₦airaland Forum

KellamLeTorneau:
Then your ancestors are the most shameless pigs ever. After all they did hunt and sell their people to the white men as slaves did they not? And you in your infinite stupidity brought up the issue of KSA and Yemen, please tell me who the Saudis are bombing. Pig!

Haha! History is full of shameless people, good people and people who were lukeworm. Not all accepted, agreed or took part in the slave trade. Moreover and more importantly, they did not do their shameless acts for religious reasons.

There were white slaves made slaves by fellow white people. Arab slaves who where made slaves by fellow Arabs over flimsy excuse like a man feeling that he is not giving enough respect .


But I'm more concerned about the present system, the one I live in . The one I'm not sure if entering a bus with a woman in hijab will be the last thing ill do. The one I'm not sure if an argument between two adherents of the same religion but belonging to different sects will not bring out ak47 to settle their differences.

The middle east and its major religion has always been the devils violence testing workshop. it is a pity the U.S got involved in it , they should have left them to there killing spree, but their greed wunt allow them stay out of a religious war that had existed even before the founding of the U.S state.

SA is bombing yemen innocent civilians . Why ? Cus they belong to a different sect .

Una no dey shame, infidels dash una weapons, instead of rejecting it, una begin use am kill una selves .I bet that even if no gun is given, una go use local knifes, sword, stones massacre each other.

If U.S attack on Iraq bad, wetin we go talk for Saudi Arabia bombing of yemen.

starlingslimnet:
I have bro

You have not, add scriptural quotes to back up each of ur points

starlingslimnet:
Understanding the Scripture is paramount. Instead of listening to confuse preachers why not listen to the scripture itself? Now here is the Truth:

God is three person in one and he made man like that -The Soul,Spirit and Body.

Now man is made to be immortal and the immortality lies in the Spirit but this immortality we lost to sin.

Now when a man die the spirit of the man return to his Creator and the body to dust while the soul is seperated remains the man's body

Now Christ died on the cross. The Soul is seperated from the body and his Spirit lives to fight the principalities he came to fight because he is the designated Son of GOD.

You might want to ask then how did he die Since his Spirit lives? But rightly well you ask a wrong question For this is what the Scripture says "For as the body without the spirit is dead,so faith without works is dead" James 2:26.We see then the spirit is independent of the body while the body is dependent on the spirit to live.So we say Christ died on the Cross and that is why the scripture says "God raised his body" because the body was dead without the spirit.And to say Christ is designated Son Of God in Power his spirit is the Spirit of God himself.

Christ came to condemn sin in the flesh thus the requirement of his bodily death.Believing the gospel Of the Son of God is life just as his body dies and was raised so shall everyone who believe in Christ be raised when God come physically to earth the third time

Pls add scriptural proof to each of ur points

@ eshbeewanna



(A)So for a fact now, there is no where I stated or posted these words: "cleansing is not the same meaning with treatment for leprosy in the bible". So people can now decide who is a liar!.


Ur refusal to provide a post I
used the same exact words in
my sentence will put the tag of
Liar on you


(B) oga, treatment does not have the same meaning as cure. Stop lying .

Treatment :
1.an act or manner of treating.

2.action or behavior toward a
person, animal, etc.

3.The act, manner, or method of handling or dealing with someone or something: The use of an agent, procedure, or regimen, such as a drug, surgery, or exercise, in an attempt to cure or mitigate a disease, condition, or injury.

4. (Medicine) the application of
medicines, surgery, psychotherapy, etc, to a patient or to a disease or symptom.


Cure:
1. relieve (a person or animal) of the symptoms of a disease or condition.

2.to make (someone) healthy
again after an illness

3. to stop (a disease) by using
drugs or other medical
treatments
4. to provide a solution for
(something)
a : to restore to health,
soundness, or normality
b : to bring about recovery
from <cure a disease>
a : to deal with in a way that
eliminates or retifies
b : to free from something
objectionable or harmful

You can see from the above that treatment is not the thing as cure. You can treat, receive treatment for a particular disease or condition and not get cure or cured . You can be cured of a disease without treating or undergoing treatment for the disease.
Treatment can be preventive or to mitigate, cure is to restore .


(c)I did not claim cleansing is the same meaning with
treatment. Pls stop twisting



(d) you asked the questions below

"Again in your statement below you said cleansing begins when the person must have been certified clean.Certified clean how?what is the essense of ceremonial cleansing again then?When the person as been certified clean.Is it free from the disease you meant?How did person get free from the
disease if the same you said
again that during the time of
moses there was no cure for
leprosy.
Can't you see how foolish you
are?
I want to ask you again what
is treatment(Cure-dictionary
meaning) and what is
cleansing? since cleansing is
not cure by your explanation.


I will answer you by stating again what the bible said about leprosy in leviticus chapter 13 and 14 . I hope my explanation answers ur question .


Leprosy is a disease designated in the bible by the Hebrew term tsa·raʹʽath and the Greek word leʹpra.
In the Scriptures “leprosy” is not restricted to the disease known by that name today, for it could affect not only humans but also clothing and houses. ( Le 14:55)
Todays leprosy, or Hansen’s
disease, which is only slightly
communicable, manifests itself in three basic varieties. One, the nodular type, results in a
thickening of one’s skin and the forming of lumps, first in the skin on the face and then on other parts of the body. It also produces degenerative effects in. mucous membranes of the victim’s nose and throat. This is known as black leprosy. Another type is anesthetic leprosy, sometimes called white leprosy.
It is not as severe as black
leprosy and basically affects the peripheral nerves. It may
manifest itself in skin that is
painful to the touch, though it can also result in numbness. The third type of leprosy, a mixed kind, combines the symptoms of both forms just described.
As leprosy progresses toward its advanced stage, the swellings that initially develop discharge pus, the hair may fall from one’s head and eyebrows, nails may loosen, decay, and fall off. Then the victim’s fingers, limbs, nose,
or eyes may be slowly eaten
away. Finally, in the most serious cases, death ensues.

That Biblical “leprosy” certainly included such a serious disease is apparent from Aaron’s reference to it as a malady wherein the flesh is “half eaten off.”— Nu 12:12.

This description helps one better to appreciate Biblical references to this dread malady.


Diagnosis. By means of the
Mosaic Law, Jehovah provided
Israel with information enabling the priest to diagnose leprosy and to distinguish between it and other less serious skin afflictions.
From what is recorded at
Leviticus 13:1-46, it can be seen that leprosy might begin with an eruption, a scab, a blotch, a boil, or a scar in one’s flesh from fire.

Sometimes the symptoms were very clear. The hair in the
affected area had turned white,
and the malady was seen to be
deeper than the skin. For
example, a white eruption in the skin might turn the hair white, and raw flesh might appear in the eruption. This meant that one had leprosy and was to be declared unclean. However, in other cases the malady was not
deeper than the skin and a
period of quarantine was
imposed, with subsequent
inspection by the priest, who
made a final determination in the case.
It was acknowledged that
leprosy could reach a stage in
which it was not contagious.
When it overspread the entire
body, all of it having turned
white, and living flesh was not in evidence, it was a sign that the diseased action was over and that only the marks of its ravages remained. The priest would then declare the victim clean, the disease posing no further danger to anyone.—Le 13:12-17.

