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Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 11:34pm On Oct 24, 2017

JackBizzle:
The point was that the teaching of religious evolution is indoctrination. Evolution and God (of the bible) are incompatible.

Kindly Swerve.

Sorry, but I refuse to swerve. Common indoctrination, they cannot accept a meaning. Do you really think it that difficult or impossible for them to claim god started evolving? You wait till it becomes accepted knowledge. If they haven't created it yet, it would be called the Intelligent Designer and would fit into a Gap Theory!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 11:18pm On Oct 24, 2017

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 11:17pm On Oct 24, 2017

KingEbukasBlog:
At first , when Charles Darwin made the 'discovery' that natural things evolve overtime ,

Not true! In the 6th edition of Darwin's Origin of Species, he said he was "shadowing forth the principle of natural selection."

Empedocles was the first person to put forward a theory of evolution by survival of the fittest. First flesh, he said, being constituted of fire, air and water in equal parts; and bone, being two parts water to two parts earth and four parts fire; emerged as chemical mixtures of the elements. From these unattached limbs and organs (unsocketed eyes, arms without shoulders, and faces without necks) were formed. These roamed around until they found partners and formed unions which were initially unstable - human headed oxens, ox-headed humans, androgynous creatures with faces and breasts front and back. These creatures were fragile or sterile but the fittest structures survived to become the humans we now see. (Empedocles c. 492—432 B.C.E.)

Don't laugh though. In his day all existence came from the elements which were air, water, fire and earth, and each were said be the god at different times by different philosophers.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 10:50pm On Oct 24, 2017

butterflyl1on:
The Bible does not teach "believe without questioning "

1st John 4:1

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world

1st Thessalonians 5: 19

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil

Etc

Testing here means to prove the word of God. How does one prove the word of God, when it becomes FACT through occurrence or confirmation.

And when the Bible agrees and confirms it!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 10:48pm On Oct 24, 2017

butterflyl1on:
Atheistic teachings of evolution is also a very good example of indoctrination wouldn't you agree

I do not mind discussing with you provided you are honest.

I can see how a Christian can claim that the teaching of evolution is an example of indoctrination, just as I might indoctrinate a 2 year old child that 2 + 2 = 4. However, that is not how 2 + 2 is taught. Not unless I want to spend my time telling my child the result of adding any two numbers. If I did indoctrinate that 2 year old that way, I would be setting my child up to fail.

Evolution is taught in an environment where the student already has immense opposing views to compare and contrast. Its teaching does not appeal to a higher superbeing for authority for its acceptance. The worst that would happen to one who does not accept it is a failure in an exam paper where questions on it are asked. Whereas if I say there is no god you would call me a fool, and I will go to hell, or believe I would, if the indoctrination on the existence of hell has worked.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 10:33pm On Oct 24, 2017

chemystery:
Everyone knows christians believe the bible is the word of god, and is inspired by god and
Every christian is taught that god is an unquestionable authority.
No christian dares to question anything coming from the bible, which is believed to come from god's inspiration because it is believed that questioning the bible is questioning god's authority.
You can only deny that with the motive to win a debate.

Thank you for this. You did the ops work for him i.e. provide evidence for his first argument.

JackBizzle:
My first argument

There is a lot of indoctrination in christianity. I say this because it is a religion that is taught to young children at a stage where they are gullible. Christianity is not taught with logic and open-mindedness. It is usually taught with visions of hell for the disobedient and it is taught as fact, whereas it is just one religion out of hundreds.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 10:24pm On Oct 24, 2017

butterflyl1on:
That creed IS NOT CHRISTIANITY!

that creed DOES NOT MAKE ANYONE WHO SAYS IT A CHRISTIAN.

There ought to be an ignore button on this forum for the likes of you. KEB, in my opinion, insults himself by calling on your sort to cheer him on. He is in fact worthy of discussing with. You on the other hand.......

Lord, forgive me for I sin!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 10:21pm On Oct 24, 2017

KingEbukasBlog:
Exactly . I can doubt the claim made by atheists that the universe is eternal or came from nothing . My brother , am I not a skeptic then ?

You would be a skeptic to that particle idea, and anything else you are skeptical against.

You would stop accepting I was a Christian if I claimed Jesus was the child of the union between Mary and Joseph. You sure as hell would not describe me as being a mere sceptic, as your posts on this forum show!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 10:15pm On Oct 24, 2017

butterflyl1on:
Christianity means LIKE CHRIST and not LIKE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

The church's doctrines are summarised in the Nicene Creed. Please point out to me where it claims, "LIKE CATHOLIC CHURCH". The second version is from The Book of Common Prayer as read in the Anglican Church.

