₦airaland Forum

peleson:
It then means Adam and Eve before eating the forbidden fruit would grow back their throats if cut?

Nop, they will die!

Birthday celebration has been a pagan celebration even before jesus came.

Worshipers of jehovah never celebrated birthdays

The Jews did not do it.

even though the mosaic scriptures listed several celebrations, birthdays was not one of them

The bible warns against adopting pagan dates and celebrations.

Jesus did not celebrate it

The disciples did not celebrate it

The early christians do not celebrate it even though they knew pagans celebrate it.

What calender do you use to count ur years, the hebrew, Islamic, gregorian or Julian calender? All are different with different shades of accuracy

Why do you mark years, why dnt you celebrate days instead, at least everyday is new and different.

dolphinheart:
Bible verses needed on these thread .

1.Verses that show or tell what part(s) of man goes to hell.

2.verses that show death as a spirit.

3. Verses that shows what happens to man when he dies

Questions
Thought the fire of hell was supposed to burn people forever and ever. How come they are now removed and thrown into another type of fire.?

Why is hell thrown into the lake of fire?

If jesus has taken the righteous people to heaven when he ascended, who are the righteous he is coming again to ressurect?

I thought judge should be in the last day, why is there seperation in the treatment of the dead before judgement.?

As in, what is the criteria for putting people in the good and bad part of hell since 1. They are not being judged yet and 2. The book detailing their life on earth has not been opened.?

Since people believe man is made up of three parts , soul, spirit and body, which parts goes to hell and what is its condition there. ?

Where is hell?

The bible says, apart from hell, the sea gave up those dead in it , does this mean that some people did not go to hell when they died? If not pls explain.

No one wants to answer these questions

malvisguy212:
thank you my good friend for this reply, she called christians clueless but she did not know how clueless her post is, if death is not a spirit then what is it?

Death is a condition, the inability of the body to maintain the life in it. If you cut someones throat, he bleeds and die!.

malvisguy212:
am sorry, I don't know how to quote post by post and also I don't like arguing a brother. I will just say less and go.

1. Jesus has two natures -- He is God
and man.
2. Each nature is full and complete --
He is fully God and fully man.
3. Each nature remains distinct.
4. Christ is only one Person.
5. Things that are true of only one
nature are nonetheless true of the
Person of Christ.
JESUS IS GOD
The bible teaches that Jesus is not just an ordinary man, He is divine in nature;
Titus 2:13
13 waiting for our blessed hope, the
appearing of the glory of our great
God and Savior Jesus Christ,

the book of Hebrews gives us God the Father's direct testimony about Christ: "But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O GOD, is forever and ever"
JESUS IS MAN
It should be obvious that if Jesus is God,
then He has always been God. There was a NEVER a time when He became God, for God is eternal. But Jesus has NOT always been man. John 1 say the word became flesh, the word is IMMATERIAL and he became flesh "MATERIAL" and scripture go on to say He made HIS dwellings among US (human). the points is this there is NO verse Jesus became God but there is verse were He became Man. Hope you understand? Infacte uptil TODAY as we speak, Jesus IS still fully man and fully God.

This is your questions:
9 if Jesus had two natures , pls can we
know what happened to his Godly nature
at his death? Where did that nature go
to?
Answer:
the nature went to sheol and hades to judge those who died before His coming,but the human nature remain in the grave and after 3days he ressurected.
10. What bible verse(s) tell us a spirit
cannot die?
Answer:
Spirit is eternal, spirit is immaterial,the bible never say spirit die, but it did say God can destroyed the soul to HELL
11. If Jesus has two natures and uses his
Godly nature to answer Godly request,
why is it that the Godly nature does not
know the answer to Godly questions
posed to him by his disciples.?
Answer:
which question and verse is it?

Maybe you misunderstood my request, I did not say you should quote my post but rather, use the numbering format in which the questions where asked. For example if you want to answer question 1, just type 1. And then ur view or answer. You do that for question 2 and the rest.

This is a discussion , not an argument.
I do not want us to digress to the issue of who jesus is, as i see it as a distraction from the issue of jesus spirit and where it went when it died. So let's stick to jesus spirit around the time of his death for now.


On Q 8.
I don't know if you attempted to answer the question in ur post or not . But if your view of the two natures of jesus is based on the premise that he was God before he became flesh, I will like you to add the verse I quoted in the question to ur explanation. The verse is Phil 2:7. Let's not ommit it when discussing number 8.
Added to number 8, does the (fully God) godly nature of jesus have the same authority as he had while he was in heaven and when he went back to heaven?

On Q 9.
You gave us ur view without using the bible to back it up. how do we know ur views are true as to where jesus went if you wunt tell us where in the bible such was written . Are you saying his natures went in different directions when he died?
Is sheol/hades different from the grave? Bible proof pls.
So pls you have to revisit question 9.


