₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
LoL. My dear buda doest thou willst to hide the mountain? Will thou not wish me to climb too? That I may look upon the talking burning bush?

Image123:
When I said the world, i was not referring to the planet earth. I'm referring to the reality that we face every day, the love, the hate, the hunger, the betrayals, the luck, the positioning, the pain. These are not exact science but are more real to humanity than facts like 2+2=4 which atheists worship.

LordReed:
Where and what is the evidence?

Image123:
Hehehehehehehehe. These fellows think Objectivity is superior and objectivity is reality. Is the world objective?

oyatz:
Not a very similar case sir.
1) Before colonial rule and subsequent creation of the Old Eastern region in 1951, the Ijaw and Igbo tribes were independent of each other.

The Fulanis in the N/West have ingrained themselves into the larger host population (the Hausa) through the Caliphate system.
The Fulanis through the indirect rule of the colonial era have become the privileged class in the North.

2) Ijaw and Igbo haven't assimilated into one ethnic group. Each maintain separate identities.

geoworldedu:
If according to the religious people, God could create a natural mountain, valley, sea, lake, sky, ocean, breeze, birds, human, water, etc, why did God have to leave his Words to be written by men?

johnydon22:
I do not think it is okay for us to address a logically consistent argument with strawmans

johnydon22:
Actually No, you are assuming the God the OP is talking when the OP doesn't at all imply any particular deity. The OP's argument is based on God as an ontological necessity. (Assuming that the OP is talking about the Jewish God or any God in religion is a strawman)

johnydon22:
I'm starting to think you are not reading people's argument to understand them Buda, you are reading to reply.

johnydon22:
Anything eternal is unchanging

Anything changing is not eternal.

That's the premise.

rekinomtla:
Don't think the definition you cited above defines "belief" like that though, but guess we can agree to disagree.

johnydon22:
Actually, it isn't. It's assumptions are logically consistent.


It is called argument of contingency.

If everything is contingent, an infinite regression of contingencies is logically absurd therefore there must be a necessarily thing at the apex of it all.

So, it is either there is an infinite regression of contingent causes which is absurd

Or

There is an eternal thing (necessary thing) that started it all.

So, this isn't an absurd premise.

He didn't mention the bible God or any particular deity at all.

He argued for God in an ontological sense.

Where did this come from?



Did you understand his argument at all?

I'm not sure you did.

Anything eternal is unchanging

Anything changing is not eternal.

That's the premise.

His conclusion therefore, since the universe changes, it cannot be eternal.

He explained this to detail.

(You can refute his position by providing an equally logically consistent alternative to its fundamental assumptions)

I'm starting to think you are not reading people's argument to understand them Buda, you are reading to reply.

Actually it does follow the premises precisely and the argument is quite solid.

It is an ontological argument of contingency.

1. Everything in the universe is contingent.
2. There cannot be an infinite regression of contingencies
3. There must be a necessary thing (non-contingent thing)
4. This contingent thing is God.

His argument is actually sound. Your reply seem to be replying something else.

LordReed:
How do you know this?

rekinomtla:
According to the definition above you do believe in the existence of God because you accept the proposition that God exists, right?

The lack of evidence/proof part is not a necessity in the above definition.You can believe something with or without proof, it's just that people often use the term "believe" to refer to something they accept without proof.

budaatum:
I do not believe things I know. I either know them or I don't. If I believe rain is falling, its because its not falling on my head or I'd know rain is falling. I do not believe my mother is my mother because I know she is my mother. I do not believe God exists because I know God exists.

rekinomtla:
That depends how you define what it is to "believe" something.

Yes but what I mean by "believe" seems to differ considerably from what you mean by it. For me belief and truth are conditions of knowledge, the standard view in epistemology.

rekinomtla:
You don't have to say that, it follows from your definition of theism. You define it as the "acknowledgement of the existence of God", that theists are people that know God exists.

rekinomtla:
So what is a theist now then? One who believes or one who knows God exists?

rekinomtla:
Yep I am a theist because theism is the belief in the existence of a deity or deities.

rekinomtla:
it never said it was foolish, I just said it seems weird/odd how you using the terms know/knew.

Shepherd00:
You have insulted me directly and indirectly, have I reacted to them? I know you are at all times trying to say Christians are not what they preach. But you fail to understand that Jesus doesn't expect only Christians to be upright in Character.

