₦airaland Forum

coogar: i knew you would be dishonest in your analysis.
creativity = goals + assists, a more balanced analysis would be the addition of goals + assists. torres' 15 goals + 18 assists means he has contributed to 33 league goals at chelsea. whether it's an assist or a goal, they are fall under the umbrella of creativity. you cannot tell me a striker that scored 5 goals and 0 assist has the same output as the one that scored 5 goals + 15 assists if they copped the same number of minutes under their belt. torres won the golden boot in euro 2012 because of the extra assist he had more than his counterparts that had the same number of goals as him.

assists are as important as goals....

103.04 mins/c(drogba)
139.60 mins/c(anelka)

128.50 mins/c(crespo)
161.37 mins/c(torres)

165.25 mins/c(sturridge)
120.10 mins/c(mutu)

188.00 mins/c(kezman)
233.33 mins/c(pizarro)

310.67 mins/c(demba ba)
206.10 mins/c(lukaku)

torres is the 4th best striker in chelsea since the roman era. considering the fact that he does not take set-pieces and 90% of his league goals have been from open play, he's done well for himself. matter of fact, he's done superbly well!

he has done so superbly well he has scored ONE GOAL in the last ONE THOUSAND MINUTES of EPL football

A-40:
What does playing on the wing prove? Even Mauro Camoranesi played on the wings

Ramires is a utility player and utility players get moved about from time to time!

Besides the attributes you listed are also applicable to Gundogan only that he is a better passer and generally plays at a higher level of intelligence


But Sahin was not a slouch! He was not slow! The thing is until there is some proper documentation of these player's speed we are all working with assumptions more or less

No I said Dortmund were playing at a higher level over the last two seasons as compared to 10/11 and the results are there for all to see

ehen u now pulling out the proper documentation card? i don't need proper documentation to tell me that gael clichy is faster than kolarov or that phil jones is faster than ferdinand. if it was close one might require documentation,but like i said ramires is faster than gundogan(and its not even close)

dayokanu: Can someone tell us what's Torres goal per league minute in 2013

according to a friend of mine as at this evening Fernando Torres a.k.a El Nino a.k.a big boss jigga man is averaging about 1 goal every 1012(ONE THOUSAND AND TWELVE) minutes in the league for the year.

i told my friend that he must be mistaken . haba a goal every thousand minutes? not fernandodo!

he is in bottom 3 of Chelsea's Abramovic era in 2 different ways of measuring his PRIMARY objective (scoring goals) while he is decent at a secondary objective (assists). he was not brought for that amount of money to be having the 2nd worst minute to goal ratio and the 3rd worst game to goal ratio in the last 10years while providing just 1 assist almost every 300 minutes.
i think FERNANDO TORRES is d one dt needs perspective

ur stats coogar show the following;

Drogba 1 goal every 166.93 mins

Anelka 1 goal every 246 mins

Crespo 1 goal every 141 mins

Torres 1 goal every 355 mins! lakuli!

Mutu 1 goal every 300 mins

Kezman 1 goal every 188 mins

Pizarro 1 goal every 350 mins
and Demba Ba 1 goal every 466 mins

so in both game to goal ratio and minute to goal ratio Torres is in bottom 3 of Chelsea strikers in the last 10yrs.
that is the definition of failure if i ever saw one especially when one considers he has played two and a half seasons in the club

someone told me that torres has scored ONLY ONE league goal this year!

i refused to believe him, is it true?

coogar: firstly, this is a fraudulent way of computing statistics. i deal with minutes, not number of matches. a striker that copped 90 mins & the striker that played for 5 secs have both played one match. so your statistics is misleading.

really? you do know that if the stats were in minutes Torres who came in as a 50 million player and starts more often than not would fare even worse than Mutu,Kezman,Sturridge,Kalou and all the players before him who were never really guaranteed starters and played lots of times as subs

superstar1: Citie were just too lazy while defending. maybe is because kompany is not around. i pray he does not come back before we play them. welcome to EPL, Pellegrini. This aint La Liga where teams lie down to die.

true talk.spanish league teams are annoying in the way they bare buttock absent clothing to barca and madrid

chamotex: I'm not talking of him coming to OT, I meant a midfielder with his tenacity and work rate - a box to box midfielder.
I didn't see anything wrong with his overall passing in the game albeit a few.
Medel is the one I wouldn't mind at OT...class!

OK i get u now.yes we obviously need a player with a good motor in midfield who is also very "miserly" with the ball

A-40:
Gundogan is fast! I don't know how you can just wake up and assume these things without any verifiable ways to back it up!