On Q 10.
So ur belief that the spirit is eternal is based on the statement that " the bible never said the spirit can die? Is there no bible verse to butress this view of the eternity of the spirit?

On Q 11.
These are the verses.
In mark 13:4 , jesus disciples asked him questions relating to when a particular event will happen. Jesus stated later that he does not know when the event will happen . Why does his Godly nature not know this .
Also a request was made to his Godly nature in matt 20: 20 -23 and he made them know that he is not in a position to grant that request. Why is that?

Pls you did not answer Q 1- 7 .

malvisguy212:
the mistake you are doing now is comparing Jesus and other prophet, Jesus has two nature, God and man, the bible make it clear "God is a spirit" a spirit cannot die meaning at the cross it was his human nature that is crying with pain. There is something you need to know about Jesus ministry, when you approach him as God you will have a Godly reply, peter called him God and Thomas called him God and Jesus reply was Godly reply and also on the cross , When the criminal make a request, he aknowleged Jesus as God by calling Him LORD and Jesus answer was in Godly response. That is how the TWO nature works , Jesus did not deny being human or God. So at the cross when he commit his spirit, it was his human nature.he went to hades ;
Acts 2:31
31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

Also this verse;
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins,
the righteous for the unrighteous, to
bring you to God. He was put to death in
the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19
After being made alive,[a] he went and
made proclamation to the imprisoned
spirits— 20 to those who were
disobedient long ago when God waited
patiently in the days of Noah while the
ark was being built. In it only a few
people, eight in all, were saved through
water,

He commit his spirit does not mean his spirit ascend to hell. Infacte some bible passage say he commend his spirit;
Luke 23:46
King James Bible
And when Jesus had cried with a loud
voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I
commend my spirit: and having said
thus, he gave up the ghost.

Sheol/hades was a realm with two
divisions a place of blessing and a
place of judgment ( Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27–31).

Pls, I deliberately numbered the questions so that mumble jumble answers will not occur, so that anybody reading the post can understand the answers to each one.

Do not look at my percieved mistake, do not pre-judge me, do not form a conclusion out of my questions while still not answering them.
If you cannot give answers in the format I asked them (numbering) , then pls don't reply and let me ask some one else .

This post beings futher questions

8.where in the bible is it stated that jesus had two natures at the same time? Is the Godly nature part/in/the spirit of jesus, or is his Godly nature seperate from his spirit?

What do understand by the statements in Phil 2:7?

9 if jesus had two natures , pls can we know what happened to his Godly nature at his death? Where did that nature go to?

10. What bible verse(s) tell us a spirit cannot die?

11. If jesus has two natures and uses his Godly nature to answer Godly request, why is it that the Godly nature does not know the answer to Godly questions posed to him by his disciples.?

Note: sheol/ hades is also hell right? . The bible verses you quoted does not say anything on divisions in hell. By the way , those bible verses made mention of the soul and not the spirit going into the realm of the dead. If jesus spirit did not go to God, where did it go? Note again, for at death the spirit leaves the soul, did jesus spirit and soul go to hell separately?

sportsmaster:
the issue of spirit,soul and body..Many do not understand it..


People have a wrong misconception like only the spirit of born again,the body and soul is the same way as though the person is not born again.

At the point of salvation,everything is now of God,both spirit soul and body

1thess5:23:-And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly:and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1cor 3:16
1cor 6:19 "know ye not that ur BODY is the Temple of the HOLY GHOST and ye are not your own"
20 For ye are bought with a price;therefore glorify God in your body and in your Spirit which are God's
Also see Rom12:1-2

In laymans terms, what is body, what is spirit, what is soul?

malvisguy212:
you ask a question and your canal mind cannot understand the truth when it was presented to you.

ALL what you wrote up there is wrong, seriously wrong!!!

You say this;
According to luke 23:46 , he says " father, into your hands i entrust MY SPIRIT" , huh , hope you know the father lives in heaven . That shows that the real spirit called Jesus went to the father in heaven the day he died .

This was Jesus prayer on the cross when dying And you assume God the father answer this prayer of Jesus? (a dying man on the cross) wrong, infacte God forsake Him on the cross,why? Because his spirit is not pure, He carry the sins of the world,
Isaiah 53:4-5
4
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace
was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

Verse four say WE considered him PUNISHED by God, the points is this, Jesus die on the cross for our sin and the bible make it clear that God cannot beholds sin ,so that prayer was rejected
Infacte when Jesus say "my God why has thou forsake me" this prayer prove my point.

