₦airaland Forum

brocab:
Am I going to receive an honest answer this time, or do you once again return my asking with more abuse from your dirty mouth you and your family of JW's .com.au

first, I hope you have dropped the attempt to smear my name, such things does not word, it reeks of desperation ok.

How many times have we answered your questions time and time again. And still it doesn't sink into your spirits.[/qoute]
ill keep pointing out the ones you brocab did not answer, this "we" thing you are always trying to bring up wunt work, I know who I'm asking what question, what led to the question and why I'm asking them.

[quote]Without having any understanding about the divine nature Jesus has with His Father, makes life a little difficult between both parties.

it you had answered my questions over 20 pages ago, if you had qouted and explained the scriptures posted to you, maybe I would I have understood.

The time I wake up and start reading your page and the time I finish reading your page, its bed time.

sorry bout that, but I felt it was neccesarily to use your posts to spread the truth, to make others see why you could not quote and explain certain scriptures.

Most people would allow the other to have a say when one addresses a question or two. But not you? You come across very abusive and cast the first stones against us, not given us time to seek after your demands of questioning.

sir, I've been asking the same, question for months!, begging you to quote and explain certain scriptures for over 20 pages now, do you want the whole year?

ARE YOU A POLICEMAN? Even if you are? Still your way of questioning isn't working.
One would think? It takes you all night to write them, then at least try and explain to us' what your means are when addressing your questions.
-Not expect us to answer the 101 questions every night at one time without you addressing your questioning.

the questions where very few in the beginning, as you kept on changing topic without answering any, it kept on growing , if you answer any of them, I'll remove it from the list.

{Matthew 7:9} Which of you, if your Son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

you are not my son sir!
issues, questions and request still pending :


1. WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?
bunch of liars!

2. Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!
..............................

And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)

......................................

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:
[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab
1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
17. 2 cor 1:3
18. Eph 1:3
19. 1 pet 1:3
20: 2Cor 8:6
21. 1 cor 15: 27,28

And a host of others
.............................................

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!
................................................


YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus!
King James Version

Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known Jesus from birth, and the picture of Jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!
but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise Jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .
Do you notice how Jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?
2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!
before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus.
john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing Jesus after his resurrecting, after being with Jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If Jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with Jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually Jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!
spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!
sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.
brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

brocab:
What don't you understand?
We have never denied Jesus has a God,

then this question should not be too hard for you to answer
1.DOES JESUS HAVE A GOD AT THIS MOMENT?
2. DOES JESUS HAVE A GOD HE IS SUBJECTED TO AT THIS MOMENT?
3. CAN THE ALMIGHTY GOD HAVE A GOD?
4 . CAN THE ALMIGHTY GOD BE SUBJECTED TO ANYONE?
[color=blue] readers should take note and see if he answers

We are simply trying to give you understanding Jesus and His Father and His Father's Spirit are One.

ONE WHAT!, and you answer should be surpported with the scriptures.
christians already know Jesus and the father are one, the same way jesus disciples will be one with both jesus and the father, but that does not make the disciples almighty God!
the father is greater than I am, Jesus said!

It's you who seem to have a problem understanding something that is so simple to understand. I suppose it must be hard for you to comprehend such knowledge without you accepting Christ fully into your heart, which stops you to become one with Him and God at the same time, teaching you all things concerning His word.
We have shared the word of God to you over and over and still it confuses you to understand any of them.[/color]
{John 1:1} is a good example to the divine nature of the 3 divine persons of the Holy trinity, the Father the word {The Son} and the Holy Spirit are of the same one undivided divine essence.

is the holy spirit mentioned in John 1:1?, wow! I kinda missed that, hope you are not spewing another lie!

They are of the same one undivided divine substance and nature. Although their are 3 divine persons in the Godhead, there is only one will, and one common energy in the Godhead. The Father the son and the Holy spirit have only one and the same divine will, Not 3.
Therefore their can never be conflict of wills within the Godhead. None of the 3 divine persons ever act separately from the other 2.
They are One God not 3 God's, Christ said I and My Father are One {John 10:30}
We can all see the differences we have 'when dealing in this subject with the JW's they believe their are two God's Jesus and the Father are two separate God's.
But the word say's, There is only one source in the Godhead, God the Father, He is the only unoriginated Origin in the Godhead, God the son is begotten by God the Father. God the Holy Spirit proceed by God the Father.

pls always support your theories with scriptural proofs pls.

Each of the 3 divine persons of the triune God dwells and exist in the other 2, without confusion or separation: Jesus said to Him, Have I been with you so long and yet you not known Me Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say; show us the Father? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you, I do not speak on My own authority , but the Father who dwells in Me, does the works {John 14:9-10}
God is a being of absolute divine Love, Love is the very mode of God's triune being as a unity. The unceasing mutual perfect infinite divine love characterizes the personal divine relations of the 3 divine persons of the Holy trinity. The human desire for love reflects His divine reality.
God is love" {1 John 4:8}
It must be difficult for you to try and work this out in your own head, if solite3 said it's the Father and I say it's Jesus, then it's divine. We have both correctly answered the question rightly. Now you answer {Revelation}

ha, so one person exists in the other two persons witout confusion or separation, likewise the other person's exists in the other two persons too.Haba, so who now is the person, is it the father , or the son, or the holy spirit, who now controls this three persons that is in one person that is now in the three persons! I bow for you o, no wonder it is difficult for me to work out.
brocab, that the father dwells in Jesus does not mean jesus is the father!
their relationship shows they are two seperate persons

I prefer this :
the father and jesus are distinguishable persons, each with a name.
when they are together, Stephen knew who was who and said so
when they where not together, the disciples knew who was who and distinguished them.
Jesus has said the father is his God and our God, I follow jesus example
jesus said the father is greater than he is , I believe Jesus
jesus does the will of the father, but he also has his own will.
there are record's of jesus talking to the father and the father talking to jesus, thus they are two seperate persons

therefore the question , which of these two persons is who was, who is and who is to come?
it has never been recorded that both of them are talking at the same time, so pls who is talking there? You can't both be correct cus jesus and the father are not the same person?
it seems you dnt even understand what the word person means!

brocab issues stiLl at hand:

issues at hand:
And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)
you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:
[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.
Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.
Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.
You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.
brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
And a host of others
Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!
YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus!
King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known Jesus from birth, and the picture of Jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!
but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise Jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .
Do you notice how Jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.
brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?
2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!
before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus.
john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing Jesus after his resurrecting, after being with Jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If Jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with Jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually Jesus.
I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!
spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!
sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.
brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

solite3:
were those supposed older manuscripts even accurate?

thats a question you should ask only on rev 1:11, which is what we are discussing about.
also add these questions to your research, is the Textus Receptus accurate?

Scholars use it because that's the best older manuscripts they can find.the textus remains the most invaluable to Christians and scholars prefer not to use it only because they feel it was late.

you yourself know that the above is a big lie, only those who want to find surpport for the testus Receptus use it.
Other critical texts came later than the Textus Receptus and scholars are using it now, by the way, are you thinking that the Textus Receptus is a late manuscript?

How do you even know alpha and omega was included in the textus? What evidence do you have? please don't give those older manuscripts that had already being proven to be corrupt as evidence except you want me to believe you by faith.

the evidence has been stated several times in this thread, you have asked similar questions before, and it was answered!, and pls dnt start with you did not see it, cus you responded to my answers!

Revelation 1:11
I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and - This whole clause is wanting in ABC, thirty-one others; some editions; the Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Slavonic, Vulgate, Arethas, Andreas, and Primasius. Griesbach has left it out of the text.
-Commentary on the Bible , by Adam Clarke, [1831], at sacred-texts.com
www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/clarke/rev001.htm


......... 11 Saying, [I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,] What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
(The bracketed, emboldened portion of the above KJV text was not in the original text of verse 11, as explained below...........

commentary
Virtually all modern translations do not include in Rev 1:11 the following words that are in the KJV version of that verse:
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,
This wording at the beginning of the KJV 's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any ancient texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in any modern translation or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition (New York: United Bible Societies, 1994, phone: 800-322-4253).

(The New King James Version [ NKJV ] does include this wording; but the NKJV is not a modern translation; it is only a modern-English rewording of the the original KJV , minus the Aprocrypha, since the Aprocrypha was in the original KJV .)..............

