₦airaland Forum

Missed her also

plaetton: But He has already asked a lot of people to kill their neighbors

Then that would be another god. Cos the God I serve doesn't turn his followers into killing machines.

[quote author=tpia@]^i meant it exactly as i typed it actually.

in the christian section, you can run wild while in muslim section, you are banned if you do so.[/quote]I guess the boko haram menace isn't just in the north, but exist in every muslim. I'm not surprised.

What do you expect the to do rather than to ban people who asks them sensible questions about their religion?

I just watched a video where I saw a highly respected muslim leader saying on one video that islam is a religion of peace, and in another video countering his the statement he made in the previous video.

Its obvious that from their leaders down to the least person in that religion are confused.

Religion of peace indeed.

wiegraf: ^^^^
You said no quotes, lol.
I never read quotes, but I'll give it a spin...

You asked me to explain evil... Not God's existence so I believe that a few chapters of the bible should help answer your question.

wiegraf: Ok, I couldn't really digest that so I hope I'm not taking this out of context. If the above is true, do you consider that just? If yes, can you tell me why?

I would give you another similar incident in the bible before I explain further.

[b]1 Samuel 15 from verse  Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel: 11 "I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions." Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

12 Early in the morning Samuel got up and went to meet Saul, but he was told, "Saul has gone to Carmel. There he has set up a monument in his own honor and has turned and gone on down to Gilgal."

13 When Samuel reached him, Saul said, "The LORD bless you! I have carried out the LORD's instructions."

14 But Samuel said, "What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears? What is this lowing of cattle that I hear?"

15 Saul answered, "The soldiers brought them from the Amalekites; they spared the best of the sheep and cattle to sacrifice to the LORD your God, but we totally destroyed the rest."

16 "Enough!" Samuel said to Saul. "Let me tell you what the LORD said to me last night."
"Tell me," Saul replied.

17 Samuel said, "Although you were once small in your own eyes, did you not become the head of the tribes of Israel? The LORD anointed you king over Israel. 18 And he sent you on a mission, saying, 'Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; wage war against them until you have wiped them out.' 19 Why did you not obey the LORD? Why did you pounce on the plunder and do evil in the eyes of the LORD?"

20 "But I did obey the LORD," Saul said. "I went on the mission the LORD assigned me. I completely destroyed the Amalekites and brought back Agag their king. 21 The soldiers took sheep and cattle from the plunder, the best of what was devoted to God, in order to sacrifice them to the LORD your God at Gilgal."

22 But Samuel replied:
"Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the LORD?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD,
he has rejected you as king." [/b] NIV

God hates disobedience...most Christians miss blessing packaged for them by God because of disobedience.

Also most people have met their untimely death because of disobedience.

Disobedience if you must know is a direct challenge to God and he would definitely deal with whoever disobey him.

Adam fall was as a result of the evil he committed in the garden of eden. And that evil was disobedience.

[quote author=tpia@]the main reason why debating with christians is more rewarding than debating with muslims is because with christians, you don't get banned when you run wild.[/quote]That's exactly what the first poster pointed out. They have no defense to make concerning their religion.

Most of them call themselves muslims but they can't endure a 30minutes debate against their religion.

Majority of them read the koran like a software license they just scroll down all the numerous pages and click I agree.

Funny isn't it? That's why its very easy for their leaders to brainwash them into believing that if you kill an innocent man who doesn't believe in islam, you would be rewarded with 7 virgins. Because majority of aren't deeply rooted.

wiegraf: The problem of evil, address it if you will good sir crazyman.

Now I would start with the biblical definition of evil and what God considers as evil.

[b]According to the Bible evil became a reality in the very beginning with the first couple (Adam and Eve as you and I know). Sin produces evil. Gen 2:9 The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God instructed Adam to eat of the tree of life and nearby it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that he was to avoid eating from or would receive death. Gen 3:5”For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

We find when Eve and Adam ate from the tree and God said they had become as one of us – “knowing good and evil. God would have eventually instructed them on evil but now they learned of it by experience, something God did not intend.

