Tornadoz:

@I-manWith uneducated a*sholes, ask the inmates of Abu Ghraib.

Debating your ilk is a futile effort.

@Tornadoz,

You get energy oooo.

I read where Davidylan was asking if Bush needed Nigeria as an ally in the illegal invasion of Iraq and wondered if we contributed a single soldier.

Now, OBJ wrote a letter and categorically stated he was against the war.

The result? The US embassy was closed down for some days and the US withdrew their so called military assistance to Nigeria as at that time.

That was one of the time I was very proud of OBJ and ofcourse since the US benefit more from our relationship than we do they opened their embassy (to continue to milk ignorant Nigerians dry with $100 visa fee for even 2 minutes interview).

So, Bush wanted Nigeria to support the war and even promised money to countries like Pakistan to support the war too.

@Afam
I know a story like that is repugnant to davidylan. They forget America only gives with preconditions, especially a republican president. I wonder who feed these people news?

Afam:

@Tornadoz,

You get energy oooo.

I read where Davidylan was asking if Bush needed Nigeria as an ally in the illegal invasion of Iraq and wondered if we contributed a single soldier.

Now, OBJ wrote a letter and categorically stated he was against the war.

The result? The US embassy was closed down for some days and the US withdrew their so called military assistance to Nigeria as at that time.

That was one of the time I was very proud of OBJ and ofcourse since the US benefit more from our relationship than we do they opened their embassy (to continue to milk ignorant Nigerians dry with $100 visa fee for even 2 minutes interview).

So, Bush wanted Nigeria to support the war and even promised money to countries like Pakistan to support the war too.

You people have proved my point then US foreign aid to Nigeria has increased tremendously despite OBJ's opposition to the Iraq war culminating in US/UK support for the cancellation of our debt.

Like I noted earlier,its not just Nigeria but countries like Liberia,Gambia,Ghana,Seychelles,Mauritius,e.t.c.Where all these countries asked to send troops to Iraq ? Una dey funny

I feel like responding to I-Man and TayoD but too much has gone down since my last post (I hope I'm not taking the convo too far back). Anyway even if removal of a long standing administration leads to violence, at least let it be the people that would carry out the removal and not some Texas cowboy with a personal vendetta in addition to his greed. The issue at that time was 9/11, he was supposed to go after OSAMA. Attention suddenly switched from Osama to Hussein (Government Magic as Fela would say). Bush did not plan for this war they're fighting right now, he just thought they would go there drop Bombs over Baghdad for about 3days come home and sleep. How stupid and irresponsible can a man with so much responsibility resting on his shoulders be? I wasn't trying to say earlier Bush is responsible for all the evils in the world (don't want to flatter him) but at least he's the cause of the escalated violence Iraq has experienced in the past couple of years

Ok I read the previous and I think I might have just echoed what ppl discussed already. Back to the topic tho; Whats the use of a freely elected government if the citizens of the country are not free to live their lives? Those people, I'm sure, must feel more caged in now than before Bush's War Of Terror.

mr me too:

Ok I read the previous and I think I might have just echoed what people discussed already. Back to the topic tho; Whats the use of a freely elected government if the citizens of the country are not free to live their lives? Those people, I'm sure, must feel more caged in now than before Bush's War Of Terror.

mr. mee. too lets be sincere. Where the Iraqis freer under Saddam? Is the situation in Iraq because the US has caged them or because they themselves having been released from the shackles of Saddam and the oppression of a false peace now begun to show their true colors?

Yes I would say they were safer. If the exit of Sadaam has made them show their so called true colors then I think the presence of Sadaam was a good thing. From what you are saying that means Sadaam somehow managed to suppress their violent ways.

mr me too:

Yes I would say they were safer. If the exit of Sadaam has made them show their so called true colors then I think the presence of Sadaam was a good thing. From what you are saying that means Sadaam somehow managed to suppress their violent ways.

and you thought saddam would live forever?