The errors in both Rev. 1:11 and Rev 22:13 are due to the inaccuracy of the so-called Textus Receptus , the Greek text upon which the KJV 's New Testament was based.
(According to Bruce Metzger (in The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, Second Edition , Oxford University Press, 1968), the Textus Receptus was hastily and haphazardly prepared and was based mostly upon unreliable 12th century manuscripts. It was the work of a Dutchman by the name of Desiderius Erasmus and was first published in 1516. Though what became known as the Textus Receptus was inferior in accuracy to the very first complete Greek New Testament, the so-called Complutensian New Testament that was published only two years earlier in 1514, Erasmus' text was marketed much more effectively and was used as the basis for all the principal Protestant translations in the languages of Europe until 1881, when the English Revised Version [RV ] was first published.
www.bibletexts.com/versecom/rev01v11.htm

meanwhile:
your questions are still pendin sir

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?


2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

[b]I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!
I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.
The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".
All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls can you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b]

@ brocab and for others to examine

BELOW IS THE CONCLUDING PART OF MY EXPLANATION, IT WAS POSTED ON MAY 22, 4:20 PM , YOU CAN FIND IT ON PAGE 61 OF THESE THREAD

JEHOVAH, JESUS AND THE ALMIGHTY GOD

WHO IS JEHOVAH ?
David tells us he is the God of isreal.
1 chr 17 :24: May your name endure and be exalted forever, so that people may say, ‘Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, is God to Israel,’ and may the house of your servant David be firmly established before you.
* Jehovah is the God of the isrealites

In Psalms David also said he is the maker of the earth.
Ps 124:8O : ur help is in the name of Jehovah, The Maker of heaven and earth.”

He also said:
Ps 97:9: For you, O Jehovah, are the Most High over all the earth; You are exalted far above all other gods.
* Jehovah is the most high, pls notice these when we look at the most high and jesus

Isaiah said:
Isa 45:18 : For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
* there are no two jehovahs, no two persons bearing the same name Jehovah, only one person bears that name!

Paul further said:
Ro 3:29: Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations.

Jehovah himself said he does not change in mal 3:6
and he said in Exodus 6:3( and this time I used the kjv)
King James Version
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
* the name of the ALMIGHTY GOD IS JEHOVAH

Michai said:
1Ki 22:19: Mi·caiʹah then said: “Therefore, hear the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne and all the army of the heavens standing by him, to his right and to his left.

examine this verse carefully
Ex 3:15Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

* for those who propose that Jesus is Jehovah ask yourself this questions
1. did Jesus ever said he is Jehovah?
2. did the disciples ever call jesus jehovah?
3. When the angel came to Mary, was the name Jehovah part of the names he said Jesus will bear?
4. Jehovah said, this is my name forever, this is how I'm to be remembered, have your not thus changed what God wanted by calling him jesus ?

ex 6:6-8
“Therefore, say to the Israelites: ‘I am Jehovah, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians and rescue you from their slavery, and I will reclaim you with an outstretched arm and with great judgments.7And I will take you in as my people, and I will be your God, and you will certainly know that I am Jehovah your God who is bringing you out from under the burdens of Egypt.8And I will bring you into the land that I swore with an oath to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; and I will give it to you as something to possess. I am Jehovah.’”

Ex 15:11Who among the gods is like you, O Jehovah? Who is like you, showing yourself mighty in holiness? The One to be feared with songs of praise, the One doing wonders.


The scriptures(below) indicated the Jehovah called himself the father of the isrealites and the isrealites called Jehovah their father.
jer 3:19, jer 31: 9, isa 63: 16, isa 64:8, Deut 32:6, 1 chr 29:10, mal 1: 6, mal 2:10.

There are thousands of scripture verses I could refer to but from the verses posted above, we have learned the following:

1. Jehovah is the almighty God, the name of the almighty God is Jehovah.
2. jehovah is the God of isreal
3. Jehovah is also the God of gentiles who accept him as their God.
4. Jehovah is the creature of the earth.
5. Jehovah is the most high God.
6. Jehovah is the father of the isrealites.
7. jehovah is the one who sits on the throne.
*pls note this facts about Jesus when comparing him to jesus

There are also Scriptural verses about Jehovah as the one sitted on the throne and residing in heaven, you can check it if you are interested.


Now that the scriptures had clarified some things about jehovah let us check what Jesus said about these things to know if Jesus is Jehovah or not.


1. DID JESUS EVER SAY HE IS ALMIGHTY GOD TO SIGNIFY THAT HE IS JEHOVAH?NO!
At no time did Jesus ever say that he is the almighty God, he had several times stated that he is the son of God, and his disciples repeated this truth.

[b]Kjv
Ps 45:7: Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

King James Version
Joh 10:36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Kjv
1 john 4:9,15-
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
15- Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
* note: god did not send himself , he sent his only begotten Son

King James Version
Joh 5:19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

King James Version
Joh 5:20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
* no one can show the almighty greater works

King James Version
Joh 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath HE GIVEN to the Son to have life in himself;

King James Version
Mr 5:7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

King James Version
Mt 16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

King James Version
Ac 13:33God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
*the almighty does not have a God that he calls " my God"[/b]

2 DID JESUS EVER STATE THAT HE IS THE GOD OF ISREAL OR OF GENTILES? NO!

[b]kjv
Joh 5:36: But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me .
*God sent Jesus, the father sent Jesus, the father is God and not Jesus

kjv
Ac 17:30,31 : And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness BY THAT MAN WHO HE HATH ORDAINED; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that HE HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD
* the person who raised and the person who was raised are not the same person, therefore the God mentioned in these verse and Jesus are not the same!

Ac 2:22: “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ was a man publicly shown to you by God through powerful works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.
*The person that did things and the person through whom things are done are not the same person[/b]


4. DID JESUS OR THE SCRIPTURES EVER CALL JESUS THE MOST HIGH, HIGHEST OR MOST HIGH GOD? NO!
Not only did the the scriptures not call jesus the most high god, it went further to tell us many times that jesus has a God, therefore he can't be the most high God !

[b]Joh 20:17.(quoted earlier)

2Co 1:3: Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort,

* who is the father of tender mercies?
Ex 34:6Jehovah was passing before him and declaring: “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth,
Ps 86:5For you, O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive; You abound in loyal love for all those who call on you.
Mic 7:18Who is a God like you, Pardoning error and passing over the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? He will not hold onto his anger forever, For he delights in loyal love.

RoM 15:6: so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Kjv
2Co 11:31: The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Kjv
Eph 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Kjv
Eph 1:17: That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Kjv
1Pe 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

kjv
Mr 5:7quoted earlier)

kjv
Lu 1:32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
*jesus is not the Lord God![/b]

JESUS AND THE MOST HIGH

Ps 110:1Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

compare that verse with the apostles statement:
[b]King James Version
Mt 22:44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
acts 2: 32-34
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
* the LORD is jehovah(name deliberately removed to cause confusion),the other Lord is jesus , a different person from jehovah, sitting at the right hand of Jehovah, by jehovahs command!

acts 7:55,56 kjv
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

King James Version
Heb 8:1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the MAJESTY in the heavens;

King James Version
Heb 1:3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, SAT DOWN ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE MAJESTY ON HIGH[/b]

*Jesus is not the most high
jesus is not the Majesty who he sat at his right hand.


5 DID JESUS CALL HIMSELF THE FATHER OF THE ISREALITES? NO!

[b]kjv
Joh 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

6 DID JESUS CALL HIMSELF THE ONLY TRUE GOD ? NO!
on the contrary he called the father the only true God, as Jesus is not the same person as the father, therefore Jesus is not the only true God.

kjv
Joh 17:1 to 3: These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

7.DID THE SCRIPTURES INDICATE THAT JESUS IS JEHOVAH? NO!

[b]Mic 5: 4
He will stand up and shepherd in the strength of Jehovah, In the superiority of the name of Jehovah his God. And they will dwell in security, For now his greatness will reach the ends of the earth.

8. WAS JESUS SENT BY GOD? yes, God did not send himself!
kjv
Joh 3:2,16,17, 32: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

9. IS JESUS THE ONE SITTING ON THE THRONE?NO!
kjv
Heb 8:1: Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Jehovah is the one who sits on the throne!

brocab and solite3 I've used the scriptures to show you that
1. Jesus is not the God of isreal, therefore Jesus is not Jehovah
2. Jesus is not the almighty God, therefore he is not Jehovah
3. Jesus has a God, therefore he is not the almighty God.
4. Jesus is the son of God , therefore he is not the father, he is not the father of the isrealites , therefore he is not Jehovah.
5. Jesus and the scriptures acknowledge the father to be superior to him, therefore Jesus is not the almighty God and so Jesus is not Jehovah.
6. prophecies that the name Jehovah was mentioned indicated that he is not sending himself as Messiah but sending someone else, showing that the messenger, Jesus is not jehovah
7. Jesus at no point ever said he is God Almighty.

