₦airaland Forum

As a Christian, pls ecain to the op what the scriptures is saying. No derogatory or abusive words needed.

OLAADEGBU:
You need to twist scriptures to arrive at your twisted interpretation. Scriptures said Enoch did not see death, don't twist it to mean what you want it to mean.

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).



To get a better understanding of what our Lord Jesus meant when He used the word "ascend" check out Emusan's post above. You are showing the traits of the deceived seeking to deceive others. You said that there is no place in scripture that said Enoch went to heaven and now where it said Elijah went to heaven you now want us to believe that meant to say something else. As I said before, you don't have to make the scriptures say what you want it to say, let the Bible speak.

"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (2 Kings 2:11).



What our Lord Jesus said in John 3:13 is an emphatic claim to deity and was a direct answer to the question He asked in Proverbs 30:4, that He is the only begotten Son of God, the uncreated Creator of heaven and earth.

"Who has ascended up into heaven, or descended? who has gathered the wind in his fist? who has bound the waters in a garment? who has established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if you can tell" (Proverbs 30:4).

It is you who has to stop all this ur lies.
It is you who has to stop adding to the scriptures what the scriptures did not say.

Have you not learnt that you have to always lie in other to cover the first lie, thus making the lies to grow in propulsion?

With the lies you have been throwing about , you hooked yourself and thus was unable to answer bible questions posted to you by mizjanet .

1.U said enoch and elijah did not die, how do you explain the statement that "all have died because they have sinned" ?

2. U said I twist the scriptures, did you not read Hebrews 11:13? . Was apostle paul wrong in saying they all ( all the people mentioned from verse 1including enoch)
Died?

3. U say I twist the scriptures, I want to ask you, does all reference the word heaven in the bible mean the spiritual abode of God? . Are there references to the word heaven meaning something else than the spiritual realm? If yes, how then do we understand what that reference mean?

4. Did you not read about the activities of elijah on earth after the chariot incident? Did you not read that he later wrote a letter to an earthly king?

5. Have you not read that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?.

6. In ur own words, can you explain how a human can cleans himself of his inherited sin to be able to enter into Gods holy presence for a first time.

7. Jesus stated, no one can come to the father except through him, how did elijah and enoch now enter heaven without jesus?

8. If elijah and enoch did go into paradise ,then,pls tell us where is paradise. ?

9. You are quick to use a post that supports ur view, the post says all the saints went to heaven or paradise, my question to you is, if they are in paradise, who will jesus come to earth to ressurect in the last days.?

10. What do you understand by paul statement in the last two verses of heb chapter 11.

11. Why did jesus die for our sins if there was another way we can be reconciled to God and enter paradise.

You first lie needed to be surpported by other lies, and this has created a mass of lies that you can't now explain away.

In ur explanation of enoch and elijah, (a)when will there coming back to earth occur, before ur rapture or after ur rapture?. (b)What will happen to all those who did not go with the rapture? (c)Will there be a second rapture, will all those left behind all die or go to ur hell fire? (c)If some will later go to heaven, why where they not raptured in the first place?

You can see that my questions and statements where numbered, pls do not give a muddled up reply.

Bible prophecies being fufilled, the wild beast is gradually turning against the great harlot.

If I where those churches , I will refuse to have legal right to marry people, will leave that for the world government and stick to what the bible says. But greed no go allow them do that one.

If you want to have a church ceremony, first be a member of the church, the church must also make sure that homosexuals are not members so as not to create any legal issues later on. But will those churches do that? Guess not , why? Those homosexual tithes are vital to their pockets.

johnw74:
Haha when you are being hammered, out comes the accusations



Mat 22:44 The LORD (Kurios) said unto my Lord (Kurios), Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

The Greek word here for both LORD (God) and Lord (Word of God) is Kurios,
showing that God and the Word of God, are both God, and that the Lord, (Word of God), is not "a god"

Ill like to understand you better.

Do you believe in trinity?
What is ur understanding on the trinity doctrine?

In the sciptures u quoted. Why is capital letters used in one occurence and small letters used in other occurrence of the same word.?

paulGrundy:
You are the one who is not being sincere.

This was what you said

.

This was what you claimed you said



“Present teachings“ have suddenly been altered to “understanding of the bible scriptures“

Well am not suprised like watchtower like JW

If you've transformed to an anti-JW troll let me know so that can press my ignore button.

I would rather you go to BERNIMORE for trolling classes, his years of experience may be of help to you

Answer the questions you where being asked!

paulGrundy:
I don't understand why you keep turning yourself in circles, is this about your ego or about the truth? Many JW's in this forum JMAN05 and co, even watchtower publications admit that the NWT of those verses deviate from the literal manuscripts, the only problem is that they claim that NWT translates it accurately. There have been several threads on those verses in this site. if you want to engage me, simple! Open a new thread, invite me, and I will honour. I can't seem to understand the hesitation on your part. I have no apologies for anyone whose ego has been gored.

Funny you

I asked you simple questions on the scriptures you quoted to show us how it has been mis interpretated. Pls do that!

If you feel the nwt translation falsely or inacurately used english words to represent the greek words or sentences the scriptures where written in, pls explain it to us.

I asked someone a question , you jumped in , I asked you to explain ur post with facts, you now say I should create a thread for that. .

You even refused to go into the main questions relating tp the topic. What is the process or procedure for disfellowshiping/ excommunicating a member of the congregation as stated in the bible.
What organization do you associate with? And what is their own procedure?

MizJanet:
seems no one could bail that christian girl out , you mean all of you dont understand psalm 90:2 and proverb 8:24 ?

Those scriptures and the bible in general helps us to know that jesus was created by God. He was his first creation, the begining of his creation.

God created numerous living creatures and called them his sons. But the first is jesus , and he used jesus as a master worker in creating every other thing. That's why jesus is the only begotten son.

This son is a verry powerful spirit , but his love and loyalty to his creator enabled him to be humble enough to shed his natural nature to be a man(flesh ).
Jesus has always been loyal and has at all times been doing what his creator tells him to do . He delights in it .
That is why after showing such loyalty till death, his creator exalted him above everything else except his creator himself.

Most people who believe in the false doctrine of trinity cannot even explain it.

If you put three people who believe in the doctrine in the same room and ask them to explain there believe, two will tell you different things while the other will tell you its beyond human understanding.

paulGrundy:
Typical red herring approach, I knew it since you were backed to the corner, you would try to derail the thread

You questioned the accuracy of the NWT, I showed you the mistranslations. If you want to question the contextual meaning/interpretations of those text, open a seperate thread, state these points there and invite me, I will honour it.

Haba! , I'm now derailing the thread! .
You say its mistranslated, pls prove its mistranslated na! . How can you know its the translation is correct or not if you dnt question the contextual meaning/ interpretations of the texts.
You are trying to confuse people, you ended up tying urself in knots. You can't answer the questions you assertations digged up.

paulGrundy:
. Ok let me help you out.




