₦airaland Forum

Jewessgratitude:
That is a divine spiritual exercise that took place on Gods order, so you can't see it. Just believe by faith that its an automatic thing that has been programmed by the Hevenlies to occur at the death of Jesus or you want to search out how it works? This not science man. It is not like electric bulb where you can explain the science behind how light gets generated to the bulb to lit it up. This is totally the opposite of science and that is why scientists too are against or dont believe so many things about God, His existence and the things he created. Same ish you're having as you are coming at it with a scientific approach.

Relax your mind and just believe.

l don't think that's how it works, you can't just believe what you don't understand except you don't truly believe it. The reason l don't believe it is that l don't think that's the correct understanding of the bible. The bible does not say because jesus died therefore you automatically have the righteous nature and all you have to do is just believe this and accept this sacrifice. l understand you get this mostly from your reading of the epistles of paul, but l don't think even paul means this. The cross is an inspiration for us to take up our own cross and follow jesus to the father, l would give you a song that clearly brings out what the cross means in my view and in my understanding of the new testament.


When I survey the wondrous cross
On which the Prince of glory died,
My richest gain I count but loss,
And pour contempt on all my pride.

O the Wonderful cross,
bids me come and die,
that l may find to truly live.

See from His head, His hands, His feet,
Sorrow and love flow mingled down!
Did e’er such love and sorrow meet,
Or thorns compose so rich a crown?

Were the whole realm of nature mine,
That were a present far too small;
Love so amazing, so divine,
Demands my soul, my life, my all.

Blackpearlous:
The principles of the kingdom yes we must live by it because we are of the kingdom first. To enter the kingdom you must be of faith in his son. Yes

Yes by his blood

Building on sand and not rock is believing in him.

His parables of the kingdom is that the kingdom is valuable and you should listen to him..

I try

lol nice one

Blackpearlous:
what did the son say that we should listen to

1) That the kingdom of God is a reality on earth already in our midst and we must begin to live by its principles.

2) That he jesus has established this kingdom by his blood. And from that time on something has happened in the earth and this understanding must determine how we live our lives in this world.
Because the so called crowns of gold which men fight for in this world in a game of thrones are nothing but perishable crown of thorns in the eyes of God because the only true leadership is in service.

Mark 10v45
The son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.

This is true might and kingship in the eyes of God.

3)That the sermon on the mount in matthew 5 should be taken seriously if you want to build your house upon a rock and not sand.

4)That his parables about the kingdom of God are true.

Blackpearlous:
what did he say he wants

He said you should listen to his son.

Blackpearlous:
Because that's the foolish thing God did, spoke about his son coming and said that's his requirement nothing more believe in his son and you will have life, kinda silly when you think of it logically but since God said that's just what he wants that it's more than enough for him, fine by me

Except that that's not just what God said he wants.

Ostrogoth:
John 6:28-29 says, "Then they said unto Him, 'What shall we do that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He sent.' "
The gospel of the kingdom of God is also summarized into John 3:16 because there is no way you get into the kingdom of God without eternal Life which is a free gift of God according to John 3:16.
Jesus taught those who were under the law, today if you are really saved and have the Spirit of Christ within you, you'll find that you forgive people no matter how angry you were. I personally have experienced this many times. I've found myself praying for safety and blessing for those who hate me most.
The only commandment Christ gave us when He was going is the commandment of love (John13:34-35, John 15:12-17, 1 Corinthians chapter 13, etc).
As the op has rightly pointed out, we live in righteousness by the nature and Spirit of God within us as pointed out in Romans 8.

l agree.

Ostrogoth:
John 6:28-29 says, "Then they said unto Him, 'What shall we do that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He sent.' "
The gospel of the kingdom of God is also summarized into John 3:16 because there is no way you get into the kingdom of God without eternal Life which is a free gift of God according to John 3:16.
Jesus taught those who were under the law, today if you are really saved and have the Spirit of Christ within you, you'll find that you forgive people no matter how angry you were. I personally have experienced this many times. I've found myself praying for safety and blessing for those who hate me most.
The only commandment Christ gave us when He was going is the commandment of love (John13:34-35, John 15:12-17, 1 Corinthians chapter 13, etc).
As the op has rightly pointed out, we live in righteousness by the nature and Spirit of God within us as pointed out in Romans 8.

