shdemidemi:
The bible says He had been there from the beginning before the earth.

Bidam: Exactly which also agrees with the synopsis of John 1:1. The problem with these guys is they hardly study. They just swallow anything they see in Awake magazines and come here to argue for arguing sake. Don't you see that they quote KJV whenever it suits them as per this firstborn issue, But when KJV says " God was made manifest in the flesh" they immediately jump to the NIV.

Bidam: Exactly which also agrees with the synopsis of John 1:1. The problem with these guys is they hardly study. They just swallow anything they see in Awake magazines and come here to argue for arguing sake. Don't you see that they quote KJV whenever it suits them as per this firstborn issue, But when KJV says " God was made manifest in the flesh" they immediately jump to the NIV.

frosbel:

Mate you are the guys who have dribbled yourselves into a corner and scored no goals whatsoever , you seem to have totally forgotten where you positioned your goal post because it keeps moving.

You cannot honestly tell us what firstborn means, instead you try to twist it's meaning from the original languages into some incomprehensible theological nonsense , the Hebrew and Greek words used to describe this term totally debunk your lies and it's quite fraudulent to keep holding onto an untenable position.

If Jesus is firstborn , then he has a beginning, if he was not firstborn like Yahweh, then he has not beginning.

In a bid to pridefully remain in a position of ignorance you are unwittingly confusing the hell out of believers , Muslims ,atheists and almost anyone who really cares about this subject.

frosbel:

You are a MAN , stop being ruled by sentiments and emotion, study scriptures that can make you wise to the truth.

I am not claiming infallibility , what I want is proof, so far all you have done is accuse, warn, ridicule and even mock, these are not traits of a berean.

If Jesus is firstborn :

1. He was born as a MAN
2. He had a father who is GOD
3. He had a mother who is Mary


What you are forcing on people to accept is actually a pagan concept called incarnation where a spirit being manifests in the flesh by entering that body and taking control of it's faculties, sensory organs etc.

Reason Pal.

ijawkid:

Ona dey see the nonsense wey this man dey write??..........

Did Christ know when the end would come or did he LIE when he said he didn't know but only the Father??..........

Why can't you guys believe Christ??...........

Why.........

Like I said the one GOD I know is the Father and it is obvious that he is.........

shdemidemi:

So who is the father in that context?

1 John 5:7-8

King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Bidam: Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.” Why? Because the Son of God is God who can receive worship, He is God in the flesh.
This is your interpretation. Jesus never said "I am God in the flesh" You are the one saying that.
Matthew 12:50 "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."


Jesus said, “that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him” (John 5:23) We this example all through the Scripture.
Yes, but why don't you quote: John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."
John 12:49-50 "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

What else do you need? The pastors cannot get around this one. So they have to invent the trinity.


Matthew 15:25: “Then she worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.”

“When Jesus walked on the water and made the wind and waves cease, they worshipped Him, saying, truly thou art the Son of God.” (Matthew 14:33). Notice the equating of being the Son of God elicits their worship

Did not also "Peter walk on water? Is Peter the Father?
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

If they said Jesus is the son of God, why are you defending him being God?
I don't understand?

Bidam: I am not interested in scoring goals but in speaking the truth concerning God's word. You are yet to show us a single scripture were Jesus was created separate from the Father, instead you fraudulently use firstborn over all creation and build a doctrine out of it. That's the highest form of treachery and heresy one can descend to in the body of Christ. Do you know that in that colossians 1:15-20 Paul actually magnified Christ to the point of almost calling him God? Take your time to read frosbel and stop building "castles in the air".Jesus by nature, being God is equal to God (John 1:1,14, John 5:23, John 14:1) but positionally, during His earthly time as a man, His Father was certainly “greater” than He.

shdemidemi:
So who tells you, we are not one in Christ right now?

shdemidemi:
You can never be used by God without afflictions and problems, therefore, no one had a smooth journey walking with God all through the scriptures. We have all these stories in the bible to know the different dimensions of God's power. The journey of Israel could have been for 40 days, they had to go round cycles for 40 years for them to know and appreciate God. Till this present day, you can separate them from the rest of the world in the way they hold the Torah.
The story of Christ like your story was known before the start of the world. Everything that happens/happened is for our learning and edification.

You talk so shallow,
Acts 2:22-23a

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles, and wonders and signs, which God did by him (Jesus) in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23. Him, (Jesus of Nazareth) being delivered by the determinate counsel…"

What is a counsel?

Ain't you saved by the gospel of this same Christ?

frosbel: ^^

You hit the nail on the head Bro.

Boomark:

I know shdemidemi worst fear. whenever you quote where they put the Father and jesus together he catches cold. something like this:
Acts 3:13

New International Version (NIV)

13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

When you ask him "who is God here"? to say it is the Father will be hard for him.

shdemidemi:

I am sure we both understand He was not a servant but He humbled himself as such for us. Referring to Christ as the son of God does not mean an offspring of God but He is the son as part of the Godhead.

frosbel:

keep running in circles.

Boomark:

I know shdemidemi worst fear. whenever you quote where they put the Father and jesus together he catches cold. something like this:
Acts 3:13

New International Version (NIV)

13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

When you ask him "who is God here"? to say it is the Father will be hard for him.

Bidam: Even if Jesus was a servant then. Can a servant not be like His MASTER?

shdemidemi:

I am sure we both understand He was not a servant but He humbled himself as such for us. Referring to Christ as the son of God does not mean an offspring of God but He is the son as part of the Godhead.

frosbel:

accept it , let not pride make you hang on to a pagan doctrine, the simple truth of the gospel is :

John 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God sent his SON , GOD did not send GOD , he sent his SON.

ijawkid:

Read well......the apostles still called Jesus Gods servant well after his ascension......

ijawkid:

Read well......the apostles still called Jesus Gods servant well after his ascension......

Bidam: can a servant not be like his master? stop dodging the question.

truthislight:

A servant can be like his master but not the master.

Note. "be like", not, "is the master".

Peace.

Bidam: ok..we know that God created us in His image and likeness. we also know according to the bible that Jesus came o earth as a man. The question now is who is Jesus? A Man, an angel, a spirit, a god?? who actually is this Jesus to you people?

From_Guiriga:

Jesus is the begotten/unique/only one son of the Father. God is spirit. If Jesus is in the form of God, I take it he is also spirit.
That is my understanding.I cannot speak for anyone else.

ijawkid:

Nobody is part of any Godhead......I don't even know what you think God head is......

And as we see from ask Jesus was already in heaven when peter said those words......

God hath ressurected his holy servant......

Now may I ask you....

Why are the angels and adam called sons of God??.....

On what basis are they called Sons of God....

shdemidemi:

I am sure we both understand He was not a servant but He humbled himself as such for us. Referring to Christ as the son of God does not mean an offspring of God but He is the son as part of the Godhead.

Bidam: Even if Jesus was a servant then. Can a servant not be like His MASTER?

From_Guiriga:

Jesus is the begotten/unique/only one son of the Father. God is spirit. If Jesus is in the form of God, I take it he is also spirit.
That is my understanding.I cannot speak for anyone else.

truthislight:

You spoke for me also there ^.