₦airaland Forum

anonimi:
What I see is our failure to accept responsibility for our inability to evolve from the self centric model that holds us down, into enlightened self interest.

It’s the mindset that made us the only race to massively sell its own people to others, in the way that the Jewish brothers sold Joseph to the Egyptian.

The saddest part is how we insisted on continuing the criminal trade, after oyinbos changed their minds.




What or who stopped us from doing like the Japanese leaders did to slavery

I know your position on this matter from a past discussion. That's why I copied you here. It's a massive subject and not everything can be addressed in one post.

I may or may not delve into your questions but first let me ask: what is your own explanation for how things have turned out thus far? Simple inferiority or stupidity?

anonimi:
Is there no sun and mosquito plus even worse things in the southern part of America, as well as Australia and New Zealand?

What of Caribbean islands and other islands in the Pacific Ocean

You can see the difference in gradations in each place.

anonimi:
At what point in history did oyinbos japa here to help us make our country better than theirs

You should thank the sun and the mosquito. But for these two things they would be here up till today.

And there are examples of places they did that to. America, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa.

TV01, I thank you for this. True to the deal, you have taken your time and gone through with a fine comb and made detailed responses in a scholarly manner. This does not mean I agree, but I am delighted that you have kept to the spirit. And you have invested and delivered more thought than could be said for basilico (even though in another post i was surprised to see him acknowledge the role of climate in development, something which you seem to have always dismissed lightly.

TV01:
You have said a lot. However, there is little to nothing that speaks to when or how BA nations in particular will develop in any meaningful or comparable way to WN at this point in time

Oh we will come to that. Remember also that that post was really in response to something basilico said and I have a response coming up separately for your own post which centred on South Africa.

But the short answer remains time and cycles.

A retrospective of ancient civilisations and empires that are no more, speaks nothing to say the Nigerian situation, and why it is effectively arrested in terms of development.

It is not arrested. You see, it is only because we are stuck in the moment that we see it that way. We are living in the middle of the happening. When history is looked back on, hindsight will be 20-20 and broader strokes and patterns over larger spans of time will then be visible and discernible. I insist that 66 years of independence is very little to work with, we are actually simply in the middle of our own "progress" however tortured, stunted and back-and-forth it is!

Looking back on history, you will find such periods in the life of most nations / peoples / races. Ups and downs, ebbs and flows, growth and decay, war and peace, boom and recession, and on and on it goes.

In fact, from a philosophical point of view, I dare call it the simple rhythm of life - natural as life and death and childhood and old age.

The reasons for, and the lessons from, their rise and fall are not necessarily pointers. Each one rose and fell, advanced and developed, due to a unique set of circumstances. Too unique individually and too broad as a whole to be applicable or overlay on the situations in view.

It is that very uniqueness that I call upon you to recognize enough to stop making the sort of comparisons whereby you pick on one people at one time and deride their progress as compared to another people.

The points in bold speak to positions I have repeated often. The 1st - A different history means a different development trajectory. What in the history, traditions, customs, culture or mythology or religion of BA suggests that in time they would have developed along the lines of WN? You seem to believe that left alone, in due course the Fula pastoralists would have been launching satellites or Nomadic Hutus would have invented the automobile? On what basis can you validly make that assumption.

A number of things to say here. About three things.

1. Left alone, Black African cultures would have developed differently into an altogether different kind of civilization with its own uniqueness for sure. There is no reason to suppose that they would have developed in the same way that Western Nations did - no - that is the whole point when we speak to differences in geography, climate, history, et all! So please do not make this assumption at all. And as evidence/ corroboration of this point i will use two examples - (a) Meso-America - being cut off from the rest of the world for most of recorded history, they developed in a unique and different way that also showed in the nature of their largest cities such as Tenochtitlan of the Aztec and Tikal of the Maya. (b) From the animal world and evolution, species isolated on an island without interaction from the rest of the world tend to evolve uniquely - as can be seen with some unique species in Madagascar and Australia and other places where there was long isolation of species. These two examples suffice to prove the point.

2. At all events, travel and the resultant intermixture of cultures is cardinal to development. Your statement above suggests somehow that you do not give the benefit of this fact to black African societies, while ignoring the fact that the same fact of travel and intermixing was absolutely crucial for the development of Europe for example. Why do you have this double standard? Europe developed with a lot of ideas and technologies from the middle and far east (and there is a reason for this - the geography you dismiss again). Much of the scientific and even theoretical ideas which are foundational to European development came from elsewhere through trade, wars, adventure, religion, exploration, etc. There is no reason for you to exempt Africa from the same benefit of thought when the time came in history for people to travel down the Atlantic and begin to share what the rest of the world had known. This is normal.

