Gbawe:

Look, it is well established what third generation Nigerians are. Let us not begin discrediting a legitimately accepted category migratory pattern has created.

See the link below. Focus on Box 1: Nigerian Migration history.


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1fy8ZK7K3ggC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=UK+third+generation+nigerians&source=bl&ots=AvzP1Zoal7&sig=cNAgNvdxwV920kHWcPg7HiUmtZY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O-eST6vBN5OV0QXvsLiCAg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=UK%20third%20generation%20nigerians&f=false

Immigrant generations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations

In the United States, among demographers and other social scientists, the term "second generation" is used to refer to the U.S.-born children of foreign-born parents

Nebeuwa: There seems to be a wave of criminality that is impacting British of Nigerian descent. Everyday, we here news of another young Nigerian either committing a crime, or being the victim of crime in the United Kingdom. What I want to know is what is the problem?

The same cannot be said of Nigerians who live in the United States. It is very rare that you hear about a Nigerian in the United States being involved in a gang. It is so rare, that I have never heard of such, even though I know it probably does exist. Are there any differences between the Nigerians in the United States and Nigerians in the United Kingdom?

I have my own hypothesis, in which Nigerians in American want to differentiate themselves from African Americans who are often seen at the lower levels of United State society, but Nigerians in the United Kingdom do not have that luxury to differentiate themselves from other black groups in the UK since they are all recent arrivals.

Another hypothesis that I have is that there are more opportunities for Nigerians born in the United States than Nigerians born in the United Kingdom. The U.S. is more of a merit based society, even though it is being eroded compared to the United Kingdom when it depends on not only your social class, but also your pedigree.

Are there any other reasons that you can think of?

kingoflag:

How long have you live in the United States because, I'm sorry to say, your analyis on Americans of Nigerian descent does not make sense, really (and I dont say that to be disrespectful).

Nebeuwa:

I was born and raised in the United States and I am only half Nigerian. And my analysis about Nigerian Americans is very true.

If you disagree with me, then provide some information that counters my arguments.

When was the last time you heard of any Nigerian Americans living in the United States being involved in gang activity? Why does it seem like there is a crime wave amongst Nigerians youths living in Great Britain?

You would think that Nigerians living in America, would be more susceptible to the "gangsta" lifestyle, since African American culture is the dominant culture in the black community.

I am not trying to be rude, I just want to know what is happening in the UK that is causing many Nigerian youth to behave like this.

shymmex:

We're talking about the MAJORITY here, and those responsible for the crimes - the OP made this thread about.. I don't know where you live in the UK, but I live in an area, with the largest Nigerian community out here - and I have families all over London.. I can say I'm privy to information about young Nigerians out here - because I'm young, and I was raised - and I can relate to most of these kids.

The difference between your assertions, and my post is that, I know about the gang culture (I grew up around it) - and I used to be a social worker.. I'm talking based on experience, and based on what I used to be part of.

shymmex:

I think if you want to get the right response, you need to be more subtle in your comparison between Nigerians here in the UK - with Nigerians in America - not to get people like Gbawe overly defensive..

I just talked about gbawe's assertions with some of my friends, and we all had to laugh it off...

shymmex:

I think if you want to get the right response, you need to be more subtle in your comparison between Nigerians here in the UK - with Nigerians in America - not to get people like Gbawe overly defensive..

I just talked about gbawe's assertions with some of my friends, and we all had to laugh it off...

tpia@:
^black british are majorly of carribean descent while nigerian british are of nigerian descent. That's false.

this isnt a govt paper, so lets not split hairs.

a large proportion of AAs are also of carribean descent, just like the black british.

however, i agree with you about british of nigerian descent being hugely influenced by other places.

Cut or dice it however you want. OP insinuates that British folks of Nigerian origin seem to have a propensity for crime more than Nigerian, or Americans of Nigerian origin, in America. first and foremost, it must be pointed out to OP that you cannot assume someone is Nigerian because of their name. That is the point.

There are many Britons with African origin who , naturally, are entirely British in thinking and orientation because they were born and bred in the UK.

Frankly, I don't do what the OP does i.e generalise when my knowledge is scant. I won't speak about societal trends in America when I don't know enough to be adjudged an informed party. My consistent argument is that Britons of Nigerian origin cannot exist in a vacuum. They will be susceptible to societal challenges and indeed even positive British culture. For example, Sade Adu sings how she does because of the influence of the UK on her. Good or bad, for Britons of African origin, where you spend your formative years plays a role.

