₦airaland Forum

Hati13:
I was to answer you. I was late because I mostly answer in order.

The current map of Ethiopia regions were mostly created after the fall of Derg in 1991. The old Provence were abolished. There were Oromo speaking people in some parts of the old province of Shoa/Shewa and Wollo/Wello. After the fall of Derg, federalism based on major ethnicity was placed. The Oromos wanted that area to be included in their region, but the Amharas didn't want to allow that since it was there area. To solve this, the Amharas created Oromia zone for them under Amhara region.

Oromia region don't needs to be exchanged with Oromia zone of Amhara region. Oromia region has it's own different Oromia zones in it.

Here are the regions of Ethiopia after 1991. The last is the old provinces of Ethiopia before 1991.

ok, I got it.
Do you prefer the old provinces or the new regions?

Hati13:
True, but Nilo-Sharan super family language is currently is only spoken in Ethio-Sudan border.

Yes, very true.

Can you answer my question about the isolated oromiya zone in Amhara tucked between the Amhara and the Afar region. How did that happen?

PissedYagami:
Never forget Kenya. Luo is the largest Nilotic language. There are more Nilotes in Kenya than Sudan and Ethiopia

true, but yeah I'll say Luo is the largest Nilotic language. Although not Nilotic but Saharan, Kanuri is the largest Nilo-Saharan language.

PissedYagami:
Tbh thank you. I am learning so much more. I do know in Kenya they assimilated the Cushites, most of the native tribes, the Nilotes not so much, guess the Europeans arrived just in time else they would have been swallowed too. And there were khokhoi(that language group) people in East Africa. They were completely assimilated

Oh yeah, there were also "Khoisan like" groups in East Africa that use clicks. The last remnant of such are the Hadza of Tanzania.

PissedYagami:
Then Bantus got too be the greatest conquerors in Africa

They had iron tools. That's what made the difference

PissedYagami:
I see but I doubt that. Most Bantus in Kenya came from the South. Maybe Bantus in Uganda and Western Kenya are mixed with Nilotes. But Nilotes are very old, it is believed they migrated southwards from ancient Egypt

The reason why I said that was because Bantu displaced the local populations in East, Central and South Africa. in East Africa, they displaced the Nilotic population as well as some Cushitic populations. In Southern Africa, they displaced the local Khoisan populations. One of the primary way for displacement was assimilation.

PissedYagami:
But I dont think Nilotes(Sudanic people) were Kushites, or were they?

Nubians of Sudan-Egypt, most people in the Gambela region of Ethiopia, and most South Sudanese and Kunama and Nara of Eritrea are Nilo-Saharan not Cushitic. Even Bantus in East Africa most likely have Nilotic ancestry.

Hati13:
Yes, but not Nigeria Shewans lol. I'm not only north Shewa Amhara, but also Wag Hemra Agew(from my mother side).

Here is the map of North Shewa and other Amhara zones in Amhara region.

What's up with that oromiya zone in Amhara?

fanficgirl:
Yes, the Kingdom of Kush were definitely Nilo Saharans. I don't understand how it expanded to mean people generally from the horn.

It's a refrence to a general area. Not all of modern day Sudan is Nubia. The coastal part of Sudan is largely occupied by the Beja and they speak a Cushitic language. Cush is just a derivative of Kush, not that Kush is Cushitic

ednited:
I hope too. Aliko Dangote is clever. . .he's getting much $ here

I have great hope for Ethiopia. I think it's tourism is growing and it can definitely expand in tourism since there isn't any other country like it. Expanding the manufacture sector is good. The dam on the Blue Nile would def change things for the better allowing Ethiopia to be self sufficient and exporting energy. Ethiopia is definitely on the right economic track.

As for Dangote, it's almost unbelievable that he became the richest man in Africa off of cement, spaghetti, flour and sugar and not oil, although he's starting to expand into oil. I think it's good that Dangote is investing in Ethiopia. I think both country can both be beneficiaries. I think there is room for Ethiopia in Nigeria, with the possibility of expanding Coffee business in Nigeria. Coffee is grown in Nigeria, but not on a large sale.