If the leper’s malady left him and he was cured, there were
arrangements whereby he could ceremonially purify(cleansing) himself, and these included the offering of
sacrifice in his behalf by the
priest. (Le 14:1-32) But if the
priest declared the uncured leper unclean, the leper’s garments were to be torn, his head was to become ungroomed, he was to
cover the mustache or upper lip, and he was to call out “Unclean, unclean!” He had to dwell in isolation outside the camp ( Le 13:43-46), a measure that was taken so that the leper would not contaminate those in the midst of whom Jehovah was tenting. ( Nu
5:1-4)

Leprosy could also affect woolen or linen garments, or an article of skin. The plague might disappear with washing, and there were arrangements for quarantining the article. But
where this yellowish-green or
reddish plague persisted,
malignant leprosy was present
and the article was to be burned. ( Le 13:47-59) If yellowish-green or reddish depressions appeared in the wall of a house, the priest imposed a quarantine.
It might be necessary to tear out affected stones and have the house scraped off inside, the stones and scraped-off mortar being disposed of in an unclean place outside the city. If the plague returned, the house was declared unclean and was pulled down, and the materials were disposed of in an unclean place.
But for the house pronounced
clean there was an arrangement for purification. ( Le 14:33-57)

Leprosy required severe measures of control, including prolonged isolation with careful and repeated examination to determine when a cure had been effected. ( Le 13:1-46; De 24: It,
therefore, required a great deal
of faith for the unclean leper to
say to Jesus: “Lord, if you just
want to, you can make me
clean.” Jesus not only wanted to but he also showed he had the ability to cure this loathsome disease by commanding: “Be made clean.” Jesus then told this
restored man: “Go, show
yourself to the priest, and offer
the gift that Moses appointed.”
Mt 8:2-4; Mr 1:40-44; (you can see that jesus sent this man to the priest to perform the stipulated ceremonial cleasing only after he had been cured, and the ceremonial cleasing is not part of the cure jesus gave that man.)


From my explanation above and from your reading of leviticus chapter 13 and 14 we can deduce the following .

1. There is a process used to diagnose leprosy in the mosaic law.
2. Once the desease is being ascertained , the victim , object or house is being declared unclean and quarantined .
3 these process of quarantine is a form of treatment. These treatment is not to cure the victim , but process/method established to prevent the spread of the desease among the isrealites.
4. If someone is declared unclean due to the desease of leprosy , there is a process he must undertake to help others not to contact the desease.
5 in the case of human, he might overcome the desease through a. Finding a personal cure(not stated in the scriptures), b. He survives the full life course of the desease and the desease have either died or no longer operational on his body, c. His body is able to successfully fight off the desease, d. He gets cured miraculously.
6. If someone is cured (free of the desease) with any method
Mentioned in 5 above, he presents himself to the priest who checks him again . Once the priest sees that the desease has left him, the priest declares such person clean, and it is at that point that the person, object or thing begin the process of purification/ceremonial cleansing as recorded in leviticus 14 verse 1.

As also explained earlier, clean, unclean,cleansing are not always physical processes, and not always associated with deseases, it can be spiritual and ceremonial too . Cleansing in the case of leprosy is ceremonial .

I cut the rest of ur statement and questioning off cus it is based on falsehood . I did not agree at any end that ceremonial cleasing now heal or cure the leprosy. Lying against me is not good. I said ceremonial cleasing can only occur after the person or object has been cured or healed of the desease

I also never gave the impression or said that the bible gave a spiritual ceremony
of prevention of the disease.
The law stipulates that someone with the desease is quarantined . These is physical and not spiritual .I implore you to read up what quarantine means. Even though lepers have been spiritually healed in the bible, the bible did not state how it is done .

I also did not claim cleansing heal or cure the leper. the scriptures stipulated that cleansing can only occur after the person has been cured.

@ op, the answers are there in the scriptures .
Did the bible teach imortality of the soul or spirit or body?
What does the bible teach about soul?
What does the bible say we are, or say we are made of ?
What does the bible say will happen to us when we die ?
What does the bible say will happen in the future after our death?
What does God call man ?

[quote author=eshbeewanna post=34172499][/quote]Ill start with question 2, ill come back to 1 in my next post.

(2) you have not answered the question, you have still not provided us with where I made the statement . Pls provide the proof or the tag of hypocrite will be laid back on you .



(3). You have an opinion on my statements , but it does not mean ur opinion is true . So pls do not ascribe ur opinions as the meaning of what I said . So for a fact , I did not make the statement but it is ur own view or understanding . So next time you want to make ur view / understanding on someone else statement known, pls do not say or make it look like that person was the one who made the statement. The words " you said " should not be ascribed to ur view of another persons statements.

Like I said before ," believe" is different from "belief" .

I Believe that the mosaic law existed for a reason , I believe that the mosaic law was followed for a reason. I believe the Islamic law was created by moharmed and I believe some people follow it. But my belief is that I'm not obligated to follow the mosaic or Islamic law, why? Because the source of my Belief teaches me so.

That I believe something does not mean I should follow it .
That something is written in the scriptures does not mean I should do it . Words, experiences, laws where written in the bible for a reason, once you understand the reasons they where there, then you will be able to know how, why, when to apply it in ur lives.

I gave you several examples of laws you and I believe exist , eg the nigerian law before 1999, but we as nigerians are not obligated to follow .
Ghana has series of laws, I believe they exist, but I'm not obligated to follow it.

Your insistence that I should follow the Mosaic law prompted me to ask you these : do you follow the mosaic law word for word or something similar.
If you as a person have reasons for not following the law u say allah gave to moses, but follow the one allah gave to mohamed, why do you find it hard to accept and ask for the reasons others have for not following the mosaic law. If na by force to follow the mosaIc law, then why are you not following it.

(4) in ur world , you believe that not going against a law means you follow it . This is wrong thinking. There are part of the Islamic law that I dnt go against, but this does not mean I follow that part of the law. If you where honest the question you should have asked is "why don't christians go against this or that particular law ?" .

I have been asking you since , If you feel christians follow the ten commandments, pls tell us which of the laws they follow and I will show you ur folly . Just state the law and ill explain to you what you dnt understand about christianity. Ill be waiting o!

(5 -9) you have not answered questions 5 to 9 . If you have answered any of the above questions , just direct us to the post where the questions where answered .

(10) I asked you direct questions , you refused to answer me based on ur view of morality .

If I accuse you of being an orphan, does accusing me of being an orphan negate/falsify the fact that you are an orphan ? If it does not, how do you now handle the statement that "you are an orphan". Do you accept it cus you feel others are orphans too?

The other question has nothing to do with morality , are you saying both religious books statement on medical care or view are faulty? Ill be waiting to see if you will answer these in relation to ur analogy of orphans

(11) I believe that others reading ur answers to my questions find it funny the same way I do .
When I asked you question 11, I first showed you the direction and context in which the question was asked. I showed you the thoughts and reasons behind the question.
The question was not based on my view or understanding of what jesus said, my question is based on ur understanding and statement about what jesus said .
Thus I framed the question , if you believe jesus statement and have the view u just restated again , do you follow ur view? .
If ur view on jesus statement is the mosaic law should be followed word for word. Do you follow such view made by ur prophet jesus? I do not think this question is hard for one to understand , so I'm perturbed that you keep skipping it and answering questions I did not ask you. I'm just simply asking if you follow ur view/understanding of what jesus said in the scriptures u qouted.

Furthermore, on the verses about jesus statement you quoted , I have not told you what I think ur understand the statements made by jesus to really mean. How come you are now talking about what I view jesus was telling us in such verses . Do you know my view of kesus statement recorded in those verses? Have I posted my view on those verses? I've only made statements indicating that I have understanding that is different from urs about those verses, and if you want to know my view, create a thread for it.
I do not need to create a thread on the issue of if you follow the mosaic law, you have made the statement alluding that you have similarized and reviewed the mosaic law to create the Islamic law na. So I already know you dnt follow the mosaic law word for word , though you are quick to attack others for not following it and quick to claim its author as urs.

Lastly, do you believe and accept other Muslim views on the" fly wings" and "camel piss" issue? Do you accept that the hadiths stating such might have been fabricated? Or that moharmed was wrong on his medical cure statements?