I-Man or Woman which ever you are, where did you get the fact that americam army is not shrinking in recruitment. please check out this millitary site and be honest with yourself and stop arguing blindly it will benefit.http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,77951,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl

I-Man or Woman which ever you are, where did you get the fact that americam army is not shrinking in recruitment. please check out this millitary site and be honest with yourself and stop arguing blindly it will benefit.http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,77951,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl

@fromuk

This is not the most recent,I saw some figures 2 weeks ago,let me see if I can find them

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=10057

What's wrong with your link?

@fromuk
You want more links?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/12/AR2006121200808.html#

PS:Its important to know whether  the stats are for 2004/2005 or rather 2006/2007.The latter,as you know, is what I was refering to

Just check out how evasive people are just to make an invalid point.Mr me-too made the following remark lamenting the lack of freedom:

mr me too:

Ok I read the previous and I think I might have just echoed what people discussed already. Back to the topic tho; Whats the use of a freely elected government if the citizens of the country are not free to live their lives? Those people, I'm sure, must feel more caged in now than before Bush's War Of Terror.

He was then questioned on this alleged loss of freedom:

davidylan:

mr. mee. too lets be sincere. Where the Iraqis freer under Saddam? Is the situation in Iraq because the US has caged them or because they themselves having been released from the shackles of Saddam and the oppression of a false peace now begun to show their true colors?

This is his response:

mr me too:

Yes I would say they were safer. If the exit of Sadaam has made them show their so called true colors then I think the presence of Sadaam was a good thing. From what you are saying that means Sadaam somehow managed to suppress their violent ways.

"Yes I would say they were safer"?    You made the point about a "lack of freedom" and defended it by claiming that Iraqis are "safer".Two entirely different concepts.Btw Nigeria and Qatar,one can say that the former is freer but the latter safer.Freedom is not a synonym for safety

Having made the ridiculous point about Iraqis loosing their freedom post-Saddam,he ran away from that when challenged by using the straw man argument.Answering a question he wasn't asked.

PS:@fromuk-I'm still waiting for your response on the recent recruitment figures

mr me too:

Yes I would say they were safer. If the exit of Sadaam has made them show their so called true colors then I think the presence of Sadaam was a good thing. From what you are saying that means Sadaam somehow managed to suppress their violent ways.

Coming from an African,this is a disingenious argument.I have addressed this issue earlier.Take one salient example-Would you say that Ian Smith's minority rule in Rhodesia,now Zimbabwe,was a good thing because life has deteriorated tremendously under black majority rule with Mugabe?

All indices show how much life has worsened since black majority rule.Many white Zimbabweans who now live in England make the point that it shows that the British Govt was wrong to encourage them to cede power to the majority black population

I-man today is memorial day in the state you have to be here and look on CNN and see the pain in peoples eyes for their lost ones. how can you support this blindless and unjust war? was IDIAMI not as bas as SADDAM? why didn't USA go after him? WAS SAMUEL DOE not as bad as Saddam, why didn't they go after him? all this propaganda by the bush administration is to gain support for the war. how do they know that saddam killed millions? they can't even find the weapons of mass distruction and they want to brain wash us with numbers. TODAY IS A SAD DAY IN AMERICA.

I know safer is not synonymous to freer but they're nonetheless linked. Safer means more freedom. Freer to go to the marketplace and not think about getting blown up. Its a senseless war without any justification. Ppl have lost loved ones for no just cause. This man has deceived and taken advantage of people. His war is a lie. I'll rather live in a safer than his so-called freer place.

I-man:

Coming from an African,this is a disingenious argument.I have addressed this issue earlier.Take one salient example-Would you say that Ian Smith's minority rule in Rhodesia,now Zimbabwe,was a good thing because life has deteriorated tremendously under black majority rule with Mugabe?

