₦airaland Forum

Sagamite:
Nope.

https://www.nairaland.com/141689/rough-guide-best-most-reputable/8#10451429

https://www.nairaland.com/141689/rough-guide-best-most-reputable/11#37011161

Thanks a lot

So it is more like those in the lower ranks get bitten by the 'system'

Nigeria is coming up with such too. Some employers now specify the University degrees they want too. Even secondary schools matter that's why some parents spend all their life savings to put their kids in schools with outrageous fees.

@Edwife:
Do the lower class whites have it any better? Or is the 'system' skewed against them too?

@damiso:
I agree with you that America has to employ less aggressive tactics when dealing with 'black' suspects. I think the black youth should also be less 'confrontational' and step up their game. It is harder crying foul when some of us are working hard at keeping the stereotypes alive. This is a collective effort of NIN and NID

@babygirlfl:
Very True...even here, Yorubas/Igbos think they are better than each other same with Christian/Muslims etc. i think it also doesnot help that majority of immigrants go there in search of 'better life' and our home countries are in the news for all the wrong reasons.

@Tearoses:
You are right; it lies with the individuals at the end of the day.

@Cococandy:
There will always be people who prefer the perpetual state of victimhood. It gives them the perfect excuse for failure

Abeg Sagamite and Sirshymmex no fighting here o!

Sagamite:
There is hardly anything like institutional racism in the UK. What you have is institutional stereotpying and institutional connections. Same as everywhere in the world.

As a black man, I actually think if you are well qualified, the door is easy and wide open at the lower levels. It is actually an advantage to be black at the lower levels. They will check your quality and if your are of the right quality, they will walk you through the door.

The challenge for the black man in the UK is at the top. Unfortunately, this is where institutional stereotpying and institutional connections come in.

People at this level are hired based on who you know and what gloss you have. There is still an aristocratic class still ruling the country. If you are not networked with this class and not an Oxbridge (or, at least, Top 10 uni grad [where posh kids go]), then you will struggle to break into the top, be you white, brown, black, green, blue or whatever.

Many blacks are not connected in this network. They did not attend Eton, Winchester, Harrow, St Paul's etc and then follow on with a degree at Oxford, Cambridge or LSE. Those high schools are where most top positions are already being shared. The connections made.

Look at Kweku Adoboli. He was black but rose to the top quickly. Within 5 years, he moved from back office analyst role to front office senior manager role making £350K a year and spending £5K a month on renting a one-bedroom apartment.

First of all, to get to that senior front office role from a junior front office role takes longer than that. Not to talk of from a junior BACK office role.

Secondly, it is extremely rare to have someone from back office transitioning to front office. Talkless of transitioning to front office and accelerating.

But he, as a black man, did it.

Why?

He was headboy at a UK private school, went to the reasonably posh Nottingham University. One of my buddies actually studied the same degree with him and knew him well. He was not exceptionally brilliant.

https://www.nairaland.com/760569/ghanian-man-arrested-over-2billion#9155035

He had the connections, understood the upper class culture and knew their language.

He probably was also good at his job. He had an affinity to trading. We all have our natural affinity.

As for institutional steroetyping, unfortunately, many in the black race are dumb fuuktards. Other races tend not to see blacks as intelligent because of our behaviours, priorities, how our rulers have ruined the continent and our popular culture.

Steroetyping is normal and natural (although unintelligent) human process of making quick decisions. As long as these moronic fuuktards keep embarrassing the few of as that are inch sharp, the glass ceiling would remain thick especially for those that do not have the connections and academic gloss.

To summarise, black guys have it easy at the bottom in the UK, but their rise to the ultimate top is limited because of primarily lack of aristocratic connections and secondarily stereotype. The aristocratic connections is still held by a few whites. They exclude other whites.

Hmmm, this is a nice and deep post

From what I hear, educationally and socially sound blacks usually do not have these experiences

@babygirlfl and cococandy:

Super nice one

You remind me of someone who thinks career women make terrible wives yet she is amassing certifications & extremely good at What she does


And she is married with kids

Re marriage inequality talks: it is only one married poster I have gotten the feel from her posts. She is the only one I would say really believes it.

