₦airaland Forum

BafanaBafana:
Can you back up your claims with scriptures please? Seeing God dimly, etc
Plus you didn't answer my question

Now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now l know in part, but then l shall know just as l also am known. And now abide faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 13v12-13.

No one has seen God at anytime. lf we love one another God abides in us and his love has been perfected in us.
1 john 4v12

No one has seen God at anytime, the only begotten son who is in the bosom of the father he has declared him.
John 1v18.

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.
Matthew 5v8

How can you say show us the father, he who hath seen me hath seen the father.
john 14

Seeing God can only be with the eyes of your heart.
The father the disciples were looking for, was in jesus and not far away, all they had to do was see jesus better or in other words know jesus better to know the father.
Knowing is thesame as seeing with your heart or the eyes of your soul.

BafanaBafana:
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33:20
God was talking about seeing his face physically here.
And I will like you to explain if Jesus is a different God from the father, and if they are the same then why the difference in will, authority and power and purpose.

The father is not a human being or one that can be easily grasped by humans so obviously jesus is different from the father, but then the father means the source of all, and the God above us.
But thesame father has successfully dwelt in his creation(earth) in two different ways.
He was revealed in jesus (coming of the kingdom of God) as God with us, and he dwells in humans as God in us.
ln the age to come( which is to say the end of the world), the father would become known more fully to us, because just like jesus we would become like God ourselves and also having God dwelling fully in us.
Jesus is the prime example of what we would be in the age to come, an age where we would have power over death, sickness, and sufferings. Then we would operate more fully as the body of christ (the body of God). We would be working fully in love knitted together and united in our knowledge and understanding of God.
But now we see dimly as in a glass, we know in part and we prophesy in part ( 1 Corinthians 13).

Janosky:
"God wey no know wetin him Father know . Matt 24:36.

* Is Jesus Christ his Father ?
You belong to Christ,in turn,Christ belongs to God . 1 Cor 3:23. Compare Matt10:40. John 7:16.
When you receive the Messenger, (Jesus) you have seen the One (Yahweh) who sent him forth.
That's what Jesus is telling you in John14:1,7-8.

jesus christ is not his father but the father is reflected in jesus, there is no need for confusion.
The father cannot be easily understood or seen but in jesus, his fullness is reflected bodily.
ln that sense alone, jesus is God. This is why in Mark 1, mark takes a quote about God coming to his temple and john the Baptist preparing the way for him, and applies it directly to jesus as the God visiting his temple. This is because God lives in jesus doing what he wants to do more freely than ever.
For thesame reason Matthew calls jesus Emmanuel ( God with us). No prophet was ever called God with us. lt is important to distinguish between christ and the prophets and to know who christ is in order to understand God better.
Christ is not like any prophet, and no prophet was ever called Emmanuel, or the word, or one greater than the temple.

BafanaBafana:
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33:20
God was talking about seeing his face physically here.
And I will like you to explain if Jesus is a different God from the father, and if they are the same then why the difference in will, authority and power and purpose.

God does not have a physical face for you to see with your eyes, you can only see God with the eyes of your spirit either once you are dead or with your heart when you are alive( but dimly).
Your pure heart that knows self sacrificial love as reflected through jesus, already sees God dimly though not totally because it's still housed in the flesh.
Do you think God's face is physical?

AntiChristian:
If I am a killer and then became meek didn't I change?

Except if the God of the OT is different from that of the NT.

The writings in our religious books generally are ideas about God or encounters with God or perceived revelations of God.

lt is not about God changing, it is our view of God that is not perfect and it is changing.

St paul said now we see in a glass dimly, he also said we know in part and prophesy in part.

l Corinthians 13

AntiChristian:
.

In summary God changes mood?

Not God but our idea of God.

AntiChristian:
So their God is different from yours?

All cultures have their idea of who God is, but it is usually a dim view of God and not always very clear. However there are general principles deep in these cultures which point to God, some more than others.
In the new testament and some parts of the old testament, we have a better and more solid view of God( though still dim, but better).
ln judaism, God is creator of both good and evil, so he can command evil , he is unquestionable and very much like the one the people would see as a powerful king. The same idea pervades islam.
ln christianity there is a mixture of this idea with another radical idea. The idea that God is also seen in our sufferings crowned with thorns on the cross with open arms as a king reconciling the world to himself. That God is like the sun shining on both the good and evil people. That God is like a father who longs to see his disobedient son come back home.
So there are two major worldviews of God mixed together in christianity, because christianity tries to build on the old testament story.
So this is not a simple answer.

AntiChristian:
Just say those Bible verses are lies.

They are stories of Israel of old, every culture has their story and how their god gave them victory.

jesus did not sanction it, the jews of old did in the name of their tribal god who also led them into battle.

