₦airaland Forum

raumdeuter: And How many times has Yaya Toures City made this same knockout stage despite spending 10times more than Juve

bros i hope u can read and understand english.
i never talked about whether each player had done enough individually to lead their teams to success.....i don't believe one player can achieve that solo. no where did i ascribe juve's inability to do well in europe to vidal. i was illustrating the weakness of the serie A if an average team like Juve can be going almost undefeated yearly

afrodoc: Thats to show you the yeyerity of the league. How many matches has Juve lost in the league last 3 years? This same Juve team that struggles almost yearly to reach knock out stages of UCL.

that is what i stressed

Debroslink: I SMH for man united's management. They can pay £30m for a 19 year old untested overrated English player, but can't go for the most complete midfielder in European football Vidal for just ordinary £47m.

Its not the management and its not the money. The problem is the injured knee and Van Gaal's reluctance to trust it is ok. I also suspect Van Gaal intends to wait until Janaury for Strootman. I wouldn't mind Strootman and Vidal combo behind Mata, oh boi
That means Herrera,Cleverley and Fletcher would be the 2nd unit with Anderson and Fellaini being offloaded to Maritimo in Portugal

coogar: same as man city!
toure has been at man city for how many seasons now - where has he taken city to in europe? they have been beaten bluish blackish by nearly all the teams they have faced in europe. they have finished at the bottom of the group about twice....

vidal is the truth!
this is exactly what we need in our midfield, a raging bulldog who would kill off the opposition while scoring or assisting via his killer passes.

[img]http://164.177.157.12/img/blog/2014%2f7%2fVidal2Header.jpg[/img]

see how busy this player gets in the middle of the pack. rooney wouldn't even need to track back again.

[img]http://164.177.157.12/img/blog/2014%2f7%2fVidal2.jpg[/img]

he has scored 28 goals in serie a. the highest of any midfielder since he moved to italy. who does this guy remind you of? he tackles more than tiote & scores as many as ramsey.....this is the new keane!

van gaal would be stüpid not to pay £50m for this lad.

I was comparing the leagues not the clubs. Man City has been poor in Europe but they have lost 17 matches in the EPL in that period but in that period Juve has lost only 7 matches including an unbeaten season. only in a fecal league( or at least a putrid one) can this Juve side go unbeaten
for a whole season.

P.S if Vidal is fit and his knee is fine he would be a great addition and i would be happy with it but don't go making it like he is the 2nd coming of Jack Bauer.
ExtraP.S Coogar was it not you that said with fellaini and anderson and cleverley we would win the league this season and that it would be foolhardy for us to spend any money on midfielders?

pkasso: City started last season with a 442 with Toure and Fernandinho in midfield flanked by two of either Silva, Nasri or Navas with Aguero playing slightly behind Dzeko/Negredo.This formation was employed 19 times.Meaning Yaya is a CAM in theory with the formation looking like a 4132 when City break forward.Navas, Silva and Nasri rarely start together in a 4231, so how i don't understand how Toure plays as CDM.A double-pivot at City is more likely to be Garcia-Fernandinho with Yaya up front with Silva and Nasri.

Your argument should be with your source Whoscored, not here. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO GAVE THE POSITION STATS

coogar: no he hasn't.....
in fergie's final days - i saw tom cleverley reenacting the barbaric act of slavery against yaya toure at the etihad. which distinction? what was toure's contribution to the barcelona team that won 2009 champions league? if barca had yobo in toure's position on the night, they would still have won the cup.



because vidal is an all-action midfielder. he tackles as many times as he creates chances. he's the latino roy keane. toure's ašs is covered by fernandinho & gareth barry(penultimate season).



that's a very shaky way to analyse statistics. the italian league is very combative. vidal was the anchor of the juventus midfield that won 33 league games, losing only 2 games.

on the attacking side of things, vidal created more & assisted more pro rata. so what does toure have over vidal apart from being a cry baby that wants to flee cos he wasn't wished a happy birthday?

Thats to show you the yeyerity of the league. How many matches has Juve lost in the league last 3 years? This same Juve team that struggles almost yearly to reach knock out stages of UCL.

I like Vidal and want him to come to United if he is fit and can remain injury free. However that doesn't mean we sholud rubbish all the others who have done it. I have seen people here denigrating Toure and Fabregas just because Vidal is the flavor of the month.

coogar: no he hasn't.....
in fergie's final days - i saw tom cleverley reenacting the barbaric act of slavery against yaya toure at the etihad. which distinction? what was toure's contribution to the barcelona team that won 2009 champions league? if barca had yobo in toure's position on the night, they would still have won the cup.



because vidal is an all-action midfielder. he tackles as many times as he creates chances. he's the latino roy keane. toure's ašs is covered by fernandinho & gareth barry(penultimate season).



that's a very shaky way to analyse statistics. the italian league is very combative. vidal was the anchor of the juventus midfield that won 33 league games, losing only 2 games.

on the attacking side of things, vidal created more & assisted more pro rata. so what does toure have over vidal apart from being a cry baby that wants to flee cos he wasn't wished a happy birthday?

