₦airaland Forum

fanficgirl:
Nah lol, I'm Nigerian but this show just expanded to swahali so I asvertised.

Why do I think Swahili is overrated. There are other interesting Bantu languages.

Hati13:
Yeah

Ethiopians who know their language won't have trouble distinguishing the words since they know the language and its structure, but outsiders who are learning would have a harder time distinguishing double consonants and standalone letters.

KingSango:
Actually I'm more down to Earth and pragmatic than you will ever be. You are the one with Mars information done for ulterior motives. Simple treachery. Ile Ife is not a state, there is no Ile Ife Empire, no other Yoruba state, called Kingdoms, combined with Ile Ife to form an empire.

The Old Oyo was undoubtedly the greatest and most popular independent race in West Africa, indeed, Sub-Sahara. The Empire controlled many kingdoms in Yorubaland such as Sane, Owu, Egba, Ijesa, Ife, Ijebu etc. Again, I would to stress, Ile Ife is a town and has never ruled over other Yoruba states and kingdoms. Ile Ife is a sacred town and the worship of the Ooni is the worship of the Ooni ancestral chief priest who preserved and protected the town. The worship of the Ooni continues into the present life by worshiping the one sitting upon the stool by supposed destiny. The town of Ile Ife symbolizes the spot on Earth of Almighty Obatala's creation of the human race including the white race. Praise Almighty Obatala the elder brother of Oduduwa. Oduduwa is the great grand father of Sango who is the Alaafin. Sango worship is about the worship of the ancestral Alaafin's who kept sacred the stool of the Alaafin elder descendant of Oduduwa. All Alaafins are descendants of Oduduwa, Oraniyum and Sango by blood and spirit. Salute the great royal houses of Oyo. Ase. Love, Sango.

Oyo's influence can't be underestimated, however Oyo didn't rule over Ijebu, Ife and Ijesa. Those kingdoms were independent. Not all Yoruba were under the direct control of Oyo.

Hati13:
For example we represent "I"(standalone vowel) as "ena".

For example we represent "swimming"(double consonant) as "mewagnt".

They are written in Geez alphabet like this respectively:-

ok, so they are filled in.

MissIndependent:
Pls what is the meaning of Eyinju? Yoruba folks Pls help

Eyinju means eyeball.

Hati13:
It's difficult to usually spell Amharegn words correctly using Latin. If it's was our Geez, then there is no problem.

I know Ge'ez is an abugida using a character to represent each syllable like the Indo scripts, so how do you represent standalone vowels and double consonants?

genieluv:
Hmmm, holly Abuja n Lagos r unique in their own ways, so i see no reason for any argument. N centenary city Abuja is not being funded by the Nigerian govnmt, so u can take it easy please.
Thank God u mentioned Dubai, centenary city can make Abuja very much like Dubai if completed. Most of the building n constructions done in Abuja were primarily for administrative purposes. The fed govt has not done much to boost the economic capacity of the city n i think that is what they are about to do with the world trade centre n centenary city. So let's wait n see before passing judgements, dont u think?
Just like nowenuse, i thnk i have to say that i do not see the need for your grievances towards Abuja (m sorry if i sounded rude).

****N by the way, how do u measure the GDP of Abuja to ascertain it's economy? I have never seen a report on it.

I have no grievances toward Abuja. The bolded is what matters, as long as a single kobo from the gov is not going to that project, then it's fine by me.

genieluv:
Holly, Building Centenary city does not stop the Nigerian fed govt from continuing to develop other parts of Abuja, does it?~~~~Simultaneous development is the best! Infact, i wish another of it's kinds of similar developmental project be added to Abuja.

>>>>The national city which unites all Nigerians together deserves all the best it can get.
I also don't see how building centenary city is stopping or slowing down the development of other sectors of the country<<<<

Abuja "uniting" Nigerians?
Fair point, it is a cosmopolitan city after all. Abuja is a unity city, it doesn't necessarily unite Nigerians. I just dislike it when people call it a no man's land when it's not, but yeah it's a cosmopolitan city.

I get what you mean by simultaneously, but if there is even a little bit of extra money available, it should be pumped into the economy and upgrade of already infrastructure. Why can't they implement the idea of centenary city in Abuja itself? There is the mil tower, national library, and cultural museum they've been building for more than a decade now.

Nowenuse:
Your grievance is completely misplaced.

Abuja has every potential in displacing Lagos as the economic capital of Nigeria. But it just cannot happen overnight. Lagos was capital of Nigeria for 65 years. Abuja has not been capital for up to half that period.

You wanted the federal govt to continue investing in Lagos or what? I don't understand you.
Don't be too hasty to judge the viability of centenary city. Wait until it has been achieved and see if it will not boost Abuja economy.

*No, my reaction is not misplaced.

Age is not the main factor in economic development.
New York city was the capital of the US for just 5 years (1785-1790) until a new capital, Washington was drafted and planned becoming the capital from 1790 till present day, which is more than 200 years so far now. But you know what, even with that age, New York is still the commercial and financial capital of the US till today.

This case is very similar to Abuja. Abuja like Washington was founded as the administrative capital, and not as an economic capital. Lagos was established as a port due to access to the sea, similarly to New York which helped manufacturing and commerce grow. Although with some exceptions, artificial cities a lot of the time lack multi-economic purpose.

Why did I say this? A lot of the large cities we see in the world today have multi-economic functions. Lagos, New York, Tokyo, Sydney etc all have large ports for shipping, trade, industries, etc. Even cities that are landlocked like Johannesburg developed due to their economic platform like mining which created industries, finance, and later on tourism. What economic platform does Abuja serves? Abuja was not created to become the economic hub of Nigeria, it was founded for administrative purpose like Washington, Brasilia, Ottawa, Canberra etc. Today these cities are not the largest or the economic hub of their respective countries. There are of course notable exceptions like Dubai. Dubai even though artificially created, has many functions. It was created as an economic hub (financial and commercial hub) and not with an administrative role. That is why Dubai is not the capital of the UAE and Abu Dhabi is. Dubai as an artificial city especially in its grandiose nature created the identity which boosts its tourism.

Ok, as an investor, what niche will attract me to invest in Abuja as opposed to Lagos? What is Abuja known for?

I want the federal govt to continuing investing in Lagos?
I do not understand the nature of this question. When the federal gov was developing Abuja, so much money was consumed in development than Lagos. Lagos actually had decades of neglect following its glory days. It's not until recently that the state government started implementing
a master plan by creating different initiatives to drive growth and development.

shervydman:
well,....... maybe u should look at the advantages too.......

http://www.abuja-ng.com/centenary-city-abuja.html

I've looked at the advantages, it honestly doesn't impress me one bit. Why can they just turn Abuja into the smart city. Abuja CBD is not even yet completed and they are thinking of building another one. They can pretty much implement all that effort into Abuja. If the government have that much money to spend, isn't it more viable to invest that money into things that the whole nation can benefit from like education, health, and manufacturing. The smart city aspect can be well adapted to Abuja as it is, not build another artificial city. There are a lot of already existing cities who are taking the smart city approach: Amsterdam, San Francisco, and Stockholm are just a few examples.

shervydman:
why........ is it not good for the nation?