I'll end it with this scripture:
For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

@ brocab, and for others to examine.
MY EXPLAINATIONS CONTINUED WITH THE WORDS BELOW, THIS WAS POSTED ON MAY 21, 3:48 PM AND CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 60 OF THESE THREAD


rev 1:4-6 ESV
John to the seven churches that are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace [/u]FROM HIM[/u] who is and who was and who is to come, AND FROM the seven spirits who are before his throne, 5 AND FROM Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood 6 and made us a kingdom, PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen

WHAT DOES THESE VERSES TEACH US
1. These verses teaches us that the greetings by John to the seven congregations came from three dinstinct and different sources, first one was from the one who is, who was and who is to come, second one is from the seven spirit's which solite3 claim to be the holy spirit, thiRd greeting was from Jesus Christ.

2. The first greeting was from HIM , who the verse decribes as who is who was and who is to come(solite3 said this is the father).

3. The second greeting are from the seven Spirits( solite3 said these is the holy spirit)

4. The third is from Jesus who John calls the FAITHFUL WITNESS, THE FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD.

5. John makes an important statement , he saY's that Jesus had made us a kingdom, PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER.

6. From 5 above we learn that Jesus did not only claim that the father is God, like some will like to believe, he claimed that the Father is HIS GOD? EVEN RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN!
(The scriptures is awash with facts to support these claims , I shall quote most as we go along)

7. from the greeting of John and from his statements regarding jesus. It is evident that :
a) jesus is not the God mentioned is verse 1
b)jesus has a God in heaven
c)jesus is not HIM who gave the first greeting , the one described as who is who was and who is to come(which solite3 refers to as the father). john specifically describes who the greetings where from!
d)jesus is not the almighty God as he had said, with John reiteratING that Jesus has A GOD!( note this is very much different from calling someone God, like some like to use as a defense to jesus and John's statements)

(color=blue] pls note all these points if when we are examining rev 1:7,8[/color])

do we have scriptures that surpport these explanations? yes

1. [b] rev 1:8 English Standard Version
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
NWT
Re 1:8“I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

2.rev 4:8 English Standard Version
And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”
NWT
As for the four living creatures, each one of them had six wings; they were full of eyes all around and underneath. And continuously, day and night, they say: “Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is coming.”
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Each one of these four beasts stood and had from its appendages and over it six surrounding wings, and from within they are full of eyes and are not silent day or night, saying, “Holy, holy, holy, LORD JEHOVAH God Almighty.”
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Saying, “We thank you, LORD JEHOVAH God Almighty, who is and has been, for you have taken your great power and you have reigned.”

3. Re 3:14“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

4 Joh 15:9Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love.

5. King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.[/b]

Now my question to brocab and solite3
1. does jesus have a god?
2. who is the God of jesus?
3. can the almighty God have a god superior to him?

*readers should notice if they answer these questions or respond to the scriptures quoted.

now in my next post ill move on to another part of the question, which is quoting and explaining heb 1: 9

..............................................
THIS NEXT POST IS A CONTINUATION OF THE PREVIOUS ONE , IT WAS POSTED ON MAY 21, 6:03PM AND CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 60 OF THESE THREAD.


[b]heb 1:9( English Standard Version)
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; [color=blue]THEREFORE GOD, YOU GOD, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your COMPANNIONS.”

WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THESE SCRIPTURE.
1. Jesus has a God who is superior to him, who is his God .
2. This God is now suppor ting jesus statements indicating he has a God , this God now states that he is the God of jesus
3. It is this God who anointed jesus and exalted him above his companions.
4. the reason for such anointing is because and not limited to the fact that Jesus loved righteousness and hated wickedness.

ARE THEIR SCRIPTURES TO SURPPORT THESE VIEWS ? YES

[b]Isa 61:1The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, Because Jehovah anointed me to declare good news to the meek. He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners,

Lu 3:21, 22Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up,
22and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: [color]“You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”[/color]

Lu 4:18“Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free,

now the question to solite3 and brocab is
1. who is the God of jesus that anointed jesus

* pls note if there is a response to the scriptures quoted, and the questions asked.

I'll now move to the last part of the question which asked " who was talking in rev 3:3,12

..........................................................

THIS POST WAS MADE ON MAY 21, 8:37 PM, IT CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 60 OF THIS THREAD

[b]rev 3:2,12 ESV
Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of MY GOD.
12. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of MY GOD , the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and MY OWN NEW NAME.

WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THESE VERSE
1. Jesus keeps repeating the fact that he has a God .
2 . He made this statement while he had gone back to heaven as a spirit creature
3. This means that even in heaven, Jesus still states that he has a God !
4. He calls his God "my God "
5. Jesus also has a new name

my question to solite3 and brocab
1. do you now agree that in heaven jesus still has a God ?
2. do you know the God Jesus called "my god"?

now ill add all this evidence together and conclude by examinING rev 1:7,8
.....................................

THIS POST WAS ON MAY 21, 10:42 PM , IT CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 61 OF THESE THREAD


COMPILATION:

From rev 1:1, we learnt that
1. The revelation comes from God and was given to Jesus
2. "God " in these verse and "Jesus" in these verse are not the same person
3. God here is different from Jesus
4. It was God that wants Jesus to show his servants the things that must shortly take place
5. Jesus now made the revelation from God known through his angel to his servant John
6. thereforE the revelation involved 4 persons , God, Jesus , the angel and John.

From rev 1:4-6 we learnt that
1. John was sending his greeting from (1) the one who is, and who was, and who is to come ( the identity of these one will be revealed later ) and (2) the seven spirits
2. The greetings are from two distinct sources , the one who is, who was, and who is to come, is not the same person as the seven spirits who are before His throne.

We also learnt that
1. These verses teaches us that the greetings by John to the seven congregations came from three dinstinct and different sources, first one was from the one who is, who was and who is to come, second one is from the seven spirit's which solite3 claim to be the holy spirit, thiRd greeting was from Jesus Christ.
2. The first greeting was from HIM , who the verse decribes as who is who was and who is to come(solite3 said this is the father).
3. The second greeting are from the seven Spirits( solite3 said these is the holy spirit)
4. The third is from Jesus who John calls the FAITHFUL WITNESS, THE FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD.
5. John makes an important statement , he saY's that Jesus had made us a kingdom, PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER.
6. From 5 above we learn that Jesus did not only claim that the father is God, like some will like to believe, he claimed that the Father is HIS GOD? EVEN RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN!
(The scriptures is awash with facts to support these claims , I shall quote most as we go along)
7. from the greeting of John and from his statements regarding Jesus. It is evident that :
a) Jesus is not the God mentioned is verse 1
b)Jesus has a God in heaven
c)Jesus is not HIM who gave the first greeting , the one described as who is who was and who is to come(which solite3 refers to as the father). john specifically describes who the greetings where from!
d)Jesus is not the almighty God as he had said, with John reiteratING that Jesus has A GOD!( note this is very much different from calling someone God, like some like to use as a defense to Jesus and John's statements)

From heb 1:9
1. Jesus has a God who is superior to him, who is his God .
2. This God is now suppor ting Jesus statements indicating he has a God , this God now states that he is the God of Jesus
3. It is this God who anointed Jesus and exalted him above his companions.
4. the reason for such anointing is because and not limited to the fact that Jesus loved righteousness and hated wickedness.

from rev 3:2,12 we learnt that 1. Jesus keeps repeating the fact that he has a God .
2 . He made this statement while he had gone back to heaven as a spirit creature
3. This means that even in heaven, Jesus still states that he has a God !
4. He calls his God "my God "
5. Jesus also has a new name

NOW TO REV 1:7
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
the identity of the one who is coming is easily identified as jesus , he was the one who was pierced when he was on earth, and who went to heaven in the clouds.

This coming refers to Jesus’ appearing in the future to reward the just and punish the wicked

People will not see him with their literal eyes. Since his ascension to heaven, Jesus is a spirit person “who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”— .
1 ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen

Jesus does not need to take on a human form to be “seen” by the inhabitants of the earth any more than Jehovah needed to do so when he brought the Ten Plagues on the Egyptians in the days of Moses. The people of that time had no doubt that Jehovah was causing the plagues, and they were forced to recognize his power. In a similar way, when Christ takes action as God’s Executioner, the wicked will be forced to “see,” or perceive, that Jesus is being used by God to judge them. They will know this because mankind will have been warned in advance. Yes, “every eye will see [Jesus], and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him

rev 1:8
ESV
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty.
NWT
.8“I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

Considering all the things learnt from rev1:1,4-6 , heb 1:9, and rev 3:2,12, it is very clear that these verse is not reffering to jesus, why?
because jesus cannot be the Almighty God, the almighty God does not have a God who is superior to him!
also from those points, we know that Jesus is not the who is ,who was and who is to come as John's greetings has seperated jesus from that person.
Therefore the verse is right to say that jehovah is the person that verse is referring to.

