₦airaland Forum

logicboy: I might not understand PastorAIO but I sure know something important about you. You are an empty shell of a human being that needs to be subservient to another being before feeling any self worth in life.

If PastorAOI is too lazy or proud to explain his belief to me directly, then he should be ready to shoulder the burden of the consequences. He shouldnt need you or links to defend his beliefs.

Thanks for being a stooge

Palaver. Thought I was helping your inquiries. You are welcome sha. Good luck.

Pastor AIO: I wonder if anyone here is actually reading any of the write ups that I'm writing or am I just wasting my time. Has there ever been a religious war that didn't have a strong political dimension?

Generally agree, but there have been some wars in history with overtly religious agendas.

But you are on point sha.

Well done! I am elated by the fact that someone is interested enough in this to write up so much as you have done.

@ Logicboy, it seems to me you simply dont have the patience to read the links which Pastor AIO placed up there for you. As one who has gone to extensive lengths to understand him, I can relate with your frustrations. I do however recommend that you look up those links. But just as a guide for you, let me tell you a few things straight up -

1. The word "Pastor" in his username has nothing to do with what you might think

2. If by the word "christian" you refer to one who believes in biblical infallibility and the motions and forms of the religion, count him out. This chap has on many occassions argued ardently against things which people cite in the Bible, including the ontology of the Judaic god(s). Substance weighs over form for him.

3. If by the word "christian" you refer to one who subcribes to the teachings of christ and seeks to emulate christ, yes he would call himself Christian.

Generally, you need to slow down. This chap is a hydra-headed monster of "staggering" (wink, Pastor) brilliance, knowledge, humour and complexity. It might take sometime to come to some faint grips with him. All I can tell you is DO NOT make assumptions regarding him at all!

I recall noetic even branded him deist, although he is anything but. Although I understand why noetic said that.

For strictly physical energy, yes.

It cannot explain the obvious spiritual energies inherent in our reality.

^ But when one considers the enigma of eternity, from what point, and to what point would God be evolving?

If God itself were evolving, then God could not be self-existent.

That would instantly sweep away the God-notion, and also create a great many philosophical problems - such as the enigma of a default state of matter "just existing" - which for me is impossible as matter does not have the properties of self-existent things.

AlvinPlantinga: It is possible to show with argumentation that the existence of God is highly unlikely.Absolute Certainty is not a prerequisite for proving the truth or falsehood of a claim.

Alright, can you kinldy go ahead to "show with argumentation that the existence of GOD is unlikely."

Every piece of logic, commonsense, science and reason available to mankind renders the reverse more compelling: that the existence of God is more likely than unlikely.

[quote author=m_nwankwo]The analogy of the sun and its rays is a crude analogy meant to convey a concept of God, and the effect that God is. Just like sunbeams are a natural effect that the sun is, so are divine radiations a natural effect of God. The lesson in the analogy is that effect is not the same thing as the cause of the effect. If you imagine for instance the photosynthesis that results in several different species of plant are dependent on the sun rays. In an orange, a bunch of banana or a tuber of yam, you will not see elements in the sun rays in these food stuffs. The "energy" in the sun rays have been transformed to these different foodstuffs. To get a concept I am trying to convey in the crude analogy, then imagine God as the sun, the divine radiations as the sun rays and the various plant foods I have mentioned as different creations. In this analogy the sun beams have always existed with the sun because it is a direct natural effect of the sun but the various plant foods have not always existed with the sun and its rays because they are an after effect of the effect of the sun. Thus God and his divine radiations are eternal but the creations of God that arose when God willed some of his divine radiations to cool off and precipitate into various creations (both spiritual and material) are not abinitio eternal since they have a beginning. God can borrow or loan them "eternity" if the follow the will of God, the creator.[/quote]I am just seeing this last response from you five months after. Excellent explanation. I think it delivers your point to perfection. However let us look at these divine radiations and the fact that they are co-eternal with God itself: does this mean that they eternally spawn creations (which will mean some sort of creations have eternally existed) or that the radiations only coalesce into creations if expressly willed by the mind of the creator?

