₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998999#msg1998999 date=1204057348]And concerning Stephen, you may try as much as you want to project and come to your own conclusion, but the fact remains that he only suceeded in getting the people angry when he called them sinners. Peter on the other hand got over 3,000 people saved when all he preached was Christ.[/quote]I quoted a similar sermon given by Peter in Acts 3 and you basically ignored that.
- What was wrong with Stephen's message?
- Christ preached a similar message and the jews sought Him to stone Him but He escaped because it was not yet His time . . . what if they had gotten to stone Him like stephen? Would that mean His message was unfruitful as you accuse the message of stephen?

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998999#msg1998999 date=1204057348]I am really surprised about your outrage. I thought you'd be outraged by 4Him's implying that we need to obey the law to be saved, but you do not see it fit to address that. I asked him, and you now, how many and how much of the ten commandments or the law did you obey before you earned your salvation?[/quote]Stillwater asked a pertinent question. One of the critical components to understanding the need for salvation is that you are convicted of your sinful nature.
I NEVER implied that you must obey the law to be saved . . . the law cannot save if not Christ would not have come down to die.

But after Christ died and rose again the law did not suddenly become obsolete . . . rather He wrote that same law in our hearts and gave us the power to be able to overcome sin (disobedience of the same laws).
Such that though we dont make a conscious effort the Spirit of God is there to guide us to obey the law.

africanese:
thats what i have been telling the the nigerians that are jelous of nairobi

Nigerians jealous of Nairobi?

ifyalways:
5 good years you had,yet you didnt do nothing?
here are your options:
Coristone injections:this injection is given usually once a month and it helps flatten the keloids.
Surgery:effective but quite risky as the removal of a steroid might trigger the appearance of an even bigger one.
Pulse- dyed laser:flattens the keloid .
silicone gel sheets:wearing of silicon gel sheets for several hours a day.quite expensive.this might compress the keloid.
Cryotherapy:freezing the keloids with liquid nitrogen but this leaves the affected area darker.
Loditin drops:a natural herbal formula said to clear it.
goodluck but why not see a dermatologist.it might not be a keloid yet,it might be hypertrophic scar.

which hospital are u recommending for all these? LUTH?

aisha2:
She is even lucky you paid the bill. There was a girl I knew when i was in school, I met her when i was a jambite, she was like a leech i couldnt get rid off as much as i tried. One of my Childhood friends came from US and he came to visit me in school, he wanted to take us out and quickly she rushed and folloed us, she ordered like a hungry lion, I was so ashamed, but luckily, my friend understood my Plight. The next day he came to visit, I was out and thinking the guy was my boyfriend, she told him i was out with my boyfriend and suggested to him that they go for lunch, my friend is a crazy person so he took her to the most expensive resturant, she ordered like a Somalian Refugee and he took a bottle of Water, when they had finished, he paid for his water and told her to settle her bill so they could go, She was shocked, my friend told her that he didnt invite her for lunch and so could not pay for her food. When he saw that she could not pay, he left her there.
That was the last day she spoke to me.
E good for them, awoof dey run belle

I wish your friend had waited to see how she paid for her food.

Femi 1:
You are an ignorant, our prophet did not denie Jesus, because the Qur'an spoke so well of jesus, so we mus'lims don't need any christian missioner to tell us to believe in jesus befor we believe.

Christ died on the cross and resurrected the third day.
Christ called Himself God the Messiah.

Moh'ammad rejects all these . . . the Qur'an can "speak so well of Jesus" from now till tomorrow and it wont make a shred of difference.

Femi 1:
Moreover Our prophet told us, befor one can have perfect faith he/she must believe in the folowing:
1)All the prophets and messengers,
2)Believe that there is no other God except All'ah and The Great Prophet is his messenger
3)Believe in the Angels
4)Believe in the revealed books
5)Believe in the last day
6)Believe that both Good/Bad is ordained by God.

1. Believe in the angels for what?
2. Believe in what last day? what happens on that day and how do we know when it will come?
3. Which revealed book[b]s[/b]? Where is the torah, sabuur and injeel a'llah sent? We cant believe in what is lost can we?

