₦airaland Forum

Haba plaetton, which kind of wicked classification is this? You didn't use Mary, tithe etc to classify Christians but self service?

Haba bro, you no try o.

Gombs: Sorry Ma'am


That's their level of knowledge, mature sons don't. Meanwhile if you insult minsters of the gospel for whatever reason, you walk in a curse, not that God cursed you, you walk out of blessings with/by your words and/or actions.

This means you're very immature because see you purporting to 'curse' somebody on another thread

Gombs: Point for me in the OP where he said she is no longer a woman of God...if not, and if u can't, I curse you!

https://www.nairaland.com/1892171/pastor-chris-oyakhilome-addresses-whole/22#26156679

And you persisted in the immaturity even after numerous corrections from well meaning individuals.

This is without prejudice to the fact that your curse or any so called mog's curse on any christian is a futile exercise of the vocal cavity and empty rambling from the pit of self delusion. If you're an Eze nmuo or your mog is, let us know for that is another discussion.

Gombs: Have you ever met me before? Do you know anything about me? It's like me doubting Goshen is in the States or Nora in Austria. If you speak those, fine, who am I to doubt?

Good

Your opinion, and you are entitled to one.

I'm sure you got the message

I should defend the prophecy? Did you read the title at all? It says, What do you think? not, "Godprophet was right". I said what I think, you should say yours, simple.

Of course he's a charlatan engaging in childish guessing and you're trying to defend him hence you're bold enough to compare those who doubt him to Israelites who doubted Moses and God.

1. I never said she shouldn't.

Good

2. Polishing your English aint same as Stop speaking english.

She's doing good for someone who wasn't instructed in English and will only get better than even some nairalanders who have been speaking and writing English all their lives.

3. Glad to know her daughter is a volunteer in the fight of Ebola, best wishes, didn’t however know there were criteria to comment on an African forum.

You're obviously interested in knowing so much about her. You even boasted you know 50% of her already. You even confessed she interests you. I'm only trying to assist you in your quest

4. In other words, as Ban ki Moon is Korean, it's an excuse to have half polished English and comment in a public forum, and when advised to polish it up, his excuse would be he was tutored in Korean and not English, and his son is a volunteer somewhere in the world and hence has earned to write to speak or write anyhow?

Don't you think its an overkill comparing an ordinary Austrian citizen with a career diplomat and the number 1 civil servant in the world? Also listen to ban ki Mon today and realise his spoken English sucks. I would rate Nora higher than Ban ki Mon considering all the resources, opportunities and privileges at Ban's beck and call

Classic!

Oya, what do you think of the topic of the thread, comment or roll over. Thanks buddy!

Of course another charlatan on the loose.

You were just attempting to bully me now na... quit being a saint you aren't sir!

OK. I agree I'm no saint so let's both stop the bullying

Cheers

Gombs: Neither is it mine, and I speak two other languages too, my Spanish and French is poor though!

This Gombs can form!!! Spanish and french? Who dash you? Where you learn them? If its so easy like that, then in addition to your poor Spanish and French, I also speak Italian and German (though poor). Oya beat that!

Pls stop displaying arrogant ignorance. What has been your language of instruction since you started school, most likely at 3? If your english isnt better than Nora's who obviously must have been instructed in German all her life, then you should bury your head in shame. At least she's conversing freely on a forum based on English language, can you do same on any forum in Spanish or French or Swahili which is African?

Also, instead of you to continue your defence of the childish guesswork you call prophecy from your dear godprophet, you're busy attacking an Austrian's English. Haba, have you forgotten the title of the thread?

Abeg leave the woman alone jare. If anything, for the fact that her daughter is a volunteer in the fight against Ebola in Africa, she has earned the right to comment on an African forum.

Pls Stop the bullying.

Nice thread and very sensible and thoughtful comments all round. The reason why this renaissance will be difficult is the same reason why there's scanty traffic here: our youth are simply not interested. Discussions like this wont get them money or fame so why will they waste time on it? It requires selflessness, thoughtfulness and a desire to work for the common good of society but these virtues and values have long being killed in the African youth by irresponsible, thoughtless and greedy leadership. We live only for money now and this makes us impervious to the plight of our people and unconcerned about the continent's future. We are more concerned now with acquiring the latest gadgets, western fashion and our leaders are even more interested in getting western approval of their governments than the appraisal of their people.

We all need to work towards a change of values plus mentality and it'll be good if we can be honest enough to start with the "man/woman in the mirror"

XOXmedia: @ candour,

A true christain after perceiving the fruits of another brethren, ought to take the right path. The wrong thing to do, is to gather yourselves together with those outside the fold(atheists, muslims, et al) in an uncontrollably excited forum, and raining curses and jests on a brother facing temptations from the devil and his agents. The right thing to do is as paul wrote to the romans in (Romans 15:14)
[And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.]

