₦airaland Forum

@haibe

marvelous hymn you reproduced up there.

'grace FREELY bestowed on all who believe'

God bless you indeed

shdemidemi: You can say whatever you want to say about a pastor that fall, the secular law can hold him bound as well but if he is in Christ there is no condemnation for such man in Christ. It might just be the will of God that the said man should go into this ordeal. One thing is certain the man will not come out the same way he went in to the problem, he would come out broken, never to trust in his flesh like legalists do but to trust God in his weaknesses and the resultant repercussion of his afflictions.

Even an apostle of Christ, the 'second in command' to Jesus, this one who saw Jesus face to face (when i say he saw jesus face to face, he saw all the miracles and wonders Jesus performed), the one who was to take over the ministry after Jesus leaves was broken, so who are you or me?
Luke 22:31
And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; [b]and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” 3[/b]3 But he said to Him, “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.” 34 Then He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me.”

Christ knew Peter too well than Peter knew himself. Christ knew he would fail the test but after he has been humbled and broken, he would be strengthened 'spiritually', he should then extend the strength to the brethren.

The truth of the matter is we all need sifting to separate us from the invaluables we carry. The man in question might just be going through the same phase, just as Joseph was put in the prison to build up his character. How do I know? Before Joseph got in prison he would say what is your dream 'I will interpret it', after his prison experience he would tell pharaoh "“It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh an answer of peace.” The man went in as an interpreter but came out as a mouthpiece of the real interpreter.

LEGALISM IS TANTAMOUNT TO HYPOCRISY!

It is by Grace alone lest any man boast.

my bro, all you wrote up there is based on the assumption that the said 'pastor' was even a Christian in the first place.A man who has had a career in using a 'higher level of grace'(where did he get that from?) to get into the pants of a number of 'sisters' in church without one iota of remorse can hardly be an example of God's grace in action.

A christian might fall but a true child of God wont remain there and glory in sin.

I might be wrong but i want to take liberty and assume that this same 'pastor' preaches on his inalienable right to collect tithes(as a high priest) and must have told his listeners they are going to hell for not remitting the 10% to him.How can he turn around now to talk of grace? A christian might fall into sin but if he really knows what the grace of God did for him, he would go out and weep badly like Peter did after the cock crowed.If he actually did it and he truly has the interest(both physical and spiritual) of his members at heart, he needs to come out clean about it.

If all what this lady said is true and the said MOG still stands up to preach in church today, then God help us indeed.

Ihedinobi: Lol. Yeah. I didn't care until he started answering Bidam at the beginning. I don't think putting a lid on such sentiments and attitudes as his is gonna help anyone at all.

yeah my bro, you're right.This is why we cannot do without the GRACE of God.It will always be better than our self efforts.

Pls let us bury the hachet.I'm not sure it benefits anyone

God bless you

Alwaystrue: @Ihedinobi,
Seeing the post was edited, I thought of what use it would be if you guys see this esp. @Bidam, so I decided to as well delete where I quoted him. I was thinking more of the effect but oh well, guess it was meant to be seen afterall.

What is on your mind o? I hope it is whatsoever things are true, honest, lovely and of a good report you are thinking of. You have been 'non-commenting' for a while now, hope you are well. You mentioned quite a lot of valid points up which I trust we will all take learnings from. The seeming hatred emanating from some posts are quite shocking, however. I guess one thing to note is that the conference is for a selected audience.
I pray we develop and mature continually more and more in Christ Jesus.

Dear sister,thanks for your interest and understanding.

While we try to point out errors in DrummaBoy's approach or the selection, let each of us try to put ourselves in his shoes and plan a programme like this in our minds. How will our choices go? I personally didn't know a thing like this was in the offing as i had gotten tired of this type of quarrels on NL religion forum and had limited my appearance here until i stumbled on a thread where they were trying to get my contact details.I will be a participant just like you.

Goshen, Drummaboy and Tgirl4real have an idea of the kind of programme they want to organize, Pls let us allow them. I say this not because i'm speaking(honestly i couldn't care less) but because i am always happy at any opportunity for bible study.I have disagreed with Bidam, Image, Joagbaje on some threads as i have also disagreed with Goshen, Frosbel and Christemmbassey.I always plead for us to remember Eph 4:3 in our engagements and i plead same here.

We can't all agree on everything but malice should never come into play whatever we say or do.I hope you, Bidam or Ihedonobi organize another beneficial programme and i'll willingly participate as long as i'm not barred.

