₦airaland Forum

Amujale:
We are talking about something important you are talking about marketing.

Detoxify yourself from Abrahamic religious text.

And gravitate towards making our world a better place, get a good education, learn a versatile trade, does something to improve our great continent.

These are what we need.

Drop fakery and concentrate on reality.

Finally brethren whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there be any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy, meditate on these things.
Phillpians 4v8

Did the Roman's write this too? lf so, then the Roman's did a good job here.

sonmvayina:
It is a poem... Not a prophesy.. Written by David.. It is Israel.. Israel is God's chosen.. His inheritance..

jesus is like isaac, Joseph, and Moses in the bible. lf you look closely, all of these characters were key to lsrael becoming a nation in a way that required survival.

isaac for instance, if he was sacrificed by Abraham, then the promise would have been abolished and there would have been no nation of lsrael, but Abraham reasoned that God is able to raise him from the dead, and so he obeyed God. ln thesame way, the death of the messaiah jesus did not represent the end of the promise because God is able to raise him from the dead.

Also look at Joseph who was taken from prison and the grave to sit at the right hand of Pharaoh and supplied corn from Egypt to not only his brothers who delivered him to death, but to all of the world. Joseph was key to Israel's survival, but he was also saviour of the world because he delivered food to all. ln thesame way, jesus is saviour of the world because he delivers the true bread of God to the world by which they may have abundant life.

The similarities with Moses are just so many, but l am sure you get the point.

lf jesus is a fairy tale as you assert, then the writers were thinking of the Jewish fairy tales of how they became a nation, not pagan fairy tales.

sonmvayina:
It is a poem... Not a prophesy.. Written by David.. It is Israel.. Israel is God's chosen.. His inheritance..

jesus represents lsrael. The gathering of lsrael is to be by jesus.

Out of Egypt have l called my son.

This applies to both lsrael and jesus.

sonmvayina:
You really are a clown... First of all psalm is not a prophesy, they are poems written by David mostly to be recited in the temples and synagogue.. That particular psalm was written by David and given to the choirmaster to recite in the temple.. The Lord (God the creator) said to my lord (David)...... Isaiah 53 is not also a prophesy, it is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel was innocent all along.. The servant days will be prolong, he shall see his offspring (children).... That does not look anything like Jesus... Daniel encounter was a vision not a prophesy too... Read it in context..

So David is also a lord at the right hand of God? which means he holds authority like God? that to me would mean David is divine in some ways.

Your interpretation of lsaiah 53 does not make sense, l wonder how it makes sense to you. For God's sake, how is lsrael innocent of anything? lsrael like sheep have gone astray just like all of us, and the lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Now if l am to go with your interpretation that this is lsrael, wouldn't that make God even more unjust( according to your standard)? why should God lay the sin of the gentiles on an entire nation? How is that interpretation more just from God, than the christian interpretation that God rather laid the iniquity on one man, not an entire nation?

Daniel was a vision, and so what? that doesn't explain anything.

sonmvayina:
God never said the Messiah will be his son?.. Has men hammered their swords in to ploughshares?.. Is there peace on earth?... The list goes on and on.. Jesus did not fulfil even 1of the Messianic prophesies.. None...

Messiah means annionted.. Like David, Solomon, Samuel... Anointed with a special oil.. To rule as king.. Not to come and change God's laws.. Comprende?

Are you sure about that? what about the psalms that says.... You are my son, today have l begotten you.

sonmvayina:
Show me from the old testament where God said the Messiah will be divine or that he will die for sins, or any of the things you believe about Jesus.... I will wait..

My Lord said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until l make thine enemies thy footstool.

Psalm 110v1.

This shows that the messaiah would be divine.

l was watching in the night visions and behold one like the son of man coming with the cloud of heavens he came to the ancient of days...
And to him was given glory and dominion and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations and language should serve him.

Daniel 7v13-14.

This shows that he would be divine.

lsaiah 53 shows that because of the transgression of God's people he was cut off out of the land of the living.

He poured his soul unto death and made intercession for sinners.

Father Forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Luke 23v34.

sonmvayina:
The Messiah was from the tribe of Judah... From the root of Jesse.. Meaning he must have a human father since genealogy is transferred from father to son... Jesus is not from anywhere.. Since he has no father according to the story..

