₦airaland Forum

tensor777:
^^First of all you need to be structured in your arguments.We are discussing Nigeria here. Yet you are the one that has been completely going off on a tangent by bringing up other countries, perhaps to create diversionary arguments. I refuse to go down that route.
In any case the basic issue here is that you lot have yet to come up with an alternative viable economic model for the country

oh, i get it when the other person exposes a hole in your argument , you accuse the other person of "going off on a tangent" - yes we were talking about nigeria but we were also talking about capitalism which as you know does not exist only in nigeria, your argument is that it is the only sustainable economic model worth having, and in order to rebut this falsehood i along with some other posters gave examples of countries where it has been an unmitigated failure, so i dont know where you got this idea that i was going off on a tangent.

tensor777:
In summary, the OP has got it all wrong. The Federal Government has to continue its policy of opening up the economy by encouraging foreign direct investment. and free trade
The key to sustainable economic growth and development in Nigeria will in fact be the  demand for consumer goods and services from the growing middle classes.
A return to economic nationalism and trade protectionism will in fact make the poor even poorer than they are now.

what you've said here is contradictory, as Odumorun stated earlier western countries like britain and america  HAVE returned to economic nationalism - it was the tax payers who had to bail out the banks - these banks were not left to the whims and caprices of the free market they were SAVED by tax payers, Obama took $700b of tax payers money to bail out banks that were on the verge of bankruptcy , Brown did the same in england so you are contradicting yourself. The royal bank of scotland, northern rock, bradford and bingley all these banks were saved from bankruptcy using tax payers money.

now lets for the sake of argument even agree that the number of poor stands at a "mere" 32 million - do you think that is acceptable in an economy which according to you serves as a model of the capitalist system to the rest of the "developing" world.

i dont understand why you are posting pictures of downtown jakarta, what does that prove?  why dont  you post pictures of affordable housing, schools and health care facilities for the working people there ?  

i cant understand why you are such an advocate of such right wing ideologies, what stake do you have in a system which is set up to benefit the very few and screw the majority?  i doubt that you are a member of the elite group whose economic policies you vigorously defend and therefore im puzzled as to your outlook.

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5920564#msg5920564 date=1271715431]^^

I know, that article came out in 2006, and i read it, point is poverty is about 13% today,
and if the Govt gives cash payouts to poorer ppl, then its a good thing(i thought u were a socialist,u should be happy )

I really dont know what your agenda is on this topic,
Indonesia is a success story,Its a democracy,
If the people were unhappy they would take to the streets like they are doing in Thailand right now

Asians dont play when it comes to protests, [/quote]you really dont get it do you?  the govt gave one off cash handouts to the people which created an artificial reduction in the overall figures, does that not indicate to you that your glorious capitalist system is not working.

if indonesia is a success story then that would mean that nigeria is also a success story but you seem to measure sucess in a completely different way from everyone else, my idea of success is people havign the opportunity to feed themselves and provide for their families on a decent wage, whats your idea?

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5920469#msg5920469 date=1271714448]Pulled another statistic from your a.s.s?

Here are 3 different articles on indonesian poverty. . .
It clearly puts it at around 13%, which is about 32million ppl out of a 226million total,

Also u should know that most G-20 member countries,are doing ok in terms of poverty reduction
That is probably why Nigeria is not a member yet

1.http://sigitarinto.com/2009/03/03/indonesia-poverty-rate-in-2009-estimated-to-drop-by-19-to-135/

2. http://povertynewsblog..com/2009/07/indonesias-poverty-rate-falls.html

3.http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7925064[/quote]that figure is a heavily massaged figure - try reading the article in the economist - actually here is an excerpt from that article:

WHEN two scavengers died last week under a landslide at Jakarta's main rubbish dump, the extensive television coverage that resulted provided a too-rare glimpse into the plight of some of Indonesia's poorest people. And their ranks are swelling. After declining for six years the number of poor people has increased sharply. Some 39m, 18% of the population of 220m, are now officially poor, according to data just released by the government's statistics bureau, 4m more than in 2005.

AFP
Almost one in fiveThat the poverty level has stopped falling is no surprise. A 126% increase in fuel prices last October catapulted inflation to 18%, while wages increased only marginally. The number of poor Indonesians would have soared even more, to 51m according to the statistics office, if the government had not given cash handouts to some 76m people to cushion the effects of the fuel-price increase (which eliminated a costly subsidy). But activists are questioning the data. They argue that the figures fail to give the full alarming picture.


http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7925064

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5920346#msg5920346 date=1271712967]^^
Yawn, Most Indonesians are happy with their countrys place in world history. .
They are a member of the G-20, and have international respect,

There is solid manufacturing, with continueing GDP growth
Unemployment rate is only 7.8%, see link, http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Unemployment-Rate.aspx?Symbol=IDR

again i will take these figures for Nigeria anyday. .
Imagine Nigeria as a member of the G-20, and unemployment rate @8%.

