₦airaland Forum

butterflyl1on:
Give me just one subject that is devoid of belief. Just one and let's put it to the test.

Subject is too much. Lets just do 2+2.

ScienceWatch:
Mmmm. Very interesting. Please explain those scriptures. I am Ready to learn.

You're not ready. When you are ready, your teacher will appear. In the meantime, just read. Its all you need, and will get, for now.

butterflyl1on:
He was saying something totally different.

I like what they say he said.

butterflyl1on:
I am sure you know where those are in the true scriptures.

Matthew 7:7

Luke 11:9

The GoT just puts it better.

Daviddson:
All of you atheists are just wasting your time - making yourself happy that you're winning Ebuka over when it's totally out of possibility - by the grace of God.

frank317 You are spot on. He resists way too much, but the more he looks, the more he sees and his transformation will eventually be more profound than Paul's Road of Damascus experience.

It's just a matter of time.

TomHagen:
Ogbeni you are not a Christian.

You know I always said you were going to leave Christianity.
It only remains to make it official like Phillipe Coutinho.

You are too sophisticated for religion.

Lol. You are, you know!

ScienceWatch:
what gave you all that confidence in TheWesterner again?

I have confidence in TheWesterner. It's my nature to have confidence in people unless they give me sufficient reason not to have confidence in them.

You may wish to see here how my confidence in a certain person gradually evaporated.

butterflyl1on:
You would make a very bad psychologist. When anyone questions, there are many underlying factors. You say his questioning gives you confidence but you forget that questioning does not necessarily mean a change but it might mean a healing based on such questions coming from a place of complex or trauma or abuse ..............

A healing is a change. And the answers to your questions may provoke it. But allow me for once to let a better person tell you:

Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

Stop sinking. It's unbecoming!

ScienceWatch:
He never ever asked a question as you falsely claimed. He simply and wisely made a statement. Check his mention: https://www.nairaland.com/post/64012123

"I don't know what to believe" can safely, (and has been) inferred to mean "what shall I believe?" At least by those who responded to him, including you!

We are all just humans. And going by the Christian thought, with life breathed inside us by God. How dare those who claim there is God stand in front of the temple of that God and condemn it? Do they not read in their own book that in as much as they have done unto the atheist, the Muslim, the pagan etc they have done unto their God in heaven? I guess that is not explicitly said in the book they read. If only they were not blinded by their faith.

"The evidence to the existence of softwares is [indeed] not in the the machine but outside it." it shows in its external manifestation and can indeed be proven to exist in a machine (if software does exist in the machine, that is). One can put its physical components together and show that it cannot function until the software is breathed into it. One can show you the software too, and explain how it makes the machine function. Software it is, but expand software to include electricity, or other forms of energy. Without it, the machine is mere mud with no ability to function or perform the purpose for which it was designed.

The evidence for the 'divine' (meaning unclear, note, so let me mean 'Godly', an equally non-meaning word mind), is simple too. All one has to do is exhibit that software functioning in the machine. After all, if the Software of God were within one, even if one tried to hide it it will glow forth in its own right, or wouldn't it? The question then might be "what is the function of the "machine" (mud, human)?" "Or what is the function of the Software?"

But as you said, it may not be how one desires it to be. Something may be glowing in the dark, but because it may not have some components which one thinks is the core doctrine of that thing, it may not be comprehended.

Imperfect we indeed are today, but we are evolving to perfection. My wish is that we could take some mud, spit on it and rub it in our eye so we can be cured of our blindness. It may not make us perfect, but we will certainly be much better than we are today.

(It seems appropriate so I add the following) In Christ name, amen. (Your evangelising compelled me).

shadeyinka:
Its a pity that we who claim to be christians are actually a big clog in the wheel of progress for making disciples for Christ.

But then by Bro, you have to forgive us because after stripping everything down, we are just first human.

Christians are Imperfect people heading towards the perfection of the saints and of course there are tonnes of people who look like us, speak like us, do like us but are different from us in the fold. Judgment of course will start within the fold of Christ. The judgment is about test of FAITHFULNESS to the calling. Let those who name the name of Christ depart from iniquity (lawlessness).

