₦airaland Forum

obadiah777: FROM ABOVE QUOTES YOU CAN SEE THE SPIRIT DOES LEAD SOME PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE WORD OF LIFE

does the spirit lead just everyone according to you away.

who are the set of people that are liable to be lead away

does Jesus fall into the category of the above question.

alexis: Are you making any sense at all? Sit down and listen to yourself.

1. The Bible that Christians have is corrupt. It is not the original Injeel/gospel given to Jesus [Allah never made this claim - muslims like you do]
2. The original Injeel/Gospel is LOST - So, if it is lost how do we know it is the ORIGINAL ONE?
3. How can you accuse ALL christians around the whole world of using a CORRUPTED BIBLE yet you can't back it up with one AUTHENTIC VERSION
4. How did it get LOST? Surely, if Allah can preserve the Quran, He should be able to preserve the Injel that he gave Jesus - no?
5. Who lost it? Since you know it got lost - Can you tell us who lost it so we can perhaps trace and try and figure out some "remnants" of the "LOST" and "TRUE" Injeel.

In all honesty, you keep going around in circles. You and I know that you are UNABLE TO provide ANY direct link to the lost Injeel because it never existed. Allah never said it got lost - Muslims did.

In Summary, if you can't provide the "lost" injeel, it is as good as it never EXISTED and the attempts of accusing the Christian bible of corruption has no basis. It's a simple concept, provide proof and backup your CLAIM. Until then, your statement is invalid. God bless you

bro. pls make them know that they are dining, swimming and living on false ASSUMPTIONS that can not be confirmed true.
if someone doesnt tell them. they wunt know. so pls enlighten them



MORE OIL TO YOUR ELBOW.

great thanks to brother Alexis. you are doing such a great job. am learning alot from you.

by the way where is Mac and Lanrexlan, have you be able to get the "original" injeel. i just cant wait to see it

before i continue permit me to dig up this from this thread

kq: @deSika so one of your arguments says that because the Prophet's grandpa who was an idolator named his son Abdullah and since Abdullah means servant of Allah and him being an idolator then Allah is an idol.


I really dont know where you got your story from that the Arabs referred to one of their deities as Allah when they had a pantheon of gods just like the greeks. even each family or tribe has or had its own god they dedicated themselves to. SO EVEN IF ONE TRIBE REFERRED TO HUBAL AS AL-ILAH does that mean another tribe accepted that? Besides if an Arab christian tells you that God in the Arabic language is Allah can you claim to know the language more than speaker? here is a challenge can you provide the etymology of the word Allah then?

my guy its sufficient for you and me to know that atleast one tribe referred to Hubal as Allah. but guess wat. it was not only one tribe.

NOW THIS is what i am talking about here. this guy here somehow agrees with me that Hubal would have been referred to as Al ilah. this is all i have been saying Allah was worshipped by pagans before Islam.

obadiah777: YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES. WHY WOULD I FOLLOW YOUR HERESY JUST TO PROVE TO YOU I AM TEACHABLE ?

so how do you explain the fact that the spirit cannot lead someone to the absence of the word of life (fast). as Jesus cannot be said to be among the category of non firstfruits that are blinded according to you.

ayenny02: FROM UR EXPLANATION, PLS TELL ME WHERE THE BIBLE CALLED THEM CHRISTIANS OR JEW THOSE WHO PERFOMED WHAT U HAVE JUST EXPLAINED S?

Back ur answer with reference from bible

brother is this how you answer all those questions. you have to do better than this.
i wud ask you to do me the favor that do to you. highlight my responses annd answer them. thank you.

you may need to learn one or two things from your colleague lanrexlan.he engages me in a more sophisticated manner than you do. Salaam

@ayenny02
you said the 5 pillars are in the bible. i guess you thought the bible is a person and as such if the five pillars are in it thenn you are just fine.

my friend. just incase you dont know the bible does not represent one persons viewpoint. we can find alot of people at different times in the bible. so my friend i wud appreciate if you cud pick one person from the bible and show me where he did these things that represent islam today.
where you cannot do this. then you would have to be honest with yourself and agree that you people have assumed wrongly on these so called prophets

and i see that you are still bringing up Moses and Aaron. after i have showed you why they cannot be muslims. yes they washed themselves but is that all they did as regards worship. No. if muslims dont worship their God as these Moses and Aaron did then am afraid that youve got the wrong guys.