Femi 1:
Well thats a lie from you,i never heard of that, bring your proof for that.

sorry bro. Christians and jews are not allowed to set foot in mecca.

Femi 1:
I'm very Glady that you said" he was "not he is, Well accepted, he was an illiterate befor he became a prophet of God, but after he became a prophet he knows more than the most learned man, and the history tells us that he is the greatest among all mankind followed by moses.

what history?

Femi 1:
lol, So you too knew that its contradiction. According to Jimmy swagart in one of his books, he said if something is not deserve to be find in a book is found, then the hole books should be thrown away, so to say the Bible supposed to be throw away. well here are some contradictions again from the Bible:
Who was the father of joseph, the husband of mary?
"And Jacob beget joseph mary's husband, "Matt 1v16 kjv.
But "And jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being the son of joseph who was son of HE'LI."luke 3v23.

I'm tired of explaining this "contradiction" over and over again. We thrashed this out on one of therationa's threads a few weeks ago pls find it and read it.

Femi 1:
Please bring any contradiction from the Qur'an if you will find any.

where does the sun set again? Still in a muddy spring?

Femi 1:
dear brother 4Him don't joke with your soul, be a a great one and receive your salvation, the bible says" after death is judgement". and the Qur'an also says " Verily every soul shall taste death".

I thot u said the bible shld be thrown away for its contradictions? why are you then quoting it again or are u balanced at all?
Where is the "salvation" in is'lam? Show me ONE VERSE in the quran that talks about "salvation of ur soul".

The qur'an says every soul shall taste death so what is new here? Even shango worshippers know they must die one day so what special revelation have u revealed? Is the qur'an so bland and silent on this so called last day that you had to desperately borrow from the same bible u revile?

What does the qur'an say about the mus'lim soul?

Femi 1:
The righteous ones will be made to see God in the Hereafter in jannat but not on this earth.

where did the qur'an say this?

Femi 1:
Bring your proof where God said he assuredly guard the injeel and torah.
God only said that he revealed torah and injeel for the guardian of the people of isreal.
Guardian and assuredly guard are diffrent meaning, you are indeed an illiterate.

the same god who said u shld believe in the revealed book[b]s[/b]?
What books?

SysUser:
The thread is starting to sound feisty,

Please let us try and not let this degenerate into BAD BLOOD,

Rather please us "Speak the Truth in Love"

Thanks bro, i'm confident it wont. As much as i disagree with Pastor Tayo-D i still respect him as my egbon in the Lord. Have no fears.

debosky:
Actually I disagree David - you have many options

Over to you alphazee, i didnt even see those "options".

olabowale:
@4Him: You can do better than all your posts above. You are the one who should be concerned that you are dealing with a book contradicting itself all over the places!

Should really? shouldnt you be more concerned about a prophet who boldly declared that the sun set in a muddy spring?

@ alphazee . . .
1. you dont believe the bible in the first place.
2. You cant pick and choose what to believe . . . the bible says all have sinned, you cant reject that to hide under Deut 24:16

Since you declare that you were not born a sinner i have just one more statement for you - Go and the god of this world who hath blinded your eyes be with you.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998267#msg1998267 date=1204045583]@4Him,
The Bible mentioned what happened afterwards. he was stoned. Not one person was saved becuase it takes a preaching of Jesus for the Holy Spirit to convict. Other than that, you are on your own.[/quote]So you mean to say that Stephen's message was wrong?

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998267#msg1998267 date=1204045583]Are those in the new Testament or Old? Do you know the differeences between the two? Christ lived in the OT and not in the NT.[/quote]so all Christ's parables mean nothing to us? Sir the parable of the wheat and tares were refering to events of the last days.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998267#msg1998267 date=1204045583]What sword? Of asking people they will go to hell if they do not live right? The only thing that'll send anyone to hell is not believing in Jesus.[/quote]What sent the people of Soddom to hell?

