₦airaland Forum

frosbel: Just to weigh in here for hopefully the last time, and I mean hopefully .

GOD has commandments made for the Moral preservation and upliftment of MAN.

As Goshen agreed to recently , these commandments are summed up as follows :

"36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” - Matthew 22:36-40


Goshen has stated this quite clearly , and while I do not agree with him on a number of issues, I think it is almost slander to try to distort the meaning of what someone has said.

I have noticed impatience and rashness from many of us, who rather than read an article carefully and patiently, pick one or 2 lines and rush to judgement.

I personally do not believe that Goshen is teaching anyone to SIN , and if he ever did , that will be the day we part ways.

Please stop this dishonesty and misrepresenting his position, it is almost malicious.

Finally, if you are a Christian and still practicing SIN , you need to be honest with yourself and assess whether you are a truly a Christian or have probably lost your first love.

Nothing that has the taint, stain or pollution of SIN can ever be admitted into the presence of GOD , but the good news is that if we repent , Jesus will cleanse us and give us a new lease of life.

Do not be deceived, " The Soul that SINs shall DIE "

i fully concur with this

All Christians are actually SAVED by Grace

Ihedinobi: Have read it. I'm not sure what you want me to say.

Not moving forward is the waterloo of the Christian, but going back is impossible to him. If one does not take all the opportunity the Lord throws one's way to advance in Christ, in time, one suffers a tremendous loss that cannot be fully described on this side of the divide but it will not include his soul.

Could the bolded be what is meant by this verse

Eph 1:13
''In whom ye also trusted,after that ye heard the word of truth,the gospel of your salvation:in whom also after that ye believed,ye were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise''

Are we then sealed just as Noah and his family were sealed in the ark by God until He deemed it necessary to open the ark after the flood?

Mark that we still go back to Romans 6:1-2
''What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin,that grace may abound? God forbid........''

I feel this idea might give license to some to engage in ungodly behavior but i have to remind myself it's not about my feelings but it's all about what God is saying through the scriptures.

i've learnt plenty from the write up already anyway.God bless

JeSoul: ... people have served God without the aid of 'scriptures' and were declared justified in God's sight. We today just like complicating things...... What is the thread title again? Modesty! in everything! amen ........may you all look in the mirror & not forget what you see. Amen

If only we Christians will take hold of the substance and leave the celebration of the shadows.more power and grace to you sister Jesoul
in Jesus name
@Alwaystrue.prayers no dey too much jare my sister.God bless you again

wow!! that was so uplifting and edifying

your write ups above are wonderful brother.May God almighty bless you richly and increase you in the knowledge of him.

It's all about Christ really...nothing about religion

It's always a thing of joy when i see Christians questioning traditions we were born into and accept as part of doctrine when it's in reality not.As someone earlier pointed out,Jesus was a guest at the wedding in cana not an officiating priest or pastor.

Christianity doesn't change the colour of our skins and surely our culture still makes us africans so traditional marriage remains the important thing.Church wedding/reception is mere declaration of surplus money and to show class and gain bragging rights.

Some believe anyway that they need to do church wedding to ward off evil machinations.I guess you cant deny they have the right to but it's not a Christian requirement.

In my own case,i had already convinced my wife and mum in law to skip church wedding based on my dad in law's recommendations only for my own mum to throw spanner in the works insisting that she had to have a big celebration.That is when i knew my sweet wife just 'agreed' to my plans for peace sake.see how overjoyed she was at the church wedding and reception

If you have plenty to spend,do it but IT IS NOT BINDING ON A CHRISTIAN.Registry is more important as a law abiding citizen.

@ayemko,sorry about whatever bad experience you had bro.it's well

[quote author=Bo-large]CANDOUR,

IN YOUR CHURCH THAT YOU ARE ATTENDING, HOW MANY ARE REALY SERVING GOD IN FAITH AND IN TRUTH, CAN YOU BEAT YOUR CHEST THAT ALL MEMBERS OF YOUR CHURCH ARE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS?

IT IS YOUR OWN MIND THAT YOU KNOW, YOU DONT KNOW OF OTHERS. DO YOU KNOW HOW DEEP THE MAN'S STORY YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HAS GONE IN THE SPIRITUAL THINGS THAT GOT HIM BLINDED?

