Gbawe:

My sister, this is why I said to Nebeuwa "don't let some losers decieve you". The system is not perfect but of course we all know the class of black folks who sit around whining about "lack of opportunities", "racism" and making other excuses to mask their inadequacies and plain old lack of balls.

What class do you belong to, mate??

Are you as successful as Darcus Howe and his children in the UK?

Do you even know what I do for a living?

If you belong to the 'upper class' like you want us to believe; you won't be on NL 24/7 arguing back and forth, over petty partisan politics in Nigeria. Didn't you move from the 'perfect' UK to Ghana? And why are you a mouthpiece on NL, for an utter corrupt Nigerian political class?

Your arguments are hypocritical - take a deep breath, and look at the man in the mirror.

naijababe:

The Indians owing to their numbers were the first and largest beneficiaries of Tony Blair/ New Labour Centre left policies, before 1997, they were just another group of ethnic minorities also grappling with the system as it was, it's not as if they did anything spectacular. Before 1997, the vast majority of succesful asians were either doctors or restaurant owners, of course after 1997, all ethnic groups got better footings in the system.

Bradford (more 70% of the city are of Indian/Pakistan/Bangladeshi origins)riots was about cultural tensions rather than fewer opportunities, there's reason why the place is called Bradistan.

I still do not understand why anyone have to define their own goals based on some random person they see on TV. The only role models I have ever needed are my parents, same way I intend to be all the role model my kids will ever need.

Are you implying that the higher number of Indian businesses is as a result of fiscal policy? What about Indians who own chains of corner stores and pharmacies? Was that also fiscal policy? To be honest, Nigerians have been too reliant on the system. Ostentacious lifestyles sometimes prevents Black people in the UK from expanding. A guy who owns a small shop in Peckham has bought an e-class before its even one year. Indians on the otherhand will look haggard for years, focusing on expansions. I don't want to get into this too much before Nigerians attack me.

People need role models; not everyone has a mother/father who is inspiring. Some of the most successful people in the world have had role models that weren't their parents even when their parents didn't do too badly. Why do professionals need mentors if all one ever needs is a parent.

My point about the Bradford riots was about Asians initially having a leg to stand on before getting comfortable. Black folks on the other hand were rioting even when they had no leg to stand on. There is also a big difference between Indian and Pakistani/Bangladeshi.

naijababe:

You are the one suffering from grand delusions. I agree with Gbawe

Where are these successful black people (I'm not talking about middle income earners)?

Somebody just struck a chord.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_Nigger

Katsumoto:

Are you implying that the higher number of Indian businesses is as a result of fiscal policy? What about Indians who own chains of corner stores and pharmacies? Was that also fiscal policy? To be honest, Nigerians have been too reliant on the system. Ostentacious lifestyles sometimes prevents Black people in the UK from expanding. A guy who owns a small shop in Peckham has bought an e-class before its even one year. Indians on the otherhand will look haggard for years, focusing on expansions. I don't want to get into this too much before Nigerians attack me.

People need role models; not everyone has a mother/father who is inspiring. Some of the most successful people in the world have had role models that weren't their parents even when their parents didn't do too badly. Why do professionals need mentors if all one ever needs is a parent.

My point about the Bradford riots was about Asians initially having a leg to stand on before getting comfortable. Black folks on the other hand were rioting even when they had no leg to stand on. There is also a big difference between Indian and Pakistani/Bangladeshi.

I am Nigerian and I completely agree with oyu. The black race is a consuming race. We conume what others produce. Also intead of buying Inoson we buy Benz and the money goes out of the community. I am trying to change that with my site. If we are going to consume, we consume in our community.

Katsumoto:

Are you implying that the higher number of Indian businesses is as a result of fiscal policy? What about Indians who own chains of corner stores and pharmacies? Was that also fiscal policy? To be honest, Nigerians have been too reliant on the system. Ostentacious lifestyles sometimes prevents Black people in the UK from expanding. A guy who owns a small shop in Peckham has bought an e-class before its even one year. Indians on the otherhand will look haggard for years, focusing on expansions. I don't want to get into this too much before Nigerians attack me.