The Messiah was coming in to rule in a peaceful world... The new convenant God promised was a convenant of everlasting peace... Men will hammer their swords in to ploughshares and learn of war no more... Has it happened?.. NO.
never human sacrifice for sin.. This is paganism

jesus came to achieve that peace. That ldeal peace doesn't just happen overnight by magic.
The sermon on the mount teaches us how to live, so that the kingdom of God(kingdom of peace) would come. Sorry but if we don't live that way, the kingdom of peace (kingdom of God) would never come. lt doesn't come by magic.

sonmvayina:
What have you succeeded in doing?.. Absolutely nothing..
Isaiah 53 is about Israel.. Isaiah already told you time after time that the servant is Israel and the beloved is Jacob.. There is no controversy there.. Isaiah 53 is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel has been right all along.. Start from 52:12....read 41:7-8..the suffering servant is Israel...

All God desires is a contrite heart not sacrifice...
Christianity is just paganism.. There is nothing in Christianity that God approved of... Nothing..

Jesus also says l desire mercy but not sacrifice.
ln another place he says Forgive others their sins from your heart, and only then can God forgive you.
You my man, you are confused like many evangelicals about why christ died.
Christianity has some fusion of what you call paganism, but christianity is not paganism.
God certainly approved of jesus of Nazareth.

sonmvayina:
What have you succeeded in doing?.. Absolutely nothing..
Isaiah 53 is about Israel.. Isaiah already told you time after time that the servant is Israel and the beloved is Jacob.. There is no controversy there.. Isaiah 53 is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel has been right all along.. Start from 52:12....read 41:7-8..the suffering servant is Israel...

All God desires is a contrite heart not sacrifice...
Christianity is just paganism.. There is nothing in Christianity that God approved of... Nothing..

You said .....(lsaiah 53 is about Israel.. Isaiah already told you time after time that the servant is Israel and the beloved is Jacob.. There is no controversy there.. Isaiah 53 is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel has been right all along.. Start from 52:12....read 41:7-8..the suffering servant is Israel)...

The servant is not always Israel as a nation, but can refer to Messaiah sometimes( the representative of lsrael) For example in lsaiah 49v3-6(still talking about the servant called lsrael):

3)And he said to me, you are my servant o israel, In whom l will be glorified.
4)Then l said, l have laboured in vain, l have spent my strength for nought and in vain.
Yet surely my reward is with the lord and my work with my God.
5) And now the lord says. who formed me from the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him, so that lsrael is gathered to him.
6) indeed he says, it is too small a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of israel, l will also give you a light to the gentiles that you should be my salvation to the ends of the earth.


So if the servant is always Israel as a nation, how can lsrael in this passage restore lsrael? lt makes no sense. The servant here like in lsaiah 53, is clearly a human being who represents the nation of lsrael to God, because he is king of lsrael.

sonmvayina:
The Jesus story is fictional, there is no where in the old testament that a prophet prophesied that God was sending his son to come and die for sins, when he already gave a solution to the problem of sin.. God does nothing without first telling his servant the prophet.. Amos3 :7...the Jesus story is just a Roman fabrication.. To deceive gullible and feeble minds..

"if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and confess and forsake their sins, I will hear from heaven and forgive them and heal their land.. ". No sacrifice of any kind is required or necessary.. Just confess and forsake.. God will forgive and heal...

Why should he be waiting for us to kill a human being as sacrifice after he has warned us" thou shall not kill "..

I need answer...

FYI. The Jesus story come from ancient tales about Marduk... Marduk is the son of Enki, the lugal dimmer Ankia which literally translate to the divine king Of heaven and earth..

The Jesus story is fictional, there is no where in the old testament that a prophet prophesied that God was sending his son to come and die for sins, when he already gave a solution to the problem of sin.. God does nothing without first telling his servant the prophet.. Amos3 :7...the Jesus story is just a Roman fabrication.. To deceive gullible and feeble minds..

lsaiah 53, he was bruised for the transgression of my people.


if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and confess and forsake their sins, I will hear from heaven and forgive them and heal their land.. ". No sacrifice of any kind is required or necessary.. Just confess and forsake.. God will forgive and heal...