Let me slide in something here about the geography I mentioned which you lightly dismiss. Knowledge is a thing no one person can have or build up by himself. But once different peoples intermix, their knowledge grows faster because they build on the many things learnt from many people in many places. This is where geography comes in in one way (because there are many ways it comes in). It comes in here in terms of the ease of travel, the lay of the land which enables people to mix, travel, trade, share and even fight. And in this natural boundaries are key!

So in a nutshell, when there is a massive hostile natural boundary such as the Sahara desert between the known world and Black Africa, it is only natural that all of that shared knowledge would not filter down here at the same pace or in the same way. In fact, history would have been totally different. Just imagine if the Sahara did not exist - would the Roman Empire have stopped at North Africa? No way, it would have filtered all the way down and the influence of its culture would have reached the Atlantic just as it reached Britain and Germany. What would have stopped it again would have been natural barriers such as the rain forest, the hot and humid climate and mosquitoes.

In this way you can see just how critical that one massive hostile natural barrier - the Sahara desert has been. By contrast, North Africa, the Middle East, the Far East and Europe ALL were contiguous without the kind of overwhelming natural barrier that would stop whole empires. That is why Alexander the Great got as far as India and the Mongols got to the very doorsteps of Europe!

And in such intermixture, a great deal of learning takes place. Knowledge is shared and mixed at an incredible pace and this pace is not available to isolated areas of the world where there are massive barriers. This will explain why the aborigines of Australia for example, would be left behind. The massive barrier of the ocean and the isolation, along with other factors.

Let me add one more thing here - all of the lands of much development in Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and Asia historically - please look at them and you will find them all laid out across the temperate zone of the world. This is a very key thing which tells about the role that climate plays in civilization. And I have said that there has been much academic work on this.

I will drop the links in another post to avoid being banned.

But look at the image below this post. It delineates the temperate zones of the world. Looking at that image is quite enough to let you see what has been happening and how the major civilizations coalesed in the temperate zones. The areas in the temperate zones that did not develop at the same pace had another factor at play - massive natural barriers in terms of oceans and the like, which prevented knowledge sharing.

As a slight aside, you can see that South Africa falls within a temperate zone and that's why Europeans stayed there once they found it. Same with Australia and even parts of South America.

3. Time. it takes time for all barriers to be conquered and further time for knowledge to mix and the resultant development to occur.

The 2nd - Exactly which is why white SA move and build Orania which replicates the FD their roots\people have historically achieved. While black SA receive an intact WN like country and immediately start the inexorable drive to what their FD could achieve and maintain before Boer settlers arrived - Kraal Life!

I think what I have explained above partly answers this, but the lack of integration as a result of Apartheid was obviously problematic because the separation ensured completely parallel lines of development in every respect for the white and black societies.

Agreed for the most part. Homogeniety has to help. However patriotic fervour can be cultivated, whatever the ethnic composition. BA are unlikely to overcome tribal affiliation and clannishness to commence that journey. Somalia is ethnically homogenous bar a small Bantu demographic - who are culturally and linguistically identical - but are serially war-torn?

I can only answer this by pointing to the legion wars of the history of Europe. I know you must know this. To what end did they not fight one another? Is it England and Scotland we want to start from? Is it the Kievan Rus in Eastern Europe and all their battles there? Is it the Viking raids of Britain? Is it the one billion tiny fiefdoms in Germany and all their battles? Is it Rome and Greece? Time, cycles.

Let me insert something here. One thing leads to another. The butterfly effect, the ripple effect. You dont seem to take it into consideration in your thinking. For example, if a place is cold, people will search for heat. If they have to search for heat they will more likely come up with furnaces powered by certain fuels, such as coal. If they have to do that, they are already closer to industrializing because seeking heat power sources is the root of the power of industry. If such is their weather that their soil is frozen half the year, they have to learn quickly how to preserve things, that alone imposes a way of life and an organizational imperative without which they would die.

By contrast a people living in a land where the weather doesnt kill them and the soil is fertile all year round would not have these imperatives. They would also not build thicker housing or develop more heavy and detailed clothing!
This is very very key and you need to absorb it and not dismiss it lightly as you are wont to. Because the ripple effects seep into everything.

Has there been, could there be civilisational development? Sure, and of course. But could it advance and scale to the level of basic, not even advanced WN? There is nothing to suggest this.

