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Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 8:05pm On Feb 25, 2008

Joel Osteen Part III

KING: Good news guy, right?

OSTEEN: Yeah. But you know what? It's just in me. I search my heart and I think, God, is this what I'm supposed to do? I made a decision when my father died, you know what? I'm going to be who I feel like I'm supposed to be. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Not the end of the world if I'm not the pastor ,

Is this the shepherd that is supposed to lead 30,000 souls to Christ?
So . . . being Pastor was a decision HE chose to make based on HIS FEELINGS and not God's express instruction?

Christianity Etc › Re: Does This Make Me An Unbeliever? by 4Him(m): 7:50pm On Feb 25, 2008

Alphazee:
@4him
Please note that when 2 people have the sickle cell trait (AS), they are forewarned and don't have to marry or procreate. Therefore they will have no kids with sickle cell anemia (they have an option).

Even when they go ahead procreate, statistically, each child has: a 25 percent chance of inheriting two normal genes; a 50 percent chance of inheriting one normal gene and one abnormal gene; and a 25 percent chance of inheriting two abnormal genes (only 1 in 4 may be a sickler).

But as in Adam, All Have Sinned. Total condemnation!! No warnings, no options

Thanks to genetics, 50yrs ago there was no warning for people carrying the AS gene. That means we've had centuries of people dying from sickle cell disease without warning. Isnt that unjust too?

My dear . . . one of the attributes of the enemy is to decieve and twist scripture.

But as in Adam, ALL have sinned. Total condemnation!! Plenty of warnings! ONE OPTION.

It is up to you.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 7:46pm On Feb 25, 2008

@ Nwando . . . it is not about placing christian-sounding words of belief on the website . . .
Even the devils believe EVERYTHING on that website and TREMBLE.

The big difference is that we not only write but that we are bold enough to speak it. If Paul merely posted his words of "belief" on the door of his house and went about denying the truth in the face of the kings and priests of his day we would have had no book of Romans, corinthians, galatians or timothy.

Tayo-D:
4Him, you can't just pick scriptures and condemn someone with it. Those scriptures absolutely do not fit the guy. Tell me, doesn't jesus say by their fruits you shall know them? Please show us the guy's fruits that are contrary to Christ's.

the days of being decieved by just about anyone who climbs a pulpit (oh sorry JO says his is a platform not a pulpit) are over for me.
Where are JO's fruits? Smiling, encouraging sinners, refusing to preach about condemnation, mentoring and psychoanalysis are not fruits of the Spirit.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 7:38pm On Feb 25, 2008

Joel Osteen Part II

. . . Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15

KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?

OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.

My words: Sir, Hell is mentioned 830 times in the bible! If its not you then its not Christ. If you dont believe in hell then neither do you believe in the gospel of redemption.
Christ's sole purpose of coming to earth to die for us was not to encourage us or motivate us to live our best lives NOW but to warn us of the realities of hell and to pay the price for our sins.

KING: But don't you think if people don't believe as you believe, they're somehow condemned?

OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I'm for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it's not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life no matter what's happened to you. And so I don't know. I know there is condemnation but I don't feel that's my place.

My words: Please take cognisance of the words in highlights.
Sir, the words of Jesus Christ Himself - John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How can you know this truth and say you try not to tell sinners that they are condemned already? Is this a sign of love or a sign of extreme wickedness that you would refuse to warn someone about to spend eternity in a fiery furnace?

Its not your job to straighten everybody out? Did you ever read what the bible clearly speaks about the role of a shepherd/pastor?
Ezekiel 34: 2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

Sir, your message is one of "hope" but what "hope"? hope in the security of eternal life in heaven or hope in this world? 1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Sir, my God is not a God of your empty messages of hope . . . He is a loving Father and also a Consuming Fire.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 7:16pm On Feb 25, 2008

Tayo-D:
@4Him,
What do you mean he has no testimony? What's wrong with knowing deep down? Isn't that what the Bible says, that the Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are the sons of God?

Abraham did not rely on knowing deep down, neither did Moses or Paul or Peter, or James or Philip or Timothy or David . . . these men had ENCOUNTERS that changed them. No man met Christ and went away merely knowing deep down, they went away with powerful testimonies that changed their lives forever.

Tayo-D:
Can you tell us about the calling of Peter, Joshua and the likes?