That is a different kind of sin, not the sin jews sacrificed in the temple for, which was for unintentional collective sin.

Why should he be waiting for us to kill a human being as sacrifice after he has warned us" thou shall not kill "..

You don't understand what the sacrifice of christ means, and l don't blame you because evangelicals themselves take it out of context.

FYI. The Jesus story come from ancient tales about Marduk... Marduk is the son of Enki, the lugal dimmer Ankia which literally translate to the divine king Of heaven and earth..

lf the jesus tale came from anywhere, then it's most likely from the old testament characters like Moses for instance. lt is more likely that the tales are based on a real person who was actually crucified, but the followers had to explain the disappointment of the crucifixion because they thought he was the messiah of Israel.

Amujale:
Meek: quiet, gentle, easily imposed on, submissive.


None of which our ancestors are.

Our ancestors are magnanimous, difficult to approach with aggression, assertive.

Can you see that their's a huge disparity.

[b]The Abrahamic religions [/b]are teaching us to become defenseless, helpless and weak, whilst our ancestors are teaching us to be magmanimous, diffucult to approach with aggression and whilst retaining assertiveness.

lol, ok.
so which one bears good fruits? our ancestors with all of their aggression where did it lead them to?

The concept of the meek inheriting the earth, is not a teaching of the abrahamic religions but of christ. lnfact if you want to be aggressive, the Abrahamic religions have a fair dose of that.

What about the parable of the good samaritan? that is a parable of brotherhood that cuts across tribe, race and religion, are you against that too?

The moment you begin to see beyond so called Abrahamic religion, but look at the teachings of christ for what they are and how they apply across boundaries, you'll see that our ancestors themselves may have believed some of those general principles as well.

Amujale:
.

Firstly, it doesnt matter what i believe, eventhough i will say tell you what i believe, and that is the powerful and consistent will inherit earth; all the evidence suggest that W.E.B Dubois was onto something in that quote.

Furthermore, we all need to put away our false differences and start to work for our great continent.

The are no conflict of interest in the African psyche once we remove the cancer that is Abrahamic religious ideologies.

The powerful and consistent? Meekness does not indicate lack of power or inconsistency, it only indicates humility.
lf that's the interpretation of that your author(from whom you shape your worldview basically), then l have to ask are you sure this your author knows what he is talking about?

Amujale:
Lets focus our attention on sercular history, here is a quote from W.E.B Dubois:

"If there are anybody in the outside world who thoroughly believes that the meek shall inherit the Earth, they have not often let their presence be known"

What does that mean? you don't agree the meek would inherit the earth?

Amujale:
Genuine research.

Dr Cheikh Anta Diop was a Senegalese historian, antropologist, and physicist who studied the origin of humanity and pre-Abrahamic religious African culture.

Dr Ivan Sertima was a Guyanese associate professor African studies at Rutgers in the United States, SOAS University of London, London University.

ok give me a few quotes and teachings of our ancestors from these books that inspire you and you think the world should know about.

Amujale:
You are conflating a few things, African history comprises of a stew that contains:

(a) secular history
(b) classified history.

Anyone can learn, study and explore secular history by ways of reading and studying genuine African historian material. i.e Prof. Ogundiran, Dr Cheikh Anta Diop. e.t.c

That is to say, take for instance Diop; he is the author of the book: "The African Origin of Civilisation"

Dr Ivan Sertima wrote the history textbook titled "They Came Before Columbus: The African Presence in Ancient America".

Get your hands on these books and similar type of genuine African historians i.e Dr Hendrik Clarke, Paul Barton e.t.c

What you are telling me is that certain historians in perhaps the 20th century wrote about african history and religious life, l am asking what are their source materials? where did they get their information from?

CAPTIVATOR:
When you say they are not separate, Are you saying Holy spirit is not a person ?

it depends on what we mean by spirit, is a spirit a person? l don't know if Holyspirit is a person or not, but l think thinking of him as a person causes confusion sometimes.

There are passages in the bible that suggests he acts as a person(probably whenever he dwells in humans and speak through them), at other times he is a fire that can be quenched when dwelling in us, at other times he is like a fountain of water.

God is simply a mystery.

CAPTIVATOR:
You are offside, always hiding under the " God " title, My point is: Is the Spirit of God the same person called " Father " ? Only then I can take you serious on whether it knows or not.