Pls let us bury the hachet

God bless you

JesusisLord85: The reason we are not oblgated to tithe today, is NOT because the law is "done away with". It is because you cannot perform that act as prescribed.
If your pastor is a levite, bring him to me so I may tithe him.
But wait, was tithe in law EVER monetary? NO. Thay had a temple 'tax' which was money.
Tithe itself was the increase from the land. Do you have a farm?

Regarding the Yom Kippur bull sacrifice, that requires a high priest. When you find him, come and tell me too. Again, NOT because law is done away with.

Read the prophets and you will see that these sacrifices WILL return when Christ returns to reign in the millenial Kingdom. So if you thought it was 'bondage', you better get ready to be 'enslaved' again.

@the bolded defeats all pro tithe arguments. at least a self proclaimed JEW has told you a bit of his history . Jesus paid temple tax(Matt 17:26-27) but he couldn't have paid tithe because he wasn't a farmer and he couldn't have received tithes because he wasn't a Levi and this applied to all the 12 disciples so for someone to say today that the early gentile congregations paid tithes to Paul and the others shows ignorance or outright dishonesty. Mal 3:8-12 was a reminder of Deut 14:22-29, Num 18:21-31, Neh 10:37-39

Give to your church, but please IT WILL NEVER BE GOD'S TITHE. The almighty knows his tithe and those he asked to collect it. It's you and i who need to align our knowledge to what the almighty set down in the law by himself.

Nice post.

Let us brighten whatever corner we find ourselves.

God bless you

idnoble135: He did not say it was irrelevant. If it were irrelevant, he would not need to pray in tongues more than them all. 1 cor 14:18. To pray more than them all shows he must have been spending hours praying in tongues. Hence, it is highly relevant.

Correction brother @ the bolded. Paul said he spoke in tongues more than them all not pray in tongues

On this issue of speaking in tongues, i believe majority of what we hear in churches today qualify as absolute balderdash.It was a gift in the corinthian church so not everybody had it.However for our brethren here who display this gift, i would really like to know what the benefits are.What does it help you achieve? i would like answers with bible verses backing them up pls

I hope somebody would oblige me

Thanks

Bidam: Copout words oyibo preachers always use to discredit God's tithe."legalistic".SMH! Lord let your Kingdom come and let you will be done.God is indeed in Africa.

Bidam my brother, I am not discrediting God's tithe. You're the one insulting God with monetary tithes when he specifically mentioned farm produce and livestock.

Pls Go ahead and give 10%, 20% or 50 % of your income to your church, God will be happy at your generosity but IT WILL NEVER BE TITHE in the sight of God. He knows what his tithe is and he knows how he wants it collected. you are the one confused about it.

U and I have had a number of exchanges on this issue so much that I'm loathe to start a fresh one. So let God speak to you as you always tell me.

Cheers

Goshen, you just made me smile with your post. DAT hand way I fall, make e no break o

Pastor Kun got the exact reason why I was led to listen.You see, it was when he started that I realised he didn't have a bible discussion on his mind but his brief was to 'deliver' this recalcitrant renegade from anti-tithing spirit. My bro, I don't believe in winning an argument just for winning sake. It should have been a question and answer session(that's what I expected) but when MOG carry mic(so to speak) wet in man go do? Abi you want to hear that your brother threw punches with pastor? and I confess I could be very spirited in verbal exchanges.

My spirit told me to be quiet and it was wise I obeyed.Don't worry, God must have his own format of making him see the truth. It just wasn't meant to be me that day.

debosky: ^^ Just wait for The Lord to show you as he did to Oyedepo and Adeboye.

@ DrummaBoy

To avoid endless back and forth, let's agree to disagree. I take your point that there are other things money can be used for, but these alternatives will always exist. If the chosen use is legitimate and beneficial to church members, then it is permissible. We should seek for the best, but let God direct us and not be led simply by what we consider to be best.

I guess you're right at the bolded.

I just might be led to start my own ministry

cheers

christemmbassey: pls get intouch with Drummaboy asap. I must commend u 4 d grace of comportment, u realy tried.

i have my brother.

as for the grace, na God

Pastor Kun: Whilst I see the wisdom in listening to him though he said nothing new apart from the usual lies I would still very much like you write him a comprehensive rebuttal explaining to him scripturally why his position is flawed.