Again, pertinent. But it doesn't excuse the fact that even for the individual tribes, the FD as you term it, had never developed to the degree that WN model development, especially scientific advancement and technological progress were ever in view.

This I believe I have addressed.

Don't forget, prior to WN intervention, the tribes effectively existed as separate nations. And I believe there would have been further development, more advancement. But to what degree? And I see nothing to suggest great scientific or technological strides. The prevalent superstitions for one, would have been too a great hinderance

TV01, Europe also had great superstitions, I dont need to tell you that. Secondly, if you look at the detail of Kingdoms like the Benin Kingdom right here in Nigeria, you would have no doubt whatsoever that they were well on their way, just at a different pace dictated by a different environment.

It is easy for some to call pre-colonial Africans savage and yet steal the Benin Bronzes which were clearly works of civilization at an already advanced stage of artistic endeavor!

Again to my point. It's why the vestiges of colonialism or apartheid cannot be maintained or improved upon. It's why SA under black majority rule, with it's natal F& can only journey back to where it came. It is exactly that "local mindset", not ethnicity, not skin colour that determines this.

Time. It will take time. Black SA, it can be said, is still in its infancy. There is absolutely nothing inferior or savage about them. It is just natural cycles and it is insane to ignore what they suffered under apartheid and judge them in a mere thirty years.

If you were to create a nation of ethnically black people with a critical mass of inhabitants with a WN type FD then a WN type society would emerge. Otherwise what I term "inherency" prevails. Hence why I shudder at the thought of immigration at scale from countries from a non-WN FD. We see the outworking already in the UK, as the historical FD starts to be compromised and eroded, by people from what I make no bones abut calling an inferior FD.

There is nothing to be worried about except from those societies which intrinsically by their religion abhor freedom, as freedom is critical to Western culture and it is precious in our sight.

@bold, I see your take here as wrong - a nation of immigrants yes, but overlaid on a FD that is clearly of the WN milieu. As I noted, it's not about the ethnicity, skin colour or origins, its about the prevailing FD. Everyone that arrives in America has to buy into that, or arrive with FD that is a close facsimile.

Indeed the Foundational Demographic (I have warned you about using acronyms you dont define, I assume from the context this is what you mean by FD - or at least certainly the foundational or core culture) for America was key, there is no denying that. But put that against the perspective of everything I have said about what it takes to develop - climate, weather, geography and mixture. The white demographic had had the benefit of that by the time it reached America.

In answer to what you said about exchanging say blacks with whites in a given society and seeing the result, I would ask you to think like this: Do you for one second imagine that if one hundred thousand years ago the set of people that remained in Africa were placed in Europe and the set of people that were in Europe then were placed in Africa, do you seriously imagine that every factor I have pointed out above would not similarly lead both sets along the paths that have emerged today?

Listen - denying the effect of climate and geography in this matter is therefore as bad as denying that blacks are black because of the weather, and whites are white because of same!

Stages of development yes. It does not mean that all societies ultimately morph into modern libera democracies. We haven't had these before. Hypotheses about such things as climate, fauna, etc. are just that. They cannot be falsified or empirically proven. I don't buy them.

They are cold hard indisputable facts.

Kindly evidence or expatiate on this assertion.

Evidence that empires and development are in cycles? You are kidding me right?

Splendour and grandeur are relative, and, not the sole or even necessarily a hallmark of true civilisation. With ritual sacrifices into the tens of thousands every year? Cannabalsm, Incessant tribal warfare and only basic technological advance? These were not modern-day liberal democracies, with the attendant rights, liberties and freedoms. Let alone scientific inquiry and technological advancement or capital market economies.

Here I take issue with you. Tell me which was worse - tearing out someone's heart as a sacrifice or burning / torturing and hanging hundreds of thousands of women to death at the stake on accusation of witchcraft? And I hope you know this continued in Europe for more than 200 years after they had reached the Americas? The point is that Europe also had very barbaric practices even into the modern age and therefore it is absurd that you try to wish away the civilization of Meso America on that ground alone - and this is even wishing away the fact that much of what Europeans negatively reported about the places they conquered was highly embellished to demonize them. Standard practice of conquering nations throughout history.

Thank you for the detailed effort. See the map showing temperate zones of the world below.

cc: Ijebos / LordReed / cococandy / bemeruca / benalvino3 / Obrigardo / GracieX3 / raumdeuter / anonimi / GloriousGbola / RogersAkpafu /Bayelsaowei (I copy you all because I lbelieve this topic is foundational to a lot discussed on this thread in terms of racial issues and just so that you are abreast where the issues come up in future discussions. So please dont be irritated, especially with the length.

cc: lionessza6 / irongalaxy / - I copy you because of the South Africa angle. Some posters here try to deride the progress of South Africa, and i see that as wrong and short sighted, I see a broadly historical perspective.

basilico:
The way you frame things like someone who never went to school stands out like a sore thumb. Very easy to spot.
When you change your handje a careful person should be able to smoke you out by your second post.