@the bolded, I'm sure its in obvious reference to the issue of the G.O whose wife took to court. Well for your info bro, that story is very immaterial to me and I don't have the time or energy to waste on it. Its their home and its their choice to destroy it through indiscretions if they will.

My own issue is that of the misapplication of 1Chr 16:19-22 by some mortals in a bid to Lord it over other Christians because they're bold enough to attach pastor etc to their names. That has no basis in Christianity. If you agree with me, then I rest my case on your thread.

XOXmedia: @candour, to keep you in the loop, let me make myself clear so that you can understand the diversion on your part.

With good intention, you were butressing the point where God said ''touch not my anointed' which refers to God's warning to [the heathens] as a protection for [his chosen people].

Now, my point of using ''speak not against my anointed'' was simply to push my reasoning that [the anointed of God] [amongst his chosen people] should not be spoken against. In Numbers 12:6, God revealed that if there was really a true prophet amongst his chosen people, he will reveal himself to the prophet in dreams and visions. This leaves the people with the freewill to confirm if they truly perceive the man of God to be a true prophet through the fruits he exhibits(matthew 7:16)[By their fruits, you will know them...]. Now, christians become vulnerable because of the freedom of choice (Deuteronomy 30:15)[See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;]. My point is, it is up to you. Simple.

Hope you understand?

@the bolded is the problem with your position. I'm glad you were honest about it being a "pushing of your own reasoning". Its your conclusion you drew with no biblical basis. Note that this isn't an attempt to encourage insults or verbal abuse on anyone but I rebel against a subtle intention to place any man on a high pedestal where he sits like the high priests of Israel over other Christians. Christianity isn't Judaism.

Under the new covenant, we all are now priests under the high priesthood of Christ and no man no matter how big his bible is, has any right on this earth or in heaven to make other Christians tremble in reverence to him so much so that they are forced to keep quiet in the face of glaring evil.

Your admonition about not speaking evil of an anointed should cover every single child of God today. If a pastor cannot be spoken against, then you too shouldn't be spoken against. If anybody will be punished for pointing out the fault of the G.O, then they'll be punished too for doing that to any child of God who is an 'ordinary' gateman somewhere.

The era of a priesthood over the people of God is over. The veil hiding the holy of holies has been cut and destroyed. No more intermediaries, no more untouchables. We all are brothers and equal in the body of Christ.

Cheers

No. They didn't die for work of salvation, they died in a search for signs and wonders.

Without bothering myself with the dirty spat between one mere man and his wife (married couples have problems everyday the world over so mr chris having an issue with his wife is just another addition to the statistics), Can you pls reproduce any incident analogous to the Miriam and Moses type in the new testament?

Also see the scripture below

1 Chronicles 16:19-22 KJV
When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it. [20] And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people; [21] He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes, [22] Saying , Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

This scripture was reechoed in Psalms 105:12-15

Do you honestly think it refers to a man of God or the totality of the people of God(Israel in that context)?

The church isn't under attack. Bad things simply happened to some mere mortals like it happens to folks all over the world.

Buildings collapse every now and then, particularly when you cut corners in the building process. The sad and annoying thing is that people died in the process and still, no one will be prosecuted. The solution is to use common sense and obey the ethics of construction and the laws of the land.

Divorce happens when one spouse decides to take the other for granted and this also happens everyday. Solution is to respect your spouse and treat her nicely.

Money launderers and arms dealers are routinely busted everyday and I believe this particular one is very good for society. The solution is to avoid greed and covetousness.

Men who refuse to bridle their intimate appetite fall into adultery every time. The solution is to stay faithful and focused on your spouse.

So don't mix it. The church isn't being attacked, its just some men's dark secrets catching up with them with some collateral damage.

Over 80 human beings in search of 'miracles' died horrible deaths and all you're bothered about is TBJ? What did he lose? Is his image more important than innocent lives? Where is your humanity? Did TBJ die or did he lose a family member? How about you spare a thought for the dead? How about words of support and encouragement to those who are actually passing through real pains now, that is the relatives of the victims and those injured in the hospital?

Kai!! What is this?

I love culture and tradition but there are some that I won't practice or tolerate no matter how widespread it is. Tribal marks is one of them. No matter how anyone tries to dignify it, its simply harmful mutilation and 'de-handsomisation' or 'de-beautification' of another human being (pardon the lingo) particularly the type being done to the poor child in the picture above.

Makes me remember what I was told about my mum rejecting, fighting and crying against the attempt by the elders of my dad's house who were hellbent on giving me tribal marks as was the practice for first sons of my village. I'll forever be grateful to her for not yielding.