DO YOU KNOW IF THE MAN AS REFUSED TO CONFESS THE DEEP SECREAT EVIL THINGS IN HAS COMMITTED ALONG TIME AGO THAT MADE IT'S CASE WORSEN?

THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW IS THAT HE WENT BLIND AND BACK BACK BLINDED.

WHY NOT GEORGE YOUR CASE BASED ON THE SUCCESSFUL ONES THAT WENT DELIVERED AND ARE HAPPY WITH LIFE TODAY.

AS FOR ME O, MY LIFE HAS CHANGE FOR BETTER AND 5 OF MY FRIENDS ALSO OBEYED MY ADVISED THEY HAVE GONE AND CAME BACK WITH GOOD NEWS. WE ARE RICH OIL BUSINESS MEN IN WARRI TODAY AND OUR ANOINTING STICKERS ARE PASTED AT THE BACK OF OUR JEEP.

"MY FRIEND JOIN THE VICTORIOUS ONES AND DONT LIVE BY THE FAILURES"

EMMANUEL![/quote]i wish you well with your prophet since he holds the key to you and your friends wellbeing in life.

Dont worry about me friend,i'm already victorious in life through Christ

Alwaystrue: Haba @Candour I don apologise na. Oya sorry no vex o.

Taou, @Ihenodobi you don hear the OP. Amen, may we receive and enjoy the grace.

don't mind me jare.i'm guilty of hasty conclusions.I didn't see your quote @ the end of your post until after i clicked submit.

God will surely answer your innermost prayers and desires in Jesus name.Amen

Ihedinobi: STUFF AND NONSENSE! In other words, you need to define terms and clarify meanings lost over the centuries for the Scriptures to say that sexx is ok for the unmarried.

I'm not JeSoul so I'm not of the same gentle spirit as she is and am not a mod so I am not obliged to be diplomatic. And definitely not when it's dangerous to the Cross of Christ.

The reason this devilish teaching of yours has any kind of power rightnow is that Goshen360 went and fell for it. It is because of the influence he pulls across this forum that I even bothered to give him this platform to clear things up. Or else I really wouldn't have bothered. After all, it was months back that I flagged you particularly as a danger to the Gospel and therefore made a sort of rule never to bother to engage you unless in the event of a situation such as this.

As your post proves, the Scriptures say nothing like what you suggest unless (and even when) we assume the crazy mindset that sexx is ok before marriage.

On the other hand, ah, Scripture is rife with all manner of commendation for the sexxual association of a husband and wife. There is

Drink water from your own cistern,
    running water from your own well.
16 Should your springs overflow in the streets,
    your streams of water in the public squares?
17 Let them be yours alone,
    never to be shared with strangers.
18 May your fountain be blessed,
    and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—
    may her breasts satisfy you always,
    may you ever be intoxicated with her love.

of Proverbs 5 and

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

of Hebrews 13:4 as well as

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

However, it matters nothing whether I give one or one hundred witnesses to hardhearted reprobates like yourself, you will always discount them and corrupt them. It is not at all for your benefit that I produce these witnesses but for those who may be fooled by you.

To deny their power all you have to do is to consign them to the Law and I intend to fully deal with you on that very soon. For now, suffice it to say that even though the Law could not make man holy, itself was holy and its job was to ready man for Christ and the work of the Cross.

When Jesus came, He satisfied all the Law's demands and went beyond that to satisfy its spirit as well. His Death on the Cross put an end to the Law in the sense that all those who receive His Life which was released upon the event of His Death and Resurrection receive His merits and have with and in Him satisfied the demands and the spirit of the Law.

Outside of the Lord Christ, the Law still slays. If any Christian should break with the Spirit of Christ in any matter, he will come under the power of the law and be slain by it. Only as we live in the Spirit of Christ, loving one another and loving God, which fruit of this love includes self-control, can we be free of the law.

The New Law is Christ within. And He never contradicts Moses. Rather, He gives Moses life and makes him the believer's ally rather than adversary.

Your teaching is not suspect, @okeyxyz, and it is not a little dangerous. It is overtly antagonistic to the Cross of Christ. And as far as I'm concerned, you don't belong among those saved by that Cross. I have sought for signs that you do for months and you are a hopeless confusion. If you do not sort yourself out with the Lord, the end that awaits you will utterly destroy you.

