₦airaland Forum

crackhaus:
In essence, you don't know everything about feminism...that's all you had to say.

If I claimed to know everything, would you take me serious?

5minsmadness:
Nice.

What's nice?

The OP?

To think people said Angelina Jolie was a better fit for Brad Pitt and how Pitt was now himself bla bla.

As much as I 'feel' for Jennifer Aniston and want to blame Angelina as the other woman; Brad should be mature enough to make his decision on who he wants to be with.

Except if men are actually the babies they are reputed to be.

And how can a baby lead a family?

byvan03:
The real 'work work on it' version of marriage, I don't really know what to say about it but am sure it's terribly exhausting.

A little effort to please here and there is cool but the word 'work' makes the whole thing sound torturous mehnn...

Marriage is hard work.. And they wonder why people run away from it.

And what is work in two people in love try to make each other happy?

The picture of marriage usually painted here is not palatable at all

Mindfulness:
The guy is moody, so what? All of us are moody to some extent. Do your thing - that is if you have a life outside the relationship - and let him be. He wil come back when his mood changes and since it changes quickly, that's why we call people moody, he will be back in the blink of an eye.
How annyoing can a partner be who demands you to be the way they need you to be instead of letting you be the way you are. They were not born to please you 24/7. Their job is to please themselves in the first place and it is your job to please yourself. And when you to become happy, the relationship will just flow and you will be able to give each other more than any of you ever dreamed of.

I agree with you that happy singles make happier spouses.

crackhaus:
Just for the records, are you not the one I once quizzed on this same section about the history of feminism (1st wave, 2nd wave, etc) and you hadn't heard anything about it at that point?

My memory works fine, and I have a feeling yours does too if you're being honest...because between you and I, it was clear that I knew much more about feminism than you (a feminist) did.

However Bukatyne, I'm giving you a chance to humor me and make me look stvpid by answering this:
Does feminism believe in the headship of a man in the home?

Don't remember that discussion however, if you ask now, you wouldn't be wrong to assume I don't know the waves and honestly don't care .

Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social rights for women that are equal to those of men.[1][2] This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

The bold is what I have always believed in and when I saw this definition, it fit and that is it.

What is your definition of headship?

And I am neither spokeswoman nor god of feminism.

crackhaus:
You don't know what I talk about, a feminist wrote her experience and regretted some choices and you still saw her as foolish, madam Tèaroses who is older and has been married longer said her own and you still don't know what she is talking about.

Abeg, God go appear for your room before you finally figure all this out?

What has age and length of marriage got to do with the discourse? She is opining men/women are not equal and I asked if her husband treated her as an inferior and no response yet.

The woman didn't regret feminism; she regretted marrying Franco which to me was also a bad decision

crackhaus:
Getting angry about what again?

All I've been doing is laughing at that woman in the story ever since Tim brought that article here.

I will admit the woman is funny in a crazy way

crackhaus:
That's why I said some na, the some included the finance aspect.

Where's your head at?

What are the other special treatments? Yet to give me another one 100 posts later

crackhaus:
Lmao... Was I offering you special treatment before?
See me see Bukatyne

The woman in the article is the one looking for special treatment from Franco...lol

Does being pampered mean having free access to all earnings?

The special treatment you can't even define?

crackhaus:
People like you = Pseudo-feminists.
Not YOU personally.

People like me and yet you say not me?
Am I not a subset of the people (pseudo-feminists) like me?
Where is mindfulness to give you one e-slap?

crackhaus:
Can everyone else see that sentence I put in bold?
Feminism is only about men doing chores, and was never about sharing finances 50/50.
Timbuktou abeg come see wetin Buka talk.

mindfulness, make the e-slaps 2 please
First, sharing finances 50/50 Franco's way is sick. Joint accounts is much better/ delegate certain responsibilities to individuals/ 50% of their earnings into one pot/ go the traditional route
It is actually anti-feminists who make feminism about chores and finances. I expect an elder sister/brother to help me in chores if they have a lighter schedule.... and feminism have nothing to do with it.

I helped my youngest sister wash her uniforms and cook when she was preparing for WAEC and I was done with NYSC

crackhaus:
The definition of a good husband to a woman usually depends on how often he makes her happy, anything less and he becomes a bad husband.