I dont believe in slogans or ideology, i believe in doing what will bring results
PPl like u claim to love the poor,
but u dont realize the socialist policies u seek will keep them poor for life [/quote]what place in world history? - where are you getting your figures from?  70 million people in that country STILL live below the poverty line, many are condemned to a life of  indentured slavery how does that translate as an improvement on what they had before, oh i get it, before,  they owned their own farms and lived off the land but now the land has been appropriated by multinationals, they are forced to move to overcrowded slums like ajegunle where they then eke out a living on 72pence a day working in sweat shops for multinationals - can you please explain to me how this is an improvement - its baffles me how you can continue to regurgitate this bilge when even leading american academics see it for what it is:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11635.htm

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5915111#msg5915111 date=1271635218]
u had to go back what 10yrs to get a story about indonesia that u can place here?
come on,
Indonesia faced a communist upheaval in its early yrs,
The period in your arcticle was immediately after the Asian financial crises of 1997
All the major Asian economies were affected by reduced output from factory's and slump in GDP

However Indonesia is a better place today,its people are more prosperous, Its GDP growth is solid
It is no longer a member of OPEC, Hence its not a purely commodity based economy
and its due to again a good economic model. . .based of capitalism,strong capital markets,Corporate Bond Markets and so on[/quote]paddylo you are still clinging on to this falsehood that capitalism elevates the living standards of the poor - why dont you hear from the horse's mouth what capitalism did to working people in indonesia - here is a documentary created by indonesian workers narrating their experiences at the hands of capitalism perhaps you could learn something :

http://freedocumentaries.org/teatro2.php?filmID=95&lan=en

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5914938#msg5914938 date=1271631843]Indonesia and brazil are economic powerhouses in their respective regions. . .
I can bet u that Govt spending on welfare as a percentage of GDP is less than 10% in both countries
the real growth drivers are on the Jarkata stock Exchange. . .or the Exchange in Sao Paolo
The various companies that the govt taxes to get money to spend are what makes growth and development happen
TBContd. . .

[/b][/color][/quote]you really are clueless, the idea that the capitalist model as demonstrated by indonesia should be held up as  a model to aspire to indicates to me that you are either completely ignorant or morally bankrupt.

i dont think you are used to critical analysis and therefore i have posted this link that may help you to understand more about what capitalism meant for Indonesia, this country is held up as a model of capitalism but  the world bank and IMF conveniently leave out the backdrop to this supposed success story , the genocide that took place first in order to usher in this system, the destruction it has sown, this is what you are advocating for nigeria, and i can tell you that the stage has been set for the same thing to happen in nigeria by the international financial instititutions (IMF, world bank)  I suggest you read this link and try and understand what capitalism is really about rather than parrot this neo liberal garbage that you were fed in college:

http://www.inminds.co.uk/globalisation-in-indonesia.html

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5914371#msg5914371 date=1271624223]and HAVANA still looks like its 1950, with 1950 volkswagon beetle plying its streets
Thats what happens when u allow a Govt to control the means of production and capital

Capital allocation is wasted on meaningless things like weapons and a large army
To the detriment of any real economic activity[/quote]the reason that Cuba's economy is in the state that its in is because of a 51 year trade embargo imposed by america and yet admirably it has acheived more for its citizens than oil rich nigeria and even the wealthiest country in the world - america, i dont know about you but i find that highly commendable.  perhaps you would have preferred the pre castro cuba that was run by the american mafia in cahoots with some corrupt cuban elitists and landowners, where the vast majority of the population lived in ghettos having been kicked off their land by american multinational corporations?

you talk about capital allocation being wasted on meaningless things like weapons but are you aware that the US has the highest defence budget in the world?  i cant beleive you actually referred to weapons as being "meaningless things"  lol

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5914405#msg5914405 date=1271624597]Nobody owes u a job, look around u,there are 6billion ppl on this planet and each one of us is trying to make a living. .
If u dont have the requisite skills in Jobs that are in demand,like engineers,doctors,lawyers,Mathematician,etc then u are stuck with a low paying job
until u improve your skillls through education. . .

No one is forcing those haitians to work at the factory. . .If they were computer engineers,AAPLE, GOOGLE or anyone of the thousands of IT firms in silicon valley
would be rushing to hire them for $100,000 a yr plus stock options. . .

How do u expect to eat fat, if u dont bring any value added to the equation?[/quote]So what you are saying is that low wage earners should not be protected from predatory employers because their jobs are of less value - are you aware that many low wage earners undertake the kind of work which is crucial for the proper functioning of  societies, the idea that these peoples work is of a lower status and therefore not worthy of any form of protection from multinational predators demonstrates to me how shallow your level of thinking is.

this is why nigeria is in the Poo state that it is in because the so called "educated professionals" reason like you , not everyone is going to be a white collar worker, for a society to advance propertly it needs, plumbers, electricans, builders,  nurses as well as surgeons, scientists and mathematicians but the educational system has to be up to a certain standard in order to produce these kind of individuals - the nigerian educational system is certainly not capable of producing quality graduates who can compete with graduates of western institutions, just in case you are unaware one of the conditions stipulated by the international financial institutions as a condition of FDI is to cut public expenditure  and the nigerian govt has complied with this by cutting public spending on education and health hence the deplorable state of schools and hospitals in the country all in a bid to attract this your wonderful FDI.

Also just in case you think you are safe from being on the receiving end of outsourcing i can tell you that many of the white collar jobs( particularly IT ) are not safe from outsourcing to countries where labour is cheap multinationals are not going to pay an american or european let alone a black person a huge salary for doing the same job that an indian or nigerian will do for a fraction of that salary.

also with the outsourcing of jobs the market becomes saturated with too many people chasing too few jobs and that leads to a knock on effect of depressed salaries, so again i think you are being over optimistic in the options that you think are available to you.

