₦airaland Forum

MasterChen:
Toh!! But awa pipu told us Onitsha market is the largest in Africa lol abi na West Africa?

But breh, d facts say sumtin else. I think your pipu are bad liars sha. Kumasi market na the largest in West Africa. https://sixdegreesnorth.me/2012/09/27/the-biggest-market-in-west-africa/

Onitsa na the "most developed market" in West Africa.

MasterChen:
!!!!!!!!!!!


The biggest media conglomerate in Nigeria is owned by a Yoruba man - CMA group

The biggest indigenous oil company in Nigeria is owned by a Yoruba man - Oando

The biggest indigenous telecommunications company is owned by a Yoruba man - Globacom

But Onitsha market is the largest market in Africa

https://s16.postimg.org/dycrlul9x/3i_OYi_Pa.gif

Nahh, The largest market in Africa is in Addis Ababa Ethiopia.

http://africabusiness.com/2016/03/07/merkato-the-biggest-market-of-africa/

discusant:
Yoruba Muslims always ally with northern Nigeria Muslims.

Continue to live in denial.

That's not how Yoruba people roll. Yorubas are accommodating to everyone and religion is a personal matter. Nothing concerns Yorubas about your hatred for Muslims or Northerners. Yorubas are bounded together first, before any other group. If Nigeria disintegrates like many of you hope for, Yoruba muslims will still be under Odua.

Mtschew! move along.

OMO ODUA ARE UNITED!

TayserMahiri:
I love your posts

Thanks!
Anytime, Anywhere!

Hati13:
Thanks again wenedem. You have greatly educated me.

Do you think that some west African peoples may be part of Ancient Egyptian?

That's a difficult question to answer. The boundaries like West Africa, Subsaharan, North Africa and all of that are irrelevant when we talk about the evolution of humans. I personally don't think modern populations in "West Africa" are directly descended from Ancient Egypt just because of the stark contrast in timelines, but their ancestors could have had contact with them. I believe "West Africans" or ancestors of modern "West Africans" lived further into North Africa (Northwest Africa) during the green Sahara era. There was nothing like Sub Saharan, because there was no Sahara then. The desert we see now used to be much greener with lush vegetation and vast savannas. There is a lot of evidence for this.

Have you heard of the black mummy of the green Sahara found in Uan Muhuggiag, Libya. The child mummy was the earliest mummy found in Africa and it predates Egyptian mummification cultures by 1,000 years. It's possible that this population influenced Egyptian mummification culture. Archaeologists suggest the mummy was black/negroid. Archaeologists have found that the area was populated by Pastoral black/Negroid herders who domesticated animals. The theory goes that the populations were pushed out by new comers/ farmers from the East. In a nutshell, "West Africa" is just a political term. "West Africans" at least back then lived in both "West Africa" and "North Africa" because there was no Sahara then. "North Africa" particularly "Northwest Africa" was just a continuation of "West Africa." So the Ancestors of today West Africans populated both regions, and some still do till today.

I explained more about this already.
Check out page 712: https://www.nairaland.com/3327789/kenya-ahead-nigeria-all-aspect/712#56626691
and Page 713: https://www.nairaland.com/3327789/kenya-ahead-nigeria-all-aspect/713#56629388


Also, this makes more sense with what I was saying to you here on page 782: https://www.nairaland.com/3327789/kenya-ahead-nigeria-all-aspect/783#56770880

Hati13:
Thanks for the great details!
So, we need to consider Ancient Egyptians as many multi ethnic peoples.

Do you know the descendants of the many people you stated above other than Berbers?

Looking for your last 2 photos you posted, Afro-Asiatic originated in Ethiopia. But others are saying, it was originated in the Mediterranean area. And the central Cushitic(Ethiopia) isn't present in the map.

Yes there are many theories. Most scholars believe that somewhere in Africa was where Afro-Asiatic originate from. The reason that map shows Southern Ethiopia was because of the most divergent Afro-Asiatic branch, the Omotic branch is spoken in the area being the first to split off, so the Proto Afro-Asiatic by some is thought to be spoken around the area. Some people suggest that the red sea around Eritrea is where Afro-Asiatic languages originates from.

The map is just a general map.

Yes, before there was the Egyptian culture, there were multiple ethnicities in the area.

