₦airaland Forum

lexy2014:
It doesn't dude. Which staff was raised when Mary became pregnant 4 Jesus? If it was by staff, then u won't have moses saying what he said Exodus 14:14 and 21. Again read Exodus 33:15-16. Moses explained what he needed to succeed. He didn't mention staff.

Read Genesis 39:-2-3 and 39:21-23. Moses staff isn't what made d difference. D scripture is very clear.

Since u said it is by works, u still haven't been able to say y sex alone couldn't produce kids for Abraham and Sarah, Jacob and Rachel and Elkanah and Hannah? Or were they not having enough sex?

I said it is by faith and work. I never said it is by works alone.

You obviously have not been reading my posts. I have emphasized the saying: Faith without work is dead

How you can still conclude that I meant only works was necessary is beyond me.

Mary's case is a one-off incident, so stop mentioning it as an example.

And you are either too ignorant or are deliberately refusing to understand me.

Two things worked on the Red Sea:

Moses's rod and God's power. Moses stretching out his rod was the effort that God crowned.

Tell me, why did God have to make Moses stretch out his rod? Why didn't God just perform the miracle straight off?

eni4real:
Say that again when any American hold TD Jakes responsible for any challenges facing their Country !!!

Below is an American calling our prosperity preachers for using their prosperity theology to further worsen the American situation:

We see its influence spreading, nationally and internationally, as televangelists and celebrity ministers with their megachurches preach its basic tenets. In black America, this theology overtakes calls for economic empowerment. Freedom dreams are supplanted by the aspiration to wealth, a theology that suits a vision of capitalism that is devastating our communities and country.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/06/25/has-capitalism-become-incompatible-with-christianity/too-many-black-churches-preach-the-gospel-of-greed

eni4real:
Religion leaders are not elected to rule in democracy... This is not Iran which practice something that look like Theocracy!!!

They are not involved in budget, staffing, organizations, employment in Government parastatals etc....


They are just religious leaders... They are not Political Godfathers too..

Boko Haram are killing/abducting, Shite are relentless, minimum wages are not really paid, inflation is happening, senators are too enriched, unemployment is skyrocketing,... Nigeria has their elected politicians to hold responsible..

Nobody holds TD Jake's responsibe for any United States problems... Nobody!!

But Nigerians will prefer to flex thier muscles on a Pastor post rather than facing their lifeless political leaders!!!

Don't you know that religion is an agent of socialization and social control?

Did you people go to school at all

lexy2014:
Oga, there's no where in d Bible that say moses used his rod to part d red sea. if it is in ur Bible, pls show it to me.

U have still failed to answer d questions i asked. B4 Sarah had Isaac, was she not having sex with Abraham? Y did d sex not produce children all d while? When Rachel was barren, was Jacob not having sex with her? When Hannah was barren was Elkanah not having sex with her? Y did d sex alone not produce children?

If women can give birth post menopause, is it because of lack of sex that they didn't have children b4 menopause?

Whether Mary having Jesus was a one off or not, is that not breaking protocol? I thought u said God doesn't break protocol? Am also glad that u called them miracles, whether they have been replicated or not. What is a miracle? Is it not protocol being broken?

I have said this over and over, but u seem to b running away from it

Raise your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea to divide the water so that the Israelites can go through the sea on dry ground. (Exodus 14:16)

The above verse addresses the other questions you raised.

eni4real:
Nigeria is not ruled by Pastors.. Ask your President and your money grabbing senators what they offer Nigeria!!!

Don't be scared to challenge the right people...

There are many types of leaders. There are two notable ones in Nigeria whose words have major influences: Religious and political leaders.

You can't exonerate religious leaders from the mess that the country is in today. Both political and religious leaders have failed the country.

UncletC:
God has been bending medical protocols , scientific protocols, educational protocols, economic protocols etc to achieve his purpose. God overrule human protocol when he wants to act.
You don't read your Bible if at all you are a Christian.

Adeboye talked about protocols and criteria in terms of promotion.

You people have ended up expanding it to including miracles such as the parting of the Red Sea or the story of Mary.

Please, let us try and stay on the topic.

God does not bend protocols and criteria in the regard of what Adeboye was talking about. Rather, He crowns efforts however small.

lexy2014:
No its not a miracle. It is nepotism. Cos when u are asking for Gods help and intervention, it is nepotism and corruption.