My aunt used a Biro to draw the marks they intended giving me then, the thing no funny when I saw in the mirror what my face would have looked like. Chei!!! I keep thanking God everyday.

kabhohd: Why are u just posting it now. Aftermath of the divorce saga, its so obvious that you are bent on destroying this man's reputation. But know this of course that you can do nothing against the truth but for the truth.

smartoliver: So after many years,u decided to bring up dis story,now dat he is divorced!I don't know d truth...but I smell a rat..one side is definitely not saying the truth...I'm not judging..but I don't believe..GOD HELP US

Actually, the OP didn't open this thread this year. He did it 6 years ago. Check the date on the first post to confirm. Even the Mods indicated 2008 on the front page.

ichuka: Lol.
U no well oooooo.
Its well in Jesus name jare.

I well jare. Na too much anointing dey push me

Its indeed well in Jesus mighty name. Amen

ichuka: Lol,guy how u dey,longest.....
Abi u don join them?

B4 nko? Why should I allow some 'small boys' challenge my authority and the way I run things when I can create a demarcation by claiming mog and reciting "touch not my anointed etc'?

Pls don't force me to open my mouth and release curses on recalcitrant church members o

May God have mercy on his children. Gob bless you plenty jare my brother.

christemmbassey: my erudite oga , i dey hail o!

My bro, I dey hail too abeg. No mind me jare. How are the twins? I go call you tommorow make I hear their voice.

Cheers

Candour is a man of God.

The rest are ordinary Christians. Don't ask me for scriptural validation pls. Remember 'touch not my anointed.......'

SirJohn: Its a free world Bro, no hard feelings...
I had so many things to say at some point last week after you tried unsuccessfully to make me a liar. It was very obvious you were carried away and didn't read my write up objectively, instead you resorted to cherry picking and splitting hairs to make your point but it obviously didn't work.
I was glad when you mentioned that you were at CE Ojo when I wrote that post, I had waited for you to make your calls to verify as you said you would. But then I again I'm wondering how come you didn't know me yourself if you really were in CE Ojo at that time
Yes I was the secretary of Haven 1, I was also a lecturer at the foundation school of CE Ojo (A school I passed through as the best graduating student in my time), I was a cell leader in the Haven and part of the first contact (follow up) team
I have had several off forum conversation over the years with some of your brethren here including Joagbaje, I was hoping we'd relate at that level too. We may not agree on everything but it doesn't make us enemies. For the sake of being gentlemanly, I wont say some of the things I and Joagbaje have discussed off this forum on phone and through emails.
The things I wrote were exactly what I saw, fast-forward six years later, I have not seen any reason to retract my words. The leadership of the ministry had the opportunity to explain but they failed to do so; I had a one on one with Pst. Sola Olubode in his office back then, this was after I had written a letter. I showed him hard evidence and told him all I wanted was an explanation, he was so infuriated to the point of banging on his table and even said I was dabbling into things greater than myself.
I'm sure you know Deacon Demo (I understand he's now a pastor) he is one of the few men that lent an ear and even told me things that I wish not to state here for his sake alone. if and when the situation permits, I will name people you are most likely familiar with so you can verify anything I say.
Its not easy being on my side of the tide you know, I have had my FB and email accounts hacked severally and unsolicited emails and CE correspondence sent to me without request. I have also received strange emails from people claiming to have seen my email address on NL, yet those emails were my very private emails that have not been shared on this forum. I have nothing to fear or hide, if I said anything which is not what I saw then let God be judge.
Thank You!

Hmmm...

SirJohn, you amaze me every time. How do you keep your cool in the face of the attacks your story generate? How do you stay strong and unwavering in your belief about what you saw? I've read countless literature about how Martin Luther stood alone on the truth against the might of the papacy and every ruling house in Europe who felt threatened by the can of worms he exposed and I can say you've probably faced a little of what he went through. I might have been cowed by the enormity of what you've had to face if I was in your shoes (no joke).

Any one who thinks you cooked this story has the chance to call you out on the 'alleged lies' based on this post but of course non of your traducers dare take the gauntlet; they've failed and avoided it for the past six years. I pray God almighty continue to protect you as he has done since the day your story broke. You're the epitome of a cool, calm and collected guy and i pray God gives you more grace to carry on. I hope we'll have an opportunity to meet physically soonest.

I had decided not to post on this thread because I was angry with DrummaBoy for opening you up to probable ridicule and verbal abuse with this thread which of course came in torrents but while your traducers raved and ranted without substance, you remained sane and calm. Why then should I be angry when the recipient of the attacks remained unfazed? The truth truly liberates, sets free and puts mind at rest. You are a proof of this assertion.