I don't think Ancient Egyptians are far off from modern Horners in terms of complexion. If you compare Ethiopian orthodox and Sudanese coptic murals to Ancient Egyptian murals. According to scholars, the Naqadan culture became the dominant culture in Southern Egypt after the Badari culture. The Naqada were blacks having similar culture with the Nubians. Remember that Upper(Southern) Egypt and Lower(Northern) Egypt were separate kingdoms until they were united. Northern Egypt has more foreign influence than the South. Why? Because the South is furthest from the Mediterranean and more interior. The North was usually the first point of entry/part that was invaded by empires outside of Africa.

Till today, Egyptians themselves note difference between Northern and Southern Egypt. There is a disparity in the North and South. Today, a lot of the mainstream Egyptian culture is from the North with the biggest Egyptian cities like Cairo, Giza, and Alexandria all in the North. This wasn't always the case, Southern Egyptian was very prominent Ancient Egyptian cities like Memphis, Thebes and Luxor all located in the South. Southern Egypt today is considered more rural and poorer with 80% of Egypt's poverty concentrated in the South.

There are two main Arabic spoken in Egypt. What we know as the Egyptian Arabic is actually from the North of Egypt. The South of Egypt speak a different language called Sa'idi Arabic. The Egyptian Arabic is the only variant that is recognized as a national language. The people in Southern Egypt have a distinct identity and are known as Sai'dis and they represent 40% of Egypt's population.

Because Southern Egypt is more interior, foreign influence was limited. That's why Southern Egyptians were regarded on average as being darker in complexion than the North. It also took Islam a longer time to penetrate the South. This is why today the percentage of Coptic Christians in the South is higher than the North.
I think it's interesting that the millenia old differences between Upper and Lower Egypt exist today.

MtuMsuper:
I wish the present north Sudan govt and people can adopt attitudes and practices that allows them to study/acknowledge their pre Islamic heritage with the same or equal respect majority Muslim Egypt does to its own. At least Egyptians understand that they are the descendants of multiple people's and heritages and they eschew extremism in their religious practices I like the Egyptian attitude towards life and modernity, and especially the tolerance of religious expression (well that's under threat nowadays ). Instead, north Sudan have adopted a Wahhabist view of the world, what a shame esp considering their own history as being once Christian.

I think they are more focused on their Arabization policies. The funny thing is that most Sudanese are black, a lot are even darker than most East and West Africans. There are 110 languages spoken in Sudan, but Arabic and English are the official with Arabic being widely spoken. Ironically Sudanese Arabs in Middle Eastern countries like Israel face racism for being dark-skinned while non-Arabs in Sudan also face discrimination by Sudanese Arabs. I think more open minded Sudanese Arabs tend to acknowledge their diverse ancestry or history more. Africa was never the Arab homeland, Arabs were from the Arabian peninsular, so any Arab from Africa is either a product of Arabization and or mixed.

Hati13:
They were separated kingdoms, but during 6th century BC, Nubians invaded Egypt and Nubian ruled successively as a pharaoh of Egypt. Then they were driven out of Egypt after this dynasty and Egyptian pharaohs ruled for the last time until Alexandra the Great invaded Egypt. No true Egyptian ruler ruled Egypt until the 20th century.

They were driven out by the Assyrians. The Assyrians, not Egyptians were the rulers in the 26th dynasty, then the Persians conquered Egypt and they ruled in the 27th dynasty.

fanficgirl:
I thought Nubia and Egypt was separate for the most part, except that Egypt was alwaya invading Nubia?

Yes, they were independent and both were constantly invading each other. Kush successfully took over Egypt for a while. This was the 25th dynasty.

Nowenuse:
Ok.
The world always exhorts the ancient Egyptian history and always downplays the great Nubian history, why do you think this is so?

Where are you from in Nigeria (just curious).

I don't really know why. The Nubian history is very important to Egypt. Nubia was very powerful and important. Egypt just steals the cake when it comes to Africa, when there are tons of equally interesting cultures, kingdoms/empires and civilizations through out Africa. That's why you see ignorant people say that Africans other than Egypt didn't develop a system of writing. This is of course not true, but people who only learn about Egypt tend to think the rest of Africa is empty due to lack of information.