Make sure you write the rebuttal in such a way that you would tell him without insulting him that he is twisting God's word and it is a sin to do so.

I understand you Pastor Kun. I actually went there with the intention to destroy all his tithe premise but i believe i was led to just listen and like i said, it was better i did.

I trust we'll still have an engagement and maybe i'll have the liberty of Spirit to engage him then.

I'll just wait and see

DrummaBoy: You don't know what that write up did for me.

In fact, ever since I came to this section to ask about the tithing, I didn't even know you were not tithing. You always maintained the Romans 14 attitude that people should be given the freedom to use their finances the way they like. Now I have heard atleast a bit on your position. Very interesting.

I have been a secret non tithe payer. But with this write up, I am going public on my facebook this moment. And I would be quoting you.

I trust God for the strength to withstand the avalanche of criticism.

I understand you brother.I couldn't tell my better half for at least 4 months and my siblings and parents only got to know about a year ago. Fear and Tradition are strong things and coupled with the carry over from African superstition, they become a volatile and unstable mix.My Mum told me a tither never loses.She would rather tithe before buying food or clothes for herself and i had to remind her that despite her tithe and dangerous seed sowing, she was fleeced of a portion of her business capital last year by one of her 'Christian' brothers.

On this forum, pro tithe brethren accuse some of us of fighting against supporting churches or ministers but i'll say it here that I DO NOT SUBSCRIBE to refusing to give in your local church even though i have my reservations about the way monies are utilized in our churches(even my antagonists would agree here). However there are still some worthy causes that could do with your finance.If you like maintain the 10% threshold but i BEG you pls DO NOT CALL IT PAYING OF TITHE.It becomes legalistic when you do and the Christian liberty for which Christ died is eroded.Every debt you owe God has been paid in full in Christ.What you can't finish paying is a debt of love to fellow humans(Rom 13:8-10) particularly brethren of the household of faith(Gal 6:10).

Tithe was a TAXATION enforced on the Israelite to feed the tribe of Levi who were saddled with the task of administrating not only the sanctuary but the entire fabric of Israel's theocracy.Their task is better understood when you study Numbers 1:47-54, Numbers 3 & 4, Numbers 18:1-20.God then through Moses gave the tithe to them with full explanations in Numbers 18:21-31 and Deut 14:22-29(the reference that started my query )

DrummaBoy, you are making me start tithe preaching all over again and i've promised myself not to engage it again on this forum. take time o

@haibe

That is what Christianity has become.we've become conditioned to behave like schizophrenics over very issue.''forward this mail to 30 people and see a breakthrough in 30 days else your loved one will go down with cancer of the teeth'', ''sow this seed and get a hundred fold return in 24 hours or the angel of blessings will blacklist you'', and so many other nonsense. I remember the story of strange 'killer phone numbers' of 2011. We have become ruled by fear. The same fear carried over from our idolatrous and superstitious past.

When i see Christians who live in this kind of fear,i dont get impatient because i was once there too but the glorious light of the undiluted word of God delivered me.

I believe it will do the same for all who do a true searching of scriptures (John 5:39)

DrummaBoy: @Everyone and anyone

Does anyone know or have the personal contact of Candour? Pls do PM it to me. I need it ASAP. I have sent him a PM and he has not replied.

Thanks

my brother, sorry pls.i've done a PM to you.i await your reply

Lord almighty, pls deliver bro OLAADEGBU from the spirit of hell tourism in Jesus Christ's name.
Amen

@shevon

Congrats my brother.You're on your way to a rich discovery.Just study Num 18:1-end with special attention to verses 21-30 and also Nehemiah 10:37-38 in addition to the post from Goshen360 above.

This issue has really been over flogged on here but since you might be new to the discourse, you can post your findings and i believe there'll be brothers and sisters willing to discuss with you

God bless you

@DrummaBoy, Pastor Kun & Goshen360, you asked for update of my meeting so here goes

Well, i went to the see the pastor as agreed and i was armed with my bible of course.I really was ready to show him all he was missing or mixing up but as we approached his place(my sister and i), i had a leading in my spirit to just listen and hear him out and i was glad i did.