Nebeuwa:

I sometimes forget about that. I do not wish to bruise any egos, and maybe I should not have made a comparison amongst the Nigerians in the UK and Nigerians in America.

It is my belief that the differences lies with the different societies that Nigerians find themselves in. Since the United States is basically a nation of immigrants, people from across the world can do well and thrive. The same cannot be said of the UK and even other Europeans nations, where nationalist can play a major role in society.

Gbawe:

To be honest, you need to grow up and learn to be a lot more mature. You come across as very childish. When you are not telling us ridiculously that Nigerians don't regard you as Nigerian ,even when you speak Yoruba and pidgin fluently, you are asuming you went to Uni in the UK and others did not. You then, from reading what others write, can denote who speaks with a Nigerian accent or not. Foolishly, you insinuate we should hand you winner-of-the-debate award because you were in gang culture, a social worker, blah blah blah when this is an issue that concerns black folks themselves to the extent we are all fairly informed about it.

Now, between posting here, you have miraculously found some time to exchange the jist of this debate with friends. Grow up kid and learn to face the discussion alone with making assumptions or insinuating something you claim to be predisposes you to be a superior voice on issues that affect many black families directly.

What is your point anyway? Mine is simply that folks who are born in a nation and grow up in it will undoubtedly be affected by overarching societal issues. It is no different for black folks born and bred in the UK even if they are of Nigerian, Ghanaian, Togolese, Malian origin.

A THIRD of criminals entering Britain’s top youth jail last year were foreign, it was revealed yesterday.
More than 2,000 crooks aged ten to 18 passed through Feltham Young Offenders Institute in West London.

A total of 632 were not born in the UK. Somalia was the birthplace of one in ten of the foreigners — the highest of any nationality.

It was followed by Romania, Jamaica, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Algeria, Lithuania, Congo, Ireland and Portugal.

Think-tank MigrationWatch last night said the figures, from January 2010 to April 2011, were “shocking”.

Its chairman Sir Andrew Green said: “Clearly the efforts made to integrate these people from immigrant communities have failed.”

The Sun obtained the figures through a Freedom of Information request.

They appear to confirm studies over the last ten years showing a steady rise in crimes committed by young Somali men.

But charity Somali Action on Youth Crime said the figures were “biased”.

Its director Mustafa Ibrahim said: “Government forms don’t distinguish between Somalis and people from other parts of Africa, so Somalis get blamed for crimes by other people.”

But a Prison Service spokesman insisted other African prisoners are not classed as Somalis. He said: “Prisoners are asked to state their nationality and place of birth.”

Gbawe:

This is generalisation that bears no semblance to what obtains on the ground.

shymmex: I only replied to the bolded part of your post - because I was raised here.. I can't really speak for Nigerians in America, because their struggle is different from mine. All I can I say is that Nigerians over there have it better - probably because of Affirmative Action reserved for blacks, regardless of their country of origin...

Are they not Nigerians?? And if you think they're not - what do they fill in application forms?

Who do you blame for that?? [b]Is it not the parents who failed to instill the Nigerian culture in their kids? [/b]It's a well known fact that, there is nothing like black british (it's just a term on paper).. If you black out here - you're still classified as African, or Caribbean - regardless of where you, or your parents were born..

Correction, Sade Adu makes soul music - which is an African American genre of music.

Genres Smooth jazz, soul, jazz, R&B, quiet storm, soft rock, adult contemporary

We may agree to disagree - but the truth about UK is that, there is no "American Dream" out here - and the opportunities are limited..

Gbawe:
America and the UK are two different Countries. First learn to understand that and you will see issues more clearly to note that the UK is not, comparatively, failing black folks . America stands seperately because of its history and past challenges. Go and check average salaries between the two nations, employment figures, homeownership and other financial indices and you may be mildly surprised to note that the average Briton is not worse off. Certain things dilute the big picture (population, size etc)but most black folks in the UK don't have it significantly worse than their counterparts in th
e USA where discrimination exist also.

In fact, beyond the USA where else do you see black folks enjoying "The American dream" significantly better than in the UK? The UK does not have to equal America for us to note that it is still , ahead of far many others, one of the Countries with the best opportunities for skilled and hardworking black folks.

it is not uncommon to find subsequent generations of African migrants struggling to reach the heights their parents attained. Why is this so?