Jwfacts.mobi



The 1919 cleasing of the FDS is still believed to this day and it has changed only slightly, if not the gb would no longer the spiritual leader of the watchtower.

Proof in the quote below:

"To settle that question, Jesus began to inspect the spiritual temple in 1914. That inspection and cleansing work involved a period of time—from 1914 to the early part of 1919.[3] ... Endnotes:... Paragraph 6: [3] This is an adjustment in understanding. Previously, we thought that Jesus’ inspection took place in 1918." (Watchtower 2013 Jul 15 pp.11,14)

The generations teaching which has changed over time is still believed.

What other proof again do you want? . Should I provide you with the Video clip of a governing body member writing the above quote?

A sincere mind reading your post will see where ur quotes have gone wrong.
You are indirectly showing how good they are .

1. If you think fleeing from false doctrines and its propaganda as environmental control. Then I do not find your christianity questionable.
Bet you will be happy as a freedom fighter, the recent trend in legalizing gay marriage. You have not said anything on that issue (homosexual) yet.

If you think being on guard against those you choose as friends means you should not have any friend at all. Then you have a lot to learn about jehovahs witnesses. You are quick to search out how they are to be on guard against worldly people, but not quick to search out how they advice you in selecting friends, in the organization and outside, and what friendship should entail.
Should you as a Christian be friends with someone who acts in ways that are contrary to ur bible trained conscience? Does such actions determine you are a cult.?

2. Mystical manipulations? Do you have to lie or follow a lie to prove ur claim?

3. Demand for purity . So if an organization strive to be pure before jehovah , it means that that organization is a cult abi? .
Bro , that the organization you associate with is not able to achieve that level or purity does not mean those who are trying to achieve and maintain the level of purity as required by the scriptures are a cult.

When you attend a congregation of witnesses, you will see there is no discrimination as to race or colour, no white or black only church. No race based religious group.
Like you have noticed, those with sincere humble hearts that attend their gatherings feel warm and welcomed. It takes them away from the mindset of these selfish, self assuming, position seeking, violent world we live in. Is that not a good thing? Is it not a good thing to talk about good things to come for mankind? .

4. I dnt need to go into the good quotes you posted. Unless you want to prove that following the scriptures directives requires you being a cult. or has any of the things you listed in 4 gone contrary to scriptural directives on such issues?

5. It is easy to see your exagerations. Tell me, do you have personal opinions contrary to the religious organization you associate with? If yes,what is the religious association and what is ur contrary opinion .?

6. Verry funny, bet Catholics, Anglicans etc and there words make them narrow minded and a cult. if not ,then you are wrong in saying jehovahs witnesses are a cult.

7. I do not understand you, have you forgoten that the organization you are accusing of being a cult is a religious based organization?
You point to their general outlook but avoid there statements on individual outlook and emotions. I see hypocricy here. The words " people generally is there to show you that the next words is not meant for everybody.





It seems you dnt to understand simple requests, I asked you to show me that your or the undestanding of the bible scriptures goes contrary to the organizations understanding. You are here repeating and rephrasing with no bible verse or verses to show that the organizations understanding is wrong.

@ paulgrundy impostor

Torture stake/cross: what is the original greek word used in the new testament and what does it mean ? .

How can you prove that the english word "cross" is correct/accurate/right than the english words "torture stake " in describing the greek word.

Did the bible describe the structure in which jesus was impaled to imply that the use of the word "torture state is wrong"


John 1:1 : Is there an indefinite article in the original greek manuscript ? If the answer is no, why then do some translations add the letter "a" in other places . When you tell us "why", we can then go back to john 1:1 to see why the nwt and some other translations render it differently .

Romans 10:10.: I dnt understand you here, is public preaching wrong?(read 1 cor 9:16)
The word "may" has already put a big question mark on ur assertions.
What is that scripture telling you?

Nwt. :with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the
mouth one makes public
declaration for salvation.

New International Version: For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are
saved.

New Living Translation: For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.


International Standard Version: For one believes with his heart
and is justified, and declares
with his mouth and is saved.

GOD'S WORD® Translation : By believing you receive God's approval, and by declaring your faith you are saved.

I surely do not see anything wrong in how the nwt rendered that verse.



John 17:3 : Do you know who God is once or there is a continous knowledge (learning ) about God ?
Can you claim to know everything there is no know about jehovah?

What is wrong if the scripture
As rendered in nwt implies an ongoing study. Is there a time you stop studying ?

Pls read
Ephesians 4:13
Philippians 1:9
1 Timothy 6:20
2 Peter 3:18


Luke 23:43 : What time did the thief go into paradise.? Where is paradise? Does the original greek texts have commas?
Does all the other translations follow the same format in the placement of commas in their translations?

Criticism on the use of the name jehovah in the new testament:

The way I address this issue to to first ask you. Does your bible remove Gods name in some, if not all places it has been found to be mentioned ? Why was this done.

paulGrundy:
http://jwfacts.mobi/fear-and-mind-control/



"Generations" teaching has no scriptural basis.

That in the year 1919, Jesus cleansed the FDS has no root or trace to the bible.

"In 1919 the cleansed slave class could look forward to ever-expanding activities." Watchtower 1993 May 1 p.16

"Similarly, starting in 1919, Jehovah brought forth the seed of the woman as a spiritual nation." Revelation - It's Grand Climax p.184



1. the use of "torture stake" instead of "cross" throughout the New Testament;[274] the rendering of John 1:1, with the insertion of the indefinite article ("a" in its rendering to give "the Word was a god".

2.Romans 10:10, which uses the term "public declaration", which may reinforce the imperative to engage in public preaching, John 17:3, which used the term "taking in knowledge" rather than "know" to suggest that salvation is dependent on ongoing study.

3. the placement of the comma in Luke 23:43, which affects the timing of the fulfillment of Jesus' promise to the thief at Calvary.

Also criticized is the NWT's insertion of the name Jehovah 237 times in the New Testament without extant New Testament Greek manuscript evidence that the name existed there.

1. You have not shown me that they are a cult. Dnt direct me to a website, tell me why you think they are cult

2. You have not shown any of their present beliefs that goes contrary to bible teachings. Pls Note the word "contrary" in my question.

johnw74:
Sure, here they are

changed teachings

Key behind jwfacts.com is the concept that God does not direct doctrinal interpretation of the Watchtower Society, as proven by the ongoing changes to Watchtower doctrine.

A Witness will retort the Bible says the "Light Gets Brighter" and so changes are indication Watchtower it is directed by Jehovah. This is nothing more than justification for error.

This section helps prove that the concept of getting brighter is not valid. In many cases, Watchtower doctrine has not brightened or been enhanced but changed and then reverted back to the original position; flip-flopped. At other times, Watchtower has introduced doctrine as having come from Jehovah, only to later make a complete reversal to what was said. Following are a number of these doctrine.