Abuja's role as the admin. capital has been realized. I see it as unnecessary and a waste of money, a white elephant project like the mil tower and many houses in Abuja. Many development projects in abuja have become abandoned. Many houses have been abandoned. There is no need for a building boom in Abuja as of now, that was the 1980s era when a lot of businesses located from Lagos.That era is now over. Despite the excessive money spent on Abuja, Lagos still remained the commercial/financial capital. I sure hope, the gov is not spending a single naira on that fake project. Also what viable use does it serve. It's just a waste of money. Eko Atlantic is trying to be the new financial HQ of Lagos, Konza city is trying to be the tech cap or Silicone valley of Kenya. Centenary city is even more ridiculous considering that it's supposed to celebrate the 100 year anniversary of Nigeria. Building a fake artificial city is not a way to do so, Nigeria's accomplishment should be visible in its development. Develop the country as it is, not waste money on a fake city with no purpose.

obaaderemi:
Any particular reason for this?

Abuja's role as the admin. capital has been realized. I see it as unnecessary and a waste of money, a white elephant project like the mil tower and many houses in Abuja. Many development projects, in abuja have become abandoned. Many houses have been abandoned. There is no need for a building boom as of now, that was the 1980s era when a lot of businesses located from Lagos.That era is now over. Despite the excessive money spent on Abuja, Lagos still remained the commercial/financial capital. I sure hope, the gov is not spending a single naira on that fake project. Also what viable use does it serve. It's just a waste of money. Eko Atlantic is trying to be the new financial HQ of Lagos, Konza city is trying to be the tech cap or Silicone valley of Kenya. Centenary city is even more ridiculous considering that it's supposed to celebrate the 100 year aniversary of Nigeria.Building a fake artificial city is not a way to do so, Nigeria's accomplishment should be visible in its development. Develop the country as it is, not waste money on a fake city with no purpose.

NairobiWalker:
Enugu means baboon in various Bantu languages including Kikuyu. Warri sounds like a Tanzanian saying Wali (Tanzanians when speaking Swahili replace l with r, I've never known why). Wali is the Swahili word for cooked rice. Gombe is the gigantic word for cow in Swahili. It means a really big cow. Sokoto is the word for twined. Kano means a small toe in various Bantu languages including Luhya.
Generally Nigerian city names would sound heavy funny to Swahili speakers - like trying to explain how a huge tanker rolled down a hill - like Maiduguri, Ogbomosho, Ogun, Abeokuta, Ibadan, Katsina, Kaduna etc.
Those are all I can tell so far.

Many of the names sound different in reality due to tonality and nasality found throughout most Nigerian languages and the Anglicization of the word.
For example, Enugu is an anglicized version of Énugwú.
These are common consonants in Nigeria that are very rare outside of West Africa/Africa in general. Many of the unique letters take on Anglicization for simplicity and some words, especially names of towns took on western pronunciation.

gb- ɠ͜ɓ (This is probably the most common, it's not pronounced g-b, it's a unique stand alone consonant like the rest of the list.
kp- kp (Similar to the first)
kw- kʷ
gw- ɡʷ
gh- ɣ
kh- x
rh- ɹ̝̊
ɓ- ɓ
ƙ- kʼ
BTW, that Gombe meaning was funny.

shervydman:
what we people don't know is that whenever a huge project is executed, it may not be the president/leader that initiated the project.... he may just finish it off, then people will shout heaven n earth.

the centenary city was actually conceived during his tenure to commemorate the amalgamation in 2014.
those rail-line was conceived by obasanjo in 2007 but couldn't initiate it before yar a'dua came later the same year and started off the course obasanjo laid.
industrialization is not a thing that comes simultaneously............it comes at different time, and that cant be attributed to only one person.

though, he did his own part like the steadiness of pms among others.
all of them are just work-in-progress!

I STRONGLY DESPISE THE CENTENARY CITY, including its motives and objectives.

Ersan:
Yes which i clearly stated is not same as conventional democracy and that north korea is in fact not a democratic country.


Yes, though flawed. I believe there are aspects of the north korean government that can be considered secular. The im.becile above said its an authoritarian government that is against all opposition which the pillock doesnt understand is part of my argument. Their stance in regulating religion is because they fear it may threaten the government, not that its religion in its entirety that bothers them.


You support imprisoning people like animals for years which i believe is inhumane

Ok,
As for the bolded, don't remember saying that. Also, some people don't believe adultery qualifies as a crime in the first place. I fit that box, although I still think it's wrong. If it were up to me, I would choose getting locked up like an animal for a while than getting stoned alive and I assume most people will agree. Dude, there is no way to justify stoning.

Somalia is a mono ethnic country yet rife with quarrel among clans. Love doesn't stem from brotherhood, brotherhood stems from love.

The problem with Somalia is due to clan tribalism, political instability, and terrorism. Yes brotherhood is a byproduct of love, although there is a ripple effect. My point remains that the unity is lacking and this is manifested in the frequent violence we see today.

Ohh yeah, its very far fetched that the oldest city in west africa is more populous than lagos. You people aren't even serious. Have you ever even been to kano? Just because lagos is overpopulated doesn't mean its more populous than kano. Lagos is a very small state, dont let population density fool you.

First of all, Lagos city has a larger population than Kano city. My comparison was between Kano state and Lagos state. Also, Kano is not the oldest city in West Africa. That title belongs to Dhar Tchitt and Djenne-Djeno. It's not the oldest currently inhabited city either, that title belongs to Aoudaghost. It's not even the oldest continuously inhabited city, that's Chinguetti.

Yes, i have never denied the accomplishment of the brits during their very long stint in western nigeria. They left a very capable economy in their hands and they are still beneficiaries of that. The west is still the most sustainable region in Nigeria.

Every region was "beneficiary" of British rule. The only difference that made the North different was the less acceptance of western education and the indirect rule. Nonetheless, agriculture, mining, and manufacturing were stressed throughout Nigeria including The North.

So when I mentioned '60s and '70s, you do realize that those decades were after independence right? The British were not in charge of the government. The Western region set its own path forward with implementation of universal health care and free education. The tallest skyscraper at the time was built by the will of local initiative of farmers.

Indeed, i agree. There should be an ethnic breakdown as well, though it wont change anything. Like i said, if youre trying to rally minorities its an exercise in futility, all we need is cooperation when need be and as far as i am concerned their number doesnt matter since our agenda remains intertwined.

First of all, I'll like if you would answer my question. If you don't want to, then simply say so. Lol, numbers definitely matter in the tense political atmosphere of Nigeria. I can't predict what the future holds, but we'll wait and see if numbers truly don't matter.

Ersan:
You questioned my usage of the word, that's the issue here.
then i didnt exactly take the bait now did i?
This would be true if this werent already the case.
I beg to differ, siblings kill each other all the time. Theres always going to be divides, be it sectarian or factional. This happens in every society. In the north we have a particular group of people frequently clashing with every other ethnicity, not that its always their fault but i believe if this issue can be solved then the occurrence of such clashes will be curbed.
No, i specified how your ignorance comes about. All misinformed people are ignorant but not all ignorant people are misinformed, we also have the uninformed. Here YOU fall victim of a fallacy, the fallacy of composition.
Juts trying to help you understand that there is no such thing as proper punishment because the thinking behind that too is subjective. A few centuries back death by sword is considered humane, today its considered barbaric, there are many factors that influence peoples decisions when in fact they shouldnt.
Lol! Fine, they'll be a census soon i think. i am excited not only because of that because i believe the north will finally boast enough numbers to not need any other geopolitical zone in the south. Soon we shall become even more powerful.
I try to familiarize myself with as many places/people as possible. I know plenty.
Yet you said egbiras dont dress like hausas, here we have the first egbira governor of kogi and he dresses exactly like hausas.
never heard of it.
What do you define as unjust? this is another subjective issue.
Okay.
But when you're ranting you're being too passionate. Different from being passionate about a subject after you've already developed a rational understanding which you clearly haven't.

