₦airaland Forum

eshbeewanna:
Please christians heed to these advice by your God in the Bible:


In the field of medicine, the Bible says in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53 - it gives a novel way for disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy…  disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy. It says that… ‘Take two birds, kill one bird, take wood, scale it - and the other living bird, dip it in water… and under running water - later on sprinkle the house 7 times with it. Sprinkle the house with blood to disinfect against plague of leprosy? You know blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, as well as toxin -

- The Bible also has a very good test for adultery - How to come to know a woman has committed adultery. In the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No..11 to 31, I’ll just say in brief, it says that… ‘The priest should take holy water in a vessel,  take dust from the floor, and put it into the vessel - And that is the bitter water ‘And after cursing it, give it to the woman And if the woman has committed adultery, after she drinks it, the curse will enter her body, the stomach will swell, the thigh will rot, and she shall be cursed by the people. If the woman has not committed adultery, she will remain clean and she will bear the seed. A novel method of identifying whether a woman has committed adultery or not. You know today in the world, there are thousands of cases pending in different parts of the world, in different courts of law - only on the assumption that someone has alleged that a woman has committed adultery.

In the field of ‘Diet and Nutrition’ lets analyse, what does the Bible say. The Bible says in the book of Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No.29, that… ‘God has given you all the herbs bearing seeds, the trees bearing fruits - those that bear seed, as meat for you.’ New International Version says… ‘The seed bearing plants, and the trees bearing fruits bearing seeds are food for you, all of them.’ Today, even a layman knows that there are several poisonous plants like wild berries, stritchi, datura, plants containing alkaloid, polyander, bacaipoid - that which if you ingest, if you eat there are high possibilities you may die. How come the Creator of the universe and the human beings, does not know, that if you have these plants, you will die. I hope you christians will start give these vegetarian diet to your household.

Sir, pls be truthful when you try to post something about others, the bible never propagated a cure for leprosy, but it makes directives clear as to how to prevent an epidemic among the camp of isrealites such as quarantine and periodic check on victims of leprosy. What you are desperately postulating as a medical process is just ceremorial cleansing done by the isrealites (not an injunction for the whole world)on both individuals and houses in which such case occured and in which the people involved have gone through the correct preventive process , thereby limiting the desease ability to spread. If you really want to talk about leprosy in the bible, why did u hold back all the other verses on leprosy . Probably you did not like the truthfulness of how to handle the desease mentioned there.

Why is it that when a discussion on the koran, hadith , Muslim belief is going on, some of you will start looking for things wey no lost inside the bible. Do you think that revealing bibles medical mistakes answers the question on islam medical postulations?
If defending some aspects of ur belief means to find fault in other belief s. Then your case is worse that someone who has decide to fly accross the "pillars of creation", e no go reach the end.

I'm enjoying the present discussion on the topic o, just which non- muslims will steer clear or not make provocative statements untill a decision/agreement is reached.

tmotmo:
Op will this be of help to your request:

Honor each other: "O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honor each other (not that you should despise one another). Indeed the most honorable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous." Chapter 49, Verse 13

God loves the kind: "God does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact God loves the equitable." Chapter 60, Verse 8

About Jesus: "And in their [the earlier prophets] footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the law that had come before him. We sent him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him, a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God." Chapter 5, Verse 46

Good and evil: "Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein, and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burden." Chapter 4, Verse 85

Reaction to evil: "Repel (evil) with what is better. Then will he, between whom and thee was hatred, become as it were thy friend and intimate. And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint." Chapter 41, Verse 34 and 35

Do good: "Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden (paradise) whose width is that of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous - Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity or in adversity, who restrain (their) anger and pardon (all) men - for God loves those who do good." Chapter 3, Verses 133-134

Reward for righteousness: "Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily, to them will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions." Chapter 16, Verse 97

Acts of compassion: "And what will explain to you what the steep path is? It is the freeing of a (slave) from bondage; or the giving of food in a day of famine to an orphan relative, or to a needy in distress. Then will he be of those who believe, enjoin fortitude and encourage kindness and compassion." Chapter 90, Verses 12-17

Nice one, but the op asked for peace based verses. Peace, expecially between muslims and non- muslims.
Examples of what the op wanted
Are Statements on how to make unconditonal peace, being a peacemaker, praying for peace, looking and searching for peace between muslims and non muslims

The op's issue starts with the fact that he is looking for something that cannot be found in the place where is looking for it and he can't come out empty handed.
Thus in such desperate attempts , he has decided to overlook the concept behind the story, the issues of translations and the real meaning of the words recorded.

