₦airaland Forum

MarvellousGod:
Of course, marriage also involves sacrifices but those sacrifices are made out of love and not compulsion. .

When they see things differently, they have to reach a decision/compromise and that decision will still be in the best interest of both of them...

In a marriage where the two partners love and value each other, submission or battle for Who is superior, inferior, subordinate, beneath, under or whatever is the least of their problem. ..

Mindfulness:
I have been following this discussion for a while now and it is nice to see that people can discuss important topics in a civil manner on NL.
I think you and Sagamite have made very enriching contributions and I hope you do not mind me butting in.

I disagree with you and Cococandy in this respect though.
Many, if not even most Nigerians, are very proud of their culture. There are very few Nigerians who reason like Sagamite and are thus critical of Nigerians, Nigeria, its people's mentality and behavior.

And to be honest with you, I think that it is this (often misplaced) pride (along with other reasons) that hinders them from doing better. It serves people to feel better about themselves (think of the slogan "Giant of Africa" ) instead of facing the reality. Nigeria is quite conservative when it comes to culture (even though the minds of the younger generations are being increasingly globalized now) and I can't help but think that this mindset is one of the reasons why Nigerians are not able to exhibit anything in the field of innovation, be it social, cultural or technological or anything else.

By the way, the biggest religion in India is Hinduism and not Buddhism and there are millions of Christians in India but it is not pride that did not allow for Christianity to spread wider around this country but the fact that the British did not allow the missionaries to enter India for almost 200 years. I will have to do some more reading on this topic.

[bThe point I am making is that Nigerians are too proud and too proud of the wrong things. And they lack the spirit of innovation. They will rather stuck to customs and practices that hinder them from development, all in the name of culture and tradition, than on innovation[/b].

I have just brainstormed my ideas, sort of, so pardon my lack of coherence in this post.

moca:
@Buky, dont go too far. It's already happening here.
There is a govt parastatal here that don't advertise for recruitment, recruit based on recommendations from the big shots in the society like top ceo's and top politicians.

If they will mistakenly look towards ur direction, ur school Alma matter matters a lot.

damiso:
I believe in that but I think there are some factors/environments that encourage and bring it fore. We talk about jews, igbos, ijebu people being entrepreural but I think its something that children growinh up in those communities subconsciously emulate.

My mum had never had just one stream of income and I had been going to help in shop from about 6 years old . Right from university I would sell stuff to my friends and even when job searching I was always looking for gaps that I could fill . While it might be partly inborn I think growing up in that environment brought it to the fore a bit

sparkleboy:
What an emotional thread!


Phew!!
Read from 1st to 7 th page, almost cried while reading the stories, I was particularly touched by DanjaNinja bukatyne and subzidi


I wish we could all love each other in this country regardless of tribe and ethnic affiliations.
Flyca thanks for creating this thread even though they tried to discourage you with the derailment of the first thread you showed the power of perseverance and persistence.

Babyosisi come check this out.

Timbuktou:
Bukatyne, I was going to call you out on your bvllshit but this atheist feminist above has set you straight.

Number 1. Buky, you don't have to agree with the bible.

Number 2. You do not have the authority to re-write the bible or misinterpret it deliberately. The bible explicitly states that wives are to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord. We all know what submission means and we can either accept to abide by biblical injunctions or dump them. We cannot make them into what we would like. Come on.

freshvine:
I like freecocoa. She's intelligent and unbiased in her view. She reminds me of late Vivian but this night she treaded the inglorious path

BABE3:
I'm a Christian o. Come aunty bukatyne, is it possible to be a Christian and not go by the bible? and just love my neighbor as myself ?


thoughts on this submission wahala? Dunno, don't care. Sowi.

tearoses:
I come running to give him one hot off the press aproko jist and the first thing he asks me is "Where did you hear that from? Is it from that your nairaland"
If I say yes, he Kisses his teeth

Very annoying
So sometimes I lie and say The Punch Newspaper

Onegai:
You have restored my faith in Christians. Thank you for this. Thank you so much.

This is awesome. A thread in Family section that is sane. We need to keep a lot of people out more often

Submission got abused, which is why women struggle with it. I naturally respect some people because of what they are, not because they're male or older.

freshvine:
We were interfacing until you call out my hubby which is totally unacceptable.

freecocoa:
I will take you up on this someday, in the religious section, wouldn't like to turn this thread into what it wasn't intended for.

Deal?