No be me talk am oo, na one wise old man tell me.

The wise old man is very wise

How would you define a good wife to you?

crackhaus:
You are the only one here that doesn't want to gree, Mindfulness has boldly stated hers...it's your turn.

Do feminists still want special treatment, yes or no?
All these ones you're doing is just diversion.

You are yet to give me a definition on special treatment

And I can only speak for myself. I am not an authority on what feminists want on an individual level.

A40:
I'm basically talking about the housechores part some of you women always bring up as a leeway for not contributing to major projects like school fees, rent and other heavy capital expenses

Ok

You expect women to contribute to major financial projects while they suck up doing chores alone? Who wouldn't want a good deal?

On a serious note:

Traditionally, men have always held the forte financially while wives took care of the home (chores/babies etc.)

If you want any arrangement outside the norm, get someone who shares similar views with you and/or trash it out before marriage.

At the end of the day, you both do what's best for your personalities.

Mindfulness:
Bukatyne dear,

the only mistake you can make in a discussion with His Majesty Crackhaus is to take him too seriously. He is trolling around at least half of the time unlike others who are seriously venting their frustrations coming from their miserable experience with women. NL is suppossed to be therapeutic to them.

[size=18pt]Crackhaus is a feminist to the core.[/size] He loves strong, independent ladies who were raised by feminist pioneers. His provocations serve his understanding and sense of fun. Be playful and don't allow him to provoke you.

I am saying it because I know him very well and can see how he is trying to get under your skin.

A gentle e-slap here and there may be helpful too.

Lols!

Thanks for the warning

Feminist crackhaus: FC sounds like a football club

Adaobi12:
Its delusional to say that great relationship doesn't require work. It does, but the magnitude of the work depends on the individual invovled.

For instance: Ability to tolerate my partner's excesses is work.

Making re adjustments in my life style or say work schedules just to make to make time for US is work.

Everything good requires work.

Hmmm....

Good one

Like I always say, you can't be broke and be a feminist. Pick a struggle

The woman is quite frankly confused for lack of a better word

I always tell women. Leave this feminism megedefegede in your place of work. Don't carry it to your husband's house. Most of your so-called champions for this struggle are loving and submissive wives at home.

@bukatyne
I always chuckle when you women bring up the housechore/housekeeping line. Is it housechores
1) That can be paid for
2) That some men can actually do and participate in when they have the time
3) That a lot of women nowadays are actually pretty bad at

Lol that last part in particular because there are so many women out there that are very lazy in that aspect. Even aje pako ones that one would ordinarily expect to be decent at it from my experience are just as bad as babes from rich homes.

@A40
I don't understand your question

So peeps, what do we say?

We Agree on Everything

This belief ties well with reading minds. If you can read each other’s mind, then you don’t need communication; you can just assume your partner sees the world the way you do.

Even though you two speak the same language, you both grew up in a sea of different experiences. You were given separate dictionaries on life. This makes it impossible to share ALL of each other’s assumptions and expectations.

Take Leah and David, for instance. They had just finished undergrad and were planning on getting married. David, a minimalist, went and signed a lease for a small apartment outside of Portland.

He thought she’d be delighted.

When he opened the door, she flipped.

A couple may agree on traditional roles or have similar views, but that’s very different from assuming it as an entitlement.

Leah had been living in tiny-ass apartments her entire life. Married couples were supposed to live in nice houses with new cars in the garage.

She felt betrayed. He felt confused. The relationship didn’t last much longer.

A couple may agree on traditional roles or have similar views, but that’s very different from assuming it as an entitlement.

A no-effort relationship is not a great relationship; it’s a doomed relationship. It takes effort to communicate and understand each other. Love takes work. It takes work to expose and resolve conflicting beliefs and expectations.

However, that doesn’t mean there is no “happily ever after.”

It’s more like, “they worked happily ever after.”

Originally published at kylebenson.net

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kyle-benson/if-love-requires-work-was_b_9974628.html

In essence, choosing a romantic partner is choosing a set of problems.

Believing that being compatible with your partner means everything should come naturally is a sure way to naturally end any relationship you will have.