1Sharon:
No hell in the old testament !!

By hell in this context, he means the grave.

MuttleyLaff:
Yes, that is true and there is a bit more to that truth, and thats in the sense of that the Old Testament as a shadow of the New Testament, is the New Testament concealed, while the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed

It is a test of obedience to give up what you most value to God

the Angel of Yahweh is God, Yahweh

Care to share with us what the confusion is or is all about?

It served as a memorial to the Israelites for being saved from the destroyer when they were slaves in Egypt. It benefit God to later be the Passover Lamb for mankind

lsaiah 53 is about the Suffering Servant, Jesus

The promise to Abraham is a continuation and/or progression of the promise and prophecy to Eve in Genesis 3:15

l asked why did God test Abraham and you said it is a test of obedience, but if God should ask you to sacrifice your son , your only son, would you pass that test? lnfact why should God ever have to test anyone? what is the purpose of the test?

Lightangel65:
You will know when you feel it. The moment you see everything differently

Feelings? Do you accept that Holy Spirit also dwells in the chinese priests who practice meditation and feel enlightened?
No where in the gospels did jesus say you would know Holy Spirit by your feelings.

Lightangel65:
Yes the new is a continuation of old not a shadow. But guess what it's not just a myth or a story, I know I might not be able to conventional with your current mindset. But when you expirence the holy spirit you will know God is real

How do you know the experience of Holy Spirit?

sonmvayina:
I was only speaking from the Pont of view of the Jews, they claim the Torah (ie from Genesis to deuteronomy) is the divine laws of God and nobody whatsoever can change, alter or add to it.. Every other book in the old testament is just a foot note... Since everything in the new testament is against those laws, it is logical to conclude they are not of the jew or their God...

Well Christians only say the old testament is a shadow of the new, but it's a continuation of the story of God.
For example :
Why did God tell Abraham to sacrifice isaac? what kind of a test is that? ln the new testament, this is explained.
Who is the Angel of Yahweh in Exodus bearing Yahweh's very name. There was confusion about this very Angel in jewish mythology.
Why does God need passover sacrifices at all? how does it benefit God.
ln lsaiah 53, if you say it is a prophecy about Israel, then why is God striking and bruising the jews for the sins of the gentile nations? what sense does it make? why kill so many jews for the sins of gentiles. Whatever answer you give to this prophecy, just insert jesus also and you would see how it is also consistent with the jesus figure.
The old testament is the story of lsrael and her God, the new testament is a continuation and a retelling of that story for not just jews but also gentiles. Because even gentiles needed the messaiah figure. A figure who has power over sickenesses, sufferings and even death.
This is the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham, that in his seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. This is how the entire mythology of both old and new testament works.

Kalixx:
Who do you think you are to speak for everyone?

Partly right, there are people who have faith in humanity, with or without having faith in any celestial being.

For me, I do not have any faith in any damn supernatural entity. And there are others like that. So tame your conclusions abeg

why do you have faith in humanity? lt's just like the chickens saying l have faith in chickinity or the dogs saying l have faith in dogity or even the lions saying l have faith in lionity.
Let's think about the apes for a second, does it mean they have this kind of faith for their species? is this faith reasonable?what do you think?

Amujale:
You are mistaken, anyone who studies Greek history knows that Socrates was a real person.

It’s Jesus that’s the fictional character not Socrates.

Who wrote Greek history and why do you trust them? Haven't you heard that history is written by the Victors?

Amujale:
All the famous Greek philosophers all studied under the stewardship of Imhotep.

Plato, Aristotle, Socrates e.t.c

Socrates is hailed as father of westeen philosophy; described as "the man who brought philosophy down from heaven to earth" ( Cicero 45BCE).

In essence, Socrates was teaching the Greeks Imhoteps knowledge.

As a huge fan of Socrates, i sometimes remember to thank him for introducing the Socratic methods that would later evolve into the 'Scientific Method' in which investigations begin with hypothesis; yet, the knowledge he taught them in Greece was not the original works of Socrates but rather that of a Nubian KM.Tic scientist known as Imhotep.

All the famous Greek mathematicians studied under the stewardship of Imhotep.

True history records Imhotep as the father of orthodox medicine.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3293164/How-Imhotep-gave-us-medicine.html

[url]https://www.healio.com/pediatrics/news/blogs/%7B475f0fed-3f4c-4767-9cd7-0725a4e1034d%7D/james-h-brien-do/imhotep-the-real-father-of-medicine-an-iconoclastic-view[/url]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19726401-600-the-strange-anatomy-of-the-brain/

source: Risse GB. West J Med. 1986 May; 144(5): 622-625. Imhotep and orthodox medicine--a reevaluation

True history says jesus existed.
Note that even Socrates may not have existed, we don't have good enough evidence to suggest he did. Some think he is a fictitious character created by Plato and the likes but mainly Plato. This is to show you that people can assume anything and make up conspiracy theories.