Jesus, please. I was going to say something, but for Treaty.

Ijebosc:
There won't be any.
They used to accuse me of being anyone in this thread who sounded smart and wrote in complete sentences.
In those days they(Bemeruca and his bestie sly) would have accused you of being me.

Actually one of them made such an accusation some weeks back. It was either budaatum or someone else who said it cant be because you would not openly criticize Islam as I do. But the fact that the accusation was made shows you have a point.

Melagros:
COMRADES, if this killing is true, fine. But my question is that; those Nairalanders supporting Iranians, what will they say about this news? Will they commend USA for this feat or will they still condemn the US?

Nigerian Army had said they killed the same man two years ago.

benalvino3:
No. You are complaining, everyone is complaining and running away like me, Ijebos, Raumdeuter, Budaatum, etc., yet you are making nonsensical excuses. Where did we run to? Not a Black nation, but we ran to the people that we said did us bad.

Why are we running to them when we blame them for our current situation?

Japa is normal throughout history. Japa to places where one has access to more and to more developed places. Doesn't mean those places could not be the more developed countries that have sucked yours dry to be developed. Standard in fact.

bemeruca:
You just follow 😂
Nothing original.




Oga stop trying to clean up what she clearly said. You act like a simple thing always.

She said: When we talk about billionaires being evil…

That na broad statement. Not some billionaires, or not certain exploitative billionaires, or not specific corrupt business practices. She framed billionaires as evil.

And that is the issue, a lazy communist issue. Criticizing bad practices okay, fair. But saying billionaires are evil as a category is just lazy class resentment.

People work hard every day to feed themselves and their families. They go to school, learn skills, build careers, and many of those jobs exist because someone created or scaled a company.

Before someone complains about working hard for billionaires, they already worked hard in school and training so they could qualify for those jobs the billionaires provide.

Don’t hide broad hatred behind fake nuance.

She said she loves mone, but she wants to take other people's money. Only short broads can love money and save it.

There was and is context to what she was saying and even a toddler would know that.

bemeruca:
Having a common language does not mean having one identity.

Africans have failed to develop a national identity and as a result, deeply disunited. This is true from Nigeria to Ghana to Congo, etc.

African countries inherited borders that grouped different ethnic, religious, regional, and political interests together. It's why I argued our problem is stems from multi-culture and we don't know how to marry all those culture into one identity.

So real challenge was not just communication. It was building national identity, trust, institutions, accountability, and a culture of unity. And hat is where many leaders failed, not only leaders, Africans as a whole. Instead of building strong nations, many turned politics into ethnic competition, corruption, patronage, and power struggles.

That is why some countries fell into coups, civil wars, and endless instability after independence.

And people will always need something to blame. In US it's racism and systemic racism for every gap. In Africa, it's colonialism and neocolonialism for every failure since they can't find a white man to blame, they have to have a blast from the past as usual.

Yes, colonialism did damage. Nobody should deny that. But colonialism also left behind some structures that could have been improved: roads, railways, schools, civil service, courts, ports, and common administrative systems.

Our ancestors suffered the bad side. The responsibility after independence was to take whatever useful structures existed and build on them. Instead, too many leaders destroyed institutions, looted resources, and used colonialism as a permanent excuse.

So common language alone was never enough. Development requires leadership, maintenance culture (which is not a thing in all the ethnic groups in Nigeria and arguably Africa) , national unity, rule of law, and institutions that work.

It seems that my ministry here is not entirely useless. It will force some people to think.

basilico:
Africa is not like Europe.. Favourable climate , no extreme heat and cold annually. .Africans never had an existential weather problem to solve.
Northern hemisphere people had to invent air-conditioning + cooling for their summers. They had to invent heating for winter.
Europe extreme weather meant that they had to figure out food processing and preservation .
In comes energy development. Our energy needed was for firewood mostly.
Africans never had those existential threats esp those within the tropics.

That's just one point I'll respond later.

Plus.
After independence nations in Africa has a common language. That should have spurred development, our leaders blame neocolonialism.

I am shocked that you know and acknowledge the climatic factor in development. TV01 seems to disregard it as an excuse.

benalvino3:
All this nonsense you wrote does not explain where we are going. Those things explain starting conditions; they do not excuse continuous regression, corruption, waste, and lack of maintenance after decades of self-rule.