@the bolded is the reason i decided to contribute.I too had decided after the last thread where we trashed this that i wasn't going to give his ideas my time.The guy is an advocate of sexual lawlessness of the most profane kind.I cannot in all honesty call him my christian brother

@Alwaystrue

my sister is derailing the thread o

Ihedinobi: @Alwaystrue

I guess, in the light of the intensity of the debates y'all have been having, it wasn't right for Image123 to make that joke or for me to laugh at it.

But you see, you guys are costing me some nice fun with your battles. Why in the world do you have to fight over things like tithing?

Anyway, I do get it. But I still hate the fact that one can't help but feel that there are camps and one has to be in one and not others.

One thing alone matters and it is the Cross of Christ. Are we sharing in that, in His Death and Resurrection? If we are, in due time, as we follow faithfully, we will be taught clearly all that we need to know.

Now, I'm sure that the fights won't vanish as soon as I post this, but it would be nice if elsewhere I can see a joke poking interesting fun at a brother and laugh at it without fear of causing offence.

By the way, @Alwaystrue, I read up some of your posts on the tithing issue and they made a great deal of sense to me. I wonder though if you know that what some of our brethren are really fighting, mostly unwittingly, is the abuse of offerings of every sort. Paul warned Timothy that the bishop must not be a lover of filthy lucre. How many of those who have the rule over us are bothering to stay above filthy lucre?

There is such a thing as feeding fat upon the sheep. And it should worry every Christian as they come of age. Jesus called His pastors or shepherds to feed and tend His flock not slaughter and feast upon them. So as we come of age, we ought to denounce every effort to destroy our brethren.

But as you have said and in agreement with Scriptures, those who labor spiritually for the others are entitled to material benefits from them and I agree that the tithe is one of those benefits. However, a wise pastor living in our days will see to it that none of the sheep in his care is left in poverty while he revels in rich things. Paul and Barnabas were told to remember the poor when they were sent forth and they did.


@op, abeg forgive me o for derailing your thread. I just had to say what I said.

I love this piece my brother.may God increase your wisdom.you're not derailing the thread at all

Image123: I need STRONGS please, let's put that word in its context.

@Image123

I'm not really a fan of STRONG's.you and i have had discussions in time past:go through them again,i never reference STRONG.Not because i hate it or believe it's unhelpful but any good bible translation will not take away from the universal truth of the bible if only we stop cherry picking verses.

I like the idea of the simplicity of the early Christians.they didn't need all the fanciful equipments,speech or extravagant attitude we display today in the name of worshiping God.They worshiped him in spirit and in truth.we need to go back to the cradle if we want to have the profound effect they did.

I believe you were only trying to poke fun @ me.For you to know i'm not pissed,i'll laugh @ it

Also i'm not a partisan person at least not on this forum.I only found brethren with whom i share plenty similar ideas about the bible and have even had to disagree with on some issues.

I always say we can disagree without being disagreeable.I'm sure if Christ or Paul were here,they would advice the same.

@Jesoul, No problem my sister.we have to disinfect this site of hate,abuse and acrimony among believers.i'll continue as u requested.God bless you

@Frosbel,my brother,don't worry.i believe Image123 was trying to catch fun.i wont begrudge him the right.God bless you

@Ihedinobi, you're welcome bro.God bless you

@Alwaystrue,you're a wonderful sister.God bless you

@image123, oya contribute to the topic

[quote author=Bo-large]HAVE YOU NOT BEEN WATCHING EMMANUEL TV?

START MAKING PREPARATIONS NOW TO GO TO SCOAN FOR DELIVERANCE AND ALL WILL BE WELL WITH U AND FAMILY.

PROPHET T.B JOSHUA WITH HIS 5 WISE MEN ARE ANOINTED FOR THIS PURPOSE AND SO MANY LIVES HAD BEEN SAVED.

GO TO: WWW.EMMANUEL.TV FOR MORE DETAILS.

PROPHET T.B JOSHUA IS WAITING FOR YOU AND MADAM.[/quote]my elderly colleague went half blind to SCOAN,he came back fully blind.He was eventually retired by the company late last year because of this condition.i was assigned to take over his space and i had to evacuate plenty anointing bottles etc.