Father is the source of the spirit, the spirit proceeds from the father, so they are not seperate. The Father in my view can only relate to our world through his Holyspirit, because the Father is outside the entire universe. The universe itself came from the Father and he cannot dwell in the universe, but the spirit is like a fountain from the Father in the universe and in man. So the Spirit alone knows the mind of God and reveals from it as he wants.

Brandstudio01:
It's a Biblical principle. Wives submit to your Husband. Much more of a Law than an advice.

The bible also says submit to one another, so submit here may not hold the special meaning you think it holds. Humility is required of everyone, but then you must learn to read the bible properly.

Wives submit to your husband is a teaching, and it comes from that time and day, marriage today is not what it used to be then, because then women were of a lower class.

The guys who wrote the bible, though inspired, also revealed their humanity in these books, and Holyspirit allowed it, probably because he doesn't want us to worship these books.

CAPTIVATOR:
Let me call a friend of mine here first cc Barristter07 .

That aside, I have a question on that 1Cor 2:11 , Does the Spirit of God , which am assuming third person of Trinity know the day and hour of the end ?

The spirit of God is God himself, just an outflow of God with respect to our world and us.
So yes, if God knows the hour, and the spirit of God is able to search the mind of God( according to the same bible) then it makes sense that the spirit also knows the hour.

Amujale:
Artefacts are given their correct and accurate datings.

Then, these dates assist in allowing us to appear in the past, as far as the date of the given artefact.

And as such provide us with the ability to learn the type of technologies, explore, tap into, make something successfull out of e.t.c that are found to be there.

Learn of our ancestors commercial structural techniques that they used to tackle their times.

Most artefacts are in all reality an epistles of histories, both secular and classified.

Now lets overlook the classified because they are classified for a reason. Once we reach the levels of spirutuality that is required or maybe you are crowned King/Queen then the classical history will be afforded to such a person(s).

For now, the correct and accurate secular interpretation of an artefact is all anyone needs in order to ascertain successfull interpretation.

Learn, study and explore what the genuine non-Abrahamic religious secular narrative of any artefact might be.

Get access to our national archives and other international archives and learn, study and explore the many excavations that has been performed in your place of study.

You dont need anyone to tell you what history is, anyone can find out for themselves.

l asked for how the artefacts help shape our worldview and reality.
To be honest, l don't understand more than half of what you wrote.
For example if l ask, what are the basic doctrines of the buddha, l would be introduced to the 8 fold paths of enlightenment, as well as teachings on Meditation. l am asking for something similar about our ancestors.
Give me references to basic spiritual teachings of our ancestors.
This is why books are important, because if there were books of old writing about the likes of shango, ogun, and the likes, then one could be easily exposed to those ancient teachings, but now you say all we have are just artefacts?

Amujale:
Much of West Africa history has been proven to be true.

Artefacts are more reliable than a book, and their are artefacts out there that African historians have been able to date themselves personally; i.e Ogundiran, Cheikh Anta Diop e.t.c

Let me make something clear, nobody anywhere in the world is disputing West African oral history.

African history, is the only historical narrative in the entire world that has corroboration.

What do the artefacts tell us about spirituality and our existence? what do they say about sickness, suffering and death?

Amujale:
That is what i used to think until i found the writings of genuine African historians similar to Cheikh Anta Diop, Paul Barton, Dr J Hendrik Clarke, Wole Soyinka, Chunua Achebe, Nnamdi Azikwe, W.E.B. Du Bois, Fela Anikulapo Kuti e.t.c .

Aswell as, even more important still, learning, studying with an open mind and defending the genuine principles of our own philosophies in order that we may be able to successfully say to ourselves that we are contributing to our rich and relevant legacy.

Where are the African religious books that date back at least

Amujale:
The Christian bible has zero credibility or value therefore to find something that is higher isnt even much of a task.

Look out of your window and ask Joe of the street, does Africa have a history?

History is what everyone needs to concentrate our focus.

We need to get rid of the falsehood peddled by the Abrahamic religions and focus our attention on real history.


Question:

Where can i find real history, and what kind of history should really be of my concern?


Answer:

Africa



All the histories of the world are proof that the Abrahamic religions are fake.