People need role models; not everyone has a mother/father who is inspiring. Some of the most successful people in the world have had role models that weren't their parents even when their parents didn't do too badly. Why do professionals need mentors if all one ever needs is a parent.

My point about the Bradford riots was about Asians initially having a leg to stand on before getting comfortable. Black folks on the other hand were rioting even when they had no leg to stand on. There is also a big difference between Indian and Pakistani/Bangladeshi.

I don't know how youths, with parents working as security guards, and care workers; would view their parents their role models.

The truth is always bitter, but black people like shying away from the truth.

igbo2011:
Aliko Dangote, Oprah Winfrey, Jay-Z, Bob Johnson, Mike Adenuga, there are plenty of blacks in business but young kids rather try and become a rapper or athlete. While my counterparts were rapping and trying to get into sports, I studied on my spare time and learned about economics, history, sociology, business, and politics. I can become a historian if I wanted to with my knowledge of African history. I have my role models mainly in my family so they pushed me hard.

Also why are Africans looking for jobs? We need to tart our own business in our community where people buy from our community and do it that way. We always rely on others to find us jobs. We should set up business instead of splurging our money in other people's communities. Read the book capitalist nigger by Chika Umeah to understand more.

We tend to blame other people then we go to there shops and spend all of our money in their community. We complain then go to a Gucci store and waste money on materialistic things instead of spending in our communities. Join the movement and look for African owned businesses: www.nigerianedp.com

The topic is about UK kids. How do you want those individuals you listed to be role models for kids in the UK? Someone in a different environment and period can inspire you in a certain way but inspiration comes from having similar experiences to someone who made it despite some obstacles. Do UK kids even know who Dangote is?

Dont blame the kids - Blame their parents.

Many cant afford to send their children back to naija periodically for holidays.

Many parents that can afford to do so - dont for one flimsy excuse or another (eg fear of kidnappers)

So we now have a generation of children of Nigerian origin that do not know their culture.

Many join gangs - as a supplement to being part of a tribe because they have lost their culture.

A few clever parents make the sacrifice and send their children back after a period to get some culture back home. Their children tend to turn out better.

If you ask many of these children where they are from they will say 'Peckham or Brixton' rather than Nigeria.

If you ask them their tribe they are more likely to say 'The SW2 Massive' rather than Yoruba, Igbo or Hausa.

igbo2011:
I am Nigerian and I completely agree with oyu. The black race is a consuming race. We conume what others produce. Also intead of buying Inoson we buy Benz and the money goes out of the community. I am trying to change that with my site. If we are going to consume, we consume in our community.

I support your message. The consciousness of the black consumer must change. You need powerful advertising to accomplish this. They will fight back.

I don't know how youths, with parents working as security guards, and care workers; would view their parents their role models.

i dont get your point?

Nigerian Americans are excelling while British of Nigerian descent do not have such opportunities

this is misinformation.

Katsumoto:

Are you implying that the higher number of Indian businesses is as a result of fiscal policy? What about Indians who own chains of corner stores and pharmacies? Was that also fiscal policy? To be honest, Nigerians have been too reliant on the system. Ostentacious lifestyles sometimes prevents Black people in the UK from expanding. A guy who owns a small shop in Peckham has bought an e-class before its even one year. Indians on the otherhand will look haggard for years, focusing on expansions. I don't want to get into this too much before Nigerians attack me.

Hmmm, really! Like I said before the vast majority of asians who are successful before 1997 were either doctors or restaurant owners! For all the hoopla about Indians and their corner shops, you also have vast amounts of Nigerians with salons/ethnic stores, if you don't see that na u sabi. I used to live in council estate and I know how many black business owners i encountered who also sent their children to good schools. Enough of this crap about ostentatious lifestyles, please it's their money.