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998267#msg1998267 date=1204045583]The difference is the sacrifice. Christ died for the whole world, not just a part of it or a few people. His sacrifice affected everyone.[/quote]That's true . . . but of what relevance is this to the topic?
Since Christ died for the whole world we shld simply tell the people what they want to hear?

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998267#msg1998267 date=1204045583]I have shown you scriptures at least twice in the last 4 weeks that you never knew existed in the Bible. I will leave you to continually assume you know all. God will reveal some of these things to you in due time.[/quote]The fact that i admitted to you showing me things i'd never seen before is proof that i dont know all.
But that I know and firmly believe i will say.

The last 2 things u said that i highlighted in my last post above is flatly wrong!

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998128#msg1998128 date=1204043515]As for Stephen accusing the people, how many of them were saved through that? You're right, NONE.[/quote]Uncle Tayo-D, i expected this from someone else totally ignorant of the word. Not from a learned man like you. Because the bible is silent on an issue does not mean it did not happen.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998094#msg1998094 date=1204043030]Christ did not preach the message of Fire and Brimstone in the NT to unbelievers.[/quote]Did you read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?
Did you read the parable of the wheat and the tares?
Did you read Matthew 25 . . .
Did you read Luke 17

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998094#msg1998094 date=1204043030]The message of F&B was well before His coming. He said he came not to condemn.[/quote]He also said He came with to bring a sword.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998094#msg1998094 date=1204043030]Can you tell us how many more god has destroyed since S&G?[/quote]Unbelievable! But for God's longsuffering we long would have followed them. But read Luke 17.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998094#msg1998094 date=1204043030]Was christ crucified before then? S&G was destroyed principally because it was setting up a State of the Antichrist before its time.[/quote]Perhaps in ur own specially made bible.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998094#msg1998094 date=1204043030]Without having to expand this subject again, the only time unbels will be rewarded for their works is in the Millenia kingdom, where each nation will be preserved only on the basis of what they did to the Isreali nation. that is the separation of the sheep and goats.[/quote]Perhaps in your own bible.

almondjoy:
Israel is still occupying Palestine till today.

Ignorant people are back again to continue mouthing the same FALSE propaganda they've been fed with by the media.
What part of "palestine" is Isreal occupying? FYI - the term "palestine" comprised the entire Isreal and Jordan (plus Gaza and the westbank) as at 1922.
FYI the term palestinian refered to a Jew living in Palestine up until 1948.
FYI there was a proposal to adopt the name Palestine until it was changed to Isreal.

almondjoy:
Where were the sanctions? Please let's not go there. Frankly talks about Israel are just as nauseating as those of Religion and I really would not like to pursue this matter. Just to cite some cases where what was good for the goose was not necessarily good for the gander.

Good thing you dont want to go there especially as its painfully obvious u dont know what u're talking about.

almondjoy:
Survival of the fittest I say. The same reason Nigeria gave back Bakassi I guess. To avoid sanctions.

Rubbish! Who was going to sanction Nigeria for giving out Bakassi?
I cant stand ignorance.

Yay! Thanks guys . . .
God bless you.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1998004#msg1998004 date=1204041867]Let me give you an assignement. please go over the Acts of the Apostles and show me where the message of fire and brimstone was preached to convert unbelievers. Start with the message of Peter on the Day of Pentecost and point out where he told them to cease sinning to avoid hell. And by the way, you will see the Holy spirit pricking their hearts when all they heard was just Jesus.[/quote]Below the messages of Peter and Stephen:

Acts 3: 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Acts 7
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Pepeye:
Na wah o for nlanders, they are quick to make judgment at men of God, Joel Osteen this, Paula White that, even Benny Hinn is not left out…. These are great men of God who are winning souls for Christ, which is our number one priority as Christians; they are impacting their world with greatness, They re impacting their world with the knowledge of the Gospel.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Pepeye:
Souls are being won through their ministries; Life’s are being transformed through their ministries. How many souls have you won? How many lives have you transformed? The Bible says that Satan is the accuser of the brethren

The bible also says that Satan has transformed into an angel of light.