Peter did not know Christ even though he "knew deep down" that the Messiah was to come. But when he met a man who created fishes out of nothing despite him toiling an entire night for it, when he met a man for whom the winds and the seas obeyed His voice, when he met a man who walked on water . . . when he met a man who filled him with the Holy Ghost such that he began to speak in an unknown tongue he had this to say - Acts 4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

These men had tangible testimonies, it was these cloud of witnesses that helped them to stand bold in the face of threats and intimidation.

Tayo-D:
He said he knows he was supposed to pastor the church and you are asking if he was called to minister. What is the job of a Pastor?

None of the prophets or apostles woke up one day and KNEW they were supposed to be called by Christ.
Christ does the calling, we do the obeying . . . it is not our place to KNOW that we are supposed to lead the flock. Any unsaved soul could have made that same statement.

Tayo-D:
I grew up in a Christian home where I never doubted the fact that Jesus is Lord. I can safely say that I grew up believing even though I remember the days when I started realising that I was a sinner and I was gravitated to Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior.

Paul grew up with priests and pharisees . . . infact he grew up believing the old testament and the prophets.

Tayo-D:
I am right now listening to one of his messages because of all these criticms, and he is here saying in prayer, "thank you Father for sending your Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins." And by the way, the prayer was said in Jesus' name and not J.O's name.

How are the elect easily decieved. Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Tayo-D:
If you want to know his salvation story, pleas write him and request for one. But if you want to know what he thingks of salvation, he's made it abundantly clear that the way is Jesus Christ, and that he agrees totally with Billy Graham on that.

It is no longer a salvation story when you would rather share it in a personal email and hide it when you have the opportunity to share it before millions of unsaved souls.

My mother used to say when i was younger . . . if you are TRULY GENUINELY born again you want to share that message with as many as you humanly can. If you hide it, it is an indication that you really are just decieving urself.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 5:46pm On Feb 25, 2008

Joel Osteen Part I

. . . Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15

KING: Why are you a preacher?

OSTEEN: You know, I never was for 17 years. I worked with my dad there at the church. He tried to get me to minister. I didn't have it in me. I worked behind the scenes. I loved doing production and things. But when my father died, I just knew -- I don't know how to explain it, it sounds kind of odd, but I just knew down to here I was supposed to step up to the plate and pastor the church. And it was odd because I had never preached before. But I just knew I was supposed to do it.

My words: How can a pastor have NO testimony of his calling? How can a man entrusted with the eternal souls of 30,000 people tell us on national TV that he is a preacher simply because "he just knew deep down he was supposed to step up to the plate"?
I read about the calling of great men like Moses, Joshua, Peter, Paul, Timothy . . . this men had specific testimonies of how God called them into the ministry of leading His sheep.

They did not depend on inner feelings of loyalty . . . Moses did not have it in Him, Paul was busy killing those he would eventually lead . . . BUT when these men met Christ in the burning bush and on the road to damascus, not even the sword of Pharaoh or the floggings, beatings, jails and the wrath of Agrippa would stop these men from preaching Christ!

Joel Osteen . . . where you really called to minister by GOD?

KING: Is -- have you always believed?

OSTEEN: I have always believed. I grew up, you know, my parents were a good Christian people. They showed us love in the home. My parents were the same in the pulpit as they were at home. I think that's where a lot of preachers' kids get off base sometimes. Because they don't see the same things at both places. But I've always believed. I saw it through my parents. And I just grew up believing.

My words: ", for there is no difference. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23. Brother Joel . . . there is nothing like "i have always believed". David said in iniquity did my mother concieve me!
Where is your testimony of salvation? where is your Damascus experience? Where did you meet God?
Eli was a priest in Isreal . . . his sons lay with the women at the gates of the temple. Samuel was a great prophet in Isreal . . . his own sons did not follow in his footsteps. A family friend used to say, God has not grandchildren . . . you cannot expect to go to heaven piggy backing on your father's spiritual experience, you need your own!

How does a man grow up believing? Believing in what?

Christianity Etc › Re: Danger! Religion May Damage Your Intelligence And Your Mind If Not Your Wealth by 4Him(m): 5:05pm On Feb 25, 2008

therationa:
Where in my comments did I say Christians cannot make good scientist?

therationa:
Why do the majority of christians and religionists hate learning about science, history and philosophy? When asked to review such material they always shy away. Have they got something to fear in these material?