The teachings of jesus are for those who want to be his disciples as well as all those who are hoping for the kingdom of God on earth, it wasn't just for those who were under the law. The ability to forgive your enemies is in every one who wants to, and the spirit of christ is the power behind the teachings of christ which are the universal laws of God inbuilt in every one and accessible to anyone who hungers and thirst after righteousness.

Ostrogoth:
John 6:28-29 says, "Then they said unto Him, 'What shall we do that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He sent.' "
The gospel of the kingdom of God is also summarized into John 3:16 because there is no way you get into the kingdom of God without eternal Life which is a free gift of God according to John 3:16.
Jesus taught those who were under the law, today if you are really saved and have the Spirit of Christ within you, you'll find that you forgive people no matter how angry you were. I personally have experienced this many times. I've found myself praying for safety and blessing for those who hate me most.
The only commandment Christ gave us when He was going is the commandment of love (John13:34-35, John 15:12-17, 1 Corinthians chapter 13, etc).
As the op has rightly pointed out, we live in righteousness by the nature and Spirit of God within us as pointed out in Romans 8.

l have nothing against John 3v16, and there is nothing in john 3v16 that contradicts what l'm saying. Like you rightly said the gospel of the kingdom is included in John 3v16 but john 3v16 itself is not the summary of the gospel like many Christians believe today, rather you have to take all 4 gospels as a whole package.

Ostrogoth:
John 6:28-29 says, "Then they said unto Him, 'What shall we do that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He sent.' "
The gospel of the kingdom of God is also summarized into John 3:16 because there is no way you get into the kingdom of God without eternal Life which is a free gift of God according to John 3:16.
Jesus taught those who were under the law, today if you are really saved and have the Spirit of Christ within you, you'll find that you forgive people no matter how angry you were. I personally have experienced this many times. I've found myself praying for safety and blessing for those who hate me most.
The only commandment Christ gave us when He was going is the commandment of love (John13:34-35, John 15:12-17, 1 Corinthians chapter 13, etc).
As the op has rightly pointed out, we live in righteousness by the nature and Spirit of God within us as pointed out in Romans 8.

lf you believe in him, you commit yourself to live by his teachings. That is what it means to believe in him.

Why do you call me lord, lord and not do what l say?

Howitzer:


I didn't want to join in this conversation, and I still won't join,
I'll just keep observing and learning too..

But i thought to add this.

How does looking at a brozen serpent hung on a stick get you healed of a snake bite?

Foolishness, right?
Absurd, right?
But True.

The Preaching of the cross is foolishness to this world, but to us who have received the life of Christ, it is the wisdom of God..

Looking at a brozen serpent to heal you from a snake bite is not the problem here, the problem here is in what way does looking at it gives you healing.
Mainstream christianity says you must believe the sacrifice happened, that God placed jesus there because he needs a kind of sacrifice and blood to take away our sins, so jesus was that sacrifice. The way many people understand this is false if you don't explain it properly to them.
When the bible says look at the cross for your healing or paul says the preaching of the cross is foolishness they are not saying that jesus was a substitute for your sin so that if you believe this you become righteous.

They are saying the cross is a stumbling block to jews because the jews cannot imagine that a powerful messaiah ( son of God) would be on a cross, and so they cannot believe that God also wants to be seen as a king in this way, as one who shares in the suffering of his people.

The cross was foolishness to Greeks and Roman's because the Christians were saying jesus is the true ruler of the world recognized by God and seating at his right hand after death and not Augustus Ceaser who was a great conqueror who was worshipped as the son of God and as one who brought peace, this is foolishness to the gentiles because jesus did not attain status of power, instead he died as a slave and not just as a slave but a common criminal.

In Exodus, the children of lsrael were told to look at a snake for their healing so they could understand that salvation of God comes from the most unlikely place even from one hung on a cursed tree.