Keep reading: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/changed-watchtower-teachings.php

Read throug the articles here: http://www.jwfacts.com/ and you will find all the proofs you ask for.

U say they are not christians, that they are cult . Show prove!!!
Show one prove that relates them to a cult group
Show one prove that shows the bible goes against their present teachings
Show one prove that they altered the bible .

johnw74:
Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian?

by Matt Slick

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness' organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. These make it non-Christian. In addition, to support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness' theology) has altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.



Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:

Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire Biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.

Additionally, the Jehovah's Witness' organization requires of its members regular weekly attendance at their "Bible Study" meetings where they are repeatedly indoctrinated with anti-Christian teachings. This is done by reading the Watchtower magazine, following along with what it says, reading the questions it asks, and reciting the answers it gives. In other words, the Watchtower Organization carefully trains its members to let the Organization do their thinking for them. For confirmation of this, please read Does the Watchtower organization control the JW's thinking?

The Witnesses are told they will be persecuted when they go door-to-door teaching their doctrines. They are further told that this is simply the enemy fighting against God's organization because they are in "the truth." So, when someone disagrees with them, they are conditioned to reflect on what the Watchtower has told them. They then feel confirmed in being in God's true organization on earth (like all cults claim).

Continue reading here:
https://carm.org/is-the-jehovahs-witness-religion-christian

Prove!!! Show prove!!!.

Emusan:
Imaging after you've said that the Bible doesn't have exert age a child is weaning but your quote from 2 Ch 31:16 says "FROM THREE YEARS OLD"
which means a child can't be weaned unless the child is THREE YEARS OLD.

Mean while this still supports my initial post.

Thank God you can still say "This happy event could call for a feast such as the one Abraham arranged at the weaning of Isaac."



Go back to school, you're not yet weaned.

ANY WEANED CHILD IS ALREADY THREE YEARS OLDER that's why Hannah herself said in the verse 22 that UNTIL THE CHILD WEANED which means UNTIL The Child reached a PARTICULAR AGE. take that into your skull!



Date of Birth begins immediately a child being born, according to you "Service at the temple begin at 3 years" if the day of birth isn't being counted, how will they know that the Child is 3 YEARS OLD for the service of the TEMPLE? Don't dodge my question ooo



Are you for real?
If the day isn't associated with Birthday, how will they know that the Child is a particular year older?
Maybe weaning is through a random sampling.



Anybody reading your post can quickly spot the lie, a child that is not 3 YEARS in AGE can't be weaned, please is there an exert age mentioned?



See useless answer, Birthday simply means the DAY ONE WAS BORN and from that day, day will begin to count on the person.
So if a child must be 3 YEARS OLD before being weaned, please would they start to count its day of weaning when he/she was still in the womb?



According to the scripture before a child can be weaned READY FOR THE SERVICE OF THE TEMPLE, the child must be 3 YEARS OLD, please when will the counting of his weaning start, while he was still in the womb or the very day he came out from the womb (day of birth-Birthday)?



So a day in which God out of His infinite mercy has preserved my life for helping me to see another round day while my life started on earth, isn't called for THANKS!



Here is your statement "This happy event could call for a feast such as the one Abraham arranged at the weaning of Isaac



See how you contradicted yourself, you said in the above that THIS HAPPY EVENT but here you said weaning isn't an EVENT.



Abraham arranged a BIG FEAST, please isn't FEAST a celebration?
And with the fact I've provided above weaning is done AT A PARTICULAR AGE



Please do you mean ONLY ISRAELITE practice WEAN?
Lol...A child is weaned not wean himself, what if my parent arranged the birthday celebration for me any offense?



When your organization had already done that.
Go back to my previous post I didn't say Hannah celebrated any thing.



And Abraham celebrated Isaac's birthday at the age of his weaning which is 3 years old.

Desperation to find fault will not allow you to understand what I posted.

1 . I repeat, the scriptures did not state an exact date a child is to be weaned. It can be 1 month , 6 months or ten years after birth.

the scriptures of 2 ch 31:16 did not make any reference to weaning . I quoted it in reference to Hannah taking samuel to the temple . She could not have done it unless samuel was 3 years and above. In essence and in particular , samuel was weaned at any age from 3 years and above. Samuel could gave been weaned at age 3 or 4 or 5 or even ten. There is no exact birthdate or age required for temple service other than it must be at any age on or above 3 years.

So pls dnt twist my statements.
A childs weaning period is not determined by his age. Weda weaned or not weaned, he cannot enter into temple service unless he is at age 3 or above. Linking weaning with age 3 is not a scriptural teaching.

2.derogatory statements are not for christians
Like I said, and like the scriptures make us to understand, weaning does not have a stated time period . The process called weaning have been explained in my post and the process is not complete untill the child passes through a stage in his life. I does not have an exact age!. The scriptures did not stage any age for weaning.
In relation to Hannah , the scriptures stated that samuel was taking to the temple when he was weaned , the rules for service indicated 3 years and above. So we can state that samuel(not all other children) was weaned at any time above 3 years of age.

3oga, birthday is different from birthdate. The day that one is born is recorded but not celebrated or marked. So the isrealites know the date when they where born according to the hebrew calender, but do not attach any pagan ceremonial attachment to it.
You can count ur age,as you grow older everyday. but celebrating the day of birth is pagan.

4. The scriptures did not indicate the date Isaac was weaned. It did not say abraham celebrated Isaacs birthday. The day Isaac was weaned could be at any age or day after his birth. He becomes weaned at any are he does not need his mother again for nourishment and protection and other things . This could be any age .Do not try to link Isaacs weaning with age 3. Do not try to link Isaacs weaning with birthday . The scriptures did not indicate such.

5 the scriptures did not give a time period or date to weaning.

The scriptures did not relate weaning to temple service when the law as to age of temple service was stated.

The minimum age for temple service is 3 years, one can also enter temple service at any age after age 3.
Stop bringing false understanding to what the scriptures says.

6. Good, everyday that one is being preserved by jehovah calls for rejoicing. Days is the only accurate accepted time measurement after the hebrew calender. All others calenders do not correspond with each other.the scriptures encourage us to praise jah every day.

7. . We are learning from the scriptures here. The scriptures did not indicate an anniversary for weaning. If I'm wrong pls show me where such anniversary is indicated.

8 "weaning" is a process and not an event. "Weaned" can be termed to be an event, depending on the person marking it. Pls read the definition of weaned and weaning again. Do not misquote me or do slice and join to my words. Abraham did not have a feast at Isaacs weaning but at when Isaac was weaned.

9. Fact: the bible did not indicate or make mention that a child must be weaned at a particular age.
Fact: even the law did not state a particular age for entry into temple service, it only states a minimum.
Fact: the bible definitely did not state that abraham celebrated Isaacs birthday.
Fact: the bible indicated what the feast was for, it was for the time Isaac became weaned. Not his birthday.