Other sisters... hahahahahhhaha!

Perhaps we should play a game:

Let all the married women ask their husbands If they are inferior to them..

A 'baby/sweetheart this equality stuff in the air, What do you think? Is a man equal to a woman? Are we equals'

I am in a naughty mood

babygirlfl:
I am not arguing with you. I believe we are having a discussion.

I asked what you think feminists preach and you said you honestly don't know then write an epistle about what you think they preach. When you talk of feminists thread, how many of them where actually opened be feminists or had feminism in the topic? It is always a case of feminism being dragged into everything.

I would like to start by asking you some questions.

Is it only feminists that insult people on this forum?

Is it only feminists that tarnish people's image in this forum?

Is it only feminists that are intolerant to other women?

Is it only feminists that have insulted Omotola?

All the things you have mentioned are not exclusive to feminists. Some women who say they are not feminists can be very abusive. Some of them dig out posts and use it against you to tarnish your image.Some will support men who call feminists names while some will laugh at feminists. Tell me if these behaviours are from someone who is tolerant. What I am trying to say is that it goes both ways but it seems it only becomes a problem when it's a feminist doing it and not when a non feminists is doing it. Omotola has been attacked by non feminists too. In short in one thread, it was the feminists that was on her side. Chimamanda is always attacked and insulted by non- feminists. The insult Omotola received is nothing close to what Chimamanda gets on a daily basis. You picked Omotola's case but not chimamanda's because you agree with Omotola and not necessarily because she got it worse than Chimamanda.

Many non feminists also can't understand how a feminists can get married and stay married. Some will tell you that you will remain a spinster if you are not married or that you will soon be divorced if married while some will keep doubting that you are married because they can't put their head around the fact that they are many feminists who are married, have stayed married and is happily married. One even keeps saying that there is no happily married feminists.

When did feminism become about free the tip. Feminists where not disowning anybody. They were refusing to be dragged into what has nothing to do with what they stand for.

Nigeria is a country where most people say one thing and do another. Many women will do everything a feminists believes in and still say she is not a feminist. So it is not surprising that most of your great achiever women will not attribute it to feminism. Also a movement cannot be a secret to success and feminists have never claimed to be a secret to success. Rather it fights for the right for you to achieve what you want to even though you are a woman.

After reading your posts, it is clear that feminism is not the problem rather it is the definition and what you believe it to be that is the problem. Why did you decide to leave the meaning of something and judge it by your own definition?

This thread still dey?

This post of yours is classic

Timbuktou:
What has FG got to do with the fight for feminism. Is feminism a FG-sponsored movement? so, you're not after equality after all, you're after getting an undue advantage.

One would think a proud feminist would have the honour to abide by the definition of feminism but one would be wrong. It is becoming clearer by the second that while feminism purports to be for equality for all genders, in spirit it is a sinister cult, thanks Kimoni, whose main aim is to further the interest and welfare of women at the expense of men. E don tey wey una done display dis una stale market, we nor dey buy madam. Carry your market go front.

You got it right, I want an undue advantage and there is a conspiracy in Federal Ministry of Health to make men train kids that are not theirs.

Timbuktou:
I hope your sistren can go by the google/dictionary definition of feminism and stop looking for quotas up and down.

After Federal Government stop theirs

Kimoni:
That definition, Bukatyne is a figment of your imagination. You can't define anti-feminism when the root word remains undefined. The day you stop discriminating against and start practicing "free the tips" and "free blood flow", then we can truly start defining anti-feminism

Feminism is clearly defined.. Google it. Anti anything is the opposite of a thing, not so?

I am sure all 'true Muslims' must be boko haram apologists.

@Kimoni:

I did not drag you into equality discussion o, was just pointing something out.

Re free the tip: I have not seen a responsible man 'freeing his tip' afterall if I want to copy men, I will copy responsible stuffs.

Re equality: what is your definition of 'equality'?

Timbuktou:
Help you to do what? Help you shift the goalpost from where you and your sistren initially erected it? You wailed for equal treatment, you were given and you do not measure up. Now you're asking for aids and grants claiming it's part of equal treatment. I call bvllshit on that. Either you feminists want equal treatment or you accept your limitations and men may choose to grant you quotas.