Would such "express willing" be consistent with immutability of the creator?

I think I once discussed acts of intervention with you and justcool as being inconsistent with an adamantine and immutable God.

I have previously stated that reflections, effects, images, or vestiges of the divine radiations of God are found in creation and the human spirit is one of the innumerable beings that are these reflections. However these reflections or vestiges have no iota of the unsustantiate divine substance that is in God for the simple reason that infinity(God) cannot be found in what is finite (creations). Neither can that which is finite be found in what is infinite. Stay blessed.

Well put.

plaetton: But i do not ,with certainty, believe in a creator like all thiests.

Read this sentence again - very carefully. Especially the bolded.

Do you see what you have said.

Def not an atheist.

i believe that the universe most likely did not need a creator. Doesn't that make me an athiest?

Yes, and your posts have disclosed you as a breed of pantheist.

Pantheism is the view that the Universe (or Nature) and God (or divinity) are identical.[1] Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god. The word derives from the Greek (pan) meaning "all" and the Greek (theos) meaning "God". As such, pantheism denotes the idea that "God" is best seen as a process of relating to the Universe.[2] The central ideas found in almost all pantheistic beliefs are the view of the Cosmos as an all-encompassing unity and the sacredness of Nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

pls read the link

Well I am not Christian but I can offer you the standard christian excuse to this matter: it goes as follows: Jesus was not really saying John was Elias, he was only speaking metaphorically, that John will have the "spirit and power" of Elias. As such he was not contradicting John when John said he was not Elias.

That is normal Christian escapism. Anything that chritians dont accept in scripture, they call metaphorical, whilst anything that tallies with their beliefs is called literal.

I will urge you review the different arguments on this thread on Reincarnation in the Bible -

https://www.nairaland.com/385353/reincarnation-deepsight-lets-talk-here

plaetton: An agnostic is an athiests who still in the closet.

Oh no no, the Agnostic says he cannot know and does not know: and indeed the matter remains unknowable. That is not atheism.

For a long time, I called myself an agnostic because, subconsciously, I was afraid to admit or face the facts that god might simply not exist. Over time, I began to accept the the existence of god as a NOTION rather than as a fact.
No disrepect to agnostics, but I think its a state of confusion where one feels safe to be neutral. Once you reject the judeo-christian concepts of devinity, even if you still hold on to the belief in a supreme creator and source of all things,as long as you agree that it is just a NOTION, then we are all on the same side.lol.

Oh no no no again, you are no atheist: you are well known to be a breed of pantheist.

deols: the good thing to do would have been to ask for the genesis of this. Many people dig their own graves by such acts as this, making conclusions from what they have no knowledge of.

I heard it was about someone threatening the admin, but I guess you could brief me better?

Another wrong assumption. many atheists and christians have been posting here. People who aim to torment trouble and speak ills of the prophet get their posts deleted. they get warnings and bans if they desist.
If guarding what is yours, preventing it from slander and blasphemy means intolerance, So be it. I wonder if u'll pat the man who insults ur folks at the back rather than making him see sense so he doesnt do it again. The fact that you accord ur so called holy book no respect doesnt mean we shouldnt ours. Your Jesus can be spoken with in any ways and because you care less, u gave it a cover, freedom of expression and we are to follow suit??

Please dont mis-understand me or make assumptions - I am not a Christian.

you are being unnecessarily cynical. that is very childish, I must say.


I assume it isnt too hard to see that the term, freedom of speech is relative. if a man can be jailed for insulting a Queen, what more of insulting a prophet of God. the least we can have in such a case is a section for Muslims an if you want yours, simply demand it.

Do you think it is proper to ban people from preaching about their beliefs in this age?

Thanks.