We exchanged pleasantries, sat down and he began to speak.He started by asking when i stopped tithing and i told him exactly 2 years ago this august.He then wanted to know how my finances and health were faring to which i replied that i had never been better placed in these areas.I believe this threw him off balance (as he obviously expected a negative report) and forced him to adopt a new approach.He cited Abram's tithe to Melchizedek and tied it to Gal 3:14,17 (i wondered the extrapolation he did to arrive at that link). He agreed Abraham had been blessed in Gen 12 but explained the blessing did not come in full until he paid tithe in Gen 14(more surprise). He agreed Jacob's tithe was a vow(therefore voluntary) but said this was why God made it a law under Moses(another wonder).He admitted Christ has delivered us from the curse of the law(Gal 3:13) but said that Oyedepo and Adeboye confirmed(from God of course) that financial blessings could only come from obedience to the tithe(really?).At this point, i ignored my bible(as he didn't have need for it) and just kept staring at him.

He then delved into testimonies of what Tithe paying had done in the lives of people.How Copeland got so rich by obeying tithe that he dashed out 26 jets out of his personal collections.How Oyedepo acquired 4 jets and started an airline just by obeying tithe too.Then how he too will soon join their ranks because he's obeying the tithe.I guess he deciphered i wasn't moved by these so he told of 7 Colombian youths who were shown the harsh torment in hell for good Christians(his exact words) who refused to pay tithes.Then he told me how God had planned great riches for me but non payment of tithe was hindering them. He admitted i looked comfortable but there was a higher plane of riches i needed to get to.

At this point he conceded that there were Christians who were not reaping benefits of tithe but he will soon release a message that will explain how to make tithe work for you. He then ended by saying i should pray to God that night for God to reveal the tithe principle to me.

At this point, i thanked him for his time and took my leave.I had come for a bible discussion but i ended up being preached at.It was a long sermon but it left me very sad. Sad at how Christians who should be relaxed and revel in God's peace were busy getting worked up in the hysteria of material acquisitions and becoming depressed when expectations are dashed.I was very happy i didn't talk much as it might have looked like bragging and it wouldn't glorify God.

My brethren, the sheer emptiness of most sermons in our churches of today hit me fresh from my encounter with this pastor.I could just imagine him struggling to make God see him as qualified for blessings(he hinted at financial difficulties for the past 12 months) when he ought to be walking in the realization that we were already blessed simply because we are in Christ Eph 1:3.We have access to all we need because of God's love Rom 8:32, Phil 4:19, Heb 13:5

That night, i just prayed that God will liberate him from his legalistic bondage. What more could i do?

Drummaboy

I had to cut short my self imposed ban from nairaland to applaud your treatise up there.If only christians will put in their thinking caps.becoming believers does not equate to handing our brains over to super men in the mold of MOG.

When churches fall over themselves to compete with the secular world, i have to agree a strange spirit has taken over.

Coincidentally, i have a discussion tommorow with an area pastor of the RCCG whom my sweet mum and younger sister reported my anti tithe stance to.i really want to hear what new revelation he has on this issue.

Thumbs up once again bro.

God bless u plenty

Tgirl4real: One thing you guys need to put into consideration in this 'once saved forever saved' gospel is that one who claims to be saved that still remains a perpetual sinner is not saved in the first place.

We are only looking at salvation from God's perspective.

How do you know a Christian from an unbel? Is it by answering altar call or by mere lip service?

What differentiates a believer from the world is the ability to live a godly life in this godless world.

Anyone living in pertual sin is NOT SAVED.

Salvation from man's angle is - 'working out your salvation with fear and trembling'.

Yes, God has saved us and anyone he saves is saved forever. But we know those God has saved by their godly character - fruits of righteousness.

Let's provide the right balance needed in this teaching.

Eph 1:13-14
'In whom ye also trusted,after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise,14.Which is the earnest(down payment) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory'

From the above reference, God sealed us the moment we believed the gospel which i believe is best explained in 1 Cor 15:1-4.Now what can unseal us when the king of Glory himself did it? Its like saying the devil could have opened the Ark of Noah and drowned the eight souls inside it.

A dilema however arises which i believe partly informs Tgirl4real, Alwaystrue, Bidam and other brethren's position.How do you reconcile the fact of a 'christian' who has no qualms about indulging his/her flesh in sin?Are they really believers? The simple answer is that they never believed in the first place.Becoming a believer is not just reciting a pledge after a pastor in church, it isn't easy believism.It is not just even believing in God because even the demons believe that.becoming a new creature in Christ is believing what God said about your fallen condition(Rom 1:18-32,Rom 3:10,23) and it's consequent punishment(Ezek 18:4,Rom 6:23),accepting the atonement by Christ(Rom 3:24-25) and believing God when he declares you justified by faith(Rom 4:5,Rom 5:1-2). This is the faith that saves us.If you truly believe God hates sin, you his child will never be happy or at peace while grieving God your Abba father.