Babygirl has gotten the message

babygirlfl:
It is ok when it is part and parcel of human relations. Just like many things, it is only a problem when it involves women. Most of these men shouting about quota system don't have a problem with it when it is used for other reasons. It is when it has to do with women. You mentioned Nigerian politics which is very true. It is the only way some people will ever get political position.

What most people don't know or rather refuse to acknowledge is that quota system is almost always as a result of a bad system or belief. I don't support quota system but I do know that before quota system can be abolished, the bad system or belief should first be abolished.

God will help us

Timbuktou:
Google would better answer that.

Did you get the percentile of successful women from Google?

Help a sis here

babygirlfl:
I stopped our conversation when I realised he was just about towing the same line many people tow in family section. It's so difficult these days to have a discussion.

When I read the OP, I was thinking he had read too much novels or lived abroad for too long as Nigeria is not ripe enough for such conspiracy.

Further reading exposed the agenda of the thread.

Kimoni:
Are you kidding Bukatyne? so you think it's only feminist that believe that a woman can be whatever she wants to be? I laugh in Swahili

Is that what you guys even preach? then I have never heard it.

I honestly don't know what anti-feminists (people who do not believe men and women are equal) think about that subject matter however Timbuk2 is the closest to it.

I have only seen one or two female posters whose posts reflect the men and women are not equal thingy. The rest?

The basics of feminisn is online. What others decide to build on it is none of my business

Timbuktou:
Just because she is more successful than you doesn't mean she can carry a candle to me. Are you sure she's a researcher or a lab attendant? Let's not get carried away please.

Meanwhile, these women are anomalies. A mere percentile of the larger female population.

What is the percentile of 'successful' men in the world male population?

perryy:
[b]As a male banker who is in the know of how those ladies operate, I won't allow my son to marry any female bank marketer.[/b]In our branch here in Ota, we had a case where a colleague of ours dated a father and went on to date his son when the man died,all in the name of deposit. The pressure is just too much for them.

How will a woman who has signed a post dated letter of resignation says no to a man who promised her 100m deposit? She knows the only thing that will make her regional head not to forward her letter HCM at the end of the month is her meeting her target or even 50% of it. If she says yes to the man, she will keep her job and may even be celebrated, depending on how much she has brought in relation to her target, if she says no, she is out of the job at the end of the month. Can her husband pay her 300k per month? How much is her husband's salary self? The temptation is NOT resist able

@Bold:

I would Also not let my daughter marry a male bank marketer.

The men must Also be doing terrible things underneath If you are competing with ladies ready to deposit their punnany.

Until the banking sector is reformed, marketing in a bank is not a good. career path.

The new husband should apologize to the BIL playfully still retaining his respect and avoid the BIL going forward.

Na minus one be that.

If you think no one is good enough for your child/sibling, kindly marry that person yourself.

Enough of all these overbearing in-laws.

Who are these women's clients in Dubai

Timbuktou:
I'm not saying feminism invented it. My point is feminism has been hard on the push for quota systems in mostly the workplace to ensure equal/adequte representation of women in these environments.

In the FGC and MPS you mentioned, adopting a quota system is antithetical to merit and fairness. Quota system in school admission processes defeats the purpose of an entrance exam in the first place, same as in the workplace. It is disingenuous for feminists to ask government to establish quota systems to benefit women.

Thankfully you acknowledged that feminism did not start quota system so there is no need listing it as one of the ills of feminism.

Quota System will always be part and parcel of human relations. Infact, it is used in Nigerian politics sef.

Do I support it, no.

TV01:
Really?
From a feminist leaning paper;
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/21/feminists-obsessed-elite-metropolitan-lives-low-paid-females

Some of your pronouncements are totally "like huh?". One really has too question how much you really know - about Christianity and feminism

After all the time you've spent on NL discussing this - and with the hordes of "intelligent" women and fellow feminists - surely you can do better?

Eku weekend


TV

@Bold,

Same can said about you . The person whom my post was addressed to has replied.

Have a great weekend

.

Mikollon1:
D

WTF is this individual yapping about?

Are we reading the same thread at all?