Several translations use the word earth while others use ground or soil. Jesus was trying to tell tell them about the growth of the kindgom once it was planted on good soil, and to explain to them, he had to use what was familiar to them . The main point was to show them the difference in the result and size and speed of the seed being planted in relation to Gods kingdom(how small faith can achieve great results) . Though it was not recorded this way and the translators tried to use the best possible form to render those words in english, the concept still shows Jesus was probably telling them about the kingdom using an example of one of the smallest seed available to the people he was talking to. what the seed does after planting was the main focus of those that recorded that event.

Matthew 13: 31,32 and Luke 13: 18,19 will allow you come to a better understanding of what those who recorded the event where trying to say.
Reading the bible with a preset literal mindset will only bring out things like what the op presented.

POPdecorator:
Another embarrassing tale of biblical nonsense is the construction of the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11. According to the bogus legend, everyone on earth spoke the same language when the erection of the tower began. Because the people of earth had a great desire to catch a glimpse of God, they built this supposed tower intending to breach the sky. As God didn’t like the possibility of people spotting him, he confused their languages to prevent the architects from understanding one another. Unable to continue construction, everyone with different languages went separate ways.
This story is unfeasible formanyreasons. The first problem with the incredulous account is the incongruency of the common language theme. We know that many different languages existed centuries before the story’s setting around 2500-2000 BCE. Not only that, but another Pentateuch author had said Noah’s sons separated according to their own tongues in the previous chapter (Genesis 10). At the very least, we have a major timeline discrepancy in need of an acceptable resolution. Furthermore, the notion that nineteenth century man had the architectural knowledge to build a tower even a mile high is ridiculous. To fathom that a group of ignorant ancient Hebrews could make an equivalent accomplishment is ludicrous.
Interestingly, no divine inspiration is available as a possible excuse for the illogical story because God wasn’t siding with his people on this occasion! If he didn’t wish for the people to see him, he wouldn’t have provided the means for them to do so. Of course, the most obvious blunder is God’s supposed fear of us actually reaching him in the sky. To suggest that an omniscient god would destroy a building because he felt he was in danger of humans catching a glimpse of him is an equally ludicrous proposal. The aspects of this story once again go back to the ancient Hebrew belief that God eternally resided on top of a dome covering the earth. Since an omniscient deity would know that the people could not possibly reach him, he would not have stopped the tower’s construction for the specific reason provided by the Bible. The story cries of a myth.
We also have fanciful tales about giants roaming the earth during the Pentateuch era. There’s a lot of room for interpretation here because the exact nature of these mysterious giants is unknown. However, we understand that the Bible has them living both before and after the flood (Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33). Some Christians have argued these giants are the dinosaurs, but this proposed explanation fails to be consistent with the “flood caused the dinosaur extinction” hypothesis offered by others in the same crowd. While the text is most likely referring to a race of people, archaeologists have found no reliable evidence that these creatures existed. Given the track record of the Bible thus far, it’s reasonable to conclude that the Genesis giants are, at best, an exaggeration of an otherwise normal species of life

Bros, u still never stop this ur lie lie based propaganda. Stop lying, e no good!.

Lie 1: Which verse in Gen chap 11 tell u that the reason for building the tower was to have a glimpse of God.

Truth: the tower was being built as a center for false worship, the main instigator , nimrod was said to be against God. He wanted the tower to be very high so that in case of another flood, there can be a place for them to probably survive (according to their thinking and intelligence) . He also wanted to bring the people under him, in one place, in opposition to Gods directive that they should spread and fill the earth. So Bros, stop lying!

Lie 2: where did you learn that God confused the language of those people cus he did not like the possibility of those people spotting him.?

Truth: God directive was for people to spread over the earth and worship him, the people wanted otherwise, God showed them his own words will come to pass. He confused their language so as not to gather in false worship in one place under one tyrant.

Lie 3: you did not add proof to ur statement that several languages existed before the construction of the tower.