Family › Re: Should I Allow This Wedding To Hold? by 4Him(m): 4:53pm On Feb 25, 2008

tell ur friend before that wedding takes place pls.
That guy has already told one LIE - that he is an engineer when he has no job. What other lie has he told that u dont know about yet?

Pls save ur friend from disaster.

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus: Man Of Peace Or Man Of War by 4Him(m): 4:47pm On Feb 25, 2008

therationa:
Can you square this up with his own statement, viz "I came not to send peace, but a sword".

Your basic problem is you never understood what was meant there as a sword. Why are christians not going about carrying swords? Ever asked urself that fundamental question?

Christianity Etc › Re: Danger! Religion May Damage Your Intelligence And Your Mind If Not Your Wealth by 4Him(m): 4:45pm On Feb 25, 2008

therationalist, i think your virulent brand of atheism has blinded you such that you cant see the truth anymore.
There are many christian professors here in my grad school . . . they have not allowed their faith to blind their quest for scientific knowledge even if it means challenging those very biblical theories that they learnt as children.

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Interesting Sites About Mus-lim Apostates by 4Him(m): 4:37pm On Feb 25, 2008

nanayisha:
What I found most despicable is that you people can not have a discussion without slander and fabrication and misrepresentation. It really shows the level of your intellect. Does your religion not teach you etiquettes. If you want to have debate with some one, you can do it without losing your respect or dignity. You make your argument in a respectful away.

I guess you still have alot to learn, especially from Is'lam and the prophet Mo'Hammed.

Because of your blind and misguided hate, you are missing the most important messages, which obivously is abstain from your religious teachings.

I beg go and get some etiquette lessons. And also how to speak the truth (especially for you Sysuser).

madam nana calm down. Slander, fabrication and misrepresentation? Really?
Is murder, brigandage, under-age marriage, rape, lasciviousness, slander . . . not in the quran and hadiths? Did sysuser put it there himself?

Etiquette lessons? How do we learn that when someone can just fly an aircraft into our office and kill us in the name of ur god? Is that ur idea of etiquette or shld we learn another?

Christianity Etc › Re: Does This Make Me An Unbeliever? by 4Him(m): 4:34pm On Feb 25, 2008

nanayisha:
I am definitely at a lost with this one. If any argue is unconsistent, this is the one.

What of the mus'lim argument that Abraham built the kaaba?

nanayisha:
First it is said that no soul shall carry the burdens of another, then it is said that Jesus died for the Sins of Man.

There is no consistency except that which ur imams have planted into you. If Christ had been a mere man, a mortal like you and me then it would have been strange that a soul would carry the burden of another. But Christ, who Himself is God, took on human flesh, and without Sin took up our onwn sins on the cross that through Him we might be saved.

nanayisha:
Please can we go back to logical. I don't understand the ethos of this ideology. If Jesus died for the sins of Man, why do we need to be good. Why do we need to live clean lives.

Neither do i understand the ethos of your own ideology that you are slaves of a god. why are u a slave? That is UNJUST!

nanayisha:
If anything should come from a religion, it should be consistency.

That is true . . . start with the inconsistencies in is'lam first. You pple have been stumbling around trying to explain it away to no avail.

Christianity Etc › Re: Does This Make Me An Unbeliever? by 4Him(m): 4:30pm On Feb 25, 2008

Alphazee:
On the other hand, Christianity emphasises and relies so much on the concept of "Original Sin" :

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,, "Rom. 5:19

"For as in Adam all die, , "1Cor. 15:22 [i][/i]

This is so unjust that I REJECT IT!!

This is the fundamental aspect of christianity and i'm not surprised that mus'lims, atheists attack this so virulently. For as long as they REJECT this they will likewise perish!

The origin of sin is very similar to genetics today . . . if your parents are both AS one of their children will be SS . . . now was that the fault of the child . . . infact that is so unjust that I also reject it . . .

As Adam was the first man and from whom we all came, we inherited his nature . . . the nature of sin, of rebellion against God and covetousness. However the enemy has also blinded the eyes of this generation that they also forget that we inherited ANOTHER part of Adam's nature, the inherent longing for God and the search for repentance.
Adam had Cain and Abel . . . Abel did not sit down on the floor and weep at the unjustness of having been born in sin thanks to his father's mistake, he made a CONSCIOUS effort to do that which was pleasing in the sight of God and he was saved. Cain chose to whinge about the unjustness of the sinful nature, killed his brother, rebelled against his parents and was cast out into perdition.