Pepeye:
Basically i noticed in the Body of Christ we are quick to judge and point accusing fingers at men of God Psalms 105:15 Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm

That quote dear ma, was NOT to "men of God" but to the kingdoms through whom the children of Isreal were passing in the wilderness on their way to the promised land. I see no where the old testament prophets or Jesus Christ or the new testament apostles used that misleading verse to excuse themselves.
Paul sharply criticised Peter . . . he didnt hide under Ps 105:15 . . .

Pepeye:
Luke 10-2   The Harvest is plenty, but the labourers are FEW

haha if we were to look literarily today . . . the labourers are too many!

Pepeye:
Titus 1:15-16    To the Pure ALL THINGS are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure, but even their mind and conscience are defiled
They progress to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient and disqualified for every good work.

Disobedient men are those who preach a false God to the people.

stillwater:
Interesting!!!!! As much as David's word's sting like a bee,
_{David take it easy}

yes ma'am.  

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1997523#msg1997523 date=1204036851]@Jesoul,
It is actually at the heart of the topic becuase the issues I find that most people have with these preachers is that they do not preach the fire and brimstone messages that we used to hear from the MOG's of old.[/quote]Bros, have you read Christ's own messages in the gospel? Did He not talk about fire and brimstone? Did he not give them a sign as in the days of Noah? Did He not mention Soddom and Gommorah? Did He not mention the punishment on the disobedient men of Nineveh?
Was it really the MOG of old or Jesus Christ HIMSELF who brought us the fire and brimstone message?
Have we so developed itchy ears that we want to blind our eyes to the fact that Christ bled on that cross warning us of the dangers of hell?

Hell is mentioned 830 times in the bible . . . and you are here justifying its conspicous absence in our churche sermons today?

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1997523#msg1997523 date=1204036851]But the question we need to ask ourselves is this: "Is fornication, stealing, adultery and any such sins what will condemn the unbelievers to hell? Is God angry with them becuase of these sins? My unequivocal answer is No.[/quote]Sir, why was God angry at Soddom and Gomorrah?

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1997523#msg1997523 date=1204036851]So I am really surprised when as believers, we preach at unbels to not do this and not do that, as if those things have anything to do with their salvation.[/quote]Sir, salvation did not come and wipe out the law . . . it came to FULFILL the law.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1997523#msg1997523 date=1204036851]But what law is God holding the unbels to? John 16 is very clear that the only sin God will require of unbels is whether they believe in Christ or not. Infact, Jesus mentions that this is the only sin the Holy Sirit will convict them of. So when you see unbels being sorry for other sins, chances are high that it is not the Holy Spirit.
That is where you are wrong. The unbels will only be judged based on what they did with Christ. No unbeliever will be rewarded for anything even if they are as "righteous" as Mother Theresa.[/quote]You're missing the point sir . . . the unrighteous will be judged first for the sin of unbelief and then by their works. Prior to Christ's death and resurrection, there was nothing like believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and though shalt be saved . . . you were saved by the works of the law. It is by that law that the unrighteous of that generation will be judged.

Salvation is not a license to sin.

richy black will denounce anything American . . .
Yes American foreign policy may be crazy at times but you speak like the Cubans had one of gold.

Richie Black will support anything that is anti-US.

debosky:
@ David

why could he not have 'always believed' ?

If he gave his life to Christ at a tender age, and has remained in the faith till now, what gory stories of his sin and dejectedness do you expect?

There is an age of accountability and the bible records that as 20yrs in the OT. It may be younger today . . . but i dont buy that bull about "giving life to Christ at a tender age" . . . it is the favorite excuse of those moralists and religious people keeping up a facade of what they are not.

debosky:
If he did not realise his calling before his dad died. . .how can you say he was never 'called'? He said he KNEW.

He said he "just knew deep down" . . . "i dont know" . . . "i just felt" . . . those are not the words of a man who is BOLD AS A LION in the assurance of his master's calling.

debosky:
I don't know what you regard as 'ministry', but we ALL are called to ministry the MINUTE we become Christians as the great Commission tells us.

why then did Christ give us specific instructions on the character of pastors and deacons? Why wasnt James sent to the gentiles?
Why didnt Philip carry his bags and head off to antioch?