Gbawe:

Simply not true. Ridiculous actually. This is not the 80ties. Nigerians who improve themselves, to the best extent, and possess sought-after skills, have virtually the same chances of excelling as anyone else in the UK today.

Tell OP the truth and don't indulge his mindset that America is Paradise for Nigerians while the UK is 'barren land'. There is no sector in the UK (health, IT, engineering, Accounting, Property development, teaching et al) that competitive and driven Nigerians, who have made the best of themselves, don't excel in.

The World, in general, is becoming tougher with opportunities becoming more limited. It is not enough to just leave Nigeria, heading for the UK, thinking your success is assured. of course if you are as good as others, or better, you will find that the UK is still one of the best Nations in the entire world as far as the concept of rewarding talent is concerned.

The Crime Wave Impacting British Of Nigerian Descent

But will Naija women in the UK listen ? I bet not.

Ilekokonit:

When the mother (including a LARGE proportion of Nigerian mothers in the UK) chases out the father from the house due to stubbornness and/or greed for single parent benefits, if care is not taken and instead of focussing on her kids upbringing she instead sees her new found marital freedom as a time to gallivant after new men (often multiple men as none of them stays with her for long) only God can help straighten out her kids especially the male children.

shymmex
but the truth about UK is that, there is no "American Dream" out here - and the opportunities are limited..

it is the children that eventually suffer because no matter how hard she tries, a single mum can not effectively handle a boy child.

the boy child automaticallly sees himself as the man of the house with the mum pandering to his every demand and excessive waywardness all in a bid to be in his good books.

eGuerrilla:

While I agree with much of what you wrote up there, I also see how easy it is to overstate how far we have come in the UK.
If I understand Shymmex correctly, this is precisely the point he is trying to convey.

If you take the issue of social mobility, for instance, it is not uncommon to find subsequent generations of African migrants struggling to reach the heights their parents attained. Why is this so?
There is surely something unique about the obstacles which cast some of our youth adrift in Britain, in comparison to 2nd/3rd generation Indians for instance.

For this reason, while I understand your point about the vagaries of life in Britain and the need to situate any discussion on migrant-youth delinquency in the broadest context, I feel it falls short in addressing @OP's original questions.

[b]America has failed its blacks


Of America's 40 million black population, a quarter live in poverty compared with about 20 per cent at the end of the Clinton Administration. That's a million more African Americans who have lost the battle to become "stakeholders" in Bush's stakeholder society, which he reckons he's creating by relentlessly cutting taxes, especially for the wealthy.

Americans, it seems, were surprised by the suffering they witnessed in New Orleans They had no idea that there were areas of America where people lived in conditions that were as bad if not worse than in many Third World countries. And yet virtually every American city has its equivalent of the Lower Ninth Ward in New Orleans - black and poor and crime ridden, in which social structures, especially the family, have virtually disintegrated. In the inner-city ghettos of America's cities, most births are outside marriage, most families are single-parent and men between 18 and 25 are about as likely to end up in jail as they are to get a job.

Americans were so shocked and surprised by what they saw in New Orleans because, despite the historic changes wrought by the civil rights movement in the 1960s that ended state-sanctioned segregation and discrimination, America remains a segregated society.

According to Census Bureau figures, only about 5 per cent of Americans live in "mixed" neighbourhoods. In the main, whites and blacks self-segregate. What has happened to black America mirrors what has happened in America generally in the past few decades: there has been growing wealth and growing poverty. The great achievement since the 1960s has been the rise of a black middle class. The great failure has been growing poverty and hopelessness in those inner-city ghettos.

But the growing black middle class has chosen to live in predominantly black middle-class neighbourhoods and send their children to black middle-class schools. The history of racial discrimination has not yet been lived down; blacks, even middle-class blacks, prefer to "live with their own" than risk being subjected to racism.

What this means is that white and black Americans have little real contact with each other and, just as important, the black middle class is about as removed from the hopelessness and social disintegration of inner-city blacks as is white America.

Nothing changed after the drowning of New Orleans. And nothing is likely to change. It seems that most Americans agree with Ronald Reagan who, referring to the war on poverty launched by Lyndon Johnson in the '60s, said there has been a war on poverty and that poverty has won.

it is not uncommon to find subsequent generations of African migrants struggling to reach the heights their parents attained. Why is this so?