“Every [relationship] demands an effort to keep it on the right track; there is constant tension . . . between forces that hold you together and those that tear you apart.” — John Gottman.

The belief that relationship success should not need effort robs relationships of the fire they need to burn. So many relationships turn their hot and passionate fire of love into ashes, just because the couple believes that being in love means never having to do anything demanding.

This toxic belief shows up in two different ways:

Mind Reading

Part of the no-effort relationship fairy-tale is the belief that couples can read each other’s minds. My partner knows what I think, feel, and need, and I know the same for them.

The truth is, all couples are incapable of reading minds. Just the other day, my girlfriend said, “Kyle, I need more space.”

I’ve heard that before.

My heart dropped. I went into shock. Was our relationship doomed? I couldn’t believe it. I thought everything was going so well. We were laughing until our stomachs hurt, kissing all the time . . . what did I do wrong?

Finally I summoned the courage to ask, “What do you mean?”

“Your fat ass is taking up too much of our chair,” she said as she kissed me.

Oh. I’m so glad I asked.

In Nicholas Epley’s book, Mindwise, he asked couples to guess their partner’s self-worth, abilities, and preferences on house chores on a scale from 1-5. He found that couples were accurate 44% of the time, despite believing they were right 82% of the time.

Even more time together doesn’t help. Rather, longer-term relationships “create an illusion of insight that far surpasses actual insight.”

The quality of your relationship depends on your ability to understand your partner, and vice versa. The secret to understanding each other better seems not to come from mind reading, but through the hard work of putting our partners in a position where they can tell us their minds openly and honestly.

It’s quite delusional to believe in mind reading. But it makes sense when many couples who believe this also believe that a couple should share 100% of each other’s view on everything

Do you remember Cinderella?

That blond princess whose miserable life was instantly transformed by her gorgeous-smooth-move-well-dressed-billionaire prince charming. Well, I never knew her. She sounds like an evil step-daughter.

But I do know Cindy.

Cindy’s friends were telling her about this guy she might like. His name was Ryan, and he looked like David Beckham.

The next night Cindy and her friends went to one of his professional games. Her friends introduced them afterwards.

He took her hand, kissed it, and looked into her eyes.

“Next time we meet, it will be just you and me,” he said.

That did it. She was swept off her feet.

As they got to know each other, the intensity grew. They seemed to deeply understand one another. They enjoyed the same things; food, working out, and exotic beach towns. They both thought, the slipper fits!

It was like a damn Disney movie.

After a few months, Ryan became moody. Actually, he had always been moody, but it didn’t show at first. This bothered Cindy. She wanted to talk about what was bothering him, but he got irritated when she tried.

“Just leave me alone.”

Cindy felt shut out.

Once in a while they planned a romantic night on the town.

Sometimes Ryan didn’t want to go. Other times, Cindy would endure his silence over the candlelit dinner. Anytime she would say something, he would show his disappointment by saying something like, “I thought you knew me.”

Their friends, knowing how much they cared about each other, urged them to work on this problem. But the couple felt sad and frustrated.

Why should we work on it? If we were right for each other, we would be able to understand each other’s needs. We wouldn’t have any problems.

The relationship ended.

One of the most destructive beliefs for any relationship is this thought process.

“If we need to work at it, there’s something seriously wrong with our relationship.” — Aaron Beck

crackhaus:
The summary is that you people still want to be treated special like a lady and catered to, full stop!

The problem is that this isn't possible with equality, so pick one.

Let me ask:

Apart from money aka catering to and special treatment, what other thing do you have to offer a woman?

All I read is special treatment; catering to; all women wants to spend their men's money etc. etc.

FYI: This babe is equal with her man and treated specially.... Ditto him.

crackhaus:
You already understand it, you're just fighting it.

I honestly don't.

crackhaus:
I tagged you on a reply to Tèaroses on the boy's thread. That's the answer to this question.

I saw the reply and I don't relate going head to head with men & being equals. I have a question for Tearoses: Does her husband treat her as inferior? If yes, how? If no, then what is she talking about?

crackhaus:
I am already being and will be treated right all round on account of being a man, isn't that what you feminists are angry about?