You are making the argument sound deeper than it is by comparing African states to Rome, Persia, Japan, Meso-America, Britain, Germany, China, etc.

But my point was not that Nigeria or Ghana or Congo should have become Japan in 60 years.
My point is simpler: if a country had some working public systems decades ago, then a serious government should maintain and improve them, not allow them to decay.

If clean running water existed in some areas before, and now people need boreholes, that is not because Nigeria has many tribes or colonialism. That is because public infrastructure was not maintained. If the same road is rebuilt from scratch every few years instead of being maintained properly, that is not because Europe fought wars for a millennium. That is contract inflation, corruption, bad engineering, weak institutions, and no accountability

You mentioned Japan’s thousand-year-old hotel as proof of deep historical continuity. But that is the point: some societies preserve, maintain, repair, and pass things on. In many African countries, we demolish, abandon, loot, or rebuild from zero. That is the maintenance culture I am talking about. That concept does not exist in the Igbo, Yoruba, or other Nigerian languages. There is no word for it in those languages.

History explains why the house may have had cracks. It does not explain why the current owners removed the roof, sold the windows, and blamed the former landlord.

Ups and downs. Ebb and flow. Growth and decay. This is normal in the lives of nations.

benalvino3:
dahighlife

Ijebos is funny sha. one of the reason i come to this thread is because of him.

as for deepsight, he might be flooding Ijebos DM begging for a few change. that should explain the bootlicking.

You obviously like to joke a lot.

basilico:
Another short reply.
Blaming tribes and lack of homogenous society doesn't cut it
Colonizers left us a working system
We do annual budgets. We have extremely learned people in every discipline making policy decisions.
Yet we are still backwards as a nation. Plenty of poverty. Blaming the colonizers. There's enough water all around but not in our taps. Electricity shortages.
Private sector CEO who don't grow the company get shown the door.
Yet we have annual budgets snd internal audits department. We have long term and short development plans .

We don't need to be homogenous ir speak one language to develop. Our development plans have existed for decades.

This is a surprising response not just in its brevity but in the way it completely misses the essence of what was said.

You also have not lived up to the spirit and letter of the treaty. Look at the fine work TV01 put out in response (even though I do not agree with much that he says). He made sure to fulfill the terms on thoughtfulness, studiousness and scholarly input.

One thing I must say which mildly turns me off with you is a suspicion that you don't read much what is said once it appears lengthy.

IronGalaxy:
The fake concern you guys have for whats happening in SA generally baffles me, there's far worse happening in your respective countries than the SA protests.. I saw your actor canayo canayo, given a platform to spew absolute pile of ... about SA and the so- called "xenophobia"..where is he when Christians are slaughtered like chickens in his home country? When it comes to SA, the outrage is always selective

People are different but we are also alarmed about events here in Nigeria. That doesn't make our concern about events elsewhere fake.

IronGalaxy:
This is just propaganda, common criminality, foreigners killing each other, etc.. all put under the banner of "xenophobia"..
I can tell you for free, even at height of those 2008 protests, people weren't going around killing foreigners...it wasnt happening, its not happening now..

Well we certainly hope not.

At all events the scenes of violence against foreigners, whether killed or not, are of grave concern.

Booooooooooooo. Shameful people go home.

IronGalaxy:
You are saying people are dying left, right, and center due to xenophobic killings.. im calling BS of that because it ain't t happening.. you people just love being victims..

Well you are the one using the turn of phrase "left right and centre" - not me. But to deny that this has been a problem is playing the ostrich.

Let me extract information on some notable events here over the last decade.
--------------

Over the last five years, xenophobic violence in South Africa has evolved from sporadic, large-scale riots into more localized, targeted vigilante actions. This shift has been driven largely by organized groups—such as Operation Dudula and the Dudula Movement—conducting "door-to-door" citizenship checks, blocking hospital access, and raiding informal settlements.

Because local police often record these events as general homicides or public violence rather than logging a distinct "xenophobic" motive, comprehensive data relies heavily on human rights organizations like the African Commission on Human and Peoples' Rights (ACHPR) and Xenowatch.

Specific, high-profile killings of African migrants by South African vigilantes or mobs over the last five years include:

2026
The Johannesburg CBD Shootings (April 2026): A targeted string of attacks occurred within a single week in Johannesburg, specifically focusing on the Ethiopian diaspora. On April 27, 2026, a lone gunman walked into a McDonald's in the Central Business District and shot three Ethiopian nationals (aged 30 to 45) at close range while they were eating breakfast. Days prior, on April 25 and April 28, two other Ethiopian street vendors/migrants (one identified as Tofik) were gunned down in separate close-range targeted attacks in the city.