Madam, we can cry all we like about the unjustness of the original sin but there is a way out . . . the choice is yours.

Christianity Etc › Re: Danger! Religion May Damage Your Intelligence And Your Mind If Not Your Wealth by 4Him(m): 4:24pm On Feb 25, 2008

therationa:
Why do the majority of christians and religionists hate learning about science, history and philosophy? When asked to review such material they always shy away. Have they got something to fear in these material?

Now i agree that you are going through a kind of brain freeze.
Isaac Newton was a christian ditto for Charles Darwin. Most of the early scientists were christians.

Lets not go too far . . . the most successful brain surgeon in the world today (Ben Carson) is a christian. My parents have been staunch christians for 30yrs, my mum is a doc and my dad an engineer.

Where are the christians shying away from learning science?

Politics › Re: Robbers Invade Canaanland by 4Him(m): 4:18pm On Feb 25, 2008

stillwater:
He has a mouth that stings like a bee, geez!!!!! I fear him

stillwater broke my heart. sad

Christianity Etc › Re: Olabowale, 4 U by 4Him(m): 4:14pm On Feb 25, 2008

Only deluded mus'lims think Olabowale has an "elegant" way of answering questions. If that is elegance then we need to redefine the concept.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 4:10pm On Feb 25, 2008

Joel Osteen starts every message by getting his flock to wave the bible over their heads and say a few words . . . pay very good attention, that is about all the bible you will need to hold for the day. You may as well substitute it for ur diary, the message is usually devoid of any scripture.
It puzzles me, back in the old days your problem was trying to keep up with the number of scripture quotations in the message . . . today you're trying to keep up with the many unbiblical PMA quotes from ur psychologist (errr sorry pastor).

Joel Osteen has NO unique story of salvation . . . he has NO story of his calling into the ministry . . . nothing but "i have always believed".
No one has always believed, we were all sinners and it took one defining moment when we realised that we needed Christ for the hope of eternal life. Where is Osteen's?

I watched Mike Murdoch this morning while trying to catch some sleep and all i could do was shake my head . . . an MBA in marketing graduate could not have done better. This was no message but a shameless pleading for $1000 to complete another piece of vanity couched in the language of "sowing seeds".

Peter Poppoff was next on TBN . . . he is busy hawking his "heavenly manna" allegedly baked as described in the bible. According to him if you eat the manna you will get a breakthrough within 90 days. One such woman ate the manna and won $17000 in the LOTTERY . . . she gave a "testimony" . . . Poppoff praised the Lord and smirked that the woman had taken some of the devil's money.

Have we so fallen down the road to perdition that no longer is the name of Christ the name on our lips but heavenly manna is the road to our blessings?
Since when did we start giving testimonies of winning the lottery?
Why would someone want the devil's money and thank God for it?

Lord come quickly lest even more fall down the trapdoor of self worship in the name of Jesus Christ.

Romance › Re: What's The Fuss Over Light Skinned Ladies?shout Out To The Brown Skin Ladies by 4Him(m): 2:11am On Feb 25, 2008

pahtahkee:
Dark and beautiful is the best oh! But too much light colored, chai that one na another tory.

O boy . . . Bunmi was light and cute and you liked her. tongue

Sports › Re: Nfa To Report David Moyes To Fifa For Saying That Yakubu Falsified His Age. by 4Him(m): 2:05am On Feb 25, 2008

4 Play:
And for God's sake,stay off the pathetic "hip-hop" verbiage.

that also caught your eye? grin

I couldnt understand a word he said if i wasnt following the drift . . . and i've been here for some yrs now.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 1:31am On Feb 25, 2008

Tayo-D:
@4Him,
Who minimises salvation? That's the exact misrepresentation I've been talking about. There's more to the Bible than just salvation in the sense of people being saved. There are principles there that teaches about how to live in the day to day world. I asked you before, if it is all about salvation, what are you doing in school? And tell me, is the Bible relevant to your studies? What difference does your inheritance in Christ make in your studies if any? When you answer these questions truthfully, maybe then you will see what you are yet to see.

You're not getting my point. Salvation is the FIRST step to salvation . . . to teach "principles" first to draw the people before teaching them about salvation and the cross is to attempt to teach a child algebra before he has learnt to spell.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 1:00am On Feb 25, 2008

Tayo-D:
@4Him,
That is where you are wrong. This isn't about watering down the scripture. Every message of the Bible is the message of salvation.