Why getting angry when you can change it by choosing the right person to be with?

crackhaus:
Special treatment includes only some of the above.

What other special treatment does women get about from 'access' to their husband's money? How many of the anti-feminists here would really want to live the life of our grand-mothers? Infact terms like mutual respect, man treating you right etc. are 'modern' terms from people realizing that wives of yore had the short end of the stick

crackhaus:
I respect everyone who deserves to be respected regardless of gender.

Simples. That's all asked for. Keep your special treatment to yourself.

crackhaus:
They were pampered bukatyne—staying home and not working, but living big on the earnings of their husbands.

If you say so... One would think they had free access to the earnings.

crackhaus:
Feminism was a movement for rights to vote, education, and equal representation. End of!
It's people like you that started bringing it into family settings and causing problems for yourselves, just like the woman in the story.

I don't know what you mean by 'people like me' and I can't remember confiding in you about having problems. If you need to see your wife as inferior to you to treat her well, goodluck and that's why courtship is very key. The woman in the story did not start the ish; the guy did. I blame her for accepting anyways. Besides, what is usually referred to as 'feminism' today is telling men to pick up some chores if their wife works.

Again, these are discussions/beliefs pre-wedding.

crackhaus:
You don't need to pass on my special treatment, I'm not your husband and I wasn't offering it to you.

lols! I didn't marry a man who has to see me as his 'inferior' to be a good husband . Super lucky me!

crackhaus:
Lol, again you digress.
The issue of headship is a completely unrelated thing, and you're trying to juxtapose it with this conversation.

But I'll bite.
Yes, headship in a home has absolutely nothing to do with who earns more - but TRUE feminists don't even believe in headship na, isn't this where the woman's problem begun?

She is a feminist but still wants to enjoy the perks of being married to a man who earns more— she's in essence, desperately trying to merge 'her innate natural feminine desires of being catered for' with 'her acquired feminist ideology of being strong and independent.'

Unfortunately, smart niggas like Franco know you just can't merge those two, they're contradictory.
A woman is either for one or for the other, cant have it both ways.

You are really in no position to say what 'true' feminisms believe or don't believe in.

What is the perk of marrying a higher earning husband? The same perk a man has marrying a better cook?

cococandy:
Make your own money, perform your marital duties and expect to be cheated on. In summary, don't bother getting married because the person you're getting married to isn't worth the trouble ain't it Oga toks.

The usual gibberish

Thanks love for the summary

In essence, what is the gain of marriage to a woman?

crackhaus:
Now don't buy any gifts or surprise some of you so-called feminists whom you've known for only just 1year, na to begin with sentimental feelings of being under-appreciated and 'he's stingy' becomes your next favourite thought.
Why?

First, I believe a romantic relationship is different from a platonic one and if you were gay : , you would buy for your men

Second, not every girl is tripped about gifts; everyone has different love language.

Third, some ladies believe their men should spoil them with gifts and they reciprocate too (love is all about giving)

Fourth, that a woman believes she's equal to a man doesn't make her a saint. It is just that: a belief.

Sounding like a 7 point agenda.

crackhaus:
A woman demands equality—equal pay, equal representation, equal access to education/politics, equal respect, and equal rights to do anything a man is able to do, because according to her there are no differences between males and females (none is above or below the other).

This woman described above should not expect to be given special treatment on account of her being a woman, simply because she is just as a man is— two opposing genders residing on the same level where none is superior or inferior to the other.

However, if such a woman still seeks to be pampered and treated with more respect and consideration solely on account of her feminity, then she has subconsciously implied that she is actually more fragile, more emotional, and more inferior.
This position negates her earlier claim that men and women should be treated to the same rules and standards.

I don't pamper my male friends, so why should a woman who TRULY believes in equality be pampered?
*Emphasis on truly*

I am trying hard to understand this post

You must see a woman (especially yours i.e. wife/gf) as inferior before treating her well?

Does your woman have to see you as inferior before treating you right too?

What is your definition of treating well sef? Buying her gifts? Spending money? No respect of her feelings ? Opinions? Her personality?

Besides, if the women of yore felt pampered/specially respected, you wouldn't hear of feminism.