All indices show how much life has worsened since black majority rule.Many white Zimbabweans who now live in England make the point that it shows that the British Govt was wrong to encourage them to cede power to the majority black population

You know what? I'll leave that to the Zimbabweans to decide. You can never know how people feel until you experience it. If standards of living has really deteriorated for everyone, then believe me there would be some people wishing the whites were still ruling. This doesn't mean I support the white minority rule, in fact I'm a 100% against it but you have to weigh the way life was before and after to make your decision. Is the freedom more important than food on your table

MAMAJAMA:

how can you support this blindless and unjust war?

There is fundamental fallacy in asking the question "how can you support this war"?It assumes the premise as proven viz,withdraw US troops and the war ends.My evaluation is that the war will escalate with the withdrawal of US troops.

So the question correctly phrased should be "how can you support US military prescence in Iraq"?For neither you nor I know for certain,that the war will end upon a withdrawal of US troops.

The false premise is based on the fatuous perception that the conflict in Iraq is simply one btw US led Coalition forces and Iraqis/Arab "freedom fighters".

In reality,there are 2 conflicts in Iraq.The one just outlined and a much larger and more costly conflict btw the various sectarian groups in Iraq.In btw,there are all sorts of minor conflicts going on btw various insurgent and political groups e.g Mahdi militia vs Badr Army in Southern Iraq

A withdrawal of US troops will end the first conflict outlined but not the latter.In my opinion,the latter will actually escalate ,due to the lack of trained and capable security forces to plug the gap left by a US withdrawal, causing even more civilian lives.It is the latter conflict that has been the most costly,in terms of lives lost. Witness the suicide bombing in the Baghdad market today killing 21 civilians.A withdrawal of US troops will not automatically stop such bombings.Why would it?

This is the case that you should be laying out-Why you think that a withdrawal of US troops would end the war. You shouldn't assume your premise as proven.

To the question,"how can you support the war"? My answer is I don't .In reality nobody actually does,not even Bush.He more than most would have loved the war to have ended as far back as 2003.I guess the real question we should be asking is "how do you end the war"?

mr me too:

You know what? I'll leave that to the Zimbabweans to decide.

Doesn't that undermine the integrity of your previous argument?You have already decided for Iraqis that Saddam was a "good thing"You could have simply said you don't know either way and that the issue should be decided by Iraqis.
How they get to "decide" when they have been gassed and murdered in the hundreds of thousands by Saddam beats my imagination.

Does anyone genuinely believe that most Iraqis did not support the hanging of Saddam, ignoring the arguments about how and when it was carried out

Read the post before mine that you quoted, I was just simply responding to the way he stated his point (I wasn't saying Sadaam was good). Of course many Iraqis would have celebrated Sadaam's death but not with this consequence. This war has been a failure is all I've been trying to say.

the one who hears the massage of an angry american soldier should also tell us the massage from the sudannese and zimbabwians.
peace in any part of the world must be through war.
south africa sacrified a lot to gain freedom. those who are afraid to die will not leave and that is the problem in Zimbabwe till date and they continue perishing and non of these good massengers here is worried with the situtaion there where our fellow africans are dying on daily bases rather we are more worried about iraq because america is involved.
most of our people are living in america and enjoying everything good about it without asking, how did this people get here.
you condem america and you live in america. is that not madness? most of our leaders in nigeria will send their children abroad only to come back and tell us nigeria is our country and we must fight and demonstrate for our rights.
who is fooling who?

@chidichris

good massengers here is worried with the situtaion there where our fellow africans are dying on daily bases rather we are more worried about iraq because america is involved.

If you care so much about Zimbabweans you should start a topic regarding Zimbabwe.

you condem america and you live in america. is that not madness

You live in Dubai and yet you condemn most policies by Arab countries, is that madness? My answer is no.
Because you live in a country does not mean you can't constructively criticize the policy of the govt, except you're an illegal migrant.

