₦airaland Forum

ogajim:
Though for today: He gave His all for thee, what hast thou given Him?


MY HEART AND SOUL + LOVE FOR ALL HIS CHILDREN.

Nice

ogajim:
PS: It looks like a lot of Nigerian "Churches" have opened NL branch offices now, way to go NL

You read my mind. Was about making similar comment.

Joagbaje:
I have often asked myself if the owner of NL makes money from it, and if he doesnt I will like to contribute financially. Me as a giver dont like to enjoy things free. I use wikipedia and i used to think they make money from it until one day i saw the owner soliciting for donation. It touched me and i said  i have to send money to them" I was going to do a post to ask how naira land is funded.

You too much abeg! I hope you dont mind if i start calling you Pastor Jo 'The Money Man' Agbaje  

Joagbaje:
There is nothing like compolsory tithing .

Thank you.

nuella2:
The name your father called him? I think you guys prefer native doctors in nairaland. Abi you are a Abu zola? Hatred flows in your veins.

Are you the P.A  

viaro:
@Traugott, Zikkyy and all who visit this thread (including my anti-tithing friends ),

Once again I apologise to you all for the way things have turned out. It started simply, progressed with a rumbling, and now seems to have spiralled into a hurricane! Such is the way debates between people on this subject tend to pan out, and I'm not glorying over it - which is why I won't go so far as to lay blame on anyone. On my part, I simply apologise and hope to move on.

____________________

The post above was what got me confused as I believed that verse was trying to emphasize the superiority of the Melchizedek priesthood over that of the Levites and nothing more. The comment above appears to see Abraham’s action as an actual tithing activity by the descendants of Abrahams.

I understand where you're coming from and regret any confusion that might seemingly have risen from that section of my post - it was not intended, and I trust that you could understand it was not encouraging coercive giving at any instance.

Again, there's nobody I know of who does not have difficulties with these things. I acknowledged several times that the thrust of the book of Hebrews was the superiority of the work, the Person and the Priesthood of the Lord Jesus Christ; but particularly with reference to chapter 7 there is no sound theological scholarship arguing that either verse 5 or 8 or 18 "abolishes" tithe. Rather, I have agreed with a few here and elsewhere that these things are not pictured for us in a sense of literalism, but rather showing us principles - the same thing that, at least, TV01 has come back to agree to.

I have made this point clear as simply as I could, excerpting examples from various sources to show the same thing, and noting that my convictions are not to be regarded as 'law' or 'binding' on anyone else who disagrees. The One Person there who lives perpetually is Christ, and I showed verses that led me to that persuasion. The persuasion I argued was not meant to be regarded as a "mandate", and I do hope that that point is always kept in view.

Regards.

Ba wahala 

Joagbaje:
I did not get your questionn well. and Please the name is joagbaje, not "pastor"

Why you dey fear to answer your name?

Na wa oooh. You guys have turned this thread to something else. I will need a bulletproof vest and helmet to survive here  Infact i considered backing out, only i have promised Viaro i will be back with my concerns.

@Kunle/Viaro, i am looking forward to the e-party that will be organised for you guys the day you settle your quarrel 

@Viaro

viaro: Those who receive the office of the priesthood have a commandment to take tithes of their own brethren - but verse 6 shows that even where someone (Melchizedek) was not counted from their pedigree, he also received tithes from the Levites! He would not have been able to do so if and only if (iff) the PRIESTHOOD was a less important issue in the faith of God's people - and it is the priesthood that makes all the difference

The post above was what got me confused as I believed that verse was trying to emphasize the superiority of the Melchizedek priesthood over that of the Levites and nothing more. The comment above appears to see Abraham’s action as an actual tithing activity by the descendants of Abrahams.

Reading through Hebrews 7:1 to verse 8, I would say the writer was still referring to Melchizedek and again the emphasis on the superiority of the priesthood. I am having difficulty interpreting it to imply a continuity of the tithing practice.

@Viaro, Enigma, Traugott, you guys have hijacked this thread. I am not so keen posting my views on the subject of mandatory tithing here as I think we are deviating from the initial question.

@Viaro, I am a bit confused by this talk on levi paying tithe to melchizedek. My understanding of such talk here would amount to saying Zikkyy is a tither because his grandfather paid tithe. Maybe you need to educate me more cos I don’t think that is the message being passed across by Paul here. I think the emphasis here is on the superiority of Christ priesthood over the levitical priesthood (this I have seen in your posts and agree with) and not tithing. Hope you will be able to take some time out to educate me on how verse 8 shows“continuity” to tithing.