Jesus did not deny ascended to the father, the reason he did not want Mary to touch him is because Jesus has already crucified the sins of the world and if Mary touch him will stain the PURITY of Jesus, infacte Mary could be killed because a sinner cannot come near the holy of holies.

Questions
1.If jesus spirit did not go to his God, where did it go to? At least it must go or stay somewhere if the mainstream teaching of spirit is true. Pls add scriptural proves.

3.If the spirit of jesus did not go to heaven cus he is not pure at the point of death, does that mean that no spirit has gone back to God cus they are all sinners ?

2.5 if jesus prayer was not answered cus he was not pure, is his promise to the thief beside him also not pure?

3. Was Stephens prayer answered at the point of his stoning?

4. Other prophets that were killed violently, where they also forsaken by God? Where are their spirits now.?

5 if Mary touching jesus will stain the purity of jesus, did the other disciples touch jesus, yes or no. Will these stain jesus purity?

6. What did jesus really mean when he said that he has not ascended to the father yet.

7. If humans are spirit in a body, when did the spirit enter the body ?.

dolphinheart:
Bible verses needed on these thread .

1.Verses that show or tell what part(s) of man goes to hell.

2.verses that show death as a spirit.

3. Verses that shows what happens to man when he dies

Questions
Thought the fire of hell was supposed to burn people forever and ever. How come they are now removed and thrown into another type of fire.?

Why is hell thrown into the lake of fire?

If jesus has taken the righteous people to heaven when he ascended, who are the righteous he is coming again to ressurect?

I thought judge should be in the last day, why is there seperation in the treatment of the dead before judgement.?

As in, what is the criteria for putting people in the good and bad part of hell since 1. They are not being judged yet and 2. The book detailing their life on earth has not been opened.?

Since people believe man is made up of three parts , soul, spirit and body, which parts goes to hell and what is its condition there. ?

Where is hell?

The bible says, apart from hell, the sea gave up those dead in it , does this mean that some people did not go to hell when they died? If not pls explain.

No one is answering my question o

Bible verses needed on these thread .

1.Verses that show or tell what part(s) of man goes to hell.

2.verses that show death as a spirit.

3. Verses that shows what happens to man when he dies

Questions
Thought the fire of hell was supposed to burn people forever and ever. How come they are now removed and thrown into another type of fire.?

Why is hell thrown into the lake of fire?

If jesus has taken the righteous people to heaven when he ascended, who are the righteous he is coming again to ressurect?

I thought judge should be in the last day, why is there seperation in the treatment of the dead before judgement.?

As in, what is the criteria for putting people in the good and bad part of hell since 1. They are not being judged yet and 2. The book detailing their life on earth has not been opened.?

Since people believe man is made up of three parts , soul, spirit and body, which parts goes to hell and what is its condition there. ?

Where is hell?

The bible says, apart from hell, the sea gave up those dead in it , does this mean that some people did not go to hell when they died? If not pls explain.

The bible says: "by their works you shall know them".

You'll know a church is not from God if it
1. Kills, discredit, attack source of livelihood, expels people who try to spread thAwee word of God to commoners by burning them, maiming them, telling lies about them.

2. Try to hide the bible from people.

3 associate with leaders of these world

4 support wars , crusades and even partakes in local wahala so as to have political power,grab lands and increase their earthly wealth.

5. Force entire tribes with the threat of death if they dnt accept their religion .

6. Hide phydophiles, child Molestors and rapists among its clergies for years just because they feel it might shame them.

7. Try desperately to cover up this atrocities by bribing , using political power and the respect people had for their body.

8. Claim self created titles that they hope will make people respect them.

9. Give false doctrines under the heading : tradition and fail to show proof.

The bible say : from these people fleeeeee!!!

ingenuity2014:
Dear Dolphinheart, be kind enough to say yes or no to my three questions, that's how I would understand what statement I made concerning their doctrine that was wrong. Thanks.

These has a simple solution , pls create a thread and invite me . Ill gladly use the scriptures to tell you what I believe in. I wunt do it on this thread.

ingenuity2014:
Please state in clear terms (yes/no)
1) Do you believe that there is a lake that burneth with fire and brimstone meant for unbelievers after the end of time?
2) Do you believe that the holyspirit is not a force?
3) Then, the fact that you underrate my Jesus, and say that He is angel Michael. That is a terrible blasphemy. Forgetting that in Genesis, the Godhead said, "Let us make man in our own image". You say that the conversation was between God and the heavenly beings, but, remember that in John 1:1-3, it was written, "In the beginning was the Word(Jesus) and the Word was with God and the WORD WAS GOD, Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." So, are you implying that Angel Michael created the world with God?

You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. I dont need to check www.jw.org cos I cant go checking/reading up all the doctrines in the world, that would only lead to vexation of my soul and deviation from the real truth. All I need to do is to study my bible, arm myself with the truth and if a particular doctrine/religion has a fundamental deviation from the truth, I move away from it.