*Facts*
There are more Nubian pyramids than Egyptian pyramids.

Hati13:
I'm confident they were black before they were conquered by Alexander the Great, Persians and Romans. Even after that they were black, but there were also whites and black/white mixs.

Which specific blacks, we don't know for sure other than Nubians and Bejas.
Afars, Agaws and other Cushite peoples in Ethiopia, Eritrea and in general east of Africans may also be part of it. But I said, "may be".

What do you also think who were the Ancient Egyptians other than Nubians?

I think it's more complicated than that. I'm not going to definitively say that Ancient Egyptians were this or that. They've had mixed origins along the way. One thing for sure is they weren't Arab or Europeans, they were Africans. If we want to look at what the Ancient Egyptians were, then we need to look at the predecessor to the Ancient Egyptian civilization. I'm talking about the different Pre-dynastic cultures that started to arose near the Nile river valley when humans started farming, settling down, and forming cultures near the Nile. Some of the prominent pre-dynastic cultures around the area of Lower/Northern Egypt were Merimde, Faiyum A, and Maadi. In Upper/Southern Egypt you had more cultures like Badari, Naqada (including Gerzeh), Amratian.

These people have varying African ancestry. I'm going to use two very dominant culture in the area, the Naqada and the Bedari. For example, many artifacts from the Naqada culture tend to suggest that they were "black" in origin. Artifacts like Afro-hair pick which were used for course hair/afro hair were found at Naqada archaeology sites.


This is contrast to the Badari culture whose dental traits don't match up with the "modern black population" in Sub Saharan Africa. They match up closer with modern Berber populations in Northwest Africa. This isn't surprising considering that there are still Berber populations in Western Egypt around Siwa. In fact the pre-dynastic C culture around Northern Sudan and Lower Egypt is thought to be Berber in origin. This also plays into the theory that east Africa was the source of the Afro-Asiatic language before the languages branched off in the Westward direction to the Maghreb and West Africa and eastward direction to the Middle east.

What all of these tell me is that Ancient Egyptians were of mixed origin. This isn't surprising because the depiction of Ancient Egyptians tend to be different in skin tones with middle-brown skin tone being the most depicted. The Berbers(Mozabite) in Libya were portrayed as being too light in complexion in comparison to the middle Egyptian and the Nubians were portrayed as being too dark. Even with these, Egyptian murals also depict plenty of people with darker skin tones.

You also have human migrations as well, likely form the Middle east and Sub Saharan Africa.
Sure along the way you had the Assyrian, Greeks, Romans, and Arabs who also affected the genetics. Cleopatra is a prime example of that. Cleopatra is a Greek name and she was likely a product of admixture between Native Egyptian and Greek elements. This was what occurred in the Ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt. The Ptolemaic era witnessed a lot of Greek influence, the Egyptian and Greek ruling house came together. Foreign influence was the strongest in Northern/Lower Egypt than Southern/Upper Egypt.

Below are some of the artifacts from the Naqada culture. The last two picture show the evolution of Afro-Asiatic languages.

Nowenuse:
Nubians had their own kingdom almost as powerful as Egypt, but i don't think there was ever a Pharaoh of ancient Egypt that was 100% nubian and stark black in complexion.
They were mostly brown in complexion (but still of the negroid race).

True, they had their own kingdom, but they also had an imperialistic expanse which led them to conquer Egypt around 6th century BC.

As for complexion, read up on the 25th dynasty buddy.

Muafrika2:
Nilotes definitely.

Especially the Dinka & or Nuer

Dinka
https://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/africa_dinkas_return_home/img/2.jpg

Sphinx
https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/field/image/Sphinx-and-Great-Pyramids.jpg

Remember the Nubians invaded Egypt from the South. The Dinka and Nuer are South of the Nubians. Egyptians were Afro-Asiatic in origin and language, however they could possibly have Nilo-Saharan ancestry.

Hati13:
You are definitely right.

What do you think the Ancient Egyptians were?

madapcmod:
Skull miners awon unity beggers. Oblongies

ehhh... I know it hurts... come on don't cry ....have a tissue.

Hati13:
Yes, but Afar and Beja peoples were also Ancient Egyptians according to some scholars. If they are right, then their Cushite relatives(Agaw, Oromos and others) could also be Ancient Egyptians. But we don't know for sure now. Future generations may answer it.

