₦airaland Forum

Shepherd00:
You do not intellectually research God without believing In Him.

But very many intellectually research God, and some, without believing! Or does everyone not read the Word? Must one believe before reading it? Is it really that impossible to read it, not believe it, check it, find out it is true and therefore know that it is true? It's not exactly that because you now know you believe it any less, you just know it for certain now so don't believe it because you know it for a fact instead of just believing it.

Heathen777:
Break every chain, (except religious indoctrination passed on from generation to generation) ...

Well good thing some of us broke that chain and our future generation wouldn't have to go through that

Why leave the chains of "religious indoctrination passed on from generation to generation"? Do you want to be a slave forever?

Shepherd00:
You must act on what He has commanded at which point encounters will birth conviction which is KNOWING GOD.

You can "act on what He has commanded" without believing. If somebody slaps you, or takes your shirt for instance, you can turn the other cheek or give them your coat to test if what Jesus said is true. You did not believe it but were smart enough to at least check and test it first before discarding it. And now that you have tested it and found that it is true, you don't just believe it, you know it is true because you tested and witnessed the truth with your own eyes.

But as Christ said, blessed, even moreso might I add, are those who believe without seeing. If only I too had not been jeopardising myself with my stubbornness! I once was lost but now I'm found and can only thank God for not giving up on me.

Shepherd00:
Yes, Buda, it is my business. And this is my stance, which I have not pointed out since.

To know God, you must first BELIEVE that He is what Nd who he says He is.

You must believe the Bible which is His Word to be absolute truth.

You must act on what He has commanded at which point encounters will birth conviction which is KNOWING GOD.

YES, I KNOW GOD NOW, but I believed Him first.

You do not intellectually research God without believing In Him. He is a Spirit, not subject to a specimen

You really ought to take this up with God Shepherd.
Ask why God made buda a knower and not first a 'believer' and let us know what God tells you.

Shepherd00:
How can I be sure that what I read about Him is true?

By testing what you read about him. Diligently. You can check for instance if it truly is "for gaining wisdom and instruction; for understanding words of insight, for receiving instruction in prudent behavior, doing what is right and just and fair; for giving prudence to those who are simple, knowledge and discretion to the young, add to your learning and in your discerning get guidance and understanding", or if it is just propaganda.

If it says it will do these things and these things are done to you, you know it does what it says and is true. But if those things are not done to you and the words says it does these things then you'd know it is just propaganda and is false. But blessed are those who may not yet have had these things done to them yet believe and pray that it does these things to them because it says those things and definitely does those them too.

Shepherd00:
Where did you find that believe is not a requirement? From the Bible which is Jesus' manual on how to walk with Him or from somewhere else?

From my own experience, just like Saul who did not believe, now we know. But as I've repeatedly said, it's not a requirement nor is it the case with everybody. Not everyone was on the way to Damascus!

Shepherd00:
How do you know how to test him? And, did He (Jesus of Nazareth say we shd test Him?), Is testing
the same as trusting?

You know how to test him by learning from this thread and further researching the skills therein. If you have learnt them, you will know how to test him and trust your testing.

And yes, I [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A1-11&version=NKJV]learnt it from Jesus[/url]. If you do not test, you will not know.

Shepherd00:
You say categorically that you don't believe in God, and we do not have to believe.

I never categorically said "you don't have to believe", Shepherd, though to be honest, I don't think one should believe some of the things that you believe like your belief that the purpose of the Bible is to believe, but that's your business.

I don't believe because I know.

Shepherd00:
I only want to point out to 'Whom it May Concern' that you are wrong.

I thought as much too so "point out to 'Whom it May Concern'" Shepherd.

Shepherd00:
My question is how to Know Jesus without Believing in Him first.

You read about him. You can believe what you read first if you want, nothing wrong with that. But I've found belief was not a requirement, in my case. One can test Jesus first, even without believing in him. If you test Jesus and the results confirm what is said about him, you now know its true. And if it doesn't, you'd know its not true.

Shepherd00:
I know you know what I mean. But if you choose to play games, that's your business. I stand here to say that the Word of God standeth sure and no one can change it.

Buda, anyone who tries to falsify the Word of God and lead people to error is darkness.

And, why aren't you responding to posts but picking tidbits?