Since you are "sure" our forefathers had inexpensive ways of checking, could you please suggest a few for the house?

Please direct me to that post of mine that made you feel I don't believe in equality.

This lady is so pained about my thread it's making her lose her mind.

You know, when you get your facts right, people tend to be scared to debate you because they know you will own them. Those that wanna dare to take the risk to debate will choose the format of throwing mud to the wall. They will pull things out their a55es and say you said it or insinuated it. Some will even try to put you in a category like this one that tried to tie me to a book.

I could P.S. with an insult to her but I'll refuse to act like an average Nigerian.

When you are ready for a decent conversation, you can requote me

Kimoni:
You lie

Anybody can be whatever he or she wants to be. If she believes it strongly enough and wants it bad enough, she will do whatever a man can do.

Interesting

And you do not believe men and women are equal?

That's one of the points anyways.

@Timbuktou:

Quota system has absolutely nothing to do with feminism.

From admission into Federal Government Colleges to determination of cut off marks, quota system has been used to ensure equal representation in a multi party system.

Feminism sorry.

Mikollon1:
Yea right. Equality indeed.

It is easy to know a person's intent after a few posts.

You 'believe in equality' with equal rights and responsiblities. A lady tells you she agree with you and next post goes ahead to claim she is lying.

Oga, no need for 'I believe in equality' to save face... infact saying you believe men are superior will score you points in this section... expect my cheque for the expo later

@OP: I do not know the conspiracy theories you dreamt about; just be rest assured that the 'Govt' is currently not interested in depriving hhusband's from knowing If their wives are cheats. They are interested in exploiting the masses. Check all foreign based technology and see How expensive they are.

Forget foreign based sef; Nigerians are out to exploit one another. A lady was begging a buyer(who owns a huge clothes store) to pay N4,500 for an item. Right in front of the lady, the buyer sold it N15,000 to a customer.

Besides, I am sure our forefathers had inexpensive ways of checking paternity, we can go back to that.

@Garbage collectors: please tell me any one you have seen setting out to become one. While at it, campaign for more boys to be househelps and more men to be alabaru in Balogun Market. Before I forget, Also ensure that we see more of male child grooms.


Besides, have you read 'The Manipulated Man' by Esther Vilar? You sound such.

Jamean:
To an extent I want to agree with you and see things from your view point. Some cases like this the man sings his praise and the woman becomes weary. Only a strong woman will come out of that kind of relationship cause she knows that marriage with such man be worse.

Also, some ladies will struggle and support a guy yet he will prefer a posche sleek lady when he is made.

Btw, I propose that people marry around their level. Especially wealth and education wise. Don't come from an average family and be looking for a made man who is so rich or you don't plan to go beyond OND yet your spouse plans to further till PHD and have an official career.

There are days you can't handle the feelings of intimidation.

@Bold: word.

There are exceptions though

The OP is very correct.

Think about it, your mother whom you hold in high esteem is someone's daughter who left her family and cleaved to her husband ditto your father.

A MIL is the queen of her husband and should reign there.

And I never pray to compete with my DIL for my son's love/attention. My husband's love/attention is enough for me.

A good MIL knows that her son's attention is for his wife Now.

Also remember your wife has a family she came from.

^^^^^^

Hahaha!

@OP:

Five years later, I still do not understand What this tread is about.

While it seems a generalization, Nigerian bank marketers (male & female) are very likely to be 'tempted' to deposit their bodies/soul for 'full' salaries and mouth watering commissions.

Let's not forget unachievable targets they are expected to meeting like their relatives have a money spinning machine in their backyard.