Note that he Evidence you seek of the Divine may not be how you desire it to be.
I tell you the truth, it is extremely difficult to prove that a "Software Exists" in a machine. The evidence to the existence of softwares is not in the the machine but outside it.

ScienceWatch:
There fortunately are highly esteemed persons here, that can explain all this far better than I, Vaxx, Butterflyl1on, Kingebukasblog, Sonofthunder, Bloodofthelamb, Felixomor and many others.

We shall wait for those who understand it better than you explain it to you!

Hopefully, the Thewesterner will wish to reason by himself and be his own master rather await the likes of you to tell him what to think or believe. The fact that he questions gives me confidence.

shadeyinka:
If I understand you well, your problem isn't the christian doctrines but the way it is being practiced.
.
.
.

I think your anger should be directed to the hypocrisy of Christians rather than to the God of the Christian. Why?

I do not rage against God. (I know you did not mean me personally). I am amused at Atheists who do, but I am aware most just appear to rage against god.

Atheists know there are no gods to rage against. Their rage is against those who insist they should just believe in their gods when they show no evidence in their own ways of dealing with people that there is a God. They treat god as a proxy for the person who says there is one.

shadeyinka:
No need to Bro.
I am also in my rage mode against my fellow christians and the several wolves in sheep skin who have crept in.

But as Jesus said:
Let the Wheat and Tares grow up together

At the end, the Tares will be gathered up and incinerated cause they do not have any seed/fruit in them. For the Master need only the wheat even if they can manage to produce one grain of seed/fruit.

Salt, as in good. Jesus did not sit back and watch the tares choke the wheat. "Woe", he said to those who take away the key to knowledge. Now we have people who are convinced that the evidence they see before them is less credible than that which is recorded to have happened long before they were born. They refuse to use their heads, which is meant to be filled with the Holy Spirit and which they themselves claim is part of their godhead. They elevate a book above it, so far above it that they make it out to be god! Yet do they not breath life in to the words so they themselves become as gods and create.

Christ was a wonderful person indeed. So wonderful that they have made him into a god. Unfortunately, in that slight of hand in which they deified him, they ensured that all (some so called) Christians can do is worship him. I am sure he'd be well pissed off if he came and saw what they do in his name. He sure never asked that temples be built in his name.

Thanks for this thread. The peace of the Lord is indeed with you.

Humans are created to believe, what they choose to believe is the own choice.

Believe that and you'll believe anything!

Thewesterner:
I don't know what to believe

You don't have to believe! Seek to know instead.

OLAADEGBU:
Where are you in the Bible?

Link please. So we can see context.

I apologise for the length of my rage.

‎
You asked a question. I've given a response. Now you're telling me my response is not what you wanted? And no, I am not suggesting being an atheist is better. Though, I would argue that being sceptical about some religious beliefs is a good thing‎. 

Otem already told you he has problems with your "core Christian doctrine". I agree with him. What you posted was at best your understanding of the core doctrine of Christianity. The most basic doctrine of Christianity however, would be "love your neighbour". And this is the one rule most people find the hardest to abide by.

Christians think it means, convert your neighbour to believe what they believe, which is what they evangelise. I prefer to be shown the evidence, myself. Then I would not have to believe because I would actually know. Religion tends to conflate belief with knowing. They however set themselves up for ridicule by claiming it is what they believe. I have treated this conflation in another thread and would look up a link to it if you care.‎ Basically, one does not just believe what one knows.
‎
Back to the topic at hand with reference to Matthew 25:34-40‎ which you've quoted. It basically says 'care for one another', which in no way means convert one another. One should perhaps read it in conjunction with the Parable of the good Samaritan. In Christ's day, the Samaritan would have been seen as worst than how some Christians see the Muslims. They in no way agreed with Judaism and were looked at disfavourably by the Judaists. It was generally accepted that God did not like them, yet Christ is implying that that unbeliever, as some deemed them, would find greater favour in God's eye than even a priest of Yahweh. So where does the idea that Christians adopt today, of loving only those of their neighbours who believe as they do, come from? I bet you many would throw up verses from the Bible to justify that hatred. And there is the pity. I assure you, if some of the practises Christians claim is from Christ were from Santa Claus, we would have killed Santa Claus off already!

