It does not matter what I have said in the past, healed, faulty kit, temporary healing etc.

I am here today the 2nd day of October 2014 to tell the truth that I WAS NEVER HEALED.

Gombs, If I ever felt/convinced that there was healing in CE,that I was healed and may be lost it, I WOULD HAVE FLOWN BACK TO THE HEALING SCHOOL to get it back, a flight to SA is a very small fraction of my current salary

...but not after I have witnessed several people who attended the healing school before and after me die of the same ailments!!

Gombs:

Sir, Please she hasn't, well... before that, let me give a prelude to the answer.

John 5:14
But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, "Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.


1. A man got healed
2. Jesus said the above to him

I want to ask, is it then possible from the above, that one can lose a healing miracle? From the above, why is it possible?

Gombs:

Was this what I wrote or what you saw I wrote?



That's what cops do, a change in tone, and especially stories gives one up. You've told your stories in different forms, and if asked in another 4 years time, you'd still change stand. I did not bother reply DB (your counsellor) because he only gave reasons why your tone should change, and why you are where you are now, regretting-playing the public sympathybcard again, if this were a court room, his post is what we'd call slam dunk in basket ball for the persecution counsel.

I'm not saying you are a coward, I actually admire your ability to change stories, you think you've answered all my questions? Ok, let's leave that for future viewers to decide. Now, one final question session ma'am.

Are you of the opinion that the healing school is a scam base? If yes, like you preseumed, would you take an oath, between you and God who judges all and say confidently, without an iota of doubt, that nothing spiritual and healing takes place there?

I await your answer, which I hope won't be vague as the rest.

Kenyan28: Were present to take you the other way. If you can fly to SA, why didn't you then?




I DIDNT FLY COZ THERE IS NO HEALING IN HE. In my Whatsapp chat with your mate @Joag, he wanted me to come to Nigeria for him to pray for me. I told him not unless he fully sponsors the trip, I cant waste my money on something that I know will never yield. I will visit Nija someday to explore that part of West Africa though.

SirJohn: @Gombs,
please tell the world at what point you think Kenyan28 lost her healing...

Gombs:

Granny, you haven't answered from my post whether it was possible to loose one's healing as Jesus pointed out. An honest answer would set my answer to your question in motion.

Now, it's you and I discussing, I'd be glad to discuss with you too. I'm done with Kenyan, now I've time for you. Thanks alot for being patient all through my interview with Kenyan, you are indeed a gentle man.

WinsomeX: Gombs,

This matter is not complex at all. If you know anything about human idiosyncrasy, you will understand that the Kenyan has her own. The questions you are asking her quite naturally are irritating because she had answered them already on this thread and if you find this thread too long to read to find them, you can browse through mine that I offered as a summary.

Now let me attempt to paint the scenario for you based on her account here.

1. A lady, Kenyan, is down with HIV for 8years. Young, impressionable lady in the Uni. She meets a CE pastor who promises her Pastor Chris can heal her. She does her homework in preparation for the trip to SA. She encounters SirJohn thread in her search.

2. It makes perfect sense to understand her reaction to a SirJohn, who obviously, in her view, was trying to cast doubt in her mind on a HS that is for her going to be a life saver. According to WOF, your faith is your healing. All her noise earlier on saying "I'm healed", etc, Where all faith jargon to possess or retain her healing. But something else was going on in the background.

3. In reality, the Kenyan had been on some herb/drugs. Those drugs had ensured her viral load where undetectable, while she was symptom free. She testified to the fact that that that was not the first time she will be symptom free. Apparently when she tested before the HS, her viral load were not detectable and she tested negative. The Pastors there, wishing to give Chris the glory, urges her to tell a lie.

4. After the whole razzmatazz, she returns to this thread to inform everyone she was healed. She needed not tell the "whole" story because she obviously was still enchanted by Chris and did not want to paint him in a bad light.

5. At that point, KunleOshob, SirJohn and others were urging her to go for a confirmatory test. She refused but stuck with the negative reading after the HS.