These men knew something we take for granted today . . . they had a specific call on their lives to reach out to a specific group of people. They heard God speak.

debosky:
His messages on TV are not focused on telling people to turn from sin

then his message cannot be of God. Christ spent 3.5yrs on earth preaching the very same thing you say his TV messages are not about.

debosky:
His focus is on reconciliation, telling people what way to live their lives - that in itself is showing that the other way is not right.

Christ did not come and die on the cross that WE may live good lives . . . it really isnt about us at all.

debosky:
The actual syntax used to achieve the aim of re-uniting with Christ is not the issue here - I don't see one place where he has said 'its ok to fornicate or lie just as long as you come to church'.

silence is as good as condoning their sinful lifestyle.

debosky:
Granted that his equivocation on the status of unbelievers was disappointing, it does not take away from his core belief that Jesus is the way.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Core beliefs that cannot be vocalised is useless. Even the devils have that core belief and tremble.

debosky:
Maybe he needs further grounding or establishment in the ministry, but to condemn him based on that alone? I disagree. Many people get caught up in using the bible as a cliche - if he breaks it down to life application, I see no wrong in that.

As the pastor of the largest congregation in America since 1999?

nwando:
david don't be too hard.
We are all running to obtain.

very true. Fact is i used to look up to these men when i was younger. I saw the enthusiasm on the faces of my friends, i loved the upbeat music, i loved to read the books that promised heaven on earth if only i could recite a few words to myself on waking up . . . in contrast i didnt very much like my home church. Half the time we left the place feeling miserable for stealing meat from our mothers pot . . . "God shldnt consider that as stealing" . . we all thot.

But the older i grew the more disenchanted i became. The books gave me a pretty feeling while reading them but nothing of substance that i could remember long afterwards. My friends "loved the Lord" in their own little way but knew very little of the bible. I began to wonder why.

Indeed we are all running a race to obtain . . . but some are not really running, others are busy on a threadmill working up a sweat but going nowhere and many others are running with heavy weights tied around their ankles. It may seem like condemnation but its hard to wonder what the fate of 30000 people (including millions on the TV and internet) would be who are daily "nourished" on a diet of encouragement and motivation.
Paul said we should at some point in our christian growth desire STRONG MEAT and BONES . . . no child grows up on a diet of milk and mashed potatoes forever.

It is not enough to fill ur sermons with anecdotes, sweet tales of God's favour . . . the christian race is not a disney park ride of fun, laughter, family reunions and vacations . . . rather we are admonished to be good soldiers of Christ able to run the race that is set before us without the entanglments of this life.
In this age of everything NOW we no longer want to read about Godly sorrow, trials and temptations, warring . . . but that is what the bible describes as the christian race.

In our bid not to be too hard or not to sound judgemental, we have slowly allowed sin to creep into our midst, our pastors now openly speak about their divorce as if it is of no consequence, pastors talk about open doors for homosexuals (never bothering to show them the error of their ways), we have persisted in the error of Balaam . . . taking God's silence as a liberty to bend the rules.
Balaam was in error YET an angel of the Lord was still speaking to him, infact God used him to bless Isreal . . . we all know how he ended up - a mad prophet. There must have been junior prophets too who must have patted him on the back for "doing God's will".

The truth is now too hard for the people to bear, we have watered down the truth so as to accomodate those for whom church is no more than a recreational center to assuage their feelings of guilt.
Our early apostolic fathers must be looking at our generation in amazement . . . they were crucified and beaten for the gospel . . . today christians are the toast of the town, evangelicals now have a powerful movement within the republican party in the US . . . in Nigeria our pastors are now highly sought after to bless the newly rigged-in president.
YET Christ said at His appearing it would be hard to find faith on the earth . . . was He lying? Arent our churches the largest auditoriums on earth today?