GHoJes:
I had to bring the holyspirit to tell you that it is only him that can make you do things the God's way not just because you like to do them. It is easy for one to become a born again but it aint easy to remain a born again even if the person want to. You know there are some godly virtues you want to keep but you cant that your flesh is weak. If you like put all your effort to such thing, it is only a matter of time you go back to where you started or continues with serious struggle to no good yield. It is the spirit that can make it light and help you it easily. Without being too spiritual, i tell you it is same spirit that can make you understand what i'm saying.
There are levels of submission, it is not just the basics.
Submission does not mean literally all things otherwise if your man says sleep with his boss for money and you disobey, you have not sinned. Your first and supreme submission is to God, anything short of his commands to you is the sin. Do you know of a young prophet God told to do something in the bible but an older experienced prophet came and told him otherwise, in submission he obeyed the prophet instead and paid by losing his life because he submitted to prophet more than God as the rule was for him to submit to the prophet.
That submission took cognisance of the woman's safety in that the man who submit to God can't demand ungodly submission from is wife.

GHoJes:
Sin is only pardonable by God and the yardstick he use for measuring is not for you and me to know. I know you must have seen two people commit same sin in your sight but paid differently by God. That part of the scripture is a very wise one which people overlook or abuse to their advantage. I think it must have ensued from men screaming submission without loving hence they gave them their needed submission with an attache because it is unlikely to find a loved woman not submitting. A man who does not love his wife christlikely (sinner) as no right to acuse his woman that doesnt submit (sinner) like the halot and the scribe cases in the bible.
A woman who disobey God in one or more levels and submit in all things to her husband is not better than a woman who does not submit at all to her man before God. My dear, the truth of the matter is, it is the holy spirit that can make anybody to submit to God or man the God's way. For sins that are not spelt outrightly in the bible like failure to submit in a particular thing that you feel is not right with God, the holy spirit will convict you. If you feel guilty it is sin from you but the spirit may not convict another in same shoe. Like paul said about those who eat idol meat and feel guilty, it is sin to them but it is not sin to those who eat it without feeling guilt. The conclusion of the matter is that you have no authority to lift that part of the bible for use without practising the rest lest the devil tell you paul i know, who are you?

There must not be incentive before submission, that is why the bible tell christain to marry only christains unless before the person became a christain so that there will be no issue with loving and submitting. Christain here mean practising one.

BABE3:
Hallelujah cocoa.

People are beginning to see the bible for what it is.
It's a new dawn.

freecocoa:
The bible is known to speak from both sides of the mouth, so....

No offence to anyone.

GHoJes:
From the christain view which you are looking at submission, it related it to a man being a true practising christain. If the act that brought the non submission is not christlike including treating the woman unjustly (certainly not christlike), then non submission is not totally out of place. Though not spelt out to the letter, it is same as children obey your parents in the lord otherwise people will force their children to obey them in all things because the bible said so. To confirm that it is meant for men that are truely christlike, it went further to tell the man to love like christ. The question therefore is, has the man screaming submission from his woman loved or is willing to love like christ? Does he even know what it means to love like christ? Does he know christ to start with? Some of the people screaming the "christain" submission as you put it, only go to church on new year's eve, only know that portion of the bible because their fellows said it is in the good book, are certified or uncertified atheist. Do you know that there's a reward/motivation for submission?

Firstly, submission is not forced, it is of freewill as in man to God. Secondly total submission can only be to God regardless of the situation because only him is perfect. Inspite of this, there is non righteous that totally submit at all times to a perfect God let alone to an imperfect man, one can only strive to be perfect.

As i hinted before, even God rewards those who submit to him by lifting them up as he said in Peters or motivates you to submit by lifting you up to acknowledge that it is grace that made it and thus humble yourself, where you ungreatfully does not recognises his grace, he can decide to bring you down. In same vein, the man is told to love his wife like christ love the church as the woman's return for submitting. It is only an ungreatful woman that will not submit to a loving man. In my Pov, it is actually difficult to love like christ than to submit. If many men give themselves to understanding aside doing the christ type of love, they will be too overwhelmed to scream submission because then they will see the bigger log is in their eyes.