Those who "falsify the Word of God" produce bad fruits Shepherd, and most people here are way too intelligent to follow bad fruit producers. The Christians amongst us are not even looking for someone to follow because they are fisher's of people in their own right or are praying the Lord make them be.

You "standeth sure". I'm picking the bits that matter.

Shepherd00:
My question is. HOW DO YOU KNOW A SPIRIT WITHOUT BELIEVING IN THAT SPIRIT. This, you have been dodging as if you were blind and can not see it.

I haven't dodged anything Shepherd. Nor has buda been "everywhere insulting God and Christians", or show evidence for your claim!

You know a spirit (here you go again talking about spirits by the way, next you'd say you never!), when you see spirits, or you can make them up in your head, whichever suits you I guess.

Shepherd00:
How did you get to know Him? You saw Him? Can you show me God? I really want to see him.

By studying the Word, Shepherd, diligently seeking for the Spirit in it over very many decades.

And no, I cannot show you. You are such a special case that only the Lord Jesus Christ can show you how to see the Spirit of the Word as he showed me.

Shepherd00:
How do you know the Lord is your Shepherd?

Ma an pa named me what can loosely be translated to "the Lord is your Shepherd" because it was my great grandfather the Ọba Ọrun's name. He died just before I was born. And, in my days on earth I have found I have been shepherded to the point I am now despite all my rebellion and stubbornness all along. I could have jeopardised myself but the loving God was gently with me and guided me despite myself. That's how I know.

Shepherd00:
My enquiry has been HOW, but you have continuously ignored it. How did you get to know that God is alive and what He says abt Himself is true?

Hmm. By God's Grace is how. In my studies even I have often been amazed at the things revealed to insignificant me. I know it's not that I am that worthy in my own right with all my tiny intellect and mind and searching and being even, so I put it down to God.

God knew what buda had to see to make buda know that what God says about God is true. So God showed it to buda. buda saw it, and buda knew.

Shepherd00:
But, it that the case with this lamp, was it directly to a specific direction, keeping a section in the dark, or, was it placed where everywhere will be lit?

If you had wanted to learn you could have learnt here Shepherd, but here you are asking if the lamp is "keeping a section dark" as if the Light of the World is a torch!

You will evolve from this I tell you.

Shepherd00:
I wish you got this from a verse of the Scripture (?). And why haven't you used scriptures for all you teach here Buda? How do you have a foundation of faith without believing?

Shepherd, you have no shame! You remove links from my post then accuse me of not providing any! And when I accuse you of being dishonest, and claim I say what I never said, you claim I insult you when I'm only stating obvious observations. Or do you seriously think everyone is blind like you and would not see that buda has repeatedly and continously provided links in this thread?

budaatum:
The foundation of faith must be rock solid. And some are blessed with the tendency to search all things diligently, even the deepest things of their own heart and soul and intellect and mind and being so they don't have to believe because they can endeavour to know.

I have a very solid foundation of my faith because I more than believe. I diligently search so that I know.

Whats amusing is that you are arguing with your beliefs, for which you seem to lack a foundation, with me who has checked those beliefs and found the knowledge that underpins those beliefs you hold on to. And in your blindness, you think I am claiming the beliefs are wrong, when my claim is that believing is not as good as knowing.

Maybe if I lay it out for you you'd get it.

Shepherd00: I believe in God.

Budaatum: I know God.

You believe the Lord is your shepherd, while I know I am shepherded by God, would be an example. Surely, you believe because your faith is bigger and you are going to heaven, while mine is a tiny mustard seed and I'm going somewhere else, according to you. Thankfully, it is as is written. "By our fruits are we known".

I suggest you stop worrying what God makes of buda and concern yourself with what God makes of Shepherd. Neither of us would be there helping God judge the other.

Shepherd00:
Again. Our Opinions don't count, because without Christ, you have no light.

I'm absolutely certain you believe all you are saying here is not your opinion since God must have made you his mouthpiece.

If I have no light I wonder how you figured I can possibly be following Christ. Or is it darkness that you see in buda?

Shepherd00:
Like I said before, the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is about Believing that what we are told is true, and obeying without asking questions or join Adam and have your own opinions.