Hmmm . . . while men slept, the enemy came forth and sowed tares among the wheat . . . the question wont be about the gospel of condemnation on the last day, it will be whether u are part of the tares who should be bundled for the fire or part of the wheat to be gathered into His barn.
I want to be part of the wheat . . . its hard to tell these days as even the tares are so alike.

The Berean christians are a fast disappearing breed . . . they have sadly been replaced by the laodecian church. They are rich and full and have need of nothing . . .

its only a little PMA. Not bad eh.

Crunchy tackles, English grit . . . no wonder the English never win anything. They'd rather break another's leg than play the football.

Is it any wonder that most of these horrific leg breaks occur in the British isles. you'd think the Italians and Spanish play with iron cast legs or maybe its because defenders there know that defending is not about trying to kick the opponent off the park.

therationa:
You see my point about not understanding science. You have just made it. Tell me, can you stand at a scientific conference and say "I was not there so I cannot prove it" I beg-oh, go talk to you scientist mother and father make them teach you something.

how can you hypocrite then sit here and tell us that since we were not there the bible stories are false?

imhotep:
Another ex eventu explanation

The same accusation leveled against Prophesies in the Bible.

sometimes you wonder about their sanity at times.
They ask us to prove Noah's flood ever occured and here they are telling us about events that happened 65m yrs ago as if they were there and had any proof.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994797#msg1994797 date=1203973106]@ow11,
Exactly what is his point? Don't be deceived, God calls you the same way He directs you in your everyday life - the inner witness. Having people tell you it has to be grandiose isn't supported by the Bible. Accepted that may happen, but as Kenneth Hagin would say, "that it is supernatural does not make it God."[/quote]I'm not even sure you bothered to read my reply. I'll reproduce it here:

that in itself is an encounter. It is something that you don't just "feel", salvation is not somthing that you have always been . . . it is a concrete decision that you make at a particular point in your life. Not everyone will be struck by lightening on the road to damascus but salvation is not something you grow into either.

It doesnt have to be grandiose, mine wasnt. My dad's was, my mum's wasnt . . . God works with everyone is different ways.

That being said, i do not subscribe to the idea that "i have always believed".

Wow what a tale! I took time to read everything . . . it wasnt really long though.

There are some impressive writers in the house . . . i doff my hat ma'am.

Your story put me in a dilemma myself, shld you go for PJ or Olu . . . hmmm tough one there but i'd say this . . . keep ur options open. Right now i think you need to stay off a commitment for now until you are 100% sure that the next guy is going to be it. If not u'd be back to Tammy part II.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994762#msg1994762 date=1203972285]@4Him,

I would have considered attanding you "Condemnation Gospel Church", but those 2 words in bold are contradictory, or what do you think?[/quote]Depends . . . to those of us who believe - Christ is a precious stone and is become the head of the corner . . . to those who disbelief, that same stone is a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence. 1 Peter 2:7-8

nwando:
Brethren,it's not necessary to continue this.
Since I found out Pastor Joel apologised  for his statements,I'm satisfied.
It shows he has a teachable Spirit.
May God guide him and continue to teach him
let's pray for him and all men of God.

ma'am i'm afraid to disagree with you . . . it does not show a teachable spirit, it shows a devious spirit. The "apology letter" was a smart political move, he would have lost the support of many high ranking church leaders here in the US if he had refused to respond to such criticism.
The only change in the last 2 yrs is that he simply hasnt gone back for another interview . . . it is still the same spirit of lukewarmness.

Still the same false smiles, PMA messages, wordless sermons and pleasure seeking appeal to self worshippers.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994716#msg1994716 date=1203971378]@nwando,
That is why I said earlier that his use of the phrase "I don't know" is actually kind of a habit when he speaks. He used it several times in his interview. But of course, the ministry of condemnation will not like to take that into account.[/quote] i had to laugh at this point. Maybe i shld put a sign on my door today - Condemnation Gospel church!
The ministry of indulgence is also versed in the bible too . . . they have mainly isolated bible verses to explain away their reluctance to confront the lifestyles of their flock as long as the cathedral is full every sunday.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994716#msg1994716 date=1203971378]And by the way, what do you have to say about the scripture I shared in John 16 above? I am waiting for 4Him to explain it away.[/quote]i already did give my explanation.

ow11:
@4Him

I have a couple of questions for you.