English translation of the Armenian version

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is of the essence of the Father.

God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.

Who for us humanity and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, was made human, was born perfectly of the holy virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.

By whom He took body, soul, and mind, and everything that is in man, truly and not in semblance.

He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, [and] sat at the right hand of the Father.

He is to come with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, in the uncreated and the perfect; Who spoke through the Law, prophets, and Gospels; Who came down upon the Jordan, preached through the apostles, and lived in the saints.

We believe also in only One, Universal, Apostolic, and [Holy] Church; in one baptism in repentance, for the remission, and forgiveness of sins; and in the resurrection of the dead, in the everlasting judgement of souls and bodies, and the Kingdom of Heaven and in the everlasting life.

2011 Revised Translation
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 10:04pm On Oct 24, 2017

butterflyl1on:
Does skepticism now hold a hierarchy of meanings?

Yes it sort of does! A protestant may be skeptic when it comes to describing Catholics as Christians, for instance. Atheism on the other hand is sceptic on steroids as far as existence of gods is concerned.

Skepticism (American English) or scepticism (British English; see spelling differences) is generally any questioning attitude or doubt towards one or more items of putative knowledge or belief.[1][2] It is often directed at domains, such as morality (moral skepticism), religion (skepticism about the existence of God), or knowledge (skepticism about the possibility of knowledge, or of certainty).[3] Formally, skepticism as a topic occurs in the context of philosophy, particularly epistemology, although it can be applied to any topic such as politics, religion, and pseudoscience.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 9:56pm On Oct 24, 2017

KingEbukasBlog:
Woah ! This is new . Another atheist spotting the shallow reasoning from another atheist ? Good things to come ?

I knew you'd do that. It's silly of you, but I knew you'd do it all the same, along with your humpty dumptyism, obscurantism and calling in the calvary to help derail the thread.

The issue on this thread has nothing to do with evolution. It is as stated in the previous thread. A thread titled Is Evolution Dogma, would make for interesting discussion, but its not for here.

Be assured, your religion or beliefs do not stop you being a creation of god (if say I were to believe god exists and created you). If I respect your opinion instead of insulting you it is because I glorify the creation of god, after all, is it not written that in as much as I do unto you, I have done on to the father in heaven whom I see not?

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 9:47pm On Oct 24, 2017

JackBizzle:
The point was that the teaching of religious evolution is indoctrination. Evolution and God (of the bible) are incompatible.

Kindly Swerve.

Don't swerve me! The title of the thread is

(Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination?)

No where is evolution mentioned in the title or the body of the opening thread. You prove your point or swerve yourself!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 9:43pm On Oct 24, 2017

KingEbukasBlog:
His own topic says Christianity and he is talking of Catholic Church . Such confusion

The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, is the largest Christian church, with more than 1.29 billion members worldwide. Wiki

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 9:39pm On Oct 24, 2017

JackBizzle:
Of course. But it does prove that it was not an omniscient or all mighty being from the bible that orchestrated it.

Not pertaining to this thread's topic, but:
Excuse me? Where does anything said on this thread so far prove "omniscient or all mighty being from the bible" did not orchestrate evolution?

In another thread perhaps, so as not to derail this one!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 9:24pm On Oct 24, 2017

JackBizzle:
Simple "yes" or "no", my guy dey blow grammar.

Oh move on for Christ sake. The man already accepted his mistake.

KingEbukasBlog:
indoctrination(to accept something uncritically)

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 8:57pm On Oct 24, 2017

KingEbukasBlog:
If it is to accept what is being taught uncritically , no we weren't in Christianity : https://www.nairaland.com/4136342/atheism-vs-christianity-which-one/1#61737386

Sir, it does matter. The above is what the op means when he started the thread. Stop wriggling unnecessary!

KingEbukasBlog:
If Christianity allowed indoctrination as the OP claims, there wouldn't be Christian theology , St Thomas Aquinas wouldn't have made arguments for God's existence to defend his belief . Irish priest George Berkeley's profound argument for idealism - Esse est percipi - wouldn't have been made . George Lemaitre , the Belgian priest wouldn't have developed the Big Bang Theory , Christian archaeologists wouldn't bother to verify the stories in the bible etc . The list again is endless ...

Good evidence. You gave a similar argument for different beliefs held by atheists in the thread
There Are Atheists Who Acknowledge the Existence of the Creator of the Universe. I assume your position is not that atheists are indoctrinated(?)

