₦airaland Forum

anjilgreat:
Pls everyone, let's all calm down and not take things too serious in this life. Pls taking sides with the aggrieved parties will only make things worst.

Let's learn to make criticism constructively without making issues look personal. Whether you like it or not, we are all one family and our diversity in opinion and mentality makes us unique.

In every of our trading decision, due diligence is the key despite expert opinions here. Pls all aggrieved parties, no more insults let's have our old NSEMPA back. Thanks and God bless us all in our investments.

I was shocked to see adults take sides on issues about which they were supposed to play neutral and assume assuaging roles.

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmm FALSE again Sir! Jesus never stop repeating topics before anyone because His father pour rain on both the good and the bad! Matthew 5:45
Granted He uses illustrations PUBLICLY and expects honest hearted ones to come secretly to Him in order for them to know the meaning of such illustrations.
For your information,it is the Pharisees rather that stopped coming to him because they can't face this great teacher who is NEVER tired of spiritual warfare even if it means repeating Himself again and again and again! Matthew 22:46

You are too fond of quoting Bible passages out of context. Mathew 5:45 talk about love for enemies and has nothing to do with responding to questions.
And where exactly did the scriptures say that the Pharisees stopped coming to him? Why do you so much love to smuggle your assumptions into the Bible?

lordtim001:
Over 40 years Wow!
Daddy, I have one question. Can you choose any day to celebrate that Easter? Can you choose to celebrate Christmas on another day asides December 25th? After all, the Bible repeatedly says that we should keep from becoming causes for stumbling

While I don't know how Christmas celebration could become a cause for stumbling, I know the Bible says as follows:
Romans 14: 5-6 - Some people think that a certain day is more important than other days, while others think that all days are the same. We each should firmly make up our own minds. 6. Those who think highly of a certain day do so in honor of the Lord; those who will eat anything do so in honor of the Lord, because they give thanks to God for the food. Those who refuse to eat certain things do so in honor of the Lord, and they give thanks to God.



quote author=lordtim001 post=75858168]
Encyclopedias generally contain a wealth of information. Why should I not consult them? How did hairyrapunzel know that the Tetragrammaton is not in the New Testament?[/quote]Hairyrapunzel didn't quote encyclopedia to validate any verse in the Bible. She quoted it to counter a claim of yours from another secular source. No true Christian seeks validation of the word of God through the writings of men

quote author=lordtim001 post=75858168]
And did Paul tell them to worship God through that same altar? He only used it express a point that they should broaden their minds to the possibility that there is another God that they do not know, which is the one true God.[/quote]In 2 Kings 23, worship of God resumed in the temple and on the very altars polluted with idols after Josiah cleared those idols and gods.
Also, God later came to be worshipped on Mount Zion after the original inhabitants (the idolatrous jebussites) and their idols had been cleared off it.

quote author=lordtim001 post=75858168]
Last last, everywhere we have good Christians. Because they do not make the news does not mean there are no good people being persecuted to the point of even having to lose their jobs.[/quote]Job loss as punishment for staying true to religious principle is a civil service feature. People in elective offices also stand firm and make a difference. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abegnego were political appointees who made a difference.
quote author=lordtim001 post=75858168]
We repeatedly hear that politics is a dirty game. How many of them are pagans? It's the same people that profess to be true Christians or good Muslims that are still making things worse... They also say Power corrupts and Absolute power corrupts absolutely[/quote]Even within Christian gatherings, power corrupts. Should that therefore be taken as that leadership with the Christian fold is bad and should be avoided?
Please name just one secular human affair which is not a dirty game with corruptive influences? Is it sports, business, indoor games, use of electronic gadgets and internet, working in the private sector, etc? The world as a whole is dirty hence all it takes is to distinguish oneself regardless of the sector in which one finds himself.

TATIME:
Good of you but i'm a Christian{Christlike or little Christ} and as a follower of Christ we're never tired of REPETITION whenever the need arises, because Jesus{our Master,Lord and King} never got tired of repeating topics to impress in the minds of listeners what He has taught them! It is Satan and his demons that won't like repeating topics because they don't care for you!

Jesus never repeat answers to those who deliberately refused to accept the truth despite Him having shown them from the scriptures and demonstrated them with the power of God in hhim. For such stubborn hearts he would either just use parables or ignore them. You are one of such stubborn hearts who keep repeating question you have been given clear answers to with citations from the scriptures.

quote author=TATIME post=75859825]
Of course there is HATRED between light and darkness so it's only when someone is a lost sheep{obedient individual but brought up in falsehood} that such a person will like to find out why he/she worships in the midst of confused religionists whereas there is a group where everything is ORDERLY.[/quote]The fact that you and your brothers here are always first to resort to abusive language when defeated with superior argument is an evidence that you are the ones reeling in hatred due to having being brought up in falsehood evidenced by an unstable doctrine in which darkness today might become light tomorrow and light today could become darkness tomorrow.

quote author=TATIME post=75859825]
So Jesus made it clear that light and darkness can never become one,but you can borrow a leaf{if truthfully you want light} from the illustration. Because a world that is filled with darkness light attracts all faces even though many won't like to come near the light for a reason best known to them. John 3:19-21[/quote]How can I borrow a leaf from a light that can become darkness tomorrow in the hands of a people who are led by men? Why must I abandon the Holy Spirit led inspiration for a group that obviously lacks the power of the Holy Spirit hence preaches out of fear of the authorities? Does it make sense to even you yourself?

quote author=TATIME post=75859825]

The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses stands out and all eyes can see this wonderful group,that's why persons like me from a Muslim background who formerly believes in
*causing and killing my enemies
*eternal punishment of SOULS
*going to live in heaven (though i can't explain why)
*dead are suffering in hell
*can't speak convincingly about my beliefs
*often enraged when insulted
And many more just like you're presently,the only difference is you claim Jesus is God and that He is a part of some TRINITY. Yet i've become one of happy Jehovah's Witnesses globally today all because i HATE confusion! So if you're a friend of confusion or darkness as Jesus puts it (since those in darkness can't see each others works to be reproved) you and i will ever remain ENEMIES! [/quote]How can a group best known for failed predictions, ever changing doctrines which sometimes revert back to the ones they originally rejected, lack of the power of God hence can only talk and talk and make empty boasts, believe that salvation is by their personal efforts as against the Bible's clear instruction that it is by grace obtained through faith, etc, be claiming self righteousness? All these befitt you very well in harmony with 2 Timothy 2:4.