2025
The Alexandra Clinic Blockade (July 2025): While not a direct physical assault, human rights groups and political bodies classified this as an extrajudicial killing via systemic denial of care. Members of Operation Dudula blocked the entrances of public health facilities in Alexandra, Johannesburg, to prevent foreign nationals from receiving medical care. A one-year-old Malawian boy died after vigilantes physically blocked his parents from bringing him into two local government clinics because they could not produce a South African identity card. Murder charges were subsequently filed against the group's leadership.

2022
The Killing of Elvis Nyathi (April 2022): This remains one of the most prominent and widely condemned individual xenophobic murders of the decade. Elvis Nyathi, a 43-year-old Zimbabwean economic migrant and father of four, was living in the Diepsloot township north of Johannesburg. Following localized protests blaming foreign nationals for high crime rates, an angry mob roved through the township demanding to see residents' passports. When they entered Nyathi's yard, he attempted to flee. The mob dragged him out, beat and stoned him, poured a flammable liquid over him, and burnt him alive. Seven local men were later arrested and charged with his murder, kidnapping, and robbery.

2021
The July Unrest Attacks (July 2021): During the widespread civil unrest and looting that sparked across KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng following the imprisonment of former President Jacob Zuma, foreign nationals became secondary targets. Xenowatch and regional networks documented specific instances where foreign truck drivers from neighboring Southern African Development Community (SADC) countries (including Zimbabwe, Mozambique, and Malawi) were pulled from their vehicles, assaulted, or killed, and their trucks set on fire under the pretext of economic sabotage.

Broad Trends & Tracking Realities
Data from research bodies like the African Centre for Migration & Society (ACMS) highlights that the primary targets of these fatal attacks are almost exclusively black African migrants (primarily from Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Lesotho, Malawi, Nigeria, and Somalia) running informal shops (spaza shops) or living in impoverished townships.
------------------
Moving backwards further -

The KwaZulu-Natal Outbreak (April 2015): Triggered by highly publicized anti-immigrant rhetoric from local public figures, mobs targeted migrants in Durban and surrounding townships. Officially, seven people were killed (including citizens from Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, and Mozambique), thousands were displaced into temporary police camps, and neighboring nations deployed aircraft to evacuate their citizens.

The Murder of Emmanuel Sithole (April 18, 2015): In Alexandra township, Johannesburg, Emmanuel Sithole, a Mozambican street vendor, was confronted by local men who stole his goods. When he protested, he was chased, beaten with a wrench, and stabbed to death in broad daylight. The murder gained global infamy because it was captured frame-by-frame by a photojournalist, forcing the South African government to deploy the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) to the area to quell further violence.

Structural Observation
Over the ten-year period, data from monitoring groups like Xenowatch indicates that while the nationality of the victims shifts based on the specific neighborhood economy (e.g., Somali nationals in the Western Cape, Zimbabweans and Mozambicans in Gauteng, or Malawians in informal settlements), the driving catalysts remain identical: structural scapegoating for deep-seated domestic economic anxieties, high local unemployment, and gaps in community
--------------
Aside from this, you know that beyond killings, attacks have included shop burnings and violent assualts.

IronGalaxy:
Are you aware those are Ethiopian turf wars?
Show me the so called "xenophobic killings"...

Are you for one saying there have been none?

Lionessza6:
😂 Reading a Nigerian forum is not the same thing as obsessively centering Nigeria in every political, immigration, economic, and social discussion the way many of you do with South Africa.

The difference is very obvious.

South Africa lives rent-free in some of your heads 24/7, even while calling it primitive, xenophobic, uncivilized, and unbearable. That level of fixation is what we are laughing at.

Still you are the one here, not the other way round. Good night.

Lionessza6:
Moronic

So every migrant killed in SA is killed by South Africans?

https://www.ewn.co.za/2026/04/29/five-ethiopian-nationals-killed-in-suspected-targeted-hits-in-joburg-cbd


Ethiopians are known for killing and extorting each other all over SA ,the same way you're known for cult wars here .

As you have descended into insults, good evening.

IronGalaxy:
Who's been "killed" lets start there?

Is this a serious question which lionessza6 impulsively liked?
You are not for real. Well lets stick with recent ones.

--------------
April 27 (Johannesburg CBD): Three Ethiopian nationals (aged between 30 and 45) were shot and killed inside a McDonald’s restaurant in the Central Business District. A lone gunman entered the establishment while the victims were having breakfast and opened fire at close range before escaping.