ALPHA AND OMEGA
While many people apply this title both to God and to Christ, a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Jehovah God.
The first verse of Revelation which i had explained shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus.


Thus at rev 1:8 it is Jehovah who is talking cus it's only jehovah that is the almighty God. Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God.

The title occurs again at rev 21:6
English Standard Version
And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.
The following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” ReV 21:7

Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.
matt 25:40 English Standard Version
And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

heb 2:10-12 (ESV)
10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.
11 For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers,
12 saying, “I will tell of your name to my brothers;
in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.”

2Co 6:18“‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”

The final occurrence of the title is at rev 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verse 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself.
“The Alpha and the Omega” of verse 12-15 , therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God.

The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment.

Isa 26:21For look! Jehovah is coming from his place To call the inhabitants of the land to account for their error, And the land will expose her bloodshed And will no longer cover over her slain.”

mal 3: 1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”
[b] look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.
2. “But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen.
3. And he will sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and will cleanse the sons of Leʹvi; and he will clarify them like gold and like silver, and they will certainly become to Jehovah people presenting a gift offering in righteousness.
4. And the gift offering of Judah and of Jerusalem will actually be pleasing to Jehovah, as in the days of long ago and as in the years of antiquity.
5. “I will come near to you for judgment, and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who take false oaths, against those who defraud the hired worker, the widow, and the fatherless child, and against those who refuse to help the foreigner. These have not feared me,” says Jehovah of armies.
6. “For I am Jehovah; I do not change. And you are sons of Jacob; you have not yet come to your finish[/b]

The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—
This is what Jehovah says,
The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies:
‘I am the first and I am the last.
There is no God but me

my next post will be about jehovah and the almighty God .
.

@ brocab, and for others to see and examine.

I started my explanations of rev 1:7,8 with the words below.
(pls note that the green coloured words are for explanations and to show that I indeed did put brocads name their so that he could not claim that he did not see it.)

THE WORDS BELOW WHERE POSTED ON MAY 21, 12:32 PM AND CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 59 OF THESE THREAD)

"NOW LETS LOOK AT REV 1:7,8

brocab and solite3, I told you that to understand rev 1:7,8 better, one must first quote and understand what rev 1: 1,4-6 says, thus I requested for the past 20 pages that you quote and explain those verses, I also added heb 1:9 And rev 3:2,12 to it.
sincerely, I thought I would eventually be given an explanation in just I straight post, no one comes to an exam hall, answer part of the questions and expect to be allowed to come part the next day to answer other parts I thought. but that is exactly what brocab and solite3 tried to do.

WHenever the question was repeated to them, they will only answer snippets of it. They sometimes quote the verses and refuse to explain them or tried to give an explanation without quoting those verses. They scattered their answers into many posts so that it will seem that they had answered all , which they tried to claim anyway.

now I will give a detailed explanation of these verses , surpport it with other verses of the scriptures . After these ill ask brocab and solite3 a series of questions which readers will observe and notice to see if they will answer it or not.
I'll not respond to quotes until I finish my explanations
my next post will start with rev 1:1
.............................................................

THIS NEXT POST, WHICH IS A CONTINUATION OF THE PREVIOUS POST WAS POSTED ON MAY 21, 1:18 PM, IT CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 59 IN THIS THREAD

" rev 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ,WHICH GOD GAVE HIM to show to his servants a the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant b John,

WHAT DOES THESE VERSE TELL US(pls brocab and solite3, you can disprove the following facts if you want to , but pls notice they are numbered, therefore if you want to challenge any of them, just signify first the number you have issues with, if this is not done, them it's shows that you aim is just to disrupt the facts given and not to counter, correct or disprove it)

it tells us that:
1. The revelation comes from God and was given to Jesus
2. "God " in these verse and "Jesus" in these verse are not the same person
3. God here is different from Jesus
4. It was God that wants jesus to show his servants the things that must shortly take place
5. Jesus now made the revelation from God known through his angel to his servant John
6. thereforE the revelation involved 4 persons , God, Jesus , the angel and John.

do we have other scriptures to surpport rev 1:1 and the explanation giving about it?
daniel w:28 English Standard Version
but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream and the visions of your head as you lay in bed are these:

NOW WHO IS THAT GOD ?
King James Version
Am 3:7Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets

Now we all know that the kjv removed the name of God from that verse , so in other to know the name if the God that reveals his secrets to his servants , I'll have to quote from another transLation that did not remove gods name from that verse

American Standard Version
Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets.

New World Translation
For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.

NOW THESE QUESTIONS GOES TO YOU BROCAB AND SOLITE3
1. do you agree with all or some of the numbered points on rev 1:1?
2. do you agree that the name of the God who reveal secrets is Jehovah ?
3. do you agree that the God in rev 1:1, who gave the Revelation to jesus is Jehovah?

READERS SHOULD NOTE , IF THEY RESPOND TO THESE SCRIPTURES AND TO THE QUESTIONS ASKED WHEN THEY QUOTE THESE POST.
READERS SHOULD ALSO NOTE IFATHER THEY ATTEMPT TO CUT OF PART OF THESE POST WHEN THEY RESPOND.
now ill move to rev 1:4 "

......................................................................


THE NEXT POST, WHICH IS A CONTINUATION OF THE PREVIOUS POST WAS POSTED ON MAY 21, 2:31 PM, IT CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 59 IN THIS THREAD

[b] rev 1:4(ESV) John to the seven churches that are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne

actually, I'm supposed to quote from verse 4-6, I'll do that next, but I specifically quoted verse 4, just to bring out some interesting things said by brocaband solite3 on these verse.

WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THESE VERSE?( brocab and solite3 can respond if what I learned are wrong .
1. John was sending his greeting from (1) the one who is, and who was, and who is to come ( the identity of these one will be revealed later ) and (2) the seven spirits
2. The greetings are from two distinct sources , the one who is, who was, and who is to come, is not the same person as the seven spirits who are before His throne.

NOW LETS SEE SOME OF BROCABS AND SOLITE3 POSTS CONNECT ING THESE VERSE
*readers can cross check if I quoted them correctly or wrongly

take note of part of what brocab said on April 22, 11:54pm(this can be found on page 40 of these thread

It is Jesus who was, who is, and who is coming, it is Jesus who has the name the Alpha and the Omega. But it shows the scholars had taken Jesus's name out of text and replaced it with Jehovah God.

part of what brocab said oh april 30, 3:41am( this can be found on page 40 of these thread)

{4} John" to be the seven assemblies {Churches} that are in Asia; Grace to you and Peace, from Him {Jesus} who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne;

part of what brocab said on may 8 , 10:26pm(this can be found on page 41)

YOU DENY THE WORD OF GOD BY YOUR OWN ACTIONS, DENYING "WHO IS, "WHO WAS, AND "WHO IS TO COME, DENYING CHRIST IS CHRIST WAS AND CHRIST IS TO COME

Now see what solite3 said on may 6 9:55.(This can be found on page 45)

churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which was, and which is to come(referring to The father);and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne( referring to the Holy Spirit)
vs5 And from Jesus Christ,who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the faithful witness,and the first begotten of the of the dead,.....

[color=green]brocab and solite3, who should we now believe between the two of you[/color]
brocab: the one who is, who was and who is to come is jesus
solite3: the one who is, who was and who is to come refers to the father.

This brings about the question(PLS EVERYONE SHOULD OBSERVE IF [color= green]BROCAB AND SOLITE3 WILL ANSWER THESE[/color])
1. is jesus the same person as the father?
2. If not , how can both now be the one who is, who was and who is coming?

while we wait for these answers, I'll move on to quote and explain my views on rev 1:4-6

READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT SO FAR , IVE MENTIONED BROCAB MORE THAN TEN TIMES! IN THESE THREE POSTS, YET HE COULD NOT RECALL!
WILL CONTINUE WITH IT'S OTHERS PARTS SHORTLY.........