Most important: pls refrain from abusive speech, maybe that's why some people do not reply you or refrain from reading ur post.

fineguy11:
congo is richer than thailand ...why must u come here to display ur ignorance?u could have displayed it in your fathers house where no one will find out...apart from military domination and probably sea disputes,what other reason does a country need to own an aircraft carrier?owning an aircraft carrier has nothing to do with international politics,,its a matter of need..the US has 11 because they need it to protect thier world military,politics dominance..japan,south korea has no carriers,,but thailand can never win a sea battle with either of those countries...besides,thailand has sea dispute with china probably thats why they own one and for ur info,thailand''s aircraft carrier currently is non functional...

Thank you, I had wanted to reply him but felt it is not really neccesary after reading his post again. Thailands aircraft carrier spends more time at the dock than at sea, it only moves to perform humanitarian activities. Congo has 800 naval personels, not enough to start an aircraft carrier, talk less of navigating it.

@ eshbeewanna

Questions I've asked you and you vehemently refused to answer.

(1) Pls where did I state that
"cleansing is not the same
meaning with treatment for
leprosy in the bible".
Ur refusal to provide a post I used the same exact words in
my sentence will put the tag of
Liar on you

(2)You accused me of being a
hypocrite for not believing in the mosaic law, I asked you to
provide proof where I said I dnt
believe the mosaic law, up till
now, no proof on where I said
that.

(3)Are you saying that I said that"you should just believe by
heart and not by practise"? If its so pls show me where I said it,? and if not , pls tell me why you added it to ur post? . Pls I beg u , dnt jump my questions.


(4)When you make statements,
pls add prove to ur statements,
you said christians still follow
the ten commandments, which
command do they follow and
how? Explain the command you think they follow and ill show u ur flaw. If you dnt , then the hypocrisy u accuse me of stays with you as a brand anywhere you go.


(5) I'm not ashamed of asking you if you practise the mosaic law , you state that the mosaic law is from God, do you follow the law as stated(word for word, giving from God to moses) by moses?
if yes, let us know , if no , let us
know.

(6)Or do you take part of it(mosaic law), leave part of it and adjust parts of it under the pretense of review?

(7)Are you saying that Gods law can be reviewed ? That it is not perfect so it needs review from time to time? PLS ANSWER MY QUESTIONs!!.

(For example, the mosaic law
made statements on how the
Sabbath should be observed,
so do you follow that? Why did
you remove it in ur review?


(9)On the issue of leviticus you
quoted, I want you , you ,you!!,
to tell us who you believe
authored those words you
posted. Is it ur own words u
created from ur mind, or is it a
fabrication included in a book?
Or is it of divine origin ?

(10)If I find fault in ur book, does common sense teach that the solution of the fault I find in ur book is to find fault in my book too? Does that remove the fault I found in ur book? Are you saying the two books are faulty?


(11)Now let's analyse ur statement again and you at it from ur side. U said Jesus (a prophet you believe in ) made a statement about the mosaic law and said not a word will pass away from it, has a word or letter not been removed from the mosaic law when you reviewed it to make the Islamic law? Has the Islamic law not removed some words from the mosaic law in creating
something similar ? If your
answer is yes, then you are
saying Jesus is a liar, if ur
answer is no, then you have to
proof that every letter in the
mosaic law is found in the
Islamic law.

[quote author=eshbeewanna post=34112079][/quote]God o!
Someone once said that he will not reply you , I was too late in understanding the reason why

A Muslim also said he did not read ur post, despite the fact that he made mention of part of my reply to ur post. I should have taking time to find out why he does not read ur post.

If I had known that you make statements you can't defend , I would not have asked you to defend ur statements. If I had known that you see questions as categorical statements , even after seing the (?) sign , I would have kept quiet . But I kept going on thinking you will understand , despite your being brought up among people who are happy to use derogatory and abusive words.

Fabrication:
My initial question was made with the believe that you , as a muslim , believe that the bible has been adulterated , that some human fabrications has been included into the bible and thus currupted the original books God gave to moses and jesus.

You, a Muslim now quote from that book in which you muslims say parts of it are fabricated.
This now made me ask the question: that that part of the bible you qouted,is it part of the book God gave to moses and jesus? Or is it part of the bible you (muslims)say is fabricated(man made)?

That above, is a question I've been trying to get you to answer. Now I know you will never answer that question.

I apologize for my mistake. In my last post , I said "you said(say)" something concerning fabrication , I wanted to say " I believe that you view part of the bible as being fabricated".

If you do not view parts of the bible as being fabricated, pls feel free to let everyone know, feel free to let everyone know ur view on the divinity of the bible verses you quoted.

Lastly, I do not believe that any part of the bible is fabricated . I brought the issue up cus I believe you believe that parts of the bible is fabricated. And I wanted to know ur view on it , expecially the verses you quoted.

Moses and the book:

U stated that I said "that moses was not giving a book". I asked you to provide prove where I said such . Do you think the answer you gave showed that I said that?. I said "you and not i said "moses was giving a book",how did you now calculate that to me saying "moses was not giving a book". Your religion made a statement, and I was just reminding you of the statement ur religion made.

Belief:

If you want to know what jesus meant with those words in the verses you quoted, expecially the words "fufilled" and "established" , pls create a thread for it .or do you know what those words mean?

Ten commandments:
Tell me which law in the ten commandments Christian follow, how they follow it, and I will show you ur flaw and how wrong you are .

Thread:
Do you believe the hadiths on the camel piss and fly wings issue ? Or do you agree with some of ur fellow muslims that the hadiths are fabricated ?
or do you have the view that moses made mistakes as to medicine ?

eshbeewanna:
You are just a big fraud!Does your bible tells you that you should just believe that something exist and just for the sake of mere existece and not to follow it?
You believe God exist.
You believe that Jesus once existed.
You believe the bible is the word of God but you are not obliged to practise all these believes I gave to you as example.How does it make you a complete believer when you are not ready to practise them?Is this the kind of believe God wants from us?
Aint your analogy stupid and hypocritical?
That was why I gave you quotation from the Bible that support my view that faith without works is useless.

I quote it again
James 2:14-26New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

Please hear what jesus says again

Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament:  "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)"  It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled.

The verses of Matthew 23:1-3

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.'  (Matthew 23:1-3)"
  We clearly see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
Therefore mr Liar there is nothing you have to say here anymore except you just want to argue just for the fun of it.Your master jesus has said it all by giving that statement to expose hypocrites like you who would later want to twist is word.I would rather believe Jesus rather than believe a Pathological Liar like you.Any contrary view from the bible to what jesus said above will mean your bible contradicts itself.

You asking me to give you were you said you don't believe in the OT verbatim is just an evidence of you lacking deductive reasoning.Don't you know if you claim you are not obliged to follow a particular laws,what it implies is that you don't believe in the laws?
Please I beg you stop playing foolery to the world.Please make use of your brain.The fact that you acknowledge the existence of anything does not mean you believe in that thing.True believe is practising what you believe in.Jesus already explain that to you above.

Talking about giving examples I had giving enough to you is just your deceptive nature that failed to acknowledge it go back to my previous post and you will see it.

If you think we muslims do not practise the mosaic laws I would advise you open another tread on that.
 
Concerning leviticus chapter 14 you should be ashamed of yourself I repeat again, asking me if the verse are my own fabrication?You are just a slow poke.Is the verses not in your bible?Did I write the bible?
Your theologians agreed that it was wrtten by moses.yet you are asking me if it was part of the scripture giving to moses?If you know you don't have anywhere to hide why not surrender to the truth? If you believe otherwise why not state your believe about the chapter and let see what you have to say.In fact you are an epitome of tricks and lies.

Again you displayed your ignorance by saying moses was not given books. I don't know what you understand by books,because what I know is that God reveal messages to all the prophets which were written down for the purpose of teaching it and practising.Even your bible claimed God even used his hand to write some.I wonder if God is a Man!