Hati13:
Yes, but Afar and Beja peoples were also Ancient Egyptians according to some scholars. If they are right, then their Cushite relatives(Agaw, Oromos and others) could also be Ancient Egyptians. But we don't know for sure now. Future generations may answer it.

In the 25th dynasty, Nubians from modern day (southern Egypt and Sudan) invaded Egypt from the South. In fact during their rule, the capital of the Nubians was moved from Egypt to Napata in the Nubian homeland. The Nubian language is not Cushitic but the most accepted language classification is Nilo-Saharan.
I'm not going to speculate what role the Afar and Beja played. But one thing is clear, the Nubians were the "Black Pharaohs" of Egypt in the 25th dynasty.

TayserMahiri:
Those Afars might have been the black pharaohs of egypt.

The black pharaohs were Nubians, although a lot of them have been Arabized in the modern age. @Hati13

PissedYagami:
but I can assure you Somalis from Somalia mostly full of themselves. Somali is more of a race though. But if you meet the Kenyans, they are cool guys. But they are many, plus they get soo many children. Pretty sure by 2050 they will be the largest tribe in Kenya

Good to know Somalis from Kenya aren't so full of themselves. They are obviously people of mixed origins. But, whatever they are, I really don't care. However, you can't come on my turf to tell me you're superior. It doesn't work like that.

Nowenuse:
Why do people always assume Cameroon to be a dominantly Bantu country?

The Bantus in Cameroon are a minority and just about 1/5 of the population.

Most Cameroonians are culturally related to the Adamawa/Taraba/Cross river and Benue people of Nigeria. Infact about a dozen ethnic groups cross the Nigerian boundary into Cameroon, speaking the same languages and the same culture.

Cameroonians are 70% related to the Eastern extremes of Nigeria culturally.

If not for the problem of French language dominating Cameroon, Nigeria and Cameroon would have been far much closer to each other.

I never said Cameroon is a Bantu country. The closest Bantu people to naija are in Cameroon. The English speaking side of NW and Sw region as well as the Northern, Adamawa and Far North regions are the closest to Nigeria.
Bantu speakers actually account for close to 30% of Cameroonian population if not more. You also have Bantoid/Semi Bantu population and they are more than 30%.

No need for the lesson, I am very aware of the demographics.

PissedYagami:
Thing with Somalis from Somalia is that their country is a shithole, and they try to feel superior abusing other Africans. You dont see this kind of shit from Ethiopians, the many ethnic groups there. And yeah they think they are white, or Arab or something like that,

Lol don't mention it. I feel sorry for you guys who have to deal with their crap being so close. On NL, you should have seen them acting like some special alien race. Trust my naija peeps to dish out a nice plate ******. We done take crap from nobody.

TayserMahiri:
I garrit now. So everyone goes thru the official wedding ceremonies for the money I presume.

Money?
Nahh, that's already settled between the groom and the wife prior to the wedding like in bride price. Everything at the wedding is simply symbolic. Throwing money is just done for dance, you know... ... for swagga..... The money thrown at the party doesn't really mean anything significant.
It's simply modern Nigerian tradition.

Wedding rites in Nigeria are a whole different level, that's why weddings are so emphasized and so extravagant.

TayserMahiri:
Nigerians must be generous, or is it wealthy?

Nah it's not wealth. if you're wealthy, it doesn't hurt to contribute, but most Nigerians are average. Nigerians just take wedding as an important milestone in life, so they are willing to give and spend money.

TayserMahiri:
And there will still be gifts?

of course

Muafrika2:
Why do Nigerians believe the word Bantu is derogatory?