@Tornadoz

The evil man has struck again!Can you believe that that devil's incarnate(Bush) announced plans to double the US's aid program for HIV/AIDS from roughly $3billion per annum to about $6billion per annum.[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,,2091703,00.html[/url]

This marks a change from spending under Clinton which peaked at $570 million per annum.What do you think is the "true motive" behind this outrageous act ?

An excerpt from the story:

Backstory

George Bush's spending on HIV/Aids is seen as a success story. According to figures published yesterday, between 2003 and early 2007 more than 850,000 people received life-sustaining antiretroviral treatment as a result of US funding. Before yesterday Mr Bush allocated $15bn for HIV/Aids funding between 2003 and 2008 but experts have estimated that this would in reality total about $18bn and contrasted favourably with the overall international effort.  

@ I-man

the wicked Bush is probably planning to use that money to invade Nigeria. What a devil!

Tornadoz:

Because you live in a country does not mean you can't [b]constructively criticize[/b] the policy of the govt, except you're an illegal migrant.

Is blanket opposition to each and every single policy of a Govt constructive?Is sheer hatred of a Govt constructive?

@I-man

@Tornadoz

The evil man has struck again!Can you believe that that devil's incarnate(Bush) announced plans to double the US's aid program for HIV/AIDS from roughly $3billion per annum to about $6billion per annum.http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,,2091703,00.html
This marks a change from spending under Clinton which peaked at $570 million per annum.What do you think is the "true motive" behind this outrageous act ?
An excerpt from the story:
Backstory
George Bush's spending on HIV/Aids is seen as a success story. According to figures published yesterday, between 2003 and early 2007 more than 850,000 people received life-sustaining antiretroviral treatment as a result of US funding. Before yesterday Mr Bush allocated $15bn for HIV/Aids funding between 2003 and 2008 but experts have estimated that this would in reality total about $18bn and contrasted favourably with the overall international effort.

Is he evil?
Now lets look at the facts.
Unlike you, I stayed and watched the entire news. I didn't run from the news after this supposedly kind gesture from Bush.
Since you missed the remainder of the news broadcast on the said day, let me tell you what the newscaster also said.
5 Americans died in Afghanistan, some British and Germans got kidnapped in Iraq, an explosion killed x number of people etc. This is a typical day in the life of the great govt of G Bush. So on one hand he gives and on the other hand he kills. I'll tell you some of the reasons why I hate his govt.
1)This good man set record for most executions by any governor in American history before being president
2)Attacked and took over two countries.
3)Became the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
4)First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
5)Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.
In short the list is endless, please don't ask me why I think he's an evil man. You will only set me on a roll.


Can you please name his other achievements other than the above? See if you can find any. You asked the question

What do you think is the "true motive" behind this outrageous act ?

Please tell me, because I don't know. Am about to read the small print, but should you find out the reason, please let me know. It doesn't make sense. If he loves black people so much maybe he should start from home. Is this not the same man that went on holiday during hurricane Katrina leaving Black folks to die on their roof? How come he likes Africans but hate Blacks in America?

@I-man

Is blanket opposition to each and every single policy of a Govt constructive?Is sheer hatred of a Govt constructive?

Blanket opposition?
Tell that to the widows and orphans around the world. Whilst you are at it, tell the Jews Hitler wasn't such a monster, on his break from killing Jews he also have one or two good policies you could refer to.

Tornadoz:

Now lets look at the facts.
Unlike you, I[b] stayed and watched the entire news[/b]. I didn't run from the news after this supposedly kind gesture from Bush.
Since you missed the remainder of the news broadcast on the said day, let me tell you what the newscaster also said.

This is the problem with people who sit in Benin city, listen to 5 minutes of NTA news and automatically assume they now know the "facts" even more than those who live in Washington DC!
Are we to now assume everything we hear on the news is really true?

Tornadoz:

5 Americans died in Afghanistan, some British and Germans got kidnapped in Iraq, an explosion killed x number of people etc. This is a typical day in the life of the great govt of G Bush. So on one hand he gives and on the other hand he kills.