I'm sure you and I could argue this for eternity, but let me just get these clear.
You believe "perceived democracy" is a type of democracy influenced by Soviet era communism; I don't believe in such.

I believe North Korea is not secular; You believe North Korea is secular.

You support amputation and stoning as a justified punishment for adultery because it's the only way to "rid the world of immorality"; I think both are very barbaric especially in this age and for those level of crime.

You think the North is unified; I don't think it is because it was an artificial creation by outsiders and not forged of a natural alliance which is manifested in the violence we see today. Siblings who truly love each other, don't murder each other.

*The thing you agree on is a census. I just hope this time, the data do not get manipulated with like last time when Lagos was reported to have less population than Kano. Also, what's wrong with the population figures as of now for the North that it needs the upcoming census to validate its legitimacy to be self reliant?
The Western region was self reliant in the '60s and '70s when the federal government was weak. It had universal health care, free education. It built the tallest skyscraper in Africa at the time and had the largest city in Sub Saharan Africa, had a thriving economy based on cash crop all free of oil money.

I don't care if the North as a whole has more population than the South, I want accurate ethnic breakdown including ethnic breakdown by state.
Last, what do you mean the census will make the North more powerful? Could you care to explain?

Ersan:
And the millions who stayed at home and did nothing? the same millions who voted this man into office in the first place? what about them? executive or not, republican lawmakers supported this ban.

You used "one of the most secular" implying the is truly a degree to secularism. You unfortunately deal with absolutes when it suits and revert to more malleable principles when they don't. shame! My argument has never been that the US isn't secular, you remain confused.

If it'll make you happy: *One of the few truly secular countries.

Why are you making it seem like the people who didn't protest are all bigots? You are very insincere. If you don't lick my foot, then you are my enemy.
Also, your first point does not draw away from the fact that there are bigots, I already made that clear, but the constitution protects religious freedom.

And you're shying away from providing an answer why? you brought up an irrelevant topic and i am asking you about your motives, if you dont have one we can both agree it was balderdash.

You simply got distracted by your own distractions, which is why you don't know why the topic was brought up. I don't care anymore.

You mentioned what their official name was and i told you why that is, i also explain to you why conventional secularism can be applied to the north korean state. My arguments dont rely on their official stance but rather in the manner in which they act. Just like you implied a degree of secularism earlier, north korea may not be as secular as other states but it is secular to a degree. It is however not in anyway democratic. Yet you are unable/refuse to understand these blatant facts thrown in your face. Shame!

Ok, since I've clarify my point back to square one. NK is not a truly secular country.

Ersan:
Why would you assume that given i previously complained about your writing style? I have been called nonchalant a few times in the past, never in a positive manner especially academically. Goes in line with the definition.

I knew it wasn't complimentary, but I wanted claim it as such. As for the bolded, you just revealed something about yourself.

Well it seems you don't have to try too hard, you've been doing a stellar job.

Word of advice; when using sarcasm, never leave yourself open to insults.

Never try to sound smart, you end up doing the opposite. Limit your writing to your understanding.

Sad, you still took the bait even though you knew perfectly what you were doing.

I made what i believe are valid claims and you stipulated that they fall prey to certain "fallacies". It is up to you to discredit them and make me understand, otherwise you're just making baseless assumptions.

Ok, let me put it in simpler terms that you may understand.
* You cannot say I belong to either or, only I get to make a call about my identity.
* You cannot force me to join a bandwagon either.
Those are the fallacies you made in your faulty reasoning.

unavoidable in every society.

You've confirmed my point, siblings don't kill each other.
Also, there is tribal violence in every society, but the magnitudes are different. Tribal and sectarian violence occurs in Nigeria more frequently and on a larger scale. The majority is in the apparent "unified" North.

We can and we have. Your low pitched protests are irrelevant. You should feel blessed to be a part of the great white north.

Who are "we" lol?

LOL , who are you fooling? All you had to do was replace and with or. You corrected your own mistake without even knowing.
Let those two statements sink in. Jeez!....

"Lying is something the ignorant or misinformed do."
"A misinformed person is actually ignorant fyi."
Both of these were your quotes, the second quote was your attempt to "correct" what I said. They contradict each other.

Physical violence isn't my thing and people don't always get what they deserve.

Lol yet you defend stoning and amputation. You know stoning is just like amputation, it's more human, swift, more guarantee of redemption.

I grew up in kaduna, been to every corner, dont even bring up that half and half BS to okay? Don't insult me like that.

HALF OF THE LGAs are owned by the indigines. In my book, it's half and half until a proper census is carried out.

I have never heard of this justification for kwara let alone kogi.

I guess you are not as familiar with some of the "Northern states".

Is the current governor not an egbira man? i have never seen him wear anything that resembles a yoruba attire.

He's a politician, not representative of the general public. My point is an Ebira traditional wear differs from an Hausa or Kanuri.

I have eaten ekoho before, isnt it that stick soup. Like i told you, i am very acquainted with the north central.

What about ekuru?

And who are you to determine whats barbaric or not?

A human being,
I see any unjust act as barbaric. Simple as that.
Also, this is the reason why many people lash out against muslims.

Its no coincidence that you used the word passion. Again, don't insult me like this.

Everything is wrong with passion in a civilized argument which i hope this is. When feelings and subjectivity influence your thoughts then it means you're not able to think right. There's everything wrong with subjectivity in this context.

Actually that definition I put up was not from google definitions but from oxford dictionary.

Also I beg to disagree, you can be passionate about a topic without influencing your thoughts. A great argument is an argument that has facts and is driven by passion. A great rhetorical argument uses pathos, ethos, and logos. Pathos deals with appeal to people and emotions.

Ersan:
The fact that it was considered and is still being considered discredits any outrage. The fact that the majority of their lawmakers support this, the fact that if it weren't for a few brave judges, this law would have been passed shows you the true color of the country. Don't be deceived by the false picture the liberal media and movie makers show you, that country isn't what it portrays itself to be.

Yes, it's easy for you to discredit tens of thousands of people who poured out for protests in airports across the country, thousands of protesters who marched in unfavorable weather conditions and hundreds of lawyers who stormed international airports to personally take cases of families affected free of charge. It's one of the most secular countries in the world. Also, Trump didn't go to the lawmakers, he had to use the executive order which has no limit because, because it's suppose to be used for emergencies. Executive orders that violate the conastitution are put on hold and a court case is brought up. The US is still secular. Any form of religious discrimination is outlawed. Until, you can offer me concrete example, then this case is closed.

Let me answer it for you myself then, it was pointless.

Did I asked the question?
You asked the question, not me.

My first statement to you was that malaysia was islamic but democratic and north korea was secular but not democratic was it not? We're you not the person who tried to complicate the issue small fry? You seem utterly confused.

I guess we are just going to ignore your lies.
I think you are confused one the moment you start mentioning "percieved democracy" otherwise you won't have lied twice.
"Perceived democracy in Korea and most of asia is influenced by the communist soviet idea of democracy which is different from conventional democracy."