I believe you should have asked , "what statement did I make concerning their doctrines that is wrong?." the issue is not what they believe in, but ur understanding of what they believe in which you wrongly understood in ur previous post.

The issue is not what they believe in , and I do not want to encourage that discussion on these thread as it will derail it. The op is talking about what one experiences when he/she attends thier gatherings and most have turned it to attacking what they believe in with their own wrong understanding of what they are really teaching.

U say you have the bible, use it to examine ur beliefs.

Barnabaseloka:
So where do you stand?

I dnt believe the "Mary, mother of God " doctrine/belief/teachings .
I found it contrary to what the bible teaches and an afterthought in the protection of the false doctrine of trinity.

Mary was told who she was going to give birth to in plain, simple, easy to understand, non mysterious terms and she was not told she will give birth to God.

Someone referred to "the woman " in Gen 3:15 as Mary . I asked who " the woman" in the immediate next verse is . Still no answer

ingenuity2014:
OP, I understand you perfectly. I have been to their meetings severally. Loved reading the Awake series, and still buy/recommend "Young People Ask, Questions that work" for some youths. But whenever I'm in their midst, I dont feel the presence of God, rather, I just feel i'm in the midst of nice religious people. This always take my mind to that scripture 2Tim3:5 ..."having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof". My problem with the organisation is that they underestimate the power of God. They dont believe in Christ's healing power, the gifts of the Holyspirit etc, and underrate the Holyspirit which they dont see as a person, despite the fact that whenever the Holyspirit was referred to in the bible. Christ used human qualifications, such as 'Him', 'Comforter', 'Helper', 'Teacher' etc. Rather, they say 'It' is a 'force'. That is a fundamental error, and you know what the bible says about one that underestimates or grieves the Holyspirit.

Also, Christ said it in several places that the Last day would be worse than what happened in Noah's days and to Sodom and Gomorrah, and specifically said that unbelievers will have a part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone which is the second death (Rev 21:, yet they say there is no second death. That once one dies, if the person was a believer (i.e, Jehova's witness), then he would reign on earth/paradise after armageddon, and only 144 people will reign with Christ in heaven. Then for the unbelievers, nothing happens to them, just that they wont resurrect to reign on earth or heaven. That is another fundamental error. If Christ could destroy the whole world with flood then, is it now the world has turned upside down that he cant destroy the unbelievers with eternal damnation. My prayer is that God should help each and everyone of us to understand his word and at last, to make heaven; and that God should help my Jehovah witness' friends to see the Light themselves, cos no amount of preaching can change their belief, just God's divine help.

You have a wrong understanding of their believes leading to wrong statements .
Visit www.jw.org to fully understand what they believe in . Also have ur bible at hand to crosscheck .

The Hebrew sha·maʹyim (always in the plural), which is rendered “heaven(s),” seems to have the basic sense of that which is high or lofty. Ps 103:11 Pr 25:3 Isa 55:9) Physical Heavens. The context usually provides sufficient information to determine which area of the physical heavens is meant. “The heaven(s)” may apply to the full range of earth’s atmosphere in which dew and frost form ( Ge 27:28; Job 38:29), the birds fly (De 4:17; Pr 30:19; Mt 6:26), the winds blow (Ps 78:26), lightning flashes (Lu 17:24), and the clouds float and drop their rain, snow, or hailstones ( Jos 10:11; 1Ki 18:45; Isa 55:10; Ac 14:17). “The sky” is sometimes meant, that is, the apparent or visual dome or vault arching over the earth.— Mt 16:1-3; Ac 1:10, 11.

Statements made so far
Mary, mother of God.
Mary , child of God .
Mary, queen in heaven
Mary , bride in heaven.

Ok , Mary is created by God to be his mother while still his child so that later she can be impregnated by him to be his queen while she is still a bride.

Pidgin : god create you ,come give you belle so you go be god mama, later god mama go be god queen (wife)as god mama don be him bride.

No wonder people who believe this doctrine say its a mystery and hide prove to its traditional source.

Syncan:
It baffles me the extent people can tend not to understand or even change the meaning of words just to stick to an opinion. A mother in the simplest sense is one who bore and gave birth to. Simple! You disclaim later, or acclaim later, does not change this fact.
Certain claims you make to prove your point bothers on calling Jesus irresponsible and that is completely wrong. If only you read my submission, you would have seen why Jesus kept calling her Woman.

Question: Why did Jesus kept addressing His mother as Woman,was it a sign of non-acknowledgement of her?

