₦airaland Forum

nuclearboy:
Tonye-T always loved the tithe issue but I never saw him display so much vitriol

Very true. He knows what he is doing. Its an attempt to discourage peeps from making tithe related posts

nuclearboy:
I think Tonye should NOT be ignored.

Again i agree with this. Thats just what he wants. He has been reading quietly (and angrily ) for some time, probably decided to do something bout the frequent criticism of tithe. Anything to dissuade peeps from talking about tithe

Azibalua:
1. tithing pre -existed the law, so it could not have gone with the law,it's a principle that has always been like prayers,worship.e.t.c

What form of tithing pre-existed the law one commanded by God (as delivered by Moses), or one developed by man (custom/tradition) What went with the law was that prescribed by Moses (based on instruction from the Almighty

Is the issue about the practice itself (thats one reason i don't criticize you for paying) or is it about the lies you tell to justify the practice (and thats why i will always fight Jo, your oga)

garyarnold:
Conclusion: Abram did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abram gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him and declined to keep the goods offered to him. That is NOT an example of tithing for Christians to follow today. By declining to keep any of the goods for himself, Abram showed his faith that God would provide. That is the example of faith that Christians should be following. Furthermore, the law did NOT require a tenth of war spoils to be given, so to say that tithing was before the law and then in the law is not true. What Abram did was NOT even codified into the later law.

NO ONE is following Abraham's example by tithing a tenth of their income to the church. That is just pure foolishness and shows a lack of understanding the scriptures.

Good talk gary

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=676553.msg8419011#msg8419011 date=1306749260]The definition best describes your likes, Kunle(the chief-liar), frosbel-d-hypocrite, petres007(the brainwashed trailer), Ogajim the napkin ranter.[/quote]I understand why you are angry I know it’s quite difficult to accept when something you’ve always believed in (& practiced) turns out to be a lie. I truly understand, and that’s why I am not willing to return your insults But I do think your anger should be directed at your MOG for feeding you lies all this years

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=676553.msg8419425#msg8419425 date=1306754020]@Zikky,

2years down the drain, you are still putting on pampers. *shakes head in disgust* [/quote]I better pass you still going about unclothed I will be migrating to boxers very soon don’t hesitate to inform me as soon as you are certified old enough to start wearing pampers As your very good friend, I still have some used pampers that’s just your size

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=676553.msg8419011#msg8419011 date=1306749260]Zikkyy,

what is definition of Hypocrite? -

hyp·o·crite
   [hip-uh-krit][/quote]See me see wahala Wetin concern zikkyy with the definition of hypocrite It was you who said the condemnation commendation was not just for the scribes and Pharisees, that you are also a beneficiary. I just don’t understand why you are fighting zikkyy for agreeing with you, abi you no want support Anyways let’s take another look at that verse again

[color=#990000][color=#990000]Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites sorry Tonye-t! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.[/color]

Nna, you are very correct Jesus was also referring to you. My brother, nothing do you, please go ahead and pay your tithe in line with (mosaic) law

Azibalua:
As Christians we must always sow our seeds in the right place. It's our responsibility to sow into our man of gods life, it activates blessings on our behalf

Taking a cue from the phillipian church after they had ministered of their substance to Paul under the anointing he declared

For people like you seed sowing is a business venture, a get rich quick scheme BTW are you able to confirm the philipians became loaded subsequent to 'sowing' (as you call it) into Paul's life

Joagbaje:
^^^
We pay it to God. Through christ. If we tow your line of arguement ,then we don't even need to pray again.

I dont understand. When its time for prayers we pray to God direct as we stand in Christ stead. Jesus no get hand for that one. Now we must pay tithe to God through Christ. Oga Jo, you like to interprete scriptures for pastoral benefits

BTW, if we pay through Christ, what is the pastor's role in this process is he the one to take it to Christ for onward delivery to the Almighty

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=676553.msg8415597#msg8415597 date=1306688415]
Hmm now I see, so simply because Jesus made that comment before his death means that it should be treated as the law and not the gospel.
[/quote]You know better Tonye You know it goes beyond timing, you know the reference was the levitical tithe, you know the Jews dont pay the one-off Abrahamic tithe to Melchizedek I honestly think you should give up on this tithing matter. You only make make sense to money loving pastors (thats because your posts tend to support their scam) and those members of congregation that can be categorized as 'brain dead'