You can not play the role Gundogan plays in that Dortmund midfield without pace. Go and watch the first leg against Madrid and tell me Gundogan is not fast! With superior pace,energy,passing and intelligence he made Alonso and Khedira look like Sunday footballers

Alonso and Khedira are not pacy don't use that to judge Gundogan's speed. Gundogan plays the same role that Sahin used to play,having a role in d midfield of a team doesn't make a player fast


I watched that Dortmund and I watched the Dortmund of the last two seasons and there are significant improvements from the Dortmund of 10/11 to 11/12 and 12/13 season in their fast tempo football and blitzkrieg counter attacks this is why they were able to cope in Europe

Sahin is not as quick as Gundogan but he is no slouch either that Sahin played the role Gundogan occupies has no bearing on the Gundogan debate. Stick to the individuals and cut down on the needless 3rd party comparison. You cannot deny that the midfield is far more dynamic in the Gundogan era than the Sahin era

The midfield is more dynamic ,yes because its Gundogan and less Sahin but that doesnt make Gundogan faster than a player like Ramires who plays on the wing sometimes and is known for his speed and stamina.and the 3rd party comparison is needed because your premise is that Gundogan's role in d Dortmund midfield made it a given that he is fast.Well Sahin played that same role and Sahin is definitely not a runner
P.S initially u said Dortmund has been playing fast tempo for AT LEAST 3 seasons, why are u now differentiating 3 seasons ago from the last 2 seasons?

coogar: who has been successful for chelsea in the last 10 years as a striker?

Torres record in the EPL for Chelsea is a goal every 5.5 matches

Anelka's record is a goal every 3 matches

Drogba's record is a goal every 2.26 matches

Sheva's record was a goal every 5.2 matches

Adrian Mutu was a goal every 4.5 matches

Crespo was a goal every 2.45 matches

even Kalou who rarely played centrally scored a goal in every 4.3 matches

and STURRIDGE a goal every 3 matches

the only Chelsea strikers with worse scoring average than Torres in d last 10yrs are his fellow failures Kezman and Demba Ba
Drogba,Anelka and Crespo had double digit scoring seasons within their first 2 seasons and also posted a decent average overall ,one cant call them failures, especially the DROG

he had a good game and worked had throughout but his passing was a a bit careless especially coming from a CM player.
he has to have sustained performances of high quality before one can talk of a big club coming

coogar: oil bunkerer ibime, camel dayokanu, peacock sephia and others used to engage me in fierce arguments that torres was the problem. ibime was practically sucking demba ba's cöck in january so it's unbelievable that someone would say demba ba has been useless for chelsea.

you are spot on this time. Demba Ba AND Torres have BOTH been useless

A-40:
When did Aubameyang join Dortmund? Reus joined only last season so what are you talking about? Dortmund have been playing uptempo football for at least 3 seasons now! The likes of Gotze, Kagawa, and Gundogan formed the bedrock of such quickness

Gundogan is a ball winner, ball retainer and his energy and pace is what keeps Dortmund able to maintain such a high tempo. Ramires is not quicker abeg

What tendency are you talking about? Ninja pls you don't know me like that

ok i dont know you like that but i dont think u know gundogan like that

reus and gotze are fast but gundogan is not,at least not as quick as ramires. that a player plays in a fast tempo team doesnt automatically mean he is quick.
P.S i mentioned aubemeyang and reus to tell u d fast players in Dortmund NOW and Gundogan is not one of them.
the season before gundogan joined when sahin was playing instead of him and lucas barrios leading the line instead of lewandowski Dortmund still played fast tempo football with blitzkrieg counter attacks.do u want to now claim that nuri sahin is a quicker player than ramires? after all he was a major fulcrum in dt dortmund side

A-40:
Have you sat down to actually watch Dortmund play? Gundogan is one of the biggest reasons they are able to play at such a high tempo! forget hype and crowd mentality Gundogan is quicker


Shut that se-men receptacle disguised as your mouth


What logic? In a mechanical team like Chelsea the few quick players are likely to stand out

Does Ritchboy work with the IAAF or what does his agreement prove exactly?

FYI i usually watch Bundesliga matches and always watch if its Bayern or Dortmund.
that a team plays fast paced football doesn't mean that ALL its players are faster than those of a team playing slower football. Reus,Aubemeyang,Kuba are the sprinters in that team. Gundogan contributes more with quick incisive passing and speed of thought than speed of his legs. when it comes to sheer speed i.e running from point A to point B ramires is faster and i repeat its not even close.
i noticed there is a tendency for you to hype everything bundesliga and denigrate everything else and thats very disingenuous of u

.

coogar: honestly, mikel obi is exactly what we need. someone that would just sit in there and mow down any threat. fellaini is a luxurious player. baines is even worse. I don't want the growth of fabio/buttner to be stunted.

https://i.guim.co.uk/n/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2013/8/23/1377277930741/Manchester-United-v-Chels-001.jpg

is this line up ideal? kagawa wasted on the left?

not bad, though i might shift kagawa to d bench move welbeck to d left and bring in your fat anderson to midfield to stiffen it up.carrick and cleverley alone is a bit light weight IMO. carrick and cleverley to sit deep and anderson to launch forward and join the front 3

coogar: ok ok.....
what about mattieu flamini or even abou diaby?