God continue to bless and increase you manifold and keep you safe in the palm of his hands.

Billyonaire: Be careful what you asked for.
Wole Soyinka was always a critic and became quiet when IBB offered him a portfolio so he was part of that military junta under IBB junta and escaped during Abacha and went on exile. What did you expect from him ? He returned when his kins man was President and kept silent cos of DNA. Are you pondering what I am pondering ? He became very loud under Yaradua and went on crusade for GEJ expecting a Ministerial appointment, when he got none, he went ballistic on all 2 exhaust pipes without common-sense.
You asked for it, now you got it. You want some more ?

You're wrong sir.

Soyinka, Gani together with Beko kuti were some of the most vociferous antagonists of OBJ's ambition to be U.N sec gen before it went to Ghali the Egyptian and he continued his criticism of his kinsman throughout his 8 year reign.

Also he served as founding chairman of FRSC and for good reason: he started the first road safety club in 1977 so any sensible head of state would have jumped at the possibility of having him bring his knowledge and experience to bear on the nations desire for safer roads.

Do you have any proof that he wanted to be a minister under GEJ? Also, what could have been GEJ's lot if Soyinka and Bakare had pretended to see nothing wrong in the manner Turai and the cabal treated him? Should he have kept quiet then as you wish him to do now?

@OP. Thanks a million times for this piece. Very insightful and thought provoking.

mbaemeka: If you have any experiences in using the name of Jesus to cause a healing to come to someone this would have been settled without much ado.

Can you pls quit the condescending remarks? I don't appreciate it and I believe we have an 'agreement' (maybe unspoken) to maintain some civility in our exchanges?

The scripture didn't say Paul perceived that the man had faith in God or faith to be saved. It said faith to be healed. That's why Paul told him to act it.

@the bolded, you have a record of me saying that? My point has always been about the man NOT making any confession before his faith was perceived by Paul which is exactly what scripture said.

There's no dichotomy as such. Jesus didn't heal people with his faith all the time. Some like the woman with the issue of blood used her faith in Jesus to heal herself. To the ruler of the synagogue the man expressed faith in Jesus and then Jesus healed the girl. The woman with the Issue of blood didn't get healed because she thought of it in her heart. She got healed because she acted on what she believed in her heart.

The summary is "God cannot be put in a box". No man born of a woman can say he has deciphered God or he can decipher God. He's the God that cant be searched out. He can do and has done things with or without the recipients confession, faith or action.

Romans 11:33 KJV
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Nobody can limit God "per se". I say per se because if we step outside the ambit of his word he would do nothing for us. For example, Peter would have drowned while Jesus was looking at and present with him because he acted in doubt.

Peter would never have drowned in that particular situation. Human understanding of God will say Peter should drown "after all he doubted" but God who does things the way he likes overlooked Peter's doubts and saved him.

People get things done for them by God everyday without even knowing his word talk less of stepping outside it. God's sovereignty and infinite wisdom at work.

So I didn't say a dumb man can't get a touch from God except his tongue his loosed. God can do as he pleases but he usually acts in line with his word for he is his word. He told Moses to speak to the rock yet Moses struck it but the water still came out. Then he told Moses he wouldn't get to the promised land for going against his word. That's why we are to follow his word to the letter (and Spirit!). John the Baptist's dad Zechariah was struck dumb by an angel so that he wouldn't use his mouth to distort the miracle of his son's birth. Our speaking is important. I can't stress it enough.

@1st bolded. God and his sovereignty again. You're right He "usually" acts in line with his word but what if he decides to do "unusually"? Who will object? Its also noteworthy that having mercy on whom he will irrespective of the circumstance is also part of his word.

@2nd bolded. If we are to go by the letter of the word, non of us will measure up to. Let's stick to the spirit of it. Its easier that way and is in sync with the grace dispensation.

@the 3rd bolded. Your reason is wrong. The bible gave us the true reason

Luke 1:20 KJV
And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

He became dumb because he didn't believe (clearly a punishment) but even his unbelief could never alter the plan of God.

Hannah spoke but Eli didn't hear what she said. Everyone in scripture who believed spoke the word. Christianity according to church history used to be called "the great confession". Cornelius is one who was right with God but was unsaved.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him

The preceding verses said God already sent an angel to tell Cornelius to send for Peter because God told him he had heard his prayers and seen his good works. This corresponds with verse 35 above. But in Acts 11 Peter says exactly what the Angel told Cornelius:

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Peter had to tell him words by which he was to be saved. Which he wasn't saved but he was already right with God.

Did God give the holy ghost to an unsaved Cornelius? Did the holy ghost fall on an unsaved man?