April 25 (Johannesburg): An Ethiopian migrant identified as Tofik was shot and killed.

April 28 (Johannesburg): Another Ethiopian migrant was gunned down at close range near a street stall in an attack captured on CCTV.

Lionessza6:
It's nauseating actually . These people are annoying. I wonder why they find it so hard to just stay the hell away from SA🤔. The obsession is scary .

And who is the one lurking on a Nigerian Forum?

Lionessza6:
You keep trying to drag this into an emotional morality play because the original debate about the expired visa went nowhere.

Nobody denied that xenophobic violence exists in South Africa. Criminal violence exists everywhere and should be condemned. What I reject is the dishonest attempt to portray South Africa as uniquely barbaric while speaking from a country battling terrorism, mass killings, kidnappings, religious extremism, banditry, and deadly insecurity on a scale far beyond sporadic anti-immigrant unrest.

And please spare me the “primitive and uncivilized” line. That arrogance is exactly why many South Africans are tired of these conversations. Nigerians want the benefits and opportunities available in South Africa, yet constantly insult the country, lecture its citizens, and act morally superior at the same time.

Also, I never said every Nigerian in South Africa is a refugee. But let us not pretend large numbers of Africans are not leaving their countries because of economic collapse, insecurity, corruption, and lack of opportunity at home. People migrate toward opportunity abd security....that is simply reality.

At the end of the day, your billionaire still arrived with expired documents and South Africa still had every right to deny him entry. Everything after that became a long emotional detour.

You are too emotional.

IronGalaxy:
2The entitlement they have to our country is crazy

No one has any sense of entitlement to SA. Its not too much to ask that you quit xenophobic killings for example. Its waaaaay too much and too often. Also Rabiu saying what he said is not a sense of entitlement.

Lionessza6:
Maybe instead of constantly lecturing South Africans about how to run South Africa, Nigerians should spend more time asking why so many of their own citizens are desperate to leave Nigeria in the first place.

People do not migrate in massive numbers from functioning, stable, opportunity-filled countries. They leave because of corruption, insecurity, unemployment, collapsing infrastructure, poor governance, and lack of opportunity at home.

And South Africans will not be lectured by Nigerians about what South Africa’s “real problems” are or what South Africans should focus on, while Nigerians themselves are fleeing the conditions created by their own leadership and systems.

So spare South Africans the endless moral lectures while ignoring the failures that keep pushing Nigerians to seek better lives elsewhere ..... including in the very South Africa they claim to despise so much. Refugees don't get to make any rules or lecture anyone ,they take what they get.

Nigeria has grave problems of its own for sure. This does not mean it will ignore a situation where its people are being killed in SA in xenophobic violence - which is a repeated problem you need to own and resolve.

Mind you I hate to say it but it casts SA in very primitive and uncivilized light.

This does not mean we dont have our own issues. We do. Massive ones. Terrorist violence is terrible here, for example.
As you yourself noted, two things can be true at once.

Stop being overly defensive young lady.

And no, Nigerians are not refugees in SA. That is unnecessarily derogative and it looks like you are taking off your mask in saying such a terrible thing.

MaxInDHouse:
His name is YHWH.


Here is the scripture:



Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. ‭Isaiah 2:3 NIV‬
How can many peoples come and obey a law that's not WRITTEN?🤔


The Author said:
NO ADDITIONAL NO SUBTRACTION! Revelation 22:17


Let any other tribe present what their God told them there is no need arguing over what the God who called Himself the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob said! Exodus 3:15

If he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, please allow the Oduduwas, Okonkwos and Abduls to find their own God thank you.

Lionessza6:
There we go again .... the usual emotional blackmail.

Every time South Africa enforces immigration law or prioritises its own interests, suddenly apartheid, liberation struggles, and “Africa helped you” get dragged out as though South Africa must now surrender its borders forever in repayment.

Yes, apartheid left deep economic inequality and structural problems in South Africa. Nobody denies that. But pretending mass migration adds zero pressure onto unemployment, housing, healthcare, policing, infrastructure, and informal business competition is just dishonest.

Two things can be true at once: apartheid’s legacy still harms black South Africans, and large-scale migration into an already struggling economy can also create tensions. These are not mutually exclusive realities.

And Nigeria helping fight apartheid did not purchase permanent entitlement to South African immigration policy.

This “South Africa thinks it is Europe” line is also nonsense. South Africa negotiated visa-waiver agreements just like every other sovereign state does. Nigeria itself controls who enters its borders, who needs visas, and under what conditions.