" Moses went up into Mount Sinai again and there received the Ten Commandments a second time (Ex. 34:1,29). There was given hundreds of laws for the people, these laws were divided into in three phases:  
 
Moral Laws (10 Commandments written by the finger of God),

Civil Laws (Dietary and Judicial also), and
Ceremonial Laws (Sacrifices, Feast Days, etc.)".

These are words of bible experts who know better than you.yet you just spew out rubbish to condenm what they say.
Your lack of sound understanding makes you think may be God sent physical book from heaven to moses.If not you wouldnt be asking whether moses was given book.

Talking about finding fault.I ask you again that does it make sense to you, if someone staying in a glass house is throwing stones at people?

The truth is you are just acting like a wounded lion because you have been floored.
Your arguement and analogies are just too weak!

First, you said I posted some things, and for that you called me a liar and hypocrite , and I asked you to show me and the whole world where I said such . You still have not showed me or the world several posts later. The tag of liar and hypocrite shall remain on you untill you show the world where I made such statement.

Now u re trying again to ascribe another analogical lie to me indirectly and i will not allow it.
Neither me, nor the bible ever told you that I or the bible believe that I believe some things just exist just for the sake of mere existence. I never made that statement and neither does the bible.
In fact, I used the word " reason" several times in my post. That there is a reason why God gave the mosaic law to the isrealites, a reason why it is included in the scriptures , a reason why christians do not follow the mosaic law.
I believe everything in the scriptures is inspired,it is written for a reason, but must I do everything there? The answer is no. must I follow the mosaic law on the issue of marriage and divorce, the answer is no and the reasons for not following it is also written in the bible. Sitting down, taking ur time to look at the reason , concept , and meaning of statements in the bible will help you a lot in understanding what the bible is really telling you.

I , as a Christian practice what the scriptures tells me to practise, not what you think I should practise.
You have a knack of trying to twist others peoples statements, adding topics that is not part of the discussion, postulating beliefs that you cannot defend and more importantly, refusing to answer serious but simple questions posted to you. You do all this in a desperate bid to hide the truth on the threads topic and to have the ability to shift ground in case ur have been found wanting in ur post.

U are still trying to deviate again by posting another bible verse you dnt understand .
U quoted a bible verses but you do not understand it, u only see the words but you do not grasp the meaning, you deliberately refused to explain these key words "I came to fufill it " and "untill everything is accomplished". If you want to know what jesus was really saying there, please create another thread for us to discuss it as I wunt deviate with you.

Now let's analyse ur statement again and you at it from ur side.
U said jesus (a prophet you believe in ) made a statement about the mosaic law and said not a word will pass away from it, has a word or letter not been removed from the mosaic law when you reviewed it to make the Islamic law? Has the Islamic law not removed some words from the mosaic law in creating something similar ? If your answer is yes, then you are saying jesus is a liar, if ur answer is no, then you have to proof that every letter in the mosaic law is found in the Islamic law.

Now back to the issue of believe and ur statement of deductive reasoning. I'm now starting to believe that ur reasoning is flawed because you can't seperate "believe" from "belief" and the reality of both when It comes to the scriptures. If I where you, ill take a closer at those two words.

First example:
I believe nigeria has a constitution before the 1999 constitution , that previous constitution is binding on u as long as you claim to be a nigerian or u reside in its territory. You believe this constitution exist and you know its true, you even followed it. but is this constitution still binding on you now? No. Cus a new constitution has been established. You dnt follow the old constitution despite ur believe in it
2nd example
I believe the mosaic law existed, I believe, it was written down and followed. My belief states that I dnt have to follow the believe in the existence of the mosaic law and it give me enough reasons not to follow it. My belief states what I should do concerning all the inspired words in the bible. If you want to know what my belief is, what it says, its reasons for doing or saying what is written down, pls create a thread and I will gladly tell you.
Jesus did not tell me to practice the mosaic law, it is you that think that jesus told me to practise it. More interesting is the fact that it is you that does not follow ur own thinking of what jesus said as you dnt follow the mosaic law letter for letter , but follow what you think is similar to it.

Concerning levitucus chapter 14, let's see who is the slowpoke here.

did I ask you if the verses you quoted are ur own fabrication? Definitely NO! , so I wonder where you got that idea from.
I said that you believe that the bible as we have it now is corrupted , that some verses are fabricated and added to it by men (if I'm wrong let me know o). Hence I posted the question to you that since it was you! you! you! you! That quoted that chapter, you! You! You!, not me, not others, should be able to tell us the authority behind that chapter, is it of divine origin as in , is it part of the original book God gave to moses or is it a later fabrication by man . This is a very simple question that I think you, who posted the verses in the first place can answer.

I did not say its fabricated, neither I'm I suggesting it . It is you that say some part of the bible is fabricated and false, and I'm asking you is that are those verses you quoted among the fabricated verses or its among the book allah gave to moses.
If you can't explain your view or belief as to the divinity of those verses you quoted, a simple "I don't know" will do. All these ur parabolations reminds people reading ur post of "oga at the top" u dnt even understand the question and you are calling someone a slowpoke.

U say I'm lying, pls tell or show the world where I said "moses was not giving a book " . Ur refusal to provide where I made such statement while only make everyone confirm who you really are.

My questions to you goes deeper than talk about finding fault, I asked you is ur method the best way of answering people who think that ur scriptures are faulty?
Do you think finding fault in theirs absolve the fault in urs? Do you think both sides are faulty?

You say I act like a wounded lion, but you are the one shifting about, not answering simple questions , not going straight, accusing someone of not doing things the he himself refused to do.
U cut part of my post away cus you can't answer the questions there, or you feel answering the questions will put you on a wrong footing. Simple simple questions on ur view u cannot answer, yet u say you are truthfull.

Kei144:
Why is it that a lot of things you hear in the churches do not agree with the Bible? I have always heard that Jesus ministered on earth for 3½ years. This morning I decided to see if I could see in the Bible the time of the year Jesus began his ministry. And I saw in the gospel according to John not only the time when Jesus began the ministry, but also all the time that the ministry covered. So, popular church leaders of the past just came up with their own ideas and the church people accepted these ideas as God's ideas, because the popular leaders were called men of God.

Ideas like trinity and assumption of Mary are nowhere in the Bible. Modern Christians still hold to these ideas and accuse any person refuting them of blasphemy.

Jesus began his ministry in the month of Abib (Nissan). He was crucified just before Passover of the third year. The ministry lasted two years and two weeks, by Jewish calendar; roughly two years of the Gregorian calendar.

In order to get the timing in the gospel of John, begin at Jn. 1:32.

Jn. 2:1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there,
Jn. 2:2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding.

This was third day of Jesus' ministry.

Jn. 2:13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

Jn. 2:23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. [Or and believed in him]

Jn. 4:45 When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, for they also had been there.

Jn. 6:4 The Jewish Passover Feast was near.

This was the beginning of the second year; in the month of Abib (Nissan).

Jn. 7:2 But when the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles was near,
Jn. 7:3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “You ought to leave here and go to Judea, so that your disciples may see the miracles you do.

Jn. 10:22 Then came the Feast of Dedication [That is, Hanukkah] at Jerusalem. It was winter,
Jn. 10:23 and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon’s Colonnade.

Jn. 11:55 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, many went up from the country to Jerusalem for their ceremonial cleansing before the Passover.

This is the month of Abib (Nisan) of the third year.

Jn. 12:1 Six days before the Passover, Jesus arrived at Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead.