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 8:48pm On Oct 24, 2017

KingEbukasBlog:
First , there is a problem we have to identify and that's the presupposition from the OP that there is indoctrination(to accept something uncritically) in Christianity . ...

O good. Now we have a definition of indoctrination. But there is disputation as to whether Christains are indoctrinated.

Op, you must prove Christian indoctrination!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 8:40pm On Oct 24, 2017

Dalam0n:
He gave a dictionary definition that defines it as brainwash yet he is still shouting to teach.

It's called Humpty Dumptyism. ‘When [he] uses a word,’ ‘it means just what [he] chooses it to mean — neither more nor less'.

Makes discussion impossible, but Paul advocated the same thing when he wrote:

"I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some." 1 Corinthians 9

He'll say anything to win.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism VS Christianity, Which One Is A Result Of Indoctrination? by budaatum: 7:36pm On Oct 24, 2017

butterflyl1on:
Indoctrination simply means TO TEACH!

You are deceiving yourself. Please make sure you read the definition of Indoctrination. It does not simply mean, "to teach"!

‘Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!’ Hard Times, by Charles Dickens

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by budaatum: 4:45pm On Oct 24, 2017

hopara1:
@budaatum Let love lead us all,in all our endeavours despite our differences in literacy...tolerance cures ignorance!We all have reasons for our beliefs,but it's certain that there is always consequences for holding to the wrong path!

Two ways there are of seeking how to see
One that it is, and is not not to be
That is the path of Truth's companion, Trust
The other it is not, and not to be it must
[url=https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PgZrpNeulMMC&pg=PT45&lpg=PT45&dq=KRS+291.+2-5&source=bl&ots=NRTMer4JjW&sig=7CFTyBWcsd12f-pv4UvxarkV-fg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6pvfVy4nXAhUHVRoKHWyXD-EQ6AEIETAC#v=onepage&q=KRS%20291.%202-5&f=false]KRS 291. 2-5[/url]

It's the "wrong path" we are here attempting to define. And indeed, love would lead us to it. I thank god that at the very least, its on the curriculum. Where would we be if there were no begotten son!

I assure you, A people of power is being established here!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by budaatum: 3:57pm On Oct 24, 2017

JackBizzle:
Your thread is daft. Atheism rejects religion (indirectly) in the sense that many religions are tied to god. Take for instance, the abrahamic religions (christianity, judaism and islam), they require a belief in God. Without God the religion makes no sense.

As a christian, you are daft for opening this thread

I disagree. While you may not see the impact of your words on the thread opener, it is very obvious there has been an impact nonetheless, on the thread opener, and on all who read the thread. Add that to the provocation of thought instigated in the thread opener. Surely, you do not believe all of the thread openers rebuttals could be made without some thinking going on. Even the choice of evidence to support thread openers position would have involved sifting through evidence that opposed that position.

I sure as hell learnt a lot. So thanks op!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheist Dark Ages by budaatum: 2:42pm On Oct 24, 2017

OLAADEGBU:
North Korea promotes state's sponsored atheism.

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-north-korea.html

I hear you. However, I could only claim North Korea is an atheist nation if I fudged the facts or believed the propaganda. It is obvious that the Kim Jon family have deified themselves and created a religion to worship too.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by budaatum: 2:37pm On Oct 24, 2017

hopara1:
Nice try!but if taking this into consideration I think the truth is gradually coming out...because non-exist things dont make sound!

Exactly. It kind of negates what you said.

hopara1:
If A dont believe there is B among letters,then why is A so worried if B is among the letters?Ignorance

If B is among the letters, B must exist.
B makes a sound B must exist.
The fact that A responds to the sound made by B means A knows B exists.
It is illogical (or dishonest) to then claim A does not believe that B exists despite all that evidence.
Your statement implies that A just refuses to acknowledge that B exists, despite all the evidence that proves B's existence.

Your analogy does not properly describe the argument at hand, is my point here. It does not describe A's position at all. B is amongst the letters and A knows it is. They have lived as neighbours for so long, and A hears B rumbling around next door. A would be mad if it suddenly claims B does not exist.

However, in the Yoruba alphabet, A knows it's neighbours. They have always been A, B, D, E, etc. C does not exist. Nor does C make a sound. And all the letters in the Yoruba alphabet can testify to the non existence of C. Except, for analogy sake, B now claims there is a C in the Yoruba alphabet, and it lives between it, B, and D. I suggest that while A may chose to just argue the point, D might be a bit more militant in its opposition especially if it were asked to make room for C!