That does not explain his being dribbled almost 2 times per match and committing 2.3 fouls per match( Toure's stats were 1.2 and 1.1 respectively). That is the definition of defensive liability.
If you add the fact that Vidal turned the ball over 41 times compared to Toure's 28 and Vidal was also dispossessed 44 times compared to Toure's 31 ALL THESE while starting 7 matches less than Toure then we can have a better idea of who the liability is

pkasso: Fail! 442 was City's default formation for most of last season.His stats in CAM are clearly from a 4231.

Oh great picasso we are merely quoting the same source you quoted. Are you saying they are right in some matters and wrong in other matters?
If so who decides when we are to believe them and when we are to ignore them? You?

Whoscored which you quoted so confidently earlier on said that Toure played CDM and CM 33 times and played CAM just 5 times. Or you don't believe in Whoscored again? Are you now an unbeliever?

Nihilist: Can you just answer the questions we asked?

How many times did Toure play as an AM according to your reference source?

And who was CAM and CDM in united's 442 last season?

Let me help pkasso though i don't know him from Adam

According to his source Whoscored.com Toure played as a CM 24 times, as a CDM 9 times and as CAM only 5 times.
Also Toure's best stats were as a CM and CDM......he scored 0 goals and made only 1 assist as a CAM

Yaya Toure is not a defensive liability, he has played CM,CDM and even CB with distinction in the past.

Vidal played less matches than Toure yet he committed more fouls 74 fouls to Yaya Toure's 39 and Vidal was dribbled 54 times to Toure's 43.
These stats alone show that Vidal is more of a defensive liability than you think and is a potential yellow card machine in the faster paced EPL.

pkasso: Where on NL do i know this attention-seeking biatch? Guy clear road make better people pass.



Coogar, abeg help me school these boys.Vidal is the Truth!

Lol are you begging for help from your oga at the top?

Vidal is a very good player, better than Yaya Toure? I dont think so.
Toure plays most times in midfield and has the licence and the ability to make attacking forays and score goals. He is also a very good free kick taker with a very impressive passing range for someone of his size and physicality.
Right now i would rate toure ahead of vidal.
Vidal plays alongside Pirlo and Pogba in midfield........surely they share the burden with him.
Fernandinho does not compare to those boys, gareth barry is mediocre and d less said abt garcia the better

StarBoard: There are quality players in Serie A. Don't be convinced that it is rubbish because their teams perform poorly in Europe. The fact is that the Premier league and La Liga and even the French League are pulling away the best players from Italian sides mainly because of wages. The Juves and Milans and the Inters can't throw as much cash as they used to at players anymore, but every now and then there is an unearthing of decent to good players in the Serie A. Take for example the Cuadrado that is being linked to us as well as the Freddy Guarin guy.

But I agree with your post for the most parts.
A knee injury has the potential to undermine a career, which is why i am wary of the Vidal signing especially for that amount.
I am in no way doubting his ability. He appears to be a decent player at the very least and I saw the demolition job he did on Chelsea November 2012 in Turin. If he can replicate that form consistently then we are likely to be in good shape offensively.

Yeah quality players are unearthed in the league as in other leagues and i know that there are some good players there.
However when u consider the poor performance of the serie A teams in d UCL and also the fact that this juve side goes thru almost every season undefeated or close to undefeated

Anderson has little hope in this formation.......scratch that anderson has little hope in any formation(unless we are forming a BIG BIG circle).
He is usually injured and when not injured he is usually overweight.
When u factor in his technical limitations as a midfielder u know he is likely a goner.
Fellaini is bereft of skill so he should go too

I am suspicious of performances in the serie A to be honest.
I believe vidal is a good midfielder and possibly one of the best at the moment but i am not sure he is at the level so many think he is at.
75 percent of serie A teams are quite yeye and the league is not as good as it once was.

Having said all that my main issue with this potential transfer is his knee injury.
One knee injury can finish an athlete , especially one that was rushed back before time and not allowed to rest like vidal at the last world cup.
It would be double punishment if we paid such a big sum for yet another crocked player

If vidal is behaving like a proud chick then lets get khedira or somebody else of proven quality.....at least until we hopefully get strootman midseason

We need a top central defender to play in the middle of the back 3. Someone that is very good at passing the ball out of defence.
Dt way evans and blackett can share LCB while jones and smalling share RCB.

also we need a central midfielder. Some of herrera's passes were suspect and is tackling needs some polish.

