₦airaland Forum

obadiah777: no human lives forever. not even in the kingdom. sorry to burst your bubble . what part of the scripture did you see humans living forever ?

Revelation 21:1-4
New International Version (NIV)
A New Heaven and a New Earth

1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a
new earth,”[a] for the first heaven
and the first earth had passed
away, and there was no longer any
sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new
Jerusalem, coming down out of
heaven from God, prepared as a
bride beautifully dressed for her
husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice
from the throne saying, “Look!
God’s dwelling place is now among
the people, and he will dwell with
them. They will be his people, and
God himself will be with them and
be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every
tear from their eyes. There will be
no more death’ or mourning or
crying or pain, for the old order of
things has passed away.”

sorry to burst your blom blom .

Death will be no more. Who will do the killing when death has been destroyed?

obadiah777: no human lives forever. not even in the kingdom. sorry to burst your bubble . what part of the scripture did you see humans living forever ?

Revelation 21:1-4
New International Version (NIV)
A New Heaven and a New Earth

1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a
new earth,”[a] for the first heaven
and the first earth had passed
away, and there was no longer any
sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new
Jerusalem, coming down out of
heaven from God, prepared as a
bride beautifully dressed for her
husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice
from the throne saying, “Look!
God’s dwelling place is now among
the people, and he will dwell with
them. They will be his people, and
God himself will be with them and
be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every
tear from their eyes. There will be
no more death’ or mourning or
crying or pain, for the old order of
things has passed away.”

sorry to burst your blom blom .

Death will be no more. Who will do the killing when death has been destroyed?

italo: Yes, we have recordings of traditions passed to us, not by the epistles in the Bible, but by word of mouth from the Apostles and early church fathers.

Are you lying or you're joking? Is this what you are taught to do?

SMH in waterproof!!

How can italo be telling me a truthful impossibility biko nu? Don't you know its like telling someone that you have the pictures of jesus.

I don't need what your fathers say. I want to hear the sound of apostle Paul's voice.

Ubenedictus: first of all can a live serpent hear?

Just go close to a live anaconda and do sssssss! Make i see who go first pick race.

So answer the question.

Ubenedictus: i know about 3 pipo with the title pope, d alexandria patriach is called pope, d coptic patriach is pope and the roman patriarch is pope, d 3 have icon in their churches, so which of them is d pope u want to accuse?

The one that kneel before the wooden image of a woman.

vickyO: @bookmark, i'll answer on the catholics behalf and the answer is no.

lol...

They no gree answer the question.

obadiah777: AND JESUS IS NOT A PEACEFUL MAN. I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU GOT THAT FROM. THE LORD IS A MAN OF WAR ( EXODUS 15 VS 3 ). CHRIST SAID WHEN HE RETURNS, I AM COME NOT TO BRING PEACE BUT I AM COME WITH A SWORD TO SLAUGHTER ALL MY ENEMIES <<< DONT SOUND PEACEFUL TO ME.

SO EVERYTHING GOING ON IN GAZA, THE LORD IS IN CHARGE OF THAT.

HOWEVER I DO AGREE WITH YOU WHEN YOU SAY THOSE IGNORANT AFRICANS BLINDLY SUPPORTING THE LAND OF ISRAEL ARE NINCOMPO-OPS. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE STANDS OF AN INTELLIGENT BLACK MAN >>> NEUTRALITY. LET MY ENEMIES WIPE EACH OTHER OUT

King James 2000 Bible
(©2003)
Luke 3:14
And the soldiers likewise
asked of him, saying, And
what shall we do? And he
said unto them, Do
violence to no man,
neither accuse any falsely;
and be content with your
wages.

DO VIOLENCE TO NO MAN.
This is what Christ demands from us.

Who are the enemies of Christ? The Pharisees? Christ and His apostles would have set an example on how to make war or teach us how to do it before He is gone.