Hati13:
Cush aren't tied to Sudan, rather Sudan are tied to Cush. Cush aren't Nilo-Sharan.
All African languages are classified under Afro-Asiatic, Nilo-Sharan, Niger-Congo and Khoisa super families. Cush family belongs to Afro-Asiatic super family. Ancient Egyptian language was also grouped under Afro-Asiatic. Ancient Egyptians claim they came from land of Punt in the Horn of Africa.

Yeah, that guy mother was Ethiopian and his father was from Saudi Arabia. He is helping us a lot, but also exploiting us.

The ancient Kushites generally likely spoke a Nilo Saharan language which developed into the Nubian languages. The language spoken specifically at Meroe, is unclassified due to controversy if it's Afro-Asiatic or Nilo-Saharan. Ancient Egyptian was definitely an Afro-Asiatic language which developed into the modern era as Coptic.

Isahalbash:
No wonder he's behaving like dos agberos at Oshodi isale & oke

Disgraceful

adamskutty:
It is evenly distributed! It might be 50% each or Muslims might be slightly more given the fact that all Kogi state governors to date were Muslims.

Oh I mean more specifically by LGA.

adamskutty:
No! Dino melaye is from Kogi west, he is yoruba!

Names like Achonu, Achimugu are common with southern igalas from igalamela, olamaboro e.t.c (They are mostly Christians), i am from ankpa and we mostly bear islamic names, same with those from dekina and Idah

What is the religious breakdown for Igalas?

Isahalbash:
Na Igalas dey bear d name Na... Achonu, Achimugu. Is Dino melaye also Igala?

Dino is Yoruba. There are indigenous Yorubas in Kogi.

Muafrika2:
Most Fulanis don't refer to themselves as African. I think they want to be Arab or something. But its funny

That's not true.

Olu317:
You people have started. It is obvious you are BINI or their apologist, if not, why comparison? Didn't BINI learn everything from ILE IFE? Kindly save that stuff about pride from someone like me from that egocentrism about BINI this, BINI that. This is Urhobo thread and it is quite fascinating reading all these postulation. Don't bring in Yoruba issue into it because it will become messy.

I don't know his/her ethnicity, but I don't think he/she is displaying Bini egocentrism, but it's a posibility nonetheless. Those names of the clothing styles that I just mentioned up there are native to Yorubas of Ondo-Ijebu area and they are not Edo in origin.

Lol, thanks for reminding me. I forgot that this is an Urhobo thread, I might create another thread about this.

Zoolezoo:
Yes, the Eastern Yoruba dialects are way older than the Western ones. Oyo even seems to be probably the newest. So many innovations and consonant simplifications.

Gh to W
Gw to W
Ch to S
U to I (At word beginnings)
Nasal ON to UN
Nasal EN to IN
NE to NI

All these might look minor, but when they all come together and manifest in a long sentence , it convulates things a bit.
A word like palace (Oghofen in original form) becomes just Afin in Oyo. Person (One) becomes Eni. Money (Egho) becomes Owo. Etc

An untrained Yoruba ear from Ibadan or Lagos can't understand these dialects, even though they are actually more authentic.

You should visit traditional events in Ondo town, Owo, Or any Ondo state town and see how heavily they bead. Almost like the Benins in many regards. But then, that is not really surprising. Even their music is different.

Listen to these:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_N4itjiS7w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l-FwFNuNTM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnh3OwvhyIA

Oyo was a savannah state and was actually part of a zone of active cultural diffusions between the Sudano-Sahelian and savannah West African states. And so, with them came the Agbada which would later spread all over Yorubaland. I just laugh when I hear some Yorubas saying today that Yoruba men don't tie cloth around their torsos. Yes they did tie wrappers, and still do.

Infact it used to be general clothing, but these days, any male who dorns a wrapper-esque clothing is looked upon like some kinf of conc traditionalist/medicine man.