Kalixx:
That is because religion is not the definitive influence of morals or ethics.

Religon is not but faith is, we all have a certain kind of faith.

Kalixx:
Bro, you are mistaken on so many fronts. Your first sentence alone shows you are not unaware of the ongoings in this world and you are lagging behind. First of all, I dont know who sells all you church-goers this notion that atheism is the gateway to anarchy. What Im about to tell you may shock you if you're not woke.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are pure and confirmed atheists. In Buffett's biography, it is quoted that "He adopted his father’s ethical underpinnings, but not his belief in an unseen divinity..." At different points in time, they held the title of the richest man in the world. Yet they are one of the greatest philantropists of all time. I know you have an idea of Bill Gates philanthropy, especially in Nigeria, but what you likely don't know is that Warren Buffett is a greater philanthropist. From 2000 to 2017, Buffett topped the list, giving away more than $46 billion since 2000. That worked out to 71 percent of his $65.5 billion fortune. I can't shout abeg, here's the link: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/21/warren-buffet-is-the-most-charitable-billionaire.html

So my question is how much have your greedy and money-hungry G.Os who so much believe in God handed out in form of philanthropy? Hope you saw that is about 71% of his wealth? And you're here saying atheism leads to anarchy? Abeg make I no hear that b*llshit talk again.

Your leaders that practice deism, is Nigeria not in anarchy today? They swear by the bible, swear the koran as oaths to office but wear the toga of corruption in complete pride. There has bn no light in the country for over 24hrs and that is not chaos, abi? Bokoharam are bombing anyhow with religious backing; Rivers state keeps flowing blood, a significant percentage of our youth are into yahoo, SARS and police keep killing people on a daily, Sowore has been locked up indefinitely, no light in the whole country for 24hours, corrupt leaders, sham, violent and fatal elections (e.g. Kogi), and all these do not yet constitute anarchy to you? Even in a country that is of Deism through and through?

Christianity should stop making you people dumb! You talk about atheism-cum-anarchy, and I will remind you of the dark ages where the Papal dynasty murdered millions of dissidents and advocates of Protestant and Reformation movements in Medieval Europe. You need to read how the 'church' convicted William Tyndale for heresy and killed him by strangulation. See, there is so many points I could reel out but let me just forgo this discussion. Meanwhile, have a look at some of the images I uploaded. The first shows Canada and USA as countries with more atheism percentage, yet sh*tholeans, the ones who resolutely believe in deism, would do almost anything to step into those lands:

l knew you would come up with this kind of reply because you didn't read carefully.

l ask you again:

lf you are a powerful emperor in this world whom no one can question, say you are Alexander the great or Ghengis Khan, and one with this an ideology, an ideology that rejects faith that the world is not a jungle, what stops you from doing what you desire?
Explain to me why you should not cheat sometimes at least if it gets you what you and your family/ race wants?

We know how animals behave, what in your worldview stops us from behaving like them?

You gave me examples of Christians doing bad things in the name of christianity, l can also give you examples of Christians doing many good things in the name of christianity, giving their life for a greater cause or for hope that things would change, so you have no point there.

Think again before you reply: l am not asking you if atheists can be good people, or give up their life for a worthy cause, l am saying why should they? lf you say they can, then l say isn't that foolish given your belief system that there is no hope and no justice, no kingdom of God, and we are all like the animals?

Don't tell me about Bill Gates and the likes, these are all humanists born in societies with thousands of years of christian foundation.
l believe you are smart and know the difference.
l told you before, the western world as a whole is not a good example of core atheists. Take for instance this saying which all humanists in the west seem to believe in and is the foundation of human rights for a humanist non religious organisation like the United nations:

"We hold this truth to be self evident that all men are created equal".

Do you believe this also? because this statement has no proof and can only be held by faith.

And just for the records: l have no Daddy G.O's and the likes, like you seem to insinuate.

Amujale, name just one of your popular ancestors that existed even just 1500 years ago and give me good evidence of his or her existence, l challenge you.

Amujale:
Imhotep is the author of the Edwin Smith Papyrus.

The Greeks attempted to erase Imhotep from KM.Tic history and replace him with Thoth the ancient Egyptian god of writing.

And the same Greeks would later combine Thoth with their own personal god Hermes.

They studied Imhotep's concepts in private and basterdised his philosophical works.

After the Greeks studying Imhotep and all the other KM.Tic scientist, they tried to claim it as a "Greek Miracle".

All of those Greeks were not contemporaries of imhotep, there is no evidence to show that he was a multi talented genius or that all records about him are true.