Am happy luke shaw played much better in d 2nd half.
i saw some elements of his southampton play today.

Great pass, great cross, great goal

Our no 10 in this match is mata.
Let him too boss d game

Poor cross by mata

Young has been good so far...but he is not alone.
rooney, mata, herrera have been very good too.
All in all good play all round.
Nani and Zaha have been the least impressive in my opinion

I am working tonite.....too bad ehn

coogar: #jokes!



and evra defends first? alves & baines defends first with the number of assists they generate? are those crosses coming from their starting positions?



pure nonsense - nothing is permanent on a football pitch otherwise only the centre forward would be scoring. where did evra score his bullet shot against bayern? he was "defending" first?



another pure nonsense - football is fluid.
no one ever remains in a permanent position. where was rooney when he hooked that beautiful pass that mata scored from - is that where rooney was supposed to be operating from?

there's nothing young is doing now that he wasn't doing before. the formation didn't change young......he's just enjoying his football under a manager that has shown him a great deal of confidence. in 3-4-1-2 & 4-4-2. the mid 4 is the mid 4. nothing has really changed except for the extra assignment of doing some defensive job.

but its true. apparently you know more about the duties and instructions van gaal is giving than van gaal himself.......or at least you believe you do

elampiro: No. There is a big difference between what Evra and co do and what Shawn/Young is expected to do. Evra/Rafael duty is to defend first. They are a part of a permanent backline. Their overlap is a risk to the entire team. On the other hand, Young and Valencia can play freely up front with the comfort that there men behind them.

Even Gaal has said in the new formation, only the two central midfielders and the forwards retain their play from 4-4-2. He said the major job, training, coaching and adjustment is on the wing backs and defenders.

Elampiro you are wrong. Coogar knows more than Louis Van Gaal when it comes to tactics and formations in general especially when it comes to the duties assigned by LOIUS VAN GAAL to our wingbacks

coogar: in other leagues where the emphasis isn't really so much about being defensive, you may be right. but in the premier league, it's the same. even rooney has played that role many many times - tactically moved to the left to snuff attacks out.

3-4-3 & 4-4-2.
the midfield 4 is the midfield 4 in both formations. when ashley bombs forward, the dude on the right would hold & vice versa.


https://giant.gfycat.com/AdoredUnevenKillerwhale.gif

after today's match van gaal praised the players and said this system is different for the team. he said the only players who are playing their normal roles are the 2 central midfielders, mata and the 2 strikers. this system is different for the defenders ESPECIALLY the wingbacks

coogar: what is the difference?
he's playing where he would normally play in a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. when defending, ashley tracks back to help his full-back. what's the difference, i ask?

y'all are making this wing-back thingy look like a new concept. every winger in a 4-4-2 playing in the premier league is technically a wing-back, maybe except ronaldo after a while & fergie beefed him for a while.

so you dunno milner, kuyt, nani, valencia, etc have been doing this role for aeons?

SO according to you there is no difference between a winger and a wing back? and his duties are the same as a winger in a 442 or a wingforward in 433/4231?

OK YOU ARE RIGHT

if we are to return to 442 or 4231 i will pay his tfare to aba.
as a wing back he is doing very well.....in preseason

Dadehmola: Playing a winger upfront at the expense of a CF who hasn't really been assessed by the manager is the issue here, I think.

assessed him training......maybe he found him wanting there.
my opinion is he is a great finisher but a poor footballer.
he would have been at home in the era of finishers e.g crespo,inzaghi,van nistelrooy,owen,fowler etc
but these days big teams need 10 footballers in the outfield....no short ones(possession is key)

Dadehmola: Playing a winger upfront at the expense of a CF who hasn't really been assessed by the manager is the issue here, I think.

well he is no longer a winger. at least as long as he is in united. we dont have wingers anymore, even nani is a striker in this team(van gaal said as much)
chicharito is the poorest footballer out of our strikers and that is his major problem.ferguson,moyes and van gaal don't have any personal beef against chicharito or his family.
or you think moyes who is scottish by the way would have been thinking of nationality of his players when he was fighting for his coaching life last year?
van gaal too who every tom dik and harry knows is a stubborn nonsending man is suddenly playing zaha ahead of chicharito because of nationality?
in the immortal words of balotelli "why always chicharito'?
HE HAS TO IMPROVE HIS PLAY.....how many big teams do u see using poachers these days of possession football?

SailorXY: @afrodoc, Hernandez will always be a better forward than Welbeck.

it is a very simple fact

i hear you, and that might be true.
BUT that was not the debate. the guy was questioning van gaal's rational of giving more minutes to zaha than chicharito.
van gaal will always give minutes to the relatively unknown young player rather than the senior squad member ESPECIALLY in preseason.
who gets to stay and who has to go will be decided later.