₦airaland Forum

smoke9910:
Even if you showed them eko Atlantic or even wakanda sef, they will still think we live in huts. So leave ignorant people to their folly. They are not worth the effort of correcting.

What has eko Atlantic got to do with our ritualistic ways and minds? Stop taking consolation in few fancy building in Lagos and face the fact we are generally backwards.

They better do because no govt will watch them spend same amount some private uni spend and accept a shitty or lesser standard from them.

MightySparrow:
Islam! Women are just less than nothing! Divorce by text message so women can know mariital status! Wise women still follow Jesus.

Carnal religion.

Originakalokalo:
God is a Spirit. Anyone who will serve him must serve him in spirit and in truth....

Worshiping God must be done BY FAITH....since God is a Spirit that cannot be seen....

Faith is therefore integral to a Christian worship....

Without faith it is impossible to please God..

You have faith in an invincible being when you obey all he has commanded.... when you fast, sing, worship, give alms, love your neighbor.

These things mentioned are acts of faith without which one cannot please God...

When your faith is taken away, you are disconnected from God who is a Spirit.

The Devil, through some nairalanders, will ask you to give him an evidence of God's existence.... But God is a Spirit that should be worshiped by Faith....

Whenever I am being confronted with this question of evidence, I Simply ask them to take a look around them...

..and see the world and the vast universe.

What the Devil is trying to do is take away your faith and disconnect you from God.

....Serve God in spirit and in truth.

.....God is almighty who draws closer to you as you draw closer.... This is the mystery of fellowship with God....

I get to know him more daily and he becomes more real daily.

God bless you.

Most of the doubters are sellouts who have been kidnapped by the irunmoles( demons ).
They don't doubt bullet proof charm but they doubt God.

InansBobo:
I'm a Christian but I don't like this.
Thank God my pastor won't do such(I trust him). Crusades are for soul winning, you shouldn't be collecting money from people you are supposed to be preaching salvation to. Let them come to God first!

Bad if true.

Picture . . .

Elliot2:
u r very dumb! was it not on this forum we read about the poisoning to death of two children by their own father who believed that they were wizards,just cos a pastor told him? do u know the level of suffering these fraudulent pastors have caused people?

And you conclude that pastors are all evil ?
If that is your own meaning of smartness then you need prayers. For every one death you can trace to a "pastor" there are probably a thousand others traceable to babalawos but that doesnt make you criticize them.

And what's special about doing your job the way you were paid to do it? That's if they are doing it as paraded here.

dictators

Nice work.

Immaculatesnow:
my man daddy freeze Abeg finish these crooks called pastors there have ruined Nigeria

Check my signature to sell to me

Only those loyal to the dark world and the occult think pastors are the ones finishing Nigeria.

Did pastors waste our commonwealth?

VERDA:
I am tired of this ur back and forth,is there hunger in the land or not??is there wide spread poverty or not??, don't sit in front of your computer and assume things you don't know,my business takes me almost everywhere in Nigeria,from Adamawa to kastina to zamfara to Jos to kano,name them....so I speak from experience and what I have seen,Nigeria has failed its people,whether you believe or not is no concern of mine,the truth remains.

Stop that.

VERDA:
I am tired of this ur back and forth,is there hunger in the land or not??is there wide spread poverty or not??, don't sit in front of your computer and assume things you don't know,my business takes me almost everywhere in Nigeria,from Adamawa to kastina to zamfara to Jos to kano,name them....so I speak from experience and what I have seen,Nigeria has failed its people,whether you believe or not is no concern of mine,the truth remains.

If therebos hunger in the land that doesn't mean what is being done isn't being done. The govt is doing so much when we examine it very well. this has nothing to do with PDP or APC

VERDA:
Like I stated in my earlier response ,when the standard of living of the average Nigerian rises to the basic minimum and Nigeria stops being the headquarters of poverty in the world,you can come back and have this argument,until then enter any university and ask the students what they think about the university system in Nigeria.