10. Weaning is a process performed by all mammals, not only isrealites.
Whosover celebrates ur birthday for you, as long as you dnt participate in it, then its not ur own birthday. Wherever they do it and whosoever attends, it is fallacy.

11. True, no argument , the bible did not say Hannah had any celebration after samuel was weaned.

If you feel or know that birthday celebration does not have root in astrology or spiritism , pls let us know.

@ emusan
Nice to see you have agreed that they died and did not go to heaven.
What bothers me is ur search for something wrong where there is nothing wrong. We are discussing from the bible here on if enoch and elijah went to heaven during their time(before jesus came to earth) and not on if they will ever go to heaven or are in heaven now.

I will explain my view on ur statement only once on these thread, dnt want to derail it.

Pls, can you show me where it is states that they will live in a city? A city the pious one will build?

(Hebrew 11:16
King James Bible
But now they desire a better
country, that is, an heavenly:
wherefore God is not
ashamed to be called their
God: for he hath prepared for
them a city.

King James 2000 Bible
But now they desire a better
country, that is, a heavenly:
therefore God is not ashamed
to be called their God: for he
has prepared for them a city.

American King James
Version
But now they desire a better
country, that is, an heavenly:
why God is not ashamed to be
called their God: for he has
prepared for them a city.)

You tried to link the word "city" in this verse with the view of jehovahs witnesses on their building works after armagedon. People might not see your twistings , but I see it.


You did not tell us about the city prepared by jehovah,what city is that ? Is it for their residence or does preparing such city signify something else.
Heb 11:10, 16;
12:22;
13:14 .
Re 11:2
Re 21:2-27;
22:14, 19;
3:12.(pls read those verses)



Note that also that verse did not say they will go to heaven , but that they lounged for a heavenly country.
Did this faithful loyal servants of jehovah later go to heaven ?
After listing many pre Christian
persons of faith, Hebrews
11:39, 40 says: And these all, having obtained a good report
through faith, received not the
promise: 40 God having
provided some better thing for
us, that they without us should
not be made perfect.
* some translations use "apart from us" in verse 40
.
Note the words in that verse which are "promise", "us", "they".

The promise of heaven was made by jesus to his followers and it is based on his ransom sacrifice. There was no mention of heavenly hope for those that died before jesus came.
The term "us and they" let's us understand that paul was talking about two groups of people .

Who are here meant by “us”? Hebrews 3:1 shows that they are “partakers of the heavenly
calling." The pre-Christian
persons who had faith,(the "they" in that verse) then,
must have a hope for perfect life somewhere other than in
heaven.
Ps. 37:29: “The righteous
themselves will possess the
earth, and they will reside
forever upon it.”
Rev. 21:3, 4: “Look! The tent of
God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”


“Not Made Perfect Apart From
Us.”
After reviewing the record of
faithful men of the pre Christian period from Abel onward, the apostle says none of these got “the fulfillment of the promise, as God foresaw something better for us, in order that they might not be made perfect apart from
us.” ( Heb 11:39, 40) The “us”
here clearly refers to anointed
Christians ( Heb 1:2; Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 2:1-4 : Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard........ which at
the first began to be spoken by
the Lord, and was confirmed
unto us by them that heard
him; .......),

“partakers of the heavenly
calling” ( Heb 3:1) for whom
Christ “inaugurated . . . a new
and living way” into the holy
place of God’s heavenly
presence. ( Heb 10:19, 20) That
heavenly calling includes service as heavenly priests of God and of Christ during Christ’s Thousand Year Reign. “Power of judging” is also granted them.
( Re 20:4-6)
Logically, then, the heavenly life and privileges that the called ones receive is the
“something better” that God
foresaw for such anointed
Christians. ( Heb 11:40) The
revealing of them as they go into action from heaven with Christ to destroy the wicked system, however, is to open the way for bringing liberation from enslavement to corruption for those of creation reaching out for “the glorious freedom of the
children of God.” ( Ro 8:19-22)
Hebrews 11:35 shows that
faithful men of pre-Christian
times maintained integrity under suffering “in order that they might attain a better resurrection,” evidently one better than that of the “dead” referred to at the start of the verse, persons who were
resurrected only to die again.
(Compare 1Ki 17:17-23; 2Ki
4:17-20, 32-37.)
For these faithful men of pre-Christian times, therefore, their being “made perfect” must relate to their resurrection, or restoration to life, and thereafter their being “set free from enslavement to corruption” by the services of the priesthood of Christ Jesus and his underpriests during the Millennial Rule.

In conclusion enoch and elijah did not go to heaven and the views of jehovahs witneses is not contrary to the bibles view in these matter.

Emusan:
Very funny of you.

You do not see them lying when they wrote in their booklet that Justin Martyr, Origin, Clement of Alexandria e.t.c didn't teach anything about Trinity whereas all the works of these Ante-Nicene fathers shows that they all taught Trinity.

See the picture of the booklet "Should you believe in the Trinity?" page 7 below; Notice all these points from what your organization claimed in that page:
1. These fathers were ACKNOWLEDGE to have been leading religious teachers.
2. Dated back to the early century of CHRIST'S BIRTH.
3. That these fathers TAUGHT WHAT IS OF INTEREST.

YET! These people never taught of anyone using the Divine name.

So which means if these father actually taught what JWs didn't believe then JWs' teaching needs to be questioned.

So there's no winning way about it, it's either these three compliments about these fathers by JWs is true or false.
-If it's true then JWs' teaching needs to be thrown inside hell because from these fathers' work we know their teaching is totally different from that of JWs.
-If it's false why then JWs is using false teaching to support their own teaching which means they only make these fantastic statements to deceive people like you.

Now you've avoided the main point of this thread which is celebration of Birthday.

It's birthday a pagan practice now?

*NOTE: I'll ask you again, why did you think your organization remove the booklet "Should you believe in the Trinity" in their online Library?

I wish I could discuss your view with you but
1. I dnt have a copy of the book for my own reference right here.
2 you have not provided prove that there statements where false
3. I dnt want to derail the thread.


On birthday : I have not avoided the topic. Yes birthday is a pagan celebration and originated from pagan beliefs and culture and you have not proved otherwise or shown where birthday is celebrated or originated by loyal servants of jehovah .

No matter who practise birthday celebration now, it does not change it pagan roots.

@ emusan

Weaned: To detach from that to which one is strongly habituated or devoted: She weaned herself
from cigarettes.
To accustom to something
from an early age. Often used
with on: "The northerners
among the refugees ... were
weaned on harsh weather and
infertile soils and are known for their rigorous work
ethic"

Weaning is the process of
gradually introducing a mammal infant to what will be its adult diet and withdrawing the supply of its mother's milk.
The process takes place only in mammals, as only mammals
produce milk. The infant is
considered to be fully weaned
once it is no longer fed any
breast milk (or bottled
substitute).