You champion what you see as the attributes of capitalism but you have failed to understand one of its most fundamental tenets the pursuit of profit AT ANY COST - be careful what you wish for lest it comes back to bite you in the backside.

tensor777:
I had a feeling you were soft on Castro and an admirer of the communist system.How do your neo-communist ideas facilitate wealth creation? How does it answer my questions above?

of course i admire a leader who after a 51 year economic blockade from america has been able to keep the economy of his country afloat and provide for the citizens of his country.

whats wrong with being a supporter of communisim if it can provide a decent standard of living for its citizens?

you keep parrotting wealth creation - wealth creation for whom?  - are you getting rich off the spoils of capitalism or is it a tiny minority of plutocrats - If we use a country like america as an example the richest people  make up a mere 1% of the entire population of that country and they own 60% of corporate stock and business assets.

contrary to this fairy story that has constantly been sold to you ad nauseam that you can get rich from just working hard most wealth in the western world is INHERITED .

when you buy into this mirage about wealth creation you should ask yourself wealth creation for whom?

contrary to the popular beleif that capitalism creates wealth for the lower classes that is patently not the case it simply enables the rich to get even richer and the poor to get by.

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5914049#msg5914049 date=1271620227][b]Your write up is flawed in logic and FACT. . .

Nigeria,Indonesia,India and Thailand Have beneffited from FDI inflows and continue to seek more inflows
Poor ppl especially in these countries have seen their standards of living go up as a result of free trade

For all your rants about NAFTA, it has led to job growth in Mexico,Canada and the USA
and has created lots of jobs, that is why it is still the law in america today

For your information,half a job is better than no job. . .the person employed in a call centre in india is better off that DELL,or IBM came in to set up that call centre
It doesnt matter what the wages are,as long as they meet the minimum wage requirements in the country

If u dont know that Capital can be moved in an instant from place to place then u havent really studied the globe. .
There is nothing keeping any Foreign company tied to any country in the world. . .
DELLs call centres can be in Nigeria or ghana, it doesnt have to be in india,
It is up to us to lure that FDI away from india to Nigeria. . .

Same is true with Nigeria, there is nothing unique,to bring non-oil FDI into the country
so if our policies are not attractive enough,it can move to Ghana,kenya or south Africa, then what?
will the Govt now employ the millions leaving school each yr, and pay them with stone?
or print money like zimbabwe and turn the economy into a basket case?

please your write up makes sense as long as it is not u living under those rules u expouse
go to zimbabwe,North Korea or cuba and tell them how good they have it cause they expelled the evil capitalists
better still live there for a while and u will know how good u have it[/b][/quote]your response is totally devoid of any iota of critical analysis, instead of parrotting off all the trash that your neo liberal lecturers forced down your throat, why dont you look at what is actually happening on the ground, are you telling me that you would be happy to work for 14 cents an hour rather than have no job at all, haitian factory workers were being paid around that to make t shirts for nike and other sportswear manufacturers, some of these workers were not making enough money to pay for their transport fare to and from work,  nike also makes billions in profit from using child labour in south east asian countries, some of these kids work 36 hour shifts with 30 mins breaks in deplorable working conditions would you be happy to let your own child work in a Poo hole like that for 14 cents an hour?  

why cant nike, gap and reebok  keep their factories in the US and pay americans a decent wage to do these same jobs, well i think we both know the answer to that because they want to maximise their profits, why would they want to be saddled with paying for health care, pension andd redundancy when they can hop across to haiti, nigeria or india and pay starvation wages.  I cant beleive you a nigerian can sit here and champion the cause of neo slavery because this is what this is on the grounds that it is better to have any job rather than no job.  Do you not understand that it is a basic human right to be able to earn a decent wage and be able to afford a roof over your head and money to feed yourself and your family, what these multinationals are doing is exploiting people who are already vulnerable by offering the the lowest wages that they can get away with paying.  

for your information Cuba provides free health care and education up to university level to ALL OF ITS CITIZENS FREE OF CHARGE - so stop displaying your ignorance, Cuba's health and education system puts america to shame, is it not the same america where the public school system is so substandard that the average american has the literacy level of a fourth grade pupil, is this not the same US which in the 21st century is yet to provide a comprehensive affordable health care system to all of its citizens - give me a break.

can you give me evidence of the increased standard of livign that nigerians have enjoyed since the nigerian govt opened up the country to FDI, where are the jobs that have been created, where is the evidence of increased standard of livign amongst the average nigerian - i would very much welcome some hard evidence to back up this  your claim.

for your information it is the responsibility of govts to protect workers from exploitative and predatory multinationals not leave them at the mercy of these corporations in a bid to stay competitive this why we have legislation and labour unions , what happened in nigeria with ericsson sacking IT workers and replacing them with indian workers without paying compensation could never happen in the UK, but if we are to go by your warped analysis its all part of being competitive and attracting investment, just pray you dont find yourself on the receiving end of this sort of treatment.

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=432179.msg5913183#msg5913183 date=1271606637][b]FDI Inflows to Nigeria in the past 10yrs has mostly been into Oil. . . .Gas. . . .Telecommms, Nigerian Stock Exchange. . .Nigerian Banks. . .and Infrastructure
Every FDI u get helps to stabilize your local currency and at the same time stimulate growth
It is the opposite of capital outflows, so its a good thing

Also remember that nobody is forced to bring in their money
as u are trying to attract FDI inflows,all other 200+, countries in the world are trying to attract inflows into their economy. .
so its a function of the policies that Nigeria decides to push. . .