that psalm 84 seems to say as they pass through and not go to Baca. pass through means they were going somewhere annd baca was not their destination[if you engage a little reasoning you wud not be having problems with me seriously]

you said i shud tell you all those were they not in the bible. my friend those are not only things in the bible for example i told you that Moses and Aaron used burnt offerings, incense etc but u seem to ignore that part and only see where they wash themselves. u are not being truthful to your self.

see if washing is a similirality between Moses and muslims then there must be other similarities but this is what is dificult for yu to understand. MOSES IS NOT A MUSLIM BECAUSE HE SERVED HIS GOD IN A DIFERENT WAY.

i also wonder why u dont take for muslims those pagan that wash themselves before commencing worship. your answer wud be becus they do other things which are pagan and this is exactly wat am trying to say. Moses did some other things that Muslims dont do

oops batry low

did u also know that those people you showed up there did some things that muslims dont do. this is why i say they cant be muslims.

ayenny02: I can now see your level of reason, here we go again;

5 pillars of Islam in the Bible


1. To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but God and Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.

2. To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.

3. To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) .

4. To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca)

5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.


The same 5 pillars of Islam exist in the Bible.

1.“To Testify that none has the right to be worshipped but God

28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one 30.Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.(Mark 12:28-30)

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3)

“Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only” (Mathew 4:10)

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” (Deuteronomy 6:4)



2. To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.

The most important part of the prayer is prostration. We put our forehead on the ground and say “Subhan-e-Rabi al A’ala” which means “Glory be to the Lord who is Most High”. All the Prophets of God did the prostration before the Almighty INCLUDING JESUS (pbuh). The Bible says

And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying…(Genesis 17:3)

And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them (Numbers 20:6)

And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, (Mathew 26:39)

There is no better way of falling on the face and praying to God then the Muslims do. This is how we Muslims pray by falling on the face.

Nehemiah 8:4-6
4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.

5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

6 And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the Lord with their faces to the ground.


(MY QUESTION FOR YOU, HOW MANY CHRISTIAN OR JEWS PERFORME THIS?)



3. To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) .

Its 2.5% on wealth that is above the nisab level i.e. 85 grams of gold. The reason for the Zaka’at the Quran gives is, so that the wealth does not circulate only among the rich people (Quran 59:7)

The Bible says
“2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,” (Mathew 6:2-3)

“And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.” (I Peter 4:


4. To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca)
Every adult Muslim who is healthy and can afford it is obliged to perform the pilgrimage to the Holy city of Mecca atleast once in his life time. It’s the best example of universal brotherhood in the world where nearly 3 million people gather together and men are dressed up in two peaces of unsown cloth preferably white. One cannot identify the person standing next to him whether he is a king or a pauper, master or a servant. It’s the best practical example of universal brotherhood. The mention of Mecca is also there in the Bible.


“5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. 6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.” (Psalms 84:5-6)

(MY QUESTION FOR YOU, HOW MANY CHRISTIAN OR JEWS PERFORME THIS?)


Baca is another name for Mecca in the Qur’an
“The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka” (Quran 3:96)

5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.
A Muslim is obliged to fast for one whole month of Ramadan from sunrise to sunset. The Quran says

“O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,-“ (Quran 2:183)

The purpose of fasting is to create self-restraint and piety and get the human being closer to Almighty God. Jesus Christ also fasted and commanded to do so.

