OkaiCorne:


Asking if the Eternal Creator is physical is like asking a Human being to become an ant, just to prove its existence to ants.

By the way, I'm obsessed with the existence of the Eternal Creator as much as you are obsessed about it's non existence.

Firstly, I am not obsessed with its non-existence because I am certain of that already.
Secondly, for your eternal creator to be physical doesn't make him an ant, it will make him real. That's what reality is all about. We are talking about the existence of the unseen, using the analogy of the seen with the unseen is not logical. Let's be logical abeg.
Thirdly, answer my questions and let's move on. The planes of existence are not real nor scientific. Answer my questions so I can call your bluff.

What are the choices our ancestors made that are responsible for the natural disasters or the plain of the earth to shift?

OkaiCorne:


Welcome to the knowledge sharing session sir.

We are here to enlighten ourselves and not to argue fruitlessly.

I have learnt two things from Akin1212 in the course of our discussion.

He has raised thought provoking questions that only a mystic can answer. How many do agree that the He created the tree of 'good and evil' from the beginning? It is a law that guides everything on earth- electricity, day n night, etc

Babacele:
He has raised thought provoking questions that only a mystic can answer. How many do agree that the He created the tree of 'good and evil' from the beginning? It is a law that guides everything on earth- electricity, day n night, etc

It seems you guys have the same set of beliefs, can you help him answer the questions asked?

He said the planes of existence are responsible for the natural disasters we see around.
I then asked, who created these planes?
He answered again and said the eternal creator. And added that our ancestors have made choices that disrupted the plane of existence of earth
I then asked again, what are these choices?
Since then he has been dribbling me. Should I call it a day or you'll help him out?

Akin1212:


It seems you guys have the same set of beliefs, can you help him answer the questions asked?

He said the planes of existence are responsible for the natural disasters we see around.
I then asked, who created these planes?
He answered again and said the eternal creator. And added that our ancestors have made choices that disrupted the plane of existence of earth
I then asked again, what are these choices?
Since then he has been dribbling me. Should I call it a day or you'll help him out?

Nobody is Dribbling you, calm down. I'm driving right now. I'll be back shortly.

Akin1212:


Firstly, I am not obsessed with its non-existence because I am certain of that already.
Secondly, for your eternal creator to be physical doesn't make him an ant, it will make him real. That's what reality is all about. We are talking about the existence of the unseen, using the analogy of the seen with the unseen is not logical. Let's be logical abeg.
Thirdly, answer my questions and let's move on. The planes of existence are not real nor scientific. Answer my questions so I can call your bluff.

What are the choices our ancestors made that are responsible for the natural disasters or the plain of the earth to shift?

You just shot yourself in the foot by saying Planes of existence is not scientific. Do you really know this science you're talking about? Or just the part of science that suits your atheistic mindset?

OkaiCorne:


You just shot yourself in the foot by saying Planes of existence is not scientific. Do you really know this science you're talking about? Or just the part of science that suits your atheistic mindset?

Don't assume, just explain scientifically the planes of existence and drop your references.

And I maintain that any plane of existence written anywhere is part of esoteric cosmology which is not scientific at all in any form. The concept may be found in religious and esoteric teachings. On the other hand, you're the one who doesn't know what the planes of existence are. I have decided not to say anything about it and let you talk but you have refused.
Do you know that one of the claimed planes is a spiritual plane? How can science stoop so low to say there is a spiritual plane? Before you say something, please double check, I don't want to see you as someone who is incompetent. I am still shooting at you, not my foot.

Quote me wrong, I'm not running anywhere.

Akin1212:


I will suggest you read Job 1:6 very well. Job was probably enjoying himself before the deal between God and Satan took place behind him. He didn't even consented. God had to make Job go through hell to prove a point to Satan, right? It still doesn't add up bro.

Am not sure I see any of my comment the bold-faced is replying.

What doesn't add up exactly? That God cannot allow Satan to test His servant?

JMAN05:


Am not sure I see any of my comment the bold-faced is replying.

What doesn't add up exactly? That God cannot allow Satan to test His servant?

What was the testing for exactly? God wasn't sure Job was faithful or he cared so much about what Satan thinks and wanted to prove him wrong or he didn't see the future that Job would be faithful hence no need for the suffering or what?

God allowed his servant to suffer so he could show off to Satan. That's awesome. I thought God could see the end from the beginning. He knew Job would remain faithful, why let him suffer?

You people need to learn to see things from the reality point of view. All these pieces of evidence are proofs that God does not exist.