Ubenedictus:
nowhere does tthe bible say mary had other children

dnt jump the gun sir, neither did I say so . But the scriptures told us jesus had brothers, these brothers of jesus where mostimes it's mentioned, with Mary!, these are facts, abi no be so

this is a classic protestant rant that doesnt address the topic, i will sssteer clear of themm hroughout d discussion

yes you are right , it does not address the topic, but it surely helps one to understand why you hold on to the veneration of Mary and put her in a position that does not have any divine organizational surpport. you gave her a crown God does not like or approve of, and you had to alter God's organizational arrangement to achieve this!

that is ceremonial uncleaniness not sin..
Moses said anyone that touch blood is unclean, a woman on menses wwas unclean to moses, a woman giving birth was also ceremonially unclean, do you consider such d case today? Do u think the birth o christ is an unclean even?

did I say it was sin? no
but did Mary remain unclean for 40 days after jesus birth ? yes

you asked if we consider such the case today, the answer is no, but Mary is not from today, and she did not give birth to jesus today, she gave birth to jesus when the law of Moses was still active!

I also Do not think the birth of christ was an unclean event, but according to the law, Mary was unclean when she gave birth to jesus, was she not? and she remaimed unclean for 40 days, was she not?

brocab:
I have asked you nicely and to repeat your so called answers to me, because I don't recall you even writing such a page back to me, who it is in {Revelation 1:8} I am the Alpha and the Omega say's the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is the come the Almighty?
Who is this scripture talking about?

for the benefit of others reading this thread, I'll show brocab again that I indeed explain
rev 1:1,4-8, rev 3: 11 and heb 1:9, and that I added his name so that he would not claim He did not see it(this I will do in subsequent posts)
For months I've asked him to quote and explain some of those scriptures, he vehemently refused to do so!

PLS NOTICE AGAIN IF HE WILL RESPOND TO THE SCRIPTURES AND QUESTIONS FORWARDED TO HIM IN THOSE POSTS

Every eye will see Him coming in the clouds? Tell us your version who this is?

always add scriptures sir, first tell us where you got that from.

If you did write it before then it will be easy for you to repeat your answers, because at this present moment you are making a lair out of yourself on this page.

we will soon know who is lying!

Who is, who was, and who is to come. Show us who is coming-tell us who is the Alpha and the Omega? Tell us who is the beginning and the end, the first and the last?
Fill us in, with your answers-so I and all who chose to listen will see this page.
Show us who said I am the living one, I was dead, and look I am alive forevermore.

like I told you the last time, pls show scripture where you got the above from, and I'll quote it and explain it to you!

MEANWHILE, HE SAID :

But of course who aren't convinced, you believe the Alpha is somebody else. So you have even gone against your own organization, who believe other then what 'you believe.

I asked him :
"you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?"

HE HAS DECIDED TO RAMBLE RATHER THAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

HE HAS DECIDED NOT TO RESPOND TO THIS TOO:

"BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .
is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSON AS THE FATHER?"

brocab:
Solite3, dolphinheart always twist the words around, its only because he is loosing the battle against Christ.
Listen Dolphinheart sits at home everyday, kicking himself over the loneliness he lives, His twists the words we speak only because his spare time is over the top 'he watchers porn all through the night. This is why none what he writes makes any sense.

you have now added defamation of character to your traits, continu!

but meanwhile , these are the issues at hand:

brocab:
Like always nothing you say makes any sense.
It really doesn't matter, the point is you had written it' for the public to see, calling yourself a lair ,you trying to deny it.

WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?

bunch of liars!

Johnw74 had brought it back to your attention, this proves you don't even believe the truth in Christ.
None of you JW's do.

Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!

We on the other hand have given the JW's scriptures from the bible, and all you have done is rebuked them all, you are denying these scriptures even exist.
Without you knowing you are really making a mockery of your organization, and what it means to become a Jehovah witness.
Myself if I was searching for the truth, and I saw the rubbish you JW's write on this page, it would turn me away from that truth.
And what is funny you are actually denying the word of God to those who are even reading this page.

1. You gave scriptures that do not say what you are trying to tell us they mean, when you gave those scriptures , I told you what they mean, using other scriptures to explain them, I did not run away from those scriptures and I did not rebuke them.

2. When I explain these scriptures to you, once you see the truth of it, all you do is try and change the topic or refuse to reply, most times I had to repeat my post, but you refuse to respond, I'll continue to post those scriptures, questions and request you refuse to respond to

3. I've shown you scriptures telling you about who Jesus is and his relationship to his father, yet you could not respond



issues at hand:
[b]And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:

[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work. 

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!. 
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth? 
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit? 
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am" 
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit. 
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9 
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3 
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11 
12. john 14:6 
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7 
16. ps 28:18

And a host of others

Brocab , examine these scripture 
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!


YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:

King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS!

King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known jesus from birth, and the picture of jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!

but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .

Do you notice how jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?

2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!

before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS.

john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing jesus after his resurrecting, after being with jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!

spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!


sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.

brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

solite3:
i don't understand your rant, I never told you those manuscripts were wrong

did I say you said so?

I only emphasized that if those manuscripts were not the original and also many of those manuscripts do not even contain some chapters in revelations along with missing verses and considering the few number of manuscripts available combined with the history surrounding the canonisation of the book of revelation in general any sane person would not raise accusation as you are doing.It's like saying everybody in Nigeria are black only because Mr A, B, C are black. Scholars are only speaking base on the so called best available manuscripts we have today.

1.manuscripts where not original: does it proof that the words "Alpha and omega" should be in rev 1:11? no
is the Textus Receptus sourced from the original?no

2. manuscripts that do not contain some chapters: do you look for rev 1:11 in manuscripts that do not contain it? No, you look for it in manuscripts that contain it!
are there manuscripts that contain rev 1: 11? yes
are there issues with that verse in manuscripts that contain rev 1:11? no!

3. availability of manuscripts: this is very funny, does the fact that there are few manuscripts available mean they are not accurate? no
in the older manuscripts, do the ones available have issues as regards revelation 1:11? no
do they have the words "Alpha and omega"? no .

another funny thing about these is that you use non availability of manuscripts as a reason for not agreeing with the older manuscripts, but lesser manuscripts where available when the Textus Receptus you accepted where compiled!

4. history of cannonization: you claimed there where issues with cannonization but you refused to tell us what the issues where, I do not think the issues affected rev 1:11 or does it?

again you have only tried to discredit the older manuscripts ,but you have failed to tell us where the testus Receptus got its source of rev 1:11 from?


your questions are still pending:

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?


2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

[b]I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!
I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.
The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".
All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b]

READERS SHOULD HAVE BY NOW NOTICED THE NEW LIE OF HIS AND CHECK TO SEE THAT HE DID NOT PROVID PROOF NOR DID HE ANSWER THE QUESTION

HE SAID :

But of course who aren't convinced, you believe the Alpha is somebody else. So you have even gone against your own organization, who believe other then what 'you believe.

I asked him :
"you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?"

HE HAS DECIDED TO RAMBLE RATHER THAN ANSWER
THE QUESTION.

brocab:
I didn't catch the first page, where you said you had explained who it is, who was, and who is coming?
So can you put it in writing once again and repeat yourself once more, who it is? Who do you believe who is coming.

WHere did I post this first page that you could not catch?, brocab, you are desperately trying to divert the questions I raised again, with the hope of not answering it

here it is again:
BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .

is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSONS AS THE FATHER?

Please explain Revelation since you are the one mouthing off you know the answers?

I've explained rev 1:7,8 , rev 1:1,4-6, heb 1:9 and rev 3:2,12, I mentioned you several times in each post, so dnt act as if you did not see it!

Who is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end, I Am the living one, I was dead, and behold I Am alive forevermore?
If you can prove God isn't talking about Jesus, then I suppose your answers may go to the top of the chart of no-man's land. This will be interesting...

provide scripture in which you quoted this from!, I'll quote it and explain it to you .

Ubenedictus:
'it would be expected' that is an assumption.

an expectation that was supported with facts that it really happened, Mary could not have had other children without having sex with her husband , or could she?

I wonder why you guys are Tryin all this illogical assumptions just to elevate Mary above who she is, the scriptures is awash with the role women played in Gods organization, and I've not seen a divinely approved authority driven position given to women. even before Jesus was born, all divine revelations as to jesus welfare was passed through Joseph, like a good isrealites wife, she obeyed.

even Mary that you are painting to be squicky clean remaimed unclean for 40 days after birth. has God ever dwelled in places he considered unclean?

solite3:
I laugh at your show of ignorance. When I asked you,if those older manuscripts were the original ones, you said no. I rest my case.

you might rest your case if you have nothing to say. But ill like you to point and quote where I said "no" to that question.

let's examine his defence using the word " original ones"
* by the sentence " original ones," I believe he is referring to the scriptures as written Down by the author, ie, the physical book/scroll/manuscript of revelation as written down by John himself!

do we have such book/schrolls / manuscripts today? NO!
did the Textus Receptus use it? NO!
did the Textus Receptus claim to get rev 1:11 from the original ones? NO ?

so pls solite3, can you tell us how not having or the older manuscripts not being the original ones make adding the words " Alpha and omega" to that verse by the testus Receptus the right thing to do .?