Her lips moved but her voice was not heard therefore Eli thought she was drunk. Have you seen a drunk person act? They may be mumbling inaudible words. You would know they are saying something but you may not understand it because of how inaudible it was. That's what happened here. Of course, God hears everyone's heart but she spoke out to his hearing alone. She didn't want Eli to know she was asking for a child or making a vow. He was trying to read her lips. Look at verses 11 and 12 of the same chapter:

11 And she vowed a vow, and said, O Lord of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the Lord all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.

12 And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the Lord, that Eli marked her mouth.

Do you think God wouldn't have answered her if her lips didn't move? Despite the fact that he already heard the prayers and petition of her heart?

100%



I agree in this context.

OK.

Gombs: bobo, answer me pop and clear, no vex... he said miracles equal to vanity unpon vanity... using Paul or Peter's miracle exploits, would you termm it as vanity-note, dont be in a hurry to reply, be aware the Holy Spirit wrought miracles through men, even today

Even if you're a teacher, you know I'm not your student?

I've answered you up there already and even gave a reservation about his statement. That should be enough for you so that you don't force me to give you my own yes or no question

Gombs: Goshen, Candour, Drummaboy what sayeth thou? Do you folks agree with the above bold? Am stupendously stupefied...i'm sorely disappointed

Present.

Maybe that statement sounds heavy. I might not put it that way, but really what on this earth isn't going to end in vanity? Can you point to one thing on this earth that isn't vanity after all said and done? How long is your stay on earth compared to eternity?

Is it miracle of house? Job? Money? Spouse? Healing? Who has been healed of any disease or ailment that didn't eventually succumb to the great leveller:death?

Solomon was right you know and every human being will agree with him eventually even if its on their death bed that "vanity of vanity, all is vanity"

mbaemeka: Then you cannot keep one scripture on Believing and speaking away from your purported (purported because it doesn't exist) "only believing".

It might be purported to you but it was very real to Christ.

John 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Believe and you're saved.

Confessing what I believe [in this case Christ] is what I have been talking about. And No it is his faith that enables him tell the world and not his"salvation". Do you feel saved? How so?

Because he's saved, he can now tell the world. That's what my statement there meant.

Even the AMP supports me. It says with the mouth he speaks/declares his faith and CONFIRMS his salvation.

No it doesn't. Its God that validates, certifies and confirms us as believers. When we confess or tell others, we confirm it to the world that we are saved.

The bible says Paul perceived the man had FAITH to be healed. The faith the man had was the one to be healed. It automatically means he already had faith in the gospel that he heard Paul preach a day or time before Paul healed him. That faith in the gospel made him saved.

Paul perceived the man had faith to be healed. The scripture made it very clear the man made no confession of faith concerning it. The belief was in his heart and God honoured it.

Yes a miracle wrought by a person on the person's own situation requires his verbal proclamation or act. In this case Paul was the one who spoke the word on the man while the man responded by acting on Paul's instruction.

Now you're creating a dichotomy. So what about the ruler of the synagogue? Jesus a greater than Paul was the one in charge there so why are you insisting the man had to have verbalised his faith? Could Christ words alone not save him without him speaking it like this lame man?

If a man believes in his heart from now till eternity that God want's him healed from an ailment it would not change the situation. The man would get weaker and weaker and weaker till he may eventually die. But when he speaks out, he has activated his faith and will receive a miracle [or what he speaks out]

Are you trying to limit God? Can you dictate to God how he runs his show? So a dumb man can't get any touch from God except he first gets his tongue loosed first? You think he isn't allowed to get answers to prayers he said in his heart?

If they didn't open their mouths to speak they would have been right with God [for they already were even before Peter came] but they wouldn't have been saved. When they spoke they activated the faith that they had by already believing the gospel that Peter preached. God saw them as right/acceptable but not saved. When they opened their mouths, they were confirmed.

So how does someone get right with God and stay unsaved? You have any examples in scriptures? If Cornelius moved his lips but spoke in his heart like Hannah did without peter and others hearing him, would he not be saved?

Of course, as long as God heard you. God expects us to speak/confess what we believe. The Greek word for confess as used in Romans 10:9-10 is Homologia and it means to say the same things God has said concerning you in agreement with him and not to start saying "Oh God I am a sinner, save me". If God says "If you believe my son died and was raised for your sake you are saved" you ought to say "yes Lord, I believe your son died and was raised for my sake. I know I am saved". That's why I say "I dwell in health etc." Because God has said "By the stripes on his son's body I was healed". If I was healed, then I am healed and will always be in good health. Glorrrrrry!

A saved man will proclaim his salvation. He must be saved before he can proclaim and confess to the world that he's saved.

What happens to the man who can't speak?