Jn. 13:1 It was just before the Passover Feast. Jesus knew that the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now showed them the full extent of his love. [Or he loved them to the last]

Are you saying that jesus ministry was for 2 and half years jewish calender and just over 2 years in our modern day calender?

eshbeewanna:
Oga! If I call you a big fraud you will begin to tantrum again.You don't know you claim you are not obliged to follow a particular laws.What ity means is that you don't believe in those laws by common sense.It is foolishness on your part asking me give you proof of were you said that verbatim.Please you don't know logic I repeat go and learn it.Stop your cunny attitude you are not talking to fools.

Again I want to ask you is your explanation above the kind of God demands from believers?That you should just believe by heart and not by practise.Have you forgotten that your bible said:

James 2:14-26New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
If you claimed you are not obliged to follow the mosaic law your bible as replied above.But the funny thing is that you christians still follow the ten commandment which is a mosaic law.
Can you see your double standard(Hypocracy).Are you not an Hypocrite here again?
Just look at how you shot yourself again!

You are not even ashamed of yourself asking if muslims practise the mosaic laws?you christian lay claim to the bible as your scripture by including another religion's scripture as part of the bible.In which you are not ready to follow.I want to ask you what moral right do have to ask muslims why they don't practise the mosaic law?If you as a christian that believe the bible as word of God,is not obliged to follow it.Again can't you see you question is senseless.

If I tell you that moslems practise the mosaic laws but with some modification in it.A person who understands religion and it laws would know that are meant to be reviewed.Even secular laws are reviewed.But it is different in your case,where you claimed that those law are not meant for you at all and yet you still follow the ten commandment which are part of the mosaic laws.
If jesus came with new laws tell me.Why did he say "he came not to abolish the law but rather to fulfil it"?
Again if you claim you are not obliged to follow the laws.Tell me what penal code jesus brought for crimes like stealing,adultry,fornication,slandering,murder,blasphemy and the likes.Because Islamic law gave similar punishment to that of mosaic laws for the above crimes.And you open your mouth to tell me muslims don't practise mosaic laws.
Do you see your level of ignorance?
The truth is christianity does not have laws and that's why you christians are lawless people.You advocate gay evil things in the world like Gay Bishop,same sex marriage,nudity in the house of God and the likes.Among the three Abrahamic religion its only in christianity you don't have penal code for crimes. That's is why you have no concensus when it comes to religious jurispundence.Each denomination interpretes the bible according to their own whims and caprises.

In respect to leviticus you should bury your head in shame asking me that question again.
I want ask you did the muslim write it?That you are asking me if it was fabricated or was giving to moses?
Let's even assumed it was fabricated.Does it not corrobote that the bible is corrupted.Is God incapacitated that he would allow it word to be fabricated and if he inspired the wtitting of the bible.Did he inspire the fabrication of leviticus?
But if it was part of the books giving to moses what contention do you have with that?
Please ask your clerics the question. You don't ask you neighbour why your house is messed up but rather you are to ask your family.Is just common sense and simple logic which you don't have.
The reason why I quoted leviticus for you is just proove to you that if you christians believe muhammed science of medcine is wrong then the bible science of medcine is wrong too.And the reason for you people's aim is to find fault too.
But I tell you don't throw stones when you are living in a glass house.

Still, you refused to provide proof to support ur accusation that isaid/posted a particular sentence or sentenses, as long as you dnt provide those proofs for the world to see, the tag of hypocrite and liar will be placed on you.

I defined what believe is to you as : to accept something as true .

I accept the mosaic law as true , do you?.
I accept it as real, do you.?
I accept it as from God, do you?

Some verses in the quran has been abrogated, but those verses are still in the quran, you accept and believe in the existence and divine source of those verses, but u dnt follow it but follow the verses that did the abrogration. If you can do that and call it common sense, why can't you then accept the better common sense in front of you. As you said , you are not a fool .

When you read the bible, you learn about Gods purpose, the reasons for following the mosaic law was stated there, the reasons for christians not being obligated to follow it is also written there. I dnt follow ur own common sence, I follow what the bible says. The bible is meant for learning, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that you can be equipped to do Gods word . The bible contains history on how God dealt with men, his justice, power, love and mercy are all stipulated there.
Ur sense stipulates that when something is written in the bible, then you must follow it , my sence stipulates that when something is written in the bible, it is for a reason, it is for a purpose, the reason and purpose behind what is written determines how you will handle what is written and how to apply it in ur lives.

This is the second time I'm giving and telling you the difference between believing and following something. I hope common sense will prevail this time.

I do not understand this statement : "again I want to ask you is your explanation above the kind of god demands from believers? ". Pls rephrase the statement.

Are you saying that I sad that "you should just believe by heart and not by practise"? If its so pls show me where I said it, and if not , pls tell me why you added it to ur post . Pls I beg u , dnt jump my questions.

When you make statements, pls add prove to ur statements, you said christians still follow the ten commandments, which command do they follow and how? Explain the command you think they follow and ill show u ur flaw. If you dnt , then the hypocrisy u accuse me of stays with you as a brand anywhere you go.

Like I said in my post, if you want to know how and why jesus came to fufill the law and about Christian laws, create a new thread for it, you have been attempting and succeeding in changing the main issue in all ur posts. Maybe you think this is a boxing match and you are searching for weak spots. If you really want to know those things, create a thread for it.

I'm not ashamed of asking you if you practise the mosaic law , you state that the mosaic law is from God, do you follow the law as stated(word for word, giving from God to moses) by moses?if yes, let us know , if no , let us know.
Or do you take part of it, leave part of it and adjust parts of it under the pretense of review? Are you saying that Gods law can be reviewed ? That it is not perfect so it needs review from time to time? PLS ANSWER MY QUESTIONs!!.

"Similar" is different from "same" if you are following a law similar to the mosaic law, then you are following a law that's not the same as the mosaic law. Nigeria is following 1999 constitution, its similar to the previous constitution but not the same as the previous constitution, and the previous constitution cannot be used. For example, the mosaic law made statements on how the Sabbath should be observed, so do you follow that? Why did you remove it in ur review?

Can you see the hypocrisy now? I say I dnt follow it , you say you follow it (not sure as you have not clarified urself) or u follow something similar , yet the similarity is not up to 10%. In any case, you are not following the law, word for word as giving by allah to moses. So how come you accuse others of not following it too?. Or is the mosaic law not allahs law again.

Ill jump over ur postulations on christianity and its laws as I see it as an attempt to change the direction of the discussion again . If you want to discuss about Christian law, create a thread for it .

On the issue of leviticus you quoted, I want you , you ,you!!, to tell us who you believe authored those words you posted. Is it ur own words u created from ur mind, or is it a fabrication included in a book? Or is it of divine origin ?

Its You, you, yooou!,not me, not the bible that claimed that God gave moses a book or message. Is the words you quoted in lev chapter 14 part of that book or message? Why is the question hard for you to answer, if you dnt know, just state you dnt know.

If I find fault in ur book, does common sense teach that the solution of the fault I find in ur book is to find fault in my book too? Does that remove the fault I found in ur book? Are you saying the two books are faulty?

eshbeewanna:
The more you comment the more you display your ignorance.It seems you just argue just for the fun it.Anyway let me educate you here again that logically if you claim that you are not obliged to follow a particular laws it inveriably means you don't believe in that book where the laws are found.So you are the pathological liar and also pure hypocrite for holding unto a book which you are not obliged to follow.Just a common sense!
Now you are claiming again that you believe in the laws again but you are not obliged to follow them.How can you believe in laws that you are not ready to follow?So if a christian tells you he believes in Jesus but he his not obliged to follow him what will you tell him? The answer is that he is not a believer. Simple!

But please hear what another christian scholar said again about your assertion that your obliged to follow the laws in the old testament.
Obviously commands in the Mosaic Law are important, for they make up a substantial portion of God's written revelation. Yet the Old Testament contains many laws that seem strange to modern readers (e.g., "Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk," Exod. 34:26; "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material," Lev. 19:19; "Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear," Deut. 22:12).[1]

Christians violate a number of Old Testament laws with some regularity (e.g., "A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing," Deut. 22:5; "Rise in the presence of the aged," Lev. 19:32; "The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses," Deut. 14:.

