₦airaland Forum

tartar9:
lmao is this how you xtians will console yourself over the shamless and miserable death of a supposed 'saviour'

moneyallowed:
I agree, it woulda been cool to see. Poor Caleb

Ranchhoddas:
does God know the eventual outcome of my freewill?

Lukay99:
What you failed to understand is that when we say Islam is the fastest growing religion we are not talking about all your above points all your points are what I will attribute to the middle east or any muslims dominated region but the real growth of Islam is not the middle east but it's in the Western world(western Europe or north America) all your above points are baseless in the western world

Ranchhoddas:
so there is no freewill afterall?

Ranchhoddas:
does God know the exact option a person will take?Yes or no.Stop the hide and seek.

Ranchhoddas:
So God does not know the action a person would or would not take?

cao:
Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation.

Humblebloke:
Sir..... I'm very open minded..... I've studied the bible and it is just another two faced book..... Preaching love and promoting hate like the quran........

To comprehend the Jesus is God theory.... You need the holyspirit



These story books make God look like some confusionist


The bible and the quran clearly preaches same bullshit..... The only difference is their route to paradise theory

Temihatz:
Well according to Wikipedia, Fitna (or fitnah, pl. fitan; Arabic: فتنة , فتن‎: "temptation, trial; sedition, civil strife"[1]) is an Arabic word with extensive connotations of trial, affliction, or distress.

According to my Qur'an;
8:39 Fight them until there be no persecution and religion be wholly Allah's. So if they now desist, then Allah is the Beholder of what they are doing.

To me that is clear enough (based on what Op explained earlier)

Well done @Op

Temihatz:
Well according to Wikipedia, Fitna (or fitnah, pl. fitan; Arabic: فتنة , فتن‎: "temptation, trial; sedition, civil strife"[1]) is an Arabic word with extensive connotations of trial, affliction, or distress.

According to my Qur'an;
8:39 Fight them until there be no persecution and religion be wholly Allah's. So if they now desist, then Allah is the Beholder of what they are doing.

To me that is clear enough (based on what Op explained earlier)

Well done @Op

AllNaijaBlogger:
When the big bang was proposed by a christian ( a catholic priest), his idea was ridiculed.

Many years into the future, it became one of the most interesting scientific theories.



Open your mind.....think beyond the horizon

AllNaijaBlogger:
You must understand that we are talking hypothetically about the distant future where robots have full AI functionality. They can feel, touch, smell, see, breathe and taste.

What then?


You must also understand that there is already a shortcut to all this- merging human clones with robotics to make androids.



As a christian, I am entitled to ask this question. God gave us brains to use to gather knowledge. I do not believe in closing my eyes toward the future. I'd like to be prepared.

JustPeace01:
[b]Historical Background

Now let us consider the historical background of the Surah. The series of events that have been discussed in this Surah took place after the Peace Treaty of Hudaibiyah. By that time, one-third of Arabia had come under the sway of Islam which had established itself as a powerful, well organized and civilized Islamic State. This Treaty afforded further opportunities to Islam to spread its influence in the comparatively peaceful atmosphere created by it. After this Treaty, two events took place, which led to very important results:
Conquest of Arabia

The first was the Conquest of Arabia. The Holy Prophet was able to send missions among different clans for the propagation of Islam. The result was that during the short period of two years, it became such a great power that it made the old order of ignorance' feel helpless before it. So much so that the zealous elements from among the Quraish were so exasperated that they broke the Treaty in order to encounter Islam in a decisive combat. But the Holy Prophet took prompt action after the breach so as not to allow them any opportunity to gather enough force for this. He made a sudden invasion on Makkah in the month of Ramadan in A. H. 8 and conquered it. Though this conquest broke the backbone of the order of ignorance, it made still another attack on Islam in the battle-field of Hunain, which proved to be its death-knell. The clans of Hawazin Thaqif, Naur, Jushm and others gathered their entire forces in the battle field in order to crush the reformative Revolution, but they utterly failed in their evil designs. The defeat of 'ignorance' at Hunain paved the way for making the whole of Arabia the 'Abode of Islam' (Dar-ul-Islam). The result was that hardly a year had Passed after the Battle of Hunain, when the major portion of Arabia came within the fold of Islam and only a few upholders of the old order remained scattered over some corners of the country.
The second event that contributed towards making Islam a formidable power was the Campaign of Tabuk, which was necessitated by the provocative activities of the Christians living within or near the boundaries of the Roman Empire to the north of Arabia. Accordingly, the Holy Prophet, with an army of thirty thousand marched boldly towards the Roman Empire but the Romans evaded the encounter. The result was that the power of the Holy Prophet and Islam increased manifold and deputations from all corners of Arabia began to wait upon him on his return from Tabuk in order to offer their allegiance to Islam and obedience to him. The Holy Quran has described this triumph in Surah An-Nasr: "When the succor of Allah came and victory was attained and you saw people entering the fold of Islam in large numbers...
[/b]

JustPeace01:
Hmmmm.