“And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.” (Mathew 4:2)

“16"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” (Mathew 6:16-


TELL ME NOW, ALL THOSE THAT I MENTIONED ABOVE WAS IT NOT IN BIBLE AND HOW MANY CHRISTIANS OR JEWS PERFORME THIS?

obviously you dont understand my op.
the op seeks to find out where Each prophet did the five pillars. keyword: EACH. YOU are showing where one does one pillar. do you know that there are non muslims who do one pillar could they be said to be muslims as they dont regard Allah and Muhammad but they fast. they give charity etc

talk2me006: thank you vedaxcool. am very very happy the way you counter this desika.
i gained alot in this thread .I hav acquired more weapon of knowledge to counter desika and co.

guy dont make me laugh. did you notice that Mr Ved ran away.
pls humor me. what and what did you gain

i happened to see this. and so i will treat it

lanrexlan: Brother as I said your reasoning isn't that high,just hate islam with passion no problem.Answers to your question it's mentioned in surah Al-baqarah 2;125-127 that abraham(pbuh) and Ismail(pbuh) built the kabba read it up yourself.[/quran]
would you be nice to explain to me why Muhammad changed the qiblah (direction of prayer) from Kabba to Jerusalem and then back to Mecca. seems to me he was not sure of the real and authentic house built by Abraham. if he was so sure of the Kabba then there wud have been no change
[quote author=lanrexlan]Brother a muslim is someone that submits his will to ALLAH.

. this is what the thread is all about educating non muslims. now educate us. what is this will of Allah that one submits to. if Jesus submits to Gods will by die on the cross would still consider him a muslim since he is doing the will of God.

lanrexlan: You said adam(pbuh) never prayed in the kabba,he's not a muslim that's a lie.Being a muslim then doesn't mean one must prayer in the kabba the first quality of a muslim is tauhid(oneness of God) and all prophets of ALLAH believed in his oneness.

do you know that jews believ in oneness of God can i say they are muslims too. the native doctor believes in oneness of god his idol god can i also call him a muslim. yu are educating non muslims. guess what a satanist beleives in a oneness of God

lanrexlan: To the prayer,the most important part of SOLAT(prayer) is the sujood(prostration)and most or all of the prophets made sujood jesus(pbuh) also made sujood,when he prayed to God at the gate of gethsame asking him to let the cup pass over him(matthew 26;39).

its not enough for you to say prophets prostrated. you gat to show us where. for now this Jesus is not a muslim as the God he was prostrating to was a God that begets.

lanrexlan: Prophet muhammed(pbuh) is last and final messenger of ALLAH,the perfector of the religion of ALLAH,so ALLAH gave him and his followers the 5 daily prayers.As ALLAH said in the glorious quran surah Al-maidah 5;3-'today,i have perfected your religion for you,completed my favors upon you and have chosen islam for you as your religion'.

pls can i refer you to this thread where it was shown that he is not the last prophet. as that is outside the scope of this thread pls visit the thread for more
www.nairaland.com/1261672/mohamed-really-last-prophet

lanrexlan: All the prophets(peace be upon them all) do give charity,they all observe fasts(not necessary to be in the month of ramadan).

u no this is wat am actually asking. pls show where they did all these. not where one person did one because i can show you many non muslims who do atleast one of the pillars of islam. thank you

lanrexlan: To the circumambulating around the kabba in an unclad state ALLAH said in the glorious quran surah Al-araf 7;28-'and they committed a evil deed,going round the kabba in a naked state,great sins and unlawful sexual intercourse,they say;we found our fathers doing it and ALLAH has commanded it on is.Say;ALLAH never command such thing.Do you say of ALLAH why you know not?''.

if you read my post u wud notice i said the circumambulation was a pagan practise unclad or clad it was a pagan practise

lanrexlan: We face the kabba because our lord(ALLAH) commands us to do so,take it or leave it. How won't it makes a difference when I told you it's not possible for an idol worshipper to stand on his god,they stood on the black stone make the call for prayer(adhan)on it,you are adamant...That's the answers to your question brother.

ok may be i should show u again why i say that

read this
One day when the Quraysh had assembled on a feast day to venerate and circumambulate the idol to which they offered sacrifices, this being a feast which they held annually, four men drew apart secretly and agreed to keep their counsel in the bonds of friendship. They were Waraqa b.Naufal, Ubaydullah b.Jahsh, whose mother was Umayma d.'Abdu'l Muttalib, Uthman b.al- Huwayrith and Zayd b.'Amr. They were of the opinion that their people had corrupted the religion of their father Abraham, and that the stone they went round was of no account, it could neither hear nor see, nor hurt nor help. ``Find yourselves a religion,'' they said, ``for by God you have none.'' So they went their ways seeking the ``Hanaffiya'' -- the religion of Abraham." (Ibn Ishaq, Life of Muhammad, tr. Guillaume, p. 99)

these guys were condemning circumbulation and the stone.