Christ evangelised more by loving his fellow human beings. If anyone adopts that loving attitude, I personally don't care if they did it in the name of Satan. The world would be a better place. ‎But to claim any god can be behind the current Christian practice (of some), is at best a farce. The god such people worship should be killed off. And as an atheist, it is my duty to evangelise that fact, for the harm they do by their narrow mindedness is immense. They are no better that the Pharissees, whom Christ ranted against incessantly.

One's belief does not the person make. ‎Paul and James had opposing views on the topic. "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds", said the latter. Only those who have a desire for controlling others can claim that whosoever believeth a certain thing shall go to 'heaven'. We all sure know many so called 'believers' who we would not like to associate with. Just look on here and wonder how many of them you might not wish to associate with. Then wonder if there is not at least one atheist on here whom you can see yourself having due regard for. Then consider who would be gnashing their teeth on judgement day, if ever there is one.

Please note, this is me raging. I hate that people can justify the unjustifiable and hope they wouldn't be seen through. Such is tantamount‎ to screaming, "Crucify him! Crucify him!" and nothing can be more evil in my raging opinion.‎
‎

shadeyinka:
The aim of my post isn't to prove which is better between Atheism and Christianity. It isn't also to discuss how effectively and faithfully Christians have been performing their spiritual mandate as assigned by God.

The essence of my post is for you to examine the core Christians doctrine as I have written it and show how it makes the world either a better place or a terrible place if they are faithfully adhered to.

So, it isn't about being arrogant. Its about suppose Christians are correct: would it not be wrong of them not to preach to others?

The core "Believe" is not a word in isolation. It is about independence from God. How can a person believe in God yet be independent? It is impossible. I think you got it wrong there. Satan is independent from God because even though he knows that God exist, doesn't believe IN "whatever God has to say or do". This is an act of defiance.

Why do atheists rage about " Santa Claus " if Santa Claus has not been known to inspire bombing and maiming of people.

Evangelism is one duty
Loving God and Man is another duty

Both are duties of the Christian and any Christian who fail in either has a lot of repentance to do.

‎

konjinus:
Hello Nairalanders, I recently got converted to the religion of athiesm but I am not comfortable with some of the traditions like harassing people who believe in their God. Do I have to mock and continually harass religious people in other to build my 'faith' in athiesm? Do I have to pretend to like Satan also? What is the difference between athiesm and 'anti-christism'. Pls I would like this questions to be answered by my fellow Yoruba athiest brothers. Thanks

30 Keys To Being An Effective Atheist

With pleasure.

Happy

shadeyinka:
Christians are expected to preach to people so that they would not go to hell. Hell is another way of describing Gods refuse dump. That is whoever lives a life of independence from God is thrown into the place. This should propel Christians to work harder in their duty of evangelism.

Take the above, for instance. The Christian preaches to the atheist to save them from going to hell. How arrogant of them to think they themselves are not going to hell, and that they qualify to lead others there!

And what is "independence from God"? Do Christians really believe that their god really chooses based on the criteria of belief? Did the priest not believe? The Samaritan sure didn't. But what did their messiah say about that again? Is it not also written that the devil believes too? So Satan is in heaven, right? What then is so fancy about going to heaven if the devil is there already? And apart from the entire thing being fiction?

Love your neighbour means a lot more than evangelising, and if Christians understood that, fiction or not, I will take my atheist ass to church to join in their loving and making the world a better place, even if it meant praising and worshipping a figment of my imagination.

EBUBS:
Lord i want to be close to you. I want to be so convinced about your existence that i won't have to ask questions or swayed by the opinions of others.. Amen.