Answer: No. It was never a sign of non-acknowledgement, for even when He addressed her as Woman in Jn.2:4 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come", He still went ahead and turned water into wine, despite His hour not yet come.
Again, even when Jesus addressed her as Woman in Jn.19:26 "Woman, behold thy son!", It was to hand her over to His most beloved apostle, as He (Jesus) was dying.
Saying that Jesus refused to acknowledge her as his mother, continues to go against scriptures. for the writer of the gospel of John is the beloved apostle John. This apostle continued to call Mary His Mother through out the gospel, showing you that Jesus was not denying his Mother.
Jesus the great teacher was only acknowledging His mother Mary as the Woman of Gen 3:15. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel". This is indeed out of honour and never out of any form of disrespect. And this he did through out his life, for scripture never recorded Him calling her Mother, neither before nor during His public ministry, He always called her Woman, an acknowledgement of the fulfillment of the prophecy in her.

Your statement proves the following
Jesus after his baptism never acknowledge biblically Mary as his mother.
Whateva the concept is behind the word "woman" as used by jesus, it was not to acknowledge her as his mother, one was to chastise her for interfering in his work and to provide for her after his death(same way the apostles did other widows).
When jesus was told Mary was around and reference to mother was made, he told everybody there who his mother was.

In any clime, if a son calls the woman who gave birth to him "woman " it means that
1. That is the position he places her in the scheme of things.
2. He must be ready for a hot slap or serious argument that can only be resolved with an apology and recantation of that statement. If such recantation does not occur, then to the son , that woman is a woman like other women despite she being the one who gave birth to him .

Gen 3:16 . Gods talks to a woman , or "the woman" of Gen 3:15 who is she ?

On seed: who is/are the serpents seed. Are they his biological children?.
Add the answers to the concept of the "woman " in verse 15 being Mary and let's see how confusing things get .

What is trinity?

trinity has been confusing humans since the time the doctrine was adopted. Now the issue of Mary has increased the confusion.
Most believe the doctrine but cannot understand or explain it.
Some that can explain it have different understanding of it.
Some even explain their understanding to have different meanings.

Ask three people about trinity and two will come up with different explanations while the third will tell you its a mystery that humans can't phantom.

Who is God?
What is a God?

Is Mary being the mother of jesus only an earthly thing or it extends to the spirit realm?

myariks png ost=34537483:
In the book of 2 kings 2vs11, the bible made us to know that Elijah ascended up to heaven with a chariot of fire BUT in the book of john 3vs13, our Lord Jesus said nobody had ascended up to heaven except the son of man (Jesus) that came down from heaven where he was before. (MY QUESTION NOW IS THAT, What of Elijah that ascended up to heaven with a chariot of fire. ( I NEED AN ANSWER WITH BIBLE FACTS PLS).

the heaven mentioned in the case of Elijah is not the heaven where the spirit creature resides. The bible use the word heaven in describing deferent locations/circumstances /conditions.

Elijah cannot go to heaven in that condition cus
1.flesh and blood cannot enter heaven
2. man has not been redeemed yet,all they had then was a future hope
3 the bible tells us about Elijah activities on earth after the chariot incident.

Why yes of course. Why will i allow someone to go about poisoning my child's mind. why will I allow my children to be poisoned which Jewish conspiracies. And who told you there aren't Shia teachers at all? There are even Shia professors! But do you know that the taqiya (blatant lying to get to an end) you accuse muslims of practicing, it is actually the Shias that practice it and not actually muslims. I refuse to apologize that for us muslims religion is a lifestyle, it's not having Gods name on your lips but the idea doesn't go beyond that.


Shias are allowed to be teachers but not religious teachers. They are also free to teach THEIR children whatever they please.


Excellent! Seeing what the Shias are doing in Syria it's absolutely justified. Give them room and they will stab you in your sleep.



And if reforms are made after they are demanded, does that not signify a fair government? If what the people demand is given to them should they not be happy? I'm sure if the Saudis as a whole rise up to say they want a democratic system to rule them and not the royal system, even though the royal family might resist in the end there is nothing they can do. So far no such incidents seem probable to occur.



Compare what happened in Bahrain where the Shias indirectly control the government now to what is happening in Syria where the leader rigged the election and continues to use chemical weapons against children.



That just shows they are densely populated in the capital, not the whole of Yemen.



You asked for a difference or why they aren't muslims, I gave you one. But it's their whole ideology I'm against, and if you don't know or understand how crucial the difference in the way we offer our prayers are I don't think you're capable of understanding now.



Dude, if you're talking about Isis then you're talking about the monster their greed created, and it's about stopping it now and not playing the blame game.


You're being a bit ignorant here, both Iran and Iraq are Shia countries.




Of course, KSA supports the people and the majority while Iran supports the oppression of the people... Simple.

We can go on an on discussing the issues in the middle east without coming to a conclusion .