Later we see God comment on the spread of sin which resulted in wickedness in action and evil in thought. Gen 6:5 “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”

God had to judge the earth because of this pandemic of evil from sin. After the flood immediately offers up a sacrifice which is pleasing to the Lord “And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done” (Gen. 8:21)[/b]

Now from this passage, we can simply say that God sees disobedience as an act of evil before his sight. You and I are in the state we find ourselves because Adam disobeyed God.


Now to the scientific definition of evil.

Evil according to my dictionary can be defined as the following.

Having qualities tending to injury and mischief; having a nature or properties which tend to badness; mischievous; not good; worthless or deleterious; poor; as, an evil beast; and evil plant; an evil crop.
Having or exhibiting bad moral qualities; morally corrupt; wicked; wrong; vicious; as, evil conduct, thoughts, heart, words, and the like.

So putting the bible and the dictionary together we can simply conclude that evil is a bad omen that does nobody any good. And also evil doers would never go unpunished.

I hope I answered your question.

jidewin: Help me out on this one,besides Adam whom God chose eve for,could you point me any other bible character God chose a wife for?Thanks

God choose rebecca for isaac.

Delafruita: lol.av got plenty of love for the ladies..besides no guy has told me the message of salvation and even if they did,i'd ...........

Delafruita: besides no guy has told me the message of salvation

I don't believe that...I've preached to you about salvation an several occasions but you always prefer to make a mockery of it. You keep demanding for proofs and facts before you believe that the person responsible for your salvation actually exists.

Delafruita: and even if they did,i'd ...........

You'd do what?

Delafruita: thanks love.i'd keep that in mind

So when a guy tells you about salvation, you make a mockery of it...but when its a female you gladly accept her message.

I think I now know what your problem is.

Avicenna: On a totally unrelated note, you should visit my school zoo. The lions may not have your intelligence but you surely cannot dominate it. You do not have the strength (so therefore, the lion was physically advantaged by God to dominate you!) False.

You just exposed your ignorance here.

If humans don't dominate lions, then how come its in a zoo or cage controled by humans?

Delafruita: still have about 28hours to go in my sojourn to "christendom".so i'd not comment on the glaring loopholes in all your responses

Really?

Well 28 hours isn't that long...I would be waiting here for you.

My God can't ask me to kill anyone. So I don't need to answer that question

wiegraf: Which God are you speaking about? The christian one?

Yea the christian God.

Evil Brain: I'm not satisfied with your answers to mkmyers45's questions. A president doesn't have the power to prevent his people from committing crimes, god does. He could easily have made a world where people wouldn't want or need to sin and he didn't.

I'm sure that by now you should know that God gave is children freedom of choice. I came across a thread (Actually a video) started by Mr Anony where an Islamic man tricked a jew into joining islam, an then treathened to kill him if he denounces his faith.

God isn't like that. He gave everyone the freedom of choice. Its up to you to make the right choice.

So if you end up making the wrong choice, then you would have yourself to blame because you would be punished.

Evil Brain: Also, saying the earth is many centuries old sounds like a cowardly dodge. Is it billions of years old like science says or 6000 years old like the Christian creationists say?

You should know that I answered that question casually, so it means that I myself don't actually know how old the earth is. So there's no need for any insult.

Evil Brain: Let me expand mkmyers45's first question further: If god is omnipotent and omniscient, why did he put Adam and Eve within reach of the tree of knowledge knowing fully well that his boy Satan would convince them to eat from it. If he made man what he is, and he knew how the devil would end up from the beginning, and put the two of them in the garden with the tree, then sat back and watched man fall; is he not responsible for all the misery that has followed?

I think I can answer that question.

I would liken the creation of man to that of the titanic ship built some years back. Those who built it believe that it was the best of all ships in the universe...they loved it and treated it like a baby but in as much as the ship seemed safe to everyone,
It had its weakness.