And I am telling you that this is your own opinion. It is not the only understanding of Genesis to Revelation, and it is most definitely not an opinion I have of such a wonderfully amazing book. Still, you don't have to get what I get. Please get your "believing" from it and I'll get what it is I get from it. I'm sure God knows who does God's will.

Shepherd00:
Pls list these other ways, I'd like to learn more.

Stop lying Shepherd. You don't "like to learn more", you just want to argue that you already know it all!

All the same, here's a good place to start.

Shepherd00:
Lol. Buda. You are forming anger because you are caught for what you really are. Whatever you call me doesn't change who I am.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. You are still who you were, if not worst. You have your own God you have created in your mind.

What kind of a Christian follows Jesus Without Believing in Him or worshiping Him? It's the kind that has his own gospel if you ask me.

This is the purpose of this thread, to know if indeed you have become a brethren, but alas, you are a shadow.

Shalom

You really are funny. You are the one refusing to fellowship and you believe that angers me as if your not fellowshipping with me will reduce my daily bread.

Not only out of the abundance of the heart does one speak, but out of it does one act and produce fruits too Shepherd.

Shepherd00:
When the Lord was asked what the greatest commandment was, what was His response Buda?

How can I fellowship with you when we seem to be serving different gods? My God whose name is Jehovah created me to serve Him, which is also Worship. But, you say He is not to be worshipped. I believe in Him and His Words, but you say you don't believe in Him or His Words. How can I fellowship with someone who is contrary?

What did Jesus through Paul say? If any man, even an Angle preaches a different gospel from the one that was preached to you, believe him not, and let him be accursed.

With all you contrary gospel, have I cursed you No. Instead you call me stupid.

Don't fellowship with me, it's not by force! You called yourself stupid. I just agreed with you!

Shepherd00:
Our opinions hardly counts here sir. If we are His followers, we keep our opinions to ourselves or quit.

Seriously? One doesn't allow the Spirit that God put in one to manifest how God wants it to?

I don't agree that one should "keep our opinions to ourselves or quit" at all, since it would contravene what to do when one lights a light.

Shepherd00:
Buda, you are smarter than this nah. The Word of God is understood in different ways, literally and in context.

I think you better research this. There are many more ways than "two ways" to interpret the Word of God.

Shepherd00:
You have almost dragged me away from my Op.

I opened this thread to find out from you how one can be a Christian (follower of Christ) without believing in Him. This is not really about the ghosts in your life Buda.

You were the one who asked about spirits and those were the only spirits I knew and I thought I should tell you especially after searching deep and realising I've never told anyone ever. Sorry I dragged you.

Education is like treasure hidden in a field. When a person is educated, in joy will they sell all they have and buy that field because they know the value of education before staking their entire being on it. At least I think one should know, and not just take a chance that the belief they made up in their head is the truth.

Learning and knowing and understanding Jesus will make one a follower of Jesus. That's how early missionaries took it around the world. They taught how to read and gave bibles and thereby freed people from the fear of 'spirits' and ignorance that they believed. Our parents do it too, investing in the education of we their children. And we do it too, investing in our own children. I am assuming no one with Christ educates their child or their self's in Bible belief alone, correct me if I'm wrong.

The foundation of faith must be rock solid. And some are blessed with the tendency to search all things diligently, even the deepest things of their own heart and soul and intellect and mind and being so they don't have to believe because they can endeavour to know.

sonmvayina:
In the original babylonian tale the story of Adam and eve was adapted from, the serpent of the good tree was Ninghiszida and the serpent of the Evil tree was Inanna... She is the Goddess of death and destruction.. I think the purpose of the story is about life and death, and that death is an illusion.. Or deception....as both life and death are one and the same thing.. Read psalm 104 :29-31 or Ecclesiastes 12 :7...

The letter killeth.. Take note.

Interesting. I never thought to wonder why good fruits would yoke with evil fruits!

sarrki:
Though Sanusi interferes in the last election by calling some emirs, Obi’s and Oba’s to support Atiku

He also supported Pdp in Kano

He deserves what he gets

Having said that the ruling Apc Government in Kano are hypocrites the swift passage of the bill within 3 days is suspicious

Other bills that are useful for the common man didn’t get this kind of attention

Ganduje investigations in the dollar saga didn’t get this attention

Unless one is a blind follower of apc, it was right that Sanusi did not support gandollar, even me with sai bubu cannot support that crook!