But my own points are based on facts. But first , I must say the following . Blaming non muslims for the problems in the middle east is wrong cus the middle east has been volatile, dangerous, violent killing ground long before the infidel influence came. It was even made worse by religious division.

Now to facts.

It is a fact that SA support the rebels in syria who are mainly sunni as against a shia led government.

It is a fact that SA support the ruling government in bahrain who are sunni as against the shia prostesters.

It is a fact that SA took these too aforementioned decisions at the time when tje crises has not escalated to these level.

It is a fact that SA supported Saddam , a sunni leader in his war against Iran , a shia government.

It is a fact that it is SA and other sunni monarchy that invited and supported the infidels in fighting Iraq and should take part of the blame when the infidels decided to attack again and also the later crises in Iraq.

It is a fact that the present peace in the peaceful areas in the middle east is being maintained by these infidels, and whole region will go up in flames if they ever leave.

It is a fact that , in syria , iraq and yemen now , muslims are killing muslims with the help of muslims who got and bought their weapons from infidels who they claim they hate.

My personal beliefs remains the same : 1.if the sects there have been peaceful with each other, the infidels guns would have been of no use.
2. The infidels should not have involved themselves in a religious war that has been on for centuries. they should have left them to continue massacreing each other untill one sect achieve total dominion.

That epistle ^^^^^^^ is a perfect example of how to reply but not to give an answer to thought provoking questions.

Why wunt an atheist remain where he is if his questions will not be answered.

KellamLeTorneau:
If you know without a doubt that 1+1=2 will you allow a teacher to teach your children otherwise?


Exactly, making reforms satisfy the citizens. Which means the citizens should be happy and they are until you can prove other wise.
.



And your proof is? The thing is they know they can't even if they try,


According to Wikipedia, I'll try to get a more reliable source later, Yemenis are divided into two principal Islamic religious groups: 50-55% Sunni and 42%-47%Shia.

The debate about sunni Shia is a long one even amongst muslims, I would expect you to understand. But the basic thing that makes muslims unique is the way we offer our prayer, Sunnis and Shias don't pray the same way, and to a Sunni like myself, that is enough to dent their faith. That's putting their innovations and mindless hatred aside.




No, like you mentioned earlier,the infidels are selfish and do what they do for their own gain, like in the case of Iraq, do you really think it was about terror? Who orchestrated 911? Who gave rise to Al Qaeda? It's mind rape, mate.

Interesting!!,what a world those saudis live in, a sect is in majority, the sect believe in a particular knowledge without doubt . because this sect believes there knowledge wholeheartedly , they stopped others from expressing and teaching there knowledge. Verry nice way to do things! Others cannot teach their knowledge (which they also know without doubt) cus you plenty pass them. What an irony! The most interesting part is they are not allowed to teach at all. Yet they are counted as citezens of that country but are treated as second class citezens cus of their religious beliefs.



If I'm to send my child to school based on my religious knowledge, ill send that child to a school were such knowledge are thaught , but I wunt stop others from teaching their own knowledge to their own children.




Sunni discriminate against shias working in the oil company and military , is that due to knowledge too?!!!



Making reforms satisfies the citezens who dnt like ur kind of goverment. You satisfy people who are initially not satified with your rulership. If people where happy, they wunt demand for reforms. It was the protest by the people that led to the reforms and the reforms will continue until things change for the better.



Now let's look at facts and why I said SA will try to keep sunnis in authority in bahrain .

The uprising, protest by the majority against the government due to oppression started at the same time in syria and bahrain. In syria the SA authorities sent money and weapons and support to the people who wanted to change the government. But in bahrain , the reverse is the case, they and fellow sunni ruled enclaves sent troops with weapons to protect the sunni goverment the majority of shias are trying to replace. That is doubble standard mate!
And as at last year, the sunni troops where still there.
Bahrains monarchy came from quatar and got power through the help of tribes in the Penisulla(present day SA), dnt you think SA will continue to help them maintain that rulership.




On yemeni population, do you think that the slight majority of sunni in yemen can give them total control in making decisions ? Absolutely no. Proof? The present rulers in the capital are shia.



So you are against shia muslims cus of how they pray, pls tell us How ur prophet told you to pray in ur holy book and let's see if the shia dnt follow it .



On Iraq. Before I answer ur questions, pls tell me
, is SA not in support of infidels action in Iraq?, providing logistic support in their attack on Iraq?
The infidels are selfish, but SA , Iran and other Muslim countries are more selfish .

SA gave millions of dollars to Iraq to help them in their fight against Iran , why will a muslim country help another Muslim country to fight another Muslim country? Cus they want sunni rulership .