For example, if we get a good PIB bill. . .Then billions of dollars more will come into the Oil and gas Sector
If we decide to Liberalize power. . .Then u can imagine that some FDI will flow into the power sector

As for how FDI helps to improve the economy. .
heres a detailed research item by NCC(who are very competent),on the impact of mobile services in Nigeria
http://www.ncc.gov.ng/

Some key excerpts. , . .

Pyramid Research estimates that capital investments in mobile networks and operations have accounted
for 80% of total telecommunications foreign capital investments (a total of more than $12bn by the
middle of 2008) since the Nigerian government successfully liberalized the industry in 2001.
As of March 2010, the NCC reported $18bn in telecom sector CAPEX, $16bn of which is invested by
mobile operators.

The explosion of the mobile industry in Nigeria has resulted in a series of positive effects
across the economy ranging from investment in networks to the creation of employment
Transformational Role of Mobile Services

Mobile services have multiple positive effects in an economy, most notably in emerging markets. Their
economic benefits extend beyond the investment that network operators allocate to license fees, taxes
and network equipment and include the following factors:

End user spend money on mobile telecom services and devices allows a new industry to
flourish

Telecom operator spending on marketing, distribution, maintenance, training, support and
network enhancements create important benefits for all involved in the value chain

Mobile operators create employment, both direct and indirectly, and invest in the
development of the labor force.

Mobile services have a wide economic impact in a country, since they enable end users to
conduct their daily business in a more effective manner, reducing the time and cost of
transactions, improving access to markets, commoditizing information and generally allowing
businesses to operate more efficiently.

According to Pyramid’s estimates, the annual revenue from mobile services represents
between 2% and 7% of African countries’ Nominal GDP; in Nigeria this ratio is close to 4%

Mobile operators also contribute to the economy by directly and indirectly creating jobs to
provide and distribute their services; in Nigeria, we estimate there are as many as 3m
Transformational Role of Mobile Services
jobs related to this industry

There are several groups of jobs, which
can be divided into two subgroups, that Employment related to mobile sector In Nigeria, 2009
gravitate around mobile services:

The top category of indirect employment
encompasses equipment sales,
p y g ,
infrastructure deployment, advertising,
marketing and public relations as well as
security — workers involved in the
protection of base stations. Reportedly, in
2008 Zain employed as many as 8,000
security guards.

At the base of the pyramid, there are
mobile service resellers, recharge card
distributors, retailers, phone booth
operators as well as street vendors. The
so-called mini call centers consist of
simply one or a few mobile phones and
airtime bought in bulk from the operator.
Call center operators allow other people
to use the phone for a fee and quite
often will take a message, also for a fee.

PLS read further below. . .


Source: Pyramid Research

http://www.ncc.gov.ng/
[/b][/quote]paddy lo you sound extremely naive and inexperienced in your glorification of the positive attributes of foreign direct involvement but have you stopped to find out who the main beneficiaires of this system are?  have you stopped for a minute to even look at the trail of destruction that foreign direct investment has caused in countries like nigeria, indonesia, india and thailand.  
the primary objective of multinationals investing in countries like nigeria is to MAXIMISE their profits at the expense of the labour force, the only way that this is guaranteed is if they can get away with paying the lowest wages for labour that they can get away with THATS WHY THEY INVEST IN AFRICA, ASIA and OTHER countries with unregulated labour markets, non existent human rights records and repressive govts, you are totally deluded if you think nigerians are getting a good deal out of the billions of dollars being invested in nigeria by all these foreign vultures and parasites, these people are working in cahoots with your corrupt govts to EXPLOIT the nigerian workforce because they know that they can get away with paying dirt cheap wages, sack people with no compensation, outsource jobs, and STILL MAKE RECORD PROFITS.  

A similar situation is currently ongoing in the US with NAFTA (the north atlantic free trade agreement) this agreement between america canada and mexico  enabled cross border trade between these three countries and it also allowed for the removal of tarrifs enabling american businesses to outsource thousands of jobs to mexico without being burdened by high production costs, because like nigeria, labour in mexico is dirt cheap the labour market is also unregulated or poorly  regulated,  employers  can get away with sacking whole chunks of the workforce without paying them compensation, go and research NAFTA and find out how it decimated thousands of manufacturing jobs in the united states resulting in widespread unemployment, go and find out what happened in places like detroit michigan where thousands of motor manufacturers outsourced jobs to south east asia, you dont know the half of what this FDI that you keep glorifying does to host nations.

look at what is currently happening in nigeria with Ericsson, didnt they sack 450 nigerian telecoms workers without compensation due to the lack of regulation and replace these workers with cheap indian workers, this is what globalization or capitalism is all about maximisation of profit at the expense of the indigenous economy, the only people who profit from this are the multinationals and nigerian govt officials who demand bribes in exchange for the award of these contracts to these vulture, keep fooling yourself that the average nigerian stands to gain anything from this brutal system

Pennywise:
It is not about shame, it is about perception.

I dont want a low ranking poorly paid ECO looking down at me when I disembark at Heathrow or JFK as someone coming from a country besieged by refuse b/c it is not true.

It depends on what you really want when you come to Nigeria. We have got life in abundance here. If it is refuse you want to look at, fine.