This is a good thing. Nigerians needs to focus on some of the SDGs!


The Sustainable Development Goals are: 1) No Poverty, 2) Zero Hunger, 3) Good Health and Well-being, 4) Quality Education, 5) Gender Equality, 6) Clean Water and Sanitation, 7) Affordable and Clean Energy, Decent Work and Economic Growth, 9) Industry, Innovation, and Infrastructure, 10) Reducing Inequality, 11) Sustainable Cities and Communities, 12) Responsible Consumption and Production, 13) Climate Action, 14) Life Below Water, 15) Life On Land, 16) Peace, Justice, and Strong Institutions, 17) Partnerships for the Goals. The goals are broad based and interdependent. The 17 Sustainable Development Goal's each have a list of targets that are measured with indicators.

Abbeybailey:
Danny Baker is not different from the Racist in Chief Trump you idolize.

No he's not! Trump would never say this:

"I am aware black people do not need a white man to tell them this. Deleting it immediately and apologising for the awful gaffe I even foolishly tried to make light of it. (My situation that is, not the racism involved.) Too late and here I am.

"I would like once and for all to apologise to every single person who, quite naturally, took the awful connection at face value. I understand that and all of the clamour and opprobrium I have faced since. I am not feeling sorry for myself. I f----d up. Badly."

Danny Baker reveals how 'panic and revulsion' washed over him after royal baby chimpanzee tweet

Read what early Christians were like and how they won souls for Christ!

solite3:
I love people that is why I lead them to christ the right way but you lead men to destruction while claiming you love them.

Solite3! Na me make dem gay?! If they insist in their gayness, is that a reason to justify my inability to love? Must I too sin because some other's have sinned? Is it not written that I should love my enemies moreso which is what I make them by my incessant obsession of their private fuq?

Sorry dude. But if I do what you suggest in the society I live in, not only would I be diagnosed mentally ill, but also be committing a crime since it contravenes the Equality Act 2010, which makes it illegal to discriminate against anyone because of their age, being or becoming a transsexual person, being married or in a civil partnership, being pregnant or on maternity leave disability, race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin, religion, belief or lack of religion/belief, sex, sexual orientation.

CAPSLOCKED:
SEYI371 YOU HAVE NO CASE.
THOSE ATHEISTS THAT DON'T TROLL ISLAM BUT ONLY CHRISTIANITY DON'T DO SO BECAUSE THEY FEAR ISLAM, NO. THEY DO SO BECAUSE THEY ARE MAINLY EX-CHRISTIANS AND HAVE THE CHRISTIAN CULTURE IN THEM, AND ON THIS FORUM AND ANYWHERE IN NIGERIA I CAN BOAST THAT THERE ARE MORE EX-CHRISTIAN ATHEISTS THAN THERE ARE EX-MUSLIM ATHEIST... MAYBE 80-20 IF THEY ARE 100 IN TOTAL. AGAIN EX-MUSLIMS HARDLY COME OUT OF THEIR SAFETY HOLES. THAT SHOULD EXPLAIN WHY THERE ARE MORE POSTS TROLLING CHRISTIANITY THAN THERE ARE TROLLING ISLAM.

ABOUT LETTING PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT, YOU DON'T DO THAT AS CHRISTIANS. YOU GO AFTER PEOPLE, TAKE THEIR LAND, MONEY, FREEDOM AND LEAVE THEM WITH THREATS OF HELL AND A LIFE OF LACK IF THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN YOUR NONSENSE.
BUT EVEN IF YOU LET PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT, WE WON'T DO THAT.

ALL RELIGIOUS/SUPERSTISIOUS BELIEFS ARE DETRIMENTAL TO OUR UNITY AS HUMANS, AND ALSO TO OUR EXISTENCE AS A SPECIE.

BELIEFS MUST BE ERADICATED AND WE WON'T STOP WORKING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Thanks for this mission statement CAPSLOCKED.

Mrshape:
I am sorry if I offended you by me statement,
Apologies.

Two apologies to a person who claims not to pick a fight and "was just jokingly looking for your trouble for fun"!

I respect you. Plenty!

Shepherd00:
And this conditioned your disposition about Jesus?