TATIME:
HONESTY! Hmmmmmmm well your opening words says "Stories" meaning there is nothing that can change your mind from the hatred you have for this group! But i'll tell you what i honestly believe.
The first four books of the Christians Greek Scriptures{New Testament} is about the life and ministry of Jesus,how He gathered disciples and how they went into hiding in fear of the authorities.
The ACT OF APOSTLE is the book that teaches us how the first century Christians overcome the fears of critics,what happened after congregations were established and many mistakes of the first century followers of Jesus.
Jehovah's Witnesses are following the pattern set by those first century followers that is why we've remained as one globally just as the first century Christians in all lands we're submissive to the Apostles's teachings{Act 2:4}JWs globally are submissive to the GB's teachings today!
There was judicial committee in the first century to expel unrepentant sinner from the congregations{1 Corinthians 6:13} and JWs are doing exactly the same today!
There were errors in organizational arrangements{Act 5:1-11} note that Ananias and Sapphira died because of the arrangement that the Apostles organised and after they found out that it failed they stopped it. There were also misconceptions during the first century after Jesus ascended to heaven{John 21:23}
, Globally the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses kept spreading on accelerated pace,my friend if you're truly honest yourself you can just accept that this is the group about whom Jesus said "they will become one".John 17:21-23
But if you still feels like arguing,it's OK my friend just know that Jesus has a group though they're not perfect individually speaking but the whole world can SEE{Matthew 5:14} that they are one despite coming from different backgrounds! Isaiah 2:1-4

I have decided to respond to these issues once more not because I feel like indulging you in your dishonesty of repeating them despite having been thrashed thoroughly in another thread from which you ran away for lack of superior counter argument based on the scriptures, but for the sake of those who might stumble on this very thread without having seen those other ones.
I have already cited many biblical evidences that the Apostles never really had structural organization challenges and that they neither operated as one single group to which all believers must compulsorily belong to. Just as there were believers in Jerusalem operating as a body to which membership was not compulsory, there was another group of believers in Damascus which did not work together with that in Jerusalem...Acts 9:10,13,14,19.
Contrary to your claim, Acts 5:1 - 11 doesn't speak of any structural organization let alone a change of it. What happened there was communal living which grew spontaneously out of necessity occasioned by the atmosphere of persecution of believers by the authorities. This is much like the experience I had as a youth corper in Kumo Village in Gombe State during one occasion of Sharia riots in 2001 which saw all of us Southern Christians in that village relocate temporarily to one neighbourhood for synergy of pooling our resources to feed and self defense should the rioters come our way. Once the State Government completely quelled the riots after a week, we all spontaneously parted ways again to our various abodes. That wasn't an organizational structure but an ad hoc arrangement under an unfavorable circumstance to our faith cum lives.
The only time a quasi-structure was set up was in Acts 6:1-2, and it was set up to handle only finances and never as a hierarchical structure of a church that could pass for a governing body. Those chosen also did not have their influence spread to cover the believers in Damascus or elsewhere. Had there been no complaints about the distribution of finances between the Greek speaking Jews and the native ones, that structure wouldn't have been set up. So the idea that hierarchical structure and governing bodies began with the Apostles is pure bunkum.
The issue in John 21:23 happened while Jesus was still with his disciples and even because of what he said which he even clarified there and then. So how could it have caused a misconception after he had ascended to heaven? You probably learnt that from an encyclopedia, not so? Isn't this why we have been telling you that it is wrong and demonic to rely on human records for validation of scrptural truths?
The very standards by which you adjude yourselves as one are rather meaningless. As long as you broke away from another already existing group and other splinter groups have broken away from you and keep breaking away from you, then you are not one hence have failed your own idea of oneness. Jesus prayed that his disciples would never split into groups and none of them ever split from the group. But you from whom countless groups have split are claiming you were the one Jesus was referring to in that passage. Story!
Here are just few of the over 1000 groups that have splintered from you:
1. Bible Studies Fellowship, headquarters in San Diego, Ca.
Bible Way Publications, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.
2. Christian Millennial Fellowship, Hartford, Conn. Publishes the New Creation magazine.
3. Christian Renewal Ministry, Saratoga, Ca.
4. Church of God of Abraham, Wenatchee, Wa. Publishes Notes for Bible Students newsletter
5. Dawn Bible Students, East Rutherford, N.J. One of the original splinter groups formed after Joseph Rutherford became president of
the Watchtower Society
6. Fort Worth Bible Students, Ft. Worth, Tx. Republishes older W.T. Society literature
7 Laodicean Home Missionary, John Krewson, Ft. Myers, Fl.
8. Laymen's Home Missionary Movement, Raymond Jolly, Chester Springs, Pa. Publishes the Bible Standard and Herald of Christ's 
Kingdom newsletter. {In turn, a splinter group came out of this group: Epiphany Bible Students Association, Mount Dora, Fl.
Publishes a newsletter under the group's name}
Pastoral Bible Institute, Milwaukee, Wisconsin

9. There is a group under Hayiland Davis, Albany, N.Y. I'm not sure of the name.

10. In Africa there is a group that originated in the 1920s called Kitawala Movement.
11. God's Kingdom Society formed by an Urhobo man who broke away from you.

and many more.
So cut that crap of unity.

TATIME:
HONESTY! Hmmmmmmm well your opening words says "Stories" meaning there is nothing that can change your mind from the hatred you have for this group! But i'll tell you what i honestly believe.
The first four books of the Christians Greek Scriptures{New Testament} is about the life and ministry of Jesus,how He gathered disciples and how they went into hiding in fear of the authorities.
The ACT OF APOSTLE is the book that teaches us how the first century Christians overcome the fears of critics,what happened after congregations were established and many mistakes of the first century followers of Jesus.
Jehovah's Witnesses are following the pattern set by those first century followers that is why we've remained as one globally just as the first century Christians in all lands we're submissive to the Apostles's teachings{Act 2:4}JWs globally are submissive to the GB's teachings today!
There was judicial committee in the first century to expel unrepentant sinner from the congregations{1 Corinthians 6:13} and JWs are doing exactly the same today!
There were errors in organizational arrangements{Act 5:1-11} note that Ananias and Sapphira died because of the arrangement that the Apostles organised and after they found out that it failed they stopped it. There were also misconceptions during the first century after Jesus ascended to heaven{John 21:23}
Globally the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses kept spreading on accelerated pace,my friend if you're truly honest yourself you can just accept that this is the group about whom Jesus said "they will become one".John 17:21-23
But if you still feels like arguing,it's OK my friend just know that Jesus has a group though they're not perfect individually speaking but the whole world can SEE{Matthew 5:14} that they are one despite coming from different backgrounds! Isaiah 2:1-4

I will only address the bolded because all the other things up there are repeatitions of issues which I have already thrashed out with you both on this thread and others. I don't like being taken back to an old topic without bringing up a new thing about it.
Now to the bolded; I guess there is anything that can change your own mind from the hatred you have for other Christians going by how much you still stick to your organization's beliefs despite how much they have been proven wrong from the scriptures.
I don't hate any group at all. What I am against is misinterpretation of the Bible and the assumption that works of the hands are what brings God's approval.
I termed your submissions as stories because they create the wrong and unscriptural impression that one is saved by one's personal efforts and self righteousness as against faith and the grace of God.

lordtim001:
Without the Encyclopedia, most of us would not know the history of some things

I am deliberately not going to give you the NWT rendering.1 Cor 4 vs 6,7 in Douay Rheims version : But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, *that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written.* [7] For who distinguisheth thee? Or what hast thou that thou hast not received? And if thou hast received, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Now concerning paganism....If we say we want to abstain from anything pagan, we would be deceiving ourselves. Our calendar months, days of the week were all created by pagans. Likewise your Zion example. But we would stay away from them only if it has something DIRECTLY to do with PAGAN WORSHIP. Wedding rings do not involve worship directly. Because they were used by pagans first does not mean I cannot use them anymore. But consider things like Easter eggs and bunnies. They are the sign of fertility of the goddess Eostre. So why do Christians use it during Easter? After all, you want me to believe that they are completely different. Or relationship does Santa Claus have to do with celebrating the birth of Christ? Or what does wearing red have to do with Valentine?