People need role models; not everyone has a mother/father who is inspiring. Some of the most successful people in the world have had role models that weren't their parents even when their parents didn't do too badly. Why do professionals need mentors if all one ever needs is a parent.

Really?! Professional mentors and role models are now one and the same?

My point about the Bradford riots was about Asians initially having a leg to stand on before getting comfortable.

If that leg was that strong to stand on, there won't be riots in the first place

Black folks on the other hand were rioting even when they had no leg to stand on. There is also a big difference between Indian and Pakistani/Bangladeshi.

Big difference wo? didn't they all used to be Indians?

Katsumoto:

I support your message. The consciousness of the black consumer must change. You need powerful advertising to accomplish this. They will fight back.

I am advertising as much as possible. Share my site on your facebook or twitter page: www.nigerianedp.com and like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nigerian-Economic-Development-Plan/278164788911610

Brixtonyute:

I don't know how youths, with parents working as security guards, and care workers; would view their parents their role models.

The truth is always bitter, but black people like shying away from the truth.

Is that so? You mean they can't teach their children to work hard, to take opportunities that are available to them, to not develop a sense of entitlements?!

Brixtonyute:

I don't know how youths, with parents working as security guards, and care workers; would view their parents their role models.

The truth is always bitter, but black people like shying away from the truth.

Role model is not always about being well off,rich and "blingy" but about intergrity,self-appreciation and fundamental understanding of humanity.

naijababe:

Hmmm, really! Like I said before the vast majority of asians who are successful before 1997 were either doctors or restaurant owners! For all the hoopla about Indians and their corner shops, you also have vast amounts of Nigerians with salons/ethnic stores, if you don't see that na u sabi. I used to live in council estate and I know how black business owners i encountered who also sent their children to schools and I hear this crap about ostentatious lifestyles all the time, please it's their money.

Yes its their money but we are trying to understand why Black people somehow seem to only have one branch/office/restaurant, etc The point wasn't about indians or anyone having a business, its about expanding. Having a hair salon in Peckham is ok but to have real economic power, they must do more.

naijababe:

Really?! Professional mentors and role models are now one and the same?

Yes it can be the same. There are people who have sought out role models who later became their mentors.

naijababe:

Is that so? You mean they can't teach their children to work hard, to take opportunities that are available to them, to not develop a sense of entitlements?!

You are still making the same mistake. Not everyone grew up with a dad around the house. Plus you are assuming that all parents love their kids or are willing to put their kids interest before theirs. This is not always the case. Like Spike lee said, parents are the biggest killers of ambition and dreams. Don't assume that because your parents inspired you, others must have parents who inspired them as well.

Gbawe -

You asked me if I have ever been to the UK? The answer is yes, I spent a summer in the UK a few years ago staying with family members. And I've seen firsthand the "gangsta culture" that is pervasive amongst black youth in the UK. I was quite taken aback by it, because these black youth in the UK try to imitate the hip hop culture that is present in the United States, which I found amusing.

England is smaller than the United States, but I believe there are more Nigerians living in the UK than there are in the US. I could be wrong though.

That being said, you cannot deny the fact that many British of Nigerian descent are finding themselves in the news committing heinous acts. Was it not a couple of days ago that three Nigerian youth killed a young man in cold blood in the UK? I hate to say this, but stop living in lalala land and wake up and smell the coffee, or tea if you like. Something needs to be done about this wave of criminality that is not only impacting Nigerian youth in the UK, but black youth in general in that country.

This is not about competition between Nigerians in the UK and Nigerians in the US, because there is no competition. We in the US have more opportunities to succeed than those in the UK. Affirmative Action is one example.

Brixtonyute:



What class do you belong to, mate??

Classic display of inferiority complex. What has class got to do with this? Is it because you assume others are looking down on you always? Clearly this is an example of how you are predisposed to seeing "stumbling blocks" everywhere. You are a perfect example of the black man who has read all the books about "how they keep us down" while forgetting to formulate ideas on how to push back, get on your feet and stay on it.