Furthermore, while believers tend to ignore many Old Testament laws, they embrace others, especially the Ten Commandments, as the moral underpinnings of Christian behavior (e.g., "Love your neighbor as yourself," Lev. 19:18; "You shall not commit murder," Exod. 20:13; "You shall not commit adultery," Deut. 5:18).

Why do Christians adhere to some laws and ignore others? Which ones are valid and which are not? Many Christians today make this decision based merely on whether a law seems to be relevant. Surely this haphazard and existential approach to interpreting the Old Testament Laws is inadequate.

In respect to your question why we muslims don't follow the mosaic laws?
Your questions illogical because the mosaic scripture is part of your bible but yet you christians refused to follow it and you still have the guts to ask muslims why we don't follow it?Is that not another sign of hypocrasy in you.

However, let me make it known to you that Muslims believes in all the prophets of God and their scriptures.

“Say, (O believers), “We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims (in submission) to Him.”
Quran chapter 2 verse 136

That is why the laws of islam are similar to the mosaic laws but with some variations(improvement).In fact many of the sharia laws are found in the mosaic laws which muslims practise today.

In respect to your question on leviticus.whether it was given to moses or fabricated?hear what your theologians said about it

The traditional view is that Leviticus was compiled by Moses, or that the material in it goes back to his time, but internal clues suggest that the book developed much later in Israel's history and was completed either near the end of the Judean monarchy in the late seventh century BCE or in the exilic and post-exilic period of the sixth and fifth centuries BCE.

I want to tell that if you believe it was fabricated that means you have again confirmed that your bible contains defects and therefore one can't believe that God inspired those who wrote it because God is perfect he doesn't commit flaws.He is not an author of confusion.
But if you believe it was given to moses, so be it.The buttom line is that the book of leviticus is part of your bible whatever problems you people have with it is your problem. period!

You accused me of being a liar, that I made a particular statement, I told you to provide proof that I made such statement or else the tag of liar will be on you. Up till now you have not provided the proof .

You accused me of being a hypocrite for not believing in the mosaic law, I asked you to provide proof where I said I dnt believe the mosaic law, up till now, no proof on where I said that.

You have so far been trying different tactics to change the subject under discussion, you've diverted from Islams medical discussion to the leprosy in the bible, you where proved wrong , you now diverted it to the mosaic law and that we dnt follow it, people are seeing ur antics o!.

You think that if you believe in something, then you must follow it , and you relate that to the bible and mosaic law.

Believe :is to accept something as true. But it does mean you should follow it. I believe that the devil exist , but do I follow him? I believe that the Americans do have a law , but I'm I obligated to follow it? .if the nigerian constitution is being changed , do I say ill not follow the new one cus I believe the old one. Let me explain further, A country enacts a law, I believe that that country did enact that law , I believe that the law was enacted for that country by someone, and I believe that that someone exist . In a book I believe in,inspired by that same someone, those laws where included, the book did not state that I should follow that law, did state why I dnt have to follow it ,did state why those laws where written in the book, but did state another way for me to follow to achieve my aim of evalasting life.
So the mosaic law being in the bible is not a directive that I should follow that law, for that law was based on a covenant which I'm not under as I'm under a new convenant .the reason the mosaic was written is even stated in the bible, but you can't see it cus the only reason you read the bible is not because you believe in it, but because you are looking for fault in it.

The bible contains human history, experiences, laws, prophecies, advice, reprimands, orders, counsels and a lot of others things. These things where included in the bible to serve as a guide to our hope, our ways of life, what is good to do and what is not good to do and with its resultant consequences.
The bible was written as Gods word to mankind, to show us the way back to him, the process for the extablishment of such way is stated in the bible, and the mosaic law was part of that process, but as christians, the directive has changed,even though the main process remains the same . There is a lot to say on these, if you want to really learn about the bible and the mosaic law, pls create a thread and invite me.

A Christian is one who follows jesus, he is no longer a Christian if he does not follow jesus, believing in jesus does not make you a Christian. so if anyone tells you he does not follow jesus,he is not a Christian. Christians are not obligated to follow the mosaic law, and he is not wrong to say so cus the bible says so. the mosaic law is in the bible for many other reasons than following it. So you can see how flawed and illogical or analogy is.

Ur inability to understand the Christian way has caused you to believe that christians follow some part of the law and do not follow others.
Jesus said, love God and love ur neigbour. So if I dnt commit murder, I'm loving God and my neigbour, if I dnt commit adultery , I'm loving my God and my neigbour as I am not infringing upon the the rights of my neigbour. So the issue of selecting any part of the mosaic law is false. Do you get it now or do you need further explanation .


I just smiled when I read ur reply on your view of the mosaic law. You have so far refused to give direct answers to simple, direct questions. Ur first reason for not following the mosaic law was because its in the bible and you quickly shifted back to accusing christians. Does this answer my question, definitely NO!.

You dnt follow the mosaic law but follow the Islamic law and you you still accuse others of not following the mosaic law.

You believe the mosaic law is from allah , yet you accuse the law of frailty in medicine.

You say you believe in the law(based on the scriptures u quoted), but then you made adjustment and added variations to the mosaic law to create ur law. These means that according to ur view, the mosaic law was flawed, so it needed adjustments . U added variations so as to fit ur ideaology . You removed (abrogated) part of the mosaic law that does not go with ur religion. And yet you claim that you follow the mosaic law as giving by moses? My friend, dnt you realise others are reading ur post ? Why do you potray urself in this way.

More than half of the directive of the mosaic law is either not deliberately mentioned or changed in the ISlamic law, yet you say it is similar?, you selected some to follow and some not to follow, and you accuse others of doing the same thing, Tell me that's is not hypocrisy!.

On the issue of leviticus, I asked you if those verses you qouted are part of Gods word to moses or where fabricated by man. By ur answer, everybody can now see the kind of person you are. You refused to answer by not telling us what you believe. You stated what so called theologians say, you repeated the question back at me, but you did not state if you , you ,you! Believe the words in leviticus are man made fabrications or part of Allahs words to moses. If you trully are for the truth, tell us ur personal believe on the author of those words found at leviticus chapter 14.

In fact, all the scriptures you have quoted in ur last post, tell us who you think the author is.

Who is interested in explaining what paul was saying in 1 cor 10:1-5 .

eshbeewanna:
Oga you are just playing hide and sick here.In your words you claimed that the bible verses is a preventive measure
"the bible never propagated a cure for leprosy, but it makes directives clear as to how to prevent an epidemic among the camp of isrealites"
You can see your lies.In another place you claimed is just a ceremonial cleansing.
If you don't have any problem with the word 'treatment' so why are you fussing about the word 'cure'?Is treatment and cure not the same?
Meaning of CURE in the dictionary- a method or course of remedial treatment, as for disease.

But the truth of the matter is that those who are authourities on the bible gave a clear analysis of the verses for better understanding by stating that bible used cure for other diseases butin the case of leprosy cleansing is prefered because the word cleansing is all encompassing.Which involves cure and prevention.If you read my refrence very well you have noticed that the bible scholar further mentioned that in some places the bible used the word cure in respect to leprosy.

How earth will you tell someone to turn a deaf hear to somebody who is certified as an authourity on the bible and you expect the person follow an ignorant like you?The funny thing about you is that if that scholar supported your postulation you would have agreed with him.

Please if you don't know about logic please I advice you go and learn it.The same you claimed that as a christian you are not suppose to follow the mosaic laws and yet you claim their scripture as part of your bible.If you don't believe in their laws,stop quoting from there because it doesn't make any sense you keeping their scriptures in your bible.
Do you know they don't believe in your new testament and your jesus?