Pls tell me who had sex with Mary b4 she had Jesus? So y did sex not produce children 4 all d years sarah and abraham were married? When Rachel was barren, was Jacob not having sex with her? When Hannah was barren was Elkanah not having sex with her? Y did d sex alone not produce children? Who made Moses rod effective in his hand? Was it Moses? If d rod was d miracle worker, then moses didn't need God. Exodus 14:14 and 21. Moses didn't use his rod to part d red sea. That's not what d Bible said. It clearly shows that u aren't even informed about what u saying.

Pls read Exodus 33:15-16. That was d difference

If you have been assured by God that you would pass an examination. If you decide not to sit for the exams, would you pass?

If Moses didn't use the rod, would the Sea have been parted? If Abraham did not have sex with Sarah, would the miracle child have happened?

I didn't say the rod of Moses was the miracle worker, but rather that God encourages some form of effort from us which He then crowns with success.

As for Mary, it is a one-off incident that has never been replicated.

The other miracles have been replicated.

Today, women can give birth post menopause.

eni4real:
Everyone that get a good grasp of faith understands what the prayer point is all about..

Semantics cannot explain that prayer point...

The pastor does not have to write a full chapter on bible passages on Twitter before he would come with a prayer point on God's favor!!!

If he can't word his prayer points well, then he would be liable to mislead many people.

That is why people have a lot weird expectations because of prayer points like this. That was why a man would jump into a lion's den like that Prophet Daniel who entered the lion's den of his own accord at the UI zoo.

eni4real:
The prayer point is not out of place... It has nothing do with tempting God.. Unless we want to be applying grammar and semantics to prayer points...

It is clearly about favour... Simple...

Being a first class guy does not guarantee you a high level of success.. That is life..

Some 2nd class guys are still jobless out there..

Don't say entrepreneurship... You need money for capital and not everyone can dabble to business like that...

If these set of people are praying for God's favour in their interviews, and they got the job, are you saying they will not be productive because they only got the job by God's favor..

Do you know the number of people that actually passed interviews but get poorly placed or don't even get any job at all??

Favour will never dampen your ability to be productive... In fact, it will encourage to reach for the sky..

People are hating anything that has to be God on daily basis.. That is their problem.. Even after all the generations of Nigerian Christians are not more.. And another Christian leader emerge, God's favor will always remain a prayer point... That is the truth...

People are scared of facing their corrupt politicians but are bold enough to ridicule what pastors say... Who are shooting themselves in the legs here??

Atheist, Agnostics, indifferents will never learn

Sorry, we are not discussing unemployment or being employable.

Being a first class graduate does not necessarily mean you are employable. So, it doesn't work in this regard.

However, we are discussing the bending of existing protocols.

A man of God should emphasize the Biblical wisdom of faith with work rather than being concerned with bending protocols in a country struggling with nepotism. It doesn't speak well of God, and it doesn't speak truthfully about God.

lexy2014:
I quoted Genesis 39:1-3. U haven't been able to debunk it with one scripture. I quoted Genesis 39:21-23, u haven't been able to debunk it with one scripture. I quoted Isaiah 43:3-4, u still haven't been able to debunk it. D question I have asked and u still dancing round is what if God didn't do what he did 4 Joseph in d scriptures I quoted, would he have emerged prime minister on d basis of his effort and hardwork alone? Uptill now u don't have an answer to d question.

In Isaiah 43:19, God talked about waters springing forth in d desert and making a way were there's no way. That is breaking protocol because waters don't naturally spring forth in d desert. God parted d red sea. No amount of effort on d part of moses and d children of Israel could have parted d red sea. That is breaking protocol. Sarah had passed d age of child birth, menopause. But she had a child. That is breaking protocol.

All those are acts of miracles, not nepotism.

They were virtually forces beyond man, and which God is the sole dependant factor of rescue.

It is not the same as reaping where you did not sow.

Moreover, supposing Moses had failed to use his rod or Abraham had not the faith he is known for and decided not to have sex with Sarah, what do you think would have happened?

eni4real:
People are gradually losing faith in God..

They do not want to hear anything has to do with God favour..
Only few percent will come plainly as a Atheists

Many agnostics in Nigeria now...

Anybody that has faith in God will not disagree with that prayer point!!!