That's your problem. You want to judge a system based on what selfish people think about it and not what is on ground.

VERDA:
Na wa for you o bros....the job of governments is to make life easy for the citizenry to enable society thrive,for some very funny reason you feel the government should be worshiped and praised for doing its job,which in Nigeria it has failed by all standards, when the standard of living in Nigeria improves drastically and Nigeria stops being the head quarters of poverty,you can come back and have this discussion with me.
Its either you do not stay in the country or your a government apologist with something to gain from promoting a failed system....just a reminder ASUU IS ON STRIKE AND STUDENTS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IN SCHOOL ARE HOME.

Where did I say or imply that govt should be worshipped? Stop do blind criticism borne out of popular opinion.
I only highlighted tangible benefits the youths are getting from the govt and you are here shouting about worship.

The case of ASUU is largely down to internal corruption in those schools. Some Federal Universities spend as high as N2m in subsidizing the fee of their students over 4 yrs and still can't compete in infrastructure with some private uni charging around that. So the right question on our lips should be "what is the money being used for"?
Let the ASUU men and women account to the last N10 what and what they are spending their billions of yearly allocation on. Govt can't keep pumping money into a leaking system.

VERDA:
Governance is in lay men terms a process by which people through effective systems HELP themselves and society achieve their/its potential...proper governance strengthens people who in turn strengthen the society.....

So what would you call the huge subsidy that goes towards education subsidy and more from the govt? Pls I am waiting.

OkaiCorne:
As for the early church, everyone's needs were met through freewill giving. Examples of these were shown in;

Acts 4 v 32-37;
32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.



When Paul was also admonishing the Corinthian church on how to give in order to meet the needs of other churches;

2 Corinthians 9 v 7;

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver












In the Old Testament, this was where God precisely asked for money to finance the needs of the Temple; This was not tithe, but a fixed amount levied on all male Israelites from age 20 and above

Exodus 30 v 13-16
13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs) an half shekel shall be the offering of the Lord.

14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord.

15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.

16 And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.


This clearly shows you how money was raised to maintain the Temple. And this requirement was specifically for the men of Israel.

So you don't know difference between charity and offering and tithes? Bible scholar my foot.

OkaiCorne:
And Matthew 23 v 23 mentioned tithe was a tenth of monetary income?

By the way, those other instructions were also a part of the Law. If the Law is abolished, why aren't you obeying those other instructions?

Tithe is 10% of earning or increase and as a banker I can't go copy 10% of spreadsheet work I did in the month into a flash drive and drop it in basket on Sunday. use your brain.

VERDA:
Travel out of Nigeria to countries where their governments actually govern in the interest of the people and see how far they have gone and their standard of living,then come back and re read this trash you wrote,I am sure you will be ashamed of yourself.
Nigeria has failed its people,not seeing this is being intentionally blind.

Oga there is a big differences between help and governance.

OkaiCorne:
Oh...so you now know more than God who gave the instructions on how to tithe?

By the way, was it tithe that was used to run the early church?

You that can quote scripture why not tell us how the church was run.

OkaiCorne:
If according to you, the Law is not abolished. What is the basis for holding onto tithing and discarding these other parts of the Law?

Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head — Lev. 19:27
69. Men must not shave their beards with a razor — Lev. 19:27
73. Not to tear the skin in mourning — Deut. 14:1
74. Not to make a bald spot in mourning — Deut. 14:1
76. To say the Shema twice daily — Deut. 6:7
79. To wear tefillin (phylacteries) on the head — Deut. 6:8
80. To bind tefillin on the arm — Deut. 6:8
81. To put a mezuzah on the door post — Deut. 6:9
82. Each male must write a Torah scroll — Deut. 31:19
108. Not to eat chametz on the afternoon of the 14th day of Nisan — Deut. 16:3
109. To destroy all chametz on 14th day of Nisan — Ex. 12:15
110. Not to eat chametz all seven days of Passover —Ex. 13:3
111. Not to eat mixtures containing chametz all seven days of Passover — Ex. 12:20
112. Not to see chametz in your domain seven days — Ex. 13:7
113. Not to find chametz in your domain seven days — Ex. 12:19
114. To eat matzah on the first night of Passover — Ex. 12:18
115. To relate the Exodus from Egypt on that night — Ex. 13:8
116. To hear the Shofar on the first day of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah) — Num. 9:1
117. To dwell in a Sukkah for the seven days of Sukkot — Lev. 23:42
128. To perform yibbum (marry the widow of one's childless brother) — Deut. 25:5
129. To perform halizah (free the widow of one's childless brother from yibbum) — Deut. 25:9
232. Not to sell the cherem — Lev. 27:28
233. Not to redeem the cherem — Lev. 27:28
234. Not to plant diverse seeds together — Lev. 19:19
235. Not to plant grains or greens in a vineyard — Deut. 22:9
236. Not to crossbreed animals — Lev. 19:19
237. Not to work different animals together — Deut. 22:10
238. Not to wear shaatnez, a cloth woven of wool and linen — Deut. 22:11
426. To set aside the firstborn animals — Ex. 13:12
427. The Kohanim must not eat unblemished firstborn animals outside Jerusalem — Deut. 12:17
428. Not to redeem the firstborn — Num. 18:17
429. Separate the tithe from animals — Lev. 27:32
430. Not to redeem the tithe — Lev. 27:33
436. A woman who had a running (vaginal) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after she goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:28-29
437. A woman who gave birth must bring an offering (in the Temple) after she goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 12:6
438. A man who had a running (unnatural urinary) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after he goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:13-14
439. A metzora (one having a skin disease) must bring an offering (in the Temple) after going to the Mikveh — Lev. 14:10
455. Observe the laws of impurity caused by childbirth — Lev. 12:2

It is a big shame you are confusing irrelevant scriptural facts for valid argument. In Mathew 23:23 Jesus only reordered that list containing tithe by putting the other items above tithe but didn't remove tithe at any point. Tithe idea can from God to Israelites in the old testament and Jesus only stressed the importance of other thing the pharisees where putting tithe ahead of.

OkaiCorne:
Read your Bible, the condition on which you can sell your tithe for money and buy it back is...

"If the place of worship is too far for thee"

Or would you prefer I quote it for you?

So as a banker I should pay tithes of cattle and when I pay it the church will then use it to pay electricity bills right?
Please listen to yourself very well.

OkaiCorne:
Read your Bible, the condition on which you can sell your tithe for money and buy it back is...

"If the place of worship is too far for thee"

Or would you prefer I quote it for you?

So as a banker I should pay tithes of cattle and when I pay it the church will then use it to pay electricity bills right?
Please listen to yourself very well.

OkaiCorne:
Where in the old testament did the Bible mention you can sell goods and give money as tithe?

If you're running to quote Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29, I'm sure you saw the part that mentioned the money should be used to buy cattle, alcohol e.t.c which should be eaten by the tither.

So to you what is the moral of selling cattles in exchange for money then taking that money elsewhere to buy cattle again? Why not just retain the cattles and eat them?

Saao:
maybe u read it and couldn't comprehend but I read it and my comment was based on what I read.
Again be reminded that Nigerians youths are not lazy but hardworking because we survived through education, jobs, etc without government help.

How can you say Nigerian youths don't enjoy govt help?
In fact govt is the father to most Nigerian youth.
In a federal uni for instance the student pays less than 10% of what goes into their education.
In healthcare the govt hospitals charge token to attend to you. Same goes for transport as oil is being subsidized. Even imported foods are paid for with subsidized Naira-Dollar if you understand the exchange system well enough.

Intact the money we spend is largely shared money by the FG through the civil service because most govt workers are just on payroll and don't work.

alBHAGDADI:
1. Tithing was never money in the first place,

It's so sad that people who have never read the Bible from cover to cover and only open it once in 3 months are now claiming to be knowledgeable concerning tithing. Who told you that tithing was never money? Who told you that everything about tithing was established only in the mosaic law and not before it?