Now you can't possibly blame them for sailing the ship on a winter frozen ocean. It was up to the ship to use the potentials deposited into it by its makers to sail successfully through the frozen ocean, but it didn't and like I stated earlier, it simply had its weaknesses and that weakness became a reality when the ship ended up in the bottom of the ocean.

Now God created man in his own image and likeness. God knew that man would always do what he asked because he was God. God therefore had to be sure that man doesn't just answer him yes sir simply because he is God.

He had to put man to the test just like he did to job in the bible.

The devil on the other hand is a being which God uses to tests the loyalty of his people. Job's case is a typical example of such.

So everything that happened to Adam happened as a result of his unbelieve and disobedience it had nothing to with God. He disobeyed God's command and paid for it.

Avicenna: Does God exist?
If yes, why?
If no, why?

Remember, no quotations. Just sheer logic AND if you like science.

God exists

Allow me to prove it with science

You must note that If a being exists, its explanation must also exist. And its existence is explained either by itself or by another.

Now for millions of people around the globe to including well learned proffessurs open websites, start seminars, open a tv channel just to support or oppose the fact that he (God) exists should be enough reason to tell you that he does exist. Because if he doesn't believe me people including you who made this post wouldn't bother themselves. People love to talk when this kind of issue comes up because they know deep down that something exists up there. They just want a proper conviction.


Also, take a look at the human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain is said to process more than a million messages a second. Have you ever asked yourself how possible that is without the help of a supernatural being.

Even scientists have tried over the years to produce a cloned human just to prove that humans are mere mortals, but guess what, they have failed and they would keep failing becaus they can never create what God took his precious time to create.

Secondly, the brain as you and I know fully well, functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

Have you ever asked yourself what powers this wonderful device to keep running without any form of malfunction, because you cannot possibly make me believe that such a wondeful device appeared into the body of man.

You must also note that animals also have brains...but what differinciates theirs from ours is that ours was specially created to rule and dominate.

This should be enough evidence to prove that God exists.

God exists and that's why.

mkmyers45: Are you sure you're up for this? 1. how do you reconcile the
concept of a loving god to eternal
punishment in hell.

Thanks for your question.

First I would use the world we live in to give you a favorable answer. Assuming you are a president and you love and cherish your people, would your love for them prevent you from punishing them when they fail to obey the laws you give them?

Would the punishment you give to them for the evils they commit portray you as a bad person?

How would you feel when people criticize you for sentencing a killer to death?

My God is a merciful God, and he has given us laws which we must obey. But that doesn't mean the he wouldn't punish you when you disobey him.

mkmyers45: if this god is all- knowing that some people will end up eternally in hell, why did he allow them to be born to end up later in hell, if he is love?

God's plan isn't to put anyone in hell...people end up in hell as a result of the atrocities they comit against God.

I want you to ponder on this question. How would you feel if someone kills your father, r a p e s your sister, doesn't ask God for forgiveness, but finds himself in heaven...how would you feel?

I'm sure you would start a rebel group in heaven calling for interested angels to join your little junta to overthrow God, because to you, his so called love would be like stupidity...cos you would definitely want justice for your loved ones.

You must note that as the world has a judiciary system by which all offenders are judged, God also has laid down rules and failure to adhere strictly to them would result in a stiff punishment.

mkmyers45: 2. how old is the earth?

Well, I can't possible give you a specific age...but I'm sure that the earth has seen many centuries.

Good evening

First I started this topic to answer the thousands of challenges atheists on this forum put up on a daily basics. For delafruita to choose christianity for 36 hours simply because he feels christians are reading the bible like a course note, then pour out answers based on what they read without any form of personal knowledge or independence, is a big challenge to christianity...therefore, I hereby challenge all atheists in the house to a debate session.

There would be no biblical quotations it would be just logical questions about what you think about christianity.

I would reply you without any biblical quotes as well.

Feel free to ask.