People are not losing faith in God. It is rather people losing their understanding of what faith means.

You have to understand the Bible to be able to demonstrate God's love.

If you don't understand the Bible, and you try to demonstrate God's love to atheists, they would think that God encourages sowing where we have not reaped when it was in fact God that instituted the phenomenon of reaping only what you sow.

You cannot sow banana and expect God to bend protocols so that you can reap coconut or cocoa trees.

God is not a magician. If Jesus did not have a proper understanding of God's words, He would have jumped when the Devil asked Him to. After all, it was truly said that God would send angels to prevent him from dashing His feet against stones. Why didn't Jesus jump?

Have faith in God, but don't tempt God.

lexy2014:
And who said anything about lack of effort? Now u said "God crowned Josephs effort with success". D question which u have failed to answer is what if God didn't crown Josephs effort with success? What would have happened to him? What if what happened in Genesis 39:2-3 and verses 21-23 didn't happen, would his effort and hardwork landed him in d palace?

So if am picking scriptures in isolation, pick ur own scriptures urself. So far, u haven't been able to do that. Isaiah 43:3-4 still stares u in d face. Like I told u earlier, if someone shows u favour based on Isaiah 43:3-4, pls turn it down. I don't c were d controversy is

God does not bend protocols and criteria, He crowns efforts.

The criteria for getting a result is to at least sit for the exam. You didn't sit for the exam, and you expect God to bend the criteria and give you a result.

Moreover, a pastor should rather have asked people to work harder, to avail themselves of opportunities, and pray to God to crown their efforts. There are many Bible verses to support God crowning efforts, rather than reinforcing laziness.

eni4real:
This is the kind of topic that NL atheists love to flex their muscles on...

The prayer is audible to the deaf and visible to the blind... There is no controversy here.. . It is a clear cut prayer point...

All these keyboard experts sef

Some generalizing.

It is not everyone opposed to the prayer that is an atheist.

lexy2014:
Am I d author of Isaiah 43:3-4? Pls take ur grievances to d author Isaiah 43:3-4. If u don't like what d scripture says, then move along. So far, u haven't been able to debunk d scriptures. U just arguing without any basis

I am tired of examining scriptures picked and read in isolation.

Every favor God granted came after the person had put in some effort either in good character or in hardwork.

It supports my argument that God crowns efforts, not a lack of effort.

gymer:
I know of somebody who prayed this kind of prayer, and for the first time in his organization, he was made the head of a department when he was not yet at the grade level to become an head of a department. He was later promoted to that grade level the following year. The things of God are foolishness to the unsaved.

And you have concluded that protocols and criteria were bent in his favor?

Do you know how promotions work?

Do you know that there are people who pray this type of prayer and have not been promoted in many years? Of course, there are. You see them complaining and wasting hours in church asking for promotion. They fail to balance faith with work.

lexy2014:
D same thing we are saying. Pls debunk Isaiah 43:3-4 and when someone shows u favour, pls reject it. It that so difficult?

You should ask for favor, not encourage corruption.

It is never God's intentions to encourage nepotism. God did not just choose Abraham out of nepotism. He singled Abraham out because Abraham was a good man.

He didn't single Noah out, he chose Noah because he was a good man.

To find favor with God, you must have done your own work.

You want to pass an exam, at least, read hard and give out your best in the exams. Even if you can't answer all the questions, do the ones you know, and try and put some effort. Then, you can start praying to God to make you find favor in the eyes of the person that would mark your paper(s). You have already found favor in the eyes of God with your effort.

God crowns efforts, He doesn't crown a lack of effort.

lexy2014:
Genesis 39:2-3; Genesis 39:21-23

The Bible was recorded from the perspective of the writer, not the prison warden.

What the prison warden saw was a Joseph who always had success in whatever he did. You can't but trust a man who is hardworking.

Joseph was hardworking. God crowned his efforts by making sure his works always had success.

If Joseph was lazy and carefree, you think he would have found favor even in the eyes of God?

lexy2014:
Then tell God that he was encouraging nepotism and favouritism in Isaiah 43:3-4. And when someone shows u favour, pls reject it

Oh, has He given them Egypt till this day? The Promised Land was given to them on a platter of gold, right? They didn't work for it. The people simply fled when they saw the Israelites? The Israelites did not fight series of war against the Canaanites. War protocols was simply broken and the Israelites just went into Canaan and took the land.

lexy2014:
Potiphar didn't allow Joseph into his household. He bought Joseph as a slave and Joseph worked for him as a slave. Slaves have ranks in a household and Joseph was d head slave. That didn't make him any less a slave.