Asian history tells us that the Christian Bible, Quran and the Torah are fake.

African history tells us the Christian Bible, Quran and the Torah are fake.

European history tells us the The Christian Bible and the Torah are both fake.

Since the Christian bible's motive is to attempt to replace real history with its fakery, its only advisable for anyone to peel away the layers of fakery and actual focus on the real history that Abrahamic religious text attempts to hide from us

91% of African history isnt being studied by Africans.

And yet, humanity began in Africa and then our ancestors went on to populate the rest of the world.

Africans are the first people to explore and populate all the other 'continents.

Africans invented paper and they invented the ink pen.

Africans discovered the concepts of literacy.

Africans discovered the concepts of numeracy.

African sailors are the firsr to have circumnavigate the seven seas.

African architects and engineers are the first to explore the concepts of aerodynamics.

Civilization began in Africa and then it proceeded to trickle out to the rest of the world.

Everyone currently living on planet Earth all descend from African ethnicities.

These are the truths we need to be mining and cease to invest our positive energy on the fakery coming out of the ancient Arabian fundamentalist and or Eurocentric ideologies that are designed to benefit other people.

Well l agree with you that studying African history would have been worthwhile, but we have very little in terms of books and documented religious writings, we have more of oral traditions rather, and part of the strength of Abrahamic religions is that they have written down books.

l don't believe everything in the bible is true because l don't worship the bible, however l appreciate a lot of the teachings of jesus, because they work.

lf a teaching is good, we know it by its fruit, this is the only proof we need. lf we try to follow the teachings of jesus without mixing it up with the rest of the bible, then we would make better societies for ourselves, consider this teaching for instance which few people take to heart:

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. ( Matthew 5).

Whosoever hath seen me hath seen the father.

Then consider this teaching from the author of john which is worth pondering about who God truly is:

No one hath seen God at anytime, but if we love one another then God dwells in us.(1 john 4v12).

Amujale:
The Romans invented the Jesus character out of the plagiarisation of older religious characters.

It has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that first century Roman aristocrats invented the Jesus character at the order of their Emperor so as to passify a militaristic rebel group based in the Palestinian region.

There were no Jews during the first century CE, Judaism was manufactured around the 14 - 15th century.

Anyone who states otherwise is a liar and faker.

The Israelite story is fake.

And yet thesame Romans even from Nero were killing the Christians? lt makes no sense my man, l know you truly want to believe this, but it is rubbish and not historical.

Lol if the Israelite story is fake, then how come we have the Dead Sea scrolls today dating hundreds of years before the first century which contain almost the entire old testament as we have it today? Were they also invented by the Roman's? l'm not sure you believe these things yourself or maybe you are just ignorant.

Maximus69:
Please tell Amujale o.

Romans fabricated the whole story themselves and at the same time they're the very ones who killed those faithful men according to the same fabrication!

I just can't understand why/how a right thinking person could be arguing so blindly!

Lol, if the Romans were to even create a religion, why would they create a religion that calls for dedication to a jew for that matter and not even caesar or one of the Roman gods?

Jews were Roman Slaves, yet Romans would then turn around to create a religon so dedicated to a slave? l wonder how some people think.

Amujale:
The Romans manufactured the Christian bible in order to passify a militaristic rebel group that existed in Palestinian regions.

Then the same Romans would use these same weapons of mass desteuction on their own peasants.

The Christian bible is false, fake and counterintuitive.

lf the Romans manufactured the christian bible, then how does it make sense that they in turn persecuted the Christians for 300years, throwing them to the lions and with a zeal to eradicate them?

Your theory makes no sense, you think about it and stop sprouting outdated antichristian nonsense that is hard to sell.

chrmn1:
I so much believe that the triune nature of man as described in the passage below is reflective in a sense of the nature of God. He made us in His image

1:
"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

The relationship between the Spirit of God to God Himself was likened to the relationship between the spirit of man and man himself in the passage below:

"For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God" (1 Cor 2:11)

2:
I believe that the relationship between Jesus/The Word and God Himself is akin to the relationship between the physical bodies of a man and the man himself. Look at the passage below:

"...who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person..." (Hebrews 1:3)

3:
I believe that the soul of man is reflective of the Father. See contrary to what we have been taught, the soul of man is more than mind, will, emotions. It is the veey seat of our personalities.