Is your friend willing to switch to another aspect of banking or move to another industry If she is passionate about sales? Not necessarily for her fiance although He is a factor here

And I would not let any of my children be bank marketers If I had my way.

tete7000:
Joseph lived with Portiphar's wife for a long time before that incident. If you read your bible well it tells you at various times, the woman had tried many times to seduce him but he constantly refused. He found a way to always avoid her, metamophorically constantly fleeing from her. It was on a particular day the woman wanted to force him to lay with her that he ran and left his cloth with the woman. Of course the woman will later used the same cloth to lie against him. He landed in jail because he couldnt displease God.
One thing you can be sure of is that you are no man, I am. Imagine that I work in a place and there is a woman trying to seduce me there, do I abandon my work because the bible say I should flee and becomes jobless? Let say I do so with my first job and luckily get another and face the same situation, do I do that in all my subsequent places of work and ultimately becomes an insane who can't hold on to a job? The problem with many people is that they give literal translations to biblical quotations. Flee doesnt necessary mean run, it means don't put yourself in situation where there is no way out of temptation for you, where you can but compromised. If you have to work with a seductive coworker for instance, leave the door always open and don't remain alone with such a person long after people have gone. Only in extreme cases where you are totally helpless must you leave jobs. Fight the devil back with spiritual war- prayer when necessary and live to let people know what your stand on christian moral issues are at all times.
Temptation is part of a Christian life. Go back and read the parable of the weed I recommend to you. You will understand God doesnt expect us to live without the devil. He is ever present tempting us but the grace to overcome temptation is given by God himself. A life of constant prayer and vigilance is what we need. We can't be paranoid about being tempted that our live is totally devoid of any useful purpose:- we stop doing the job we like, we can't accomodate a helper we need. That is not christianity and that is not what the scripture meant by flee my sister.
Anyone indulged in live will never grow. Even our immune system doesn't develop until exposed to disease. Moderate exposure to temptation is needed for a strong and vibrant spiritual life not a paronoidal running from everything seen as temptation. How can a decent and modest house-girl living with a woman becomes a perennial source of temptation to her husband? In that case it is no longer the girl who is the source of temptation to the man but man the source of temptation to the poor girl. He chases her around the house seeking to have intercourse with the poor girl and claims the girl tempts her? Nonsense! Who tempts who?

Why do you want to marry a 'Christian man' that can't see a maid without desiring sleeping with her? The same thing Portiphar's wife sought to do with Joseph. What sort of useless man is that? Where is his spiritual strength? Will he walk on the road and seek to sleep with all the half nude girl walking around too? If he prevents a maid from living with him, can he prevent his co-worker from indecently dressing to work too? Jesus lived as man here on earth, He was surrounded and was catered for by women not related to him and you didn't hear he lusted after those women neither did you read he kept the women at bay from himself. He should be model of every serious Christian man.

You just dey sweet me seriously

tete7000:
If we live like this we basically will be teaching our male children:' My male child you are weak, it is ok to be weak and it is the duty of the society to ensure that you don't fall into temptation. When they become weak, rape and get condemned into prison then we tell them don't mind the society that condemned you to this fate, it is a wicked society. Or do you suppose weakness will be excuse to exonorate such a weak male child? NO! Our appeal however not save the child from incarceration, will it? Do you think it will, I doubt'
I am a christian and honestly you can't be too sure of how many temptations of this nature I have had to face. When God put the fruit in the garden, have you ever ask yourself why? If you haven't I ll explain it to you. Their can be no faith without temptation. There can be no love proven without an avenue to cheat. It is in face of temptation we prove our loyality to either man or God. Consistently leaving in and resisting temptation is what strengthen our resolve to do good. Show me a person who has never had reason to resist temptation and I ll show you one who has never began to live in reality. Our spiritual journey itself consists of everyday saying NO to the devil and YES to God. Will God remove the temptation from the surface of the earth so that we can have a stress-free journey to heaven? Definitely No, Jesus illustrated this in the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13:24-30. Kindly endeavour to study it.

And you ask me which man has stood in face of temptation and resist it? Did you not read about Joseph in the bible? Yes Joseph, he resisted and God promoted him ultimately because of his choice. You want to mention David I guess? Did God not punish him for the sin? Was any excuse from him tenable before God? Definitely NO. And was the woman actually living in the house with him when he committed the sin? No, meaning a lustful man will always seek occasion to perform his nefarios act whether it is present in the house or not. Only a Godly resolve save man from this sin.
I grow up in a house where house girls mostly matured ones are constantly present, so I don't see any big deal in living with house girls. Living with house girls for me is not an issue and I dont see the difference between it and living with any other female relative. Infact they come in and are seen and respected as part of the family.

There is hope in Nigeria afterall