The process of training a nursing child to take food in another way.

In ancient times, a mother
usually breast-fed her child for
some time, unless such
circumstances as inability to
produce sufficient milk or her
untimely death required that a
nursing woman be acquired for
that purpose. ( Ex 2:5-10)
The time when breast-feeding was discontinued marked a
significant point in the young
one’s life. ( Isa 11:8; 28:9 :
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall
he make to understand
doctrine? them that are
weaned from the milk, and
drawn from the breasts.)

This happy event could call for a feast such as the one Abraham arranged at the weaning of Isaac.(Ge 21:8.:
And the child grew, and was
weaned: and Abraham made a
great feast the same day that
Isaac was weaned.)

In those days, women nursed
their children much longer than they do now in most parts of the earth. Upon being weaned, Samuel was old enough to be placed in the care of High Priest Eli and to serve at the tabernacle. ( 1Sa 1:24-28. : And when she had weaned him, she took him up with her, with three bullocks, and one ephah of flour, and a bottle of wine, and brought him unto the house of the LORD in Shiloh: and the child was young. And they slew a bullock, and brought the child to Eli.
And she said, Oh my lord, as thy soul liveth, my lord, I am the woman that stood by thee here, praying unto the LORD.
For this child I prayed; and the LORD hath given me my petition which I asked of him.
Therefore also I have lent him
to the LORD; as long as he
liveth he shall be lent to the
LORD. And he worshipped the
LORD there. )

He must have been at least three years old then, for the
registration of Levite males
began at that age. ( 2Ch 31:16 :
Beside their genealogy of males, from three years old
and upward, even unto every
one that entereth into the
house of the LORD, his daily
portion for their service in their
charges according to their
courses)

In his book Family, Love and the Bible (London, 1960, p. 175),
Raphael Patai says of Arab
children: “Cases are known
where a child was suckled until
his tenth year.”.

A weaned child, though no
longer yearning for nourishment from its mother, still finds security and satisfaction in her arms.
Comparably, David had soothed and quieted his soul “like a weanling upon his mother,” and his soul was ‘like a weanling upon him.’ Apparently it was soothed, quieted, and satisfied because he did not desire prominence, had manifested humility, avoided haughtiness, and refrained from walking in
things too great for him. He
urged Israel to act similarly,
humbly ‘waiting for Jehovah to
time indefinite.’— Ps 131:1-3.

What do we take from these
1. The bible did not say or indicate the exact age a child is weaned, talkless of it being on his third birthday. Even ur post shows that.

2 . The scriptures does not indicate or imply that Hannah took samuel to the temple at exactly 3 years of age.

3 . Service at the temple begin at 3 years and any additional day onward. No exact day or birthdate is required. What is required is that the child must be at least 3 years old.

4. The scriptures did not say abraham celebrated Isaacs birthday. the day one was weaned is not in anyway associated with birthdate in the scriptures. That day signifies the day he can now be taught other more important things bout life. No mention of birthdate, birthday or his exact age is mentioned In relation to when a child is weaned.
"Birthday" and "day" are two different words in the bible and cannot be used in exchange of each other.
5. The childs personality, body structure and a host of other heredictory factors determine when a child is termed weaned and is not associated with how long he/she has Lived on earth.

6. A day a child starts learning about his God is a joyous occassion, everyday inclusive every increase in knowledge of God should call for thanks.
7. Unlike birthdays, the scriptures did not indicate an anniversary of weaning.
8. Unlike birthdays, weaning is a process not an event, and the completion of that process(with no exact date indicated) can call for joy.
9. Unlike birthdays, the isrealites weaned their children and God approved of it but there was no mention of birthday celebration.
10. Birthday and weaning or weaned are totally seperate and not identical and can't ve used as comparison . Weaning is not pagan created custom while birthday is. Weaning is done for a period of time and essential for the childs growth while birthday is marked ones a year, at a particular date and not essential for a childs growth. A child is weaned and does not wean himself while birthdays is celebrated by the celebrant and not celebrated for him.

11. There was no mention of Hannah having any sort of celebration after weaning samuel. Pls dnt imply or add to what the bible does not say.

Birthday is based on pagan astrology views and plastered with spiritistic and magical processes, weaning is done out of love for the child and proper growth.

Emusan:
How come I can see all these lies BUT YOU who is the majority READER didn't see the lies?

Please @bold-which TRUTH do you want me to see again from the above listed lies?

All I'm asking from you is to prove me wrong that those thing are not from Watchtower Society.



I'm not only implying that you're close-minded but still maintain my posit that your view is contrary to what your organization teaches which I supported with evidence just as you couldn't counter it in my previous post nor refuted any aforementioned lies about your organization.



Thank God that you only THINK, if you ask for my organization I will tell you.



How can an organization claimed to be mouth piece of God and directed by the Spirit of God and continue to LIE?
God can not lie, so anything that must come from God can't contain any element of lie YET your organization that claimed to be directed by a God who can't lie involved with many lies.

If this isn't a thing to ponder over for you it's a big concern to me.



@bold-that's wrong claim, there's nothing you believe apart from what Watchtower teaches.
Unless you want to tell me that you're not subscribed to everything Watchtower teaches but once you agree with ALL WHAT IT TEACHES Mr man you don't have your own believe.

Since you use scripture as a guide, how do you understand 1 Tim 6:16 "who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen."




Actually, I was waiting to this end so that you can know that your organization truly perverted the scriptures to suit themselves.
Your Brother CANTICLES also bragged with this statement

Now with this I'm going to show you from NWT that if Birthday celebration is PAGAN and celebrated by pagan then Abraham is also a pagan for celebrating Isaac's birthday.

There are a lot of cross-references represented with alphabet at the center of NWT and on online edition with plus (+) sign. What does it mean? It means the particular verse in view has direct link with the one being referenced to.

With this in mind, now let's go to real business.

Genesis 21:8 reads, "Now the child kept growing and came to be weaned; e [size=14pt]and Abraham then prepared a big feast on the day of Isaac’s being weaned."[/size] When you look at the reference to "e" in the center column it refers you to 1 Samuel 1:22 which read "But Han′nah did not go up,+ for she said to her husband: “As soon as the boy is weaned, I will bring him; then he will appear before Jehovah and remain there from then on.” + when you click at the last plus (+) sign it refers you to 2 Chronicles 31:16 that read "This was in addition to the distribution made [size=14pt]to the males from three years old[/size] and up who were listed in the genealogical enrollment, who came daily to serve in the house of Jehovah and to carry out the duties of their divisions."

From the above we know that a Child is weaned when he is three years old, to support this I'll quote from Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary on the meaning of WEAN Wean:- Among the Hebrews children (whom it was customary for the mothers to nurse, Ex. 2:7-9; 1 Sam. 1:23; Cant. 8:1) were not generally weaned till they were three or four years old.