MtuMsuper:
Some others include : Olu/Oloo, Agumba, Omoro... still compiling.
its scary how these names are so similar. In fact, my high school principal was called Amadi(may he RIP). Any kenyan reading this should know where i schooled! Could the meanings be the same? Who 'stole ' whose names or are we just lost relations wandering about the African continent, and assigning ourselves strange adjectives like Kenyan or Nigerian? A matter for the experts in African history like 9jakool.

Interesting...
What do okoro, olu, amadi and olubayo mean in Kenya?

Ersan:
"Behaving in a calm manner, often in a way that suggests you are not interested or do not care"


Saying this about the way you write is a compliment? Funny thing is you think "nonchalant is a big word, googled it and got confused. Like i said, English is your problem.

Nonchalant is used as a compliment and no, who told you I had to look it up lol. To me, it means calm and unconcerned, it does not have a negative connotation, so yes I claim it as a compliment.

Now here's a person trying to sound smart. FYI stating isn't enough, you have to explain how it applies to the argument at hand.

No sh*t Sherlock, I'm trying to sound dumb.

I thought you already knew. If you need to know, look it up on your own.

Attack?

You know, inter-ethnic violence, religious strives, etc.

Actually, we have. Willingly or not, that region must submit. That's not a choice.

I REPEAT! YOU CANNOT FORCE AN IDENTITY ON ME JUST LIKE I CANNOT FORCE AN IDENTITY ON YOU.

I said, trying to narrow down your manner of ignorance. Keep up....

LOL , who are you fooling? All you had to do was replace and with or. You corrected your own mistake without even knowing.

You ought to be slapped just your that bolded comment. Half and half in your mums village yeah? LOL! Don't even!

I bloody dare you to come slap me.
If its not half-half, then what is it then? I know half of the LGAs are occupied by minorities.

And how exactly did hausas or fulanis interfere in these other states? why blame us for that? I have never heard of kogi agitating for the south west. Kwara Ilorin belongs to yorubas, regardless of how they dress of the fact that they have an emir, i agree.

It doesn't concern hausa/fulani. I simply said you all don't want restructuring. Kwara was always in contention as a Yoruba state. I was talking about its agitation to be included in the same region as other Yorubas. There is similar agitation in Kogi state.

A kanuri dresses like every other northerner, so yes. I have met a lot of egbiras who dress that way. I am very well acquainted with minorities see.

As to your other points, granted there are certain variations, it doesn't fully affect the picture as a whole.

The traditional Ebira attire is similar to Yoruba's attire. Many ethnic groups in the "North" have their own attire. The variations are enough for me.

And ewww, miyan kuka? seriously? when did it become standard that hausas eat miyan kuka? On a general note, we prefer miyan taushe and others to kuka, FYI.

Lol, I don't know when it became the standard that Hausa eat miyan kuka...maybe because it sounds like Hausa and you all eat it? Frankly, I don't care if it tastes like poo, the point is a Benue or Kwara man doesn't eat that stuff just like an Hausa man does not eat okoho or ekuru.

I will damn well defend it. it is the only way of ridding corruption and immorality from our lands and cleansing the perpetrators before they meet their Lord.

FYI, like i also said earlier. I believe prison terms are barbaric.

The bolded is all I need to know. This is the reason why bigots attack Islam when there are still people who believe in stoning in this age.

Small fry, for the umpteenth time, you're wrong. Jeez!

It seems your google definitions failed you again


A rant is actually fueled by feelings and passion, that is why we disregard it because it is very subjective. Like you said you have "genuine passion"

In case of next time, impassioned does not mean what you think small fry. It seems i was right, English is one of your problems.

Admittedly that definition of rant I gave was wrong and I take ownership for that mistake.
Who told you I'm using google definition?
My point was satirical in nature, and yes it was subjective and driven with genuine passion, which is totally fine.

Ersan:
A country that just voted a government that promises to bring back christian values, which then proceeds to attempt to block certain nationalities of muslims from getting into their country is not favoring christianity. Muslims and even jews have been denied political posts because of their religion, does that happen to christians?

Why do they refer to their former president as a muslim in a derogatory manner? would he have become president if he were?

You don't even know what you are saying, allow it.

Let's get one thing clear, yes there are bigots in the USA and not everybody is a bigot. Yes, Trump signed the executive order that banned nationalities from Muslim majority countries from entering the US. But you know what, many people protested and his action was ruled unconstitutional by the US court. If the US was not secular, then the ban wouldn't have been declared unconstitutional. Try again.

just say you don't know.

I can't keep going back into the thread to keep searching for quotes you know. You asked the question, so go back.

You clown!!! i never called south North korea democratic, you did.

By South, I guess you mean North.

Do you even pay any attention at all?
Did I say you called North Korea democratic? I didn't ask that question. Let me actually quote what I said before you start spinning your usual lies.
"You however, have manage to bring in North Korea, "percieved democracy" which is not recognized as a brand of democracy, and my "paragraphs" into the conversation."

Do you see why we use commas to separate one idea from another?
Also did I called North Korea democratic? Nope! Here's what I said.

"In fact, the full name of North Korea is Democratic People's Republic of North Korea. If we were to use North Korea's definition, then it would be democratic too in additional to secular. But North Korea in reality is neither secular nor democratic. No one, except for NK would ever think NK is secular or democratic."

Wow, you are on a roll with your lies today!

Ersan:
*sigh

You keep missing the point of your own arguments. You claim one thing then immediately readjust your claims to suit your end.

Is the US not a secular state? Does is not favor Christianity over other religions? Unless what you're trying to insinuate is that there's no truly secular state.

Lol, if I'm missing the point then, answer my damn question. If you would have answer my question in the first place, then I won't have use a different example.

In a social sphere , you might experience discrimination, but the government protects against that. All sorts of religions are represented by the US government: Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Sikh, etc. On the other hand, the only religion the Korean government favors in representation is cheondoism. I want you to find me an instance where the government favors Christianity above other religions in America. Just one, I am waiting.

Then what was the point of bringing that up?

Go back and check why.

And at the same time it is easier for someone who is in their 20s than someone whos 18. Should we not eliminate all uncertainties and make it as easy as possible? should we not make something in the 20s the age of consent then? You should have the cohones to stick by an argument, staying on the fence is a sign of cowardice.

No, because by the time of 18, the risks should be reduced enough.
Also, I do have the cojones to stick by my argument. My main points are and always were democracy is a spectrum, Nigeria is more than a North-South divide, and a system of regionalism is needed in Nigeria. In reality, those points are reasonable. You however, have manage to bring in North Korea, "percieved democracy" which is not recognized as a brand of democracy, and my "paragraphs" into the conversation. All of these are distractions you've managed to sneak in. Every time, I have had to constantly rebut your laughable claims, but it only draws away from the main points of the conversation.

if you've taken anything i've said here as a compliment and have the audacity to question my diction then your condition is worse than i initially speculated.

I would like to know someone i am having a discussion with at least has some semblance of attentiveness.

Lol, I know I'm arguing with you, but you are just trying to cover the fact that you called my writing nonchalant in an attempt to sound like an intellectual and what not. I know it wasn't an intentional compliment, I just had to catch you on it. Yes I do have the full audacity to question your diction and I did exactly that. I think one of the greatest acts of cowardice is not owning up to your own mistakes. It takes humility to do so. You got schooled, so own up to it.

