₦airaland Forum

bari_kade,

i did read your post and my opinion has not changed, we have no way of knowing that he wasn't referring to the holy spirit, there is nothing in the context of those verses that point to the blasphemy against jesus or the holy spirit., he was before a blasphemer i still stand by my words that saying that blasphemy was against jesus is a safe assumption. or that he caused people to blasphem, again he didn't say against who, so that still is a safe assumption to me.

maybe i should repeat my question, who is the holy spirit?

and believe me, from all that has been said so far, i still dont understand the concept of blasphemy against the holy spirit, since it is different from a sin against him. please forgive my lack of understanding and kindly put it in simple terms and then bible verses. thanks for the patience.

@monshege,

no religious arguments intended, just curious minds on the forum asking questions.

@goodguy,

am i a christain? NO. why? because as much as i try to live like christ, i find out that i am more human so to speak than he was on earth and some times i fall short of being called christlike. so am not christlike but striving to be one.
do i have a bible? i do. have been trying to get the quoran too. just didn't find the one in english.

have i read the book of hebrews? oh yes. do i make reference to it? not in my every day life, so i would say no.

and which is more importantant the message or the writer? both because the writer may not have been there when jesus whom he seeks to write about was praying, so i ask, where did he get his gist?

if jesus had written anything down that would have been a different story, but when you are writing about aproko and yet you have never met aproko, the only question my dear good guy is how did you know? your name na aproko abi aproko na your sister?

jesus christ said, if ye must pray, pray then like this - the lords prayer. (and thanks for saying it all over again)

so why then do i have to 'jump up and down?'

@ bobbyaf,

i agree with you on two points. one the soul and the spirit are not the same!! the human being has a spirit and not a soul. the word soul was coined by man probably for easier understanding (but that is not the case as it has obviously led to more confusion).

at physical death, the human spirit drops the flesh which is only a cloak that enables man wonder through the earth. the law of gravity then sets in, thus the spirit, depending on his life on earth was led, can either gravitate towards the region of light and paradise, or towards the realm of darkness and damnation. what heppens in those realms is a topic on its own.

your second point is that the judgment has already begun. it has begun all right. 'all that is dead within you shall arise so that it may pass judgment on itself' - all that is dead within you not all the dead cos believe me, those that have died before jesus was on earth are plenty and those bones have gone beyond the point of isaiah's prophecy, they will not rise again

translating the bible from the original hebrew to english has its obvious problems cos when the right words cannot be found, a synonym is used just to pass on the idea. but you will agree with me that the synonym for a word and that particular word may not necessarily have the same meaning, hence this debate and many more to come.

p.s - all the emphasis here are mine.

Demoore:
Well, if I were in your shoes I would definitely choose Diamond bank. Its not about just the money, its also about the working environment and job satisfaction.you would have fewer people to attend to everyday at Diamond bank plus the probability of rising is higher. i would advise you to pray on it and seek advice from bankers with more experince on the issue. good luck.

i second this opinion.

@ bari_kade,

so you say that paul blasphemed, but not against the holy spirit!!!

1 Tim 1:12-14 ", who was before a blasphemer,, "
he did not say who he blasphemed against, just that he was a blasphemer. here i insist that we have no way of knowing that his blasphemy wasn't against the holy spirit. you have given that passage your own interpretation.

Acts 26:9-11 -", I and i punished tham often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme, "
again, he did not say who he compelled them to blaspheme against. "doing many things contrary to jesus christ' - paul had no qualms with using the word blasphem, so if he meant to say blasphem against jesus christ, he would have gone ahead and said so.
again i insist you have given that passage from the bible your own interpretation.

still you havent answered my question. should a person that has blasphemed against the holy spirit forget about repentance since he is already doomed?

historians do not know who wrote the book of hebrews!!! so if we do not know who wrote the book, how do we really know that jesus offered petition with loud cries and tears??

again if jesus taught us to pray the lord's prayer, are you inferring that he is contradicting himself by offering petition with loud cries instead of praying as he has taught us?

thesilent1:
its really sad to hear these stories. i guess we all have a responsibility to pray for the deliverance for these brothers and sisters misguided and blind.

to be free and free indeed!!!!

SORRY, I COULD NOT HELP IT!