MacDaddy01: Their best debaters have all been caught lying on video. Dont expect much answers from them. There is no freedom of belief in islam. You can not marry a muslim girl as a non-muslim but a muslim man can marry a muslim woman.

Once sharia is established you are not freely allowed to publicise your non muslim religion

Exactly...then they would want us to believe that they are a religion of peace.

I do pray...even if the prayer doesn't last up to a minute, its still a prayer and I believe that God has answered it.

wiegraf: Sad truth, evil is subjective. It's a mental construct only reasonable to beings with intelligence like you and me.

Obviously I don't think spirits etc exist.

Saying some intelligence created the universe actually complicates stuff, what created the complex being in the first place? What is god to you anyways?

And despite you being crazy, this thread does not have the usual astronomical levels of #insult many other threads have.

You still didn't prove to me that God doesn't exist.

ifeness: We certainly are not alone in the universe. But it is right to say our planet has existed for millions of years contrary to what the christian bible said. The bible was written based on accounts written in other books. Check out "The epic of Gilgamesh" "The book of enki and enlil" "THE SUMERIAN TABLETS" even the book of ENOCH which was removed from the bible because it proved that there are extra terrestrial out there. What happened to the dinosaurs? why are there no dinosaurs in the holy bible?

You simply haven't proven any thing to me...all those books you put up there were all written by humans who possible felt that simply because they couldn't find any visible proof to convince them that God exist, they decided to counter the bible.

Haven't you ever asked why they didn't counter the koran, or the buddist religion, or other religions...why did they choose to counter christianity. I would answer that for you. Its because christianity is the one true religion, that's why the devil keeps sending scores of his followers to plant confusion in their mist.

Now back to those books, If I must ask, who were the authors of those books...I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they would be a bunch of atheists possibly from our generation. They are people like you who after finish reading the bible, bring out passages and pretend to do research with them...they go on to open websites and start decieving weak christians and other intending ones, by tellin them that there is no God.

Therefore, if you believe in all those books simply because it counters the bible, and you feel that christians cannot prove to you that their God exist,

Then allow me to believe the bible which has given me much facts to prove that there is a creator...everyone is entilted to his own believe about the universe.

Delafruita: therefore,"spiritual" experience is subject to interpretation and such interpretation is done as to suit the different religious groups.
mind you,voodooist dont tag their "experience" as been demonic.they believe its evidence of the presence of their deity.

Yea...just as they tag it as evidence of their deity, we also tag ours as the presence of God.

ifeness: we have not reached the level of asking what ones are the positive and negative extra terrestrial. The God of the bible is clearly an evil one because he aided killings,blood sacrifices and terrible deeds in the bible. I can't say much on that because it will get Christians confused. The fight is between the malevolent and benevolent forces in the universe.

Only a few people on the planet have got the access to the truth or knowledge. That is why they are called secret societies. Knowledge is power and secret knowledge is more power

And if I may ask, where did they get their knowledge about the universe from?

Nice article...I enjoyed it

frosbel: [MANY CHRISTIANS] demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. … I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. "Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom? "Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon?
Kurt Vonnegut, "Cold Turkey," In These Times

Funny but true

cyrexx: so are we safe to say that religions in the final analysis boils down to humans and their experience with their imaginary Friend up there?

I wouldn't use the word imaginary because I believe that there's a being up there.

If evil and wickness exist in the world, then you must know that good also exist.

If evil spirits possesses people and they get delivered by children of God, then God himself also exist.

If satanists believe that a human can astral project into the realm of the spirit, then I believe that God can also show his children a glimpse of paradise.

If you believe that magic, witches, wizards and all forms or dark arts are real, then you must also believe that the opposite side of that coin also exist.

If people comit murder, r a p e, fraud etc, and make you believe it was the devil that made them do it, then you must know that there's someone up there who wants you to do good.

If you claim that there's no God, and that religious fanatics are just creating an imaginative being in their minds where they can find solitude, then how do you explain the creation of the universe...it didn't just appear...it was created by someone.