The message here is that there would come a time when the jews and the world would need the help of God and only in looking at jesus would they find it, but they wouldn't want to do that because he died on a tree( and cursed is anyone on a tree). But then they must observe and Learn the ways of God from this symbolic suffering if they want God's salvation and healing.

Hismasterpiece:
The gospel is ply means good news, that is, news so good that its just too good to be true. Yes Jesus preached the Gospel. The gospel is summarized in John 3:16.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

This is the Gospel. Since the beginning when Adam sinned and died, all men too began sinning and dying . Death, which is the consequence of sin, is both being spiritually separated from God (having a sin nature while alive & eternal punishment in hell after life is over), and all miseries brought about by sin (guilt, depression, etc).

But God, not wanting to condemn the whole world to hell (God judging us is not an act of wickedness. He is a just God, and must punish sin) sent His Son to bear the consequences of the entire world's sins.

Jesus wasn't born a sinner. He never sinned and lived up to God's standard. But when Jesus hung on the cross, He took upon Himself the curse of the law, He took upon the sins of the whole world on our behalf.

What makes His sacrifice superior to all others is the fact that He was God, and He was innocent.

God condemned Jesus, so He wouldn't have to condemn us. So, if anyone puts their faith in Jesus, such a person is made part of Jesus. All His righteousness, holiness, perfection is attributed to such a person. All that persons sins will be forgiven, and no further sacrifice would be needed to appease God's wrath when such a person sins, because His wrath has been fully borne by Jesus.

Whoever believes in God will have eternal life. Eternal life, according to Jesus, is not just living forever in Heaven, but knowing and having intimacy with God the father and Jesus. John 17:2-3.

In summary, judgment has been taken on your behalf, and by believing you are made right with God.

John chapter 3 is the gospel from Jesus's perspective. The book of romans chapters 1-8 is the gospel from Paul's perspective except that Paul went deeper to explain things in detail.

Jesus wasn't talking about God forgiving us when He said forgive and you will be forgiven. What He simply meant is that we should all treat people the way we want them to treat us; we should give people what we want them to give us.

What He meant by our righteousness exceeding that of the scribes and pharisees was this: The scribes and pharisees were self-righteous and thought that they were right with God by observing the law, but as I have already said, such righteousness doesn't count before God. So, we are to have God's kind of righteousness, the one He attributes to all who believe in Him. (Believing in Jesus is the same as believing opinions God. John 12:44).

All those other things you pointed out are just His teachings. The Gospel is His birth, death and resurrection, done for our sakes, so we can all be made right with God.

Where did jesus say John 3v16 is his gospel? why do you take that as his gospel and not part of his teachings as well?
What about Mark 1v15.
And jesus said the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe the gospel.
The gospel of jesus was the gospel about the kingdom of God, not specifically john 3v16.
jesus said we must forgive so that God would also forgive us, that was jesus teaching on how to receive forgiveness.

The cross of jesus is not primarily about removing your sins, it is to inspire you to deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow him.
This was the teaching of jesus himself about the cross and about following him.
We dwell too much on the epistles of paul, rather than reading the gospels first.
lt is true that with jesus giving himself up as a ransom to the Romans, for the safety of his followers( so they can preach the gospel) the kingdom of God was established and a new kind of lsrael was formed based on the death and resurrection of jesus, but this is only a part of the gospel which should inspire us and give us a foundation, this is not the entire gospel itself in my understanding.
The gospel that saves you from sin are mainly found in the teachings of jesus in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

shadeyinka:
The second world war was fought by several countries like Germany, Italy, Russia, USA, Britain, Poland, France, Japan, China etc. Nigerian deligates even fought at Burma

Now, if I wrote about the Battle of Burma (in 2019) according to the account of my grandfather (who fought at Burma in 1947), who did I copy (USA, Britain, Japan, Russia or China)?

I have asked you, link Moses to the Sumerians! It is easy to do: just search history, language and culture.