I used the bible as the bases for my explanations .

They the isrealites have rules relating to the discovery of leprosy, quarantining humans, objects and houses is not cure , but a preventive method to ensure the desease does not spread. The mosaic law did not state a process of treating a leprosy infested person, but it states how to check it, confirm
It, and prevent it from spreading to others. chapter 13 of leviticus helps us to understand this and what lepers have to do, and where to go.
If the person, object , house is discovered to be free/healed of the desease , the cleansing process starts , if the human, object ,house is found to still have the desease after periodic checks , the cleasing process does not occur . I dnt know how this is hard for you to beli eve , I've shown you the bible chapters and verses to show you the truth, you have seen the truth there, but decided to push it away and favour the words of a man because he is a certified authority. Is the leader of isis not an educated certified authority?. Thought the bible was the source of ur initial statements, now you dnt want to use it again to propagate your false accusations.
The bible is the bases for our discussion and all the places where cleansing is mentioned in relation to leprosy is when the human, object , house has already been cured, then the ceremonial religous cleansing can occur. This verses I very much pointed out to you.

I asked you to prove urself not a liar and hypocrite with you accusations ,you have not addressed that . You have just re-engineered the false accusation in a more subtle tone to hide the effect of my reprisal and questions . You dnt get off lightly, ill still put the tab of liar and hypocrite on you if you dnt respond to my initial questions.

I never said I dnt believe in the mosaic law. The mosaic law is from God . if I'm wrong about the source of the mosaic law, pls tell Me, and pls tell the whole world why you , yes you, dnt follow the mosaic law, failure to do so will show the hypocrisy in you. First tell us the source of the mosaic law and why you dnt follow it.

lI'm beggining to fear the desperation at which you attach derogatory words to ur discussion, is that your natural behavior? to trying to make the bible look bad to justify the koran and hadihts?.
You guys have not come to a conclusion on the camel pias and fly wings issue, you now want to drag the bible into it.

One more question , leviticus chapter 14 that you posted , is it part of the book God gave to the isrealites (moses) , or its a false story that was fabricated and included into the scriptures? .

Empiree:
This is what you said @underlined

Bros, I believe that statement is easy and simple enough for one to understand na. Did you not see the law I was reffering to there? I'm beggining to seriously fear you o!.
I think this is a poor attempt at changing the direction of these thread.
Guys abeg, what's the final decision on "the camel piss and fly wing cure" discussion .
Have we agreed that the hadith is fabricated? Or that the prophet actually made those postulations and he is right ? Or the prophet made those postulations as an illeterate Arab man and he is wrong ?

Which one do we follow ?

Empiree:
hard to watch. I was simply saying Christianity is not without a law i:e not a law-free religion as you portrayed. So watch your fellow brothers (above). They answered you bro

Seems I'm getting you small small pls where did I state christianity does not have law, or where did I portray such law free view . Abeg no put igbo for my pocket o. I never made such statement o.

I was wondering naa ! , as to say y u quickly jump to say you disagree and no gree talk wetin u disagree on

Can any explain what paul was trying to Tell us at 1 cor 10: 1-5?

An interesting topic, think the answers will come out if we truthfully answer each others questions

Empiree:
This video should answer your claim that you Christians don't have to follow old laws. Do you disagree with your fellow Christians here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak2WlWYHcqM

Sir, I'm not watching any video , it is ur own personal reason, belief, view , opinion for dissagreing with me that I want you to post. And post it in words so that we can discuss it

eshbeewanna:
You are just a big fraudster, is only God that can deliver you!

Please read what your theologian says about the matter:

Leshem
LEPER; LEPROSY

lep'-er, lep'-ro-si (tsara`ath; lepra):

A slowly progressing and intractable disease characterized by subcutaneous nodules (Hebrew se'eth; Septuagint oule; the King James Version "rising", scabs or cuticular crusts (Hebrew cappachath; Septuagint semasia) and white shining spots appearing to be deeper than the skin (Hebrew bahereth; Septuagint telaugema). Other signs are

(1) that the hairs of the affected part turn white and

(2) that later there is a growth of "quick raw flesh."

This disease in an especial manner rendered its victims unclean; even contact with a leper defiled whoever touched him, so while the cure of other diseases is called healing, that of leprosy is called cleansing (except in the case of Miriam (Numbers 12:13) and that of the Samaritan (Luke 17:15) where the word "heal" is used in reference to leprosy). The disease is described in the Papyrus Ebers as ukhedu (the Coptic name for leprosy is tseht).

Are you not a lier by claiming that 'cleansing' is not the same meaning with treatment for leprosy by the bible?
Even a lay man would have understood it to be the cure or treatment for leprosy according to your bible verse.
Have you not been exposed now by your fellow christian cleric?

Look at your foolishness again you quickly denied the Old testament just because you have been cornered.You have again confirmed our assertion about you christians attitude of running from pillar to post the moment you see what is senseless or absurde in the bible.But funny enough the same you would quickly quote from the old testament when you need proofs to butress your point.
What a shame!If you don't believe in the OT please stop quoting from there.Hypocrites!

Just imagin the nonesense the bible advise us to use for the cure(cleansing)of leprosy.

It’s amazing how it goes on and on, from killing birds, to mixing up some weird flour-oil thing, to dumping this crap on your house.  I really have to wonder, with this level of modern medicine, why would a Christian ever see a doctor.  They are obviously quacks with their pills and shots.