Now No 4 is the continuation of No 3.

The translation you presented says 'until there is more ' fitna (disorder, unbelief) this means when non believers stop persecution stop fighting with them.

While someone else translated it as

And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do

JustPeace01:
8.12 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you:
give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers:
smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle of Badr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and fellow Muslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300 strong. God Almighty gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their lives and faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.

And when you fight, you strive to kill the enemy during the fight.
However, even during the war, Islam has the highest moral law of war. You don't kill children, women or any one who is not fighting with you.

JustPeace01:
Non-muslims

Well, I've done my part. May Allah reward us on our good deeds and forgive us of our transgressions. #Ameen

waldigit:
Dear beloved, please pray first to Holy Spirit for opening of eyes of understanding and then read the following bible passages.
Mathew 27:51-53, Ephesians 4:8-9, 1Corinthians 15:55, Psalm 16:10, Luke 16:20-25
You see before christ many soul of the dead were temporarily preserved in heaven e.g elijah, enok,moses. Also in grave e.g elisha and hell e.g rich man in Luke 16. Depending on their righteousness, and relationship with God
However, at the death of christ, he visited all these temporary places and introduced himself to these dead souls of holy people and move them to mansions prepared for them in heaven as you can see in mathew 27. In death you automatically accept lordship of Jesus because you operate at higher intelligence realm, so no need of preaching. Mind you He left behind bad souls of men in Hell. After the resurrection of Christ righteous pple goes straight to new temporary preservation place in heaven(mansions) and wait until judgement day. Also unrighteous pple goes straight to hell in the earth of the earth. After rapture the dead in Christ will still be held in grave. Revealation 20:13
I hope I have been able to help

gabazin080:
NB: am a christian bt i wnt to knw wat wil happen that were born before christ came. because i leant those that that died and didnt believe christ will rot in hell. so wat will nw happen to those that were born before the birth of christ and didnt have a chance to know christ

Ranchhoddas:
but what God knows must happen right?

JustPeace01:
[b]Quran 47:4
If read with good translation and historical context in mind, no significant complaint can be found about 47:4. However, some non-muslims insist on using a very poor translation of Quran with additions. One such translation reads:

Qur’an 47:4 So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle, smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by God to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam .

However, almost all of the major translations are contrary to the above translation. Yusuf Ali’s translation reads:

Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost. (Yusuf Ali Translation, Quran 47:4)

Further translations can be checked out here. Nowhere does the accurate translations make any mention of 1)”killing and wounding” 2) “Thus are you commanded by God to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam”, those are additions of the translator’s and are not to be found in Quran.

According to Professor Shahul Hameed (http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=8922), historical context of this verse is Battle of Badr. He writes:

“The context of this verse was when the Muslims were to fight their enemies for their very existence. After thirteen years of endurance and patience, the prophet and his companions had to leave their home town of Makkah and to emigrate to Madinah. When the people of Madinah had welcomed him there and he was accepted as a leader there, the Makkans became unhappy. They wanted to eliminate Muhammad and his religion; and so they sent their army to root out Islam. And the crucial battle took place in Badr.”

Once again, the context is of war here and therefore killing of innocent people is not prescribed. Naturally, in war people would be expected to fight and kill, therefore “smite at their necks” is only natural.

Quran 33:23
Another poor translation of this verse commonly seen reads:
Qur’an 33:23 Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with God and have gone out for Jihad (holy fighting ). Some have completed their vow to extreme and have been martyred fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle.

More accurate and common translation reads:
Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah: of them some have completed their vow (to the extreme), and some (still) wait: but they have never changed (their determination) in the least: (YUSUF ALI Translation, Quran 33.23)

Critics have included “fighting and dying”, “prepared for death in battle” and their own interpretation to the verse. Ibn Kathir writes:

“When Allah mentions how the hypocrites broke their promise to Him that they would not turn their backs, He describes the believers as firmly adhering to their covenant and their promise:
([they] have been true to their covenant with Allah; of them some have fulfilled their Nahbah Some of [the Qur’anic commentators] said: “Met their appointed time (i.e., death).” Al-Bukhari said, “Their covenant, and refers back to the beginning of the Ayah.
(and some of them are still waiting, but they have never changed in the least.) means, they have never changed or broken their covenant with Allah. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir)[/b]

JustPeace01:
[b]Quran 2:191
Islam-critics usually apply “cut and choose” approach with regards to this verse. They only quote: “And slay them wherever ye catch them…” (2:191). However, let us be brave enough to read the whole passage in context from 2:190-195:

Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves. And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good. (YUSUF ALI, Quran 2:190-195)

The verse clearly states to fight those who fight you, yet do not transgress limits. In so sense therefore does it promote killing of innocent but allows self-defence. It further goes on to state “And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice” and “if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression”. Hence, once again when the whole context is examined the verses does not promote killing of innocent in anyway.