Concerning civil service, many of these same Witnesses are changing the norms. One of them I know personally is the head of the WDC Ijaiye, but her juniors have bigger houses and cars. She doesn't have to bend for others. And the position is not political.
Did you ever ask yourself whether Matthew that was a close disciple of Jesus, continued his tax collector duties? I guess it should all be left to conscience. But personally, I cannot involve myself in politics. Whether JW or not. I know many non-Jws who share the same sentiment

Neither does anyone worship Easter eggs and bunnies in their use for celebrating Easter. By the way God created all those things originally but pagans only abused them and directed their use for the worship of idols. Why should we now surrender them to those idols in the name of "They are paganistic in origin"? Their genuine origin is from God who created them and not the pagans who only abused their purposes. So nothing is really wrong in redirecting their use back to the one who really created them.
The name 'Zion' meant a pagan fortress of protection...more or less a pagan god of protection. But it the genuine God of protection adopted it eventually. Likewise, in Acts 17:23-25, Paul found in Athens a temple dedicated to an unknown god i.e. one of their idols which they believed they were yet to identify. However, Paul in his speech redirected them to the real God through the use and adoption of that unknown idol (i.e.as God) to whom that pagan temple was dedicated. In the next verses he explainef to them that the whole world including that temple and the material of which that unknown god might be made were all created by the true God. Do we now say Paul was guilty of using an entity rooted in paganism and idolatry to represent the Almighty God? Never! His intention was to bring them all to the knowledge of the true God, hence it is intention of use of any object that matter and not the origin of it.
I myself am just hearing of bunnies and
Easter eggs in all my over 40 years on earth. I have always celebrated Easter by simply going for church service and visiting orphanages and prisons with gifts and sermons because my intention about it is to propagate Jesus as the Messiah and not to worship any idol connected with its origin.
Nobody worships Santa Claus either. It is now just a human figure who gives gifts to children in reminiscence of the wise men who offered gold, myrrh and franckisense to Jesus on his birth which Christmas itself commemorates.
If God had felt we needed extrabiblical sources, one of which is encyclopediae, to fully understand his words, then He wouldn't have told us not to go beyond what is written in the Bible. Moreover, human records of history are mostly contradictory hence can't really be relied upon to establish the veracity of the words of an infallible and omnipotent God. We are meant to read the Bible and accept its contents by faith which is the most central issue in Christianity.
Well, you can't really separate the civil service from politics as the laws establishing it makes it an institution statutorily loyal to the interest of elected politicians. As a permanent secretary in a ministry you must sign checks by which the politician in power would procure weapons for tuggery during elections, offer bribes to the courts to pervert justice, etc.
It is even easier to make a difference in an elected office than in the civil service. As an elected politician to an office you can refuse to compromise without any consequences since only those who elected you can remove you. But in the civil service you are under an authority which can victimize you for staying true to principles and persecute you into compromise.

TATIME:
So you agreed that despite all the effort of the Apostles {just as the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses are working tirelessly to keep the organization clean today}with God's holy spirit.Act 15:28,29
Some first century Christians still commits a lot of blunders{just as some PROFESSED Jehovah's Witnesses today are still falling below the standards} Hmmmmmmmm this is really interesting!
My question to you now is
*Would you have been a member of that Christian congregation or stands out as none denominational believer due to the records of blunders committed by fellow Christians? Hebrews 10:24,25
*Will you be bold and confident enough to tell unbelievers that failure to come and learn the TRUTH from the Apostles{just as those erring Christians have learnt yet still falling to sinful acts} could lead to destruction? John 3:16-18

Stories. Isn't it the same way the leadership of every other Christian group is working tirelessly to keep the fold clean yet some of their members too fail to adhere? And come to think of it, which single member of any group can be adjudged as really clean? You think there is any? That is why it is a thing of grace and never a thing of any standards or personal efforts.
The other groups don't however use first century Christians as standards because that would amount to actual compromise of the standards Jesus Himself set even for the Apostles. But your organization sets as her own standards the conduct of the more sinful second generation first century Christians whose conducts are recorded not even in the Bible but in mere encyclopediae authored by equally sinful men who didn't even believe in Jesus hence their testimonies can't be trusted. So which is better? Be honest!

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm
Your FAKE miracles aren't making anything good out of it's adherents my friend,that's why all of your are claiming none~denominational

Even the Pharisees, out of envy and inability to perform miracles, termed Jesus' miracles to be fake..John 9:16, 18, 31. So we are not surprised that the modern day Pharisees are behaving true to type in the footsteps of their spiritual ancestors.
One would have expected you to come and perform the genuine miracles so as to prove that ours are fake. But alas! It is talk talk talk without any atom of the power of the Holy Spirit to show. 1 Corinthians 4:20. Spiritually powerless people hence afraid of the authorities.

TATIME:
Most of you are hiding behind the lies "we are performing miracles" yet there is nothing worth emulating coming from your followers. Matthew 7:21-23

And you have usurped Jesus position as Judge, right? You hypocrite! You see a spec in another person's eye through the log covering yours. What is worth emulation among your own followers who get drunken, fornicate, prostitute, get hooked up in illicit sexual relationships with unbelievers in the course of your unscriptural house to house preaching, tell lies in workplaces to get permission to attend their religious seminars; and your organization which protects culprits of child abuse, pleged allegiance to Adolf Hitler in his pogroms targeted at Jews, etc? Hypocrites will never stop being hypocrites.

TATIME:
Jehovah's Witnesses are preaching and teaching what they know,and the number of dedicated adherents is approaching 9,000,000 globally while the whole earth can feel their presence even when no one can hear their voice in the streets! Matthew 12:19

Thank God you now confess you are teaching what you know (by yourselves) and not what the Holy Spirit teaches. Latest reports show that you adherents base reduces daily, more and more loses of lawsuit loses are on your neck over child abuse cases hence you are selling off your assets to be able to pay the damages. If not, why are you relocating your headquarters from New York to a cheaper Warwick? Mathew 12:19 refers to Jesus's humility. However Jesus actually preached in the streets and was heard loudly by all. We have addressed this verse before but you chose to recycle it because you couldn't find a better one to defend your disobedience to Christ's instruction against going from house to house.

TATIME:
Sorry Sir if it's not Jehovah's Witnesses{true Christians} it can never be that effective like the first century Christians!

Sorry, the Bible is the standard and not first century Christians who were themselves guilty of many sins but saved by God's grace. Wasn't it first century Christians that were accused of dividing themselves among Appolos, Paul, etc? Weren't they the ones sleeping with their In-laws in 1 Cor. 5:1. So if such people who were sinners just like you are your standards rather of the words of Jesus and the Apostles themselves, then you are the most miserable people on earth.