False . . . the message of salvation is very very specific. John 3:16!

Tayo-D:
If I preach that a man who does not work should not eat, will you call that not gospel?

A mus'lim who does not work will not eat . . . is he saved?

Tayo-D:
There are unbelievers in the world today who practice God's word of hardwork and the use of wisdom to prosper even better than Christians. These are the principles of Jesus that he preaches. The Gospel is not just about the preaching of spiritual salvation - it entails much more than that.

they can practice those "principles" from now till 2010 when they die without Jesus Christ they will go to hell.

Tayo-D:
Again this is talking to christians not unbelievers. Do you know what Paul did when he came to Athens? He didn't condemn them. Rather, he met them at their level and began his preaching from the inscription he saw on their temple: "To the Unknown God".

The galatians too?

Tayo-D:
Again, you go on a tangent. This was to his disciples, not the unbelievers.

Maybe you need to read that entire chapter again urself.
- Verse 22 talks about "the people" NOT His disciples.
- Twice in the latter verses the jews are recorded to have asked certain questions NOT His disciples.
- There were no christians prior to His death and resurrection.
- Even the disciples at that point were not yet fully believers . . . Peter would go ahead to deny Him 3rice and Phillip did not believe He was risen from the dead.

Tayo-D:
You talk as if Christ's messages is always like this one. It is not. There are times He preaches to the poor, the broken hearted etc. This are not always messages that speak directly of His person, but of His principles.

Read the gospels and show us examples of Christ watering down His gospel to the poor.

Tayo-D:
You idea of the Gospel is so shallow, it makes it difficult to rally discuss it with you. Are you talking about salvation? If salvation, yes, but the Gospel is much more than just salvation.

False . . . salvation was SO important to God that He came down in His glory, took on Himself the flesh of man and humbled Himself to the death on the cross.
Why didnt He just sit in heaven and send us psychologists to teach us how to use our minds to get what we want?

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 12:39am On Feb 25, 2008

Somethings struck me, as much as the "church" keeps claiming to love God . . .

- is it me or am i begining to notice a gradual substitution of the name Jesus Christ for the more vague and "everyone is welcome" generic term - God?

- If someone merely quoted the words of Christ as written in the gospels word for word every sunday for 3 months, Joel Osteen's church will be down to half its congregation or less.

I'm tired of going to church with a bible in my lap, unopened all through the service, listening to the pastor tell me stories so i can applaud at the right moments and then go home feeling good.
What is the difference between church and a democratic debate?

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 12:30am On Feb 25, 2008

nwando:
There'as a man of God I loved and respected so much in Nigeria during my NIFES days.
Brother Gbinle Akanni.

My sister, i read a few of his books . . . i never read another PMA book couched in the language of christian spiritualism again.
There is a veiled difference between christianity and New Age religion . . . it is no wonder for the devil has changed to an angel of light.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 12:28am On Feb 25, 2008

Tayo-D:
@nwando,
The fact is that these people believe they are worshipping God. If they feel otherwise, they won't be practicing the religion. The worst of it is that others might think they have to go through mediums to reach God because they believe He is far off. However, the bottom line is that their hearts is reaching for God even though they are going about it the wrong way.

We can spend the next 10yrs trying to rationalise away Hindus and pagans . . . the bottomline is what Christ said - He that believeth not is condemned already. It does not matter if they believe they are worshipping God by bowing down to a cow.
Like Nwando said . . . the prophets of Baal were also sincere about worshipping their "god" too . . . Elija cut them down on the mount of Carmel.

Tayo-D:
Why else would Paul declare that For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Isn't this an acknowledgement that they are reaching out for God? they may be deceived, but that is a different matter.

No, what Paul was saying was that the 10 commandments were already components of moral law. Even atheists believe that it is wrong to kill, mus'lims agree that adultery and fornication is sin (they even punish it more vigorously than christians) . . . does it mean they are reaching out to the God of the bible?

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 12:22am On Feb 25, 2008

Tayo-D, i will tackle your much longer post a bit later.