If you discredit the older manuscripts because they are not the original ones, then the Textus Receptus should not be opened at all, talk less of considering it.

All your questions had been answered.

NO SIR , THEY HAVE NOT!
Here they are again
:

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?


2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

Even your own mouth said Jesus had same nature with God which invariably makes him God, but Jesus became a man and till date he is still a man.acts 2:22-36

there are, no invariables in my statements, if you are still not sure what I meant, I'll post those posts of mine again for you to see, and everyone will see if you will respond or still try to change the issues again, up till now you have not apologised for lying against me that I said Jesus and God gave one nature.


solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

[b]I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!
I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.
The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".
All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b]

brocab:
Why don't you read the bible yourself, and convince yourself who is the Alpha and the Omega? Everyone in their right mind knows who is, who was, and who is coming.

BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .

is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSONS AS THE FATHER?

You are making a mockery of your organization, making them look like fools-just read your New World Translation bible, it's written who's coming back, the JW's have written who Jesus and Jehovah is, they also believe only One is the Alpha and the Omega.

be truthful sir! and stop Tryin to use words to confuse people, " who is coming" is a different sentence from "who is coming back", stop trying to merge them to create a false idea!

its good to note that you have contributed nothing to the issue of the Textus Receptus and revelation 1:11
you are trying to bring up the issue of rev 1:7,8 again, but then I posted it's understanding to you, you could not respond, dnt worry, I'll repost it soon.

But of course who aren't convinced, you believe the Alpha is somebody else. So you have even gone against your own organization, who believe other then what 'you believe. Just read what your bible scholars had written, and remember the word say's no-one has seen God at any time, because God is Spirit, so who's coming back in the clouds that every eye will see?

you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?

[color=red] READERS SHOULD PLS NOTICE THIS NEW LIE OF HIS AND CHECK IF HE WILL PRO DID PROOF OR ANSWER THE QUESTION

And why do you refuse to tell us your church and who do you associate with? Calling yourself a JW doesn't tell us anything. You could be a monk, claiming to be a JW who hasn't any knowledge, about the word of God? So what's the name of your church, so I could write in your black listed book personally so you won't have to visit me at any time.

READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT AFTER MONTHS OF ASKING HIM, HE REFUSES TO TELL US THE NAME OF HIS CHURCH OR THE ORGANIZATION HE ASSOCIATES WITH.
HE COULD NOT EVEN PROVIDE IT'S WEBSITE.

brocab:
Like always nothing you say makes any sense.
It really doesn't matter, the point is you had written it' for the public to see, calling yourself a lair ,you trying to deny it.

WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?

bunch of liars!

Johnw74 had brought it back to your attention, this proves you don't even believe the truth in Christ.
None of you JW's do.

Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!

We on the other hand have given the JW's scriptures from the bible, and all you have done is rebuked them all, you are denying these scriptures even exist.
Without you knowing you are really making a mockery of your organization, and what it means to become a Jehovah witness.
Myself if I was searching for the truth, and I saw the rubbish you JW's write on this page, it would turn me away from that truth.
And what is funny you are actually denying the word of God to those who are even reading this page.

1. You gave scriptures that do not say what you are trying to tell us they mean, when you gave those scriptures , I told you what they mean, using other scriptures to explain them, I did not run away from those scriptures and I did not rebuke them.

2. When I explain these scriptures to you, once you see the truth of it, all you do is try and change the topic or refuse to reply, most times I had to repeat my post, but you refuse to respond, I'll continue to post those scriptures, questions and request you refuse to respond to

3. I've shown you scriptures telling you about who Jesus is and his relationship to his father, yet you could not respond



issues at hand:
[b]And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:

[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work. 

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!. 
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth? 
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit? 
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am" 
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit. 
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9 
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3 
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11 
12. john 14:6 
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7 
16. ps 28:18

And a host of others

Brocab , examine these scripture 
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!


YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:

King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS!

King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known jesus from birth, and the picture of jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!

but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .

Do you notice how jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?

2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!

before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS.

john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing jesus after his resurrecting, after being with jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!

spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!


sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.

brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

johnw74:
concerning John 1:1, God and the Word, Jesus and God:


Lie Lie dolphinheart

EVERY ONE, PLS NOTICE THAT HE COULD STILL NOT POST OR QUOTE MY FULL POST

ON MAY 26 , 1:37 am( page 64 of these thread) John74 stated categorically that I said this :

"dolphinheart said that God and the Word is "a two headed god""

ON MAY 26, 1: 53 am on these thread (page 64) brocab asked johnw74

brocab:
Did dolphinheart say that, God and the word is a two headed god".

CAN YOU NOTICE THAT UP TILL THIS MOMENT, JOHNW74 HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO PROVE WHERE I SAID " GOD AND THE WORD IS A TWO HEADED GOD?

He had been trying desperately since trying to explain my own words so that it could sync with his posts, but to do so, he had to deliberately omit my own posts which had rubished and thrown his posts to the gutters, which has explained to him that his beliefs are false and which he is unable to respond to . NOTICE AGAIN , BOTH JOHNW74 AND BROCAB HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO RESPOND TO THE QUESTIONS ASKED , NOR BEEN ABLE TO QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THEIR UNDERSTANDINGS OF THOSE SCRIPTURES I QUOTED TO THEM FROM THE FIRST TWO POSTS OF MINE IN THAT THREAD.
HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES, YET YOU FAIL TO QUOTE AND EXAMINE SCRIPTURES THAT IS TALK ING ABOUT THE PERSONS YOU BELIEVE IN!



AGAIN , FOR STATERS TO THOSE READ ING THIS POST, BELOW IS MY FIRST POST ON THAT THREAD, UP TILL THIS MOMENT ON THAT THREAD. HE COULD NOT QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES IN THAT FIRST POST, NOR COULD HE PROOF THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS WRONG.

MY POST:
[b]Is the son the same person as the father ? no

is the son equal to the father? no, "the father is greater than i" the son says

did the son ever claim to be God almighty, God of isreal, the most high God? ? no, he only claimed to be the Son of God!

does the son sit on the same throne and have same authority as the father? no he sits at the right hand of God .

was the son given commands? yes, the almighty God cannot be given commands

does the son have a god (someone he worships ) ? yes, " I ascend to my Father... and to my God " he says.

does the son do things on his own? no , he does what the father tells him to do.

does the son show subjection to the father? absolutely yes

does the son have a beginning ? yes
does the father have? no

does the Scriptures seperate the person of God from the person of Jesus ? yes, all the time

has jesus described God? yes , he called him the father, " the only true god"

has God described jesus? yes , he called him " my son, in whom I'm well pleased"

is jesus subjected to God? yes

can you be with someone and be that same person? no

it has been established that God and Jesus are two different persons, there if you make jesus to be that same God, then your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!.
you also thus claim that Jesus and God are equal, something the scriptures never mentioned nor surpport.

for those who seek life, listen to this words

[b]Joh 3:16“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Joh 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

Joh 20:31But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

Eph 1:3Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,

1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Eph 4:6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all[/b]

These are the scriptures in which those who believe in Jesus and the father being the same God would not want to discuss with you , they prefer that the scriptures contradict itself so as to be able to hold on to their false beliefs.

The scriptures explains itself , after reading about the relationship between God and Jesus, it is left for us to now decide if the word is the same God it was with, or if he was a god who was with a much superior God, the almighty.

heb 1:9You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”[/b]

After his refusal to explain those scriptures I told him:
@ johnw74 , the above are absolute truths, that's why you can't refute any of them. you want to post about your doctrines, those scriptures I posted show's your doctrines are false!. that's y you can never ever explain those scriptures.

DID YOU NOTICE WHERE I TOLD HIM HIS DOCTRINES ARE FALSE! THE DOCTRINES ABOUT WHO GOD IS ?
I DID NOT STOP THEIR , I SHOW ED HIM MORE SCRIPTURES HE COULD NOT EXPLAIN!

the above will continue to stand as the truth, and surporters of false doctrine will continue to run away from it!

Re 1:1A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,

Re 1:5and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood—
yes
Re 1:6and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus has told us countless of times who my God is, he prayed to that God, thought me how to pray to that God, told us about his relationship with that God who exalted him above his companions.
I will not worship a man made God, a two or three headed God, for Jesus has told me , the father is the only true god!