In syria, SA is supporting one Muslim sect, while Iran is supporting another sect.why? Cus of need for selfish sectarian rulership. This selfish acts has led to the death of thousands of Muslim children and women. Two Muslim nations cannot sit on a table and workout peace between themselves.

KellamLeTorneau:
And how are the Shias treated in SA?

They do not practice democracy but the majority of their citizens are happy with their rule.

If the consensus agreement is the majority are happy with their rule, the minority against it are?

I like how you said "a part" .

And do you think if the people of Bahrain decide to change their rulers the Saudis can stop them? Please...

So far every estimate I've checked from pew research to Wikipedia to articles on bbc and cnn, they all seem to agree that the Sunnis make up the highest population. I don't even know where you got that funny idea that from. BTW, the Shias aren't actually muslims, but let's ignore that fact for now.

And finally, it seems you fail to understand that freedom from persecution is something that must be sort. Whatever it takes.

Do I need to tell you how shias are being treated in SA? Ill tell you one. Shias in SA are being persecuted in the education system, they are not allowed to be teachers.

You say the majority of citezens are happy with their rule, but they are presently making reforms to satisfy the citezens .

Yes, historical and present day facts shows that SA will try and prevent the shias from taking rulership in bahrain. Unless the infidels stop them from trying.

You checked the estimates ,pls tell us the population in percentage of shias and sunni in bahrain and yemen .

What fact proves the shia not to be a Muslim sect . Pls let's see ur fact. What makes the sunni a Muslim that the shia dnt do or accept.

Good to hear you say freedom from persecution must be sort at all cost. So dnt blame the infidels for helping the oppressed seek freedom in syria and other Muslim lands.

djdoxxx:
The Worst Part Of It All Is That Most Of Them Claim To Be Born Again Without Knowing The True Meaning Of It(the True Doctrine Of Born Again)... Christians Are A Confused Set Of Clueless Hypocritical Souls...Pity!

Dnt generalize, that some dnt understand does not mean that all dnt understand

adjoviomole:
Matt10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

Summarise dat passage.n if u can't ansa my 1st question are u an atheist or a muslim I wunt reply u anymore.

I asked you to show me immortality of the soul in the bible, you quoted a verse that says souls can be killed and destroyed. Those that not go contrary to ur statement that the soul is immortal? If soul is immortal , it can't be destroyed na! Abi no be so?.

If what you say is true, then you should not worry about atheist and muslims, just show them the truth from the bible and leave them to make their decisions.

So I ask you again to show me where the bible says the soul is immortal

adjoviomole:
You did not ansa my 1st question are u an atheist?yes he was immortal just like our souls are immortal with a mortal flesh dat died n was raised up from the dead to become an immortal flesh. What is it that u don't get? Ansa my 1st question ate u an atheist ? If not what religion?

pls show us where the bible says souls are immortal

KellamLeTorneau:
The Saudis do not practice democracy but it favors them. There are elected officials but the Monarchs control the country, yes. It's not democracy but the Saudis are satisfied with the royal family, the countries I mentioned are not satisfied with their system of government.

Also your claims about Bahrain are flawed considering elections have been holding and the Shias look to take over the country soon. Do you know it was the Sunnis that actually strengthened the Shias in Bahrain? There's nothing like dictatorship or oppression there. Also, Sunnis all estimations prove that Sunnis make up the majority in Yemen, the Shias have accepted and lived with that fact. As to your claims about elections in Syria, let's be serious, you honestly think a person like Assad will win a free election by a landslide? By 88% to be more precise? Lol! Everyone knows that election was rigged, part of the oppression I mentioned earlier. And you expect the people to stand by this? I accept the KSA will always support Sunnis over Shias but the Shias are at fault in these scenarios you've pointed out.

I like ur sweetalk, you did not make mention of how the shia are treated in SA, and that the monarchs got there power through violence. Its ok .

I dnt understand what you mean by the " Saudis do not practise democracy but it favours them " pls elaborate.

The Saudis are satisfied with the monarchy yet there is increase in the number of political prisoners . The Islamic human rights commission claim there are about 30,000 political prisoners without most being detained with charge or trial.
They are satisfied with the monarchy yet a part of its citezens are denied opportunity to work in certain aspects of the civil service such as in the military, education and petroleum.
Mate, I beg to differ .

The monarchy you claimed people are satisfied with kept on dethroning, killing, murdering each other up to the mordern time of 1975. Bet the murdering stopped due to the presence and influence of stronger infidels like the U.S in saudi territory and politics. I bet, if not for the strong military presence of the infidels in SA and in the region , the terrorist would probably be fighting for control of SA and mecca now like they did in times past when the black stone was taking from from region to region due to fighting among people of the same religion.