as it stands bro. those examples cannot be said to be muslims
because they worship their God in a quite differernt way as muslims do.

therefore i can safely conclude that there were no muslims in the bible

now if there were no muslims in the bible and no muslims in saudi arabia before Muhammad then i think its safe for me to conclude that there were no muslims before Muhammad.

and therefore the statement that Moses, Adam and co were muslim prophets is a blatant lie. now if the quran makes this claim it also therefore means that the quran is a liar of a book.



its still deSika......seeking truth

now lets go to the bible to see if there is any record of how early muslims worshiped their Allah

lanrexlan: Brother,i have answered all your questions just go back and check the thread.Let me proof the 5pillars of islam from the bible.

yea bro, thanks for answering them but we have to do a little reasoning to know if your answers are correct. so lets begin



#first of all i would like to show you what you are doing. you are picking single points from different places in the bible to prove your points. you pick shadadah from Jesus statement then jump over to exodus to pick solat and then jump over to Nehemiah a different person entirely to pick fasting. i was just wondering if you could settle down and show me where for example Adam did the five pillars or you pick Moses or Jesus and show where he did all the five pillars.
NOW GET THIS: WHERE YOU CANNOT DO THE ABOVE. THEN AM AFRAID TO TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY PROGRESS AS YOU CAN NOT SHOW WHERE FOR EXAMPLE JESUS DID ALL FIVE OF THE PILLARS.

lanrexlan: (1)Shahadah(oneness of God)-deuteronomy 6;4,mark 12;29.

in mark 12:29 Jesus said there is one God. in Mark 13:1 Jesus goes to a temple. do you mind telling me whether muslims go to a temple. pls note that a temple has a priest and levites and no imams. they make use of burnt offerings, bread, arks, burnt offerinngs etc. people who worship in a temple do not pray towards Kabba. NOW TELL ME WHEN DID A MUSLIM START ATTENDING A TEMPLE WHERE THE ABOVE THINGS ARE USED.
[ONCE you can answer this question men then you would have proven a point]

lanrexlan: (2)SOLAT(prayers)nehemiah 8;4-6,exodus 31;8,numbers 20;6,genesis 17;3,matthew 26;39,revelation 7;11.

do you know what. Lets go to nehemiah 8:2 it reads 'and Ezra the PRIEST brought the law before the congregation' BROTHER CAN YOU TELL ME HOW PRIESTS ARE MUSLIMS. Now do muslims read the law of muslims. No. So my friend what are you actually saying. What makes Priest Ezra to be a muslim. If Priest Ezra read the law of Moses and was a muslim then i put it to you thatt you are not a muslim as you dont read the law of Moses in your mosques rather you castigate that same law to have been corrupted

Matt 26:39
And he went a little farther and fell on his face and prayed saying O my father.

Now my friend be honest to yourself and answer this question. The Allah dat muslims worship is he a father. No bro. Allah does not beget so how can a man who prays to father God be a muslim. Your points are not even helping you. You need to think before you make posts.

lanrexlan: (3)Zakat-mark 12;41

That verse talks about people casting money into a treasury. Do you know what. All churches all over the world does this same thing. So i guess we can call these church people muslims becos as it is they do this same casting money thing. I think i just learnt something now and that is ALL CHURCH PEOPLE ARE MUSLIMS AS THEY CAST MONEY INTO TREASURY. The only way yu can help yursef here is if you can show me where these same people where engaging the other pillars. But for nnow fowl fowl fowl fowllll

lanrexlan: (4)Fasting-Jeremiah 36;9

the same as above bro. If only fasting qualifies Jeremiah to be a muslim then i can tell you that all the folks at mountain of fire church are muslims. This is getting really good

lanrexlan: (5)Hajj-isaiah 2;2,galatians 4;22-25

isaiah 2:3....come ye let us go up to the MOUNTAIN OF THE LORD to the house of the God of Jacob.......for out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the Lord from JERUSALEM. Lets rewind back to verse one: The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning JUDAH and JERUSALEM.