Scripture says Hannah's lips moved but Eli didn't hear (actually understand) what she said. It doesn't mean God didn't hear her. And yes I have received miracles without Prayer sometimes. That's why I told Trustman not everything must be lumped into prayer. Some can come by just acting our faith.

God wasn't concerned with Hannah's lips, that was Eli's problem to worry about. God had already heard the words in her heart. See the scripture again

1 Samuel 1:13 KJV
Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.

The bible was very clear. Her speaking was in her heart. Not a word came from her lips, her voice was not heard but God heard the speech in her heart and he answered.

Again this is faith to be healed and it is somewhat different from personal faith because Jesus was to do the healing. The man and his family had faith in Jesus already- they believed all they heard about him. Now Jesus perceives their faith because they broke the roof of his house to bring the man in just so he could heal him. That's an act of faith. They believed and acted like they did.

Do you agree a man that hears or reads the gospel, believes it and falls down on his knees in his room asking God to save him is saved whether anybody was there with him and heard him or not?

Sure, it's an act of faith. Of course, I am not God so I don't know what he will do in such situations as the word didn't expressly state so and I haven't studied the issue that deeply. He can break protocols for dumb people (he is that kind).

@the bolded, Thank God almighty. This is where God is sovereign. He can decide to break protocols for the dumb and can decide to break it for whomsoever he will. There's no searching out of his wisdom, mercy or power.

Romans 9:15-16 KJV
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. [16] So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

That's why God is God.

Cheers

mbaemeka: I am using a phone now and so would not have the time to Isolate your points one after the other.

If it appears to you or anyone that a contradiction might be imminent in scriptures then it is because you or anyone else is isolating the imports of the verses and not lapping them based on precepts which we are told to do.

There's no contradiction if you take the whole into consideration. The "seems" I put there was in italics

Of course, in John 3:16 Jesus said he that believes in me will not perish but have everlasting life. The question that should follow is "How do I believe?". (Caveat: this word in Greek as used here actually means Faith). Jesus and Paul will then say, "you believe with your heart". Then a question that would follow is, "is it possible for someone to believe in his heart and then deny Jesus with his mouth?" And Jesus will say "Yes, that's why I said anyone who denies me in front of men, he will I deny in front of my Father" and if Jesus denies you infront of his father, it means you ain't entering into heaven.

Thus, believing (mental assent) + (declaring/Confessing) = Faith. And that's what Paul said in Romans 10:10.

@the bolded, has anybody said anything about denying Jesus? Pls point it out if I missed it. The act of confessing Christ is a daily affair and isn't what we are talking about here.

When a man is saved, he'll want to tell the world but its not his telling the world that saved him. Its his salvation that enables him tell the world

Concerning the man that was impotent at Lystra. Maybe I need to take a few steps back to explain myself. In Acts 14:7 yes the bible says they had preached the gospel but then it puts a full stop. They didn't stop after that day and he didn't only preach once. How do I know? Because before verse 8 begins many well organised marginal bibles place the (Paragraph sign, written like an inverted P) to show that some period may have passed before the verse 8 happened.

In any case, Paul perceived that the man had faith to be healed. Which means the man had believed the gospel preached about Jesus and his power (through his name) to heal the sick. So when the man had believed that aspect Paul could perceive that the man now had FAITH to be healed. That's why when he told the man to get up the man responded without flinching.

@the bolded, do you know some more modern English bible translations render Rom 10:10 in a different manner than KJV? For instance, see amplified version

Rom 10:10 AMP For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.

Pls don't force the bible to say what you want it to say. The man wasn't called a believer before he got his miracle. He was just another man in the crowd seeking a miracle. In any case, you remember you also said a miracle can't occur without verbal confession?

In the real sense of the word an unsaved man cannot receive the Holy Spirit. But (if you speak in tongues) you will know that the Holy spirit doesn't possess a saved man and cause him to speak in tongues. He will only give you the utterance if you open your mouth to speak. That's what I am saying about Cornelius and his folks. They believed the message Peter preached (so they got right with God) then they opened their mouths to speak and their salvation became consummate. The fact that tongues came out was God's way of showing the Jews that the Gentiles were welcome into his fold. That was God's confirmation to Peter and not the other way around.

@the bolded, is that not what we've been saying since? They were saved which is why the Holy Ghost gave them the utterance. They were saved before they started speaking. Their speaking was God's way of showing Peter and the world that "I've saved these ones already, keep your Jewish hangups in your pocket". It confirmed their salvation to the world, not to God. If God didn't see them as already saved, he wouldn't have released the Holy Spirit to them.

Angels and Demons don't confirm your salvation for God or what not. They can only tell you are saved when you speak. The Philippians 2 says every tongue is to declare/confess that Jesus is Lord-That's salvation.