If you have truly had all those convictions in the preceding paragraph, there is no way you'll ever be comfortable with sin.This is even more so when we remember we received the Holy Spirit as a down payment residing in us(Eph 1:14)instead what you'll experience are the fruits of the Spirit blossoming in your affairs and you and i know that No single Law in the Torah can find fault with these fruits(Gal 5:22-23). We are dead to sin brethren therefore it can't have any dominion over us to prevent us from walking in newness of life(Rom 6:1-4)

We however have a work to do and that is renewal of our minds(Rom 12:1-2) so that we can subdue the adamic nature which is still with us because of our flesh and we know this can only be achieved by daily feeding on God's word(Eph 5:26,2Tim 3:15-17). The more we feed our souls with the word, the more God works in us to will and do of his good pleasure.The sin nature is always subdued when we do God's pleasure because of the enmity between it and God(Rom 8:7).

Salvation looks too simple and cheap to us but it cost God a lot. we are the ones who cheapen it when we tell God Christ's sacrifice isn't enough to save us.Let us allow the Spirit of God finish the work he started in us if we are believers and we'll see the righteousness of God shine through.

God bless us all

Tgirl4real: Thanks for the kind words. I have left the critic biz for the men and teachers.

I just believe some things are said without given. I assumed we all are on the same page about certain things, forgetting this is NL.

Well, I respect Hagin a lot and followed him religiously (I used to think I had the prophetic calling)

One of the visions he had that didn't come to pass is that he was gonna see Jesus' second coming b4 he died.

He was also not totally truthful about his healing. He was hospitalized b4 he died.

@the bolded is the problem i have with a lot of our renowned MOG today.Why coat the truth about your personal trials? until when we put on incorruptible body,this body of flesh we have will remain subject to the curse pronounced in Genesis.It was after Oral Roberts died that it became public knowledge that he had a pacemaker inserted to aid his failing heart.That wasn't a sin,it just showed he was human.Admitting it would even encourage others who are in similar situations to know that God still loves and cares for them.

frosbel: How about warning others when you realise a teacher is propagating poison ? Is a teacher who produces both truth and error not more dangerous than an outrightly false teacher? And by not exposing them, how then are you watching out for your brethren.


smiley

Ephesians 5:11

My brother, i believe in exposing false doctrine but we shouldn't destroy tender plants in the process.We should avoid getting personal as much as possible.When you make it look like you're on a personal vendetta, the crux of your message will be lost as it degenerates to mudslinging.This has happened too often recently and i feel i should caution you.I fall into this trap sometimes too but i refuse to excuse it.God is not even remotely glorified when we his children try to consume each other.Dont let your good be evil spoken of.

God bless you

Tgirl4real: Amen. Thanks sir. U are one of the few I admire on here, u and Enigma.
Is someone jealous? lol

@ Drummaboy,

U like trouble no be small.

You are welcome dear sister.Thanks for the compliment.

Dont mind DrummaBoy.You should take away his drum and report him to his daughter

God bless

Tgirl4real: I went for an interview yesterday after series of written tests that seem unending....

The good news is that, I got the job. Yippie!!!

I'm grateful to God.

let me help my bro shdemidemi derail his thread further

congrats my sister.wish you many many more blessings in Jesus Christ name.Amen

God bless you plenty

@DrummaBoy

This episode rendered above is funny but at the same time very sad.This happens countless times even in 'church' buildings but few seem to discern it.Our idolatrous past and present make us very susceptible to these scams as we all have one tale or the other to render about the dark realm and their powers.

1 John 4:4 says 'Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world'

How many Christians believe the above is actually in their bibles? why don't we just trust that God spoke through apostle John when he penned that? why can't we just give these our paralyzing fears a quit notice and walk in the liberty we have as God's children.Fear is torment and it's bondage(I John 4:18 and Rom 8:15).

tomorrow is Sunday and countless will still be taken for fools by inhumane businessmen masquerading as MOG.