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=676553.msg8415418#msg8415418 date=1306686318]
And to add, the original tithe as practised by Abraham our father, was that He gave as a token of appreciation , not as a seed for returns. [size=14pt]That my friend is the true order of tithing. Anything contrary to that is a scam. quote me![/size]

simple![/quote]Make some sense here, but tithing is still not a christian requirement. you should be talking to Jo, your brother in tithe he believes otherwise

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=676553.msg8415455#msg8415455 date=1306686753]Matt 23:23 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, [size=16pt]hypocrites![/size] for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. KJV

What is that "the other" that should not be left "undone"? pls tell everyone here![/quote]You know Tonye, i am one of the very few that believed Jesus was also talking to you dont mind those haters jare this verse is not for scribes and pharisees alone carry go with the tithe payment jare

frosbel:
Tithing contradicts the foundations of the New Covenant and life in Christ. It promotes a mentality that holds Christians in spiritual immaturity and weakness. The problem with tithing is not the percentage; it's the spiritual perspective that causes people to think, to believe, and to act inconsistently with the truth of what God has done through Christ and their relationship to him as a son.

frosbel:
We don't do things to earn blessings. Neither is there a curse upon us if we fall short. God is looking for mature sons who will abide in Christ and allow him to live through them. God wants us to walk by faith and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, not tithe.

frosbel:
The mind we have in Christ is a consciousness of already having all needs met, even though the provision may not be seen in the natural realm. That is faith. The idea that giving will cause God to do something is not faith, it's a mentality of lack and manipulation. When giving is based on love for people and faith that God has already provided for you, then it's in agreement with the truth

musKeeto:
Quite correctly, people's names were changed by God in the Bible. We even have people who were named before they were born. But, just like annointing oil and handkerchiefs, people have begun to chase the manifestations instead of the true God. God is the source of power, God doesn't change your name, he changes your inner man. He gives life to you on the inside. You can bear the name Moses and still be a failure. You can bear the name Abraham and be a crook.

Bear good names. But watch your heart, that's what matters. Cheers,

Good talk makes a lot of sense

Azibalua:
Abraham paid tithes to melchisedek before the law came into being,you have shown that christ came in the order of Melchizedek according to scriptures
Therefore tithing is a principle of god instituted before the law
When the law was abolished tithing was not because it existed far before the law

It was instituted before the law abi   who instituted tithe before the law God or man Since he came in the order of Melchizedek Jesus has no option, he must follow precedence and collect tithe, cos the man that once occupied his post collected tithe Please note that nobody collected tithe on behalf of Melchizedek, he was collecting his tithe himself (no proxy) So, if you believe Christ is of similar or equal status with Melchizedek, i guess Jesus should be collecting his tithe himself

Azibalua:
Where are you getting the money you so carefully hold back

One thing i can tell you, it's not from tithe and offerings or even first fruit or offer 7 I dont get paid for teaching half truth i don't sell rhapsodies handouts. I've done some bit of teaching but always ensure i deliver the complete package, no need for the participants to buy my ROR handout Paul would have been rolling in millions/billions of shekels if he was selling his writings/letters Imagine how much his estate would have been grossing today Anyways, it your turn to respond to my question

Joagbaje:

Bad timing you dont even know when to laugh truly sad

newmi:
Am not yet a pastor before you unleash the dragon but be it known unto you that some of the biggest givers are pastors

. . . .and who would you say are the beneficiaries of pastors giving. Where is pastor getting the money he's 'dashing' out

Joagbaje:
1 Corinthians 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption ().

True wisdom is of the Spirit. It’s much more than the mere application of knowledge; it’s a force that controls you. It makes you say and do the right right tithings at the me. It guides you and causes you to be in the centre of God’s will for your life, doing God’s things God’s way, and in God’s time!

Jo, if i remember correctly, you said sometime ago that human cooperation is required for God's will to be done. Here Oyaks is saying divine wisdom takes control of man and makes him act in accordance to God's will. How do we reconcile your statements in the past with this

EarsWide:
Churches collect money from the public in the form of tithes and offerings - so should account for the money they collect.