The only people who like to see such things told about Nigeria are a section of the white population b/c it makes them feel good abt themselves. Also you have some of our people who see this as an excuse for their continued enslavement, mental anguish untold hardship in the west rather than return home b/c there is suffering in Nigeria.

sorry mate its a bit late to try and assume an air of superiority when 80% of the nigerian population live below the poverty line, if the level of hardship isnt as acute as you are trying to lead people into beleiving why are so many nigerians desperate to leave the country to come and work in the west as security guards, toilet attendants, care assistants and road sweepers, its time to stop deceiving yourself the nigerian govt has failed its people and have continued to fail its people, a nation as rich as nigeria that cannot provide the basic neccesities: employment, shelter, food, electricity, water supply HAS FAILED and no amount of protestation on your part about not being looked down upon by whites in the west will change that.  

For your information their highly sophisticated media has already brainwashed their people into beleiving that africans are inferior, that their country is war and disease ravaged, that their leaders are corrupt and inept, therefore before you even open your mouth they have a perception in their minds about who you are and where you are coming from.

Katsumoto:
Wouldn't it be better to just have a visionary leader rather than just an incompetent looter? That way, a majority of Nigerians can have a better life. That things have been bad in the last 50 fifty years should not stop us from working for a better tomorrow. You need to get rid of this 'jeun soke' mentality. There is more to life than being the son of a man who is a friend to a looter. Karma is a naughty woman and it always strikes.

brilliant response to sjeezy8 and his morally bankrupt brigade

sjeezy8:
please vote for him thats my uncles close friends na hook up for me.

yea no one should abuse ojukwu because he backed IBB. There many yoruba who want IBB to be president also

IBB is not considered any enemy of the yoruba and neither is ojukwu because yorubas have no enemy. They are people do politics not based on ethnic sentiments but self interest individually.


IBB is not anyones enemy except poor people. Cause Elite yoruba will vote him over anyone in a second if it benefits them.

If I was selfish I would say jonathan should forget about 2011. Cause honestly IBB as president is good for me. Infact my uncles dislike Obasanjo and are close with IBB. what makes him an enemy to yorubas? Yorubas like me dont have enemy only connections.

Onlytruth guy- I told you yoruba people have no enemies- some want him(IBB) or another northerner to be president because they know that the VP will be zoned to the SW.
IF i was a tribalist and selfishly greedy- I would support IBB or Gasau but im not

Ojukwu thinks hes doing the right thing for igbos but hes not just like he did with Abacha and Shagari. It will always backfire

sjeezy8 people like  you are like a cancer in the nigerian system, you and your followers are parasitic scourges who will continue to arrest the development of nigeria and condemn the future of so many hardworking nigerians to a life of grim poverty,  who gives a damn whether IBB is your uncle's close friend, perhaps your uncle is a drug pusher like his friend IBB, you and people with your mentality are a disgrace and i pray that "your uncle's friend"  IBB gets what he deserves  - a permanent residence 6 feet under because that is the best place for him, if there is indeed a god this satanic demon should never be  given the opportunity to inflict more suffering on the people of nigeria again.   

thank god not all yorubas reason like you only immoral lowlifes like you and your so called uncle.

Eziachi:
@Cap28,

Forget about my hero or Onlytruth'd hero, I have challenged you to name your Yoruba hero and let us talk about him/her, you will never know, you could finally open our blinded eyes. If you can't do that, then just go to sleep. It is time to put up or shut up. Lets hear if from you. Who is your Yoruba leader?
You insulted Ojukwu because you said that he endorsed IBB's political ambition and then I told you that IBB announced his ambition at the heart of Yoruba land with Yorubas as his host/Guest, including your brother/governor Daniel in attendance, but you kept silent and your silent now in that regard is deafening. HYPOCRITE.

myopia combined with tribalism is a deadly mixture, this is what you are suffering from and it will continue to lead people like you into a dead end.  why do you continue to make this an ethnic issue when the real issue is a flawed individual whose moral bankruptcy caused the death of 3m of his own people.  the fact that he continues with his deceit to this day seems not to make any difference to you, okay so IBB was endorsed by yorubas - i was never in support of any group be they igbo or yoruba endorsing IBB because i know that he is an enemy of progress so i dont understand why you are bringing up the fact that he was endorsed by my "brothers" in the past. 

where has this sentimental attachment to Ojukwu gotten you and other acolytes?  It didnt get you anywhere 40 years ago and it certainly will not get  you anywhere today, why not learn from the mistakes made by betrayers like Ojukwu and focus on supporting genuine people who have the interest of their fellow nigerians at heart instead of a fraudulent self appointed messiah whose loyalty to his people was nothing more than a smokescreen used to mask his deep craving for power at any cost.

Onlytruth:
So who told you that he is not doing the Igbo agenda by backing IBB? Let me tell you, there can only be few leaders while the crowd follows. If you want to know where the Igbo stand in Nigeria, you better start looking at the Ojukwus.
IBB may be your enemy and nemesis, but he is our friend.

this is what i call self delusion how will igbos benefit from an IBB presidency, can't you see that Ojukwu has no loyalty to you, only to himself - he has realised (after needlessly bringing about the death of 3m of his own people) that the real power in nigeria remains with the north - he tried to dislodge this power bloc but failed, now like a true traitor he has decided that if you cant beat them you might as well join them, cant you hear from his responses to the interviewer that those people are his friends, see how he refers to IBB - even going as far as saying: he has a sense of humour - for christ's sake this man looted over £12b from the national treasury!!!