Moses most likely did not write all of the first five books of the bible, some of it are records from the time of Moses but some were written much later probably at a time when the children of lsrael were beginning to be exposed to other cultures. Also Abraham lived in Ur of the chaldeans, these people knew so much and were probably also influenced by the Sumerian civilisation which had fallen at the time. The myths from Sumeria, Egypt, etc were all common myths of the ancient world, so there may be some truth in all these stories, but their retelling by word of mouth through several generations may have changed the stories slightly.

Hismasterpiece:
Jesus was God's sacrificial lamb which took away the sins of the world.

During the days of the old covenant, if someone sinned they were to sacrifice an animal, usually a lamb, goat or bull, and this sacrifice would cover their sin and secure God's forgiveness for a while, but when they sinned again, they would have to appease God's wrath by carrying out another sacrifice. Read Hebrews 9-11.

So, when Jesus hung on the cross as God's own sacrificial lamb for the sins of the entire world, He took upon God's judgment for sin and made salvation available to the whole world. His sacrifice doesn't just cover sins like the former covenant, but it takes sins away... All records of it for all who receive it.

Salvation entails righteousness, justification, forgiveness, health, peace with God, etc.

Jesus said, and all over the new testament it is reiterated that the only way to receive anything from God is by believing. He said that if anyone believes in Him, he is not condemned. John 3.

So, to answer your question, the death of Jesus doesn't make you righteous, but believing in the Gospel of Jesus (that He is the son of God, was crucified for your sins, and was resurrected to newline) is what makes you righteous in God's eyes. Romans 3. Romans 10.

The only righteousness that counts to God is His own Righteousness, the Righteousness of faith, that is, His Righteousness which is imputed to all who believe in Him. Romans 10.

Righteousness is simply being made right with God or being at peace with Him.

Satisfied?

Good, at least unlike the others you gave an answer to my questions.
l agree that the death of jesus alone doesn't make you righteous, but believing in the gospel of jesus makes you righteous. l agree with all of these, but then what is the gospel of jesus? ls it all about his death and resurrection? what about his life? what did jesus himself preach as his gospel.
You say our righteousness doesn't count in God's eyes, but didn't jesus himself say that when you forgive others their sins against you, then God also would forgive you your sins against him.
Didn't jesus tell us that our righteousness must superceed that of the scribes and pharisees? that we must not swear or bear grudges? that we must love even our enemies so we can attain perfection like our heavenly father who makes his sun to shine on both the good and evil? what about the kingdom of God and all the parables of jesus? are all of these not the gospel of jesus that makes you righteous before God?

jiggaz:
Thank you .. Exactly.. I was confused at his questions,so that's why i asked him if he is an atheist.

Say you want to preach to an unbeliever, and he asks you how does the death of jesus make me righteous? what would be your answer?

jcross19:
Am Christian with the help of God some bible stories don't make any single sense that's why in book of Hebrew 11 talks how we should base on observation on faith.. "Faith" when that word is involves mean something is wrong but just accept it like that without evidence .

No you are wrong about Hebrews. The faith in Hebrews is not blind faith, on the contrary it is a faith of action. This is why the author goes on to list examples of heroes of faith.
All of those examples, were of people who changed their world and or families by doing the unusual because they hoped for something greater thereby creating it themselves.

jcross19:
according to the bible writer you can't base your knowledge only on the story of garden of Eden every tribe, religion have theirs how are you sure that the story is true. This is just selfishness.

Exactly, every religion and culture have their creation myth.

jiggaz:
At the Cross,the Lord Jesus who knew no sin became sin for us,so that we who knew no righteousness can become the righteousness of God in Christ when we believe in the death,burial and resurrection of Christ.

Are you an atheist?

l'm a seeker of truth and righteousness.