Joh 17:1Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you,
Joh 17:2just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him.
Joh 17:3This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

one should read John chapter 17, it tells you more about the relationship between jesus and God.
[/b]

oluminnic:
Sorry, I dint get to see your response on time
1. Jehovah is a Person
2. Jesus is a person
3. The father is a Person
4. Yes. John: 1. 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God. 14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - Bible Offline

The Word (Jesus) was same with God (Jehovah), i.e Jesus was in Jehovah, but when the Word was made flesh, he became a separate person from the father
5. Relationship- father gave birth to son.
What makes you the son of man is the spirit of man in you
The term 'son of God' in the bible is used for those whose geneology is not traceable to man. One is Jesus because of virgin birth, another one is Adam (Luke 3:38), another group is that of we that are bornagain whose spirits have been recreated in Christ Jesus and because God dwells in us (1John3:2)
But the bible refers to him as the only begotten because he carries God (who is Spirit, so he carries the Spirit of God) and that makes him the Son of God

6. They are both same.
'Father,son and HS' is just more specific for God than Jehovah. This is just as Jehovah is more specific and a further revelation on 'Elohim'

ok
1. Jehovah is a person
2. Jesus is a person
3. The father is a Person

4,. I asked you sir 3. if the person jehovah , the same as the person Jesus or they are two different persons?
you answered yes, yes to what, that they are the same person or that they are two different persons.?

in your explanation, you first quoted john 1:1 and John 1:14 , I read them, but they go contrary to your explanation.
you said " The Word (Jesus) was same with God (Jehovah), i.e Jesus was in Jehovah,".
well sir, the verse did not say "same with God," it said "was with God". It also did not say or imply that Jesus was in Jehovah( if we replace the words "word" and "God with "jesus" and " jehovah " but implies that Jesus was jehovah( if we go by the scripture you quoted)
sir , from your explanation, are you saying that Jesus was not a person until he was born on earth?

hope you can adress this issues.

5. you said the father gave birth to jesus. are you saying the son was created?
you made this statement: "But the bible refers to him as the only begotten because he carries God (who is Spirit, so he carries the Spirit of God) and that makes him the Son of God" . pls what about adam, is his spirit not the spirit of God before he sinned? can we call adam only begotten son too before he sinned?

6. The father and Jehovah are the same person, good.
we will continue when you respond sir

solite3:
go back and read my post, I was not neccesarily condemning older manuscripts but only affirm that it cannot be used to discredit the rendering of rev1:11kjv only because they don't have alpha and omega in them.scholars based their assumptions on current available manuscripts, I bet you if they find another older manuscripts that agrees with textus they will change their view .

I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!

I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.

The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.

brocab says it's jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!

to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".

All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.

lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?

johnw74:
ummm, the subject is did dolphinheart call God and the Word a two headed god,

I showed that he did

I said he would twist and lie




Dolphinheart on God and the Word being God:





Lie Lie dolphinheart

it has been proving to you that you keep adjusting your allegations.
you could not post the post and tell us where I said so .
It is also noted by everyone that you could not respond to scriptures posted to you on that thread !

brocab:
There is no excuse you said it. Maybe you should watch what you say on this page. Someone had returned to you, what you do to others.
Mr self righteousness dolphinheart himself.

well, you had been lying before Johnny joined you. You cannot come out to say this is what I said, even when johnw74 provided you with supposed evidence. johnw74, on the other hand keep changing the words he claimed I said.

Both of you know that by posting the full text of what I said, readers will see your childish games. bet you are really pained that he could not quote my own words, but what should be paining you more is your inability, blindness and deliberate refusal to quote and explain the questions and scriptures posted in that post you responded to.

YOU SO MUCH WISH YOU COULD SHUT SOME ONE UP CUS YOU CANT RESPOND TO THE SCRIPTURES HE KEEPS POST ING TO YOU!

[quote author=solite3 post=46031059][/quote]1. solite3 did you read the request well well, read it again and do the necessary corrections

2. pls tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with !

solite3:
dolphinsheart this matter is still been debated by scholars I am surprised the way swallow everything that seems to go against Trinity teaching even if they were just alligations. For your information about 95% of all Greek manuscripts agree with the KJV like I told you earlier, I told the book of revelations is a subject of debate by scholars. That Alpha and Omega was added to revelation 1:11kjv is still debatable those who said that it was added are only saying that because it was not found in some of the oldest manuscripts today. but if you know the history of the book revelation.you won't bank on those older manuscripts to draw conclusions. For now those are mere alligations

pls share your info with us. pls tell us how the Textus Receptus came to have the words " Alpha and omega in verse 11 of Revelation chapter 1.

fact 1: the oldest available manuscripts that contain rev 1:11 do not have the words " Alpha and omega" in that verse!

fact: 2: you have refused to tell us how the words came into the Textus Receptus

factc3: I've shown you several scholars who rejected the addition of those words, with reasons postulated about their views on that verse, you can see that they did not use the whole book of Revelation as defence, they focused only on the verse under discussion.

fact 4: you have not been able to show any scholar that supports the inclusion of those words in that verse.

CAPTIVATOR:
lol, forget that guy . do u notice he has changed his status quo from " God and the Word are one God " TO " God and the Word are God " . since he realize he couldn't prove his former statement biblically.

can you imagine!, he started with one allegation, saying I said something, told him to show where I said so, he must have gone back to check it, knew his allegations are false , he now came back to adjust the allegations.

johnw74:
When false jw's lies are exposed they then start calling you liar
and I expose plenty of their lies.

Just look at dolphinhearts attempts to deny having said "your god is a two headed god" concerning God and the Word,
he knows as clearely as I do that he said it, but Lie Lie dolphinheart twists away so as not having to truth up.

And barristter who quoted my post of bible verses and then replied Lie Lie John to the post,
afterwards he denied calling the Bible verses lies,
duh why would he post the quote if he just wanted to say Lie Lie John to me, he has done that plenty of times before, but Lie Lie barristter loves to lie

And Lie Lie captivator jumping in to support his fellow false jw's in their lies, and calling out Liar himself as the false jw accusers love to do.



Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



more truth on the sect that is called jehovahs' witnesses at these sites:

http://jwfacts.com/

https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jehovahs-witnesses-answered.htm

READERS SHOULD PLS NOTE THAT HE HAS ADJUSTED THE ALLEGATIONS!
what he stated I said before is different from what he stated I said now!

johnw74:
Here it is:

Here is the first post in the thread https://www.nairaland.com/3051431/jesus-christ-god#44743007

As you can see the thread is titled "Jesus Christ is God"
and as you can see the opening post is an Exegesis of John 1:1

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The thread is about John 1:1, the Word being God, which I also said in post two
the OP and myself are agreeing with John 1:1 that God and the Word are both God, two persons one God,
it's always been my belief.

dolphinheart said in post four "your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God"
and that is referring to my God, "God and the Word" John 1:1

EVERY ONE, PLS NOTICE THAT HE COULD NOT POST OR QUOTE MY FULL POST

brocab, pls comment, since you are eager to shut me up.

FOR STATERS TO THOSE READ ING THIS POST, BELOW IS MY FIRST POST ON THAT THREAD, UP TILL THIS MOMENT ON THAT THREAD. HE COULD NOT QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES IN THAT FIRST POST, NOR COULD HE PROOF THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS WRONG.

my post:
[b]Is the son the same person as the father ? no

is the son equal to the father? no, "the father is greater than i" the son says

did the son ever claim to be God almighty, God of isreal, the most high God? ? no, he only claimed to be the Son of God!

does the son sit on the same throne and have same authority as the father? no he sits at the right hand of God .

was the son given commands? yes, the almighty God cannot be given commands

does the son have a god (someone he worships ) ? yes, " I ascend to my Father... and to my God " he says.

does the son do things on his own? no , he does what the father tells him to do.

does the son show subjection to the father? absolutely yes

does the son have a beginning ? yes
does the father have? no

does the Scriptures seperate the person of God from the person of Jesus ? yes, all the time

has jesus described God? yes , he called him the father, " the only true god"

has God described jesus? yes , he called him " my son, in whom I'm well pleased"

is jesus subjected to God? yes

can you be with someone and be that same person? no

it has been established that God and Jesus are two different persons, there if you make jesus to be that same God, then your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!.
you also thus claim that Jesus and God are equal, something the scriptures never mentioned nor surpport.

for those who seek life, listen to this words

[b]Joh 3:16“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Joh 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

Joh 20:31But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

Eph 1:3Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,

1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Eph 4:6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all[/b]

These are the scriptures in which those who believe in Jesus and the father being the same God would not want to discuss with you , they prefer that the scriptures contradict itself so as to be able to hold on to their false beliefs.