Leviticus 14:1-57
1  And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2  This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest:
3  And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;
4  Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
5  And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
6  As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:
7  And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.
8  And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days.
9  But it shall be on the seventh day, that he shall shave all his hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows, even all his hair he shall shave off: and he shall wash his clothes, also he shall wash his flesh in water, and he shall be clean.
10  And on the eighth day he shall take two he lambs without blemish, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish, and three tenth deals of fine flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and one log of oil.
11  And the priest that maketh him clean shall present the man that is to be made clean, and those things, before the LORD, at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
12  And the priest shall take one he lamb, and offer him for a trespass offering, and the log of oil, and wave them for a wave offering before the LORD:
13  And he shall slay the lamb in the place where he shall kill the sin offering and the burnt offering, in the holy place: for as the sin offering is the priest’s, so is the trespass offering: it is most holy:
14  And the priest shall take some of the blood of the trespass offering, and the priest shall put it upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot:
15  And the priest shall take some of the log of oil, and pour it into the palm of his own left hand:
16  And the priest shall dip his right finger in the oil that is in his left hand, and shall sprinkle of the oil with his finger seven times before the LORD:
17  And of the rest of the oil that is in his hand shall the priest put upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot, upon the blood of the trespass offering:
18  And the remnant of the oil that is in the priest’s hand he shall pour upon the head of him that is to be cleansed: and the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD.
19  And the priest shall offer the sin offering, and make an atonement for him that is to be cleansed from his uncleanness; and afterward he shall kill the burnt offering:
20  And the priest shall offer the burnt offering and the meat offering upon the altar: and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and he shall be clean.
21  And if he be poor, and cannot get so much; then he shall take one lamb for a trespass offering to be waved, to make an atonement for him, and one tenth deal of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering, and a log of oil;
22  And two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, such as he is able to get; and the one shall be a sin offering, and the other a burnt offering.
23  And he shall bring them on the eighth day for his cleansing unto the priest, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, before the LORD.
24  And the priest shall take the lamb of the trespass offering, and the log of oil, and the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD:
25  And he shall kill the lamb of the trespass offering, and the priest shall take some of the blood of the trespass offering, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot:
26  And the priest shall pour of the oil into the palm of his own left hand:
27  And the priest shall sprinkle with his right finger some of the oil that is in his left hand seven times before the LORD:
28  And the priest shall put of the oil that is in his hand upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot, upon the place of the blood of the trespass offering:
29  And the rest of the oil that is in the priest’s hand he shall put upon the head of him that is to be cleansed, to make an atonement for him before the LORD.
30  And he shall offer the one of the turtledoves, or of the young pigeons, such as he can get;
31  Even such as he is able to get, the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, with the meat offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for him that is to be cleansed before the LORD.
32  This is the law of him in whom is the plague of leprosy, whose hand is not able to get that which pertaineth to his cleansing.
33  And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
34  When ye be come into the land of Canaan, which I give to you for a possession, and I put the plague of leprosy in a house of the land of your possession;
35  And he that owneth the house shall come and tell the priest, saying, It seemeth to me there is as it were a plague in the house:
36  Then the priest shall command that they empty the house, before the priest go into it to see the plague, that all that is in the house be not made unclean: and afterward the priest shall go in to see the house:
37  And he shall look on the plague, and, behold, if the plague be in the walls of the house with hollow strakes, greenish or reddish, which in sight are lower than the wall;
38  Then the priest shall go out of the house to the door of the house, and shut up the house seven days:
39  And the priest shall come again the seventh day, and shall look: and, behold, if the plague be spread in the walls of the house;
40  Then the priest shall command that they take away the stones in which the plague is, and they shall cast them into an unclean place without the city:
41  And he shall cause the house to be scraped within round about, and they shall pour out the dust that they scrape off without the city into an unclean place:
42  And they shall take other stones, and put them in the place of those stones; and he shall take other morter, and shall plaister the house.
43  And if the plague come again, and break out in the house, after that he hath taken away the stones, and after he hath scraped the house, and after it is plaistered;
44  Then the priest shall come and look, and, behold, if the plague be spread in the house, it is a fretting leprosy in the house: it is unclean.
45  And he shall break down the house, the stones of it, and the timber thereof, and all the morter of the house; and he shall carry them forth out of the city into an unclean place.
46  Moreover he that goeth into the house all the while that it is shut up shall be unclean until the even.
47  And he that lieth in the house shall wash his clothes; and he that eateth in the house shall wash his clothes.
48  And if the priest shall come in, and look upon it, and, behold, the plague hath not spread in the house, after the house was plaistered: then the priest shall pronounce the house clean, because the plague is healed.
49  And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
50  And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:
51  And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
52  And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:
53  But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
54  This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and socall,
55  And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,
56  And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:
57  To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.

Abusive words will not help you in anyway . Maybe that's how you where taught to relate with others or maybe you think using such words makes you sound truthfull , I dnt know. But I wunt degrade My self or my reply with such words.

I'm not a fraudstar and I will prove you wrong.

Like I warn others, ill warn you about twisting words and making statements not attributed to me.
Pls where did I state that "cleansing is not the same meaning with treatment for leprosy in the bible".

Ur refusal to provide a post I used the same exact words in my sentence will put the tag of "liar" of you.

There is also something I want you to understand, being clean or unclean under the mosaic law is far far more than the contacting of deseases, it includes spiritual and social matters. There is a process that the isrealites follow in being termed as clean when they have been previously unclean and most of these process includes a ceremonial cleansing , but that ceremonial cleansing is done after the person or thing has been certified as clean, eg free from the disease, has received pardon for his spiritual sins or has done the right thing in their society.

In the bible,during moses time, there is no physical cure for leprosy , ur thinking that the bible provides a cure for leprosy is where you are getting the whole proccess wrong .the whole process in the case of leprosy is to prevent further spread of the desease and to certify a victim of the desease as healed or cured of the desease. That the bible does not provide a cure does not mean that individuals do not get cured .

A post by a so called Christian cleric does not ascertain the truth. The truth is in the bible and that's what we will use shortly .

Pls tell me and the whole world how I denied the old testament. Pls tell me what I did or say to make you think I dnt believe in the old testament. pls do not leave this aspect out in ur reply, pls do not or the tag hypocrite! Will fall on you.

Now let's use the bible to clarify the truth.

Leviticus chapter 13 states how God told the isrealite priest to identify leprosy in man or object, its contagious capability and the next process or processes to follow, after these processes are followed, the man, object is declared clean or unclean by the priest and will remain unclean until being declared clean again by the priest. The process of being delared clean is called cleansing(verse 2 of chapter 14) and can only be done if the unclean person or object has been healed of the desease (verse 3). If he has not been healed of the desease, the priest will continue to declare him unclean and the cleansing will not occur. These shows you that the ceremonial cleansing you are talking about is not part of the treatment or healing of a man or object with leprosy, for he must have been healed before such cleasing occur.

In the case of a house, verse 48 of lev chapter 14 states that the priest will examine the house to see if the plague has gone , if it is gone, the house is declared clean , if it is not gone, then house is destroyed. If the house is clean/healed, the ceremonial cleasing can begin , and if its not , then no cleansing can occur. These shows you that that cleasing is not a part of the healing proccess as such house cannot be cleansed unless it has been fully healed.
Verse 57 concludes the matter.
So pls next time, if you dnt understand the bible, just ask and it will be explained to you

@ op
You claim that the explanation giving in the bible about giants living during the time of the flood was fable and untrue. Can you tell us what ur religious books say on the height of adam when he was on earth. ? Is that not a myth too?

Empiree:
If i were you, i wont be waiting. I would pack and run before you return. Anyways, wait until I return.

I didnt even read his post. Part of your last post only caught my attention. I am not here to challenge his opinion.

Thank God you are not me , ill still wait to see if you will post ur dissagrement .

Pls read the post and give us ur opinion . I'm not saying you should challenge or support him, Just want to hear ur view on his postulations .

Empiree:
So you're saying Christianity is a law-free religion? Every religion has own rules, laws and punishments/penalties.

Unfortunately your bible disagrees with you. I disagree with you too.

Yea, it's true you dont have to but consequences lie in wait

Ill be waiting to hear more on ur dissagrements .

But first, what's ur opinion on the statements made by the person I replied. Is he right or is he wrong ?

eshbeewanna:
Your problem is that the moment they call your attention to the blunders in your bible you begin to look for excuses where there are none.Even if we agree that the bible gave a preventive measure.Is prinkling the blood of animal in your house a sensible way of preventing leprosy?Why did you christian not practise it today?You can never because you know is just a stupid idea that you can't sell to anyone in this modern world.
Please go and put your house in order before you start poke nosing into order people' affair.

you are still desperately attempting to hold on to ur wrong view. first I'm happy you agreed that the isrealites where taught these methods on how to prevent large scale occurrence from the disease, something you tried to hide in your initial post.
I did not tell you that sprinkling blood is a preventive method.

maybe you did not read my post well or you are deliberately refusing to read the whole chapter you claimed you got ur info from. at what point does the sprinkling of blood occur? before the discovery of leprosy or after actions have been taken to prevent it's spread and those actions have been delared successful?

is it not days after the success recorded in cleaning the house is confirmed that ceremonial purification occurs? in what way is that preventive other than to ceremonial declare that the house is now safe for habitation, as we well know that such ceremonial process will not occur if the house has not been checked and declared clean. and if after measures taking to clean the place proves unfruitful, then the house is pulled down and burnt.

Christians are not under obligation to practise the mosaic law. you are the one propagating the false idea and not the bible or Christians.

be truthful when you make statements, Don't be too desperate to find fault

POPdecorator:
pls show me dat lie

the lies are plainly,visibly and easily numbered in my first post.

POPdecorator:
u be comedian proof me wrong with buybullica verses

Oga, did you not read my post ?.
I said you lied about the bible, some of the things you said are not in the bible and you now want to look for lies that are not there, u funny o. Anyways continued analysis on ur lies, false propaganda , confusing and contradictory post will continue soon.