Tithing is clearly 10% of ALL your increase. Abraham gave a tenth of ALL, and all means all, this includes money, gold, agricultural produce and any increase you get.

Genesis 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of ALL.


The Pharisee in Jesus parable gave a tenth of ALL that he possessed. That likely included Money as well because all means all, and all is what all means. Don't subtract from all.

Luke 18:12
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of ALL that I possess.

The book of Proverbs which is a book that encompasses the old testament and new testament also said we should honor God with our substance and with the first fruits of ALL our increase. ALL is also mentioned here which means ALL. This means if we get any monetary increase, i.e a new month's salary, we are to honor God with the first fruit of it which is 10%.

Proverbs 3:9
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of ALL thine increase:

Even Jacob when he promised to tithe, he didn't say it is only agricultural produce he was going to give to God. Notice how he said if God will give him BREAD and RAINMENT to out on, he will give him ten percent of it. That shows that tithing also included raiment which goes in line with ALL as used above. Or is raiment also agricultural produce?

Genesis 28:20-22
20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the L ORD be my God:
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


Stop judging tithing based on Mosaic Law alone because many tithed before that law. To learn more, read the below link.

https://www.nairaland.com/4938431/it-not-law-moses-god

So of I earn money as a banker or technician I must buy mint and Cummings to pay tithe. didn't the OT say we can sell the goods and pay money.

1StopRudeness:
U people always quote scriptures to suit ur explanation...u know how to use the death and resurrection of Jesus as a reference of what is to be abolished..please tell me why Jesus could forgive sins even though he had not paid the ultimate price on the cross?
Don't assume what Jesus didn't say...I don't care if u pay ur tithe or not...but what Jesus said clearly in Matt 23:23 to the Pharisees is that u can't leave other important thing and start shouting tithe..... he never said giving tithe wasn't important....or stop it
If Jesus didn't care about how much we gave..e won't rate the widow's higher than the giving of other rich men that gave out of abundance....we just keep overflogging this tithe issue...people will come and say it's crop they give in those days as tithe..
The era when most people farm is gone..some people now make casket...will the person carry casket to church as a way of giving...

Thank you sir. They are constantly trying to attack tithe.

oluwatobi75:
TWO REASONS:
1. Jesus lived in the old Testament and not until He died and resurrected did "The New Testament " come about. Didn't Jesus eat the Passover with them which was according to the Law?, and do we in the Body of Christ eat Passover?.... Jesus said "you SHALL KNOW the truth, and the truth shall make you free.." meaning there were certain truths not even yet revealed even while He was still alive but would have to be after His death and resurrection "

2. The place you're sighting Matthew 23:23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.".....
its very shallow and "dishonest" for someone to draw "Tithing " as a subject from this, the major message Jesus passed here was the inhumane character of the Pharisees, He reflected on their act of Tithing and not keeping the more important things of the, Law like "Faith, judgment, mercy.. "meaning He was addressing and correcting their character, He pointed out they tithe but yet are not better people... Shouldn't that let you know the communication Jesus is bringing??.....

More so, did you hear where Jesus said not keeping the most important things of the Law??.... still means that Tithing is the law as we've maintained and the Law has been abolished.

Jesus highlighted the flaws of the Pharisees by telling them about more weightier matters but never cancelled tithe. It was a reordering of the list and not cancellation of it.

if according to OP the law has been abolished, then will be bad if I disobeyed any of the laws like stealing, killing, and severing strange gods?

If Jesus in Mathew 23:23 didnt did em it fit to explicitly or openly abolish it then it isn't abolished. Tithe is very much alive.

If we because because pastors are living well then it means they are using our tithe carelessly and that warrants the stopping of tithe, then we might as well stop other things like charity because not everybody you do charity for uses it for productive thing's.

Daddy frozen thought.

restitution to me, is needed because without it life doesn't appear fair.

A generation that avoids faith but believe in God.
They want pastors to manifest like babalawos forgetting Gods way isn't like that.