Are you as successful as Darcus Howe and his children in the UK?

How does Darcus Howe, even if NL had only idiots for members, become the hallmark of success black folks must now be judged by? If Darcus Howe and his kids are demi-gods to you, then that is your problem. Some of us are well-adjusted enough to set what amounts to personal success and fulfilment for ourselves without the insecurity to collate a tally with others.

Do you even know what I do for a living?

Why should I care what you do for a living? Fact is that there are folks who pragmatically and intelligently accept the UK for what it is. They get on with life safe in the knowledge that evolution will take care of the rest. Those folks tend to succeed because they reject the 'victim' mentality and fail to dwell on percieved limitations in preference for focusing on what is achievable.

If you belong to the 'upper class' like you want us to believe; you won't be on NL 24/7 arguing back and forth, over petty partisan politics in Nigeria.

You really are hung up about this class issue aren't you? Inferiority complex, especially one that endures, is a curse mate. As for my presence on NL, Politics, especially African politics, is a personal passion. What is yours? Moaning 24/7 about how hard done by you are?

Didn't you move from the 'perfect' UK to Ghana?

Where have I said the UK is perfect? Because I don't wish to join you in falsely maligning the UK as the worst Nation on earth ,vis-a-vis the concept of minority empowerment, that means I hold the UK to be perfect? Besides, your play at amateur detective suck because I am still in Ghana for aroung 4 months a year, Similar for Naija and the rest of the year I am in the UK. Not everyone remains within the confines of one Borough of London 24/7 ,let alone one Nation, for life.

And why are you a mouthpiece on NL, for an utter corrupt Nigerian political class?

Clearly, you are deluded. No doubt.

Your arguments are hypocritical - take a deep breath, and look at the man in the mirror.

Take your own advise. Perhaps the bitter, disgruntled and pessimistic man you see staring back at you may jolt you out of your depressive outlook.

Nebeuwa: Gbawe -

You asked me if I have ever been to the UK? The answer is yes, I spent a summer in the UK a few years ago staying with family members. And I've seen firsthand the "gangsta culture" that is pervasive amongst black youth in the UK. I was quite taken aback by it, because these black youth in the UK try to imitate the hip hop culture that is present in the United States, which I found amusing.

England is smaller than the United States, but I believe there are more Nigerians living in the UK than there are in the US. I could be wrong though.

That being said, you cannot deny the fact that many British of Nigerian descent are finding themselves in the news committing heinous acts. Was it not a couple of days ago that three Nigerian youth killed a young man in cold blood in the UK? I hate to say this, but stop living in lalala land and wake up and smell the coffee, or tea if you like. Something needs to be done about this wave of criminality that is not only impacting Nigerian youth in the UK, but black youth in general in that country.

This is not about competition between Nigerians in the UK and Nigerians in the US, because there is no competition. We in the US have more opportunities to succeed than those in the UK. Affirmative Action is one example.

that's complete bull.
the black youths in the uk have more opportunities to succeed than those in the usa.
what are you talking about? the opportunities of a british born black guy is limitless(if he takes advantage of it).
he has about 20 countries in europe he can walk into and work without any hassles.

igbo2011:

More like the Europeans won't be able to live in their countries anymore so they will go to Africa an take the lake and elimnate the people. Then Africans will be like the Native Americans, Aboriginals, or Palestinians. If they come in millions with guns then they can take Africa easily. Also other countries will fight over Africa too like China or Russia. We shouldn't trust anyone.

you cant change biblical prophesy. all that you wrote will never happen. if it was supposed to happen, it would have happened before now.

coogar:

that's complete bull.
the black youths in the uk have more opportunities to succeed than those in the usa.
what are you talking about? the opportunities of a british born black guy is limitless(if he takes advantage of it).
he has about 20 countries in europe he can walk into and work without any hassles.

Is that so? I feel this is about to become a schlong measuring contest.