Akin1212:


Don't assume, just explain scientifically the planes of existence and drop your references.

And I maintain that any plane of existence written anywhere is part of esoteric cosmology which is not scientific at all in any form. The concept may be found in religious and esoteric teachings. On the other hand, you're the one who doesn't know what the planes of existence are. I have decided not to say anything about it and let you talk but you have refused.
Do you know that one of the claimed planes is a spiritual plane? How can science stoop so low to say there is a spiritual plane? Before you say something, please double check, I don't want to see you as someone who is incompetent. I am still shooting at you, not my foot.

Quote me wrong, I'm not running anywhere.

Before we get back to the plane of existence stuff. I want to bring you atheists attention to something:

It is not possible to solve Furthermaths without a basic knowledge of Arithmetics.

I have given you atheists countless examples at the Arithmetic level on the existence of a Creator.

1) The Orphan analogy
2) The Pyramid analogy
3) The Orchestra/Choir-master analogy
4) The Ant-Human analogy
5) The Circle theory
6) How every story must have a starting point.
7) The source of your physical existence; and countless other examples.

If everything at the arithmetic level points to the fact there is a starting point, why can't the same pattern apply at the Furthermaths level?

Or is it because what lies at the Furthermaths level is beyond what a combination of your 5 senses cannot decipher? And because it is beyond your understanding and logic therefore, it does not exist?

Unless you atheists are saying the knowledge of basic Arithmetics is irrelevant to understanding Maths and FurtherMaths.

Are atheists doomed to be stuck on a level of knowledge limited to their five senses alone? If so, I'd rather be an idol worshiper than an Atheist, because it seems to me the mind of an Atheist is as closed as a granite rock.

I recall you said ants understand human beings in their own way, but my question is...the way ants understand humans and the way a human understands itself, between the ant and the Human...who has a more accurate understanding?


Just for the records Akin1212, digest what I just quoted now and tell me how to solve maths and Furthermaths without knowledge of Arithmetics. Bon-nuit

OkaiCorne:


Before we get back to the plane of existence stuff. I want to bring you atheists attention to something:

It is not possible to solve Furthermaths without a basic knowledge of Arithmetics.

I have given you atheists countless examples at the Arithmetic level on the existence of a Creator.

1) The Orphan analogy
2) The Pyramid analogy
3) The Orchestra/Choir-master analogy
4) The Ant-Human analogy
5) The Circle theory
6) How every story must have a starting point.
7) The source of your physical existence; and countless other examples.

If everything at the arithmetic level points to the fact there is a starting point, why can't the same pattern apply at the Furthermaths level?

Or is it because what lies at the Furthermaths level is beyond what a combination of your 5 senses cannot decipher? And because it is beyond your understanding and logic therefore, it does not exist?

Unless you atheists are saying the knowledge of basic Arithmetics is irrelevant to understanding Maths and FurtherMaths.

Are atheists doomed to be stuck on a level of knowledge limited to their five senses alone? If so, I'd rather be an idol worshiper than an Atheist, because it seems to me the mind of an Atheist is as closed as a granite rock.

I recall you said ants understand human beings in their own way, but my question is...the way ants understand humans and the way a human understands itself, between the ant and the Human...who has a more accurate understanding?

We are done with all these. Tell us who created the planes of existence, what our ancestors did to halt the plane of existence of the earth.

Akin1212:


Don't assume, just explain scientifically the planes of existence and drop your references.

And I maintain that any plane of existence written anywhere is part of esoteric cosmology which is not scientific at all in any form. The concept may be found in religious and esoteric teachings. On the other hand, you're the one who doesn't know what the planes of existence are. I have decided not to say anything about it and let you talk but you have refused.
Do you know that one of the claimed planes is a spiritual plane? How can science stoop so low to say there is a spiritual plane? Before you say something, please double check, I don't want to see you as someone who is incompetent. I am still shooting at you, not my foot.

Quote me wrong, I'm not running anywhere.

Here is one of the foremost Scientific atheists - Stephen Hawking; views on the possibility of parallel planes of existence... enjoy the link below;

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/600893/Professor-Stephen-Hawking-black-holes-could-be-portals-to-a-PARALLEL-UNIVERSE

I have left the bus stop the slow moving train of science is just about getting to...When science eventually confirms it, we can start talking.

Akin1212:


We are done with all these. Tell us who created the planes of existence, what our ancestors did to halt the plane of existence of the earth.