Stop this glorification of a man.he's NOT God

musKeeto: @str and @candour:

It lightens my heart to see such wonderful post from professed believers. What we have today is Christianity mixing with long held superstitions carried over from our previous religious beliefs. I hope more of you will begin to speak out. I do not believe God is real, but I do know that the negative effects of superstitions can be real and prove very dangerous over time. I have a friend who lost his mom last year; the lady collapsed and she was rushed to the church for prayers, funny thing is they prob went past a hospital on their way to the church. Needless to say, the Good Lord received her soul..

@musKeeto

It's sad actually but i can hardly blame people because i was under this same set of thoughts from the moment i was born.Looking back with hindsight now i can safely conclude that the dear brother i mentioned in my post died of a liver problem because it was the exact same symptoms a relative of mine exhibited and she was flown to the UK for surgery in 2007.If only he had access to quality healthcare maybe the story would been different.

I read a lot of your posts and i appreciate your cultured manner of delivery devoid of insults.Dont worry,i'm praying for God to rearrest you. i tell you it will be soon

God bless you my friend

Alwaystrue: This is a great message and it has edified me more.
Thanks OP.

you're welcome dear sister.God bless you real good

striktlymi: Good morning Newl,

It is very easy to blame others for our woes and try very much to avoid blame. Why do you believe that you are not the cause of your problem? The first step to solving any ish we might have is admit to our fault when it is glaring.

I have no doubts that this lady did not go to the office with you. Don't you think that your loss of job is probably due to an error on your part? Or may be it is as a result of the downturn the banking sector went through in the recent past? Or do you think your wife is responsible for the ish with the Nigerian banking system?

A number of factors can affect your business, all of which may have nothing to do with your wife. It's possible that you made some bad business decisions or that your business lacks innovation and drive. Stop seeking out so called MoG who are bent on bringing discord to your young family and probably milk you dry of whatever resources you have left.

#Be a man and take charge of your family and your life.


Thank you!

God bless you for your post.

Thats how i laboured in prayers and fastings trying to kill all 'powers of my fathers house' who i was told were behind my supposed woes.All this time my younger brother who was an unrepentant socialite was making waves in his finances,career etc and if not that we are almost perfect lookalikes,i might have questioned my parents about my parentage.Even my closest colleague,a muslim from a polygamous home was not half afraid of everything as i was even as he slept with anything in skirt he saw.

8 days into 70 days prayer and fasting programme of MFM some years back(i was there for 10 years),i decided enough is enough.The head of prayer warriors of our regional headquarters had just died of a 'spiritual attack' and i wondered how i could hope to defeat these powers if this wonderful brother couldn't.If the powers want to kill me,i screamed out loud that night to myself,they could go ahead.i told myself ''if any man be in Christ,he's a new creature old things are passed away behold all things are become new'' 2 Cor 5:17.That day i lost fear of everything,i mean everything.Till today,i can't remember having any strange dream or nightmare.maybe i still do but they mean nothing to me so i don't remember them.3 months later,i got my dream Job in the oil industry after labouring for 8 years in a bank and i'm only climbing higher everyday.

@newloaded

Life is full of ups and down and if you don't lose hope,you will come out strong.You are even lucky than most people who married 'angel Gabriella' since you said your wife still has her good job and you're not destitute.Pray with her and seek advice on how to revive your business.Don't let some people destroy your home.If you unrepentantly believe she's a witch,don't pass her through the trauma of staying with you.Let her go quickly so you both can rearrange your lives.

may God lead you aright

Romans 14:16
''Let not then your good be evil spoken of:''

Romans 14:19
''Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace,and things wherewith one may edify another''

in line with the above scriptures,my belief on this issue as i said in the other thread is that if a brother and a sister have decided to marry,why not go ahead to the registry and settle it?in the eyes of the law of the land,you only need 2 witnesses and Jesus said ''render to Caesar what is Ceasar's......''

The bible is so clear on this that we do not need STRONG to tell us.Even if you believe you're at liberty,see what Paul said about liberty

1 Cor 8:9
''But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak''

1 Cor 10:23
''All things are lawful for me,but all things are not expedient:all things are lawful for me,but all things edify not''

What will it cost a spirit filled Christian to ''hold body'' and get to a registry to concretize the union before indulging his flesh? The example of a marooned brother and sister was raised.My reply to that is must we go to that extreme to prove this point?how many of us have been marooned on an island before? when we bring up arguments like this,we are no different from lawyers and Pharisees who try to find loopholes to exploit in the law.Why not wait until you are forgotten on an island with your 'intended' before worrying about it?