Of course the demons will hear me speak it everyday but whether they hear or pretend not to, it WILL NEVER EXPUNGE my name from the book of life.

God doesn't confirm salvation in our hearts. Paul said he confirms believing. When we speak he confirms salvation. That's why even though God knows our hearts and thoughts he still told us to pray. Jesus didn't pray in his heart- he always prayed out that's why people could record his prayer points.

Will God refuse to answer me if I don't verbalise my request? See below

1 Samuel 1:13 KJV
Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.

What do you think of Hannah case? Have you ever received a miracle you wished for but never prayed for? I have

In Mark 5:36 and Luke 8:50, those stories had nothing to do with salvation but we could still learn from them. The ruler of the synagogue came to ask Jesus to heal his sick daughter (he believed Jesus could so he acted by asking him to). Jesus was on his way there when people came to tell him not to bother as the girl had just died. Jesus then said to the man "do not be afraid: only believe". The 'believe' as used there had to be exactly what the man had already done in asking Jesus to come heal the girl in the first place. That's what I am talking about: the man expressed his faith by speaking to Jesus to come heal. Now they need more than healing- a resurrection is required. So Jesus tells the man to ONLY do what he had done before which was to "express his belief" that Jesus could do it.

See Jesus forgiving a man and healing him simply because Christ saw the man and his family's faith

Mark 2:5, 10-12 KJV
When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. [10] But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) [11] I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. [12] And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

Where is the confession either in the healing or in the forgiveness of sins for the man above?

What I said about the dumb man is that he must SHOW; ACT; EXPRESS his belief to become SAVED according to biblical accounts. Writing it down was my own addition. Indeed I said he should use as much sign language as possible to declare his faith for faith begins at the heart but ends up being expressed.

Afterall Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth SPEAKS. And Paul said we too having the same Spirit of FAITH believe and therefore we SPEAK.

Can blinking of the eyes also serve to show this confirmation of salvation? What about a thumbs up or nodding of the head? Are we free to substitute any action we like in place of "speaking with the mouth"?

mbaemeka: God (and His word) validates a man's salvation. What does God's word say?

As per Paul the scripture said Paul looking at the man steadfastly and perceiving that he had faith to be healed. The man already had faith in God he was already a christian listening to Paul teach about Jesus.

God validates a man's salvation and the word (Jesus) started the message in John 3:16. If Rom 10:10 seems to contradict it, we need to study more to find out why.

The lame man wasn't a Christian. Pls don't force scripture to say what it didnt say. It was a city that had NEVER heard the gospel. See the scripture

Acts 14:7-8 KJV
And there they preached the gospel. [8] And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:

The man was hearing the gospel for the first time.

A man believes in his heart first, and becomes right but he has to OPEN his mouth to experience salvation. Cornelius and his household believed the message Peter preached and became right but when they OPENED their mouths to speak Peter and co could then tell they were saved.

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Philip could only baptize the Eunuch after he had expressed his belief.

Is salvation required for holy ghost filling or not? Can an unsaved man be filled with the holy ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues?

When they opened their mouths to speak, that is when Peter could confirm they were saved. Speaking in tongues was the bonus.

Was Peter's confirmation needed by God before he could save Cornelius?

It is not only for the benefit of the world; it is for the benefit of Heaven and hell too. Angels and demons have to know where you stand. That's how they could know the 7 sons of Sceva. Demons cannot read minds or see spirits. They observe our words and conduct. That's why WORDS are important- Very.


Philippians 2:10-11King James Version (KJV)

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Does the devil and his demons have any part to play in my salvation? Will God withhold salvation if demons and angels complain they didn't hear me speak?

Believing starts it: after we believe we get right but we must speak out based on what we believe. It is the spoken word that activates it if you please. That's why I made references to when Jesus said "If you believe anything [like Jesus is Lord of my life] in your heart (without doubting) and declare it with your mouth, you will have what you say". You will have the [Jesus is Lord of my life] when you SAY it.


Matthew 12:37King James Version (KJV)
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

What about the times Jesus said "only believe"?

Mark 5:36 KJV
As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

Luke 8:50 KJV
But when Jesus heard it , he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.

Was he wrong? Was he giving an incomplete message?

On a serious note- dumbness is an evil spirit. If you cast it out in the name of Jesus, the person will speak out and be saved. But if one doesn't function on such level. You can make them make as much sign language or even writing the words out so as to confirm it. It is very important.

So if a dumb man doesn't write it out, he can't be saved? Is there any scripture that says writing it out can replace speaking it out?

mbaemeka: You still dont understand me. Assuming they said no word and just listened to the words of Peter and then Peter left, would Luke still say they were Saved? Or would Luke not say they listened to the words and then we left?