Like I noted earlier, slaves were properties and items in those irrespective of d level of liberty of d rulers. Add prisoner to d mix, u are worse off in terms of life chances in such societies.

Then go back to Isaiah 43:3-4 which u haven't been able debunk as a lie since that is d basis of d prayer prayed by adeboye

So, now, you are trying to demean Joseph's position in Portipher's house by saying he was merely the head slave?

My Bible said Portipher put Joseph in charge of his household and everything he owned. Joseph worked in administrative capacity.

Doesn't look like a mere head slave to me.

lexy2014:
Pls read Isaiah 43:3-4. Then ur issue about potiphar and Joseph, take a look at this:

Maybe u missed this. On protocols, I believe I have addressed that already

I have explained to you that Joseph's hardwork spoke for him. His alleged bad deed also spoke against him.

There is a balance in life. Portipher rewarded him for his good deeds, but when he was accused of a bad deed, he fell out of favor.

There are rewards and punishment for everything. Stop encouraging nepotism, corruption and favoritism.

lexy2014:
Very much sir, protocols were broken. In those days, foreigners were third class citizens. Now add slave and prisoner to mix, that's down d line in societal hierarchy. Even in today's society, d stigma of being a prisoner is hard to break how much more those days. Slaves were considered items and properties. They weren't seen as human beings with rights or worth. They were acquired and disposed off like garbage. So my dear, a lot of protocols were broken

Bro, say only what you know.

How foreigners were treated in those days depended on the ruler. The Pharoah during Joseph's time was very liberal unlike the one that God dealt with. Some rulers hated slaves, some were liberal and even allowed slaves head their household. Portipher let Joseph head his household at a time.

There were no fixed rules on how foreigners were regarded.

Go to history, and you would find stories of slaves or peasants who became kings and emperors.

lexy2014:
With all Josephs hardwork, y did his master not over rule d wife and insist on keeping Joseph? If d prayer adeboye prayed is a childish prayer point, then in Isaiah 43:3-4 that I quoted, God made childish promises.

D question u have failed to answer is how does a slave, a foreigner and a prisoner just automatically quality to be a prime minister just because of "impeccable record"?

Did you realize that Joseph's hardwork made Portipher put him in charge of his household?

Joseph fell out of favor because Portipher thought he was a bad person. Only bad persons try to force themselves on women.

As for prime minister, there were no set rules for becoming prime minister in those days. There were no evidence that there was even a prime minister before Joseph. All we know is that Pharoah probably carved out that office to manage the economic crisis that Joseph predicted.

Joseph was chosen because he had shown wisdom by suggesting ways to manage the crisis. He was the most qualified to occupy that position.

lexy2014:
D prayer doesn't make anyone lazy. If u want to b lazy, u will still b lazy. I have shown u scripture that supports d prayer so I don't no what u arguing. Even Joseph u referring is a product of that prayer. Or can u tell me how a foreign slave qualified to b PM of Egypt?

There was no set qualifications for prime minister in Egypt. The law was decided by Pharoah.

So, no existing protocols were broken or bent for Joseph. He did not only interpret Pharoah's dreams, he also suggested a very wise way of dealing with the coming crisis.

It was not unusual in those days for Kings to reward people for doing something important for them.

AverageAnnie:
Happy birthday babe.. more flesh to u dear

My kind of woman. Very witty

Threebear:
Hope he treats this one better than he did the first .

Heard he emotionally and physically his first wife .

Dear second wife know that the same broom used to kill the cockroach will also be used to kill the rat .

You heard. It means you are not sure or certain.

So, what is the essence of giving the advice about brooms and cockroaches?

lexy2014:
That is y I insist that u didn't read my comment. If u did, u would see where everything about ur doctor/patient analogy was adequately addressed. Bottom line, consent and abuse don't fit into d same sentence. They are two parallel lines

You didn't address the doctor-patient relationship.

Abuse and consent can actually go together.

Let me break it down for you in very simple English.