Eziachi and onlytruth you will continue to be blinded by your myopic tribalism - have you seen me mention anything about igbo vs yoruba on this thread, no,  because i can see that looking at things through a tribal lense totally distorts ones ability to judge a situation objectively, i am not condemning ojukwu as an igbo man, i am condemning him as a man period and for your information i am igbo.

dede1, onlytruth, metal gong- do you see what im telling you about your hero - have you heard that he has now come out to endorse IBB for the 2011 presidency, you guys need to wake up and understand that this man is a traitor to igbo people.

http://www.ifeyinka.com/2010/04/ibb-should-return-says-dim-odumegwu.html

Onlytruth:
My nagging questions about Ojukwu are as follows:

Why did he insist that Yorubas should meet their quota in the military?

What could he have lost if he sold his people and bowed to Gowon?

Why did he demand that northern troops leave Yorubaland?

more questions are coming after you've answered these. . .

because he realised (belatedly) that he was about to be tactically outmanoevred by a joint north and west coalition, the british had ensured that a military dominated by the north was the only way they could ensure power remained in the hands of the northern oligarchy, they wanted the north to hold the reins of power in collaboration with either a western or eastern backed support however the supporting role had to be in a SUBORDINATE position, zik agreed to this (this is why he wasnt in support of the cessation) however events overtook the british plan for control, what the british did not want was a dominant east and definitely not with Ojukwu in power, the only set up which was acceptable to the british was a northern led structure with either east or west support but NOT in a dominant position.  Is this not the model that is still in operation till today?

If Ojukwu had abandoned his people and bowed to Gowon - he would be out in the cold - Gowon would not be under any obligation to negotiate with him without any power base, hence his efforts to form some sort of coalition with the western states.  

Ojukwu wanted the northern troops to leave the west in order to enable him consolidate his power base and break the north's hold over power.  britain knew this and this why they ensured that the north formed an alliance with the west thereby making it difficult for Ojukwu to singlehandedly wrest control of nigeria from the north.  

onlytruth the problem with you is that you are too shortsighted and limited in your understanding of what this war was about, who the real power brokers in nigeria are and how tribalism has been used by external forces to impede the progress and development of nigeria as a viable political and economic entity.

only in nigeria can an animal who inflicted so much suffering on his own people have the guts to stage a comeback for a repetition of the same, could this man do this is anyother nation, where in the world does a man who stole £12billion in public funds have the balls to come out again to talk about running for office, - why is this man not sitting in kirikiri serving life. the fact that this man has been endorsed by the US as a credible candidate to run for president tells us what they think of us.

when are we going to realise that the destiny of this country lies in our own hands?

@odumorun you are 100% spot on in your analysis of the so called nigerian middle class, i would go further to add that they are a bunch of parasitical cowards who add nothing to the progress of nigeria as a whole, this so called educated class cannot and will not do anything about wresting the economic and political control of this country from the stranglehold of the criminal gang that has been running this country since independence, instead they bleat on about their so called educational and material successes, it was members  of the british ruling class - former prime minister lloyd george, winston churchill, lord beveridge and former prime minister clement atlee who created the british welfare state which has saved so many members of the british working class and underclass from ending up in the kind of grinding poverty as shown on this documentary.  

What we have in this country is a bunch of shameless, thugs and criminals masquerading as leaders egged on by  sycophantic cowards who would rather sell their mothers before they stand up for the truth.  Those fools who are angry that the bbc have exposed the abject poverty that 80% of the nigerian populace is condemned to live in are a disgrace, these are the same people who run away to europe and america to try and benefit from a system which was fought for by the same poor and disenfranchised people that they despise in their own country - they make me sick.

I have debated severally with some numbskulls on here who like to proclaim loudly about the so called acheivements of nigerian professionals abroad that individual success means nothing if 80% of your population lives in squalor and grinding poverty, this is somethign that the average nigerian cant seem to get in to their skulls.  

As you correctly stated scientists, mathematicians, inventors, academics in the west focus on the contributions they can make to their country in order to uplift their people as a COLLECTIVE GROUP but with a nigerian his vision is stunted and myopic - as the most populous black nation in the world, and with our academic achievements we should be leaders not followers, but as long as we focus on tribalism, materialism, religion,  individual success as opposed to collective success and other trivia,  we will remain where we are today - backward.

Dede1:
@Cap28

To say that I was not impress on reading the names of your listed revolutionaries in Africa is an understatement. I guess you are entitled to your skewed opinion and must be judged by your words. Please be informed that your words betrayed you as a dimwitted jackass.

Dede1 you make me laugh - since you have the nerve to mention skewed opinion - why dont we take a look at your own skewed opinions:  you admire and bow before a man who embarked on a war he knew he could not win because of selfish personal ambition.

you worship and idolise a man who did not learn his lesson after the nigeria biafra civil war but came back after mysteriously being pardoned by the shagari regime (i believe that he used his british connections to secure that pardon because i know of no revolutionary leader who was allowed to come back into the same country after leading a secessionist movement within it )  to FORM AN ALLIANCE WITH THE SAME ELITE GROUP WHO MASSACRED HIS OWN PEOPLE - this is your hero

he FRATERNISED WITH AND FORMED AN ALLIANCE WITH  A STAUNCH MEMBER OF THE HAUSA FULANI OLIGARCHY - Sani Abacha - this is your hero

Now look at my heros: Fela Kuti - fought for social justice and equality of the poor irrespective of  ethnic background - suffered brutal repression from the rulling classes and had his mother murdered in the process

Gani Fawenhinmi - fought for social justice for all irrespective of ethnic background -suffered beatings, imprisonment and death threats

