maclatunji:

1. intransitive verb yield: to accept somebody
else's authority or will.

zayhal: You guys are still on this?

maclatunji: ^Nope, I made the distinction between concession and submission. He acknowledges her valid points and even defers some decisions to her but a man is not to submit to his wife, talkless of her will.

It is not in the design of Islam's definition of a husband to submit to the wife. Semantics won't get you out of this one. It is a divine decree, we all must accept it.

maclatunji:
The young lady is looking for a loophole that will prove that a man has to submit to his wife in much the same way as the wife is instructed to submit to her husband in Islam.
I am helping her to accept the futility of that endeavour by following her all the way.

maclatunji: ^LOL, I am not repulsed at all by the idea. But it really isn't about me. It is about what God says. A muslim is not allowed to water-down God's injunctions which is essentially what you are trying to do.

Let me break it down for you. In matters of the family whether it be man and wife alone or in addition to children. Any decision of the wife that prevails over the family will only be without sin if the man approves, that will never be tagged 'submission' in the context of Islam.

No one can say the same about the wife within the context of Islam. A man may take many decisions without his wife's approval and would not have sinned.

maclatunji: When I say 'defer' this is what I mean:
To delegate to another <he could defer his
job to no one — J. A. Michener>

Don't play with words with me my dear.

fellis: Defer has different meanings. How was I to know that this is what you meant? Besides, this your definition has nothing to do with choosing one decision or opinion is chosen over another. It only talks about delegating a task to another person, it doesn't talk about giving precedence to another person's choices. It is rather unsuitable for describing what you had in mind.
Let this be the last time you would patronise me on this thread.

maclatunji:
No more debate again. Your feelings are getting unnecessarily hurt. That is not my intention. Sorry for any offense caused.
Ma Salam.

maclatunji: ^The fact that a husband explains his decisions to his wife does not mean she will accept or approve. Her disapproval does not mean he has sinned.

The easiest example is marrying a second wife, most women disapprove even after explanations. Are you saying the man has sinned if she does not approve? That would be ludicrous.

Kindness to a wife does not translate to a wife's hapiness.

A man may decide to buy an X5 for his wife and she would still be unhappy insisting she wants a Range Rover Sport.

You have over the past 2 days tried to elevate things that are highly recommended as compulsory. Things like consultation, delegation of authority are highly recommended not compulsory for the husband.
If you insist they are, bring Islamic proof(s).

maclatunji:
You have over the past 2 days tried to elevate things that are highly recommended as compulsory. Things like consultation, delegation of authority are highly recommended not compulsory for the husband.

fellis: I am so glad you came back.
The type of scenario you described above is not what I am talking about. Wives are also free to spend their personal money in whatever halal way they please without it being a sin.

Can you bring hadith or Qur'anic verses to show that it is not compulsory for husbands to consult their wives before taking major decisions in the marriage?
You didn't address the question I asked about what it is tagged in Islam when a husband accepts his wife's will over his. Please answer that as well.

maclatunji:
I am debating with someone that doesn't understand marriage well.

My friend, a married man does not have 'personal money'. His family have a great part of his money. It is after he has reasonably met their needs that he may think of himself. Or what do you think we mean we say men are responsible for the family?

A man may not accept his wife's will over his. His will may only be altered by her influence. Two different things, you are still playing with words.

In Yoruba, the word for 'will' is 'Ase'. Ase is synonymous with command. A wife may not command her husband but the husband may and almost inevitably does in every marriage.
I will entertain points based on Islamic knowledge with you but not wordplay. The words 'will', 'command', 'authority' are all perogatives of the husband in Islam.

zayhal: @fellis
There's no verse in the quran that says it is compulsory for a man to consult with his wife before taking any major decision in the home.

Let me also point out to you that a woman has to seek the consent of her husband before spending her own money but the reverse isn't the case.
You two, Mac and Fellis have been painting imaginary scenarios

snubish: there can be consultations, arguments, concessions and what have you, but what is most appropriate in Islam is that man ALLAH approves of the final decision. like the referee in sport or the judge in court..

fellis: And you are the one that understands marriage not me. You are the champion bank of knowledge on matters regarding marriage. Is you that carry the trophy. You, the same person that said a husband can never accept his wife's will over his own, your understanding of marriage is exceptionally mind blowing.


The money a man earns in the marriage is for him and his family.
The money he keeps for his personal spending is his personal money. Fine, Islam advocates his putting the needs of the family before his own but that does not mean he does not have any personal cut in his earnings.
Wow mac, you really understand marriage very well.

mehn, you really do not want to accept that men should accept their wives' will when it is better for the marriage. Your unwillingness to admit it is amusing.
Please can you tell me the difference between accepting her will and altering his decision because of her influence?
I really have no intention of playing with words sorry if that what how my posts made it look like.

You are using Yoruba to interprete the Qur'an in order to buttress your points yet you accuse me of playing with words
In English, 'will' is not synonymous with 'command'. We are conversing in English not Yoruba so keep Yoruba interpretations out of this discussion.
Definition of 'will' in English means the way somebody wants things to be done. I posted that definition before. How can 'will' be something that applies to only the husband?

fellis:
I agree.

maclatunji:
You say I don't want to accept your idea. I would have since (at least to stop you from looking for this elusive loophole you are seeking for). However, doing that would mean seeking to overturn the decree of God which is a grave sin.

Context matters a lot in language. You cannot successfully use 'submission' in the context of a husband relating to his wife in Islam.
You know what? Bring Islamic evidence that says husband should submit to his wife and we can look at it together.

maclatunji:

A man does not have personal money my dear until his family is catered for. It is the wife that does under Islamic teachings. A man may not eat whilst his wife has nothing to eat. A wife may eat whilst her husband is hungry- we can say she is selfish but sinful because of that? No.

The difference is simple, a President may adopt his minister's plan. However, once the President adopts that plan, it becomes the President's plan not the minister's. Do you think it was GEJ that initiated cassava bread? It was other people but it has now become GEJ's plan and we don't talk about them anymore.

It works in a similar way with husband and wife. Any submissive wife will attest to it.

You say I don't want to accept your idea. I would have since (at least to stop you from looking for this elusive loophole you are seeking for). However, doing that would mean seeking to overturn the decree of God which is a grave sin.

Context matters a lot in language. You cannot successfully use 'submission' in the context of a husband relating to his wife in Islam.

You know what? Bring Islamic evidence that says husband should submit to his wife and we can look at it together.

maclatunji: ^You are just a stubborn young lady. You know you have no basis for your assertions. You are just hoping to get more than is your fair share. Allah has given the man the go ahead- so don't bother.

bukatyne: What is more than her fair share? That she wants to be treated with love from a man who claims to love her?

@Mac and Fellis: You two should quit going back and forth. You and Fellis are not getting married (I am not so certain ) and how you decide to run your families is your private businesses. Just ensure that you marry someone with similar views and you don't fake who you are during courtship. There is a man and woman for every one.

God Bless.