Treating your fellow human unjustly is a sin before God. Basically if the act is not just or is a sin before God then the woman can decide not to submit.

freecocoa:
The point remains, what if he fails in his part? Does that mean you should fail too?

mutter:
A wise woman and a good woman would submit to her husband in all things.
If what the man wants is a sin agains God then she is bound to obey the will of God. I think we shouldn't really be asking that because the answer is obvious.
Submitting to your husband does not come natural to many women you really have to work at it over and over again but with time if you really try you can achieve this.
You even learn to be proud of yourself for having that quality because it really is the foundation of a good home and family.
As the bible says .. all is vanity but true love is not boastful or proud.
It is so much easier and humorous when a woman submits to her husband than when she is in constant power struggle with the man.
Some people argue that men could abuse submissiveness. But men also abuse women who are not submissive.
The most important thing is at the end of the day you know you gave your best, you did it right in the eyes of God and of man.
The man is the head of the home and the woman cannot be equal to the man. Even if you are superior to him by virtue of education or any other reason. It is your duty to relinquish that superiority and place yourself under him. That is true love and that is one of the most relevant qualities of a good wife.

limamintruth:
lol
The Biblical submission doesnt mean being unequal. Remember the same Bible regards marriage as a legal union where two separate individuals(male&female) become one indivisible body.
How then can there be inequality after the couple have become one body?

As someone said earlier, each spouse has a special role to play that is neither greater/better nor less important than that of the other spouse. They are to work as a team, and not as rivals or competitors (just as the head cannot rival the hand, same way the neck cannot be competing with the stomach).

Sorry for barging in anyways since the O.P clearly pointed out that this thread is for feminists only.




I very much agree with you except the 'the man being the boss thingy'.

Biblically, being the Head does not automatically translate to being 'the boss' as you put it.

Remember Jesus Himself explained that the greatest among you should be the servant of all.
Hence, being the Head is about being the servant of all, because as the head of your family, you are expected to make lots of sacrifices for your family(the same way Christ Jesus served the church and gave His life for her - the supreme sacrifice).

Therefore, being the boss is totally out of the question. Mutual respect is what is required.




Sorry but this opinion of yours is more cultural than biblical.


Once again, apologies to the O.P for barging into her feminazi thread.

cococandy:
The same way my husband would be disobeying god if he doesn't honor me. If he does honor me, we wouldn't have reason to be at odds because I'll have a place of honor in my home and not the place of an inferior partner.

Theres a reason why both parties have to keep their part of the commandments.

People need to focus some more on what husbands are commanded to do. Wives have heard theirs over and over it has become so stale.

Phema:
Now, that is common sense.

shaybebaby:
Don't know why but everytime I see that word "submission", my brain refuses to process it. It is does not equate to love when it is demanded.
Also, trying to ascribe a different meaning to it biblically wont work because we all know that according to the times when those texts were written, it was a much more patriarichal society where women were seen as being less to men. Hence freecocoa is correct in the dynamics required for submission to take place..superior (men) and inferior ( women) according to the book.
A sense of self worth is required in a healthy partnership, submission negates that. How can you reject poo if it thrown at you and submit at the same time?

MarvellousGod:
This submission thingy doesn't bother me. He treats me fine and I treat him fine too.. we're both happy, that's all that matters to me....

I can't say if I'm submissive or not because my opinions count so much in our relationship but he's ok with it. He allows me make so many decisions. .

I aim to make him happy and he does same, that's all... You should know what your spouse wants. You can't marry a traditional man and expect him not to act like a 'boss', in this case you just have to give in except you want trouble in your home. That's what you signed up for, you should have quit during courtship. .

Bottom line: you know your spouse and what pleases him/her, just do it.. that's all....

Also, if you've been 'submitting' to your husband/wife and both of you are fine with it, please continue.. Both of you alone know how best to run your home.. as long as everyone is happy, I see no qualms....

shaybebaby:
No, it means you are manipulative.

Phema:
Nice thread. But again, you are not defining submission in marriage according to the Bible.

The Bible says "wives submit to your husbands in all things". This means that you MUST do your husband's bidding ALWAYS, even when it really doesn't make sense.

And no. A husband and wife are not equal, biblically. You donot submit "in all things" to someone you are equal to. The way I see it, one is either a christian who lives by the Bible or an athiest/non practising christian who lives by common sense. No middle grounds. A real christian woman must submit to her husband always, hence not equal to him.

Now, my question is; what if my husband wants me to do something that is obviously a sin? At what point does one say no to submission without going against God's word?

freecocoa:
I did not, no need.

It was just saying what charity does.

freecocoa:
I did not, no need.

It was just saying what charity does.

dinachi:
I believe I did not specifically mention your name in my post and so far it has been okay. Be advised. Leave it that way.

cococandy:
What is regberegbe bukatyne.

I swear I'll slap this phone one day
Oversabi autocorrect.
You can't believe how long it took to type that word.