Yes,

Yoruba in the Western parts wore Agbada and other clothing styles, Yorubas in the Eastern parts have their unique styles as well as Agbada. Men wearing wrapper is a sign of honor at least traditionally.

In Owo, when men are initiated from ugbama into Ero which is made up of elderly men, on the day of the Ero festival, they wear an outfit known as igbero which is a wrapper tied from the shoulder. It's honorary for the daughter of the graduating man to give the outfit to her father. Other clothing worn during the festival are girijo, ipan meru, and iketa.

If you come to Owo in September, you can witness the Igogo festival to see some cultural aspects. Yes Ondo men tie wrapper either around the shoulder or waist.

In one of the video up there by Princess Ajanaku, the stripped blue wrapper worn by the women is locally known as gege. It's the most common local wear among women. The Ipele worn on the shoulder by women is also very significant and symbolic in meaning. The blue and white ipele is known as ebolo worn for the funeral of special figures like the King. There is another one called the Ashigbo.

The Ijebu in Ogun state have more in common with the Yorubas in Ondo state honestly. In Ijebuland there are many fabrics that are prescribed solely for special occasions. There is a clothing specifically ascribed for the Ogboni/Oshugbo called aso olona. There is another one used for burial purposes, I forgot the name.

I can go on and on about clothing and the purposes they serve, but I'm just going to go on forever.

macof:
Which Yoruba groups don't have obaship system or believe in oduduwa?

Yeah I almost didn't want to believe it but some Yorubas on the westernmost frontier near the border of Togo and Benin do not have the obaship system or believe in Oduduwa. Local priests locally known as Nàná serve as the overarching religious authority among Áná, Ishá and Mànígrí. Oduduwa is unknown in their pantheon of orishas and there are no crowned rulers. There were some attempts of some sort of centralization among the Áná with a council of kings, but they did not materialize much. Among the Ishá, the role of Nàná is more recognized than the head of town in their principal town of Bante. The Manigri attained some sort of centralization with the olú ìlú title, however the role was nominal as the priest retained more authority. All these three groups do claim they originate from Ife, but the idea of Oduduwa is not really known to them. This isn't to suggest that there aren't other Yorubas in the region who believe in Oduduwa or use the obaship system. The Shábę, Kétu, Ìdáshà, and Ánàgó have Obas and recognize Oduduwa.

TayserMahiri:
Overrated? If a language is influential and spreading it cannot be overrated. There's something unique about it.

Ok, let me put it in better words, overrated as in relatively. I wish other languages can also receive recognition, simple as that!

NairobiWalker:
Arabic is mainly spoken by Arabs. Let's talk of real African languages. If we talk of non-African languages then English takes the mantle.

Arabic has a slight edge on English but that's not the point.

TayserMahiri:
Its the first time you are coming across as simple. You have been sophisticated all along. Each language is unique with its story but all those languages lack something that Swahili had, whether it was Geographical or whatever.

That's my opinion and I don't expect you to understand my views. Swahili spread as a trade language and became a lingua franca and no, I don't think it's uninteresting either, so where did you get that from?

NairobiWalker:
If most non-Africans are only cognizant with Swahili then that makes it the most important language on the continent. I wonder how you already know that yet still claim Swahili is overrated.

Not really.
Most widely known? Yes

One if the most important in terms of number? Yes

Most important? Debatable

NairobiWalker:
Interesting but how developed are they?

Swahili is taught in many universities the world over. There are several Swahili professors who have studied the language indepthly and developed its vocabulary. You'll find Swahili dictionaries everywhere in supermarkets and bookshops. It is a compulsory subject in many East and Central African countries and a language of instruction in schools and universities in Tanzania and to some extent Kenya. Best of all it the most widely spoken African language and unlike Xhosa or Khoikhoi which are mainly spoken by native speakers (owners of the language) the Swahili people constitute less than 2% of total Swahili speakers.

Yes I know all of those things lol. Other languages like Fon, Akan, Yoruba, and Igbo also have notable recognition in Latin America and are studied in universities across the world.