1. You were going on how an 'encounter' is necessary to be born again. I want to ask , can't someone get born again by looking at his life, deciding this isn't the way to go and would like to live a life that pleases God? or must there be a thunderstrike or leprosy or many of those wonderful stories we read in the bible before the 'born again' is considered real?

that in itself is an encounter. It is something that you dont just "feel", salvation is not somthing that you have always been . . . it is a concrete decision that you make at a particular point in your life. Not everyone will be struck by lightening on the road to damascus but salvation is not something you grow into either.

ow11:
2. Concerning becoming a pastor, I'm not quite sure how that works but Is this 'encounter' a necessity for the call to be real?

My brother that is why not everyone can just jump on a pulpit and take the label pastor. Unless God specifically calls you then you have only succeeded in fooling urself. A man who takes up the added responsibility of leading the flock must have concrete proof of God's calling on his life.
It does not have to be a burning bush experience but it shld not be because ur father just begged you to do so either.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994630#msg1994630 date=1203969699]Salvation is knowing you are a sinner and accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. He does this at the end of every service and people get born again. How many are born again through your ministry of condemnation?[/quote]Perhaps none at this point but if the only thing that comes out of this is that people begin to read their bibles a little more then it would have been worth it. The ministry of indulgence isnt doing anyone any favors either.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994644#msg1994644 date=1203970143]@4Him,

Let me share with you something I'm sure you do not know. The only sin the world will be judged for is the sin of not accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Every other sin is irrelevant because that is not what will send them to hell. The only thing that'll send them to hell is refusing the shed blood. So when you go around preaching do not do this or that, you really stand the risk of having people who see their salvation as a work experience because they had to do something to be saved.
So you see, many messages of condemnation are actually not biblical.[/quote]Tayo-D, that is not a mystery. Accepting Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour is an admission that you know that ur lifestyle is wrong . . . it is impossible to be saved and continue to steal or lie or cheat or be a homosexual. That is why the bible magnifies the sin of unbelief higher than others.

My dad usually likens salvation to a common entrance exam. You cant be accused of failing ur JSS 3 exams if u never passed the entrance exam to secondary school in the first place.

Likewise you cant pass ur common entrance exams and then go sit down at home expecting ur SSCE certificate. You have to pass other exams too.

You say the messages of condemnation is not biblical and i wonder, but God condemned the people of Soddom and Gomorrah, God condemned the men of Nineveh until they repented . . . but Paul condemned the sin of homosexuality in romans . . . but the bible says the gospel of salvation condemns us of siin unto righteousness . . .

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994615#msg1994615 date=1203969289]@4Him,
You need to read and understand your Bible better. Maybe then, you will not be quick to make such ignorant statements. Here is the scripture you declare is in my own special Bible. Abi KJV is no longer relevant? Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?[/quote]my brother, i would encourage you to do the same. I am sick of reading scriptures twisted to read what they dont mean. What "goodness of God" was Paul talking about here?
Simple - His longsuffering, His patience with us who were wallowing in sin, His willingness to take our place on the cross . . . nothing to do with the false "goodness" that JO and his ilk promote.

It is certainly not the "goodness" that has to do with refusing to warn the flock of sin, not the "goodness" that "accepts everyone", not the "goodness" that shies away from condemning homosexuality, not the "goodness" that hopes to draw the people with motivational speeches . . .