You throw condescending jibes at me, which if I pick them and throw back at you, we'd be brawling here, but each time I walk away. As I keep walking away, you have assumed that I am weak, or as you call me stupid. But, I understand. Actions they say, speaks louder than words. In other words, 'the content of a man's heart is reflected when upset. Yours shows clearly.

Shepherd00:
Buda, my understanding of your use of 'understanding' here has to do with your intellect and that is merely flesh, and profits you nothing as far as spiritual things are concern.

budaatum:
Then let that be your understanding, "that my understanding is merely flesh". Whether it profits me need not be your concern since you would not be standing by God when I am judged.

I must say though that it amuses me that you presume to know my profit as far as spiritual things are concerned. Have you been watching my fruits, I wonder.

nameo:
Plzz can you share the link to this article by this northerner?

rekinomtla:
So you telling me you knew there were no gods when you were an atheist. But now you know that there is a God. Sounds pretty weird how you know things.

But according to your definition of theism, they knew there was a God when they were theists.

Shepherd00:
Did you or did you not say YHWH didn't create man to worship Him? Did you or did you not say We are not to worship God?
Budaatum, the internet does not lie or forget, you can edit your comments but the ones that have been quoted, are still there.

Again, keep saying it who knows, maybe I may truly become a liar some day.

Shepherd00:
Worship is not only singing and dancing and bowing down before Him. It is everything we do as commanded by God. Our relationship with others is worship to God. Our living in peace with each other, giving to each other and looking out for each other is worship.

Shepherd00:
God does not need my worship?

rekinomtla:
So you never really knew that, you merely believe there were no gods. You thought you knew but you didn't really.



So what about other atheists on this forum? Do they also know there is a God?

rekinomtla:
So would that mean all atheists on this forum were never actually theists?

johnydon22:
Why aren't they people on this nice thread?

Abdulgaffar22:
PREMISE 1; Something must be eternal (i:e always exist and infinitely old)

Abdulgaffar22:
PREMISE 2 ; Anything that is ETERNAL (i:e something that is always exist and infinitely old) would not have a CHANGING characteristic.

Abdulgaffar22:
PREMISE 3 ; Universe (or nature) has a CHANGING characteristic.

Abdulgaffar22:
But Premise 1 is perfectly true. Therefore, God must actually exist.

rekinomtla:
Theism is the belief in the existence of deities so anyone who believes in gods are by definition theists.

budaatum:
A WAKE-UP CALL AND BLUNT TRUTH TO MY FELLOW NORTHERN BROTHERS.

Written by Hassan Stan-Labo

Bᴀɴᴅɪᴛʀʏ ᴀɴᴅ Bᴏᴋᴏ ʜᴀʀᴀᴍ : Tʜᴇ Nᴏʀᴛʜ sʟᴇᴘᴛ ғᴏʀ ᴛᴏᴏ ʟᴏɴɢ!

"The north must wake up now. It must not murder sleep.

The north saw nothing coming. Population was deemed strength. But it should have watched when others slowed down in breeding. It bred too many children and didn’t do much to care for them. They roamed the streets. Yet, it bred more. They forsook schools. And took to begging . Yet, it bred more. Those children, many of them, have gone feral. Now,the north cannot sleep. The north slept for too long.

Northern politicians lived in bubbles, in distant cities. Some governors literally ruled by ‘Wifi’. When they bothered to return to their state capitals, unemployed youths lined the streets to cheer them. In their narcissism , they said it was popularity. The naive jobless youths in their ignorance, considered them their own share of national big men.

So the northern politicians were safe and happy. They lived like lords, harvesting political rents. Their political estate was the large benighted population of the north whose votes made them national heroes. All they bothered about was winning elections and cornering privileges for their family and their friends.

The north is waking up. But it’s waking in fits and starts.

While it was asleep, corrupt politicians treated education as western adulteration of cherished conservative culture. The north lacked schools and teachers, and lacked hospitals and doctors and nurses. But their leaders couldn’t be bothered. The welfare of the poor was an abstract concept mouthed in campaign speeches.

Young doctors went for national youth service in the north and came back with tales of horror. Children and women died needlessly. Labour got obstructed and prolonged and the nearest hospital with a doctor was hundreds of kilometers away. Youth corps doctors were forced to do caesarean sections. We screamed when we shared the stories amongst ourselves those days.