Ehen? y u no talk Roland Ewere na? we aint interested in the sick men of Arsenal,we have enough of our own

mikel AND carrick ? naaa

RuuDie: I disagree with Rene on one thing...SAF did react! He got out of the dug-out went to the fans and urged them to raise the crescendo level...and the lads responded on the pitch, at times you'd wonder if we were indeed a man light. Perhaps only on whim but it was effective nonetheless.

At times that is all that's needed; that "jinja" --- that fire in the belly, heart on sleeve stuff.
Even though we lost, for me, that ranked as one of the very best UTD performances last season!

what was needed was a tactical reaction. i can remember almost screaming at the TV for fergie to make a change.a short while after the card we lost the midfield and more and more incursions were being made into our half, he should brought on a fresh leg into the midfield immediately before the goal. fergie's achille's heel was d amount of trust he placed on his players on d pitch,sometimes too much.dat was d reason for his often late subs

u do have a point, however its not beyond the realms of possibility that fellaini gets a starting spot partnering carrick later on in the season because 1)anderson will likely gt injured 2) cleverly also has fitness n stamina problems
in d absence of any actual bids for real quality CMs in europe i wont mind us copping fellaini

montelik: I wish the window could close tonight. No way are Baines and Fellaini worth a joint £30m to Manchester United. I can understand why Everton would value them more highly as those 2 carry their team, but from a United perspective they aren't worth what Everton feel they are.

i am also not rily sold on the fellaini idea but to be fair he had a decent game against WBA.
more importantly right now buying fellaini is better than buying nobody AND baines is better than buttner

Mr_TA: Interesting interview with Rene there.

it was an indirect shot at ferguson, LOL

A-40:
Ramires and Gundogan is still somewhat close with Gundogan slightly nudging it but Gotze vs Hazard? Hazard isn't even that quick to start with certainly not as quick as Gotze

Gundogan faster than Ramires? c'mon now even ur Bundesliga mate Dayo won't cosign on that. nobody talking abt technique,passing,intelligence etc when it comes to speed Ramires is clearly the faster guy and its not even close

i dont really believe it but why are the rumors such illogical ones? prefer the bollocks to be about kondogbia,witsel,modric e.t.c u know smoke and fire things

well it doesn't make sense but what aspect of our transfer dealings so far makes sense?

its now Mata? SMH do these people know what they are doing? how Fabregas,Modric,Fellaini and Mata take resemble? funny thing is Chelsea might b willing to sell him,bt where does that leave Rooney and Kagawa?

but one has to appreciate the spirit of the young boys.despite all d media distractions and the tomfoolery by the Arsenal board they came through in a tough fixture

drake2005: Say that again. Even your own blood mother will be thrilled to have Gen. Danjuma murder you and take his wife, Daisy's place in a heartbeat.

She, Daisy has known this man since he was 25 and has nothing; stuck with him through those years of military/power turbulence. So nothing you say of her husband will change her perception of him. She loves him dearly as a thief and a murderer

do u mean she has been in a relationshp with him since she was ELEVEN years old? LWKMD, obviously u dont know what u talking about. FYI Theophilus Danjuma is not her first husband.

.

i dont trust that fellaini guy at all! but when he comes cos it seems like he will come, i hope he succeeds.

Nobody is saying Song is a world beater (at least i am not saying that). However if we had Alex Song in the squad instead of the often injured and always FAT Anderson i would be happy. Anderson has turned the Man Utd job into a sinecure, 96 league appearances in 6 seasons is not good enough. the guy is always battling fitness,form and weight problems. I hope TomC wont follow his path too.

I'm not saying Song specifically is the answer but someone, ANYONE whose dynamism and energy complements Carrick's positional sense,passing and composure.At Bayern Schweini's energy complements Martinez passing and interception, Man City have Yaya Toure and Fernandinho,even Chelsea have Ramires and to a lesser extent now Essien. Even Sven Bender at Dortmund is no slouch when it comes to tackling and closing people down. NOBODY does that with consistency in United's midfield, we find it too difficult to win balls back and mediocre teams are having 10-15 passing moves against us too often.

Against good teams we will get punished for this. When u face really good teams that have high passing accuracy and are miserly with the ball just waiting patiently like Carrick to intercept the ball becomes really difficult,they just wont give u the ball!

U have to mark and close down at high tempo with very quick pressing and one or two tackles, THEN their passes become less accurate and u can now make interceptions more easily.