I agree publicly quoted companies are required to give more disclosures

KunleOshob:
I am still not impressed with their so called innercity mission.

KunleOshob:
The even more annoying things is that this thread is designed to glorify Oyaks

It's pastor chris innercity missions, not christ embassy So pastor chris can take the glory

newmi:
hmmmmmm l see it is really hard for me to make you see because with every post you make it becomes more and more evident how that you grttinh everything wrong

Okay

Kgdavid:
@ the bolde, thats unecessary repition sir lol

Knowing pastor's boys (and girls) are usually not so smart people, i'll pretend i never saw the your comment

Kgdavid:
on a serious note, are you saying the mode of transportation influences the validity of the message?

I am saying it does not. using private jet to transport the word does not add value to the process. It simply a waste of resources. Its just for the MOG to show off

Joagbaje:
Romans 12:10
God’s love does not insist on his own right or his own way for it’s not self-seeking. In other words, it cares more for others than for self. As a child of God you must learn to put others first. This is one of the characteristics of “agape” – God’s kind of love – it’s not selfish. The Bible says “Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another” ().

Joagbaje:
Further Study
1 Corinthians 13:1-2 AMP
IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

2And if I have prophetic powers (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love (God's love in me) I am nothing (a useless nobody).

Oyaks should take this sermon to his private jet loving colleagues. They need to read these verse and repent. A pastor with a private jet does not have God's love in him

JeSoul:
Its not that they're not simple, its that their faith is not strong enough to power a jet yet.

What i read you say is that this private jet issue is not as 'simple' as it appears to be

newmi:
ok perhaps they need private bicycles that will please you se bi

Private bicycles makes a lot of sense it's a reflection of the pastor's 'simplicity'

newmi:
who says that the properity of a "preacher" must be connected to his congregation

ha, there is a connection o the pastor has no other job, his business revolves around the congregation. meaning the congregation is his source of wealth. He should give back something

livin:
Meaning those with with jets r not simple

Yes o Jo no dey disappoint While he trying to untangle/ free himself from one blunder, he is commiting another one

Joagbaje:
@jesoul
He has only one branch of church.He doesn't have multiple branches of churches to over see and visit. So he has no need of jet plane logically. And besides there is no source to the fact that he has one.

So private jet is meant for branch visit to check up on the collections all this while i had the impression it was meant for taking the gospel to previously unexplored locations

JeSoul:
Hmm, this a very tough call . . .

which source should we trust? Forbes? or patrick45?

Just trust Jo I know he is not so reliable, but he could be right

Jo, you don dey fall my hand as usual how can you use this post below . . . . .

Well i am not saying this to mean that some pastor are better than the other, cos the bible expressly instructed that "we should not judge", My pastor Rv. Sam Adeyemi. Drives himself and wife to church every sunday. No tinted glasses, no convoy nothing. I just believe that people are different and do things differently , having cogent justification for their actions.

. . . . . . to arrive at your conclusion on Sam Adeyemi private jet status

Joagbaje:
Pastor Sam Adeyemi doesn't own a jet.

or you expect the man to fly his private jet to church every sunday

newmi:
@ Zikkyy
you know what l have been bornagain way before l began fellowshiping with the thought provoking teachings and preaching of Pastor Christ, so l had been conceived and raised in the word by the Holy Spirit not withstanding, what he teaches are from the bible and God has graciously granted everyone of us the previllege of owning bible

This is not my concern

newmi:
stop always trying to deray a potentially good and educative thread by always looking for opportunities to turn personal.

What's personal about my post and what do you mean by derail i have been consistent right from my first post, which was a response to the OP so how did i derail

newmi:
please read what l posted, l said and emphasized the fact that it is not what you want to see (remember the mirror princiole?) but rather what God through His word by His Spirit reveals to us as we look[b](meditate)[/b] on His Word

Only if you are capable of meditating and it still depends on what your objectives are Whether you like it or not we are saying the same thing. It's not enough to say what you see is what was revealed to you. You still need to process what was revealed to you. Your processing is your interpretation of what was revealed to you.

newmi:
stop always trying to deray a potentially good and educative thread by always looking for opportunities to turn personal.

It was educative alright. . . . . . .