Again, do a poll and ask how many women (anti-feminists) who do not believe in your first paragraph, then this discussion will be sweeter.

I will pass on your 'special' treatment sha.

CBC: mindfulness

crackhaus:
You know a man is supposed to treat a woman SPECIAL even if she's a feminist.

I read this all the time and maybe you will help me understand.

What does it mean?

shaybebaby:
Succinct! She is bad at making financial decisions. Nothing to do with her ideological mindset.

Or maybe a self-martyr

thorpido:
Why did the woman agree that finances should be shared '50/50'?Can house work also be shared '50/50'?
She agreed with the man's proposal because she let feminism get the better of her.
In marriage,couples complement each other.There can never be 50/50 contributions in all aspects in a home.

Perhaps desperation.

Mindfulness:
Why would a woman get a car she cannot afford? She couldn't get a cheaper car?

Well well

PresVA:
Why is everyone saying "big weddings don't guarantee successful marriage"? So do small weddings guarantee successful marriage? ..whether big or small wedding, what matters is that the two persons involved genuinely love each other...

What's parlour traditional marriage? I wouldn't want that too. . Not even a small wedding kinda but parlour wedding? That means everything will be done in a small room or what? Because he doesn't want to show off? Who says celebrating love means showing off? Wish me and my husband can be celebrating our anniversary yearly .
The main thing is not spending beyond your means and from what you wrote money isn't even the problem. .so?

Sorry, your fiance should consider your feelings too.. BOTH of you are involved in this, not just him ... Both of you should reach a peaceful agreement where they'll be mutual happiness/satisfaction..

However, in as much as I wouldn't want a "parlour wedding" , I wouldn't let the issue come between me and my partner especially if he's a good man...
I wish you the best Op..

Absolutely on point!

steppin:
The guy might be hiding from an aggrieved ex and he doesn't want wahala on his wedding day.
The lady won't understand what some guys go through with their ex before they marry. Some of these women can go to any length to see that the wedding is stopped.
It might be the reason or it may not.

If the husband to be cannot share whatever he is running from (if any), doesn't it call to question the kind of marriage they are building?

Lol, these classes will definitely come in handy...maybe Mindfulness can help with that. grin

Their criticisms for the guy is borne purely from sentiments. Oh that guy is so insensitive and a total jerk, bla bla bla...

Well if a woman is going to be a jerk by using feminism and equality as her go-to-weapon when demanding equal partnership in the cooking/cleaning, then a man can also be a jerk by using equality as his go-to-weapon when it comes to finances.

In equality, there's no such thing as women should be treated with dignity and consideration when men can't also be treated with same dignity and respect.

She's a Queen, guess what? He's a king.
She's deserves the Princess treatment, guess what? He deserves the Prince treatment.
EQUALITY!

Princesses don't buy their own cars or pay for their own gifts? Well, guess what? A prince doesn't wash his own clothes/plates or cook his own food.
This is dignity and respect all round, everybody wins.

@crackhaus:

This is your first post I have come across as regards this complex subject (feminism/marriage/chores/finances) that makes sense to me. (* a compliment)

The guy is insensitive and a total jerk however, the woman is a fool for marrying him.

What I will say is that if anyone thinks she has to be unequal (whatever that means) to her husband to enjoy him, goodluck to her. Ditto him.

Funny story
This is what you get when you don't allow the man to lead therefore you don't enjoy the warmth & security that that avails.

She also wasn't clever enough to see that the 50/50 model wasn't going to work in an ideal world.
She should have seen that coming
If they did have kids, would he have breastfed them 50% of the time?
or would he have woken up to feed the baby 50% of the time?....of course not

I think her brain was on vacation when she agreed to the 50% finance sharing
I guess she was so concerned about not letting the feminist side down that she didn't take time out to think things through properly.

My thoughts on the matter........
If you let the man be the man, you will be a "spoilt" and pampered wife

@ Tearoses:

I am curious...

How was the wife supposed to let the man be the man? Reject his 50/50 idea when he brought it up before marriage?

As per your first statement: What does it mean? let the man spend more?