I pray more and more people come to the knowledge of the truth and be free.Knowing and believing what Christ did on the cross is the only deliverance you need.I pray more Christians come to know this truth.

alexleo: @candour,
Yes am also for the bible and want us to hold on to it but I do not also believe that Linda is confused and I see no reason to call her a charlattan. What she pointed out about these churches are things we see in them. Chosen prays often in the name of god of chosen or they say god of my pastor. This is highly suspicious. They worship their pastor and that apron they wear. That's why you see them wear the apron even when its faded on top of their suit, they say it protects them from evil and all that. How did those members come to this stage if not by evil manipulation? What he said about Deeper life not reaching out to other churches in love is also true. My church also does that and its bad. My dear am not here to defend any church. I wish she will say things about my church. My prayer is that God should expose every evil means of operation going on in churches. We can't be protecting our churches while members are trapped in evil's stronghold. Thanks.

@the bolded, i appreciate your candour.No gathering of believers is perfect but we shouldn't be found wanting on the weightier matters.

We must however exercise caution in believing these visions lest we make them the criteria of judging who is a christian or not.I see a lot of so called Christians check up these VCD's to know how to live their lives and that is bondage.1 Peter 1:19 tells us we have a more sure word of prophecy referring to the Bible and we are admonished to take heed to it.

We should pay more attention to the sure word as it's more reliable.People tend to get carried away with accolades and i perceive it happening to this woman.Her first CD was well received then now the second is out.I see more coming from her and the 'churches' rejoicing their names have not been mentioned by the hell visioner getting disgruntled when they become the next focus.

I have always looked @ any ministry that focuses on miracles and the demonic from afar and Chosen is no different.

You see the confusion that this lady is brewing?

1st CD - Adeboye, Kumuyi, Oyedepo are questionable

2nd CD - Muoka is a demon worshiper infact

Which G.O will feature in subsequent editions? I'm sure by the time she's through with her pleasure rides to hell, all churches will be branded hell bound.I hope that happens as i'm sure it will make every christian so called abandon these delusions and go back to studying the bible for themselves.That is how the wife of my friend(a pastor in one denomination) had her long hair cut short because of this woman's video some weeks back.You can see her feeling miserable about it but i guess the fear of 'sister Linda' is the beginning of wisdom for her.

@alexleo, do you now believe she's a confused charlatan or you'll wait till she fingers your church before seeing her for who and what she is?

I believe in a day of judgement because my bible is clear on that.I'm heaven bound because Christ purchased the ticket for me with his blood and i believe it so i dont think of hell at all.

Come to the Lord Jesus Christ and exchange your self righteous rags for his perfect garment of righteousness and start living in liberty of the spirit.Therein lies peace with God and peace of mind my people.

okeyxyz: The definition according to God is this: There is no sin/evil in Nature. Everything is good for use and consumption, just the way God made them originally.

God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.(Genesis 1:31)
Therefore: To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted(Titus 1:15)

It was the Law of Moses that started definition some aspects of nature as good and others evil(ie: The tree of the knowledge of good and evil). These were not God's definitions.

So why did Joseph refuse to sleep with potihar's wife if nothing was sin then? How come God slew 2 sons of Judah if nothing could be called wicked or sin before moses?

The law spells out our sin for us but long before the law we had conscience to tell us.read ROM 1:18-32 for the condition of natural man before the law even came.

The grace of God came to empower me to live above sin which I couldn't do on my own because the flesh is powerless against the Adamic nature I inherited from Adam

MostHigh: In other words Christ didnt save me to live like he lived

I hear you

You are not alone though take comfort in that.

I'm surely not alone bro, he has promised not to leave me nor forsake me and i surely take comfort in that.

cheers

Tgirl4real: I think he believes the blacks are the real Jews. Ermmm . . . I hope I got that right.

My sister, trying to reason with MostHigh is like knocking my head against a brick wall.Only the Holy Spirit can do that.

His ideas are too far-fetched for me

MostHigh: If he is your lord then you would live as a JEW or at least live EXACTLY the way he lived as witnessed in the scripture

But here you are trying to be greater than the master.

All this talk and no action has repercissions.

No my brother, Christ didn't save me to live like a Jew.

Dont worry yourself.like i said,you and i(and i'm sure a lot of contributors to this section) are singing from different hymn books.

keep up with your Judaism if it gives you peace.

Cheers

MostHigh: Salvation is of the JEWS.

I am happy you know your position.

And like I intimated previosly the gentiles shall be ruled with a rod of IRON.

Glad i know my position in the BODY OF CHRIST.

Sure unbelievers will have it rough when my Lord returns