TATIME:
When Jesus called those Pharisees "FOOLS". Matthew 23:17 They immediately became insultive without the slightest hesitation because that's what they are good at! John 8:44-48

And where was it reported that there was a single Pharisee around Jesus there to warrant the thought that he became insultive to Jesus? This is how you insert and smuggle human laws into the Bible. If you read through the entire chapter you can't but discovere that Jesus was speaking to the likes of your dubious and self righteous organization.

TATIME:
For your information all the achievements of Jehovah's Witnesses is BOLDLY written everywhere! So keep arguing worthlessly in support of NO visible,reputable group while JWs are making millions to become subjected to our GB{the men Jesus is using today to gather His eathly subjects}!

Achievements of failed prophesies which are well known to everyone except some of your very members, right? You are correct.

TATIME:
This is where you're so good "returning insults for insults and abuse for abuse"
No wonder it's ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses who have the impetus to come preaching and teaching people IN THEIR HOMES politely,tactfully,respectfully and with efficacy!
Hmmmmmmmm now i know why all of you are nonedenominational noise~makers in our streets,since you can't defend what you carry in your head as beliefs!
Before after making so much noise disturbing the decorum in the peaceful neighbourhod,your folks will say "i belong to so and so church" but now that all your Pastors have disappointed you with their greed, all of you are now claiming nonedenominational since shame won't allow you to mention your former defrauding centers where you've been robbed and raped repeatedly!
Sorry o, We're Jehovah's Witnesses and we'll continue to come knocking on your door with confidence!

You hypocrite! You scold the person who is only returning the insults thrown at him but you ignore the person who is always first to throw the insults without any provocation just because he is one of your members. This is the smelly and disgusting hypocrisy which you JWs are known for. Of course I am not surprised. After all who expects decorum and civil responses from a people whose ever changing lies have been repeatedly bursted and dismantled with the scriptures?
Preaching in people's homes was forbidden by Jesus and you have been shown the Bible verse. So your continued grandstanding about it only showcases pride, arrogance and imperviousness to correction.
Of course what you enviously call disturbance of decorum in the neighborhood is the preaching and healing in public places as Jesus Himself did and commanded his followers to do. I guess Jesus disturbed public decorum? Keep blaspheming as we plead to God to forgive you for not knowing what you are saying.
If we feel disappointed with greed of some of our pastors and are honest and bold enough to say it out, aren't we therefore better than you who, though are utterly disappointed impoverished by the greed of your own organization and its leaders who out of greed and lust command you to donate to them all your investments, yet you are not able to openly disagree with them for fear that they will excommunicate you and shun you? At least our pastors don't excommunicate those who openly express disappointment in them.
The coming of the internet has helped in exposing the inconsistencies and brainwashing tactics of your dubious business oriented organization so much that the scales have started falling off the eyes of a lot of your members who have left it for the true message of Christ hence your financial fortune has begun to dwindle to the point of selling off your assets in New York and other parts of the world, and also putting in place mechanisms to check the leakage of information which expose your historical inconsistency. Why being afraid of information leak if your past and present is clean as expected of a genuine Christian organization? Do the other denominations care about leakage of information about them? Do they even classify as confidential anything about their history like Watchtower does?
You can keep knocking on doors to talk and talk and talk without any signs and wonders following you for confirmation of your talk against what the scriptures say. You can keep going from house to house for fear of persecution which the scriptures rather asks genuine Christians to gladly welcome and rejoice in. But we will continue being bold to stand in public places where we preach without fear of any authorities, and our words confirmed with signs and wonders of healings to the sick, casting out of demons, etc like the Apostles did. You have the right to remain envious of us and therefore continue preaching from door to door out of such envy. But that rather gives us joy.... Philippians 1:18

Peacefullove:
From a stupid boy who say Abraham and Lazarus is in heaven, deadlyliar .

undergoing punishment at where ?

u say hell .

now I will show u the real shocker.

Revelation 20:13 King James Version (KJV)
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

since hell is a place of suffering , why are those in the sea not there ? if souls are in hell , are souls trapped in the sea too ?

Look at this fool. Did the verse say "And hell fire delivered the souls of the dead which were in it"?
Go and read the Bible with an independent mind and stop dancing to the ever changing tunes of your manipulators? If lake of fire means grave, then how come grave was thrown into it, i.e. grave was thrown into a grave. Can you bury a grave inside another grave? Foolish Zombie!

lordtim001:
1 Corinthians 4 vs 6 and 7 tells us not to go beyond what is written. And we take this into consideration.

But don't you think that you people's use of Encyclopediae and other human sources of knowledge in defending your beliefs actually makes you guilty of going beyond what is written in the Bible?
1 Corinthians 4:6-7 didn't say anything in relation to your claim above. Here it is:
For your sake, my friends, I have applied all this to Apollos and me, using the two of us as an example, so that you may learn what the saying means, *Observe the proper rules.* None of you should be proud of one person and despise another. 7. Who made you superior to others? Didn't God give you everything you have? Well, then, how can you boast, as if what you have were not a gift?

lordtim001:
Even when celebrating things that were not shed in negative light in the Bible, we make sure that they are free of any paganic influence.

Let us take weddings for example of an event which is not shed in negative light in the Bible; the scriptures make it clear that weddings in biblical times were never conducted inside the temple but in the homes of the groom. The one attended by Jesus in Cana of Galilee is a prominent example. Jesus' parable of the man who celebrated his son's wedding in his own house was yet another evidence.
The conduct of wedding inside worship places originated from among pagans. But today JWs too conduct their weddings inside their worship houses? And you tell me you avoid practices with paganistic roots?
And do you think there is really any modern secular practice today not rooted directly or indirectly in paganism?
The exchange of wedding rings is paganistic in origin just like the wearing of white flowing gown by the bride. But you JWs don't forbid these in your weddings despite being 'aversed' to things rooted in pagan traditions.

lordtim001:
What you do not know is that some of these celebrations are deeply rooted in paganism. And God would not excuse ignorance. After all, He was still vexed despite the fact that the Israelites called the worship of the calf a festival to Jehovah at Exodus 32 vs 5. We know how that story ended

Before the Isreaelites did that in Exodus 32:5, God had already told them in Exodus 20:3 not to do such so they weren't ignorant as you would have us believe. Moreover they described the calf as god not God. The mere fact that they even made an image onto themselves at all against one of the Ten Commandments already given them is enough evidence that they contravened a very clear instruction which they weren't ignorant of.
Like I have already explained with the name 'Zion' which origin is paganistic but is now used by God and Jesus to connote their faithful servants, the intention behind the use of anything is more important than its origin.
Do you know that intramural system of education is paganistic in origin as it was the system by which pagan tribes taught their newly recruited soldiers the art of war and the effective use of weapons in preparation for wars? It was later spread to cover non-military professions like Engineering, Medicine, Accountancy, etc. JWs receive education through intramural system (i.e. schools) today and bag from them degrees with which they fend for themselves despite that system has its origin rooted in paganism.

lordtim001:
City treasurership was not an elected position. It is an appointed position. I know many Witnesses who are civil servants above level 12. They work in the government office but they weren't elected.This does not apply in this case.