According to this theory of 'intention to marry',all i need do is convince sister comfort to marry me today,sleep with her and then do same to sister rose next week then sister agatha follows too.

STRONG'S CONCORDANCE is good but it will not replace the bible.My grand mother doesn't speak english,does it mean she's doomed to biblical illiteracy since STRONG has not been translated in my language?

Please for the unmarried among us,if you've seen your mate,just go ahead and legalise it.you dont need to provide rice and drinks for anybody.Go to the registry and settle it.The problem is our modern Christianity that assumes you can't marry until you wear a white gown and suit then stand before a MOG in a fanciful church.You can do it @ home or the court premises.

If you say this to my pagan grand uncle in the village,you'll be very repulsive in his sight and i wonder how the gospel will be preached to him then.

May God help us in our quest for a sweeter and more fulfilling walk with him

alexleo: Now this is what is killing christianity. So called men of God are so money conscious more than us who are doing our secular jobs and businesses. OP, yes obedience is better than sacrifice so does it mean that if your pastor ask you to commit fornication so as to get a job you will also obey? Where did the bible say that a pastor should command his congregation to give all the money in their pocket? Dont be deceived my dear.
A friend of mine invited me to their church for a thanksgiving service sometime this year, after singing and praying in thanksgiving to God for what he has done, Bishop declared offering time, i went and gave my offering. As the service was going on, more offering times came up for about 4 times, I DIDN'T LEAVE MY SEAT TO GO GIVE ANY OFFERING AGAIN. Another friend that went with us asked me why, i told him that am done with offering, and he was like- you mean everybody will leave his seat to go give offering and you ll remain here? I said yes. And bros, I KEPT TO WHAT I SAID TILL THEY FINISHED ALL THE OFFERING TIMES. Now, by the time the Bishop called for the last offering, one of the members behind just muttered some words that- money don finish o. I turned back to look at him and he kept on saying it and searching his pocket. I just pitied the ignorance of Nigerian Christians at that point.
Another thing was that when the man was preaching if comes to your row, people in that row will either kneel down or bend their head in reverence to him until he leaves that area. My dear when he came to our own row, I DIDN'T BEND MY HEAD IN REVERENCE AND I NEVER KNELT DOWN. Some of my friends knelt down before the man except me and the one seating beside me(who took courage from me). And you know what? I was looking the preacher straight in eyes, at a point he came and stood in front of me directly, i was still looking at his eyes, and for whatever reason he stayed so long in that our row more than other rows. By the time he brought out some anointed powdered milk and honey put in small satchet which he said was for protection, healing and prosperity and wanted to share it, i stood up and left. When i told other friends that am leaving they said it will look somehow and i said let it look and left. What am saying is, dont be deceived into doing what you know is wrong because pastor said. A LOT OF CHRISTIANS ARE "PASTOR-SAID" CHRISTIANS AND THIS IS DANGEROUS FOR ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO MAKE HEAVEN. THE HOLY SPIRIT REMAINS OUR FAITHFUL GUIDE.

Christians who wish to be free will surely become free because the truth that sets free is on their shelves @ home.If only they'll open up and study.

your boldness is commendable bro .weldone sir

Pastor Olu T:You spoken well bro, God bless you real good.

stay blessed and remain rapturable

Thanks a lot brother.I believe our lifestyle and comportment can actually draw more people to the gospel of Christ than any powerful sermon we can hope to deliver.

Christ said ''let your light so shine before men......'' Matt 5:16

Apostle Paul said ''That ye may be blameless and harmless,the sons of God,without rebuke,in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation,.......'' Phil 2:15

Apostle Peter also said ''having your conversation(manner of living) honest among the gentiles.......'' 1 Peter 2:12

I pray everyday that we imbibe these lessons as there's no other way to glorify our Lord

Modesty - Marks Of A True Christian

Paul wrote the Philippians, "Let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ" (Phil. 1:27). The most impressive part of our Christian profession is the way we live the gospel in our daily lives. The world is neither blind nor stupid. A few hours of observation will reveal whether we are truly Christ-like or just pretenders. One virtue that God expects of us, and the world quickly discerns, is modesty. Paul wrote that Christian women should "adorn themselves in modest apparel..." (I Tim. 2:9). Webster defines modest as follows, "placing a moderate estimate on one's abilities or worth, observing the proprieties of dress and worth, unpretentious." Modesty is defined as, "freedom from conceit or vanity, propriety in dress, speech or conduct." Thus we see that modesty is expressed in many areas of life.