6. THEN the moment of truth arrived. This lady had presumed she was healed all along and had stopped using her herbs. Those herbs, not Chris healing, where responsible for her low viral load and negative result. She had her baby and the baby tested positive while she did also. Her world fall apart.

7. She returns to this thread and we can see from her comment her anguish (She even begins to delete her initial posts in regret). The brethren she had been insulting where the ones comforting her while Jo' was mouthing faith gibberish. SirJohn obtains a private counsel with her and manages to get her back on her drugs. She is fine now and her baby is doing great.

8. Quite naturally, she had nothing good to say about CE. She even begins to reveal that other nationals who sought healing at the HS were all dead. They were never healed.

From the aforementioned, what is so difficult to understand about the story? Why will a completely unknown Kenyan wish to discredit Pastor Chris?

I took up this story because it painted perfectly the nature of God's patience. It took two solid years of this thread for the Kenyan story to return to buttress SirJohn OP claims.

So Gombs, why all these questions? Do you have doubts too??

Gombs:

Sir, Please she hasn't, well... before that, let me give a prelude to the answer.

John 5:14
But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, "Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.


1. A man got healed
2. Jesus said the above to him

I want to ask, is it then possible from the above, that one can lose a healing miracle? From the above, why is it possible?

SirJohn:

Thanks for the compliment, now its your turn to be a gentleman
I asked you a question, answer my question first then I'll answer yours. Its okay if you don't have the answer to the question, just get off your high horse and simply say "I don't know" period

Kenyan28:




How many more people do want to interview ie who attended the HS? I have quite a number who are still managing the same conditions that took them to the HS.

vooks: @Kenyan28,
There are standard excuse for no healing
1. The miracle seeker never had 'enough' faith to command healing virtue from the hem of Jesus garment
2. The miracle seeker is a sinner

Of course you were 'confessing' healing as instructed to at the healing School despite anything suggesting that you were not healed. You were probably discouraged from performing further HIV tests since further tests are 'lack of faith'
When a further HIV test (on your baby) became inevitable, you discovered you still had the virus
That your husband turned negative proves that he never reinfected you with the virus after your supposed 'healing'

Don't put it beyond Christ Embassy hooligans to claim that you got reinfected after your 'healing'

Kenyan28:

You couldnt be more right. And to add more, when I discovered that I still had the virus, they(CE) called it a "counter attack" its amazing they have ready made names for all situations . "Counter attack" is what doctors blatantly call "denial"

vooks: There is another mbaemeka guy
Says that he will never fall sick, that Just as Christ took away our sins yet we still fall into occasional sin, a Christian may fall sick. Challenged since death still persists despite Christ sacrifice, he insists that death is an 'enemy' and that Jesus has keys of death and hades so he will seek mbaemeka's consent before taking him home. So, if you will never be sick yet you can get sick, you are saying nothing. You have absolutely NOTHING on a cussing atheist when it comes to health or prosperity. Those things are just dangled at gullible Christians to rip them off

Fact of the matter is in this fallen world, Christians will succumb to poverty,disease and death just as the next pagan

Please take your time and read this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents
Very rich

ubarikiwe dada

Kenyan28:

Nimepokea baraka tele, asante ndugu.

PastorKun:

Small time joagbaje would come here and start bragging he flew to Tanzania to pray for an ebola victim at his own cost without collecting a kobo from the victim.

@Joagbaje
This is a good opportunity to demonstrate your benevolence, either travel to Kenya to prayer for her or sponsor her trip to Nigeria for the healing.

SirJohn:

Thanks for the compliment, now its your turn to be a gentleman
I asked you a question, answer my question first then I'll answer yours. Its okay if you don't have the answer to the question, just get off your high horse and simply say "I don't know" period

John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.Verse 14. - After these things (see ver. 1). Westcott thinks that a looser connection between the foregoing and subsequent events is denoted by μετὰ ταῦτα than by the expression μετὰ τοῦτο.. Consequently, the persecution referred to in the remainder of the chapter may have occurred several days after the foregoing conversation. 