LMAO

so you had to say it again indeed!!!

bari_kade:
@otuwe,

Leaving "those people" for a moment, could you share with us what you believe prayer to be according to God's Word?

am not otuwe, but i must say that the last time i checked, Jesus Christ said 'if then ye must pray, pray then like this', and he went ahead and gave the Lord's prayer.(i'll have to find that verse)

jesus christ has taught me how to pray by giving me the Lord's prayer which says everything I need to say to the Almighty, i dont see the need to battle serpents and scorpions when the same bible has told me they shall not harm me. if indeed jesus has fought the battle like we christains say 2000yrs ago, do i really have to bother with the loudspeaker and jumping and shouting?

i guess not.

bari_kade:
3. The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness

This is the core issue here: and we should never misconstrue it to mean what it does not. Perhaps, the main concern is two fold:

      (a) can believers commit the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

      (b) can blasphemers against the Holy Spirit find repentance later on?

The (a) above, my persuasion is simply this: NO! Believers are not to fear that they rpobably have committed this sin. In the first place, a blasphemer has deliberately rejected the convictions of the same Holy Spirit, and therefore the Spirit withdraws His convicting work in the life of that person. Without the Holy Spirit, repentance is IMPOSSIBLE!!

Second, when a person is born again, the Spirit of God bears a twofold witness: (i) that Jesus is Lord [no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed - I Cor. 12:3]; (ii) that such a person is truly God's child (Rom. 8:16). If these are true (as surely they are), where then is the inference to suggest that a believer has committed this sin against the Holy Ghost?

Now to the second question (b) above, my answer is still NO!! To suggest otherwise is to deny the clear statement of the Lord Jesus Christ in Mark 3:29 & 30 --  "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."

what about Saul? or Paul? what sins did he commit? are you sure all those his sins did not include blasphemy?

again i ask, does this mean that a blasphemer should not bother repenting even if he just came across the bible cos he is already condemned to die?

donduke:
Will you take an offering from a politician? We know most are corrupt. Will you ask people what their source of income is before you receive their offerings?

i wonder how many pastors do that.

@ mushin,

i did read your post that was why i inserted your quote.

i'm sorry if i got the impression you were a christain and at the expense of sounding as if i dont understand english, i dare say again that the existence of God cannot be logically proven.

your questions about the rain, the air we breathe would definitely get a scientific and logical answer that may not point to the existence of a God!!!so even if you dont belong to any particular religion, your reference to the rain, the air we breathe is not exactly convincing to the logical thinker that there is a God.

thesilent1:
its really sad to hear these stories. i guess we all have a responsibility to pray for the deliverance for these brothers and sisters misguided and blind.

to be free and free indeed!!!!

you can say that again.

ccaramel:
3. Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?

It is the devil that makes you do it. You have to resist the enemy and he will flee from you.

oh please caramel!!!can you kindly explain that verse? was there any recorded conversation with the holy spirit? or is peter in that particular scenerio the holy spirit? could ananias not have lied to god in that instance instead of the holy spirit?maybe my question is who is the holy spirit?

@bari_kade,

i meant that you may have repented, and one day while reading your bible, you realise that you had blasphemed at a certain time!!! that would waiver your faith wont it?

Aproko:
i don't mean to challenge your christain growth my dear, i only want you to ask yourself this - 'is that what the book says or what i have been told?' (again thesilent 1, please forgive my intrusion on your copy right signature)

i guess i fancy that quote simply because a lot of what we believe is what we have been made to see by our pastors, seminars e.t.c. am not saying it applies to you, so i guess i was just wandering out loud. i apologise if its offensive cos non was intended.

@ topic,

otuwe has hit the nail on the head. the sin against the holy spirit cannot be forgiven, why? because the holy spirit is the arm of justice i.e. it simply executes the law of creation that says you reap what you sow!!

now it doesnt mean you are sentenced to 'death row', it simply means you must reap whatever you sow!!!

ever since i came across this discovery and so many others, believe me my perception about life, religion, love e.t.c have changed and i think i am the better for it.

@ cyl,

believe me, he would not kill himself. hes just enjoying the fact that he can be stingy and get away with it.

if your sister doesnt love him anymore, then she should free the stingy man!!!!

@ bari_kade,

are you saying everybody has read the bible? come on my brother!!!1 my point is that there are people that have never come across the bible wether we agree or not, again my dear, not everybody can read and understand the bible clearly!!!

so again i dare ask, what if you do not deliberately vilify the holy spirit?
again i ask, if i am on the 'holy spirit death row' (forgive my plagiarism thesilent 1) what then is the point of repentance? i.e. accepting jesus as my lord and saviour and trying to live by his word?

i dont mean to challenge your christain growth my dear, i only want you to ask yourself this - 'is that what the book says or what i have been told?' (again thesilent 1, please forgive my intrusion on your copy right signature)

drusilla,

does it mean we become two when we pass on? i.e. one of us (our spirit) goes to be with God, and the other (our dust and dry bones which is about to arise) waits for judgment?

if yes, does it mean nobody goes to hell? or what if the part of us that is awaiting judgment fails the judgment test meanwhile the other part is with God already so what happens?

otuwe:
a christain is a person who believes and is convinced about the message of Christ and who strives to live by it.

it has nothing to do with denomination, or Christ' blood or any other thing,


someone who doesnt go to church can be a christain if he is Christ-like.

well said. no more no less!!!