1.Christians should be modest in the apparel they wear in public. Modest apparel is not sexually suggestive or provocative, nor is it extravagant. Clothes were given to cover our unclothedness (Ex. 28:42), not to invite lustful eyes to indulge themselves. Sinners of the world have no sense of shame when they expose themselves before others. Let that not be true of God's people. Paul's exhortation to modesty in I Tim 2 includes avoiding excessively lavish adornment, which is not becoming to those professing godliness (vs.10).

2.We must be modest in speech. This means not given to exaggeration, boisterousness and free from filthy talk and swearing. (Eph. 4:29; 5:4).

3.We must be modest in the used of our wealth. We are not to lay up our treasure on this earth but in heaven (Matt. 6:19-20). We must not use our possessions to make some vain social statement or to intimidate and shame those not so fortunate. God gives us wealth not only for our selves but so that we can help those in need (Eph. 4:28) and support the good works of His kingdom (I Tim 6:17-18).

4.We must be modest in our general conduct. Paul says, "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God" (I Cor. 10:31). A Christian's conduct should always be within the bounds of propriety, not outlandish and shameless. Paul describes our life style as one of tranquility, quietness and gravity (I Tim. 2:2). We can enjoy things that are recreational, pleasant and joyful...but not outrageous. A good definition of the modest lifestyle of the Christian is seen in Phil. 4:8, ‘Whatsoever things are true, honorable, just, pure, lovely of good report...if there be any virtue and if there be any praise, think on these things.

5.Especially should we Christians be modest in our behavior with those of the opposite sex. Our society is obsessed and awash in things that promote illicit sexual activity. Television, movies, magazines, advertising, music, entertainment all flourish by exploiting and promoting conduct, which is immodest and immoral. Of course Satan is the instigator behind all of this erosion of moral and social values. We Christians are not immune to this solicitation to sin. We must therefore ever be on guard lest we fall victim to his foil (Matt. 5:27-28).


The meaning of "modesty" for the Christian is summed up in the words of our hymn: "Let the Beauty of Jesus Be Seen in Me."

When your neighbor sees you, can he or she see that holy beauty?

Saw this @ www.firstcenturychristian.com

you might want to check it out

God bless you plenty

You need to read FOXE'S BOOK OF MARTYRS if you want to have the full picture of what Christians went through to get the gospel to you and i today.

It's bound to make you sober and re-evaluate the charade we flaunt today in the name of Christ.

You can read up or download free of charge on the net.

just google 'foxe's book of martyrs'

God bless you

Image123: All Scripture is inspired by God and useful for the Christian to teach and instruct. All that is needed is a balanced teaching, many Christians know that giving tithe does not buy them eternal life or turn them righteous.

Dont generalise.you might know but we have more Christians that do not know.This thread even confirms it with all the threats on non tithers.Name one pastor that says what you said below

In the new covenant, Christ is our righteousness whether you do or don't do. Hence, nothing hardly appears compulsory in the new covenant, not tithes, not prayer, not fasting, church attendance, giving, evangelism.

i can bet even your pastor has never said that on his pulpit before.

Let us sound the truth far and near that a Christian is not under whatever curse pronounced in Mal 3:8-10.Let us get God's children free of guilt inspired Christianity.

Image123: WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO A NON TITHER? That's a broad question and kinda a trap because you're pushing for condemnation where there was none. What will happen to a prayerless Christian, what will happen to a stingy believer, what will happen to a person who doesn't read the Bible. All these works are good and are encouraged for every Christian but are not a means to righteousness. In the new covenant, Christ is our righteousness whether you do or don't do. Hence, nothing hardly appears compulsory in the new covenant, not tithes, not prayer, not fasting, church attendance, giving, evangelism.

i like your reply Image.have you ever quoted Mal 3:8-10 to convince someone to tithe? Do you think it's right to threaten a believer whose righteousness is Christ with devourers? Consider the bolded in your reply

Bidam: @candour..you lack a good sense of humour...if you will bring up what i quoted humorously and take it seriously