Also Arabic is the most widely spoken language in Africa as well the most spoken in terms of first language in Africa with international recognition and widespread influence. Does that make Arabic the most important language in Africa?

The popularization of Swahili was largely due to tourism and Western exposure of African countries like Kenya, Rwanda, Tanzania, Congo. From the Safaris, to lake Victoria, to Nairobi to Mount Kilimanjaro to Rwandan genocide all have intrigued the Western desires as well as influence perspectives for ages so it's no surprise Swahili came to the spotlight. Swahili was further popularize in movies and especially by Western companies like Disney. It also makes sense when you think about the fact that a huge number of African stereotypes that have come to describe Africans in general come from East Africa like the "African" accent, rural Africa, beautiful nature, poverty(which is find all over Africa), warlords(mainly from the Congo-Rwanda area), fast runners, and yes that includes Swahili. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying poverty or many of the things I mentioned don't occur elsewhere in Africa.I'm just saying that a lot of the stereotypes were based off of East Africa and Congo area. Also stereotypes are plainly subjective so they can be good, bad or neutral in a sense.

... For instance,
In the American movie, "Concusion" that detailed the discovery of a degenerative brain disease by the Nigerian doctor, Bennett Omalu, the American actor Will Smitt, played his role. Throughout the movie, he used the stereotypical African accent which is the East African accent. He himself acknowledges this mistake. A lot of Western perception of Africa boils down to certain parts of Africa. For example, a lot more Westerners have been to Kenya, Tanzania, Egypt, and South Africa than Mali or Sudan.

Zoolezoo:
The Yorubas and Igalas started out as the same ancestral stock of people, journeying from the lake chad region.
When they got to the Niger benue confluence area, both groups bifurcated. (ie split into two primordial groups).

One group branched to the western part of the confluence and became large and expansive. The other group branched eastern direction of the river and became not so successful. The Western fold are the Yorubas. This arm of the migration spread and grew into various dialects. The Eastern dialects closer to the original point of the spit are the older dialects, while the more westwards you go, the more innovative and recent the dialects get.

Igala preserved one branch of the original language they spoke. The Yorubas, (especially the eastern groups) preserve the other.
Igala however came into contact with some other languages like Jukun infusion of new words (like attah) which took place when they came under Kwararafa territorial ambitions and expansion ,Idoma, and Igbo words (like Abacha and akpu), due to their geographical location close to some of those groups. Yoruba came into contact with mostly nothing. All dialectal variations of their language have been mostly self driven and natural deviations, except again on the South Eastern flank where Itsekiri, Ilaje, Ikale, Ondo, etc came into contact with Benin language.

The Itsekiris themselves are a medley of various southeastern Yoruboid groups like the Ijebus (Ugborodo, Omadino, Ureju, Inorinetc). This groups came from the ijebu waterside area and Ode Omi + Ikale, Ilaje, Owo, Akure. Majority of the founding stock seem to have been Ilaje-Ikale.

Benin itself has always received a steady stream of migrants from the Yoruba hinterland throughout almost all of its history. Hence both languages converge in certain regards and words, as well as certain customs. There are towns in Edo like Usen that have Yoruba founders. And if towns deep in the heart of Delta north can have Proven Yoruba origin, I am sure there would be specific urhobo stocks with Yoruba foundation, or at least a heavy infusion of Yoruba and Itsekiri ancestry in their early origins as well.

Things like dressing style, use of extensive beading etc, has little or nothing to do with origin as they are both recent phenomena. Coral beads aren't even indigenous to Western Africa. Which would mean that before Europeans brought them in large quantities to trade barter with the Itsekiris and Benins, all these groups, Eastern and Coastal Yorubas, Benins, Itsekiris, Urhobos, Isokos all likely dressed in similar manner.
Even today, not all Yoruba groups use beading in the same volume The Owos are HEAVY on beading, while the oyos seem to be very light on beading. Its just a continuum of one ethnic group linking into another - given the large size and territorial range of the Yorubas, there is heavy variation. You will need to assume all of Yorubaland in one country to really get the full picture. Some groups of Yorubaland behave like dahomeans. in Dance, Music, Dressing etc.