Aha, what the newscaster probably forgot to tell you was that the same Afghanistani government you so want to sob and shed blood for almost killed an afghani who converted to christianity but for the intervention of the international community.
Did the newscaster remember to let you know that the there more people killed by Iraqi insurgent groups in 1 minute than are killed by US troops in one month?
Aha did the newscaster tell you WHO detonated the bombs that killed the x number of people? US and British troops or G Bush himself?

Tornadoz:

I'll tell you some of the reasons why I hate his govt.
1)This good man set record for most executions by any governor in American history before being president

It takes a judge and a jury to sentence a condemned criminal to death. The constitutional duty of the governor is to ratify the decision! Learn to reason!

Tornadoz:

2)Attacked and took over two countries.

Maybe you should have channeled more of your hate to the Syria (invaded and occupied Lebanon for 25 yrs) and Iraq (invaded Kuwait and Iran).

Tornadoz:

3)Became the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

This is why you hate the US government? A classic symptom of people who have no clue is that they want to help cry more than the bereaved. the Americans here are yet to complain about the above. Maybe you should be helping urself a great deal by "hating" the president who left you with increased gas prices.

Tornadoz:

4)First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

The Americans arent complaining. they hardly need an ignorant individual from Benin City who is hypocritically praying for a Us visa to help them complain.

Tornadoz:

5)Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.

You forgot the governor who won elections in Imo state on bail? How about Omisore who won a senatorial election while in detention on murder charges? Did Dariye not escape bail in London? What of Alams?
There are worse examples to concern yourself about in your own coountry!

Tornadoz:

Is this not the same man that went on holiday during hurricane Katrina leaving Black folks to die on their roof? How come he likes Africans but hate Blacks in America?

Had hurricane katrina occured in Nigeria the tragedy would have been 100 times worse. You have better things to do like going to queue 18hrs for non-existent and overpriced fuel than to concern yourself with the crisis in Katrina. There are no hurricanes in Nigeria and yet most of the urban centers are no better than US cities hit by hurricanes.

At least Bush still came to katrina from his holiday, what did your president do when all your aircraft started falling out of the skies?

@davidylan
Considering the above as your doctrine why do you get involve in Israel and Palestinian issues, since you don't live there? How did it come into your midget thought process that I wanted a US visa. I thought we were now supposed to discuss the issues but I think the full area of your ignorance is not yet mapped.
Am going to stop myself from the pain of wading through your miasma of incoherent ramblings.

Tornadoz:

@davidylan
Considering the above as your doctrine why do you get involve in Israel and Palestinian issues, since you don't live there? How did it come into your midget thought process that I wanted a US visa. I thought we were now supposed to discuss the issues but I think the full area of your ignorance is not yet mapped.
Am going to stop myself from the pain of wading through your miasma of incoherent ramblings.

When a man is clueless, he will resort to insults to evade answering salient questions. Of all the more than 300 hundred words i typed you only saw the phrase that refered to u looking to get a visa?
Of course how can you think we were supposed to discuss issues? this is thread number 3 where you have used insults to dodge issues all together prefering instead to direct insults as soon as your shallow mentality is exposed.

Tornadoz:

@davidylan
Considering the above as your doctrine why do you get involve in Israel and Palestinian issues, since you don't live there? How did it come into your midget thought process that I wanted a US visa. I thought we were now supposed to discuss the issues but I think the full area of your ignorance is not yet mapped.
Am going to stop myself from the pain of wading through your miasma of incoherent ramblings.

there is a different between "being involved in an issue" and staying abreast of current developments on an issue. I am not involved in the Isreali-palestinian crisis as i do not live there neither am i isreali but no thanks to the biblical significance of the land of Isreal, i keep my self updated on issues relating to that region as they occur. Its quite different from running away with a mere 3mins of unverified NTA news highlights and then ignorantly parading them as facts.