Thank God you confirmed it.i'd always suspected you were joking all along.
So which ones are the serious posts then?

meanwhile,you didn't treat the other aspects of my reply

cheers

Bidam: Did anyone say in this thread Christians that don't tithe are cursed?

you said so in the following instances between Feb 25th and Feb 27th on this same thread

Bidam: tithe-robber, i still dey search scriptures..pay your tithes o..don't let the devil rob you of your destiny.

you threatened non tithers with Malachi again

Bidam: "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings" (Mal. 3:.

you called it a sin here

Bidam: "Come now, and let us REASON together" says the Lord,"though your sins(in neglecting to pay tithes to me) are as scarlet, they will be white as snow(I am ready to forgive you if you repent), though they are red like crimson. They will be like wool.(isaiah1:.
We REASON together with God on the PLATFORM OF HIS WORD....since levi payed tithes in Abraham and the scriptures cannot be broken(John 10:35). We pay tithes to Jesus(the High priest in order of melchizedek) who was before Abraham(john 8:58). Abraham's tithing was a COPY/SHADOW.Abraham's obedience to offer Isaac as a sacrifice was also a COPY/SHADOW. Jesus offered himself(Original). We are in Christ and we are to offer ourselves as LIVING SACRIFICE unto God(ORIGINAL). which is our REASONABLE service(rom 12:1).
Another scripture about reasoning(read 1 thess5:21)..ayam not misinterpreting the scriptures bro...am just telling you what the Holy Ghost taught me comparing scriptures with scriptures..stay blessed.

bro,you dont think tithe is freewill o.If you did you wouldn't have said all you said up there.If you dispute it then for the records, answer this loud and clear here:WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO A NON TITHER? is it a sin? are they under a curse for 'robbing' God?

tenets of good human behavior my foot.. a tiv man feels by giving a visitor his wife for entertainment is also a tenet of good human behavior..Islam encourage marriage of wives and prilgrimage as also a tenet...don't make comparison pls..focus on the bible.

a TIV man will not find what you said up there funny o.pls don't say what you CANNOT prove with facts.

Agreed we are all blessed BUT NOT ALL HAVE EXPERIENCED THE REALITY OF THE BLESSINGS DO YOU AGREE?

The question is are you as blessed as much as you scream it here? The onus is on you to show us the tithe principle is working stupendously in your life and in the life of other tithers as well.Our belief is that God blesses hardwork which is why Bill gates still remains stupendously rich despite his atheism.Warren Buffet is crazily rich and super healthy @ 85 despite his agnosticism.Dangote is richest african on the planet despite his profession of islam.

Image123: perhaps you should focus on the beam in your eye, while at that, it'll be interesting to see you present where i used abusive language or condescending comments, thanks.

No problem.i'll work on the beam.on the abusive and condescending language issue,it was an advice on the spirit of the ongoing discussion not an accusation.

Bidam: like i said you keep on mixing what Christ said to the pharisee..It was the penalty of the law that Christ came to abolish NOT the entirety Of the law..joagbaje raised a qweshion when he said to honor your father and mother so your days may be long is also part of the old convenant..does it mean it was abolished? NO.It is still relevant in this present day and age as a spiritual principle, like wise marriage, welfare of widows, government etc.This is actually the intepretation of what Jesus said in matt 23.Jesus heaps criticism upon these religious leaders for (1) denying the kingdom of God to others because of their burdensome rules and regulations while professing that they will enter God’s kingdom when in fact, they would not; (2) stealing from the poor while making a great spectacle of themselves by offering long prayers in public; (3) going to great lengths to convert someone to their beliefs only to make them as bad as they were; (4) observing the smallest matters of the law while ignoring the more important ones, i.e. following the letter of the law while ignoring the intent of the law; (5) professing to be the spiritual guides, shepherds or leaders of their time and yet failing to do so; (6) failing to recognize their own spiritual blindness; and, (7) making sure that they were outwardly righteous and presentable while being inwardly filthy to the point that they were dead spiritually.

The Pharisees of that time were primarily interested in position, power and authority. They were not concerned with their relationship with God. In fact, they had deluded themselves to the point that they actually believed that they were the only ones right with God. However, as Jesus taught, righteousness was not attained through works but rather through humility and repentance.