Jesus found him in the temple. Some have inferred from this, the recognition by the healed man of the hand of God in his cure, and his desire to express his gratitude in the house of God by some appropriate conduct or service; and, granting this explanation, much charm is observable in the tact that Jesus found him. and found him there. The Lord's habit of visiting the temple, and the penetrating glance which he casts over all the frequenters of his Father's house might then fairly be deduced from the passage; but the motive of the man is quite conjectural.

From the words of Jesus one might as reasonably suppose that the man was treading at the time on dangerous moral ground, making some kind of gain from his notoriety. The healing was, at least, imperfect until the man had learned its spiritual significance. Every gift of God is doubled in value when its source is recognized. God's signature on his own mercies gives them their true meaning. Christ found the healed man in the precincts of the temple, whether his motive was pure or mixed in going thither. 

And he said unto him, Beheld, thou art made whole (hast become sound and healthy throughout thy physical system; cf. for the form of this description of his case, the query, ver. 6): no longer continue to sin. The form of the sentence points to something special and persistent in this man's habits, rather than to the general corruption of human nature.

Christ's penetrating glance discovered all the hidden misery and bleeding wound and putrefying sore of the man's soul. Apart from the obliteration of the consequences of his bad life, and without a clean and free condition of things, the future would have proved hopeless, and deliverance from the yoke of fear and concupiscence impossible; but now this new chance is given. He was made whole, born again physically. As Naaman's flesh became like that of a little child, so this man - once bent, crippled, distorted by his self-indulgence, and now made whole - is to "sin no longer."

It would not be reasonable to conclude from this that Christ's doctrine, like that of Job's friends, involved the indissoluble connection of sin with sickness, or made the amount of pain in any case the criterion of individual sin. Our Lord repudiates this position in John 9:3 and in Luke 13:1-5; but special calamities have unquestionably followed wrong doing, and can, in many instances, be referred to obvious transgressions, to specific acts, or inveterate habits.

The man's own conscience would respond to the charge. Jesus added: Lest a worse thing befall thee. There is, then, something worse than thirty-eight years of apparently hopeless wretchedness! Jesus said, even as reported by the apostle of love, the most terrible things that ever fell from human lips. The "sin no longer" makes it seem as though man's will could accomplish much (cf. Isaiah 1:16, "Cease," etc.), and as though all the future of our life were, so far as human responsibility goes, dependent upon ourselves. We are to act as if it were.

Let it be noticed that he who said, "Sin no more," said, "Rise up, take thy bed, and walk." Three things, which appeared utterly beyond the power of the impotent man, were, nevertheless, done by him through the grace of Christ, which he then and there appropriated.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/john/5.htm

PastorKun:

Small time joagbaje would come here and start bragging he flew to Tanzania to pray for an ebola victim at his own cost without collecting a kobo from the victim.

@Joagbaje
This is a good opportunity to demonstrate your benevolence, either travel to Kenya to prayer for her or sponsor her trip to Nigeria for the healing.

vooks: Gombs,
Jesus said something WORSE not the SAME illness will come back.
This is an extremely dumb interpretation to justify 'lost healings'

WinsomeX: Gombs, please answer my questions too o.

vooks: Gombs,
Jesus said something WORSE not the SAME illness will come back.
This is an extremely dumb interpretation to justify 'lost healings'

Joagbaje:

If I collect money you will complain, if I don't , you will complain



Why don't you sponsor her ? Why should I waste money on someone who doesn't believe . I preach the gospel , and signs and wonders accompany it . I don't need to prove anything to a mocker . I presented an HIV case that was healed here . I dare all of you to investigate it . Go to the federal medical centre . And expose my lie . I somehow think you guys knows I'm right but pride will not allow you to admit . If not somebody should have investigated this testimony .

Commentary:

From the words of Jesus one might as reasonably
suppose that the man was treading at the time
on dangerous moral ground, making some kind of
gain from his notoriety. The healing was, at least,
imperfect until the man had learned its spiritual
significance. Every gift of God is doubled in value
when its source is recognized. God's signature on
his own mercies gives them their true meaning .
Christ found the healed man in the precincts of
the temple, whether his motive was pure or mixed
in going thither.