My bro the mountain that nations would go to is not Mecca but JERUSALEM as is clearly seen above.
And one begins to wonder that if a jew becomes a muslim he would have to go to Mecca and clearly disobey this verse. What else could you call leading astray but this.

lanrexlan: Feel free to read my posts about your questions....Peace brother.

Guess yu thought i wud take all you said and not go back to verify for my self. Now am not that zombie-ish.

#bro those your examples failed woefully. In mtns voice 'your points are not sensible pls try again later
Now'

let me ask you again.CAN SOMEONE WHO ENGAGES ONE PILLAR OF ISLAM BE SAID TO BE A MUSLIM
[note: some church people just finished a 1 week fasting and prayer programme can i call them muslims]

[quote author=the_Seeker][/quote]uhn? deSika meets the_Seeker nice to meet you bro. *extends handshake* Salaam aleikun

It is rather unfortunate that we cannot get the records of how early muslims worshiped their God from the quran(the supposed complete verbatim word of Allah) but we have to resort to somthing that has been labeled corrupted [according to muslims] to get this information.

I have said it before and I say it again. YOU GUYS MUST OF A NECESSITY GIVE MORE CREDIT TO THE BIBLE THAN YOU ARE PRESENTLY DOING


*#AS IT STANDS NOW,
we do not have any knowledge of early muslims worship in Saudi Arabia. So we can safely conclude that there were no muslims in Saudi Arabia before Muhamed. ok


*#we have to go to the bible to find our early muslims examples. So lets go there now and see if early muslims were in the bible.

mobi5592: .
@desika, you are truly a God sent- teaching and correcting with love. God bless you

amen o

obadiah777: YOU ARE BRINGING IN NEW VERSES ABOUT HUMANS. ISRAELITES WERE REPROBATE BY NATURE AND DID NOT WANT TO FOLLOW GODS WAYS HENCE WHY THEY GOT PUT UNDER THE DEUTERONOMY CURSES. SO YOU CANT STARVE A PERSON OF SOMETHING THEY DONT WANT. I AM SURE THEY WOULD BE HAPPY NOT TO SEE THE SCRIPTURES SO THEY CAN CARRY ON THEIR REPROBATE LIFESTYLE

THE VERSE ABOUT JESUS AND THIS ONE YOU JUST BROUGHT UP ARE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS

my guy Jesus was quoting from that old testament passage in his response to the devils temptations.

u know wat i wud oblige you to do now. accept that ur interpretation is wrong and follow on with the right interpretations. by doing this you will show that you have a teachable spirit like i said before.

#the bible is a literal as well as a symbolic book. by the time you start muddling up and juxtaposing interpretations you would end up negating/downplaying the real message bro.


Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may LEARN NOT TO EXCEED WHAT IS WRITTEN, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.
1 cor 4:6 New American Standard Bible (©1995)

Boomark: You teaching on this is false and cannot stand.

Deuteronomy 8:2-3
King James Version (KJV)
2 And thou shalt remember all the
way which the LORD thy God led
thee these forty years in the
wilderness, to humble thee, and to
prove thee, to know what was in
thine heart, whether thou wouldest
keep his commandments, or no.
3 And he humbled thee, and
suffered thee to hunger, and fed
thee with manna, which thou
knewest not, neither did thy
fathers know; that he might make
thee know that man doth not live
by bread only, but by every word
that proceedeth out of the mouth
of the LORD doth man live.


Jesus quoted from this verse. The Israelites were hungry for food not the word of God. God made them hunger because they refuse to obey His commandments. Read Ex 16:28- 36.

What are these people hungry for, food or word of God? What did God give them? Food(manna) or His word? Just to show them that they should not live by bread(manna) alone but also by His commandment(utterances). Ex 16:28.

Start now to restructure your symbolic understanding of the scriptures because you are misleading people.