@the 1st bolded,since it's penalty Christ came to abolish not the law,that means the PENALTY of devourer in Mal 3:8-10 that pastors use to threaten people is IRRELEVANT i guess? you think otherwise?

@the 2nd bolded,even a HINDI,BHUDDIST or an ATHEIST without reading the bible knows he should honour his father and mother.These are tenets of good human behavior written on our conscience.The attribute that brings them out is LOVE.It is not a legalistic love which you measure.you honour your parents not because of a law but because you love them and want them happy.

Matt 23:1-3 is very unambiguous about what Jesus meant.They should keep ALL the laws the scribes and pharisees tell them because they were still under law as Jesus had not gone to the cross.Immediately he said it's FINISHED on the cross,the law was set aside as it was truly fulfilled and finished.

I get wary when i hear of spiritual principles because it is only subject to the whims and caprices of the proponent.what if the Celestial church man tells you it's against spiritual principles not to wear white garment to the holy house of God? you know they'll quote Ezekiel and Revelation to justify it.

Romans 8:32
''He that spared not his own Son,but delivered him up for us all,how shall he not with him also FREELY give us ALL things?''

Under the new testament in the blood of Christ,i'm entitled to all blessings freely.

My brother,i think we've started going round in circles.The aim of discussing is not to win an argument but to open ourselves to scriptures that hitherto we hadn't seen before and evaluate truth we'd not known before.i believe we've succeeded in this regard.Wish you the peace of God.

If there is anything you feel we left out,maybe you could let me know

cheers

InesQor: There is a large difference between making a living off charity, and inappropriate use of public funds.

Many cases observed in churches are the latter.

As long as it is public charity funds especially since it is not taxed, it is meant to be used MINIMALLY for personal things.

correct word.Needy people in church are given some mudu of rice each from church funds in the name of catering for saints.Pastor acquires a prado jeep from church collections too also in the name of catering for God's people,how do they match?

the ostentatious lifestyle of pastors cannot be justified using the bible

awodman: Saying they have moles is a security strategy to create distrust among the boko haram camp..they may or may not be moles..but what this has done is to make the boko boys to start suspecting themselves which might lead to in-fighting and will give the jtf oppurtunity to penetrate further into their ranks ..*my thoughts though*

my thoughts exactly.It's an aspect of psychological warfare and its meant to throw the leadership of BH into panic mode.

Bidam: are you asking me?..or rather ask yourselves why aRE YOU NOT HONORING GOD WITH YOUR SUBSTANCE? and the scripture you quoted is specifically talking about the HYPOCRISY of the pharisee. Jesus never said the tithing they did was wrong. Their problem was doing things to be seen of men and lording it over men.

@the bolded.WRONG answer.He asked them to keep ALL the law the pharisees ask them to observe.The Pharisees only kept the part that was convenient for them that why he said ''they say and do not'' read the verse again

Matt 23:1-3
''then spake Jesus to the multitude,and to his disciples,Saying,The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat:All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe,that observe and do:but do not ye after their works:for they say,and do not''

Yes i ask because you and i agreed that tithe was part of the law.i told you i'm no longer under the law,you quoted Matt 23:23 saying Jesus retained Tithe out of the law and i quoted the above to show you that Jesus asked you to keep not only tithe but THE ENTIRE LAW WHICH THE PHARISEES were teaching.

tell me why you're not honouring Jesus by obeying his injuction above

Akanniade: Its a greater torn in one's flesh when we have Judaizers as parents or siblings, whom we love with all our heart.

my brother i can identify with you.It's really sad

Bidam: ii still maintain tithing is NOT one of them because Jesus taught,

"For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone" (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42).


Paul taught,

"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace,"...Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives. Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak, For he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him. Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law" (Hebrews 7:1-2,8-12).

From the scriptures above both of them neither condemn tithes, rather they commended it. no matter how you guys twist those scriptures there are no loop holes in them.

you quoted Matt 23:23 but see what Jesus said in Matt 23:1-3
''then spake Jesus to the multitude,and to his disciples,Saying,The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat:All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe,that observe and do:but do not ye after their works:for they say,and do not''

Your Lord and my Lord spoke the above himself.you can see there is no ambiguity or loopholes.no matter how you twist the scripture it is clear there THAT YOU SHOULD OBEY ALL THE PHARISEES command you.

So how many laws of the Pharisees are you complying with?