Right before I move on, why are you shying away from what you just quoted?

How can you solve Furthermaths without knowledge of basic arithmetics?

Akin1212:


We are done with all these. Tell us who created the planes of existence, what our ancestors did to halt the plane of existence of the earth.

I can't teach you show you how maths works if you don't understand arithmetics...before I answer your question on planes of existence...you need to understand how the basic arithmetic examples fits into the bigger furthermaths picture...

If not, you'll get stuck at your current level of reasoning.

Think carefully about your next post, I need to get some sleep ahead of a crazy Monday...

OkaiCorne:


I can't teach you show you how maths works if you don't understand arithmetics...before I answer your question on planes of existence...you need to understand how the basic arithmetic examples fits into the bigger furthermaths picture...

If not, you'll get stuck at your current level of reasoning.

Think carefully about your next post, I need to get some sleep ahead of a crazy Monday...

Your tactics are to delay by bringing up points where you have been dusted. I am not going to forget what I will say on the Plane of existence issue no matter how long it takes you to answer it. You have not proven anything, it's late and I can't be typing long epistles this time of the day. Your logic on all you listed there are not sound at all.
We all know that we have parents, even if they lied to us at least we have the presence of physical beings, how on earth can you compare that to your eternal creator who you claimed is a spirit? Can't you come up with logical comparisons?

For about 7 hours now, you're yet to answer my questions on planes of existence. Maybe you should just forget it if you don't have answers to my questions.

Akin1212:


Your tactics are to delay by bringing up points where you have been dusted. I am not going to forget what I will say on the Plane os existence issue no matter how long it takes you to answer it. You have not proven anything, it's late and I can't be typing long epistles this time of the day. Your logic on all you listed there are not sound at all.
We all know that we have parents, even if they lied to us at least we have the presence of physical beings, how on earth can you compare that to your eternal creator who you claimed is a spirit? Can't you come up with logical comparisons?

For about 7 hours now, you're yet to answer my questions on planes of existence. Maybe you should just forget it if you don't have an answer to my questions.

I can't take you to Maths class if you can't figure how Arithmetics leads to solving Maths problems.

Digest the Arithmetical analogies first, because a narrow mind will only hold me to "Plane of Existence" and totally ignore the other Arithmetical analogies I gave you.

Common sense should dictate that everything came from one Uncreated source...

Akin1212:


Your tactics are to delay by bringing up points where you have been dusted. I am not going to forget what I will say on the Plane of existence issue no matter how long it takes you to answer it. You have not proven anything, it's late and I can't be typing long epistles this time of the day. Your logic on all you listed there are not sound at all.
We all know that we have parents, even if they lied to us at least we have the presence of physical beings, how on earth can you compare that to your eternal creator who you claimed is a spirit? Can't you come up with logical comparisons?

For about 7 hours now, you're yet to answer my questions on planes of existence. Maybe you should just forget it if you don't have answers to my questions.

Do you know how to draw inferences from analogies? Do you know how to solve riddles? Don't disappoint your fellow atheists out there because they can see you are doing a great job at convincing me to be an atheist.

I gave you a link on one of the world's leading atheist - Stephen Hawkings who is still thinking of the possibility of parallel planes of existence. If you need more guidance go and research Stephen Hawkings thoughts on Parallel Universe... after that, we can discuss.

Good night.

OkaiCorne:


Do you know how to draw inferences from analogies? Do you know how to solve riddles? Don't disappoint your fellow atheists out there because they can see you are doing a great job at convincing me to be an atheist.

I gave you a link on one of the world's leading atheist - Stephen Hawkings who is still thinking of the possibility of parallel planes of existence. If you need more guidance go and research Stephen Hawkings thoughts on Parallel Universe... after that, we can discuss.

Good night.

Oga, your actions are evident you are avoiding answering my questions. Don't give me links, answer the questions. You have been asking me questions and I have been answering without delaying. ANSWER MY QUESTIONS OR LET'S END IT HERE. AND OF COURSE, I'LL KNOW IT BECAME TOO HOT FOR YOU TO HANDLE. JUST ANSWER, HOW HARD IS THAT?

Akin1212:


Oga, your actions are evident you are avoiding answering my questions. Don't give me links, answer the questions. You have been asking me questions and I have been answering without delaying. ANSWER MY QUESTIONS OR LET'S END IT HERE. AND OF COURSE, I'LL KNOW IT BECAME TOO HOT FOR YOU TO HANDLE. JUST ANSWER, HOW HARD IS THAT?