Body---Son
Spirit---Holy Spirit
Soul---Father

lf God himself is a Spirit, then how is it that he has a spirit? or are the Father and Word not also spirit?

Body, Soul, and Spirit are not three separate persons in a human being but make up one person, but the council of Nicea defines the trinity as 3 persons in One being, so how does your body, soul, and spirit fit into this definition?

Amujale:
The authors of Abrahamic religious text are liars and fakers, and were Roman aristocrats.

Stop thinking in the terms of Peter, John, Mark, e.t.c because they are all fictional characters invented by the authors of Abrahamic text.

You are not even dealing with what l provided. No one judges ancient texts like that, else we wouldn't be doing history.
lf you say the author of that text was a liar, who was he deceiving there? how could he be speaking of a peter that didn't exist then? what purpose would that serve seeing that people then could verify his claim?

what is sin?

ln Roman times, the cross was not only a symbol of death but of torture and oppression.
Dying by the cross was to die a death of dishonour and shame, so much so, that to the Romans, it was the worst possible death a man could die and part of the benefit of becoming a Roman citizen was that you can die by any other means but not the cross. To the jews, it was a curse from God because cursed is anyone that hangs on a tree.

So to the hearers of jesus, if one is to take up his cross and follow jesus, means one is prepared to follow jesus even unto death, shame, and stigma by the standard of both jews and gentiles. lt was a hard saying and not to be taken lightly.

jesus took on the worst possible death in the eyes of the people of his time, because many righteous jews looking forward to the kingdom of God and hoping that Israel be saved from the oppression of Rome also died that way, so that in every way he was made to become like unto his brethren, even the least of them in the eyes of the people.

Today the cross is a happy symbol of christianity, used in institutions like Red cross society to help the least of the brethren amongst us, this is how jesus has succeeded in turning the idea of the cross on its head.

jesus as a human being is God because unlike us his subconscious was fully God.
Holy Spirit became his very spirit, the way God intended it to be for Adam, so that Adam could rule the world as his vessel on earth, to keep the garden and dress it( that is to say rule the animals , land, and sea) because you have a soul which comes directly from my spirit.
Jesus is God, because he was not seperate from his spirit which is the spirit of God.
The Word became flesh simply means the Wisdom and Principles of God( Self Sacrificial Love) was manifested to us in Jesus to show us the way to God, or in other words to help us see God with our hearts.

There is no need for a trinity debate, only a pure heart that can see God.

Have l been so long with you Philip and you don't know me? whosoever has seen me, has seen the father.

Seeing God is not with the physical eyes but with a pure heart, because God is a spirit and has no form for us to see.

Amujale:
Historians have already determined the names of the authors of the Chistian bible, and their names arent Peter, James and John and they didnt exist in 50 CE.

That process is known as Euhemerism, whereby any modern character is transplanted into the past; sometimes using the names of real places and feed of the names of popular characters i.e Kings, Queens, kingdoms e.t.c

i.e The Moses character was invented by the Romans and euhemerised into the ancient Egypt scenario.

Moses is a fictitious character as proven in previous post.

There are no records of a Moses character in all of ancient Egyptian history; and the ancient Egyptians are probably either first or second to the Romans when it comes to keeping records; we know that because we've studied every single strand of evidence to that effect.

And that is the unanimous conclusion from all the authorities on ancient Egyptian Mythology.

i.e Dr Raymond O Faulkner, Dr Maulana Karenga e.t.c

Well ask yourself this, if people were to make up names for the gospels, why use names like Mark, Matthew, and Luke, why not household names like Peter, James, and John?
Also my question was about Paul( our earliest christian writer) writing about 20years after the event, how likely was it that he was writing about a fictitious james and Peter here:

Then after three years, l went up to Jerusalem to see Peter and remained with him fifteen days, but l saw none of the other apostles except james, the lord's brother.
(Galatians 1v18-19).[b]

Or this:

[b]Now when Peter had come to Antioch, l withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed. (Galatians 2v11).

The author speaks of peter as though the people already knew who he was.
Note that this letter is dated to around AD 50( 20 years after jesus).

Are you saying all of these are also fictitious,