War is not for Christians. Christians are not to rejoice in the killing of people but to pray for their repentance.

obadiah777: ISAIAH CHAPTER 65 VS 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

I thought we are going to rejoice forever in what our God is creating. So what is v20 saying? That people will die afterall?

obadiah777: SO TO ANSWER THE INITIAL QUESTION-THE SWEETEST THING WILL BE THE SWEETEST THING TO YOU NOW WHICH IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW BECAUSE ITS THE SAME EARTH. WE WILL EAT DRINK MAKE MERRY HAVE WIVES AND KIDS, GROW VERY OLD ( AS OLD AS TREES ) BEFORE WE TRANSLATE INTO THE SPIRIT WORLD FOR REST. ALL THESE WE WILL DO IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. THE LEADERSHIP OF THE WORLD WILL BE RIGHTEOUS SO IT WILL BE A RIGHTEOUS WORLD.

What do you mean by the bolded? Do you have any scriptural backup for it.

The same applies to Christians who support war in any form. Whether as a church or as an individual. They are happy to kill.

Those who say it is right for Christians to join the army should take note.

italo: To be frank, I am neither in support of, nor against Israel. I feel tremendous sorrow for what is happening to the people of Gaza. However, the Israelis and the Arabs have deep seated hatred for each-other. Each is as wicked as the other. Even history and recent world events have shown that Arabs (perhaps, their religion is a factor) are more wicked than Israel. At least Israelis mind their business and don't go after people who have nothing to do with them. My sentiments used to tilt the Palestinian way until this Boko Haram issue started in Nigeria. Anytime the JTF wage an offensive, some people say they are killing civillians. But this civillians are passively or actively in support of the militant group. The same thing with Gaza. Who is a militant and who is not? I tell you, if Israel weren't the "bully", these Arabs would have annihilated them long ago.

Again, I am neither in support of, nor against either party.

I fully recognize the Palestinians right to fight for what they consider to be their land and rights.

Hmm...

nne3870: @serialink.. i have seen you quote this verse of the bible over 50 times and i ask, is that the only meaning to the scripture? i dislike frosbel but for once he himself has realised that their is more to christianity than just reading the scripture for the purpose of bashing other's on nairaland.the scripture should change you first, dont just be interested in bashing, judging, and arguing with others while you soul is not even right with God

dont try to remove a speck in someones eyes while ignoring the wood in yours.peace

The verse seriallink quoted is a very nice one unles you have a skeleton in your cupboard.

The scripture is given for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness, 1Tim 3:16. For correction in righteousness is what frosbel's post is trying to emphasize. Others should not be neglected.

Where it is bad is when i tell you that you worship idol while i have "otumokpo" under my pillow.

italo: CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE TRANSLATE THIS TO ENGLISH OR PIDGIN?

what do you mean by Christian teachings that are not in the bible? Do you have have recordings of the oral ones done by the apostles?

ijawkid: Did you participate in those 3nity threads??.....they were indeed WAR.....

See fight......!!!!!!.......««»»X...........

I have learnt how to end that war quick quick before it starts. The pilot test was done in "another look at trinity." when you start refuting them from their definition of trinity using the scripture, it wount enter the next stage.

I was asked to go and consult a spirit which i don't know if it is the Holyspirit. I know the Holy spirit is true and will tell us the truth according to the word of God.

Does any one have anything to say about Hebrew 1:5?

BARRISTERS: @Boomark, you do have a good point in hebrew 1;5, however we still need to debate that and reconcile with other stronger proofs, i think logically you are are very consistent.

in Daniel 10:13, why is your own bible using princes and not archangels, can you give your own comment?

If you Google Da 10:13, you will see various translations from 'bible.cc.' I use NWT and NKJV, both gave me one of the 'foremost princes and chief princes.' I also saw 'archangels' in some other translations.

When Michael rises, there are things he does. He will protect and stand for the saints at that time from satan. Christ will not do everything alone. His angels have roles they will. Michael will rise because he is mighty and he has a great role to play at that time.


Hebrew1:5
New International Version
(©1984)
For to which of the angels
did God ever say, "You are
my Son; today I have
become your Father"? Or
again, "I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son"?