I've been answering your questions with basic answers, but it appears you have a fixed mind already, whatever I will tell you on the plane of existence won't make sense to you either.

You asked for references I gave you one...now you are shouting I shouldn't give you links. Let me know what exactly you want

Oga if you claim to be an atheist and Stephen Hawking is of no importance to you...are you even an atheist?

The few atheists I've come across seems to be intelligent, don't be an exception to this rule... please tell me how to solve maths without knowledge of arithmetics...if you can do that...then I will totally believe that no Creator exists...

OkaiCorne:


I've been answering your questions with basic answers, but it appears you have a fixed mind already, whatever I will tell you on the plane of existence won't make sense to you either.

You asked for references I gave you one...now you are shouting I shouldn't give you links. Let me know what exactly you want

Oga if you claim to be an atheist and Stephen Hawking is of no importance to you...are you even an atheist?

Just answer the questions, I'll ask again here..

Who created the planes of existence?
What did our ancestors do to alter it as you have claimed.

JUST THESE TWO QUESTIONS AND YOU HAVE BEEN DRIBBLING. NA WA O.

Akin1212:


Just answer the questions, I'll ask again here..

Who created the planes of existence?
What did our ancestors do to alter it as you have claimed.

JUST THESE TWO QUESTIONS AND YOU HAVE BEEN DRIBBLING. NA WA O.

But you haven't made sense of my previous answers and analogies, so even if I answer you on this one...it's gonna change nothing.

I can bet my balls on that one.

Go and check my previous reply, I said there is an Eternal Creator who is responsible for the planes of existence

On your second question, if you understand how Buhari's intelligent decisions has "helped" Nigerians from their economic hardship...then you will understand how the choices of a few has led to the suffering of many.

If you cannot draw any inference from the Buhari analogy I just gave now...then you have done a good job defending the common sense of fellow atheists out there.

Good night once again...abi you no dey go work tomorrow?

OkaiCorne:


But you haven't made sense of my previous answers and analogies, so even if I answer you on this one...it's gonna change nothing.

I can bet by balls on that one.

I understand... I like the way it ended.
Good night.

Akin1212:



I understand... I like the way it ended.
Good night.

You can ignore my modified post...I saw this one very late.

Cheers

OkaiCorne:


You can ignore my modified post...I saw this one very late.

Cheers

I like your indirect and insincere approach, it's cunny but not the best way to go about life. Face the truth instead since you're a truth seeker. But I must tell you, I am way too disappointed today by your avoiding and dribbling game.

See you again when you have consulted more people about the planes of existence, but you can go with this. Your eternal creator is way too clueless for creating planes of existence that can be disturbed by mere mortals. It still adds to the fact that the world was not intelligently created by this your perceived creator. Albeit your creator and the planes of existence are fictitious...... I think you are now familiar with the line.

Good and see you later.

Akin1212:


I like your indirect and insincere approach, it's cunny but not the best way to go about life. Face the truth instead since you're a truth seeker. But I must tell you, I am way too disappointed today by your avoiding and dribbling game.

See you again when you have consulted more people about the planes of existence, but you can go with this. Your eternal creator is way too clueless for creating planes of existence that can be disturbed by mere mortals. It still adds to the fact that the world was not intelligently created by this your perceived creator. Albeit...... I think you are now familiar with the line.

Good and see you later.

Do you really want us to have a vigil over this issue?

Anyways, I am friendly with atheists who have a better plan for humanity than religious people that cannot even help a local dog. We may not agree on everything, but as long as there is a common goal in solving Humanity's problems...I'm a supporter of that.

If my knowledge of the Eternal Creator has not helped me improve humanity in any little way possible...then I am a huge failure.

And please...I am not insincere or cunny. I am still trying to understand how I dribbled you...or is it because I asked you basic questions?

The answers to life's complexities are in the simplest of things...that's just the way I see life. I don't know about you though.

Thanks and see you later today.

OkaiCorne:


Do you really want us to have a vigil over this issue?

Anyways, I am friendly with atheists who have a better plan for humanity than religious people that cannot even help a local dog. We may not agree on everything, but as long as there is a common goal in solving Humanity's problems...I'm a supporter of that.

If my knowledge of the Eternal Creator has not helped me improve humanity in any little way possible...then I am a huge failure.

And please...I am not insincere or cunny. I am still trying to understand how I dribbled you...or is it because I asked you basic questions?

The answers to life's complexities are in the simplest of things...that's just the way I see life. I don't know about you though.