Abdul Majid Daryabadi (Finlay, Greece Under the Romans, pp. 367-368) writes on verse 2:190:
“…Violating the truce they themselves had signed. The Muslims, after having borne untold persecution with almost superhuman fortitude for years and years at the hands of the pagans of Makkah, are now for the first time enjoined to take to reprisals. ‘For a full thirteen years the Muslims were subjected to relentless persecution in Mecca. The Prophet and his followers fled for life to Medina, but the enemy would not leave them alone in their refuge. They came to attack them within a year, and the first three battles were fought in the very locality which will whether the Prophet was an assailant or defendant’ (Headley, The Original Church of Jesus Christ and Islam, p. 155). The Makkans had signed a truce and were the first to break it…”

Once again when the whole context is examined the verses does not promote killing of innocents, whether muslims or non-muslims in anyway, but only self-defence.[/b]

JustPeace01:
[b]It is amazing to see how many non-Muslims would blindly post the verses from Quran, without even reading from ‘appropriate’ and well-know translations. Needless to say they hardly ever know the context. In this article we will be examining commonly quoted verses on the topic of violence and refuting them. This article is divided in 2 parts:
1) Refuting commonly quoted verses on the topic of violence
2) Providing accurate picture of Islam

1)Refuting commonly quoted verses on the topic of violence

Quran 9:5
Islam-critics only post 9:5:
“Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (PICKTHAL Translation, Quran 9:5)

Let’s read the verse in context 9:1-9:5:
Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty. Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance). And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve, Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him). Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (PICKTHAL Translation, Quran 9:1-5)

This verses is always quoted out of context, they never post 9:6 or from 9:1 to 9:6. If we read from start it states that there was a treaty, which the Pagans of Arab broke. Thus Allah gave them 4 months as 9:2 states in order to amend the treaty. Verse 9:4 states that the punishment prescribed in 9:5 is ONLY to those who broke the treaty and NOT to those who abided by the treaty. Therefore the context of 9:5 is of war with the pagan Arabs who broke the treaty yet refused to amend it in 4 months.

Naturally, in war violence is expected. If a war is declared between Country A and Country B, because country B broke the treaty and refused to amend, then if president of country A states “wherever you find soldiers of Country B, you kill them and besiege them”, no one would truly find much wrong in that statement.

Killing in war is nothing peculiar, and there is yet to be a war where soldiers hugged and kissed each other. In additions, Dr. Zakir Naik writes in his book “Replies to the most common questions asked by non-muslims“:

“4. Verse 9:5 quoted to boost morale of Muslims during battle
Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Qur’an says, “Kill the Mushriqs [pagans] where ever you find them”, during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them.”

Islam-critics remain shy of posting the next verse, 9:6, as it contains the answer to their deception:

“And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. (PICKTHAL Translation, Quran 9:6)

Quran does not only say that you release those who seek protection but it goes even further and states to protect them! [/b]

Source: https://norasensation./2008/10/16/misquoted-violent-verses-in-the-holy-quran/

cc: lalasticlala ishilove

abduljabbar4:
2. There is no country where a person could get convicted for converting to another religion. Thats a human right violation. I know that there are some muslims that kill those who convert but guess what they will be punished on the day of judgement. But such kinds of cases also occur in christianity as well.

3. I have told you that those terrorists only consider theselves as muslims but we here dont. Even those that made the statistics didnt include them (i guess) cos they are captives of the terrorists

abduljabbar4:
I disagree with 2 and 3.
Even in the Holy Qur'an it was stated that there is no compulsion in religion. Though i have not seen many people converting to christianity but the little i have seen are still around. One of them has a shop and till today he is still living peacefully and guess what i live in Kaduna.

What isis is doing shouldnt be associated with Islam because even though you people misinterpret the Qur'an verses, lets assume you are right.
According to those verses, have you ever seen it was stated that a muslims should kill his fellow Muslim? But what do they do exactly? Most of bokoharam operations affect the muslims. They bomb mosques and villages dominated by christians. So if the Qur'an tells us to harm non-muslims(as you believe) why are they harming muslims? It means they arent following the instructions of the Holy Qur'an either. Besides it is forbidden to kill even insects with fire talkless of human beings

abduljabbar4:
Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. All the lies you fabricate about it arent yeilding any results as more and more Christians are realising the real truth about Islam not the lies you spread

Jagoon:
Very true, Classic! The extreme end of islamic hypocrisy.