If you're not with the north then you're a southerner, simple as that. Its either your a member of the family or just everyone else. Everyone else in Nigeria may as well be a southerner.

Ohh yeaahhhh Madrid just scored.

BTW, No such thing as the "middle belt".

Let me point out the logical fallacies in what you said.
* False dilemma
* Argumentum ad populum

Also, last I heard families don't attack each other based on their differences.

Yes, you cannot coerce me into an identity. My identity is not up for you to decide.

A misinformed person is actually ignorant fyi. But thats another argument, one i have no interest in delving into. Lets just say you're both.

Yes, and I was simply responding to when you said "lying is something the ignorant or misinformed do."

Why would these states want any restructuring when they have full control over their affairs? Hausas and fulanis have no stake in these states, all we need is their support in unifying the north as a whole and so far they've done just that. Like i said, the north is a brotherhood.

It's much complex than that. How many non-Igala governors have governed Kogi state? How many Idoma have ruled Benue? Despite Kaduna being half and half, how many non-Hausa/Fulani have governed that state since civilian rule? How come there is agitation in Kwara and Kogi to join the South west by Yorubas against the British demarcation line of North and South. What about the agitation for Apa, Savannah, Gurara states? The North like the South was never a unified entity to begin with.
I am going to quote your earlier post.
"We operate as a single political entity, with similarities in every aspects of the way we live from cuisine to dress code. This is why it is no bother for a man from katsina to successfully become a governor in kaduna."

This is far from the truth, tell me where in Kwara or Benue they eat Miyan Kuka? Does an Ebira man dress like a Kanuri? Don't even use that example of the governorship in Kaduna, you know well inside it's very insincere. It's not like the same ethnic group found in Katsina form a significant proportion in Kaduna. In comparison, what ethnic or social obstacle will a man from Oyo face if he were to run in Kwara? If that wasn't enough, both the incumbent and the new governor both come from the same ethnic bracket and religion, so there was almost no nuance for solidarity in Kaduna except for the simple fact that the political parties were different.

I agree, i always feel as a muslim you should have the compassion to never stand as a witness. You should also have the wits to never get caught. There are many instances of pregnant non married women in the north, i have never seen one stoned.

Whether or not you get caught, no one deserves stoning. I don't care what your religious affiliation or political stance is, it's simply barbaric. I wasn't talking about pregnant women specifically, but women who had children out of wedlock. In a case like that, stoning has been used in Northern Nigeria. Don't even attempt to defend it.

I ignore rants. I can only engage in sensible arguments.

There's this quote about idi.ots dragging you to their level and beating you with experience. That won't happen.

All I see it as not being able to face an argument, but deflecting away from it. I was not "ranting," I was using satire to point out the irony and hypocrisy in your argument. See a rant lacks passion. What I had up there shows my genuine passion through my deliberate use of tone, quotation, capitalization, and questions. This is a subject everyone likes to avoid, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist because it has real life implications for the people involved and perception.

Ersan:
I am truly sorry but i have to point this out to you. Frankly, I do not think you're a very smart person. It seems for some reason you cant understand the simplest of statements.

What i know about north korea... Small fry you've never even met a north korean in your life. Unless you can prove Jucheism is a religion or favors any particular religion then you have no idea what you're talking about. All sorts of myths about their supreme leader (the dead one) are taught in their schools. North korea couldn't care less about religion, they do this to instill love and fear into their people and ensure their subjugation.




My God. What is wrong with you? And this whole topic isn't basic political science? What fits into secularism (a set ideology) or not?




You would know. You've absolutely lost the plot small fry, thats if you had it in the first place.

First of all, I'll appreciate if you would answer my original question. It's a yes or no question.

Second, my claim is even though North Korea call itself democratic and secular, it doesn't behave like a democratic nor a secular country. North Korea does favor a religion. Cheondoism is often regarded as the national religion by North Korean government because of its history. It's the only religion that's favored by the government as it receives political representation.

So how do you measure that? Lmao! You keep shooting yourself in the foot.

This is not about measuring adulthood. I already said 18 fits the minimum requirement. Also, this is different from the age of consent.

Exactly, stop saying rubbish. You have no idea what you're talking about.


I admit misunderstanding on my end here, mostly because of your nonchalant way of writing which i have warned you multiple times about.

That still doesn't hinder my inquiry. Does the fact that it stops growing in the 20s means age of consent should be somewhere in that region?

For your question, that wasn't what I was talking about. What I was highlighting wasn't that 20 should be the age of consent, but simply that development is still taking place, meaning that something like pregnancy would be especially difficult for someone who is 15. Didn't you get that?

Yes, I'm very nonchalant in my way of writing that even my opponents start to compliment me without even knowing it.

Just a heads-up, if you don't know the meaning of a word, next time don't use it.

All you southerners are the same to me.

And who exactly told you am a Southerner? Lol

Lying is something the ignorant or misinformed do. I have never intentionally commented any falsity lie on this forum. You on the other hand lie on just about every post especially because most of the things you type here is absolute rubbish and you need all the help in the world to back your moronic claims up.

And I guess you are either ignorant or misinformed.
"I lie because I say 'rubish.'" I think I need a little more evaluation, because that doesn't really prove anything.

Just stop it, okay? Until we start shouting for restructuring then we don't need it, we are absolutely fine.

Of couse Hausa/Fulani don't want reconstruction. Southern Kaduna, Kwara, Kogi, Benue, etc all want reconstruction. By we, then Hausa-Fulani are absolutely fine.

And i pointed out that if you're stupid enough to get caught then maybe you deserve to be stoned.

I simply implied that people come here so they can meet others who appreciate their foolishness. If you think you fit the profile that's on you, not me.

The bolded says it all. No one deserves to be stoned. The second part is an oxymoron.

You know what, you're right.

Let me simply ignore your rant.

Lol, ignore me. When you can't face me in an open debate, simply ignore. It's a defense mechanism.

Ersan:
So now you're accusing jucheism of being a religion yeah? *sigh

I never said that. Go back and show me where I said jucheism is a religion before you start making false accusations. I'm certain that you didn't even know what it is prior to this hence you won't be saying North Korea is secular. All I'm saying is that jucheism ideology is not a secular. Also why are dodging my question? Would you mind bowing to the statue of the "supreme leader" and worshiping him ?

Maths is complicated, doesn't mean 1+1 isn't simply equal to 2. Some things are too trivial small fry.

Just stop. Also, you learn math as a child including that basic arithmetic up there. Political science is a higher level course. Also, Math is generally is either wrong or right. The whole point of political science is to not attain a set definition, but to arrive at multiple schools of thoughts.

SMH, you use brain growth as your measure, i could use puberty which is a much more reliable and sensible measure (see? subjectivity) which for females starts at 9-11 and ends at 14-17 at most. God made nature, nature has order, puberty signifies sexual maturity. In my opinion once a person completes that then he/or she is no longer a child.

Thats neglecting the fact that the size of a persons brain has absolutely NOTHING to do with intelligence.

Shake your head all you want. Just make sure you don't shake it for too long because you don't want what's left of your common sense to leave.

Puberty is one way, but it's not perfect. Nature does have order, but it's not up to nature alone, there is also idea of nurture. Factors like environment, stress, diet, and body weight can affect puberty. Those are independent factors that can affect the puberty process including age. Adulthood is so much more than your ability to reproduce or sexual maturity. Adulthood also comes with emotional and mental maturity.