Many thanks for your comments.

vedaxcool: Wary? On an annonymous site like this? I think this sort of propagaanda is very shallow and seems to have been repeated over and over again make me wonder whether brain washing does not subtlu occur on NL and believe me I mean no insults, but we remain surprised whenever people who have witness very anti-Islamic threads on NL make strange claims that people are wary or Islam when every now and then we are being attacked by mannerless individuals who are never "wary" to make their opinions of islam known. It remains funny that actions taken by NL owner can now be interpreted to be actions taken Islam, now we keep hearing oh seun was threatened oh he was bla bla so now the actions taken bu certain individual or s has suddenly be interpreted as Islam issuing threats we asked why this shallow reduction of common sense? Did we as Muslims on NL issue the threat? So whatever decision taken by seun can be seen as administrative decision that lies on his hand. Let me tell u certain facts that u might not know there are possibly hundreds of such sites like NL, I know sunni sites like these where u see shias freely expressing their opinions and likewise shia sites like these where the reverse also occur, and in some cases the views are not the type each party takes likely yet it does not come down to threat or so on, hence we could say possibly the situation of NL is very much unique to our context in Nigeria and maybe u should visit 2go were people do far worse . . . Is it logical to judge Islam based on NL? I leave it to u to answer.

Okay.

Islam permits free speech and rights to express ones opinion on subject, but limits it when it cannot be of benefit to the society take freedom to slander other people, no one will be happy if they are slandered likewise Islam would not guarantee such rights thta very much a wrong. In addition Islam does not permit blasphemy where people go in their way to insult God.

Is it allowed for a Christian perhaps to preach his religion freely and openly in Saudi Arabia?

If not, why?

Islam guarantees freedom of religion, thought and conscience.

Is it permitted for a muslim to renounce Islam?

Concise answers please.

Thank you.

I would like to respectfully discuss the question of tolerance in Islam. My personal feeling is that the very fact that NL had to open a section reserved for muslims is very telling. To be very honest, any discerning person should recognize that that fact alone is worrisome. It indicates that people are generally wary of the adherents of this religion. That, my friends, is not healthy for your religion.

Do you not think that you need to very sincerely meditate on this issue. It is critical, if you wish to live peacefully in a heterogenuos society and world, that you open yourselves to basic freedoms enjoyed as fundamental rights everywhere in the world.

Can we openly, fairly discuss these in Islam -

1. Freedom of Speech

2. Freedom of Religion, Thought and Conscience

We can take these two only.

As I understand that non-muslims are not to post on this board, save with the permissive discretion of the mods (which again is very telling) I will discuss this with maximum respect, but also with maximum honesty.

Let me just say that if this thread is locked just because we seek to discuss this issue, that would truly be poetic: because it would underscore the very point being raised here.

Cheers.

Yeah, but that's tradition. In practical terms, its secular enough.

Islam is despicable in its absurd and murderous degree of intolerance.

The very fact that there is a separate section for Islam is a shame and disgrace to every muslim: it tells to what extent their religion has instilled murderoua fear and paranoia in the minds of others. Such a religion can never command respect anywhere in the civilised world.

Is it any wonder that Churches and even mere bibles are prohibited in Saudi Arabia right into the 21st century?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_Saudi_Arabia

That says it all. Barbarism.

David's tough, so i'd imagine he would be able to take as good as he gives.

If true, I will be deeply disconcerted by this. But I will reserve my further comments until we hear from Jesoul on her reasons for banning you. If it was simply as you stated it, then there will be alot to be heard from me. But I must reserve my comments until Jesoul explains better.

BTW, i hope we will not suddenly find this thread locked. That really will negate the very essence of a forum - open and free communication. Thanks not to do that, mods.

I must say that Davidylan is on point when he talks about the irritating attitude of many atheists whose only response is "go and research". . . .