New Living Translation
(©2007)
For God never said to any
angel what he said to
Jesus: "You are my Son.
Today I have become your
Father." God also said, "I
will be his Father, and he
will be my Son."

Hebrew will not accept an angel being the 'Son.' It is not my fault. We still come back to this point even after making the "shout", "voice of an archangel" and "the trumpet of God", Michaels.

plappville: 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of
the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
In this verse actually, there are two possible meanings to the text: 1) it seem to us that it is the archangel that is shouting and not Jesus.
(2) the archangel could be shoutin for Jesus or (2) Jesus could be doing the shouting Himself and using the voice of an archangel because He is the Archangel.

Now lets see what Christ said when He was on Earth in John 5:25-29. I will take only verse 25.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall
hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Honestly, if we compare the two scripture texts above, we see a tight case for supporting seeing Michael as Jesus.

We ve seen that ther were two possible meanings to: "the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel's voice" 1 Thessalonians 4:16. They are: meaning (1) stated above or meaning (2) But for you which one is?

Lets look at John 5:25,28: "the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God". Equally saying (they will hear Jesus shouting abi?)
In 1 Thessalonians, its the archangel's voice, but in John (5), it is the voice of the Son of God!
One cannot be wrong and the other right. The bible does not contradict itself.

Also, both Thesalonians and John we see that the voice causes the "resurrection of life".
The dead in Christ will rise whn they hear His voice!
This is the same event it points that Jesus and Michae must be the same person. Isn't this plain enough?

Na bible talk am not anyone. It does not contradict itself.

My dear the way you put it there is not the way it is. Why not say also "with a commanding shout of the trumpet of God." It doesn't make sense.

A shout: transmits His voice which the dead will hear and rise First.

Voice of an arch angel: leads, commands the armies of heaven.

Trumpet of God: has it own function and those that blow it.

Will He do all these things and also blow the trumpet?

truthislight: so, it is the trumpet that will do the resurrection?
*sigh*

Did i say that?

Is the shout=trumpet?

truthislight: my friend, from the scriptures above what did the angel called michael?


"but Michael your prince"
^^^
this is a reference to the prince of the people of daniel, and Daniel was a Jew.

Who is the prince of the people of Daniel(Israel)?

isaiah 9:6
"he shall be called "prince" of peace"

so, the prince of the people of Daniel(is michael = Jesus christ)

and it is he that stands for "his" people.

You also know that their are other prince(s), Da 10:13. Prince of the people, of Persia and of peace are not the same thing.

He 'shall' be called prince of peace.... But Michael 'is' the prince of the people.

If Michael is an angel, Hebrew 1:5 shows that an angel was not chosen as the Son of God.

ijawkid: 1.....Jesus pre-existed because he was the beginning of Gods creation.........he had to pre-exist because God saw that he pre-exists like every other spirit creature in heaven,but Jesus being the first of them all....

2.....Jesus pre-existed as a spirit,a heavenly being(not part of a trinity).........he has always been the son of GOD....he is Gods First born......

3....Nobody is arguing that Jesus wasn't born as a man to live here on earth and die for us,all what we are saying is that Jesus had lived in heaven before he's descending to the earth through mary...............

Scriptural evidence proves that.....

@ john 3;13 Jesus said ::::

New International Version (©1984)
No one has ever gone into heaven except the
one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.
_____________________

John 1:18 also says a lot of Jesus' pre-existence before his descending to the earth..

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
No man has seen God at any time; the only
begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the
Father, he has declared him.
__________________
Jesus could explain Yahweh so well not only because he was filled with Gods spirit,but also because he had lived in heaven close to his Father prior to his coming to the earth.....

On points!

alexleo: Trinity simply means God the father, Son and Holy Spirit being one and its in the bible.

Yes they are all one just as the body of Christ(church) is also one with Christ. Trinity can't define that oneness.