There is also political appointment which is not civil service appointment but a reward for partisan political participation. It is like being appointed as minister of finance.
Those brethren who were part of the Emperor's palace in Philipians 4:22 could not have been civil servants going by what it means to be part of or to belong to a government.

lordtim001:
At John 6 vs 5, Jesus ran away when they wanted to make him king. You may argue that he avoided them because he would be straying away from his purpose of coming to the earth.

Jesus'rejection of the offer doesn't translate to an instruction against political participation. His acceptance would have jeopardized his mission to die for sins. Are other Christians on earth to die for sins too? Just like how Jesus decision to have got married would have derailed his mission, but that doesn't automatically translate to marriage being wrong for Christians.

lordtim001:
But he later said that his Kingdom is no part of this world.

Jesus would himself later clarify this issue of His (in the sense of Him alone) kingdom being not of this world when in response to his disciples question about the restoration of the earthly Israelite Kingdom to them, he assured them of the time when the Father would answer their prayers.

lordtim001:
Truth be told, the spirit of politics is one that a true Christian would stay away from.

That is an assumption not a truth.
And you think any human affair is worth participating in if we are to use your assumption of their corruptive influences? Even the civil service is more corrupt than partisan politics. In fact the civil service, by its very nature and the laws guiding it, is an institution that statutorily works for politicians and defends their interests. So on what premise would you separate the two?

lordtim001:
That's why you see people repeatedly lashing Osinbajo. Instead of pleasing God, he has to please people....

Even the civil service among whom there are JWs and their congratulation leaders is bashed as the engine room of corruption in Nigeria and is generally perceived worldwide as an establishment in which you can't work and still serve God conscientiously.

Peacefullove:
See something , their bodies are in the grave and you quote Rev 20:4-5, Your sense has forgotten u earlier said death and grave was used for devil ? their bodies are still with the devil ? Can u now see that u dont have any sense no matter how small. let me see you say devil mean grave in those text again .


are you by the bold saying Jesus lied ?

" soul and body in hell.” Matt 10 vs 28

according to Yeshua, Soul and body goes to hell together not Soul alone. Deadlytruth turn liar , Where do u get your own theory from ?

if those people presently suffering in hell, oga they will be there with their body , isnt it ? unless u create a different hell from the one in that text.

its scattering your head that works best now





lake of fire , this IS second death. says your Bible stupid boy.

I still ask , How can an imaginary beast and imaginary false prophet ( Another beast Rev 13: 11-16 ) be thrown into a Real fire ? if both are representation , what does the lake of fire represent ? if your sense isnt freezing u should understand that lake of fire is a representation of end of existence. just as death end a life either man or animal .

Cry me a river! You have been mauled, bursted and demolished. You didn't say anything new in the above response but just repeating your earlier rantings like a broken record player, neither did you address any of the posers raised.
So the false prophets have become imaginary again? I thought your publishing company already says all other Christian groups are the false prophets? So all those other Christian groups are imaginary?
Yes I said grave and death are used metaphorically in some verses in reference to the devil and I substantiated it with citations in Hebrews. Is your brain paining you that you can't just look it up?
I repeat, if lake of fire means the destination of those that will have died a physical second death, then how come the false prophet and the beast were thrown into it alive?

Matthew 10:28 says: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

If humans can kill the body but can't kill the soul, doesn't that tell you clearly that when a person dies, his body goes to the grave while his soul remains alive and moves to either heaven or hell fire for judgement, and on the last day both his body and soul get punished by God?
Didn't Paul the Apostle say in Hebrews 9:27 that: "For man is destined to die, and judgement follows thereafter"? How does judgement follow thereafter if both his body and soul go to the grave and remain there? Do God and the angels go to meet the person in his grave and judge him there or that a part of the person (the soul) goes to meet God and the angels at His throne to face judgement? Which between these two make more sense?
If lake of fire means grave as you are struggling and sweating to make us believe, then how come grave was cast into the lake of fire, i.e. grave was buried in a grave? Can't you see you are demented and suffering from manipulation as a Zombie?
And you have kept on avoiding my question that "Will you be bold enough to stick to this your current position the day your manipulators suddenly tell you they've seen a brighter light and adjust what you currently believe about hell and grave?" Until you answer this, you remain a big fool.

Peacefullove:
just as misunderstanding led you to switching between grave and devil in the same Text . u will say grave, later u will say its devil .

just as misunderstanding lead you to telling us lie here that Abraham and Lazarus are in heaven.

same misunderstanding lead you to sayinh soul are presently suffering whereas what Jesus said is Soul and body . u are in soup

You are only reeling from the pain of the embarrassment you have received from the dismantling of all the falsehood you came to present as truth. Are you tired of referencing Bible verses in isolation?

lordtim001:
I must hand it to you. You are very dedicated in researching things. But I put it to you that you cannot bring out one single doctrine that is not supported by scripture. The only thing you can say that I will agree to is that [b[misunderstanding of scriptures occur at times[/b]. The point is that there IS a scripture in the first place that enforces that thought

And we know that Mormons discredit the Bible but rely on Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon as their guide.

And sorry, my laptop is not with me, otherwise I would have pulled out that 1970 Awake from WT Library to read more about it. I'm really interested....Who was speaking there? And can I get the full article if possible

Misunderstanding of the scriptures is what brings about unscriptural doctrines.
If none of your doctrines is unscriptural, then why do they get discarded over time and entirely new ones erected in their replacement?
The current doctrine that Christians are not to celebrate certain festivals are no where in the scriptures. I haven't seen where Jesus said we must not celebrate the anniversaries of His birth or death. I don't know of any scripture that forbids celebration of birthdays. All I keep hearing is that one encyclopedia says they are rooted in paganism.
But then a lot of things which God Himself used to showcase Himself were of pagan origins. For example, the name "Zion" was given to the mountain by the original pagan inhabitants of the land in dedication to their pagan god. However God later occupied the mountain as His dwelling place while retaining the pagan name Zion and had His sacred temple erected right on it. This is a proof of the belief of other Christians that the intention and new meaning behind any adopted practice is more important than its origin.

Also, the doctrine that forbids political participation by Christians is very unscriptural and outrightly man made.
In Rom. 16:23-24 Paul addressed Erastus as a fellow believer despite Erastus held a political office of City Treasurership within the government of an earthly kingdom.
In Philippians 4:22 Paul sent greetings to brethren who belonged to the Emperor's palace. To belong to a palace was to hold a political office in an earthly government.
In Acts 1:6 the disciples demanded of Jesus to know when the earthly kingdom of Israel would be restored for self governance. By that they were showing interest in how they were being politically governed. But rather than rebuke them, Jesus even assured them of a time when their political aspirantion would be fulfilled by God himself.
Now, with all the scriptural records above, how can it really be defended that the Bible is against Christian participation in politics?
I can list very many of your unscriptural doctrines and provide evidence from the scriptures. But I wait for you to address these ones first.

lordtim001:
I must hand it to you. You are very dedicated in researching things. But I put it to you that you cannot bring out one single doctrine that is not supported by scripture. The only thing you can say that I will agree to is that [b[misunderstanding of scriptures occur at times[/b]. The point is that there IS a scripture in the first place that enforces that thought

And we know that Mormons discredit the Bible but rely on Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon as their guide.