The governors preferred playing emotional religious politics to building productive human capacity. So while some other parts of the country focused on education, some governors made sharia a project and built a large population of illiterate Almajiris.

And I think the north was pushed into deeper somnolence by tranquilizers like quota system and federal character. You can disagree with me. But I know competition would have awakened the north much earlier.

The north is rising. But it is still groggy.

The traditional institutions and the politicians underestimated the long term consequences of their fixation on electoral contests. Political power brought roads and more local government areas. The Federal Government built a refinery and sited federal institutions in some northern cities. But there was almost no attempt to educate the poor. Children roamed. Schools weren’t properly staffed. The three tiers of government left the smaller towns and rural areas in abject poverty and utter hopelessness. The private sector was absent. There was literally no man power for anything meaningful.

The politicians and retired soldiers cornered positions and oil wells. They rode in their big cars and flew in jets. They built big houses and sent their children to foreign lands for education. They let the ignorant poor to worship them and let them flourish in their ignorance. It all seemed peaceful at least. The rich in Kaduna , Kano and Abuja, played their polo. The poor children in Gamboru couldn’t get vaccines. They had to rely on Bill Gates and foreign charity to get, when they got. Poverty and disease and desertification battered and bruised them. The poor , illiterate and hopeless, in the slums of the big towns, in small towns and in the bushes in the hamlets found solace in religion. Radical preachers sneaked in and taught them comforting extremism.

The chickens are coming home to roost.

Banditry has taken over the parts of the north not ravaged by Boko Haram. Zamfara had once toyed with religious extremism. That former center of religious activism is now the devil’s workshop. Evil became so rife the former governor was ready to negotiate with demons who massacred and burnt whole villages. Children who didn’t go to school, who spent their entire lives in the wild, dragging cattle from Timbuktu to Calabar, had become possessed. They have forsaken religion and embraced the devil. And Zamfara is now thinking a mass literacy programme.

Kaduna, the center of the north has not been spared. Ethnic fault lines have been sharpened by frustration and hopelessness. Politicians had driven wedges between the poor to feather their political nests. Millions of unemployed youths are now finding guns and finding devilish impatience. Violence has mushroomed. And Kaduna is fast acquiring the character of Lebanon.

Our law enforcement agents are working hard. But they are overwhelmed. Law enforcement was designed to check and correct an exceptional few. And not to contain an epidemic of madness. From Benue to Taraba, from Katsina to Zamfara, it’s been violence after violence.

The north is waking up. I believe. But it has to find mental clarity, quickly. The north must institute a comprehensive population control measure. The north has to lock the tap. Mops wont do. The north lacks the resources to care for the children that it is currently producing on an industrial scale. It can’t abolish child malnutrition , Almajiri culture, high infant and maternal mortality until it puts a leash on its birthrate. Until the north checks its population growth rate it cannot check the wild fire of poverty that is ravaging its communities.

The north must wake up now.

Boko haram and rampant banditry have stabbed the north into wakefulness. But the north is waking up only in bits. The north is still sleepwalking.

The north left the tap running for too long. It is now flooded with problems that teeming illiteracy and joblessness create. The north must turn off the running tap first. The north must institute immediate population control. Yes, it will have to curb Almajiri by democratizing education. But it must shut the tap first. Without an effective and immediate population control policy , the north and the country is doomed.

It’s unfortunate it had to get to this. It’s unfortunate it had to take banditry for the north to think mass literacy and abolition of almajiri culture. Yobe has no existing factory. A bulk of the population of the Northeast lives in IDP camps. The future looks bleak . And there is no sense of urgency yet.

Northern billionaires must think industrialization of the north. It must be intentional. The potentials abound. There is a strong youthful population. They can’t wait for Bill Gates and Jimmy Carter.

The north must wake up now. It must not murder sleep again.

Shepherd00:
Altho, Buda says it does not believe in You, hence does not worship you, still have mercy on it and lead it to your Truth in your Words Which it does not believe it is.

budaatum:
To worship God is do my will, to love your neighbour and to do unto others as you will have them do unto you, to forgive them their trespasses so that your trespasses can be forgiven, to feed the poor and to be “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the face of the earth.” I specifically said that anyone who understands this will even beg God to permit them to worship God!

jcross19:
if you support the killings in the old testament meaning the love Christ is not in you! even the coming of Christ have no meaning to you! and Bible says you are like your father the liar and killer!