Blabbermouth:
You are taking a wrong path by believing you can discern the scriptures with logic or human reason. What happened on the cross was a physical representation of a conquest in the spiritual realm. If you are born of the flesh, you can never comprehend the things of the spirit. So what Jiggaz is trying to pass , you might not fully understand if you are not born of the spirit.
SHALOM!!!

ok so for you it is all spiritual? Explain this spiritual thing to me, maybe l would understand, even if l don't understand, at least for the benefit of those Christians who believe wrongly or who are confused.

jiggaz:
At the Cross,the Lord Jesus who knew no sin became sin for us,so that we who knew no righteousness can become the righteousness of God in Christ when we believe in the death,burial and resurrection of Christ.

Are you an atheist?

How does believing in a person's death, burial and resurrection give you righteousness? that's the question you are not answering.

jiggaz:
Didn't you read the article?

You didn't answer this question in the article. How does death on the cross remove the nature of sin? l am yet to hear any explanation of this from a Christian or how this works.

jiggaz:
Christ Jesus destroyed sin and redeemed us from the curse of the law.

How did he destroy sin? how did the death of jesus on the cross destroy sin?

jiggaz:
Lord Jesus... I thank you for your eternal salvation... Thank you Lord for making me see what really happened at the Cross... You are awesome Lord Jesus!!

What happened at the cross?

Vortex369:
Jesus' Soul, was a Piece of God.

So am I.

I am that, I am.

I am, that I am,

I am

You are in the spirit. For flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you but our father in heaven.

The story of Adam is simply the story of lsrael and her exile from God's promised land(God's garden) and by extension the story of man. Adam is not a literal figure and this myth probably goes back to our ancestors who ran out of Africa. The myth of Adam is most likely about the religous king( ruler of men) who could communicate with the gods.
Genesis 1 is a beautiful poem explaining in general that God created the world and created man in his image. Genesis 2 is a myth that tries to give a foundation to the story of lsrael.

Ladylite:
Wow am confused.... Pls jesusjnr is this truth?

l wonder myself, how does the cross remove the sinful nature exactly except as a figure of speech to say that we are dead to sin and now have the new life of christ so that we may start living holy?

How did jesus take away your sin on the cross? Many Christians say jesus took away sin by dying on the cross meaning taking away the sinful nature, and you are of the belief that accepting this sacrifice in some strange automatic way removes that nature.
But how does it work? how does the cross remove the sinful nature? And why must you accept that this sacrifice took place in order to receive this gift of salvation?

Janosky:
In which sense ?
Your claims seems to say that any person who reflects & copies Messi skill for skill,is definitely Messi.
When you reflect your Father (his spitting image) are you still your Father?

Elihu means "God is He", that man na Baba God?

Note that unlike Messi, the attributes of God are all part of God and cannot be separated from God. For instance God is Love and Love finds its source in God, God did not create love, rather love exists because God exists.
For example even when messi was not good at taking free kicks, messi was still messi.
But God has always been love in its fullness, and did not develop on his attributes because their objective existence is rooted in what makes God God.

Janosky:
In which sense ?
Your claims seems to say that any person who reflects & copies Messi skill for skill,is definitely Messi.
When you reflect your Father (his spitting image) are you still your Father?

Elihu means "God is He", that man na Baba God?

Except that God cannot be quantified in a box like Messi( a restricted single human being).
l am only going with what l see as the new testament understanding of jesus and all new testament writers seem to believe that in jesus the God of lsrael has come down. Take for instance, Mark 1v3, mark applies a quote meant for God directly to jesus. He does this not because he thinks jesus is God in a literal sense but that God is fully in jesus in a literal sense. l hope you get the difference?
The trinity as a concept is simply:
1) The God above us ( The Father and Source )
2) The God with us( The Son or true revealer of the father).
3) The God in us( The Father waiting to be manifested through everyone of us).

Janosky:
In which sense ?
Your claims seems to say that any person who reflects & copies Messi skill for skill,is definitely Messi.
When you reflect your Father (his spitting image) are you still your Father?

Elihu means "God is He", that man na Baba God?

We are almost saying thesame thing my man, the trinity is just a concept, it makes sense as a concept and not in a literal form.

BafanaBafana:
Bros you have not said anything

ok, l don't get what else you want me to say. You said l should provide scriptures to back up my claims about seeing dimly and l did.