Fasting from the word of God means going away from God and his commandment. That means living a good moral life without God word. What made us saints is His word.

guy u just did the job. i subscribe to the above 100 percent. more oil to your elbow

obadiah777: YOU HAVE PUT IT IN THE WRONG PERSPECTIVE. THAT SCRIPTURE IS TALKING ABOUT ALL OF ISRAEL WHO DID NOT MAKE IT TO BE THE FIRST FRUITS. THEY ARE BLINDED FROM SCRIPTURES UNTIL THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES HAS COME INTO THE KINGDOM.
ROMANS 11 VS 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

so how does the scriptures relate to my posts that says Gods spirit cannot lead someone to death(abstainance from word of life)

Now is Jesus among all of Isreal who did not make it to be the firstfruits.

If these group of people were kept from knowing Gods word and according to you Jesus was kept from Gods word too. does this not make Jesus to be categorised alongside these people.

my dear Jesus is not among these people that are blinded(kept away from Gods word) and as such does not qualify to be kept away(abstain/fast) from Gods word.

rather Jesus is a type/representation of the firstfruits.

my guy did you see the part where quran says the person that was crucified look like Jesus. i guess you dont have anything to say about that. its ur quran bro. i brought it up to u for yu to reason with it. if u like u accept it if you like you dont accept it. wat is my own ni.

i have done my job. which is to show you reasoning sound reasoning. reason with ur quran bro. its up to u.

obadiah777: YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES ISAIAH 29 VS 10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. DANIEL 12 VS 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: JOHN 12 VS 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them MARK 4 VS 11-12 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

now lets put these scriptures you presented in the right perspective. would we

whose eyes are being blinded.
here you have your answer

but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables

and not the ones within that is the people that have chosen to be with God.

Now Jesus is a representation of the people that have accepted Gods invitation and are walking with him. Christ is the head of the called out ones.

so you see. Jesus does not fall into the class of people that are without and as such cannot be said to have been blinded, made to sleep or kept away from Gods word.


#ALSO take note that there was a wealth temptation in the third proposal the devil made to Jesus.

and i say it again. the world has been condemned to death as a result of Adams sin. God gives us life by presenting the Word of life to us. as many as receive, believe and continue in this word hath got life. Now the spirit of God cannot willnot lead anyone to abstain or fast from the word of life. this is tantamount to leading the person to death as the absence of life is death.

did you also realise that Jesus responded to the devils proposals with the word. that is to tell you how important the word is and should not be abstained from.

seems to me Jesus was more charged up with the word rather than abstained from it as u put it..

...buy the truth and sell it not

obadiah777: YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE BACKDROP TO THAT STORY FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND. ALL THE PREACHERS ( PHARISEES ETC ) OF THAT TIME WERE USING THEIR POSITION OF TEACHING TO BE IMPORTANT AND TO ACQUIRE FILTHY LUCRE. SO HE IS TRYING TO GET JESUS TO DO THE SAME BY TELLING HIM TO USE HIS MINISTRY TO BE RICH.

in Obadiahs voice "YOU DO ERR"
you just have to be consistent bro. if the bread spoken off by the devil means wealth according to you then the bread spoken off in Jesus' reponse would also mean wealth.

the verse would now read "Man shall not live by wealth alone" but as you very well know Man does not even live by wealth as he can live without it (ask the poor folks). so why wud Jesus say "alone" when talking about riches.

therefore your interpretation is wrong. the right interpretation would be the literal one [where Jesus fasted from food. he would use the word "alone" to qualify food because food is what keeps the body alive not sex, clothes, money etc( you can try carrying billions of naira with you while you got lost in the middle of nowhere on a plane crash and see if you could survive without food].

but if you still insist on your stand then am afraid to say that you are on you own. as many people have tried correcting you. this only shows that you do not have a teachable spirit and seem to allow yourself get puffed up by knowledge.

...let him that thinks he stands take heed lests he falls

¤~deSika says Salaam aleikun

ooman: My forefathers subscribed to hard work rather than worship and prayer. MY FOREFATHERS SAID WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT GODS AND FACE OURSELVES MY FOREFATHERS WERE ATHEISTS, THOUGH NOT ALL, APPARENTLY

yur statement gives u off bro..they should have left gods seems to me that they didnt. so they were theists..

u mean say after all the things i have talked about above u still doing this. ur case is something else seriously.