Its a good thing god ignores some prayers. Sounds like "Lord, please give you a lobotomy so I cannot think anymore".

Partnerbiz3:
I am no atheist.
I know God exists but I am confused as to the extent of his roles in our lives.

At times, I wonder if he truly cares.

.
.
.


I just wonder , confused and dispirited.

I like it when she puts it like that,

My friend, you don't know jack. And I notice you minded to say what you're not, but are you sure you have not just lied, again?

It's natural to be confused about god. Its a very confusing concept for a considering person. In fact, you would have to take the steps in the other response to your post to continue to believe. But, please consider, after all the effort prescribed, if you truly know, or merely believe.

Please forgive the tone. It is not intended as an insult. I love the fact that you consider.

adepeter2027:
What about the times your prayers ain't answered?

God is waiting for the right time.

lilbest4:
I did a little research on Israel and I discovered that about 94% of the people whose history cover over 70% of the Bible are not even Christians. Why we come carry other people matter for head like this

You'd be amazed how few of them are Jews.

adepeter2027:
Has god ever considered .......

"How can a non-existing thing consider", asked the theist. "Bloody atheists".

enilove:
That means you are not current.

There is a "Humanoid robot "called Sofia produced in America.
She is a citizen of Saudi Arabia. It can Imitate emotions and facial movements . It cross think like how a human thinks.
It is said to be a billion times smarter than humans with an artificial brain.
She attends talk shows and replies every everyone correctly.

Yep, not current enough. So, I read up on Sophia. Found the following.

"the bulk of Sophia's meaningful statements are believed by experts to be somewhat scripted."

"able to answer certain questions and to make simple conversations on predefined topics (e.g. on the weather)."

"The software has been programmed to give pre-written responses to specific questions or phrases, like a chatbot. These responses are used to create the illusion that the robot is able to understand conversation, including stock answers to questions like "Is the door open or shut?""

"Some replies have been nonsensical, while others have impressed interviewers"

"Sophia is best categorized as a chatbot with a face."

"the company that made Sophia, acknowledges that it is "not ideal" that some think of Sophia as having human-equivalent intelligence, but.."

"Saudi law doesn’t allow non-Muslims to get citizenship. Did Sophia convert to Islam? What is the religion of this Sophia and why isn’t she wearing a hijab?"


So, Human like in appearance, and a few smattering words. Hardly descriptive of what I would call "a billion times smarter than humans", unless those humans do have artificial brains. There is indeed an individual on this forum with such a brain whom Sophia sounds like she'd be a lot smarter than though, in fact like a zillion times smarter than, but there are some of us who think that individual is a bot. Still, I doubt you want to argue that human created robots are humans.

EVarn:
In a letter to judges of England, he urged them not to exercise any restraint in punishing homosexuals, for he considered it an unforgivable offence.

There are numerous refs in one of the links I posted above that do not agree with your point. They in fact stand in opposition to the above and refer to him finding love for same genders to be historical and therefore natural.

Please post link to where he said as you claim.

EVarn:
but also an hypocrite who encouraged anti-gay laws and death penalty for homosexuals,claiming that homosexuality was a "moste unforgivable offence...".

There seems to be sufficient research suggesting King James 1 was gay.
I found no evidence for the above however. There seems to exist much more to the contrary.

King James Homosexual, addressing the Privy Council wrote:

"I, James, am neither a god nor an angel, but a man like any other. Therefore I act like a man and confess to loving those dear to me more than other men.

You may be sure, that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else, and more than you who are here assembled.

I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect,

For Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had John, and I have George.

enilove:
Stop using your brain to discern spiritual things, it might crack open.

Back to the subject.

Man created Robots in his image , is man created from iron?

Have humans created robots in their image? Not really, unless you mean its physical appearance only. And I'm guessing God is not limited to the physical attributes of humans - legs, hands, ears, eyes, mind and stupidity et al?

Robots are not yet able to reason like humans do. And any humans who decide not to use their brains will become robots!