Dont just stop at verse 4 simply because it contains the word "goodness" . . . look further down - 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.   12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994620#msg1994620 date=1203969385]@4Him,
So you are now the one that sees like God and can see the flock scattered on the hills? Your zeal is surely in the way of your judgment.[/quote]I simply quoted the bible there. I didnt say i was seeing anything.
I dont need to see, the bible is clear for all to see and judge whether the things that we see and hear from JO are of God or not.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994520#msg1994520 date=1203967705]@Jesoul,
I assume you meant to say a wolf in sheep's clothing. Please look at the major characteristic of the wolf that Jesus mentioned in John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. Do you see that? a wolf scatters the sheep. Is this something you've noticed with JO? Is he scattering or gatheirng? When he was in Minneapolis, he brought a lot of people together and many found a church home. This is not a wolf but a shepherd.[/quote]That is why the devil has changed himself into an angel of light. They have a form of godliness but DENY the power thereof.
God is not mocked for He seeth not as man sees . . . while we see the physical gathering of the flock He sees a flock scattered on the hills and mountains with no shepherds.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]@4Him,
Trying to dissect the guys words and repaint it dioesn't make you right.[/quote]the words are clear for all to see. If so many were concerned about those words that they had to write, call and email him prompting a belated appology letter from Joel Osteen that appeared on his website shortly after the interview and YOU do not see it then i have reason to show some reservations about your own beliefs. Sorry to say.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]Tell me, how many people did god force to be Pastors?[/quote]None.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]Even if God calls you, you have a choice to obey the calling or not. He made the choice to obey and be unique. In all honesty, I admire that a lot. He is not like many of our preachers who seem to be cookie-cuts from the same dough out of the seminary.[/quote]He made the choice to obey what? His father's pleas that he preach in his stead while he was on his sick bed? Where did Joel Osteen EVER tell us God called him to preach?

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]I so much enjoyed his father's style and preaching, and I just admire that he never tried to copy him. He is staying true to his message the same way Billy Graham stayed true to his. His ministry is diffreent quite all right, and I can undersand if you fail to embrace something contrary to your preconceived notion.[/quote]Sad . . . really sad my brother. WE dont have a message, Christ IS the message.
So what message does JO have that he is staying true to? Paul said if any preach anything outside that we have recieved then let him be accursed.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]I asked you to mention his fruits and you are dancing around the issue.[/quote]There is no issue to dance around, i cant find any fruits. If you know of any pls let us know.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]The clip I asked you to watch includ someone who said his father gave his life to Christ through JO's messages. Another talked about their family being brought together to pray for the first time because of his ministry. He was here in Minneapolis a while back, and some people came to christ through that meeting and are members of our church today.[/quote]No wonder. How easily are the elect decieved.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]Please share with us how many of such fruits you have through "David's blog" or the regular fit of condemnation you've done through nairaland.[/quote]If all JO had was a blog, i'd never say a word against him. When you stand before 30000 souls every sunday then you must know that you being weighed on the scales of the bible.
As for the "regular fit of condemnation" . . . i refuse to stand on the sidelines patting heretics on the back simply because i like their face.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]Haven't you heard that it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance?[/quote]Perhaps that is in ur own special bible. Godly sorrow worketh repentance is what is in mine.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]Haven't you read that I have come not to condemn the world but to save it?[/quote]The same Christ said he that believeth not is condemned already.
The way to save the world is not to refuse to tell them they are already condemned if they do not accept the pure, undiluted gospel of repentance.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]The truth is people know they are sinners.[/quote]and that is an excuse not to tell them the truth? Why then did Christ say if you dont eat My flesh and drink My blood you have no life in you?
He shld just have kept quiet and motivated them.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]They've live with their prutrid self for years and need no man to drive that point home.[/quote]they need the gospel to convict them of sin. Pls understand Paul's concept that you so deceptively manipulate.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=115214.msg1994506#msg1994506 date=1203967293]What they do not know is that God loves them where they are and has done something about it. It is this Gospel that JO preaches.[/quote]If this is the message that JO preaches and that YOU believe in then i stand bold to declare that you both are in error.

God did not pat Zacheus on the back and say "dont worry, God has done something about your sin".
Christ CANNOT behold sin, that is what i see in my bible.
Without faith it is impossible to PLEASE GOD, that is what i see in my bible.

God loves the world but He will not compromise His standard for a world that wants all the trappings of heaven and their best lives NOW without any spiritual responsibility.