Tayo-D:
@nwando,
I understand your point. However, I think we are overlooking something very critical here. We need to consider whose his audience are. The world he is focusing on in his broadcasts is very concerned about the challenges they face. His message is to provide them with principles that will make a diffenrce in their lives. When they notice this differnce, they'll draw closer where they then have the chance of knowing more about Jesus and get saved. When you turn them off from your first statement on TV through condemnation, then you will never reach them. Of what purpose is that?

My brother, that is the LIE of the enemy and much as i respect you as a person i will not permit such misuse of the scriptures. Please can you back up the above with ANY relevant scripture?
Where did Christ water down His gospel just to pls and draw the crowd first?
Did you read Paul's letter to the Galatians? Why werent they turned off when he called them foolish galatians?

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Wasnt these people also concerned about challenges in their lives? These people who have NEVER heard the message of salvation, did not have the benefit of Paul's books nor the gospels to make sense of oh such a hard message . . . and YET Christ thought nothing of putting His word across. Even the 12 apostles who ate and slept with Christ murmured that this indeed was a hard saying . . . . did Christ beg them? - Verse 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

The gospel is not about appealing to the feelings and selfish nature of man but to convict man of sin unto repentance.

Tayo-D:
But please let's be clear about one thing. The Bible teaches not only about the life of Jesus, but about His principles. It is these principles that he teaches, and he will tell them more about His life when they draw closer.

Which principles? The most important principle of Christ is salvation through His death on the cross . . . without that anyother "life principles" is nothing but fluff, if not we may as well heap to ourselves psychologists to teach us how to live our best life NOW.

Politics › Re: Robbers Invade Canaanland by 4Him(m): 12:10am On Feb 25, 2008

KollyJay:
Thanks for your reply. Its really funny each time u tell us all here You don't support the robbery! @ least about 7 people have done that in the vote and I know u re their leader.

I voted on behalf of the victims.

KollyJay:
God is not a man that He should lie-- Numbers 23. 19, He is not an hypocrite! If He disapproved the schools he will tell them!

Read numbers 23 again, God disaproved of Balaam going on Balak's errand but since balaam was so bent on the riches he could see God gave him up to do as he pleased.
A lot of people mistake God's silence for approval . . . it is true that If God disapproved of the schools He would tell them . . . the question is are the people listening?

KollyJay:
Yeah, after these schools were built, they still keep hearing directly from God, do u think God will be having an issue with u @ one point and then decide to cover it and keep on talking with you that other way?

Ever read about the old prophet in the bible? Ever read the dialogue between God and the devil in the book of Job?

KollyJay:
Omo nope, there is no inquity with him!!! Issue of david u mention, did God spoke with david after he numbered the people? or did God talk to him after the Uriah's death? Nope, He didnt untill he sent His servant to correct him.

Would ur men of Gawd be humble enough to listen to a Nathan today?

KollyJay:
So God approved the schools. No doubt !

in your own oppinion.

KollyJay:
2. How do u know everybody consentrates on the prosperity side of the coin? You re indirectly saying those churches don't open for service on sundays and week days again then, and those men don't organise holy ghost services and no winning of souls like lets go a'fishing again aiight? Ok,

A little truth here a little falsehood there until the entire lump is leavened.

KollyJay:
I really think u desever much reply anyway!!!!! LOL, afterall u have probably cast your vote in support of the robbery!.

your oppinion.

KollyJay:
God bless You friend and thanks very much for showing me how to start a topic.

Thanks and Take care

God bless you too.

Music/Radio › Re: David's song collection by 4Him(op): 11:39pm On Feb 24, 2008

perhaps David and stillwater are the same person, u dont know Doyin. Or maybe we're married . . . tongue

Christianity Etc › Re: Is The European Union Prophesied In The Bible? Is It The Anti-christ? by 4Him(m): 11:37pm On Feb 24, 2008

I think the EU was prophesied in the bible (caution: these are my own thoughts and are not to be taken as the gospel truth, do your own searching).
Revelation 17 talks about these kings.

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 11:34pm On Feb 24, 2008

Tayo-D:
@4Him,

Again, you have not fully represented his message. His style is obviously different from others. If you ask Joel osteen, what is the way to Heaven. He will not miss a beat to tell you that it is Jesus. However, when you ask him if there is another way, he'll not argue it with you, but decvlare that I don't know. Can't you see the difference?

You can see that he is unequivocal in the fact that Jesus is the way to God, but he will not condemn anyone, because he will not get into individual cases that required a judgement of the heart. That is so simple.