So Abraham actually did a big birthday party for Isaac when he was three years old because [size=14pt]"...Abraham then prepared a BIG FEAST on the day of Isaac’s being weaned." (this can be translated "...Abraham then prepared a BIG FEAST on the DAY Isaac being three years old)"[/size]

Even while considering other event in the Bible like the case of Han'nah, Han'nah might have also threw a very big feast when Samuel was weaned, though we can't read into the scriptures what isn't there like JWs had read into the scriptures on what Bible didn't give any detail about.

1. I do not see them lying , you have not shown me any lies. All you have done and has always been doing is to take parts of their statement,(sometimes adjusting it)then state ur own personal understanding of it. If you where in search of the truth, you would have asked the organization about What they really meant or are trying to say. But you will not ask for clarification , why? Because you already have ur own view which you dnt want to change.
You say they lie based on ur own understanding which is cloudy , opinionated and lacks humility.

^^^^ u where expecting me to reply on everything he wrote right? Wrooong!! I wunt tell him what he already knows. His post shows he knows where and how to search for the truth. Na only humility and humble assessment remain, and I'm not equipped for that.

Emusan:
Yes! Especially the lies of watchtower



Why will you find any?

Only a close-minded person will look at watchtower teaching and says nothing was wrong.

*On different five occasions they couldn't identify who Angel Michael is----yet to you no incoherent
*For more than FORTY YEARS they taught the worshiping of Jesus Christ until they realized that such act is idolatry (what will happen to people who died with the believe of worshiping Christ?)----yet to you no incoherent.
*For more than TWENTY YEARS they are HERALD OF CHRIST but today they were no more Herald of Christ but Jehovah witness even though Bible testimony was that Jehovah Himself witnesses about His Son---Yet to you no incoherent
*They published a booklet title "Should you believe in Trinity?" and blindly distributed ONLY TO LATER DISCOVERED that the booklet was full of lies about what they wrote on EARLY fathers and the booklet was QUICKLY removed FROM THEIR ONLINE LIBRARY---yet to you no incoherent.
*They always preach against SPIRIT-ISM and at the same time use the source of those who involve in SPIRITISM as their support---yet to you no incoherent.
*JWs discredited Justin Martyr in AWAKE 1976 Nov 22 p.27 by saying Justin was not INSPIRED BY GOD as the Bible writers were simply because Justin plainly wrote that Jesus died on the CROSS but they can cite the work of Christianity TRASHIER like John Rylands, E. Washburn Hopkins, Siegfried Morenz, Will Durant, Arthur Weigall who DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE talk less of Jesus Christ to support their claim IN THE SAME BOOKLET "Should you believe in the trinity"? And the funny part of it is that Justin Martyr was also wrongly quoted as a support in the same booklet. confuse people....
*I opened a thread about the comment of JWs on 1 Tim 6:16 you people pretended as if nothing happen simply because none of you could counter it

*The shocking one is when JWs say Jesus is not a MEDIATOR FOR MANKIND BUT ONLY FOR THE 144,000 holy one in heaven, and many more.....



Check what you said earlier to what I posted you know that your statement here is nonsensical.



With what I posted above, why would I take them serious?
Russell claimed to be mouth piece and directed by the Spirit of God likewise do Rutherford claimed the same ONLY another mouth piece and spirit filled present to arise and said what those mouth piece and spirit filled taught were IDOLATRY, who should will believe?

The funny part of it is that JWs can see the log wood in someone eyes but they couldn't see their own.

They made this statement about Catholic in 1970 "Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. "Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe 'new things.' [size=14pt]How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years?"[/size] Awake! 1970 Apr 22 p.8

With this question How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years? everyone reading that statement can understand where they're heading to, whereas they couldn't ask themselves THE SAME QUESTION.

I think the question any open-minded JWs who truly wants to know the truth about the TRUE GOD should ask his/herself is, why is the light getting brighter and why must it be?

Though some JWs actually know the reason why the light is getting brighter but they decided to continue to live with the lies.

Good to know you read there publications fervently. One day you might see the truth therein.

You say I seem to have a view contrary to the organization, now you are implying I'm close -minded. Whichever the case, I'm not going to go into ur well planned twisting.do you notice here again, you docan not see their numerous good works !!?

I do not think you associate with any religous organization and if you do , I dnt think you will mention it. If you feel u have issues with the watchtower, their contacts is well known and written on their publications which you read regularly. Pls get in touch with them. As for me, I can only answer questions relating to what I believe in, what I know and what I have info on, using the scriptures as a guide.

Back to the thread, birthdays is a pagan celebration, was celebrated by pagans who worshiped false Gods and no servant of God was recorded as partaking or adopting such practices .

Facts revealed so far from these thread.

Enoch:
1. The scriptures never said in any verse that enoch went/ ascended to heaven during his time.

2. That he did not experience death does not mean he did not die.

3. to butress 1 above , the scriptures said he ,enoch(along with others ) saw the promise afar off but have not received it yet and their condition is just like Davids condition as at the time the NT was written.

4. To butress 2 above, the scriptures said all faithfull servants of God ( though it did not mention all, but it did mention enoch by name )died!

5. Jesus stated in clear simple understandable words that "no man has ascended into heaven" . Derived analogy on the words "ascended" or who he was talking to will only lead to false teaching for it was Christ that opened the way to heaven for humans.

Elijah
1. The bible at different times used the word heaven to describe different geographical and non geographical locations . the context in which the words was used helps in understanding the word.

2. Elijah did not ascend/go up/ went to the heaven where jehovah and other spirit creatures reside.

3. To butress 2 above , the scriptures recorded that elijah practiced his prophetic duty on earth months or years after the events of the chariots.

4. Points 4 and 5 under enoch supports that of elijah too.

5 . Suggesting that man can ascend to heaven calls into question the ransom sacrifice of jesus and the title/position of savior which he holds. The only way to God is through jesus.

Questions : if anyone has ascended to heaven prior to jesus coming to earth is taken as truth. Then there is a level of reward that goes with faithfulness and performance and time for such reward is not uniform . For example elijah who lived after abraham went to heaven while abraham went to the good side of hell(according to some people o!)is this process so?

David died before elijah, what did the scriptures say David(who's line jesus came) is , and where did the scriptures say he is?

If scriptural quotes are needed , please tell me, ill gladly provide them .

paulGrundy:
My quotes are in line with the subject of the thread, which is about jehovahs witness. Hence there is no derailments or insults made to anyone.

This is social forum not a e-court, this is a place to contribute intelligent posts to threads, a place to learn and exchange ideas. Don't take any critique of the watchtower as an attack on your religion. Open your mind so that you can see all facets of the truth.

Don't take any post personal.

Sorry, kpele.