And sorry, my laptop is not with me, otherwise I would have pulled out that 1970 Awake from WT Library to read more about it. I'm really interested....Who was speaking there? And can I get the full article if possible

Misunderstanding of the scriptures is what brings about unscriptural doctrines.

TATIME:
Not until you're able to make your folks give up weapons and other harmful practices, JWs sees all of you as worshipers of the same god! 1John 5:19

You seem to have forgotten that you were shown here a Watchtower publication in which your organization declared it is non pacifist and admonished her members to bear weapons for defence of self and their doctrines. You have also chosen to forget that your organization pledged allegiance to Adolf Hitler in his crusade of massacre targeted at the Jews. Self delusion is really blissful.
We see JWs as worshippers of the Devil who pretend to the contrary... Matthew 23:28,33.

Hairyrapunzel:
False belief today will turn true belief tomorrow. Lol.ever changing doctrines. Error filled doctrines.

Nearly every belief of the other groups they term apostates later became the truth from a brighter light to them. Then one begins to wonder who was the apostate all that while.

TATIME:
They thought Christianity is about holding onto old traditions of their FAKE church founders! When Jehovah's Witnesses are making improvements in what we believe, a member of their so called churches will just leave to start yet another church but still remains their affiliate even if such CLEARLY points out the errors in their religion,as long as he won't claim to be the one and only like JWs he is welcomed into the fold of their numerous religious groups having conflicting teachings and contradicting doctrines!

As per the bolded; how did Russell and the rest start what eventually became JW if not by breaking away from an already existing church?
What is contradictory in the beliefs of the other denominations? Is it the Trinity, blood transfusion, hell fire belief, celebration of birthdays, etc which you accuse all of them of having as their doctrines?

Gal. 1:8 says:
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel that is different from the one we preached to you, may he be condemned to hell

Isn't this enough to tell you that change of belief in the name of improvement is scrpturally wrong? In the passage above Paul made it clear that even he himself was not permitted to change or make adjustments to the doctrine he first preached to them since it came from Jesus Christ Himself. Therefore any set of supposedly Christian belief which keeps changing in the name of improvement is definitely neither inspired by Jesus nor guided by the Holy Spirit. Such is the category into which your organization falls.

lordtim001:
If you think you examine JW beliefs more than JWs, you are totally wrong. I have read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz, Reluctant Apostate by Lloyd Evans, Kingdom that never came by Joseph Wilting, Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonnson. I even have all the Seven Volumes of Studies in The Scriptures by Russell....And you know what I have realized??

Despite the fact that some things we believed in were barbaric, the fact remains that we were humble enough to change them as quickly as possible. I read in one of the Studies in the Scriptures that Russell believed that God's throne is in the Pleiades star because of the thick mist covering that place. Know who else had that belief? Mormons....But guess what? After careful consideration, JWs quickly changed their belief. But up till TODAY, Mormons still believe that God's throne is in that star....Same thing goes with the issue of vaccination and many others

The real issue about your ever changing beliefs is not about being humble to admit when you realize you are wrong but about the fact that your beliefs are not guided by the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised as the coming perfect and infallible teacher and interpreter of the word of God. The Holy Spirit can't really guide you to believe a thing is true today, and some few years later tells you it had on studying further realized that it was wrong about what it made you believe initially. Such inconsistency definitely can't come from the Holy Spirit but from men.
Moreover, simple courtesy and humility demands that, before going ahead to spread your new doctrine of realization that God's throne is not really in the Pleiades Star, you first appologize and give credit to the other Christians with whom you initially disagreed about that and even went as far as referring to them as being led by the devil for not agreeing with you on your initial stance on that issue. But your organization never so appologizes obviously due to arrogance and egoism which are themselves fruits of the flesh.

deomelo:
There's no difference between past and present governments in Delta state, they are still collecting the same huge figures via allocations derivations and IGR and still nothing meaningful on the ground to show.



After Lagos, Delta is shouldering the largest debt figures in Nigeria, N223 billion and we are not even talking about the huge allegations, derivations and IGR.

Osun was in the news for owing N136 billion, that's like almost half of Delta's debt, but we can see on the ground what Osun did with their debt money, they have wonderful projects on the ground to show even though they don't have oil, derivations, or the huge allocations and IGR they have in Delta.

Kano is not collecting huge allocations, IGR or oil derivations like Delta, not even the same huge debt like Delta, but they are still delivering world-class projects left and right.

The story is the same all over the SS.

Not all SS states are collecting huge derivation please. Edo's derivation is insignificant compared with those of Rivers, Delta, Akwa Ibom and Bayelsa. Cross River likely doesn't collect anymore. However, Edo and Cross River have really given good account of the little they get. Though Lucky Igbinedion's tenure in Edo was an unprecedented plague in the history of Nigeria.

Felixv:
It really is a big shame that the ND governors and representatives have failed to contribute to the development of their states.

Considering the resources at their disposal you would expect those states to be well developed ,and their indigenes to be comfortable but instead they are the ones trooping over to Italy and other countries in search of greener pastures.

I remember when Ibori was charged with fraud and he was never convicted in Nigeria. Same with igbinedion and odilli.

It is obvious that restructuring is not the problem - it is corruption.

The faulty structure gives birth to corruption hence with the right structure corruption will be reduced to the barest minimum.

lordtim001:
And for the rest of the JWs here, please try to apply Colossians 4 vs 6. Use gracious words. I see a lot of insults flying around. Even if they use them to refer to you, please try not to.
I learned something from a cartoon I watched this week, (Ralph Breaks The Internet ) that there will always be trolls on the internet, no matter how good you seem and no matter how lovable you are.(And I'm not calling anybody a troll o. God knows that I have learnt a lot from the intellectual ones here that bring up thought-provoking conversations)
And you don't even know these people. Be the better person, brothers

Goodnight!

That was very dishonest of you. JWs actually started the use of abusive language while others only respond. Your decision to present the reverse as the case shows you are not different from your very brothers you seem to be admonishing.
Check the first mention of me by Peaceful Love and you'll see how he began my mention with outright insults. I am not surprised anyway because I really don't expect JWs to be that honest.

Peacefullove:
Something is doing you with all this your contradictions,where are the wicked presently ?

A. Suffering in eternal fire

B. In their graves in the sea or land .



Who gave you the name deadlytruth, u are deadlyliar. So it was Devil that release the dead in it ?

See this comprehension deficiency minion of a manipulative publishing company still showcasing his looted brain. Go back and study my comments very well. The souls of the wicked are in punishment already while their bodies are still in the grave... Revelations 6:9; 20:4-5.

Of course how would you have known that it was the devil that gave up the dead it held in the sense of living sinners who are held captive by Him when you refused to read the Hebrew verses I referenced? Even your fellow JW here agreed that 'death' there is in metaphorical reference to the devil yet you are disagreeing with that. Isn't that an evidence that JWs don't have identical beliefs and opinions on issues contrary to claims by Watchtower that all her members are united worldwide in opinions about biblical interpretations?
If you think death doesn't mean devil as used in that verse, why not also attack your fellow JW, Tatime, who shares my opinion on that? See how pathetically hypocritic and dishonest you lots are?