Kwame Nkrumah - challenged western imperialism and fought for social justice and economic progress of africa as a unified entity (pan africanism) - was toppled by CIA

sekou toure - former guinean president - fought french imperialism - suffered economic isolation following his decision to drop out of french controlled francophone entity

thomas sankara - fought french imperialism - murdered by french backed coup detat

nelson mandela - fought western backed apartheid and imperialism - spent 27 years in prison

patrice lumumba - fought belgian and american backed imperialism - murdered by the CIA

NOW COMPARE my heros to your self appointed igbo messiah and i think it becomes crystal clear to anyone with an iota of intelligence who the dimwitted jackass between the two of us really is.

katsumoto i think you are putting these ojukwu acolytes to shame with your indepth and objective analysis of what went on during this tragic period, if only people like only truth, dede1 and other emotional basket cases could take off those rose tinted glasses for a second and see this man for who he really is they would start making sense.

what i find amazing is some people's definition of a hero , the fact that Ojukwu fought a battle which he knew he could not win does not make him a hero it makes him a megalomaniac, the same way hitler tried to fight a war on 2 different fronts sacrificing millions of his german soldiers lives, ordering them to advance into the bitter russian terrain with temperatures falling as low as minus 40C  in defiance of advice from him own generals  made him a megalomaniac, the same way hitler declared war on america despite the fact that the american  military vastly outmatched him makes him a megalomaniac, what hitler didnt not know was that he had been provoked into athat declaration of war on america in order for the americans to have an excuse to crush germany's war machine once and for all, now turning to ojukwu - as  the son of a man who fraternised with the british colonial elite, (his father was a personal friend of the former colonial governor general of nigeria) he must have known that britain had a vested interest in ensuring that power remained in the hands of the north, after all they (the british) orchestrated the rigging of the 1959 elections in order for this to be the case, why then would he put the lives of millions of his own people in jeopardy in order to realise his political ambitions? only a deranged individual suffering from a mental disorder would do such a thing, this is the reason he embarked on this war, he couldnt imagine himself playing second fiddle to a northern puppet which i understand but why not ensure that you are militarily equipped to embark on this war first, its like two people playing a game of chess and the other one sees that his opponent is winnning, what does he do, consider that the odds are against him and accept defeat, no he overturns the chess board - insisting that if he cant win - nobody will win - that is ojuwkw's mentality, however being a cunning and wily man he convinced the igbos that he was their messiah, that he had come to deliver them out of the hands of the blood thirsty northerners and they bought it, to be honest i cant blame igbos during that period for not seeing through Ojukwu's opportunism because of the pogroms, however i do blame him for ploughing on with a war in which he was so devastatingly outmatched, furthermore britain was determined not to loose the oil fields to the igbos particularly with someone like Ojukwu at the helm of affairs as this would spell doom for the plan to continue to control the economic and political destiny of the country.  these are all the things Ojuwkwu knew but carried on with regardless.  The man should not be lauded as a hero but exposed for the power crazed individual that he was.  definition of megalomaniac:  

"Megalomania is an unrealistic belief in one's superiority, grandiose abilities, and even omnipotence. It is characterized by a need for total power and control over others, and is marked by a lack of empathy for anything that is perceived as not feeding the self."

Dede1 it is inferiority complex that will kill you, you are incapable of putting forward a coherent argument because you are motivated by anger, and misplaced emotions, do you feel betrayed by the loss you suffered at the hands of this your fraudulent hero you bow and scrape before aka "dim" Odumegwu Emeka Ojukwu, wake up and smell the coffee, we are no longer living in the dark ages, we are now in the information age, Ojukwu succeeded in hoodwinking a generation of igbos who didnt know any better, he cannot get away with it any longer, he is no hero, he failed his people, he did not have the decency to do the honourable thing and lay down his life for his people like other great leaders the world over have done since time immemorial, i will not glorify his name like you, i insist on using my brain, the man used his people to embaark on a suicide mission.

we have had true revolutionary heroes in africa and ojukwu can never be mentioned in the same breath as the following:

fela anikulapo kuti

gani fawehinmi

kwame nkrumah

thomas sankara

nelson mandela

patrice lumumba

sekou toure

robert mugabe


notice Ojukwu can NEVER EVER be mentioned in the same breath as any of the above people, Eziachi and your brainwashed brigade - go hang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eziachi:
I learn new thing every day, as in your warped opinion, the far less minority now tend to carry the vote in your best of wisdom. 35 million gullible and idiotic Igbo men against your one man Igbo hero-Tochukwu Ezukanma. A name you don't even know if it's real or not and I hope your Igbo hero will have the gut to express his wonderful wisdom among his family members, let alone his town folks and then live the next day to tell you more of his wisdom. Ojukwu betrayed the Igbo’s, you told us, and I wonder who is exactly this I Igbo’s you are crying your eyes out for? That must include me I suppose. Nice of you to care so much about us gullible and betrayed Igbo’s who can't recognise their ignorance and needed you the messiah to remind them. You deserve a chieftaincy title for that.

But you fool no one. Hypocrites always shed crocodile tears and cry more than the bereaved. They will kill you in the bush and jumped out of the road to organise your funeral and carry the casket themself.