The U.S. is more immigrant friendly than any other nation in the world. There is no comparison. A nation that was founded by immigrants, compared to a nation that is not. Sorry, but we in the U.S. have more opportunities. Heck, I would go as far as say that Nigerians in Canada have more opportunities to succeed than those in the UK.

Have you heard of American exceptionalism?

Nwa_Nimo: Dont blame the kids - Blame their parents.

Many cant afford to send their children back to naija periodically for holidays.

Many parents that can afford to do so - dont for one flimsy excuse or another (eg fear of kidnappers)

So we now have a generation of children of Nigerian origin that do not know their culture.

Many join gangs - as a supplement to being part of a tribe because they have lost their culture.

A few clever parents make the sacrifice and send their children back after a period to get some culture back home. Their children tend to turn out better.

If you ask many of these children where they are from they will say 'Peckham or Brixton' rather than Nigeria.

If you ask them their tribe they are more likely to say 'The SW2 Massive' rather than Yoruba, Igbo or Hausa.

another complete trumpery.
how can you blame the parents? it's the government and their idiotic laws concerning the child is the difference.
caning has been prohibited in british schools for eons. parents can't "discipline" their kids otherwise they get thrown in jail.
let's just say the government has given all the powers to the kids and they can behave anyhow they want to.
i don't blame the parents - i blame the government!

Nebeuwa:
Is that so? I feel this is about to become a schlong measuring contest.

The U.S. is more immigrant friendly than any other nation in the world. There is no comparison. A nation that was founded by immigrants, compared to a nation that is not. Sorry, but we in the U.S. have more opportunities. Heck, I would go as far as say that Nigerians in Canada have more opportunities to succeed than those in the UK.

contrary to what you think, britain is one of the most multi-cultural country you can think of.
every race is accepted. it's no biggie. we don't have hilly-billy rednecks or white supremacists nonsense
you guys deal with over there. yes, racism still exists but it's so negligible, it can be ignored.

the usa is not immigrant friendly than the united kingdom, that is farcical!
canada have more opportunities for immigrants? this is becoming a joke now.
i am sure afghanistan and somalia have more opportunities too.

I am glad that this thread is sparking a vigorous debate. This is what Nairaland needs.

coogar:

that's complete bull.
the black youths in the uk have more opportunities to succeed than those in the usa.
what are you talking about? the opportunities of a british born black guy is limitless(if he takes advantage of it).
he has about 20 countries in europe he can walk into and work without any hassles.

Indeed. Nebeuwa is bent on generalising and I suspect nothing will change his opinion.

coogar:

another complete trumpery.
how can you blame the parents? it's the government and their idiotic laws concerning the child is the difference.
caning has been prohibited in british schools for eons. parents can't "discipline" their kids otherwise they get thrown in jail.
let's just say the government has given all the powers to the kids and they can behave anyhow they want to.
i don't blame the parents - i blame the government!

That the government outlawed caning does not mean that a parent should now be resigned to fate. There are parents out there who are willing to risk an invitation from social services and the police to ensure that their kids turn out alright. The government wont live in your house. Parents must take responsibility. Besides, a parent is older than a child and should know how to motivate and discipline his/her kids.

Gbawe:

Indeed. Nebeuwa is bent on generalising and I suspect nothing will change his opinion.

I am still waiting for a proper refutation. You have been debating those who currently live in the UK. Who am I suppose to believe? You who make 0.5% of Nigerians living in the UK or the average Nigerian in the UK who does not have it so easy?

coogar:

contrary to what you think, britain is one of the most multi-cultural country you can think of.
every race is accepted. it's no biggie. we don't have hilly-billy rednecks or white supremacists nonsense
you guys deal with over there. yes, racism still exists but it's so negligible, it can be ignored.

the usa is not immigrant friendly than the united kingdom, that is farcical!
canada have more opportunities for immigrants? this is becoming a joke now.
i am sure afghanistan and somalia have more opportunities too.

Isn't it safer to know your enemy than your enemy who is pretending to like you but killing you silently?