No he is not sir. If he were "unequivocal" no caller would have had to call to ask why he was deliberately sidestepping that question when Larry King asked initially.
I ask a few questions here:
- Neither Christ nor the early apostles used "i dont want to judge" as an excuse to water down the truth . . . Christ said clearly - John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If Christ was on Larry King a caller would not have needed to call to ask Him to repeat His answer.

However, when you ask him if there is another way, he'll not argue it with you, but decvlare that I don't know. Can't you see the difference? - May i ask what is the meaning of this statement? Jesus Christ said - I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE . . . should we still be debating that we dont know if there is another way? What other way? Sir, that is the leaven of the pharisees that the bible warned us again, a little truth mixed with some falsehood until the entire lump is leavened.

This man saw Hindus in India and said they love "God" . . . what God?

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 11:25pm On Feb 24, 2008

Tayo-D:
One thing I can not take away from you is your zeal. I must confess that I admire it a lot. That being said, I truly am concerned about some of your writings lately, which I think shows a lack of knowledge of the whole counsel of God., even though that is what you are in effect accusing the larger body of Christ.

Tayo-D with all due respect, i dont think you have bothered to prayerfully go through my line of argument at all before accusing me of lack of knowledge. I dont know all things but i'm willing to learn if you do have a different oppinion.

Tayo-D:
What problem do you have with the teaching about the mind?

Simple. Because i see no where in the entire gospels where the Lord Jesus Christ talked about the mind being the secret to our destiny.

Tayo-D:
In order to streamline this discussion, maybe you will have to list out some of the problems you have with today's teachings, and we can delve into the scriptures to address them one after the other. I'll strat by addressing a few of the isues you mentioned above.

Simply put - Isaiah 30: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Tayo-D:
Of course the Bible teaches you will be transformed, and by implication change your destiny when your mind is renewed. Please see Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. I can see that you have a very limited idea of what salvation is all about. Salvation brings about the instant reborn of your spirit. It gives you the empowerment to change your mind (remember you are giving the mind of Christ), and it promises you that your body will be changed to be like His when we see Him as He is. There are lots of scripture I could point at, but we'll start with these.

I dont agree at all. When you quote Romans 12:2, like the typical motivational preachers of today you conveniently quote ONLY that portion that fits your perception and ignore the most important aspect. Was Paul talking about renewing your mind to change your destiny? Was it all about US?
Romans 12: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Salvation does not give you the power to change YOUR mind, YOU do not have that power if not we wouldnt need salvation in the first place. John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave power to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Sir, again you deliberately misquote 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
You only get transformed to a new spiritual body WHEN He appears and not before . . .

Christianity Etc › Re: Paula White: Without Walls Or Without God? by 4Him(op): 11:11pm On Feb 24, 2008

Tayo-D:
@topic,

Here's the Joel Osteen interview on CNN that you were refering to 4Him. I think you have painted his use of the phrase "I don't know" wrong. You need to be careful with this sinister manipulation of people's words http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

Tayo-D, pls show me where in the bible Christ or any of the apostles used the words "i dont know" anytime they were challenged with fundamental truths of the kingdom. pls kindly desist from accusing me of "sinister manipulation of people's words" because i take such very seriously.
I try as much as possible to do a long perhaps not exhaustive research on a topic before i put it up so as not to be accused such as u have just done WITHOUT BOTHERING TO EVEN READ THROUGH THE EVIDENCE.

Here is just one quote from the original CNN transcript:
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Here is what Christ has to say: John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Uncle Tayo, you can argue from now till next yr . . . when you have 1 chance to minister the gospel on national TV to millions of viewers who would ordinarily NEVER get to hear it you dont balk at it. Apostle Paul, Peter, James and co preached the gospel before Kings and Queens on the pain of death.

That single quote there contained the phrase "i dont know" 4 (FOUR) times . . . uncle, this is what Christ has to say about false teachers like Osteen whom u are so quick to defend - Luke 9: 26 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Family › Re: Natural Delivery Or Cs? by 4Him(m): 9:37pm On Feb 24, 2008

If the wife is small in terms of waist size then a CS.
If labor is prolonged more than necessary then a CS.

All other things being equal i'd like a normal birth.
Prolonged labor can sometimes be dangerous to the mother and baby. Staying too long in the birth canal starves the baby of oxygen and can either lead to blue babies born with long lasting mental defects.

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