#as is my nature. i like to explain myself so that others dont misunderstand me. thats why i try to understand other people when discussing with them. this explains why i usually ask questions in my threads.

now for the last time i wud explain mysef to you again.

can someone who quotes a book be said to believe in that book? Yes
[example: Ved quoting from fraudulent book of barnabas and using to support his points]

can someone who quotes a book be said to believe in that book
No
[this case applies to someone who who quotes the book in a bid to find points he would use to draw conclusions. for example if i want to correct the mistake in an article authored by one Mr. Q. i wud quote the article and then point out where Mr. Q. got it wrong. can i then be said to believe in the article. No i was only trying to point out something to Mr. Q]

clearly you fall into the first category as you were not making any enquiry. i fall into the second category as i asked a question in my op and went on further to show a point in the quran.

my friend at this junction i would have done my best to put you in light as to what i mean in that statement of mine that you are hanging on to to avoid the matters raised in the thread.

oboye! see what i missed. just a few days away.

anyways i wud like to say thanks you all for your wonderful contributions. yes this includes the derailers, accusers and the off topics. thanks once again

but one thing i would love to confirm is this:
has any muslim being able to answer the op
as in show us where and how early muslims worshipped their God. how they engaged the 5 pillars of islam.

thanks once again. love you all

@ sweettease
thats what we call EVOLUTIONARY METAPHORICAL INTERPRETATIONS.

obadiah777: SALAAM ALEIKUN ? NOW I SEE WHY YOU DONT GET IT. YOU ARE A MOSLEM. SMDH

my guy pls respond to my post and leave the greeting alone. salaam alekun is an arabic greeting and not a muslim greeting.

Salaam once again

if the quran says the crucified looked like Jesus to his killers. and the killers and other people say the person that was crucified was Jesus to them. what right do you have to say that Jesus was not crucified.

¤^~deSika says Salaam aleikun

so now this is ur excuse for not responding to my points whereas as it is u cant respond to the matters as concerning this thread. its quite unfortunate. i will do you a favor and make it clear for you one last time

vedaxcool: So Mr. Liar you have two options,

1. Invalidate your earlier statement, confirming how "intelligent" you actually are!

my friend, there is no invalidation to be made as both of us are not in the same shoe. i asked a question on an islamic issue. i wud not go to my maths text book to state my points. i must need go to the quran where the confusion arises from. the confusion is about two opposing points 1. a crucified person resembling Jesus and 2. no crucifixion occuring. i was highlighting points in the quran with the hope that you explain them to me and not because i take them as facts. i was doing this to show a somewhat hidden and opposing point

i was only asking questions about two points rasied in it. if i took the quran as facts i wud be telling people that Jesus did not die just as you are doing. now ask yourself this question. how can someone who takes the quran as facts not believe that Jesus did not die and go on to ask a question about it.

vedaxcool: 2. Stick to your word and Accept the consequences, you cannot have it both ways!

yeah i still remain on my stand that for you to quote non christian books to further support the point where the quran lies means that you take it as facts. you were not asking questions as is my case. but the things is that the other points from the quran also prove you wrong.

in conclusion.
this thread seeks to find out if Jesus really was crucified. as both muslims and quran make two opposing statements about this crucifixion matter.

the muslim
says Jesus was not crucified and uses a non christian book to support this
he also says Jesus said Allah on that same cross

the quran
says Jesus was not crucified
it also says there was a crucifixion and the crucified looked like christ to his killers

after the muslims have their points. i showed them where the quran said otherwise. instead of them to refute what i have said. they all flee seeing they have nothing else to say as they cant refute their own quran or even defend it again at this point. [one wud have expected that they explain wat the quran means when it says the crucified person looked like Jesus to his killers and as it is this is the claim of christians that the crucified looked like Jesus to them and as such was Jesus to them]. the only one that stays back chooses to hang on the words of the asker in a bid to negate the askers credibilty.

after you have finished negating the askers credibilty please do him a favor and accept the fact that the quran says that the crucified person looked like Jesus to his killers and as such STOP CLAIMING THAT JESUS WAS NOT CRUCIFIED.

and if Jesus was not crucified it means the quran lied by saying again that Jesus was not crucified


#deSika ...still at your service

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