Eziachi you are beyond help - you have chosen to deify this man who whose sole ambition in life was self aggrandisement, if you are happy to be made a fool of that is your prerogative, but for christ's sake leave those of us who refuse to bow before this fraud to express their heartfelt opinions, have you ever heard of a great leader who claims that he stood for the emancipation of his people taking the cowards way out, even Hitler who was demonised by america and britain did the honourable thing and sacrificed his life for his people, Tojo of Japan committed suicide like an honourable man after the americans dropped the atomic bomb on nagasaki and hiroshima claiming thousands  of japanese lives,  these are true heroes, not this fake self appointed charlatan, this man will go down in history as one of the worst leaders in the history of the igbo people, what kind of leader ducks out after leading so many people to their death, some fool had the nerve to compare him to mandela - yeah right, isnt that idiot missing out one important fact, mandela actually sacrificed 27 years of his life for what he beleived in, ojukwu where was his own sacrifice? 12 years in ivory coast plotting his comeback - give me a break, the man is a fraud.  the truth of the matter is Ojukwu is a megalomaniac, his upbringing made him believe that power was his birthright, his sojourn abroad in epsom (thanks katsumoto) and oxford only created delusions of grandeur in his mind, i have said that sending impressionable young black men to foreign elite institiutions messes up their minds, he tried to become an english gentleman and he was rejected, i beleive this was the genesis of his deranged megalomania - even Zik (who i do not admire either) warned him off. What Ojukwu in his impressionable mind at the time didnt appreciate  was that greater forces were at play in the nigerian situation, as an officer and a gentleman of the english establishment, how come he did not understand the treachery of the british, how come he could not understand that there was no way in hell the british would allow an igbo man to take control of the oil rich niger delta region when they had fought tooth and nail to put in place a northern oligarchy, people say he is an intelligent man but i question that because an intelligent man would know that the stakes were so high, the obstacles so stacked against igbos during this period there was no way he could win, unless he had a foreign ally, but no he ploughed on regardless and 3m lost their lives.

sounds like nigerian workers are getting shafted from another angle this time, multinationals are known for outsourcing jobs to countries where labour is cheap, labour unions are non existent and where human rights abuse is the order of the day - sounds like nigeria is the ideal place for a multinational organisation as all of the above  guarantees record profits for the businesses and massive exploitation for the people, this happens here in the UK, however the major difference is that the employees would get severance payments, this is the true face of capitalism which brutally exploits people.  

what puzzles me though is the decision to take on indian workers instead of using nigerians, i dont think nigerian workers would cost the company more, i just think that a decision was made at the top to give preference to the indian workers over nigerians, im not too clear as to the indian involvement,  Is Bharti the parent company with Ericsson as the subsidiary?  

Outsourcing is going on all over the world, however here in the UK you cant outsource an entire workforce and replace it with another group of workers without compensating the previous workers, the fact that erriksson is doing this and getting away with it, gives you an idea of how powerless labour unions are in nigeria, its tragic, there should also be legislation to protect workers in this sort of scenario here in the UK their are a number of laws which protect workers (although to a large extent outsourcing to foreign countries has continued unchecked).

this is why most multinationals prefer to do business in places like nigeria, thailand, indonesia, india, haiti where workers are at the mercy of the multinationals with little or no regulation over the labour market.

A man who was poised to cash in on power, grandeur and history if the "toil, sweat, tear and blood" of his people pay off, and prepared to run away if everything goes crashing, is not a hero, not even a leader, but an opportunist who gambled with human lives

Tochukwu Ezukanma i applaud you for being a courageous and honest igbo man unafraid to say what most brainwashed igbos are too s.tu.p.i.d to see and accept as the truth. This man Ojukwu used and betrayed igbos - and yet many continue to sing his praises like the pathetic gullible i.d.i.o.t.s that they are.

Ojukwu is an elitist, he never gave a hoot about the people - it was all about him and his relentless thirst for power, unfortunately he didnt care how many lives it would cost him as long as he didnt lose his own life in the process.

the reason he hasnt thought about writing these his so called memoirs until now is that what is left of his conscience continues to prick him, he knows that he is a charlatan and a fraud who caused 3m innocent people to lose their lives because of his delusional political ambitions.  I do not know of any true leader or man of the people who after losing out to an elite power structure, GOES BACK TO TRY AND FORM AN ALLIANCE WITH THEM - this man embarked on a suicide mission because of his thirst for power, many delusional igbos continue to worship and genuflect before this megalomaniac, they are totally brainwashed and browbeaten by the fact that he came from a wealthy background and studied at Eton and Oxford - my answer to that is - so what? Were other great revolutionaries educated at elite institutions? Did Chavez attend Oxford or Cambridge, Did Fidel Castro attend Yale or Harvard? if anything his foreign education instilled an exaggerated sense of self importance in him, im sure he continues to be haunted by the images from that terrible war and the needless loss of lives.

If this man truly stood for the good of igbos what on earth was he doing fraternising with the likes of abacha?

@kosovo if you are too young to remember the atrocious suffering that your hero IBB inflicted on the masses of this country and the draconian economic policies that he implemented when he was in power are  you also too young to read and research about this man,are your standards so low that you think it is normal for a nation of people to live in grinding poverty while one person makes off with £12b of public funds, is your moral compass so defunct that you can no longer tell the difference between good and evil.  

This man is evil, pure and simple, he is a murderer,  a former drug baron and a psychopath how can anyone in their right mind want this man to lead a country?  the fact that the US are backing him for 2011 shows you what they have in store for us,  bro stop fooling yourself, this man will wreak havoc on what is left of this country, the damage he will inflict will be so extreme that even your great grandchildren will feel the impact.

AjanleKoko:
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Imperialism101.html

Something to educate us all.

I absolutely love reading michael parenti's lectures he is one of america's leading left wing academics, very, very astute, outstanding and erudite, totally respect the man for his forthrightness and courage we need academics like him in nigeria.