Revelations 19:20 says: "The beast was taken prisoner, together with the false prophet who had performed miracles in his presence. (It was by those miracles that he had deceived those who had the mark of the beast and those who had worshiped the image of the beast.) The beast and the false prophet were both thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur."

Now, according to you, the lake of fire simply means grave where those who will have already died the second death will be sent to. But how come the beast and false prophets were thrown alive into the grave (your own meaning of lake of fire) without having died a second death first? Care to explain this contradiction, Zombie?

Peacefullove:
The way u forget your thinking when typing baffles me , Called out of where ? Are u not the stupid boy saying they are presently in eternal fire before ?

Like I already said, your stupidity is legendary. You have been so manipulated by a mere publishing company that you are not capable of synthesis. Are you trying to imply that you haven't seen here that it is their souls we've been saying are already undergoing punishment? Were you not shown a verse in Revelation where souls of the departed righteous were speaking from heaven? It would have been more profitable for whoever sponsored your education to have simply thrown the money into a flowing stream. Idiot of a boy!

TATIME:
Well if someone enters into one house and the other and cured all forms of deceases,i guess people will start gathering to know more about this healer even if He did not make any sound along the streets. Matthew 12:19
Zacheus lives in the neighbourhood and there is no way such a miracle worker could pass by without been noticed since the reports of His miracles will make people run to see the healer.
Jesus later sent the disciples out to places where the inhabitants don't have God's laws which commands people to be hospitable to strangers{Leviticus 19:34} so Jesus now newly instructs them for preaching and teaching program in a strange land.
Jehovah's Witnesses are also in places where the inhabitants are not hospitable or perhaps they don't easily welcome strangers so we know how we go about our preaching and teaching program in such areas without anyone {hearing our voice in their streets} Matthew 12:19

So you JWs are preaching with fear? It is now you are talking. Good! At least you have confessed that fear of hostility is why you disobey Jesus' clear command that evangelism should be done in public places and not from house to house. That means you are afraid of persecution contrary to Jesus' admonition that you should rejoice in it and gladly welcome it as a sign of worthiness of His kingdom. But you know what? In addition to enjoying persecution, genuine Christians don't have the spirit of fear at all because the Bible has already told them that he that is in them is greater than he that is in the world. They also remember Jesus' admonition that they should fear not those who can only destroy the body but can't destroy the soul. I hope you know where all these admonitions are in the Bible?
In Acts14:1- 5, the Apostles went into the temple in Iconium and spoke boldly without fear even though the Jews and some gentiles there were hostile to them.
Acts 16:13- 15 says:
13. On the Sabbath we went out of the city to the riverside (i.e. a public place and not anyone's house) where we thought there would be a place where Jews gathered for prayer. We sat down and talked to the women who gathered there.14. One of those who heard us was Lydia from Thyatira, who was a dealer in purple cloth. She was a woman who worshiped God, and the Lord opened her mind to pay attention to what Paul was saying.15. After she and the people of her house had been baptized, she invited us, *Come and stay in my house if you have decided that I am a true believer in the Lord.* And she persuaded us to go.[/b]
You can see that Paul and Silas agreed to visit Lydia's house only after she had accepted the preaching done in a public place and became a believer, hence their visit to her house was not to go and preach to her further but to live with her. Then using her house as a base, they began to visit other public places in the city to preach as recorded in the next verses. This harmonizes perfectly with Jesus' command to the missionaries in Matthew 10:11 and Luke 10: 5-8, to first, on arrival in a new city, find a believer or a new convert ready to accommodate them, live with such and eat whatever meals he or she offers them; and from there be going out to public places to preach while avoid going from house to house during preaching (vs 7)

In the next verses, of Acts 16, i.e. vs 16 - 40, Paul and Silas went out right into the streets and as they were moving a girl under an evil spell began to follow them. They cast the demon out of her. Then her owners instigated the authorities to jail Paul and Silas for the doctrines they were preaching. This means Paul and Silas could not convert them with talk talk talk....
But while in Jail the power of God came down and shattered the prison. Paul refused to escape. Then the jailer got converted and baptized. Same with some others the next morning. Now do you see that there are some people who can never be convinced by preaching but by only a display of the power of God which unfortunately JWs don't have? Then how could such a group, in all honesty, be said to be preaching by the correct method?
If Paul and Silas were preaching from house to house, how could they have been seen and arrested to enable them get jailed and attract a display of God's power which converted the stubborn ones?

TATIME:
GBAM!!! Here we go with lengthy posts UNSUPPORTED with scripture references.
Jesus said "GO" {Matthew 10:3-5,28:19,20}and as the leader He led by EXAMPLE in the preaching and teaching program. At Matthew 12:19 the scriptures says "no one will here Jesus' voice in the streets". So you can now tell everyone how PRACTICAL Jesus will preach and teach if NOT visiting people "in there homes",that such preaching will not involve the common tradition of your folks who keeps making NOISE IN THE STREETS.

What are you saying? Haven't I given you a heap of scripture references for all these in many other threads? Why do you love unnecessary repetition this much? Haven't I referenced Luke 10:7 where Jesus specifically asked them to avoid going from house to house when preaching but go into a public place in the town and do the evangelism and healings from there?
Mathew 19:20 is only making reference to the prophesied humility of Jesus and has nothing to do with His mode of evangelism. If people didn't hear Jesus'voice in the streets, then how did Zacheus know he was passing by?If that verse meant that Jesus would not preach in public places, then was it inside people's houses he preached and fed thousands with bread and fish? Inside whose house was he preaching when he was dishing out the beatitudes which setting is recorded in Matt, 4:25 - 5:1 as follows: 25. Large crowds followed him from Galilee and the Ten Towns, from Jerusalem, Judea, and the land on the other side of the Jordan. Jesus saw the crowds and went up a hill, where he sat down. His disciples gathered around him,.....

So the "other side of the Jordan" where this large crowd gathered was actually a person's house, right?
Funny enough you have not been able to provide one, I mean just one, Bible passage where Jesus went from house to house preaching.

Luke 6:17-49 shows an instance where Jesus came down from a hill to a level ground in a public place and then began to preach the beatitudes. I guess the crowd around Him didn't hear his voice, right? In all other instances, Jesus preached either from the temple, synagogue or public places and never from house to house.
Mathew 10:28 has nothing about preaching mode. I guess you meant verse 27 which is a figurative expression which even emphasizes the fact that preaching must be done publicly in very open spaces. It says "you must announce the good news from housetops....". Can't you see that housetops are public places where people in the streets can see one easily? Can you be seen in the streets when you enter people's houses? The previous verse says the gospel should be announced to towns. Can you make a public announcement from inside people's houses or from a public square and elevated place?
You just quote verses anyhow without having read and digested them properly.

TATIME:
Your starting comment has a flaw Sir,because i can't SEE how what you're saying should be PRACTICED.
At Matthew 10:3-15,28:19,20 Jesus' command says "GO!" and meet people in their homes,so do well to obey Him by GOING to visit people IN THEIR HOMES to teach them what you know.
As for JWs we're doing our best in what we know is good but if you're sure that our doctrines are false then GO and meet people "one on one,face to face" because that's the reason Jesus sent His own followers out to go and meet people so that observers can learn from them,not only FACELESS talk talk talk but by SEEING how Christianity ought to be PRACTICED!