Most countries have issues between there citezens and the government and sometimes need to undergo a violent restructuring. But in the case of syria and yemen, SA is acting more like a catalyst to the violent process due to its interests , and that is making and keeping sunni rule at all cost .

Like you said The citezens of syria, yemen and bahrain are not satisfied with there government . Yet the SA intervened in two countries with the promotion of violence and did not intervene with violence in the third country, why? Cus the third country is sunni led.

If there is nothing like oppression in bahrain, why did the Arab spring take root there, why are there present reforms(used to difuse the growing riots) going on there. As you said, these present reforms has enabled the shia grow politicaly, but that they will take over, I dnt think so cus the sunni and SA wunt allow it.

If you think sunni are the majority in yemen, tell us the percentage and source for ur info.

In the case of syria, I like SA approach in solving the problem of election rigging .
They solve it by cooperating with infidels to create the largest refugee crises in the world , largest child death rate, hunger, humanitarian crises just because they felt one man rigged the elections.

KellamLeTorneau:
You know nothing about middle eastern politics do you? Syria is a Sunni majority country but the Shias control the country and oppress the Sunnis, clearly the Shia rule is against the wishes of majority of the people, the Shias run a sort of dictatorship, a democrat like you should appreciate that the KSA is against such acts. Yemen also another Sunni majority country elected a Sunni president but Shia rebels overthrew him, going against the wish of democracy and the wish of the people. There's no justification for bombing people but this is a good one. As for Iran, do you see the Sunnis trying to impose a Shia leader on them or other Shia countries like Azerbaijan? Think with your head mate, don't just speak out of the ignorance of hate.

Let's analyse ur post.

Syria is a majority sunni country(about 70%) and the shia control them and oppress them , thus SA supports the sunni in their fight against the shia.

Let's Take that SA policy to bahrain, another Muslim country. Bahrain is a predominantly shia country (between 60-70%) and its ruled by the sunnis. The shia in bahrain are oppressed before the Arab spring and up till now and at several times try to create an uprising to overthrow the sunni government. Pls tell me, why the SA has not intervened to support the shia here, at least they also claim oppression and they are in the majority. Can you see the conflict in SA policy? They interfere depending on which sect is ruling .

For several years, Saddam Hussein ( a minority sunni) got the support of SA in his rulership over the majority shia, abi no be so ?

Now to yemen , shia-sunni population is more or less equal, there is no clear majority .

The Syrian government is a democratically elected goverment, the sunnis and SA do not like the result, and thus the political wahala there escalated.
In yemen , the sunni leadership sought to change the constitution so that the sunni president can seek election for life, this was the start of its own political wahala. This result of these Wahala (shia rulership) was rejected by SA , hence the bombing in an attempt to restore sunni leadership.
The overthrown leadership in yemen is an interim govt and not a democratically elected govt like the Syrian govt.

Now let's go to democracy and oppression . SA does not practise democracy, how come dem dey fight over the democracy of another country, to the extent of bombing its citezens , the monarchy in SA came to power through violence Na.
On oppression . The shia in SA have been oppressed for a long time now, despite the fact that most of the countries wealth come from areas belonging to shia tribes. How can a country that oppresses its own minority be a champion for the oppressed in another country. These one tire me o.

Mate, the sunnis will not impose a shia government anywhere in the world, so ur question is faulty.

Some claim man is a spirit but he his encased housed in a body that has a soul. when jesus died, did the bible tell us his spirit went to hell?
Did God call man soul, spirit or flesh, or a combination of the three?. What is the soul, what part of man is the soul ?

KellamLeTorneau:
Well your post is full of ignorant claims I know an ignorant person like you can NEVER comprehend. But about KSA and Yemen, please can you bring proof of your claims that KSA is bombing civilians in Yemen because they are of a different sect. Please elaborate further.

Ignorant claim indeed! , well, you can say I'm ignorant because I dnt know that the Arabs never had Arab slaves or that the Europeans never had European or white slaves. If those facts are true, that there was no slave trade in the middle east, then I'm surely ignorant.

Ill elaborate with facts :
1. SA bombed yemen( a sovereign country)
2. SA bombings killed civilians and fighters.
3. SA bombing killed the houthi people.
4 SA bombings killed the houthi people who are mostly shia.
5. SA bombings did not kill yemenis that are sunni .
6. SA say they bombed cus they wanted to restore the former government (mainly sunni)and will not accept the houthi peoples goverment (mainly shia) cus they feel the houthi will be a proxy for the Iranians(shia superpower).

With those facts, its save to have the view that SA would not have bombed the houthis if they had been sunni trying to form a new goverment.
All the countries allied to this bombings are sunni governed countries.

SA supports sunni rebels in syria who try to overthrow a shia led government, but will not accept rebels in yemen who are overthrowing a sunni led government.