How do you ignore racism in the UK?

Katsumoto:

You are still making the same mistake. Not everyone grew up with a dad around the house. Plus you are assuming that all parents love their kids or are willing to put their kids interest before theirs. This is not always the case. Like Spike lee said, parents are the biggest killers of ambition and dreams. Don't assume that because your parents inspired you, others must have parents who inspired them as well.

And you are also still missing my point! I'm supposed to give a f/uck about what Spike Lee thinks, another random person on TV?! Maybe saying that my parents were all I needed is why you are missing the point, the fact is, it's better for your role model to be someone you know, in your community not some random face on TV who happens to be the same race as you.

Katsumoto:

Yes its their money but we are trying to understand why Black people somehow seem to only have one branch/office/restaurant, etc The point wasn't about indians or anyone having a business, its about expanding. Having a hair salon in Peckham is ok but to have real economic power, they must do more.



Yes it can be the same. There are people who have sought out role models who later became their mentors.

Really?! Do you even know how much they already do? It just seem to be so fashionable to express this this simplistic view, why I'd never know? The next time you find yourself in London, pick up a copy of the South London Press.

As for Indians expanding, I honestly can't stop laughing, expanding from where to where? That my friend is another misconception!

Katsumoto:

That the government outlawed caning does not mean that a parent should now be resigned to fate. There are parents out there who are willing to risk an invitation from social services and the police to ensure that their kids turn out alright. The government wont live in your house. Parents must take responsibility. Besides, a parent is older than a child and should know how to motivate and discipline his/her kids.

haha -
so what do you expect these parents to do?
they must work 9 to 5 to provide for these kids. they come back home tired n spent!
now they have to monitor these unruly kids who are fearless. they know if the parents poke their
nose too much, he can call social services and lie the parents sexually abuse him.

by the time they know he's fibbing, they would have spent the better part of 2 yrs in jail.
parents are handcuffed to raise their kids the proper way here. the kids are so difficult to control.
sometimes they even pretend. saints at home, devil incarnates in school. teachers can't touch them,
parents can't touch them.

Katsumoto:

Isn't it safer to know your enemy than your enemy who is pretending to like you but killing you silently?

How do you ignore racism in the UK?

by doing better than your white counterpart!! it's so simple.
if you put in the shift, you get appreciated. if you rest your laurels and wait for british manna,
then you have yourself to blame.

i have never been racially abused in britain in my entire life. i have taken more
abuses in nigeria than anywhere i have been. so do you really expect me to take racial
issues serious?

Nebeuwa:

Is that so? I feel this is about to become a schlong measuring contest.

The U.S. is more immigrant friendly than any other nation in the world. There is no comparison. A nation that was founded by immigrants, compared to a nation that is not. Sorry, but we in the U.S. have more opportunities. Heck, I would go as far as say that Nigerians in Canada have more opportunities to succeed than those in the UK.

Have you heard of American exceptionalism?

You clearly don't know what you are talking about and your amiable language does nothing to hide a shallow desire to gain validation through feeling superior to others. You say this should not be "a schlong measuring contest" and then you , in the same post, go on to say this "but we in the U.S. have more opportunities". Come on dude it is not Rocket science. It is obvious your thread is a mischievous attempt at getting folks to massage an ego obsessed with vacuously looking down on others.

Gbawe:


You clearly don't know what you are talking about and your amiable language does nothing to hide a shallow desire to gain validation through feeling superior to others. You say this should not be "a schlong measuring contest" and then you , in the same post, go on to say this "but we in the U.S. have more opportunities". Come on dude it is not Rocket science. It is obvious your thread is a mischievous attempt at getting folks to massage an ego obsessed with vacuously looking down on others.

the dude is a joker. blacks don't have any opportunities in america.
if we are talking about black males, then this even more laughable.
they either end up dead on the streets or locked up in the penn!
compare the % of black population in america to the % of the black population
in their correctional facilities. the mismatch is ludicrous.