Commentary:

The man's own conscience would respond to the
charge. Jesus added: Lest a worse thing befall
thee. There is, then, something worse than thirty-
eight years of apparently hopeless wretchedness!

WinsomeX: Gombs, Where in that whole commentary did the author say or imply "relapse".

Granted they said that the healing was imperfect as you outlined in blue:




But this imperfect must be seen in the light of further explanation as the one below:




"Imperfect" must therefore be seen as the possibility of something worse happening and not a relapse.

Or else the author is claiming, Christ, and God, cannot carry out a perfect miracle or are imperfect. If this is the opinion of the author, we have all the right to discard the whole commentary as another opinion of fallible men.

The healing was, at least, imperfect [size=25pt]until [/size]the man had learned its spiritual significance. Every gift of God is doubled in value when its source is recognized. God's signature on his own mercies gives them their true meaning.

SirJohn:

Hi Bobokanis,
Your reply to my story is no surprise at all. you have not only responded like a typical CE member but you have failed to react to the main issue. I'm glad you mentioned in your reply that I'm right to some extent, you also did not refute the wheelchair and stretcher scam so I guess you accept that I am right. My intention by the time I'm through with this topic is to reveal the whole truth. do you explain the fact that someone well able to stand and walk is placed in a wheelchair or stretcher some of which does not even belong to them; and then the 'man of God' is made to look like an anointed faith healer which he is not by getting them to stand on their feet and walk. What has my feelings got to do with this, please tell me.

No matter what the intention might be, the bottom line still remains that millions of people watching these phoney miracles end up thinking that these people were either crippled or bedridden which is completely false. I don't know if you visited the link I attached to my earlier post; I was with those folks for two weeks and I even spoke with one of the three. some of the reports about them are either completely false or exaggerated.

Speaking about your friends daughter, I do not deny the fact that people may experience changes in their physical conditions during or after visiting the healing school; it is probably the same reasons for which people get 'healed' after visiting the shrine of 'Our lady of Lourdes' in france. I intend to discuss healings in my next post, I'm sure it will clear up some things here.
Stay tuned!!!

Gombs:

wait your turn buddy! your bianess is resounding though. Now it is relapse shey? no longer loss of healing. no wonder you folks don't want to answer whether it is possible to loose one's healing. see how they are clinging to "Jesus said something worse than, He did not mean relapse/same illness".

buncha funny fellas, as for the above, point where the author remotely suggested that. Compare what you said with what the author wrote

that is why they teach folks in the healing school...the spiritual significance of their healing and retaining it because the devil would come lay claim of it..

WinsomeX: If the author of that commentary means what you want us to believe, then you and your commentator are in error. And you can be because you are human and fallible.

The contention until you brought up the commentary on John 5 was whether a healing can be lost. You provided that scripture and the commentary to prove your point that healing can be lost or in other words, there can be a relapse of the illness. My point, along with others, is that John 5 where Jesus said something worse does not mean a loss of healing or a relapse. Something worse means some other worse thing, other than that illness, can befall the individual.

This points must be properly thrashed out because you are looking for a lame excuse for why Chris failed to heal the Kenyan. This was the same idiotic excuse Joagbaje brought forth when she first came saying she was not healed. Now, even if for a second we accept that the Kenyan lost her healing to sin; what about all the others, many of whom are dead now? They also returned to their sins?

You guys are pathetic!

Gombs: Fellas gotta go now, reports for the 3rd quarter aint gonna prepare themselves, I'd need 2hours break, further questions and opinions can be dropped here. Thanks, would attend to them whenever I'm back.

Bros Candour, I see you! Good morning, I hope you and fam folks are well?

vooks: Would you be kind enough to share with me the relevant thread where @Joagbaje prayed for and healed an Ebola victim in Tanzania?
There is nothing like Ebola in Tanzania