For the record, our great Bantu community does not need honorary members
There are NO Bantus in West Africa beyond Cameroon

Nah Nigerians don't think Bantu is derogatory. In fact, Bantu culture is celebrated in naija like Bantu knots/beauty trends among our ladies and Bantu lingo like Hakuna matata. Nigeria usually looks to Cameroon since they are our closest Bantu neighbors. People from Naija have no grudges with Cameroonians at all, we are close friends. However it's your neighbors, Somalis(not all, but some) who have grudges with Bantu and West Africans for some apparent reasons. How do I know? We've had a few Somalis in the past who have come on NL to bash Nigerians about how they are superior Cushitic race or whatever and we are Bantu negro or something. Most Nigerians aren't familiar with Somalis except on the TV. At first impression, instead of showing us the positive side of their culture/country, they came on NL to bash. Most Naija just ignore them or try to tell them that there is no race called Bantu, it's just a cultural/linguistic term. But no, they keep insisting that Bantus are a race and "ugly." One even try to suggest that West African groups like Fulani are less Bantu because they haven't be mixed. Lol, most naija peeps just rolled their eyes, ignored or laughed at their ridiculous arguments. Like what kind of stupid claim is that?

PS: Cameroon, at least politically is considered C. Africa, but they are the closest C. African country to West Africa and we share some ethnic groups. I think Cameroon culturally is both in West and Central Africa.

TayserMahiri:
Waaat In naira? Thats crazy, I've never seen of that kind of extravagance except in the movies

So, I should plan to do my wedding in Nigeria

I guess you are not used to it. Other countries in West Africa do it, but I think naija steals the cake. Weddings tend to be extravagant in Nigeria. The more cows you kill, the more extravagant it is. I'm mean you typically do a traditional wedding/engagement ceremony, western/religious wedding, and a reception. Not just wedding, but also funerals, naming ceremony, etc.

Admittedly, my picture was a bit extreme, but it happens. Here is a very tamer version lol.

fanficgirl:
I know that's what I tell them and they shut me down . Claiming I'm only saying that to attach them to West Africans

Lol they claim Cushitic when many Cushitics like Somali will probably call them derogatory terms like Bantu or jareer. Fulanis I've met are proud West African.

TayserMahiri:
Nice, what are the white stuffs then if not confetti? Don't tell me its money...

Haha, you've guessed it

The money is from party guests and it usually goes to the newly wed so it's not what you think.

fanficgirl:
Tell that to the Fulanis. I've met many from Guinea who claim to be cushites from Ethiopia.

Lol that doesn't even make sense.
Most Fulani admit they came from the Fouta djalon in Guinea or somewhere around the Senegambia region. Their language is similar to languages in the region. They likely migrated there from a region further North.

TayserMahiri:
Kenyans mix alot but you will see fully traditional weddings once in a while. Most kenyan weddings are however western with men dressed in suits. Weddings are big cash cows for organizers

Yeah in Nigeria, festivities, especially weddings are also very extravagant and loads of money are spent.

BTW, the second pic is not confetti lol

TayserMahiri:
Kenyans only have one wedding, and it always tends to me a mishmash of African and western. Good to learn about Edoid peoples they had a great empire. Its funny because I was expecting the Benin empire to have been made by the big ethnic tribes in Nigeria today. They had great skills of art making, like our local Kamba people. Do the Edoid people still curve? The Kamba curve them even today and they make $$$ by selling to tourists and medals for events.

Kenyans mixed everything together. Ok, Interesting.

I think if you go to Edo state, particularly Benin city, there are still some people who do bronze casting and artworks. Yeah Edo are not the largest ethnic group in Nigeria, but they have a significant population. Because Edo had an empire does not mean that the big ethnic groups didn't have their own kingdoms and empires too.

Kamba art is very beautiful.They look like arts tourists bring back from their Safari to decorate their homes. I also like the woodcarving arts of the Swahili coast. I heard there are still modern wood carvers.

TayserMahiri:
Does this mean there are Benin people and Oba people in Edo state? They sure had a rich culture. The looting reminds me of a west african king whose head was returned after beingin Europe for many years...

Most Edoid people live in Edo state and some are found in the neighboring Delta state etc.

The Oba is the king of the Benin empire. The crown is preserved till today. Yeah Benin empire was looted by the British. Benin city was burned to the ground by the British and their artifacts were looted and sold to private collectors and some to museums in Europe and Americas. Till today, most have not been recovered.

Hati13:
Sheep, Goat or Ox meat.
Try the raw Kitfo. It's not just raw meat, it's a mix of raw meat/butter/spice. If you don't want the raw Kitfo, then you can with being lightly cooked.

Also, try the typical raw meat with a special spice called "Mitemita and Awaze(special watery Mitemita)".

Ok, sounds good.
I'll rather try the raw kitfo than the lightly cooked one.