It's brain growth, not brain size. Neurons making new connections, further mylenization of white matter, and other things of that nature. Ahrrgh, why do I even bother?

And as to your claims about the female pelvis' full expansion, you couldnt be more wrong. The female pelvis fully expands between the age of 25-30. Maybe that should be the age of consent yeah? smh. And if you've ever had coi.tus (seriosuly? this word is censored? wtf is wrong with you people?) with a girl younger than 25 you're a pedo.phile and a rapist.

This is either the epitome of intellectual dishonesty or you're just throwing sh.t on the wall and hoping something sticks. Its comical.

For the bolded, again you don't have to invent lies. This is the second time in one post alone. Go back and check what I actually said before you jump into conclusion.

"Wtf is wrong with you people?" Last I check, I'm not the one in charge of NL so stop your projections, you are just frustrated.

After lying twice in a single post, turns around and shouts dishonesty to the other person. It's not comical, it's simply sad maybe even a bit hypocritical.

It's not that simple, some regions are sandwiched, others undefinable, you cant just go about creating chaos. The north is the north and will remain the way it is and always has been. Period.

Ok, how about this the parts that can be divided or restructured will be and the parts that can't be will be left alone.
This is the real matter for this discussion in the first place.

Hanging isn't violence yeah? electrocution isnt violence yeah? It seems you are too thickheaded to grab anything, stating your opinions is different from instilling your opinion. You are free to express whichever brand of epic stupidity you choose to, that's what forums like this are for.

We are not talking about hanging or electrocution and I'm not going to talk about them. You just want distractions. That's what you've been doing all along. We are talking about stoning as an inhumane punishment in relationship to something like having a child out of wedlock. You already said amputation for theft is justified, so I've moved on to stoning. Also, thank you for your ad hominem remarks. You are just revealing your true sides. It's alright though, people bring out the worsts in people.

Now you're just ranting. What i can pick up is your criticism of accused lopsidedness in punishment. Just so you know, the punishment for a man and a woman is exactly the same. Besides, you'd have to be pretty stuupid to fall victim of such punishment anywhere in the world. You should read the requirements...

You know what, you are right, let me go back and rant some more.

"Can you tell me more about the perceived democracy you speak of? I'm not really sure everyone is equal."
"So every one is not equal, but someone told me everyone is equal."
"You mean the man is not subjected to the same burden of proofing a child is not out of wedlock. What exactly do you mean?"
"Ok, so only the woman has to show proof meaning that only the woman gets stoned in this instance."
"But how?"
"The persecutor has to have four witnesses. But what happens in this case if the persecutor can't provide the witnesses?"
"What? The man is let go, but not the woman."
"Ok, so the woman is stupid so she deserves stoning."
"Ok, I now understand the perceived democracy you speak of."

genieluv:
Kk.
Buh i think you sometimes speak with so much authority on historical issues. Are you a professor?

As much as only a few people have established the Tiv origin from Congo, no one has come out to disprove them either. A white historian established it in the 30's and some few Tiv professors have also supported this with their research. As of today, this is the predominant school of thought among Tivs. So, really, who are we to question them about what they choose to accept about themselves?

Muafrika2 has listened to your video on Tiv language and you can see that apparently he could pick some words from the video (which i believe to be correct). I don't know of any Tiv person on nairaland who i can tag to confirm, i will try to ask some tiv friends of mine to confirm when i have the chance. Perhaps MtuMsuper n others will give a try.

The Congo theory is misleading. There are no Bantoid languages spoken in Congo. The Bantu original homeland is still Cameroon. I don't really care how the Tivs identify. I am speaking about their language. It's Bantoid in nature. Bantoid languages originate in Cameroon-Nigerian border, so there is that. Bantoid language is one of the linguistic evidence used to link the Bantu migration from West Africa theory. If Tiv migrated from Congo, then that theory is completely thrown in doubts. Think about it? Bantoid languages are very old. The Bantu languages are derived from the Northern Bantoid languages of Nigeria-Cameroon area.


ALL BANTU LANGUAGES ARE BANTOID BUT NOT BANTOID LANGUAGES ARE BANTU.

Let me make you a diagram

Most of the languages in Africa belong to the Niger-Congo family.
The largest subdivision under this are Atlantic-Niger languages.
This is further broken down into another subdivision of language groupings, the main ones being Volta-Niger and Benue-Congo.
Volta-Niger contains language groups like Idomoid, Yoruboid, Igboid, etc. My main focus is the latter group, Benue-Congo.
This group is broken down into Platoid and Bantoid-Cross River.
Bantoid-Cross River is further broken down into Cross River, Southern bantoid, etc.
Southern Bantoid is the broken down into Tivoid-Beboid, Ekoid-Mbe, Bantu, etc. This is where the split happens.

Languages classified as 'oid' of another language does not necesarily mean that they will have same counting words or so many similar words. The similar words may be as few as 10% and only exist in a section of the vocabulary which you may not know. Imfact, the vocabulary may be almost 100% different buh the structure n lexicon of the language remains the same. The linguists who carried out these classifications were professionals who definitely used many criteria to judge.

Do you want to know why I especially use the numerical systems?
Very basic features like numerical systems, family units, body parts, farm verbiage etc are very primitive, less likely to evolve and aren't complex ideas that evolve quickly. The basic features usually are less subjected to change and when Linguists look for relationship, they are the first go-to. Take for example, Yoruba and Igbo have evolved to be very different and they are not mutually intelligible, but if you look at the words for body parts, you would start to notice the relationship and see similar cognates. Even though Yoruba, Ebira, and Igede are very different languages, a way to determine historical relationship is to look at their numerical system and you would see some similarities. This is what I did.

Any affixes like -oid or -ic, are used in language denotation. You have -ic in Semitic, Afro-Asiatic etc which comes from Latin, although there is a Greek equivalence (ikos). -Ic means having some characteristics of. Oid is derived from Greek and it means resembling or behaving like. Oid is never use to equate one thing to another or for the same. Let me show you an example:

In Nigeria, you have Yoruboid branch. This branch includes Igala, Yoruba etc.
Igala is a Yoruboid language, but that that doesn't make Igala the same as Yoruba.

You have the Northern Bantoid branch. This branch include Bantu languages, Tivoid languages, etc
Tiv is Southern Bantoid, but that doesn't make Tiv the same as Bantu.

Take for instance, there are languages like Alago n others in Nasarawa state that are classified as Idomoid languages buh i have asked my mother n others who speak Idoma well (cos i sadly don't ) and they asserted that some of these so called Idomoid languages are no longer understood at all by Idomas. The languages have so diverged that the best an Idoma speaker can do is pick 1 or 2 words when those languages are spoken. And u can imagine that Idomas n these Idomoid ethnic groups are still even close to each other geographically.

The very few words you can pick out aren't the only words that are shared cognates. Linguists determine cognates based on patterns not just mutual intelligibility alone. Lexical intelligibility of these cognates are often more similar than in the spoken form. You also have the issue of tone changes which can change the mutual intelligibility of a tonal language. A Spanish speaker maybe able to understand 40% of what a Portuguese speaker is saying. However in written format, this could jump to 90%.

Now, u can't compare Tivs who are the farthest away west of the Bantoid speakers with Bantu languages as far as Kenya. I think you should instead try comparing Bantoid n Bantu languages in Cameroon who are immediate neighbours and i believe you will be shocked at the similarities you would find.