Reminds me of my good buddy Jayriginal

^^^ HA, EXCERCISE CAUTION O, i found that admiring Pastor AIO's undeniable brilliance is, in his opinion, a treasonable offence, for which he may decide to slap you, or scandalize your innocuous private communication.

cyrexx: dear mr jmoore,
pls be honest in answering this question below:
how will you feel if another person from another religion came to preach to you and say his God is the only true God and the God you had been worshipping is an idol according to his own holy book. and he didn't stop there but goes on to say if you dont believe him,you will spend billions and billions of years burning in the lake of fire with no hope of getting out for the singular crime of not believing what his God says in His holy book?

a honest answer to this question will appreciated. thanxx

This is so brilliantly and simply worded, i just love it.

Truth bro!

BUT MARK MY WORDS: YOUY WILL NEVER, NEVER NEVER, GET A SIMPLE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION!

Where is chukwudi44 to answer this one?

^ Wud be hard to watch or even load an hour long video. Is there a transcribed version that we can read?

@ Garyarnorld, I dont think I have ever seen you comment on a non-tithe topic. Whats the obsession?

musKeeto: @Deep Sight:
What are your religious beliefs?

I am not religious. I believe in the existence of an eternal creative element which I understand to be God. I believe in mankind's spirituality. However I do not believe in the judeo-christian/ arabic precepts of God. I beleive that Jesus was an ordinary human being like you or me. If I were forced to pik a religion, it would probably be buddhism.

^^^ That is exactly what I do. People are always saying that my prayer is too short and as such, not "spiritual" enough. My ex used to demand prayer sessions and I would offer a short, almost one-liner. She would do her part by first reading a bible passage, then singing several praise songs, before launching into a long combative prayer in which every member of both our families is individually prayed for. Cute, but tiresome.

I suffered a heart attack about ten years ago and very nearly died. In the traumatic moments when my best friend rushed me to the hospital and snatched back my life from a few seconds to death, I never for once called on Jesus. I did, however, call on the ETERNAL GOD. That experience convinced me that not even a lifetime of indoctrination can change the mind of he who is truly convinced that a teaching is false. I did not believe the teachiing about Jesus being God or praying through Jesus, and at the most critical moment of my need, I still did not feel compelled to call out to him. Nor will I ever.

Could it be that the legend related in Genesis regarding the fall of man in Eden is not a reference to an event that occured in this world, but rather describes the departure of the spirit of mankind from the eternal spiritual realm into the world of matter?

This would tally with many things. A forbidden fruit would be the world of matter. Entering into it would bring about knowledge of good and evil, as presumably there is no evil in the realm from which the spirit came. Or there is just pure neutrality. Casting out man from the garden would be sending the spirit out of the spiritual realm into the world of matter. Wearing animal skins is a clear indicator of the physical bodies that man must wear to live in the physical world. Such bodies bear close resemblances to animal bodies. It is instructive that the fruit is given by the woman, since it is by women that we are born into the world of matter. On top of all that God promises that if man eats the fruit he shall die. It is certain that death is only known to man once he has entered the world of matter. Above all the reference to the Lord God strolling in the Garden and communing daily with man there on a one to one basis indicates that this was a spiritual realm where God's presence was.

Most instructively however, the TREE OF LIFE was said to reside in the garden. Crucially, it is said to be guarded by cherubs and a flaming sword after the fall of man. That says it all; it could not have been this earth. It was another realm. The ultimate realm.

What is wrong with Ishtar anyway? I certainly worship Ishtar, that's for sure.

When in EVERY SINGLE movie, more than 20 minutes is occupied with the gateman opening the gate for oga to drive inside his mansion

This has to be the stoopideest thread I have ever seen on this forum.

@ Jayriginal and Aletheia -

Please refer to my post to wirinet above.

Both of you also introduced qualifications. Jay qualified by saying "western music" - what sorts of music abound in the world outside the western world - not to speak about the earth, and then, the universe, and then, all existence?

Aleth qualified by saying "the human tongue" - what sorts of music may be produced by a further evolved human tongue perhaps? Or even a non human tongue? Are the only sounds we make limited to the tongue? Have we conceived of all possible musical instruments in the universe? Will we ever?