If you do see and respond to my post, i might not be able to see it till about mid-day tomorrow (Nigeria time), then I will be able to clarify my concerns.

P.S. I think your man James Burton Coffman is on his own.

Bobbyaf:
Does it matter where I am from? What matters is that you get what I am saying.

You are not saying much. Please read the thread so we derive more value from your post.

@Bobbyaf, it helps if you could take out some time to read the thread from page 1. Then you have a better understanding of what is being discussed here. You are not adding value to the discussion by posting your views after reading one or two posts. Responding to your post would amount to starting the discussion all over again. Thanks

@Joagbaje,

i think you need a job in the bank, maybe the position of vault manager 

Tonye-t:
Stop being hypocritic here,

everyone readin this knows your mind is already made up, so go ahead and do what it tells you, lest you say we advised you wrongly.

Why you dey vex?

Joagbaje:
The first thing we should ask ourselves is ; What is the definition of the GOSPEL. The Gospel means good news.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, ,

What was Jesus refering to here as the poor? was it spiritualy poor people or materially? The GK word ptochos; refers to paupers, beggars. He has brought a message to liberate them from poverty into wealth.

Na wa ooh. so Jesus went through all that wahala including sacrificing himself on the cross just to let us know we can really hit it big time. Was it really necessary? afterall God's people were receiving their blessings in the old testament just like that. Maybe man was so dumb not figure this out by himself or probably forgot, thereby necessitating the need for the Lord coming to remind us.

segyemaro:
60% is both the rich and the poor members put together. It was a trick,cos the school now belongs to the pastor's family, not to the church as promised by the general overseer when he was sourcing for the funds.

You guys should have requested for a refund.

segyemaro:
@zikkyy, okay tell about what happened in my former church here in kaduna. The general overseer announced that there is need for the church to have a school,were the members can send their kid at an affordable rate, the whole members came together to make sure this dream is realised. By the time the school finally commenced,it was only about 60% that was able to send their kids there because of the high school fees that was being collected. What i am saying in a nutshell is that those pastors/GO's always brainwashed their members when it comes to things like these because they will be the ones to benefit from it.

Oh well. If the objective was to provide education members can access, then i guess its 419. But 60% is not bad, you have to make it completely free to achieve 90-100%. Then you have to increase the church takings like offerings, tithe, first fruit (add second fruit) to fund it.

segyemaro:
@zikkyy,are you now saying that the members are fools per-taking in these establishment?

Maybe they are.

Again, it depends. Why did they contribute? was it because they wanted to identify with the project (i.e. my church owns a school)? was it because they must abide by the request of the G.O? was it because they wanted a stake (i.e. become shareholders)? or was it because they were looking forward to good and affordable education? If they were expecting affordable education for their kids, then maybe they were not thinking.

ttalks:
There is no message of material prosperity in the gospel of Christ. The only message in the gospel of Christ is the salvation of the man; the prosperity of his soul;the richness of man towards God;eternal life.

If a man gets the gospel of Christ and accepts it while in a state of physical prosperity, good for him.Let him live his life according to the gospel and continue to do things which do not violate the gospel in making a living.
If a man gets the gospel of Christ and accepts it while in a state of physical non-prosperity, good for him. The gospel has achieved its purpose in granting him eternal life. Let him live his life according to the gospel and continue to do things which do not violate the gospel in making a living. If he ends up doing things in this course which are very normal which lead to physical prosperity, he definitely will be prosperous physically.


The gospel is about man's soul getting eternal life in Christ. It is apart from physical prosperity. Physical propserity is subject to natural and earthly standards.
And it is also subject to what God's will and purpose is for a man at a particular and every point in time.

True talk

segyemaro:
Are you now saying that those that contributed towards the planting of the schools dont ave right to send their kids there?

It depends. Like you said it was a contribution/donation from church members, not a stake purchase. So they cannot be seen as shareholders in the business (if the objective is to make profit). I am not sure church members were told the proposed school/education project will be available at a discounted/low fee before they made the contribution. So they can send their kids if they can afford it.

But if you still view them as shareholders (being members of the church), then they will have to wait for dividend from profit.

segyemaro:
When i was growing up,i attended primary and secondary schools that were owned by missionaries. During my years there,we were given almost free books while the school fees were nothing at all because they were owned by churches. But these days,the institutions owned by churches are beyond the reach of the poor. Is it covenant university? Redeemers university?etc that we are talking about? even the church members that owned these institutions cant afford to send their kids there,so you can see that these pastors did not put into consideration the poor members in their church before fixing the school fees,even the rich one amongst them are also complaining. So you can see that these pastors/Go's are not FAIR at all.