I can go on and on to prove to you that someone actually exist up there, its just up to you to believe it or not.

Delafruita: your experience isnt peculiar to christianity.same happens in many other religions.people expect to be uplifted whenever they do "things of the spirit".its common in voodoo likewise rastaferianism has it as one of its principles for adherrents to "get high" so as to "feel the presence of I and I"

Note, people in the occultic world would also experience similar presence just like you stated above...but they interprete it to being the presence of the devil or other demonic beings.

Here in christanity we define such experience as the presence of christ.

Acidosis: #just wondering

Is the work of a Bishop different from Pastors, Evangelists and Apostles? Did Jesus ever called anyone Bishop?

Why do Christians in the Pentecostal churches rate that name so high, forgetting the fact that the greatest men of God of all time mostly are Evangelists. An example is Evangelist Reinhard Bonnke.

A bishop means "an overseer," originally the principal officer or pastor of a local church, but later evolved into a position of supervision over multiple churches. "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work" (1 Tim. 3:1).

A Pastor is generally a minister and spiritual overseer of a church congregation — the same as an elder or bishop. Pastor was probably not intended to be as much a title, as it was an adjective to describe what he does. A pastor literally means "shepherd," a metaphoric description of one who cares for and leads a flock of God's sheep. One of five office gifts described in Ephesians 4:11.

The reason why people mix up both officies today is that today's christianity is all about money...most people (pentecostals to be more specific) claim to have God's calling when deep down their main motive is the offering box.its so sad that most people who call themselves pastors don't even know the definition of a pastor.

They force their members to praise them (eg Rev King) because they have little knowledge of the scriptures...they see pastoral duties as a means of enriching themselves and chasing women...and spend time teaching people that God is a money doubler instead of the salvation he asked us to focus on like in

Philppians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

ifeness: Was he a black dude?

No. I didn't actually see him, I felt him; so I can't really say if he was black or white.

But wait a minute, what's with you and Jesus skin colour? So you haven't gotten over this skin colour issue?

Delafruita: you experienced his presence?lol

Yea I did

mkmyers45: ermm can you describe the presence?

I've posted my experience here before...it happened a few years back...I use to be the wheelbarrow type of christian (I.e if you don't push me to church, fellowship, prayer meetings etc I won't go). This continued for years until one particular brother in the lord...brother Abel took up my case. He followed me up and ensured that I remain focused in the lord.

At first, I saw him as a pest and tried avoiding him severally. But gradually, I developed this interest in him...we became close, and I began to take the things of God more seriously.

To cut the long story short, he asked me to take the message in one of our prayer meetings...I was very angry and objected instantly, but with time I told myself, I can actually do this...the day finally came for me to take the message, and after praying to God for guideance, I took it.

After the message, I noticed something unusual...I suddenly felt very happy, I felt like singing it was as if I've be inhabited by a supernatural being...to be honest, I can't just explain it. That evening was one of the best ever I experienced.

I later drew a conclusion by saying...if at all there is a God up somewhere, as people claim, he visited me and this evening I'm sure it was him cos my bible tells me in

Psalm 11:16. You will make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

The lord lord's presence as stated in this verse is characterized by joy and happiness...so whenever you find yourself in such situation after serving him, then know that he has accepted you. And your spirit would acknowledge him.

Never r a p e d any girl before.

Sweetnecta: so let your charity begin at home you crazyman!

only crazyman can understand the absurdity of the op.
normal christians didnt, it has to be the crazyman that did.

well done op; your best friend is now the crazyman because he understands you.

anyone crazyman understands needs his head examined. crazyman is the adviser of the op.

Why are you so obsessed with my name

fluid26: I am currently thinking of proposing (not marriage o! ).

Umm, how do we define/represent that?

Same here

Delafruita: if indeed you believe in facts,you wont believe in a jesus for who no facts support his existence

I've experienced his presence before...I feel that's enough for me to believe that he exists.