1. The thread is not about jehovahs witneses. The thread is about what a persons experiences when visiting or attending a gathering of witnesses, these you have detailed.

2.this social forum is not just for contribution of intelligent post, but an avenue to make ones beliefs and views known, corrected, explained, and have questions answered . On the religious section, our beliefs is more discussed than our opinion.
Our beliefs is part of who the creator of such moniker really is and says a lot about the person behind that moniker. If your statements contradict ur beliefs or views, then you are an hypocrite with no standard or principle and in religion , once a person is found to have a questionable character, all his words will be scrutinized and that is what is happening to you and ur posts(a reflection of the real person).

3. I see it as an attack on the watchtower when at every opportunity of showing their good works, behavior and spiritual progress, you don't make statements to support such good things but will always try to portray then in bad light using false statements.

4. I can not take ur post personal, you have not attacked me yet.
You have attacked the organization, and what is the result? They keep on growing with Spiritually minded and humble ones day by day. They answer ur numerous questions while you refuse to humbly answer questions posed to you, expecially on these thread .

5. Hope ur "sorry" and "kpele" are not sarcastic statements like the ones u aknowledged earlier. Sarcasm is not a good Christian traite to develop or continue developing.

6. Why have you not answered the questions posed to you on who you really are.

7.I believe I've allowed you to make me derail this thread long enough. Any futher discussion will be based on the threads main topic. If you want to discuss about ur character and person, reply bernimore in wateva format u wish.

true2god:
You dont need to create and unfortunate circumstances in order to establish a doctrine or organization creed based on that situation. Yes it was recorded in the bible, twice, that a pagan celebrated birthday and did evil. Does the bible explicitly condemn\condone birthday celebration based on that? No.

Almost on a daily basis people die of road accident, does that mean that using vehicles is evil? No. Rather a law is in place to check over-speeding and drunk-driving. There is always a coveat in whatever someone does, and carelessness could be dangerous.

JW permit taking alcohol, rather responsibly, but deeperlife completly condemn taking alcohol irrespective of the quantity. Should deeperlife member condemn JW for that? No.

Remember that Lot got drunk before his children commited incesst with him, Noah also got drunk before his son mocked him for his unclothedness. So using this two cases, a deeperlife member has a moral and biblical right to also judge and condemn a JW member who takes alcohol.

As someone had said earlier, millions of birthdays might have been celerated (even among the jews) during the old days of the biblical period without any incident. So your using isolated cases to form a religios creed is wrong.

I was not trying to create an unfortunate circumstance .
I believe you read my post and must have agreed with the fact the events recorded by the scriptures on birthday and birthday celebrations are similar in terms of who celebrated it, the religion of who celebrated it and what happened at such celebration.
The scriptures did not infer on us that birthday was being celebrated by pagan idol worshipers once but twice to emphasis the background behind such practise and who is behind such Practise.

The events are not isolated, the events are strikingly similar in numerous was I'll state here again
1. They both celebrated birthdays
2. The are both exalted at such occasion
3. They are both kings
4. There kingship oppresses jehovahs people.
5. The are both pagans
6. They both worship false gods.
7. The both commit acts that jehovah hates during the celebrations.
8. Astrology was an important aspect of their religious beliefs.

The facts we get from the scriptures detailed account is not my own making. So pls why dnt you try to find out why the scriptures gave such details on those events, the similarity in detail despite such events being several thousand years apart.
Dnt you think that despite the bible talking in details about birthdays , it never mentioned or make reference to such celebration being performed by numerous (very many)loyal servants of jehovah whose lifestyle was giving in some level of detail? Not even one of them is associated with such celebration.
Do you not consider the fact that despite the numerous mentions (directly and indirectly) to calender dates in the scriptures ,of certain events and celebrations with dates included, no bible writer mentioned the date of birth of himself or other loyal servants of jehovah he wrote about?why is that.

Dnt use secular behavior or circumstance to argue on if birthdays should be observed or not .
Cars are not created for religious purposes, neither is alcohol, have you investigated how and why the celebration of birthdays was established?
Have you investigated how and why the statement "happy birthday" was established?
Have you investigated how and why candles are being fixed and lighted on a cake at birthdays?
Have you investigated the wild, brazen, sinful acts that are usually associated with birthday celebrations. ?

What do you think paul was refering to in the verses of galatians I posted earlier.?

Look at these again , the scriptures said the day of ones death is better than the day of birth, how well do people you invite for birthdays celebrate you after death. do they mark the anniversary of ur death with equal vigour and expectations?

By the way, what calender do u use to celebrate ur birthday, the one that was used when the scriptures where written or the ones used now? Cus as far as I know, those calenders are different.

To your question: the bible does not directly condone or condemn birthday celebration . But it did tell us that the celebration has pagan origin and made no mention of any servants of God doing such. This are facts and not propabilities.

It is now left for you and any religious body you associate with to see birthdays as a pagan celebration with spiritistic, astrological and magical undertones which no recorded association by servants of jehovah. Practicing such pagan celebrations under any guise or method is accepting that those pagan Gods are right. Remember. What happened to the isrealites when they made a calf serve as God after crossing the red sea.

paulGrundy:
Stop quoting trolls, they are intent on derailing threads. They don't have anything meaningful to contribute to conversations. Your report button is not there for decoration use it.

Oh my! , wow! Wow! Wow!. So you now feel that their is an intent to derail the thread!?!!.

Have you forgoten the title for the thread and what the op was talking about before you decided to derail it?

The thread was not criticizing the organization, and how it arranges its gatherings and how warm and inviting such gatherings are.
The thread even emphasized on how such gatherings are not turned into a money making event for the organization. These good things ur cloudy eyes cannot see as you are desperate to criticize the good things said about the meetings the organization organized.

You invited bernimore, weda sacasticaly, humbly or by any other mistake you could come up with, the fact is that you invited him. He is now here and has made accusations against you that calls into question the verry reason of ur existence both in nairaland and in the real world.
If I'm being accused of something in such manner and level as bernimore has done, I will do everything within the powers confered on my moniker by nairaland to clear my name.
But if there is nothing to clear and my character, nature, lifestyle, behavior, conscience, goal , is the same as that portrayed in the accusation, then ill probably reply the same way you do.

Is that you on ur profile, is that little innocent child you put there yours?

I can only contribute if I know the op's and others view on the meaning of the word "poor", "rich","prosperity" and "wealth"

Cus I know that if I have 20million naira only (used to laugh when I see the word "only" added to such large amount of money, abegi!) in my account, ill consider myself rich. But I dnt think bill gates or dangote will have that same view as mine if there bank account figures drops Down to that level o!

Everything that is in the Bible is there for a reason.- 2 Tim.
3:16, 17

(All scripture is given by
inspiration of God, and is
profitable for doctrine, for
reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be
perfect, throughly furnished
unto all good works.)

With that in mind , let us look at the bible again .