That comparison was actually a mistake on my part. Yes, the Bantoid languages which includes Bantu languages in Cameroon are the closest, which throws out the Congo story.

****Personally, i think Bantoid speakers are the closest relatives/representatives of the Bantus at the period the Bantu expansion started. They must have decided to move westwards and definitely intermixed with other neighbouring aboriginal groups which probably diluted their Bantu features to an extent leaving them as BANTOID****

- Bantus are Bantoid. Bantoid is a larger group consisting of Bantu, Tivoid languages, Ejagham languages, etc. Bantoid is not a diluted version of Bantu. Sorry if I didn't explain this better originally. Bantoid consists of many language groupings of which Tivoid, Ejagham, Bantu, etc are a part of.

Ersan:
Frankly this whole debated can just be summed up as that for both parties.

Your loss! I don't care.

A secular state is an idea pertaining to secularism, whereby a state is or purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.

I guess the ideals of jucheism is secular by you. As part of North Korean nation law, you must recognize former Korean leader Kim Il-sung as the "supreme deity for the people." You know what, you are right, this is a state being neutral. In fact, I'm sure you won't mind worshiping the statue of the "supreme leader."

Stop making things too complicated. You can't accuse north korea of supporting one religion over the other, period.

Oh what? Who could have guess? Apparently, political science is complicated. It's not like people major in this field or anything...What is that? They do? So, it's complicated. Nahhhhhhhhhhh.

There are 18/20 year olds still in school. Point is if you can't prove she's a child then you can't point fingers at him. Besides, at which age does a person stop being a child? Thats another subjective issue see...

What, we are going to speculate on the slight possibility that the girl may be at least 18. Then again, the guy also advocates for underage marriage? That for me alone marks the red line.

You see Ersan, age for adulthood is not as subjective as you may think. According to science, your brain stops growing somewhere in the mid 20s with 25 being average. 18 is pushing at the bare minimum, so sorry if you like underage marriage, but it's not compatible with this day and age. For girls, you also have higher risks for developing cervical cancer, contracting STDs, and having deaths during childbirth. There's also the issue of pelvis expansion. The female pelvis fully expands by 20s. The reason for this is to reduce complications during childbirth which could lead to fistula. Teenage pregnancies have a high risk of miscarriage/still birth since the baby pelvis is too narrow for the baby. The baby could become stuck and hence why someone could be in labor for days or up to a week. This leads to fistula openings in the digestive and urinary tracks.

Whose human rights? what is human rights? how much rights should a human be afforded? which human has the authority to decide that? Subjectivity makes every argument inconclusive in my opinion.

Look at the universal definition.

There is conflict even between mono ethnic regions. The north is the north, that is all.

Ethnic conflicts within the same ethnic groups happens everywhere, so no excuses. In fact that same thing you said is in addition to the conflict zones I listed earlier is why the North is not as simple. Redraw and adjust the borders, move away from British demarcation and maybe, the power struggle we constantly see in the political, ethnic, and sectarian arenas would be lessened.

Thats not very nice.

Grow a thick skin "small fry."

Throughout this whole argument the only theme we agree on is how much opinions and feelings influence ones view of everything.

In the end my objective is to learn as many point of views as possible, not try to instill mine into the minds of others because in most cases its an exercise in futility. We can simply agree to disagree....

You know what, you are right. I should learn to understand why a state would use violence against its own people. Maybe I should learn opinions of murderers and horrendous people, as they have very contrasting values and opinions from me. Maybe, I shouldn't tell people how bad their horrendous practices are because I'm trying to respect their opinion, because you know that will be instilling mine into the minds of others and I don't want to do that.

..........

"Oh did you just stone that woman to death?"
"It's fine, I'm going to be very civil even though I clearly disagree and you don't see what's wrong with the fact that YOU JUST STONED SOMEONE TO DEATH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD."
"What did she do? Did she burned someone alive to deserve this "inhumane" punishment. See what I did there, I quoted inhumane.
You know why, because to some people stoning someone to death is actually a humanly thing to do as it is not inhumane at all."
"So she had a child out of wedlock. No way, so is the father stoned too?
"What? You mean he was released. Why?"
"Our system is "perceived democracy" where we say something and do the exact same opposite. You see in our democratic system, it's very special because everyone is actually not equal."
"Ok, that totally makes perfect sense."

REGISTERED!

Isahalbash:
You forgot to add " Yorubanization" too

What parts?

Muafrika2:
I submit to you, that there are strong similarities ...

Kamba tribe, Kenyan Bantu ...

Imwe, ili, itatu, inya, itano, thandatu, monza, Nyanya, kenda, Ikumi

Swahili:
Moja, mbili, tatu, nne, Tano, sita, Saba, nane, tisa, kumi

I bet I would somehow comprehend the language if I heard it being spoken

Very interesting. Bantoid languages have some similarities with Bantu languages. The Noun structures of Bantoid languages are different from Bantu, but a few very basic vocabularies have some similarities.
Are all Bantu languages comprehend able in spoken form?

How much of this can you understand?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Sd9ayp-Co

genieluv:
Cc MtuMsuper, nowenuse, muafrika2

I love your explanations 9jakool buh please can you try to put some summariness? Thanks.

First of all, in response to your second paragraph or first point, i'd like you to know that a good number of ethnic groups in Cross river north n maybe central do share Kwararafa origins e.g the Yalas, yaches, bekwarras, obubra n obanliku e.t.c.
There was a time a few years ago that traditional rulers from Cross river and other states of Nigeria went to Wukari to meet the Aku-Uka n confer their rightful ancestry to his kingdom.
Check the link below to confirm, the 2nd paragraph of the 1st page.

http://www.academia.edu/7007449/Origin_of_Kwararafa_Kingdom


Before i throw in a few explanations about the Tivs, i'd like you to read this link very well.

http://naijasky.com/benue-state/19/history-of-tiv-people/9455/

After reading this link, i don't think we need much explanations or arguments again to understand where you and i are missing it.

I was missing the fact that even though Tivs came from Congo, they did not come to Benue region of Nigeria immediately, they settled at the swem hills in present day Cameroon until it became overpopulated for them before they came to Benue, Central Nigeria and displaced we the kwararafan tribes.
You are missing the fact that they possibly came from somewhere before arriving the swem hills (in present day Cameroon).

I enjoy reading your links and you do have a good points.

Yes, I visited your links. What did i gained from this? I reinfirmed the notion that Tiv expanded from Swem hills in Cameroon. The Congo evidence is not widely supported. Out of the plethora of authors, only a very few confirmed that they asre indeed fom Congo. "Abraham (1934: 5) concluded that the Tiv were “real Bantu” suggested that Tivs migrated from Congo." Abraham based his description by selecting 67 Tiv words that he thought sound similar to Nyaza of Congo. Notice the use of "real bantu". The theory that they came from Cameroon is more supportred by their oral and archeology tyraditions than the theory that they came from Congo. Also Congo is a huge place stretching from Southern africa to Northern Africa and to Eastern Africa. The language he was referencing is spoken in a region all the way South near Zambia. The Congo evidence is so narrow and it's not as supported. Even this similarity does not change the fact that they are Bantoid. Bantoid languages have narrow similarities with Bantu, I've already established that. This is already touched on by Muafrika2. But they are classified as Bantoid and not Bantu by scientists for a reason right?