Amujale:
All the proof anyone needs is present in the post above.

There's no sensible academic that refutes Imhotep.

No reputable historian, philosopher, phsysician or mathematics in their correct senses can deny the existence of Imhotep.

All the popular Greek academics all pay homage to Imhotep. i.e Plato, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Euclid of Alexandria, Hipocrates, Socrates e.t.c

Imhotep is the KM.Tic god of knowledge, and the Chancellor of Djoser. A real person that lived as a real recorded person.

The architect of the 'Steps Pyramid' in Djoser.

Go and check out the fact here first before making such a disingenous remark.

None of this is proof until you show me records from his time that speak about him. l am simply holding you to your own standard.
lf what you wrote above is good enough proof for imhotep even though you have no contemporary writer speaking about him for about a thousand years after his death when people began to worship him, then why do you doubt the existence of jesus whom we have records of just decades after him, of people worshipping him as lord. The existence of christianity as a religon in just 30 years after jesus, which Roman Emperor Nero hated and blamed for a certain fire in Rome, is that not better evidence of an institution built in the name of jesus, than the likes of Plato, Aristotle, etc praising lmhotep? people who lived about 1600 years after imhotep?
Yet you do not doubt anything you read about imhotep even without any contemporary record?

Amujale:
Imhotep, was a Nubian scientistsic ; the world's first ever known multi-genius and their original god of knowledge.

Imhotep is recorded as a multi-genius due to the numerous disciplines he has been found to have successfully studied and taught. i.e Architecture, Astrology, Astronomy, Engineering, Orthodox Medicine, Mathematics, Philosophy and The Physical Sciences.


The most remarkable physician of all time and the greatest medical practioner in the history of Orthodox Medicine; it's from Imhotep's medical journals and write-ups that Western orthodox knowledge of medicine is derived.

.
Without the knowledge from Imhotep and the other KM.Tic priests, the entire world of today wouldnt have been able to have made the great advancements in the Arts, Commerce or Sciences.


"Imhotep, a gifted mathematician, credited as the authority that identified and held onto all the major fundamentals of modern day  mathematics"

Source: A History Of Mathematics by Uta C. Merzbach and Carl B.Boyer. Forward by Isaac Asimov. Its important to note that Asimov is famous author of I-Robot Series in science related literature.

Furthermore, all the past known celebrated academics, say with their own mouths and within their own write-ups.

Its important to note the fact that Imhotep was practicing Orthodox Medicine over two thousand years before Hippocrates was born.

Going by your logic, l could ignore your source and say that imhotep is a fictitious character created by the Egyptians.

Traditions from long after Imhotep's death treated him as a great author of wisdom texts[2] and especially as a physician.[3][4][5][6][7] No text from his lifetime mentions these capacities and no text mentions his name in the first 1200 years following his death.[8][9] :

The records about imhotep do not have good evidence in history like almost every story of the ancient world, so imhotep is nothing but a fictitious character using your logic and way of arguement, unless you can provide good evidence for his existence.

MuttleyLaff:
Many people have problem(s) with apostle Paul because they dont understand what he writes and dont understand his style of writing either

This is an opinion and one without evidence

"Paul talks about these same things in all his letters, but part of what he says is hard to understand.
Some ignorant and unsteady people even destroy themselves by twisting what he said.
They do the same thing with other Scriptures too."
- 2 Peter 3:16

The same attitude and way they have with Pauline, is what they have and do with scripture. Look around and see the prejudices, discrimination, bigotry, hypocrisy, greed, sense of entitlement, hoodwinking etcetera going on

List your ocassions that you dont agree with Paul on and why not you dont agree with him, so we together both examine if true, you have a point and/or case, lol

People who misunderstand Paul in any way like that, dont know their bible well enough.

The misunderstanding comes from not knowing their bible well enough, like I've previously submitted, and most importantly not understanding and appreciating the significance of the appearance of Elijah and Moses conversing with Jesus, in the form of a vision that Peter, John and James saw, on the day of transfiguration.

1) Paul (or a letter ascribed to paul) in 1 Timothy, and even 2 Timothy has a low view of women corresponding to the times in which he lived. So a man living in the 21st century (where we should no longer see women solely as men's property ) must understand that Paul was simply a man of his times here.
2) Paul focused so much of his gospel on the death and resurrection of jesus, while this is important in christianity, this should have come second place to the teachings of jesus on the kingdom of God. jesus from the gospels came to preach the kingdom of God in addition to dying and rising again according to the Jewish scriptures.

These two are the major ones, but the gist here is that paul was simply a human being like you and l. Not everything he wrote should go unquestioned. lnfact the entire bible should be seen as a very human book inspired by God detailing the story of humans and their relationship or perceived relationship with God in the light of difficulties.