Christianity Etc › Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by budaatum: 7:54pm On Oct 23, 2017

Can't believe I got through this thread. It started off intelligently, then went for a potty doing both sides great disservice.

If folks understood this was a powers and principality kind of issue, which it is, I am certain you'd chose your words wiser.

Well, I am suggestion.

Christianity Etc › Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by budaatum: 7:49pm On Oct 23, 2017

ScienceWatch:
Medical science has released their SHOCKING FINDINGS of a 10 year study of Atheists. the evidence proves that Atheism is a mental disease.
Correction : The findings are based on a 22 yr study which makes it even more scientifically compelling.

Hmm?!

Sorry, my bad.

Christianity Etc › Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by budaatum: 7:36pm On Oct 23, 2017

frank317:
Using visual technology to explain the whole world seeing Jesus appear in the sky is the most stupid thing holy spirit has revealed to anyone since I have been on Nairaland.
The theory is cheap and dubious. Lol Jesus is waiting for the advancement of technology. He can't develop his own spiritual divine technology ... Chai, Nairaland no go kill me

Actually, I don't see it being that silly. Jesus is waiting for advancement perhaps, it doesn't have to be in technology, literally. It could be spiritual divine something. He is written to have said so here.

However, if you can manage not to take it literally, you'd have to do the same with 'Jesus', if you want to be honest.

Christianity Etc › Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by budaatum: 7:27pm On Oct 23, 2017

frank317:
There is a reason why she will not answer...she, even Felixomor had to dodge and not help her out.

If she says yes, then her foolish theory on everybody seeing Jesus on television will fall flat on her face. Yet she claimed she was wise when she was busy propounding the television theory

Its sounding silly now. I am sure spectacular did not mean telly, literally. She, or someone, even suggested advanced telly, like telly evolved, a la Star Trek.

Get with people! Get telly!

Christianity Etc › Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by budaatum: 7:21pm On Oct 23, 2017

spacetacular:
Distribution is dependant also on a digital box or dongle and those are already being supplied FOR FREE to remote locations.

Hmm, its not, you know! Nobody is giving away free digital boxes or dongle in Nigeria.

Source please.

Christianity Etc › Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by budaatum: 7:16pm On Oct 23, 2017

CatfishBilly:
So, you just sit in your home in the UK and make inferences about the most remote communities on planet Earth?

TBN is offering cable TV for free? How many rural communities have they covered? Can you give a percentage?
Nigeria doesn't have free cable TV ( that shiiiit is expensive) unless you get it by illegal means and you still pay for it, so I don't see any reason why people living on less than $2 a day would be bothered about cable TV

Solar power? You have absolutely no clue. God. I don't even know how to address that point.

Phones and Facebook Livestreams for people who can't even afford to eat

Why would Jesus be so dependent on fallible human technology for his second coming?

He would be like "I'm coming today" then boom, Niger Delta Avengers vandalize a pipeline and Nigeria is thrown into darkness for a week then Jesus has to postpone his coming back for another week?

Do you know how ridiculous you sound? Just stop.

Lol. Who needs telly when you make me laugh so!

Christianity Etc › Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by budaatum: 7:05pm On Oct 23, 2017

spacetacular:
I am a Christian who says it as it should be said. Some of you lot deserve some hard knocks.

AnonyNymous:
Religion is the scientific method backwards

Christianity Etc › Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by budaatum: 6:29pm On Oct 23, 2017

KingEbukasBlog:
It's like asking why a book needs an author or why a program needs a programmer . The author is the mind behind the book , the programmer is the mind behind the program .

Not quite. Its more like asking, 'Why does a rock need a rock maker? Then claiming 'The rock maker is the mind behind the rock'.

It's a very religious way of thinking I dare say. If an ill person is healed by a doctor, the same logic makes the religious person thank god. God, and not the knowledge of the doctor, cured the ill person. Ergo, ill person might as well go to a preacher, who is after all closer to god.

Christianity Etc › Re: As We Await Tomorrow's Anti Christian Threads On Nairaland by budaatum: 6:21pm On Oct 23, 2017

konjinus:
is athiesm a religion that BELIEVES in the non-existence of God? Why should u have a special day. What is remarkable about not believing in God? I think you are just another Christian mad at God

What isn't remarkable about believing in god?

If everyone is getting a day when some have to not talk, why can't others?

You may think whatever you want, you know!

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