I hope you get what all my ramblings are about sha.

Just beautiful! You know your stuff. It's almost as if I'm staring at myself in a mirror. I wanted you to keep rambling because your words are just spot on. I've familiarize myself with every corner of Yorubaland including dialects and traditions.

Yes you are right about Owo and Oyo. Do you know the Ologho regalia is different from that of many Yorubas. His regalia is very similar to that of Benin's. The chieftaincy titles are also different from that of Oyo and very similar to Benin's. Owo like other Eastern Yorubas like Ijebu, Ilaje, Ondo, Owe, Oworo, Bunu, etc have so many kinds of local/regional traditional garments and fabrics that are different from the general Yoruba garments and fabrics.

Eastern Yoruba dialects are also very intriguing. In ondo state, some names of towns have been standardized in the Oyo/Ibadan variant of Yoruba. For example
Owo- Ogho
Idanre- Udanrhe
Ile Oluji- Ule Oluji

Other names of towns like Ugbo, Ugbonla, etc have remained unchanged.

I just hope these dialects can continuously be spoken.

You are so right about the variations. Do you know that some Yoruba subgroups don't even have the obaship system or believe in oduduwa?

PissedYagami:
Yeah, quite sad. Some foreigners think all African countries speak French

yeah it's ridiculous. The French gov is very conservative of their language. Many decades ago they set up a institute to standardize their language and get rid of many foreign vocabularies. They are very relunctant to change, that's why they discourage the public from using English words like email and etc. Of course they would love for others to speak their language, that's why they are boasting that there are more French speakers in Africa than France. I've seen a number of Africans who only know how to speak French and can't speak their native languages. It's really unfortunate. I feel like there is this prestige attach for Africans in francophone countries to speak French. Then again a similar thing appear among other Africans in other countries. I'm not saying don't speak French or any other foreign languages, but I just don't like the prestige attach to it. In a more equal society, things may change.

NairobiWalker:
Swahili is an awesome language. Everyone agrees

Not disagreeing with you. There are other awesome languages found across Africa all with their own unique stories to tell.
Xhosa, Nubian, Mande, Dogon, Saharawi, Tamazight, Khoekhoe languages all are interesting.

KingSango:
Again there is no Ile Ife empire never has been and never will be. There is only Oyo Empire, therefore only the Alaafin has ruled over the largest segment of Yorubas, all at sometimes, most at others and now less because of the fall of Oyo. Ase.

Oyo never ruled over all Yoruba at sometimes like you mentioned. I can name many kingdoms that were never under Oyo.
Ife, Ondo, Ijesha, Akure, Ondo, Owo, Ijebu, Ugbo, Owe, Ikale, Mahin, Etc were never under Oyo.

Ife was not an empire, but a kingdom. Ife has always been the spiritual capital of Yoruba and Oyo had the political power. Both had their greatness.

fanficgirl:
How can a language with many speakers be overrated?

I don't judge the worth of a language just on its number of speakers, so you and I probably have a different perspective on that. When people outside of Africa are asked to name what languages are spoken in Africa, a lot of the time they only can only name Swahili and French when there are other notable and important languages in Africa other than those that aren't as recognized.

arinzeejikonye:
Sweet dreams bro,




Have a nice sleep!

is that the winner's chapel in Warri?

Hati13:
Correct!

If I ask, what is your first language? English or other Nigerian languages?

I think the Nigerian English language is slightly different from the ordinary English. Like it has it's own dialect. Am I right?

I grew up speaking Nigerian languages as well as English. However I've studied a lot of languages particularly languages in Asia and Romance languages.

There are two main forms of English used in Nigeria.
Nigerian English is derived (written form) from British English. The dialect you are suggesting is likely the Nigerian Pidgin English which has a slightly different grammar from the English language. It incorporates a lot of vocabulary from different Nigerian languages. It's often difficult for Western English speakers to understand.