Thanks and see you later today.

Akin1212:

Meanwhile...you can go ahead tormenting the theists...this atheist vs theist battle seems amusing to me though

As for me...I don't think I need to be a theist or atheist to accept very basic facts like...seeing a sun up in the sky later today or the possibility of rain falling as well.

OkaiCorne:


Meanwhile...you can go ahead tormenting the theists...this atheist vs theist battle seems amusing to me though

As for me...I don't think I need to be a theist or atheist to accept very basic facts like...seeing a sun up in the sky later today.

Still, doesn't mean a creator created the sun though. I am not here to battle theists, there are other fruitful things to do than investing my time into that. I just don't enjoy seeing cluelessness. Hence, I will set straight anyone who seems to divert from reality.

Akin1212:


Still, doesn't mean a creator created the sun though. I am not here to battle theists, there are other fruitful things to do than investing my time into that. I just don't enjoy seeing cluelessness. Hence, I will set straight anyone who seems to divert from reality.

Alright then...I guess we've slugged it out enough. Do I have your permission to step out of the ring for another opponent? Or do we move on to the next round of slugging?

Or we just wave our white flags and move on?

OkaiCorne:


Alright then...I guess we've slugged it out enough. Do I have your permission to step out of the ring for another opponent? Or do we move on to the next round of slugging?

Or we just wave our white flags and move on?

You have not answered my questions, you keep coming indirectly. Until you do that I guess we can't o ahead. Answer my questions directly and stop giving comparisons.

Akin1212:


You have not answered my questions, you keep coming indirectly. Until you do that I guess we can't o ahead. Answer my questions directly and stop giving comparisons.

If you can use your knowledge of basic arithmetics as a tool to solve furthermaths problems then you will clearly understand my thought process.

I love it when people get to realize things for themselves after I give them clues.

If you are expecting a direct answer...especially on the Planes of Existence, the only thing that will make me do that is if you research Stephen Hawking thoughts on the possibility of a parallel universe.

I need us to have a common ground first...before we can move forward instead of arguing fruitlessly.

I admitted I learnt two things from you...but I guess I've been blabbing jargons all day that you couldn't pick any clues from me.

Akin1212:


It seems you guys have the same set of beliefs, can you help him answer the questions asked?

He said the planes of existence are responsible for the natural disasters we see around.
I then asked, who created these planes?
He answered again and said the eternal creator. And added that our ancestors have made choices that disrupted the plane of existence of earth
I then asked again, what are these choices?
Since then he has been dribbling me. Should I call it a day or you'll help him out?

hmmm when you bring your tractor to a piece of land to ridge, you destroy and disrupt some ants lives without knowing ,right? How do we explain to the ants that it isn't God that is responsible for this ' natural disasters' that are noble deeds to you poor farmers?

OkaiCorne:


If you can use your knowledge of basic arithmetics as a tool to solve furthermaths problems then you will clearly understand my thought process.

I love it when people get to realize things for themselves after I give them clues.

If you are expecting a direct answer...especially on the Planes of Existence, the only thing that will make me do that is if you research Stephen Hawking thoughts on the possibility of a parallel universe.

I need us to have a common ground first...before we can move forward instead of arguing fruitlessly.

I admitted I learnt two things from you...but I guess I've been blabbing jargons all day that you couldn't pick any clues from me.

Look, you should have known already that this psychological stressing cannot work on me. I don't know why you cannot see that fact. If you cannot be direct with your answers then there's no point dragging this issue. The only way we can ever have a common ground is not when I accept your ideologies. You cannot force it. Your logic about solving further maths with basic maths doesn't hold water. Be direct with simple answers to my questions, if not, I guess we should forget it. It's obvious you feel threatened by those questions, hence your avoidance to answer them. I have seen how much of a big deal the question re to you, it will crumble all you believe in. It will render invalid your eternal creator and you're trying to avoid that by all means. How can you label yourself a TRUTH SEEKER when you already know what the truth is but you're avoiding it. There's no point dragging with you, my common ground is science oriented, you don't have that.

I asked you to give scientific references, you claim one Stephen Dawkins said something, hell, I care not.
My atheism is strictly based on my own views alone. I decided to be a disbeliever in the existence of any god because I reached that height by my own findings and reality. Nobody influenced me, I have told you the planes of existence is not scientific in any ramification. When you see scientific references that claim the plains of existence exist, quote them here. Before then just provide direct answers to my simple questions and stop dragging your feet here. You're slowing us down.