@Timbuktou:

I have read the story

AND

The wife was foolish for the following:

1. Not discerning the kind of man she dated for 7 years
2. Saying yes when he brought that stupid idea.

I see no where he mentioned splitting of chores or housekeeping so I want to assume the wife handled most of it. I see many that serves her 'right' as a feminist so I know it is all about that.

Hello peoples, how una dey. Recently came across an interesting article which I would like y'all to talk about. Our sisters welcome too.

Kimoni
Tearoses
Bukatyne. Etc...

Crackhaus, I decided to post it here after all.

So. Here goes.

I'm In Debt To My Ex-Husband. I Pay Him $120 A Month
Vanessa Garcia

Debt: $16,120

Source: Car loan

Estimated years until debt-free: Around 10 years

I’m about to marry my true life partner, and I’m carrying with me a debt to my ex-husband of $16,120. For the sake of clarity in telling the story of how this happened, I’m going to call my ex-husband Franco and my future husband by his real name: Ignacio.

I married Franco in my early thirties. We’d been together seven years by then, and marriage seemed like the right thing to do. Franco insisted that if we were going to get married, we had to share expenses, “50/50,” he called it. Feminist that I am, I had no problem with that. We agreed, and started to go about our married life. I paid for half the rent, half the couch. Groceries: same. If the nice area rug we bought online cost $300.82, then I paid $150.41.


The problem, however, was that he made 3 times the amount of money I did. I’m a writer and artist by profession. He owned a web design company that was doing very well.

It wasn’t long before I started getting very tired. I felt like I was working three times as hard as he was in order to meet my “half.” One day, I walked into his office at home, and he was sitting, shirtless, feet on his desk, playing with his chest hair. A realization hit me. He’s coasting, said the little voice inside me. The 50/50 model wasn’t balanced. I had to sweat much more for my 50%. I was investing cash and sweat equity.

I brought it up. I told him I thought it was unfair, but he wouldn’t budge. I started to worry. Was this a real partnership? Was this a union? This had nothing to do with feminism. Actually, if I didn’t speak up, fight against what I felt was an injustice, what kind of feminist would I be? But the question that had me in knots for days for days was: what would happen if we had kids?

To lighten the tension between us, we decided to take a little vacation. We took my car, a ’96 Mercedes Benz, out to the Mojave Desert. This was probably around 2010, so the car was old, but it had always been a real trooper. On our way home, however, the Benz started to choke, jumping up and down, like something was strangling it – the heat, our weight. It wasn’t working.

We had no signals on our phones, so we knew that if the car gave out, we’d be in trouble. But trusty as it was, it sputtered all the way back to Los Angeles, and, I’m not exaggerating, the second we pulled into our parking spot at home, it flat-lined. Franco, an agnostic, looked up and said out loud: “If there is a god, this sure is proof.” Relieved, we had a good, nervous laugh.

The next day when I brought up what we might do about the car, he made it clear that I was on my own. The only thing I could afford was a cheap lease, so I told him that. He thought that was a financially unsound idea, and concluded that he wouldn’t mind loaning me the money to purchase a new car.

Loan? My husband is going to “loan” me money? Something felt wrong about the whole thing, but I took the loan, and bought a car, while our marriage continued to sputter. We ended up in couple’s therapy, went through two therapists. One of them straight out suggested a divorce. The other was subtler, though she finally got us to unthread the knot we had woven when we decided to marry.

We filed an amicable divorce and remained friends. I told Franco that he should keep the car – I hated debts. His response was that the car had already devalued and was now worth less than the loan, so I would have to pay him the difference between its current value and the loan itself. I didn’t think this was a good deal at all. So, even though it was only a verbal agreement inside a marriage, I still carry the debt to this day. I pay my ex-husband $120 every single month. If I feel I can pay more a particular month, I do that.

Now older and wiser, I know what partnership means for me. Ignacio and I are in harmony. At one point, Ignacio offered to help pay my debt to Franco, but I refused. It was not his mistake, nor is it his responsibility. Also, sending off that electronic payment every month helps me to remember my mistakes, and, to some degree, reinforce the love I have for Ignacio.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/12/split-everything-marriage-money-debt-divorce

From: https://www.nairaland.com/1582623/boys-night-out-discussions/175#49413911