@ topic,

is 'jumping up and down' referring to the prayer session in some churches? cos i dont think the catholics and anglicans 'jump up and down'

well since the bible says the violent shall take it by force, i guess 'jumping up and down' is part of being violent and therefore taking things by force!!!

thanks for this article. hope a lot of us are reading and learning!!!

davou4eva:
i mean do u have to contact prophets with names of your intending partners

LMAO

i think they call them house of prayer people!!!!

my dear, if you know whats good for you, you had better pray on your own, get to know the person you intend to marry and you'll know if she's the sort to take home to mama.

you better not waste your money with those prophets cos they only tell you what you want to hear.

ok babs, every religion has them.

and i totally support wealth creation seminars for muslim, even though i dont see the reason why they cant attend any wealth creation seminar they come across if it will be useful to them.

@ thesilent1,

the man was a terrorist in the cloak of a pastor!!!! he did too many numerous 'sins' to be mentioned. apparently the 10 commandments to him was just something moses wrote in stone, and what the heck that stone must be missing by now!!

the truth is a lot of nigerians and africans indeed are very gullible, they would do anything for the promised miracle, they end up worshipping the pastor instead of God and that is always the beginning of their downfall.

for your info, rev. king insists he didn't do any thing wrong and his god will vindicate him. so lets see how it goes.

Drusilla:
Our spirit returns to God. Our bodies go to the grave to await the resurrection.

so you mean the dust in the grave will ressurect? please enlighten me.

bari_kade:
However, a warning is given against a deliberate exercise to vilify the Holy Spirit - and that is the sin that has no forgiveness.

so what if the 'vilification' of the holy spirit is not deliberate? is it still counted as a sin against the holy spirit?

and pardon my ignorance, but if the holy spirit is part of the trinity, i.e. one with God as we  christains believe, why will sin against the holy spirit not be forgiven? and do you have bible verses specifying what those sins are?

and again, if the sin against the holy spirit cannot be forgiven, does it mean even if a person accepts jesus christ as the lord and savoiur that person is still hell bound?

onyex:
2)We should keep the hearth of our thoughts pure"KEEP THE HEARTH OF YOUR THOUHTS PURE,BY DOING SO YOU WOULD BRING PEACE AND BE HAPPY(AWAKE-LECTURE 5,THE GRAIL MESSAGE)because our thoughts are our(man's)greatest enemy,it is a lie!

does the Grail Message say our thots are our greatest enemies? or you added that part? and please what is the lie? i dont get you here.

that depends on the person that has just passed on, could be the region of ligt or the region of darkness and damnation.

muhsin:
@Aproko,
In my own narrow perception and comprehension, I think there are numerous ways which the existance of God can be proven. ie
Think of water/rain; who does control its falling?
Trees or rather plants, how are they growing?
Think of life and death, who could do such or provide 'em?
Think of our own existance; who provides us with the air to resperate?
And host more, are these not some proves concerning existance of God?

Thanks

mushin, if you want to have an argument with the logical thinkers, you would actually loose. our belief in jesus and God is actually called faith - the evidence of things hoped for and the assurance of things not seen.

scientist have an answer for everything but the concept of God, that is why the debate will go on and on. maybe someday, there will be a logical explanation for God but till then enjoy their arguments.

Aproko:
@ thoniaslim,

sorry, i meant the silent 1. i guess when i like the name thoniaslim.

@ thoniaslim,

reverend king is the pastor of a certain church in lagos(cant remember the name). he took delight in sexually abusing his female members, some had to serve his meals naked, some were set on fire who burnt to death for commiting unholy acts e.t.c.

@ topic,

he has been sentenced to death, but he has a right of appeal so i guess right about now he is trying to appeal.

babs787:
Did you mean alms?

yes, i meant alms.

i dont think alms should be equated to tithes cos the tithes are for the church (not sure if the church here actually means the pastor ).

but somehow i noticed that a lot of muslims have focused on the part that says give alms at their own detriment. so i actually encourage wealth creation seminars for muslims so that those begging for alms can get up and work and for once be the givers.