I dont think the promoters had charity in mind when they were setting up these schools. IMO, i would say part of the objective will be fund raising for the church (i.e. to complement other sources of church income). If the objective of setting up the school was to make profit, i dont think the school fees is that bad. I dont believe the schools are owned by the church members either. It's either built in the name of the church (as an organisation) or probably in the name of the G.O, but not a collective ownership.

Joagbaje:
besides I never at any time say the whole ten percent belong to the priests. They use some of these offerings and tihes for sacrifices besides, How many lamb will the priest eat!? . They use the as needs arise,for morning and evening oblation and other rituals.and for the upkeep of the priest. And for your information ,I work , i make money and I give.

Pastor, are you saying tithes was used partly for sacrifice? You give the impression here that the 10% tithe rendered by the Isrealites is used by the priest for various purposes (including rituals) 'as the needs arise'. You know very well this is a lie. I think you are trying to be smart here in the way you play with words in an attempt to justify your position. This is wicked of you knowing your members will easily accept anything you quote as true and binding.

Joagbaje:
A pastor is a man that forsook everything to answer the call of God,

What if he called himself?

chukwudi44:
@poster
I think the question should have been Is it right to label crooks as pastors

Seconded.

Tonye-t:
I have given reasons why i feel in MY LITTLE OPINION that the practise is still valid,

Well, your reasons did not support your opinion. That’s why we don’t agree.

Tonye-t:
i started paying my tithe (but this time with good knowledge) and things kicked up in no time with promotions and rises here and there.

You are still owing me some washing

Tonye-t:
the question is this "DOES THAT NOW MAKE TITHING AN EVIL THING?" if you say yes then prove it!

Tithing is not evil (from the payer's perspective). Just preach it for what it is thats all (No addition/substraction).

Tonye-t:
It was even in my research i came to learn that the act and custom was not even mentioned as a Law.

Tithing is as old as the subject of covenant itself.!anyone who comes here to say tithing is a LAW is as good as the HYPOCRITE PHARISEES who would not want to enter heaven and still yet hinder others from entering.

It all depends. If you decide to hide under the umbrella of the Mosaic law to justify your position, tithing is a law. But if you say your tithing is based on the acient babylonian practice ba wahala then you can see it as a customary practice. So choose one, mosaic or babylonian? There is no middle ground here

Tonye-t:
Be careful! Over 92% of the body of Christ pay tithes today these people are not so stupi.id as not to know if the act was wrong or not.[/color]

92% ke!! where you get your info from?

Joagbaje:
You dont have a pastor and you want to make others fatherless like you.

Your pastor is your Daddy?

Joagbaje:
Souls will be saved ,Devils will be cast out, the sick will be healed,

This part i doubt. We are loosing more souls daily due to the P.I.M.Ping activities of the Prosperity Pastors

ogajim:
To say that there are[b] "blessings" attached [/b] to giving 10% to your "Church", "MOG", "Pastor", etc is HERESY and those who ask/beg for it are THIEVES/Wolves in sheep's clothing.

True talk my brother. The above is very key to the fraud called mandatory tithing for Christians. I have requested a number of times for sample of these blessings. They always void such question cos any attempt to respond will expose the sham. If you say there are blessings attached, why not disclose so some of us can start tithing as well.

ogajim:
"Prosperity" has nothing to do with MONEY, most of us make enough of that and want other kinds of prosperity which have more VALUE.

When you are desperate to make money or stay made, you are likely to lose your mind, thats why some people monetize anything.

Tonye-t:
True talk, which makes Tithing a giving beyong percentile borders abi? na u talk o because one of the ways the church and its clerics were cartered for was thru' tithing,trailing the days of Abraham AND on the second note, no one has ever said it must be in moentary terms.

Oga Tonye-t, which church are you talking about now? or do you mean temple?  tithe was not used for church maintenance. Are you saying that Abraham was also paying tithe to a temple? Where you dey buy your bible BTW? We need to examine that your bible so we can confirm if it's an approved/authentic version.

If you be pastor you go suck your congregation dry. Tried to picture you on the pulpit preaching the good false news, the image that keeps recurring in my mind is that of Count Dracula. Am serious.