Joagbaje:
So every day, she carried her husband and placed him in front of the TV, and all the man could do was look! He couldn’t talk, [size=14pt]think[/size], move or recognize anything; not even his own house.

The sermon talked about the man that could not think or recognise anything abi but he could look abi

Joagbaje:
Then after several months, he began to recognize things around him; [size=14pt]he saw the miracles on TV and he began to believe.[/size] Gradually, [size=14pt]his reasoning returned[/size], and also, strength, returned to his body, until he regained full consciousness, became hale and hearty, and returned to work.

the man also believed before he could reason this out (the typical cec member) abi

So what have i learnt simple, he looked and saw what Oyaks wanted him to see (he never reasoned it out) on t.v and believed (of course Oyaks version of the gospel) . Please note, have not said Oyaks is right or wrong, that's would amount to derailing the thread .

So lets go back to my initial statement First, let quote Oyaks one more time (courtesy of Jo ) . . . .

Joagbaje:
What happened to him was that as he looked, he was changed!

I wonder why everybody dont change. He was not the only one that been watching atmosphere for miracle na A lot of people do watch Atmosphere for Miracle. Why is that some others dont change Maybe it goes beyond just looking abi

@Kgdavid, i see dare2think has responded to your question But i had something else in mind when i made that post

Kgdavid:
how do you propose God's word should travel from Nigeria to pakistan from example? by boat??

I am sorry sir, i see you dont understand my post let me rephrase

What do you think Dressing up/package the word of God in Armani suit, relax it in luxurious condition (private jet with extremely expensive leather mix with the finest wood) and send to pakistan (popping champange all the way ).

Do you think this beautiful care and comfort given to the word enhances or increase the probability of acceptance by pakistanis especially when you take into consideration the fact that you will be leaving behind in pakistan, a 50cents (at most one usd)  version of the word What value does it add to the spread of the gospel

Azibalua:
The only thing that has stood the test of time without faltering is gods sure word

Nobody faults this. But how do you relate this to the economy the only aspect of the economy that appears to be standing the test of time is poverty So how does preaching the gospel eradicate poverty How does it put food on the table It's very easy to just throw words around (no backup to substantiate your comments). Right now you dont make any sense Its not ideal to make statements even you dont understand

Azibalua:
But of course you can't understand this

Do you

dare2think:
When did God's word need jets for conveyance?

I like this Very good question

newmi:
@ Zikkyy
l think you getting everything wrongly the idea is not one of seeing what you what to see but rather what the word of God mirrors to us showing us the true picture and perspective of the Creator God and the Father of all flesh and spirits like the bible refers to Him.

newmi:
so my dear it is not what l or anybody else wants to see but rather the emphasis is rather on seeing in corrolation and sync with what God through His word shows us

You know your problem? Anytime you look at the word, what you see is as taught by Oyaks (and thats what you want to see). i.e. Oyaks already told you what you would find anytime you look at the word, and thats exactly what you see. Erase Oyaks sermon from your database and take another look, am sure you will see things differently

Azibalua:
Why is it so difficult to believe something as simple as this.

If it was that simple, Osama Bin Laden would have died believer. I am sure he looked at the word A good number of unbelievers have taken a look at the word, maybe you should ask yourself why they refuse to change

Azibalua:
he has a plane not used just to visit countries but to spread this gospel in various countries, is this a show of wealth?

He was able to spread the gospel in these countries prior to the acquisition of the planes, and he can still spread without the plane. There are other pastors making similar impact (if not more) without the use of private jet. So, it easy for us to conclude that the private jet does not add value to the spread of the gospel Your daddy (Oyaks) is doing fine without a privte jet abi

Azibalua:
In a country ravaged by poverty what do you think the solution is?
It is not in giving money to the masses but rather in the preaching of the gospel.

This is spiritual Economics Do you think if we spend more time (6 days in a week) in church, nigeria economy would bounce back in no time would be nice to know how economies develop via the application of the gospel (only) Madam Azibalua, i hope you will not run away I need answers please Also provide case studies

Azibalua:
even if we sell the planes and give the monies to the beggars on the street,beautiful but I can tell you that in a short while they will go back to begging because that was just a placebo ,the real problem is spiritual and can only be handled thru gods word

Interesting