Yes. They had the spirit of God which could have made them perceive or discern the man's belief

Acts 14:9-10 KJV
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, [10] Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

If Paul could perceive someone else's faith, Peter or Luke could have too and of course God would have perceived it too. In any case, if Luke had written that they left without mentioning their conversion, the loss would be ours as we wouldn't have heard that testimony, not Cornelius's because who validated their salvation? Peter, Luke or God?

If you ask me when they got saved I will say when Peter heard them speak in tongues and glorify God. If you ask me why I will refer you to Romans 10:9-10.

When they spoke, the world knew they were saved. They were saved before the holy ghost came on them unless you want me to believe the spirit of God filled a sinner who then spoke in tongues and then became saved.

Paul said you only get right with God through your heart but that you get saved through your mouth. What say you?

I'll say the speaking part is for the benefit of the the world to confirm your salvation before the world as a form of witness to them. Jesus Christ, most times would say "only believe".

Do you think Rom 10:10 at variance with the below?

John 3:16, 18 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; [2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. [3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

How will the dumb get saved?

mbaemeka: You don't understand me. While preaching the gospel, Luke said the Holy Spirit fell on them and then they spoke in tongues and magnified God. I agree.

What I am asking Luke is how did he know the Holy Spirit fell on them? Wasn't it because of what he heard them SPEAK?

They heard them speaking in tongues glorifying God so of course that enabled them to know God had done it again.

The question is, when did this salvation happen? Do you agree they were saved before they started glorifying God or you believe they became saved only after the holy ghost came on them and enabled them to speak and glorify God?

At which point did they get saved? Before or after they spoke in tongues? Or during their speaking in tongues?

mbaemeka: That's easy, How did the Jews know that Cornelius and his household were saved? How did they know the Holy Spirit had fallen on them?

Did they see the spirit enter or did they hear them SPEAK?

With the heart a man's believes and becomes righteous BUT with the mouth he confesses his belief and becomes saved. Romans 10:9-10

Dont put the cart before the horse. See this sequence

Peter preached-Cornelius believed-God sent Holy Ghost-Cornelius spoke in tongues glorifying God

What saved Cornelius? The words he spoke AFTER the Holy Ghost came on him? When did he confess his belief in God for salvation through Christ?

Gombs: cool story.

Really?? Won't put it past her to be embellishing.

Wonderful memories of JOStified folks.... Candour, make we glorify God abeg, na good thing say folks admit the power in the Name of Jesus healed them...and quit witch hunting Jo, I'm sure when you meet him, you would be stunned...and that's me putting it mildly, if u dey lagos, He'd be there for IPPC by November, so would I

I'm not witchunting him (I fit?), I consider him an egbon but honestly speaking the me me me and I I I stories when it comes to miracles should reduce. Jesus did it, end of story. Check out all the messages Paul delivered in acts of the apostles, how many did he start with tales of the people he healed? Let those who are healed publicise it. That's what Christ and the apostles did.

I might be in lag then. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Cheers

mbaemeka: For with the heart a man believes unto righteousness BUT with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

You're the Shakespearean, you should tell me. What does the word 'but' in English signify?

Acts 10:44-48 KJV
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

While Peter was still speaking. While the Jews who came to preach to Cornelius didn't know what was going on in his mind about the message he was hearing, God broke protocol by sending the holy ghost on him and his household before Mr evangelist was through. Cornelius and his people were saved.

How will you explain this particular incident?

Gombs: Even a blind man can see jo glorifying God here, neither did my post,but ur polluted mind sees differently..

U said he's self professed? Hehhehehhehe u are funny! Very very! Stop acting like a half wit, ask for videos or simplybdrive to visit him.... I have, and verified em cases, fibroid, hiv, madness, barrenness, and yeah, the dead back to life. He doesn’t need your validation, I do not see why he would want u guys to validate him!

One day, I hope, u would understand...oya, make we no quarrel, this is not tithing, follow us praise God for the power of His Spirit

Really?? I thought you're intelligent? Videos? Hmm. I met one CEC media staff at a conference once and the way she spoke so glowingly of your media arm, I doubt there's any photo and film trick Hollywood invents that you won't be able to mimic. My friend, leave all those una videos. This is the last place you should bring such as 'proof' for anything except your dexterity at altering reality.

He doesn't need validation and yet he opens countless threads to tell NL he heals? Your man is dangerously narcissistic. He needs public acclaim like air. You should help him instead of encouraging him on.

As for quarell, whenever I remember you also played football at St Murumba field, even if I dey vex, I go just chill. So we won't quarell. I've pointed out what I wanted with the tithe reference and I trust you got the message.