow

4And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; [size=14pt]and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there[/size]. 5So he went and did according unto the word of the LORD: for he went and dwelt by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan.  6And the ravens brought him bread and flesh in the morning, and bread and flesh in the evening; and he drank of the brook.

we don't read God instructing the ravens to feed Elijah abi , but the ravens knew they had to feed the prophet abi

Tonye-t where are you its too early in the year to proceed on your annual pilgrimage to Greece o respond to my questions before you go abeg

inedi:
the issue is that God spoke to the prophet, but we dont have an acount were God spoke to the widow, she had her choice, either to give or not to, even though it was not convinent for, but she gave, and her given caused a harvest, what is that? exchange, she gave and she recieved.

maybe she had a choice. Yes she would have died if she has not agreed to grant Elijah's request. It even appeared she had some doubts about the genuiness of the prophet, it took the restoration of her son to believe. So why did she give?

24And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

What you refuse to see is that God already has a role/job for her, to feed Elijah all through the period of drought! Where do you think the food will be coming from It could have been anybody. So my sister/brother the so called harvest was not because she gave to a prophet. if you must preach your giving & receiving scam, this is not an appropriate illustration.

inedi:
but she gave, and her given caused a harvest, what is that? exchange, she gave and she recieved.
Life itsel is built on exchange, given and recieving, even the air you breath is exchange, you give out carbon and take in oxigen.

So are you saying God operates on the principle of give and take How does love come into the equation here

BTW, i still think you should be in jail

Joagbaje:
No, zikky when you give ,you receive. They gave to paul and paul blessed them . Their blessing paul and Paul blessing them is the exchange. Read the passage again.

Thanks for the clarification Jo, i understand your post better now. but no vex, there are some things not quite clear, maybe you can help . . .

Joagbaje:
They gave to paul and paul blessed them . Their blessing paul and Paul blessing them is the exchange.

Joagbaje:
The GIVING is from them to paul. The RECEIVING is from paul to them.

1. I assume they gave Paul cash or something close to that, what is Paul giving back
2. I also get the impression here, that it is Paul that gives back i.e. a direct exchange. I need to understand how this work

Joagbaje:
No, zikky when you give ,you receive.

I am not so sure now but what i read you say here is that for every giving, there must be a receiving. we must give to receive. No giving, no receiving. Kindly clarify. Thanks

Joagbaje:
Those who give tithes give willingly by knowledge of truth.

this how pastors deceive congregation What truth are you talking about

yommyuk:
If the Holy Spirit leads you to give 10, 20, 50 or 100%, do it cheerfully but not under compulsion.
When it is done under pressure it becomes a law which is of no benefit.

true, and it also becomes a law when people are adviced/coerced to giving in percentages.

inedi:
it didn't mather how it was communicated,

it matters o!

inedi:
we give by conviction.

. . . that you will experience naira/dollar rain after giving abi

inedi:
The story of Elijah and the widow of Zarephath in 1 Kings 17 is a touching one. The widow gave the prophet of God all she had, which was a ration that was joust enough to keep to keep herself and her son alive. The womans faith moved Elijah to proclaim blessings of prosperity upon her ( 1 Kings 17:14). The little she had was multiplied and she didn't lack throughout the duration of the famine.

Stop posting what you dont understand The widow was chosen (way in advance) to care for Elijah

1 Kings 17:8-9
And the word of the LORD came unto him, saying,
9Arise, get thee to Zarephath, which belongeth to Zidon, and dwell there: behold, I have commanded a widow woman there to sustain thee.

secondly, Elijah already 'proclaimed blessings of prosperity upon her'  before she agreed to co-operate

1 Kings:13-15
13And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son.
14For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth.
15And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.

Can your pastor provide such assurance money back guarantee if yes, a lot of people will pay

inedi:
When you study your Bible you would discover that the Kings and Governments of the day weren't responsiple for the prosperty of the people. The prophets were the ones responsible, for they were God's representatives. Not much has changed since then.
Crying to political leaders to improve the economy of the nation wouldn't yield much result because you're calling on the wrong people; they don't have means to empower you with wealth.

Edit: So we should cry to your pastor abi You come here selling pastors as the sole source of our prosperity. Pastors are responsible for the prosperity of Nigeria abi so if every Nigerian pay to your pastor there will naira rain and we all be moving about in private jets and helicopters. This is just criminal, you deserve to be in jail (with your pastor), its 419

Joagbaje:
@frosbel

It is all in the scriptures.

Philippians 4:15
15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.

When you give,there is a receiving . That is exchange.

When i give to the pastor, he receives my giving Thats your idea of exchange abi you call a uni-directional transaction exchange abi thats a pastor talking

dorox:
The fact is that Tonye-t is a hypocrite like the pharisees of Jesus' day and just like them he knows the truth about tithing but the truth does not interest him. He continues to spread this falsehood about tithes because he profits from it and he will do anything to keep as many people as he can in bondage weighing them down as it were a heavy yoke.

we are fully aware. But that's not the reason i argue with him. I just need him to shut da f_ck up he's spreading too much poison here.

@Tonye tithing-t, where are you i need response to my questions please

Tonye-t:
Now if Jesus was connected to the order of an ancient spiritual priest, dont you think tithing should be made to refer to how this ancient priest collected his own?

sir, it would be nice to truly understand the connection Jesus has with the order of an ancient spiritual priest You have only told us there is a connection, zikkyy need to know how. for example, it's not enough to say Rev. King is a pastor and therefore annoited MOG abi

Tonye-t:
. . . . and abandoned the tithing according to their customs (i.e. the way Moses said they should give it)

Tonye-t:
How did they tithe? the way Moses said they should!

Oga Tonye, no vex, just reading these posts. I see you refer to the mosaic tithe as custom. Are you saying it was Moses that instructed the isrealites to tithe i.e are you saying it waas not the Almighty that required tithe of the other eleven tribes

Tonye-t:
and that was why bible connected Jesus to have come under melchisedec's order

Come under ke plese sir. i need more education here. what exactly is Melchizedec's order that Jesus has to come under it. Again, what i take away from your post is the superiority of Melchi to Christ. kindly clarify, thanks

Tonye-t:
vs.11 - there is now a further need that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec(the ancient order that came before the levitical imperfect order), and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Abeg, no vex, one more question; i read you say Melchi did not die, meaning his perfect order continue to exist. If that's the case why the need for an 'levitical imperfect order' i am fasting and praying for a response

Tonye, it appears you are in a good mood i hope you dont mind zikkyy asking some questions, just for clarification

Tonye-t:
this shows that Tithing is a spiritual worship because A physical being gave to A being whom bible said never had Mother nor Father; who never had a beginning nor an end. . .meaning he was not born nor did he die

Kindly confirm sir, are you saying Melchizedek is spirit Also confirm if Melchizedek is Christ. For zikkyy to truly understand your teachings here, i need full disclosure, so please dont be like joagbaje and oyaks (these guys teach stuff even they dont understand), lets have the full gist

Tonye-t:
this custom trailed as a sacred thing so much so that the bible said "the levites" paid tithes whilst in Abraham's loins. *recall that by this time, the levites had never existed not even their ancestors after Abraham* which means an unexisted (spiritual) generation paid tithes even before they existed(became physical)

Following your logic here, i guess i'll be correct to say that even Christ paid tithe to Melchi Dont you think that makes Christ much lower/lesser than Melchi please clarify. I am loving your teachings