Also, enough with pretending migration tensions are uniquely South African. Nigeria expelled millions of West Africans. Ghana and Nigeria have their own anti-foreigner history. Across Africa, countries become protective once migration pressures start affecting jobs, housing, and local economies.

So stop acting as though South Africa invented realities that exist across the continent.

If Africans want AU-wide free movement, then African governments must implement it collectively. Until then, South Africa is under no obligation to pretend a fully integrated African Schengen already exists.
And it is equally laughable that you speak as though anti-immigrant tensions magically disappeared from the rest of Africa after the 1980s while trying to present South Africa as uniquely defective.

The Nigeria-Ghana example was raised to prove a simple point: migration tensions under economic pressure are not uniquely South African and never have been.

And unlike Nigeria in the 1980s, South Africa today still hosts millions of African migrants, businesses, students, workers, and asylum seekers despite its own massive unemployment, inequality, housing shortages, and infrastructure strain rooted partly in apartheid’s legacy.

So spare us the selective morality where every African country’s migration politics are treated as “complex realities,” but South Africa’s are reduced to “xenophobia” and moral failure.

I hear you, you make some fair points. Several actually. But your people need to cool down on the xenophobic violence. I saw a video the other day were guns were being shot in the presence of school children because they were children of foreign Africans. I could have wept.

Face your white oppressor more decisively. Africans are not your problem. Last I checked its whites who own over 70 per cent of your land, not other Africans.

Lionessza6:
Then people should also worry whether many other African countries would genuinely endorse full continental free movement once migration pressures increase on them too.

Because South Africa is not the only country on this continent with anti-immigrant sentiment, deportations, border tensions, or hostility toward foreigners. Nigeria expelled millions of West Africans in the 1980s. Ghanaian-Nigerian tensions are well documented. Across Africa, countries become far less “Pan-African” once large-scale migration starts affecting jobs, housing, crime, or local business competition.

So constantly presenting South Africa as uniquely problematic while ignoring the continent’s broader history with migration is dishonest.

And yes, Rabiu was within his rights to point out the contradiction. But that contradiction exists because African governments collectively ... including Nigeria’s ....have still not built the AU-wide mobility system they keep talking about.

And if South Africa does not endorse it, then fine .... require visas for South Africans too. Tit for tat. That is how sovereign states operate anyway.

But the rest of Africa also cannot keep acting as though one country at the southern tip of the continent is somehow preventing 50+ other African states from opening their borders to each other. Nothing stops the rest of you from implementing broader African mobility among yourselves right now. 💁‍♀️🤣

The issue seems to be SA's perception of itself as the Europe within Africa.

This is sad as SA's problems with economically disadvantaged blacks has more to do with white advantage from the Apartheid past and not with fellow Africans - many of whose countries fought alongside SA for its liberation. Nigeria went to extraordinary lengths such as nationalizing Oil Companies like Shell over Apartheid.

And it is laughable that you have to reach forty years back to find Nigeria acting the same way against Ghana.

Lionessza6:
Exactly. And Nigeria is fully within its rights to require visas from Europeans if that serves its interests.

But here is the irony: Nigerians themselves also require visas for virtually all European countries, while South Africans enjoy visa-free access to several of them because South Africa negotiated those agreements.

So this is clearly not about race or “Africans being hated.” It is about diplomacy, bilateral agreements, passport strength, reciprocity, and state policy.

You cannot defend Nigeria’s sovereign visa policies on one hand, accept Europe’s visa restrictions on Nigerians on the other, then act morally outraged when South Africa also applies its own immigration agreements and laws.

The real “oddity” is that Africans keep blaming South Africa for a continental integration failure created by African governments collectively .... including Nigeria’s own government.

I didnt bring up race or say Africans were hated (even though significant groups of people in SA clearly have xenophobic issues with other Africans). Pleadse dont put words into my mouth.

My position is simply that Rabiu was right to point it out as an oddity and he did so at the right kind of forum and yes, the AU should consider sorting it out. I believe there is something in the pipeline. One would be right to worry if SA would endorse it though, given he amount of xenophobic violence in SA.

bemeruca:
Be there and always expect someone to feed you. Don't do things for yourself. Stay lazy

I had a look through and the best I could see was this -

https://www.nairaland.com/4508641/american-politics-thread-trump-47th/4056#128920437

Still not concrete though.

Its either you bring the proof or forget it. Its not important anyway.

bemeruca:
Yeah. For you it's normal 😂

Seriously you havent proved it.