When a doctor, pastor, lecturer or someone with reasonable amount of authority, goes into a sexual relationship with someone supposedly under their care, the law regards the relationship as unbalanced. At least in medical laws, the patient (the person under care) can technically not give consent as her consent might be totally influenced by a desire to please whomever has that authority over her. In other words, she might be blinded by anything other than true consent. It might be respect, desire not to offend, and all that, all misinterpreted as love.

Remove Biodun's pastoral authority over Ese, and the scenario might not even be close to being similar. Tell a woman to come visit you in a hotel, and you might get an unfavorable answer even if your intentions weren't sexual. But be a pastor and invite a woman from your church to meet you in a hotel. There is a high chance that she would come, even if not for anything, she would come out of respect.

In other words, many laws about conduct of people and those under them always emphasize a lack of balance in the relationship between someone in a position of authority and the person under them. They believe that the person with authority has some undue advantage just like an adult (a pedophile) has over his victim (a minor).

Blisplendor12:
Even Esther In the Bible experienced it, God please break protocols for my sake

God did not break protocols for Esther, He only crowned Esther's efforts.

Xerxes was looking for a young, beautiful woman of good character. His former wife Vashti was young and beautiful but of bad character. Esther fulfilled all the criteria. No protocol was bent in her favor.

If she was ugly or of bad character, Xerxes wouldn't have noticed her.

Joseph had the gift of prophesy and had even used it to interpret the dream of Pharoah's chief cupbearer which later came to pass as Joseph had interpreted. It was this cupbearer who advertised Joseph's gift to Pharoah.

So, my dear, God does not break protocols and criteria, He only crowns our efforts.

If Esther was rude like Vashti, Xerxes would never have noticed her even though she was more beautiful than Vashti.

If Joseph had not helped the cupbearer interpret his dream and if the dream had not come to pass, the cupbearer wouldn't have trusted Joseph well enough to talk about him to Pharoah.

The Bible says Faith without work is dead

Litmus:
Are posts regularly this well observed simply because Nigerians were being deported from a Nation or is this really about condemning a Nigerian tradition and ways based on ethnicity ?

I don't understand what you mean by are posts regularly this well observed

All I know is that spraying money is not solely a Nigerian tradition. There are others, especially African Americans, who spray dollars too. They call it make it rain

Litmus:
posts stated, 80 Nigerians Deported From Indonesia For Spraying Money On Pastor Odumeje

You ought to know that bloggers go for sensational titles.

Next time, read the content of the news, not just the title. It is clearly stated there why the fellows were deported.

The only role the money spraying played was that it drew attention to the stupid fellows and attracted the law.

But the guys were not deported because they sprayed money. They were deported because they were undocumented immigrants.

Litmus:
What offence did they commit?

Nawa for you o.

They called them undocumented immigrants.

Undocumented means that they are living in the country illegally.

Litmus:
Lol, what victim? I am making statements of pride in my culture and the need for Nigerians to hold on to their culture since I recognise that, ultimately this post is a backdoor way of attacking the Nigeria cultural practice of “Dashing” and you’re responding to me in an accusatory form I don’t recognise. For your info, I don’t care for Indonesian actions of deporting foreigners since I do not rate Indonesians. They can deport whomever they wish, it is their country and whatever reasons they give for deporting anyone are Indonesian reasons based on Indonesian truths not universal or Nigerian truths, so why would I feel a victim? The people mean nothing to me. I’m not going to visit Indonesia, will not marry an Indonesian, I don’t party with them, have none of them among my circle of friends, don’t attend functions where they are present, don’t eat their food, don’t like their women, cant even picture in my minds eye where on the world map Indonesia is located and need to consult map everytime in order to be sure…

Instead of considering the offence they have committed or have been charged with, you are claiming an attack on your culture.

Didn't you read that the fellows were undocumented immigrants who had neither work visas nor permits?

Litmus:
So-called “Spraying Money” is a Nigerian tradition that the world tried to sanction Nigerians from doing but failed and now many of them are copying. It is now a tradition, slowly becoming a part of international urban and popular culture and for which Nigerians should be proud. The lesson to draw from this is, hold on to your cultural practices, foods, music, dresses, ceremonies and so on. Be proud of them even in the face of foreign condemnations and attempted sanctions, eventually the world will copy you. Remember that the World attacks on African ways and culture are visages of industrial methods used to enslave Africa by the European powers.

Always playing the victim's card.

Didn't you read the reason why they were deported?