Birthdays where said to be celebrated during bible times and the bible mentioned directly and in detail 2 birthday celebrations.
What do we learn from these celebrations as recorded by the bible . We learn a few things

On the account recorded in genesis 40: 20-23 the following fact come out:
1. The pagan god-king Pharaoh was exalted in this celebration.
2. The event culminated in the death of the baker.
3. The servant of the true God remained in prison and did not partake in the celebration.

These celebrations was performed by pagans who do not serve God. They celebrated the event in such ways that displease God, therefore no true servant of God attended such celebrations why ?
Is it not probably because it is a pagan celebration and the process of observing such event have pagan origins?

Let's compare this facts with the second account of birthday celebrations thousands of years later and let's see the similarities.

The account of mark 16 :17-28
Gives us the following facts :

1 .like the event in genesis the bible is also repeatedly telling us again , several thousand years later that birthday was being celebrated by a pagan and by an adulterous king, of Idumean descent, (edomite) who worships false gods and also that this one was exalted in this celebration.
2. again like the event in genesis,this event culminated
in the death of John the Baptist.
3.once again like in genesis, No servants of the
true God did partake in such celebrations.

Does the similarities of the two events recorded thousands of years apart not tell you something?
Does it not show you that God is telling you how he feels about birthdays?

These recordings or accounts of birthdays recorded in the bible supports historical views that birthdays where being celebrated by pagan kings in time past .(we shall look at its origin later)

The bible did not just leave us with the events but also told us what God told his people about such pagan practices.
What did God tell the isrealites about these pagan practises ? The answer to that is in leviticus 18: 3-4.

(After the doings of the land of
Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall
ye not do: and after the doings
of the land of Canaan, whither
I bring you, shall ye not do:
neither shall ye walk in their
ordinances.
Ye shall do my judgments, and
keep mine ordinances, to walk
therein: I am the LORD your
God.)

From these verses we learn that jehovah warned the isrealites not to practise the things(doings) the Egyptians practiced and ill leave it to you to determine if such practices include the pagan celebration called birthday .
These verses also told the isrealite not to follow the doings(ways/practices) of the land of canaan in which king herod practiced. I'll leave you again to decide if the canaan land practice include the birthday celebrated by false God worshiping king called herod.

Pls note Gods directives , "do not do" and "do not walk"
These implies that, do not do what they do under any form or disguise or adjustments(Satan always uses these methods) and do not walk in their ways and practices such as birthdays which is deep in spiritism, astrology, magic and other practices that God hates.

Verse 4 states :
Ye shall do my judgments, and
keep mine ordinances, to walk
therein: I am the LORD your
God.

In relating to these verse, the questions you should ask yourself as a bible student are:
Does Gods ordinances to the isrealites include celebrations?
If Gods ordinances include celebrations, is bithday celebration included in it?
If its not, why is the celebration of birthdays not included in it?
Does this not show me that God is displeased/does not want his people to practice a celebration that came from pagan origin?
Does this not show me that birthday is not a divine directed event. ?

Why does the bible not include the birthday or birthday celebration of just one of the numerous loyal servants of jehovah like moses, Joshua, David, loyal judges, loyal isrealite kings,nehemiah, Daniel, jesus, the disciples or any other early Christian.?
Does these not show me that they did not do such things and preffered to obey jehovah?

Does observing/marking/celebrating birthdays not show that I'm observing and marking time, days, years and events.?

What does the scriptures say about how God feels on such observations ? Galatians
4:9-11 tells us the answer.

To be continued .......

Emusan:
I guess you're one of those who have discovered incoherent teaching of your organization but afraid of leaving the organization due to dis-fellowship from friends and families.

Because I notice some of your claim are against what your organization teaches sometimes, your organization teaching is contrary to what you said above

This is the second baptismal question of your organization:
"Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?" Watchtower 1985 Jun 1 p.30

I guess you are one of those who see everything in black and white.

I've not discovered any incoherent teaching.
The organizations beliefs and practise of its members have helped me, in fact , it has saved me literarily!.

Ur notice is totally wrong !
I've not said anything that goes contrary to the views of the organization.
If you really know me, ull realize that I'm not trying to serve jehovah cus of friends and family, they are secondary to the reason why I'm serving jehovah.

Due to humans sinful nature, he can turn from being a witness of jehovah but still maintaining his membership of the organization if he hides his sinful actions and it is not made known to the congregation .
If you want to be a witness of jehovah, you must obey all of jehovahs directives and not some.
Jehovah knows his witnesses by there heart condition first, not by membership of an organization
If you are found to be a sinner in the congregation, then the process of dealing with such person as directed in the scriptures is activated.

You see there post and publications from a wrong perspective cus you are constantly and desperately searching for "something wrong" with what they teach. This premeditated search of yours does not allow you to see the good things they teach you in their publications, which should be the main determinant.

Blackfire:
1.that i am sure, that one is 100%.
2.who do i tell? Him? U? Or his hypocritical life?.
3.i hate that word friend, he is not my friend,just a neighbour who know nothing about life
4. Can a JW die as a sinner?

Tell him , tell him again, then tell his fellow brothers. Do as the scriptures say u should do when u notice a Christian going astray .

Being a witness of jehovah is not by being a member of the organization.

Blackfire:
I know a JW boy who wouldnt attend birthday a of year old boy, whose father is his neighbour, but carry girls every night on his alter(bed), which is sinful?.
Call my bluff and i will send his location.

If you re sure that he is commiting fornication, which is a sin. Pls do tell, unless u want ur friend to die a sinner! .

Esdb3:
Uhm did you even read the post? Read the second paragraph for your sake.

And duhh it is the day I clock a new age

I understand you verry well. You want to adjust a celebration in which the ideas, logic, process behind it was created by Satan for pagan worshipers. So that it will look as if you are doing it for God. God does not require you celebrating birthdays for him , what he requires you to do is stated in the bible.

Two birthday celebrations are mentioned in the bible, the bible let's us know the religion of those people, the bible let us know what happened at the celebrations .
The bible now tells us that everything , yes everything written in the bible is written for a reason.

The problem that some had with the op is that they are trying to cover one low with another or several others, the op (though not understanding the first lie) knows that it is a lie that only futher lies will help cover up.

The first lie is that man is a spirit being housed in a body. This lie can only be supported by other lies which will require the bible being turned up side down .

These first lie was created to accomodate another first lie in another section that requires man to be consious at death so that the belief in hell fire can be accomodated.

The bible does not support this lies, and there is no direct statement in the bible to support these lies. With no direct support, a misunderstanding/ mis explaining of the scriptures had to be adopted.

Do we have individual spirits?
No, the bible even says the spirit in animals(another living soul) is the same as that of man.

Are we spirits in flesh?
No, the bible says man is flesh.
God called man "flesh"
In the creation of adam , adam was said exist before the breathe of life came to be blown into his nostrils.