And, yet as an atheist you said spirits never existed?

Now, what changed? That you didn't believe they were there by ignoring them, obliterated them?

My dearest Buda, these Spirits get as close to us as they can based on our participation in what they intend to do with us. (To whom you yield to, you become servants to obey), says Jesus.

Jesus is our very lives, whether we participate in what he wants with our lives or not, He is ever present, so also the evil spirits.

They seek our consent and most of us give it to evil spirits without knowing. Some, their parents give the consent on their behalf. Like what you explained, it's most likely your parents gave their consent on your behalf knowingly or no.

Whether we believe it or not, we are encompassed by Spirits.

You really are a very funny person Shepherd.

What changed was we moved to a hotter country into a flat 3 floors up with big massive windows in my bedroom tons of breeze like it was ac. I slept like a baby and never had those horrible dreams again unless I slept in a hot stuffy room. Even today, I'll howl in my sleep if I make that mistake. Ma and pa hated the cold where we'd lived till then so they'd put the heater on high at night and I got so hot I had nightmares. When I got to the hot country it stopped. I guess that's why I don't believe in spirits, as such, spiritually speaking.

Do you mind speaking for yourself and not the "us", please. Your experience is not my experience so you can not exactly have sufficient knowledge to impose your experience on me. I find it disrespectful, if you don't mind.

Shepherd00:
Lolzzzzz. It seems we are talking about different gods here. Buda, increasing and multiplying, filling the earth with kids is not the only thing God created man to do.

Mainly, we are created for fellowship which is worship.

I feel stupid even talking about this. Buda, have it your way, you won't believe in God, you won't worship Him. Whatever you choose to do, go ahead Buda.

You know what Shepherd, you must feel stupid! What is wrong with you? If I don't fellowship with my neighbor can I love them? Or did I not add "love your neighbors", which is fellowship, and "do unto others" which is fellowship too? Yet, see you! Incapable of fellowshipping in civil conversation with your neighbor buda claiming I say what I do not say! Are we not meant to be fellowshipping here? Or are you one of those literalists perhaps I did not know?! You don't have to tell buda what to do or whom and how buda worships or not, God will not ask your opinion about buda on buda's judgement day! Where does what I wrote mean "filling the earth with kids"?

Shepherd00:
No vex nah. I only want to know how you get to know and understand a Spirit without first believing what that spirit says about Himself.

I will not vex.

When I was a baby there was a staircase on the other side of my cot, and every night when everyone was asleep these dark hooded beings used to come down from above and terrorise me. So I used to cry a lot at night and keep everyone awake and I was tired in the day until I learnt that if I stayed up reading and don't sleep early they would get tired of waiting and go bother someone else and not be able to terrorise me anymore.

I didn't believe those hooded beings were there, I didn't want those hooded beings to be there, they were just there, spiritually tormenting me, night after night until I was 6 years 5 months and 15 days old. Those years were my very first encounters with spirits.

Shepherd00:
Worship is not only singing and dancing and bowing down before Him. It is everything we do as commanded by God. Our relationship with others is worship to God. Our living in peace with each other, giving to each other and looking out for each other is worship.

Seems we are in agreement with what I've been saying all along!

Shepherd00:
God does not need my worship?

And then you go and ask this silly question Shepherd!

If God needs to be worshipped by you "Being fruitful and increasing in number, and filling the earth and subduing it, and ruling over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground, would you, Shepherd, if you have any sense, not even be begging God to please let you worship God?

A Spirit, I take it, of the Lord God Almighty who created the entire universe made you start this thread so we should not allow ourselves to be led into temptation of not recognising the word is the life and the light of all humans which shines in the darkness and is not overcome. In it we should honour the words of one another if only because we have both read in the very beginning it created all things.

I never ever shy away from answering questions if the questioner really wants to know so state where you don't understand me and I will gladly explain myself but once I've answered I see no reason to concern myself with those who shut their eyes and ignore my answer. The title of this thread is not "buda, what do Christians believe", nor was it "buda, come here and let me Shepherd00 preach to you!" It is Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him?

I hope the Holy Spirit did inform you of the assumption in your question. Would you elaborate on what you meant by the title you chose for this thread please?

And do forgive me for believing beans is not beans.