Why do you JWs so much love to rewrite the Bible? Where in those passages did Jesus ask the missionaries he sent out to go and visit people right inside their homes? In fact in the only place where the issue of visiting homes came under consideration, Jesus specifically and unequivocally forbade His missionaries from doing so? We have already thrashed this issue in previous threads where you and your fellow JWs here woefully failed to prove the contrary hence resorted to abusive language to save face. Why are you now trying to return us to that cycle?
Meanwhile in the passage you quoted as your source of standard on how Christianity should be practised, Jesus also said as follows:
Heal the sick, bring the dead back to life, heal those who suffer from dreaded skin diseases, and drive out demons.......

Your organization however doesn't believe in all these and therefore doesn't do them. But you claim you are the ones following the standards supposedly set out therein. How does this make sense in all honesty? An array of standard practices are given and all of them are made mandatory for Christians, but you select the convinient ones to the flesh and discard the difficult ones, then you turn around and claim you are the best example of adherence to those standards whereas the other groups who even observe all those standards still don't see themselves as the best because they know that, according to another part of the scriptures, the genuine standard by which Christians are judged is by faith in Jesus and not by personal efforts which missionary work is all about.
See yourselves?

TATIME:
It's no need arguing facelessly and endlessly Sir! Just go and teach people in your neighbourhood what you know and don't forget to tell them that they shouldn't listen to JWs since all other religious group are TEACHING this same thing except JWs! God bless you.

At least you can now see biblical evidences that your doctrines are mostly human laws fabricated by people who interprete Bible verses in isolation of the entire book.
As contained in a Bible verse I already once showed you, ministration of the word of God to unbelievers is not a matter of words and teaching but about a demonstration of the supernatural power of God which JWs deny its active presence today. So why should I tell people to listen to a publishing company which so blatantly denies the role of God's power in the success of Christ's Ministry but base it only on words and talk talk talk?

SuperIgbo1:
Y'all are quick to call Azikiwe forgetting, Akintola.

Akintola was a bigger slave than Azikiwe. Akintola accepted Balewa's plan to wallop the west and its intellectuals for their continuous call for his removal as the premier of the west.

You have forgotten that Akintola got the support of the Balewa-Azikiwe Coalition Government when he started to work against Awolowo and by extension the whole West. Wasn't it the Balewa-Azikiwe Government that assisted Akintola by way of imposing an unwarranted emergency rule in the West? Weren't the Igbo NCNC members who always disrupted the process to impeach Akintola playing out the script of Zik who was still in bed with Balewa as of that moment? Didn't Zik sign all the documents by which Awolowo was thrown into jail as a result of Akintola's pro-Balewa thus anti-Awolowo schemings?
The scales only began to fall off Zik's and Okpara's eyes after the 1963 rerun census which Balewa badly rigged against their own Eastern Region hence the beginning of North vs East animosities as against the previous North-East victimization against the West.
And do you think Akintola would have attained any prominence and influence to betray the South at all at any point in time if Zik had from the beginning simply accepted the proposed all-south coalition which would have made himself the Prime Minister with Awolowo as his Finance Minister? Whichever way you look at it, that shortsighted decision of Zik was the foundation for all the crisis that later came up (including the treachery of Akintola) leading to the tragedy that befell the South till today.

emmanuelex1:
I am not ready ready to argue with you but I know Ojukwu would have killed Awol if he wanted to. I guess if Awol was a northern as at then he would have been killed. Well this is 2019 so I free history for you.

I am not disagreeing with you on the bolded at all. But my questions are
1. "Why would Ojukwu have wanted to?"
2. "Would doing such not have equally angered Yorubas into retaliation of killing all the Western Region resident Igbos thus being counterproductive to Ojukwu's very most important task of defending the lives of Igbos at that moment in time?"

Or you think Yorubas were like us Midwest whom the Igbos killed their prominent son Okotie-Eboh but accepted it calmly?

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmm
Well you should have asked what JWs believe instead of this unwarranted assumptions.
For your information Jehovah has NEVER approved TORTURE even if such happens to be a criminal,Jehovah says "exterminate" as in kill or cut such person off from the living! Leviticus 17:10

I don't know where you got your own Bible from. Lev. 10:17 doesn't contain anything directly or indirectly concerned with approval or otherwise of torture by God. Only in your typical JW imagination does such exist. Here is what Lev. 17:10 actually says:
"If any Israelites or any foreigners living in the community eat meat with blood still in it, the LORD will turn against them and no longer consider them his people. So where is the issue of disapproval of torture by God here? Why do you JWs just enjoy quoting the Bible falsely thinking one would not look them up? Do you people think others Christian just swallow what they are told without checking the scriptures by themselves the way you JWs are programmed not to personally verify from the Bible whatever those 8 New Yorkers dump on you?
Now here is where some deamons confirmed it with their own mouths and words that God had set a time for their torture, yet you claim God doesn't approve of it?

Matthew 8:29....And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

TATIME:
So the LAKE OF FIRE means complete destruction. Adam died and returned to dust{Genesis 3:19} but his obedient descendants will have the privilege of been raised back to life. John 5:28,29
But PERSISTENT evildoers who refused to repent will join Adam in none existence,so DEATH,HELL{grave} and all evildoers including Satan and other falling angels will return to none existence. This is what the Bible refers to as the 'second death'.Revelations 20:14

Exactly how do all these conjectural merry-go-round answer my simple question as to whether the devil and the grave once literally died a first death to warrant them dying a second one?

TATIME:
The first death resulted from the inherited sin through Adam. Romans 5:12
The second death will only affect UNREPENTANT sinners,because Jesus' sacrificial death has paid the price to redeem us from Adamic sin{Psalm 49:7-10} but after resurrection into the new system any persistent sinner will die for his/her own sin! Revelations 20:12,13

If the first death was as a result of sin hence took the form of being separated from God not in the physical sense but in the spiritual one, then how and why would the second death be in the form of total destruction which would amount to physical form? Is God inconsistent? The context in which God used death as the wages of sin, and as the consequences for Adam's eating of the fruit was one of spiritual separation from God thus suffering on earth while still alive. So also the second death will take the form of a spiritual separation from God by way of sinners suffering eternally in hell while still alive.
Like I have always said; you took Psalms 49:7-10 in isolation again. The passage only refers to earthly existence and earthly death. It has nothing to do with eternity. Looking at the verse 11 of it which says:

"Their graves are their homes forever; there they stay for all time, though they once had lands of their own."; how come the wise (mentioned in the previous verse) who are supposed to be in heaven in eternity will share the same fate with the foolish (also mentioned in the previous verse) in the grave forever if grave here refers to second death?

TATIME:
So
*HELL{Sheol in Hebrew,Hades in Greek,simply means Grave}
*DEATH{return to none existence after last breath of a living soul but not yet permanent}
*LAKE OF FIRE{Jehovah's punishment on the permanent destination of unrepentant sinners}
Jehovah's final decision on DEATH,HELL and all evildoers is symbolised by LAKE OF FIRE.

All these did not answer my question as to when the devil and the grave had a first literal death and rose again in preparation for a second one.