So your church believe that they have one God who is the Father?

frosbel: sorry I have been a little busy recently, however you can find a useful article [url=http://www.christianmonotheism.com/media/text/1-11.%20AGENT%20OF%20NEW%20CREATION.pdf]HERE[/url]

I am not disagreeing for disagreement sake, all the evidence in scripture does not support this theory that Jesus is an angel. It's almost blasphemy !!

Can't open pdf file with my phone. I think you have referred me to that site before. When i asked you similar question on your thread about Christ pre-existence but could not get anything tangible from the site.

I remember i was 1st or 2nd to post on that thread.

I identified the "one having the likeness of the sons on men" in Da 10;16,18 as Gabriel. He is responsible for making Daniel understand the vision, Da 8:16, 9:21-22, 10:21.

This has not changed anything as regards the topic but we now know that the one in Da 10:21 is not Christ.

Hebrew 1:5 is still not supporting an angel being the begotten son of God.

@frosbel

How about Him being the 1st born of creation and that all things where made through Him.

chukwudi44: Heb 1:14

What are the angels then? There are spirits who serve God and are sent by him to help those who are to receive salvation.

Shee una don see the biblical description of angels.To call Jesus an angel is amongst the biggest insult yet to him.Not even the 4th century arians brought him so low.

Hope you will also learn things that are insults to God our Father and stop them.

We are all learning here.

Barristers

what is the meaning of "Son of man"?

Shout is not the same blowing a trumpet.

Sound of voice is not the same as sound of trumpet.

pastormustwacc: Is it the trumpet that will bring us back to life? If so, na who go blow the trumpet - that person has the power to bring the dead back to life? Someone should please unravel this mystery.

It is clear as it is stated there.
Shout, voice of an arch angel and the trumpet of God.

Those that hear His voice....when He shouts, those in the grave will hear his voice(ie from His shout) and come out.

The voice of an arch angel has what it does as the commander of God's army.

The trumpet of God(the 7 trumpets), has what it does. See it from Revelation and my post above.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For the Lord Himself will
descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of an
archangel, and with the
trumpet of God. And the dead in
Christ will rise first.

These are the things He will come with but Let me start with this "...with the trumpet of God"
I hope you know he is not the one to blow the trumpet.

Rev 8:2
"And i saw the seven angels who stand before God and to them were given seven trumpets." Also v6

Mt 24:31
"And He will send His angels with a great sound of trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other"

I wan sleep now, leta.

@barristers

Don't say am confused when you don't know what it means to be similar to the sons of men. Who are men(human beings) btw?

With reference to v21
Just like a general. A soldier under the command of a general will not tell you that the general is helping him to fight boko haram.

Michael is the commander of God's army and atimes also appear as a man. Note that the arch angel is very great and mighty. Infact when i read where God told the israelites to obey him and that he(Michael) might not forgive them if they disobey him, i begin dey fear him o. He does not only commands God's army but we all also. He is our commander.

The one similar to the sons of men is also a fighter and said that the arch angel is helping him to hold the force. This shows that he is greater.

So tell me who is it that the commander is helping?

@mollie

Your quote is very very relevant. Only if they can read the warning from God, they will see what they can't change with their praying and fasting when a wicked man dies.

The have chosen to follow what the Pope want them to do by focusing on the bulletins he gave them.

What i know is that a mosquito will not be found in it.

It is not hatred. The problem is that some are now corrupt, applying things that are not written which are contrary to the word of God.

While they discuss, ask your questions and pick the things they say which are bible based. Do not go for anything they say is a mystery. A mystery not found in the bible is a man made mystery and the work of the devil. The devil knows the bible and can interpret it the way he presented it to Christ during His temptation. The bible holds the truth about God. What is written there is enough for you.

We just have to rebuke what is not right.

If the protestants are protesting against idol worship, the Pope making himself saviour and the importation of rosary into Christianity, then it is a worthy protest.

Some secondary school students use those beads(rosary) to do big boys in school.

That is why Christ taught us to worship God in spirit and truth so that people wount get corrupt with images.