The scriptures explains itself , after reading about the relationship between God and Jesus, it is left for us to now decide if the word is the same God it was with, or if he was a god who was with a much superior God, the almighty.

heb 1:9You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”[/b]

After his refusal to explain those scriptures I told him:
@ johnw74 , the above are absolute truths, that's why you can't refute any of them. you want to post about your doctrines, those scriptures I posted show's your doctrines are false!. that's y you can never ever explain those scriptures.

DID YOU NOTICE WHERE I TOLD HIM HIS DOCTRINES ARE FALSE! THE DOCTRINES ABOUT WHO GOD IS ?
I DID NOT STOP THEIR , I SHOW ED HIM MORE SCRIPTURES HE COULD NOT EXPLAIN!

the above will continue to stand as the truth, and surporters of false doctrine will continue to run away from it!

Re 1:1A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,

Re 1:5and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood—
yes
Re 1:6and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus has told us countless of times who my God is, he prayed to that God, thought me how to pray to that God, told us about his relationship with that God who exalted him above his companions.
I will not worship a man made God, a two or three headed God, for Jesus has told me , the father is the only true god!

Joh 17:1Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you,
Joh 17:2just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him.
Joh 17:3This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

one should read John chapter 17, it tells you more about the relationship between jesus and God.
[/b]

brocab:
For me I believe you, but If you can find it, show it, too shut him up. Lets see dolphinheart once more in Action, lying to the public.

you have your questions, statements and lies still pending, you have refused to respond to them, yet you want to shut someone else up on another person's matter .

johnw74:
oh I am very sure, and so are you

Lie Lie dolphinheart

and yet you could not state categorically how the conversation went!, it went something like! imagine!

zodiakzax:
go and make a research into it. Your founder believed in things that the WTS has changed over the years. If you want to know the truth then start questioning your very cult and their doctrines. John 20:28, Thomas here called Jesus my Lord and my God. Your blasphemous bible even translated it as such. Turn to God bfr it's too late for you.

thank you sir

solite3:
And you sheepishly follow not minding if they are wrong,

pls state just one of the things you think was thought then and I follow now.
add evidence to when it was thought then and my beliefs now!

You just like to make assertions without facts all the time!

why do you attack people who have held on to the unchangeable teachings of Christ but follow man made doctrine that changes like chameleon.

it remains for you to prove that they are unchangeable teachings of christ, you can do that by answering the questions asked in my post to you that you abandoned!

The watch tower has a very bad history,can you trust such? Remember what Jesus told you "A bad tree cannot bring forth a good fruit" if the tree ( watch tower ) was not bad it would not have produce a corrupt fruit ( history of lies )shalom

sir can you tell us about the history of your church or organization?

WITH THIS RESPONSE OF YOURS BELOW, READERS CAN NOW SEE YOU DID NOT DO ANY RESEARCH ON REVELATION 1:11, AND YOU COULD NOT DEFEND THE ATTEMPT AT DISCREDITING THE OLDER MANUSCRIPTS SO AS TO MAKE THE TEXTUS RECEPTUS RENDERING OF THAT ACCEPTABLE
like I said earlier, discrediting other sources does not make your source credible, applying the same method for Textus Receptus will totally unqualify it!

solite3:
no you prove to me it was added, you were the one who said Alpha and Omega was added to revelation 1:11 failure to do this will to expose you as a liar just like watch tower is been exposed for liars that they are, for me I trust God's word.

I've shown you proof several times, I told you that the words " Alpha and and omega" cannot be found in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts that contain rev 1:11.
therefore, those words where added later. to surpport my views, no evidence has yet been produced by you to surr port the source of those words in the critical texts.

proofs are contained in this manuscripts
www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/manuscript.aspx?book=59&chapter=1&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0

Codex Sinaiticus....... is one of the four great uncial codices , an ancient, handwritten copy of the Greek Bible. The codex is a celebrated historical treasure.
The codex is an Alexandrian text-type manuscript written in the 4th century in uncial letters on parchment . Current scholarship considers the Codex Sinaiticus to be one of the best Greek texts of the New Testament , along with that of the Codex Vaticanus......

The Codex Sinaiticus came to the attention of scholars in the 19th century at Saint Catherine's Monastery in the Sinai Peninsula, with further material discovered in the 20th and 21st centuries. Although parts of the Codex are scattered across four libraries around the world, most of the manuscript is today vested in the British Library London, where it is on public display. Since its discovery, study of the Codex Sinaiticus has proven to be extremely useful to scholars for critical studies of biblical text.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus

it a well known facts that those words where not present in the other oldest manuscripts that contained rev 1:11.
We can also take is as fact that since no evidence has yet been bought forward for the existence of Alpha and omega in that particular verse yet, and that all other manuscripts which had that verse do NOT have those words recorded there, I take it that the words "Alpha and omega" where deliberate later additions to the book of Revelation, and the Textus Receptus added it when there was no or little manuscripts available to guide him.
large number of the critical texts available today, which where authored when better and more reliable manuscripts became available, do not have such words recorded in that verse.
conclusion: As the text containing Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:11 has no uncial support or any manuscripts prior to the ninth century it clearly lacks authority and that is why it is not included in most recent translations!

There are only three places in the entire Bible where the title "Alpha and Omega" is used: Rev. 1:8 ; Rev. 21:6 ;Rev. 22:13. "Alpha and Omega" as found at Rev. 1:11 in the KJV and NKJV is recognized as spurious by most modern Bible scholars:
"Virtually all modern translations do not include in Rev 1:11 the following words that are in the KJV version of that verse:
"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:and,
"This wording at the beginning of the KJV's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any ancient texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in any modern translation or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition, New York: United Bible Societies, 1994"

Also add were you explained Jesus has same nature as God.I can't believe you said that
Dolphins heart: Jesus has same nature as God
Solite:Then Jesus is God
Dolphinsheart: Solite you are lying that's not what I meant
Solite:what do you mean?
dolphins heart: I meant Jesus has same nature with God
Solite: wat do you even mean by the word nature, define it
dolphins heart
Solite

I responded to this in the post in which that issue is being discussed, pls go back there and respond, dnt act like you did not see it .

zodiakzax:
can you tell us about the Finished mystery?

sorry ,nope.

zodiakzax:
On pgs. 66, 69, 211, 423, 560, 648, and 719 of Jehovah's Witnesses--- 39)? Proclaimers of God's Kingdom the , reference is made to Studies in the Scriptures The Finished Mystery , which was the 7th of series published by the WTS in 1917 (pg 66, 719), and was the major publication of the WTS at that time. On pgs. 88, 648, and 651, a picture of this book appear s, complete with the winged disk symbol of the Egyptian sun god Ra on its front cover. Is it true that The Finished Mystery taught that Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, and the Almighty of Rev 1:8 (pg 15), that Christ established a "Church" (pg 17), that Christ returned invisibly in 1874 (pg 54, 60, 68), that Armageddon was definitely going to occur in the spring of 1918 (pg 62 and 128), that the Holy Spirit has a personality (pg 57), that the great pyramid of Giza was God's stone w itness and was used to predict the year of Armageddon (pg 60), that Christ was crucified (pg 68), that Heb 1:6 is translated, “Let all the angels of God worship him” (pg 104), that Leviathan of the Bible refers to the steam locomotive (pg 85), that Michael are his bishops (pg 188), that Nah 2:3is the Pope of Rome and the angels 6 describes the railway train (pg 93), that the great earthquake of Rev 6:12 refers literally to the Lisbon earthquake of Nov 1, 1775, and it refers symbolically to the American Rev olution (pg 119), that the sun becoming black in Rev 6:12 refers literally to a dark day which occurred on May 19, 1780, and refers symbolically to the light of the papal heavens darkened when Napoleon fined the Pope 10 million dollars and took the Pope a prisoner to France (pg 120), that Christ is eternal, “the same yesterday, today, and forever. Heb 13:8 pg 142), and that the Seventh Volume of Studies in the Scriptures (also known as The Finished Mystery) is “Divinely provided” (pg 145)? According to "current" WTS teachings, Christ began to reign in heaven in 1914 and around 1918 chose the WTS as his earthly organization because they were the only ones teaching "the Truth". If this was so, then Jesus would have known the teachings of the WTS as put forth in The Finished Mystery, published in 1917. Do you really think that Jesus would have chosen an organization which taught so many things that were not correct according to "current" WTS teachings and are no longer taught as "the Truth"? Since God does not tell lies or change his mind (Num 23:19, Ps 89:34, Heb 6:18), and it is clear that the WTS could not have possibly been speaking for God when they taught these things, at least according to current WTS teachings, how do you know that the WTS is speaking for God now?

na you ask question, na you answer!

like I always say those who try go bring these issues to me, I have knowledge only about what Ive learnt and what I'm presently being taught.