Another point we are having a misunderstanding is the issue of Tiv expansion and their expansionist nature.
It's unfortunate that you don't understand my explanation of Tiv expansion, that was why you were comparing Tiv expansion to Igala, Nupe, Edo or Yoruba expansion.
Hope you know that there are over a million Tivs in Nasarawa n Taraba states? Buh the Tivs in these states are not regarded or recognized as Indigenes by the other ethnic grouops in these states because these people all knew when the Tivs arrived.
We in Benue don't have such audacity because the Tivs are the majority here and their settlements in Benue are definitely older than those in neighbouring Nasarawa n Taraba states.
Tivs are/used to be the kind of people who will come to your community in peace looking for farmlands and once you have given them it is finished, they have the highest birth rate of any tribe in Nigeria or even Africa and multiply so fast. Within a short time they have already outnumbered you in your community and before your people can say jack, they have already had more settlements surrounding your community and if you try to fight them, you are most likely to loose the fight due to their large numbers. This was how they displaced most Kwararafan tribes and are still displacing us till date (only that civilization n education has reduced it to an extent).

This is the reason why you find Benue river Jukun n Etulo (Idoma speaking tribe) communities in the heart of Tiv land in Benue state, completely enclaved by Tiv communities. During the height of Tiv expansion when they displaced Kwararafan tribes, some like the Etulo n River Benue jukuns (who are mostly fisher people) and probably thought they could not do without the River Benue stayed behind, and this was how they were enclaved and cut off away from their linguistic sibblings. Today, most of them have adopted Tiv language, culture n identity and it's just a matter of few decades for them to be completely Tiv-ized.


If you want to study the history of a tribe, especially through the oral means. Another good way you can do it is by asking the neighbouring tribes of that ethnic group to give you some oral accounts about their neighbours.
I will try to find some online documents featuring oral accounts from Idomas, Jukuns, Agatus, Igedes, Alagos and all other ethnic groups neighbouring the Tivs.
Buh being from this area, i have had first hand oral history info from my own tribe and other neighbouring Kwararafan tribes on the Tivs and it is exactly the same story from every quarters about the Tivs being expansionists who came to their lands not too long ago.
If you want to confirm this, pls feel free to befriend any person from an ethnic group of Kwararafan descent in Taraba, Benue, Nasarawa or Cross river state.
Thanks.

I completely get it. Personally, that story of "Tivization" is very similar to "Hausanization" currently going on.

***It's unfortunate i accused your post of being too lengthy, while mine is no different . I apologize****

It's fine.

Ersan:
Perceived democracy in korea and most of asia is influenced by the communist soviet idea of democracy which is different from conventional democracy. It cannot satisfy any criteria of democracy and the fact that they call themselves that is very laughable.

North koreas idea of secularism is conventional in that it is not religious, granted there are certain incidents of persecution of the christian population which constitute a little over 1% of total population. This is mostly because they believe its principles pose a threat to the government.

Lol "percieved" democracy is sure right. There is only one definition. You are either democratic or not. I guess there's nothing wrong or non-secular about persecution of minorities.
Then again, there is no point arguing with you about this, you've made up your mind.

I disagree, a state has every right to set limits in order to make sure religion doesn't overlap its principles. This is true of every secular state in the world.

You know in your heart that what you just said is misleading.
Let me put it in right choice of words
* Yes, a state and any state for that matter has every right to limit religion pertaining with its principle.
* A secular state can regulate religions. Learn the difference between to limit and to regulate.
* A Secular democratic country can regulate religions so that the religion doesn't infringe on personal rights.
* A secular democratic country cannot persecute religious adherents by infringing on their personal human rights.

Which is why i said SOME people take advantage of this.

This is why such laws should not exist if people can simply "take advantage" of loopholes.

I know who you speak of but i wonder if you've ever seen this "wife" of his. You need to stop ingesting every load of bile the media puts out.

I guess you now speak out for the man now. He simply denies the girl was 13, he did not deny she was not a child. Even Egyptian officials say that the girl was still in school. He's also a defender of child marriage, that alone is disgusting in itself. What you should be doing is condemning his actions, not defending them.

Amputation is a lot more human. Swift, permanent and a much better guarantee of redemption. Plus, the person is marked for life so...

Says who? Not according to human rights org, it's not. I guess we are just going to skip over the stoning parts.

My claims are very simple, a state can be perfectly democratic and religious at the same time. Again, many countries in the world prove this. You delve too deeply and end up confusing yourself with tenants of constitution and other complicated aspects.

My claims still remain that democracy is a spectrum and.

For me i think the north is that simple. Like i said earlier, when you start to get to nitpicky, their geography and chemistry will betray you.

Until recently for whatever reason that maybe, even the "middle belt" was in fact an integral part of the north. This is why the north would have no problem staging a coup and handing power over to a middlebeltan.

Bolded is very important. The divide is becoming more apparent recently, however it was always histroric. Many ethnic groups fought in the MD belt against the domination of the Sokoto caliphate. Some were conquered, others were not. The constant ethnic violence is a manifestation of this. You have indigines vs settlers conflict. Tiv vs neighboring ethnic groups, Yoruba vs Northern demarcation, Fulani herdsmen vs indigine farmers, Igala vs neighboring groups, and middle belt vs Core North.
Who are you joking with, the North is not simple, hence you won't have so many inter-tribal and sectarian strives. The Northern identity was forged by the British. It was not a natural alliance to begin with.

Yikes.... paragraphs?

Deal with it.

You make strong points but you make a lot of mistakes. For instance, nupes definitely feel closer to hausas than they do gbagyis. Idomas and igalas will not get along in the same country. When you try to get too nitpicky you just create abominations.

I gave an example. I understand that is why I said specifically that "the situation may look well different from this, but something of a similar nature." I suppose you didn't catch that part.

I am not questioning your grammar small fry, i am merely suggesting that you try to make your posts easier to read. You compress everything into very long statements. Its very hard to read.

Long is relative. What's consider long to me is different to yours. I write how I feel comfortable. If you don't like it, then I guess it's unfortunate.

Nowenuse:
genieluv gave you a good explanation about the Tivs. I also agree with her.

Bantoid languages are under the Benue-Congo sub-group of the Niger-congo.
I don't see how that negates the Bantu origins of the Tivs, considering that the Bantus themselves migrated from that same Benue-congo region.

I think the Tivs obviously migrated eastwards to Benue axis of Nigeria from the Congo region at the time of the Bantu expansion.
As someone from the middlebelt too who has once shared the same state with the Tivs, it's true, most Kwararafan tribes neighbouring the Tivs describe the Tivs as expansionists and visitors to the Benue area. You don't know how much hatred many middlebelt tribes have for the Tivs until you visit Taraba, Benue and Southern Nasarawa. That Bantu expansionist blood runs in their veins and is part of their culture.

Jukuns and all Idomoid groups were neighbours before the Tivs came and cut them off. Infact the Agatus and Alagos (Idomoid groups) are still neighbours with Jukuns in Nasarawa state.

Of course, they expanded like many other ethnic groups, but I don't think it's from Congo. There is no evidence to support that. Check my explanation to understand better.

I have a series of unrelated questions. Do you think the Tivs would rather align with Hausa, prefer living under the Arewa/one North banner, would join the South or prefer a different region of their own?