Your oyinbo wunt help hide the confusion you are trying to germinate. Which other author wrote the book of genesis.
In chapter 10 .
Does your reading of chapter 10 and 11 show you that there is a timetable to the events that is recorded there, or do you think all the events of chapter 10 Uccured before the events of chapter 11. I feel you know the truth , but decided to twist it for ur personal purpose.
In chapter 10 , the chronology mentioned the descendants of the three sons of Noah , the history span several hundreds of years after nimrod and the tower(remember , these people lived several hundred years at that time and one man can increase the population rapidly), it concludes each sons history by stating that those descendants moved according to their language and nation. the conclusion of these chronology of the the sons of Noah happened several hundred years after the tower incident.

How can we proof this, under hams chronology, in verse 8 ,nimrod was mentioned, and he was related to the start of the kingdom of Babel, the chronology continued to list descendants who lived for several hundred years before the concluding statement on their language was recorded.
. This descendants after nimrod already have their different languages due to the actions of the people during nimrods time, thus the need to spread around the earth according to their language, nation and people.

Let's continue on your false propaganda, the word heaven(s) as used in the bible have different meaning or geographical location , your not understanding the meanings is why you postulated the "sky" and "glimpse God" lie u posted.
Understanding the meaning of the word heaven is dependent on understanding the context in which those words where written. The birds fly in the heavens does not mean the birds are verry high up in the sky. And by the way, the people attempted, not that they succeded, which throws out ur lie on their inability to contruct the tower.
Ur lies will be further exposed in the next post

People sha!!! .
Dem ask for peaceful verse in the koran , some begin open bible!

Abi , op u don change the topic to violent parts ?!!! .

I still have a problem with muslims that quote the bible
1. They say the bible is from allah but the one we use is currupted, that is, there are some parts that is authentic and some part that is false. Then someone quotes a verse or verses he thinks depicts violence, if you ask him if those verses where authentic or man made, false alteration to the scriptures, he will keep quiet, change the topic or turn everything to abuse. Cus he knows fully well that accepting those verses as authentic will mean accepting that allah is a violent God. Not accepting those verses as authentic will make the person quoting it look stupid , cus you are trying to compare an authentic divine statement on violence of a religion with a false man made statement of another religion.

Well, those men where indeed astrologers from a pagan nation . Will God use astrologers to identify the birth of Christ?. Definitely no , as he has warned the isrealites not to patronize astrologers.
God did this announcement through angels who announced to the isrealite shephereds in the field and who thus went to look for jesus.

Is the star a natural phenomenom? Definitely no , as the star kept moving from point to point in the area of herods rule, natural stars can't move and stop and move again and stop again.
Furthermore , is was only idol worshipers that saw the star.

Is the star from God? Definitely no. The star was seen by magicians from a pagan nation, first directed them to an enemy, herod who wanted jesus dead. Unless you feel God does not know herods intentions then you can believe the star is from god.

How did the astrologers know a king is born? Bible prophesies written in that region has long indicated the birth of the messiah and they took it seriously. Remember those pagans in that region have great reverence for the God of the Jews cus of the truthfull prediction of the loss of their empire, the destruction of ninever and Babylon, the prediction of who will do it and the return of the Jews to their land.

Now I'm confused.

The issue has turned from :if someone was right or wrong in a statement attributed to him to if the person did say those words.

Some feel the prophet did say those things about camel urine and fly wings and are desperately looking for medical and scientific proof to back it up, will they ever find it?

Some view he did not say it and those words are fabricated. The question now is where do they now classify the hadiths where those words are found , and do their classification meet general acceptable procedures?

Some now say the prophet said it but he might be wrong as he is not a medical expert, just as he was wrong on planting of seeds as he is not an agricultural expert. So do we have to investigate any natural human development endeavor that the prophet had made comments on to see if he was right or wrong.?

Ill implore non-muslims to refrain from categorization, making derogatory comments on these thread. There are enough muslims on this thread, let us wait till they reach a conclusion on what the truth is. If they do , then others can make comment , if they dnt then......

Flytefalls:
The OP is quite aware, the OP has no issue conversing with all as she is not afraid, but the OP really doesn't want to get into a Bible Battle Royale here on NL, neither did the OP ask that JW supporters come in here to lecture her about how right it is that her mother is shunned. Grow a heart and recognise when somebody is not interested in how you view things.Have a good weekend.


If this issue doesn't bother you, don't make it out like it's nothing. Many people over the world would beg to differ. The support/materials I've gotten on this thread will help me get over it, so never will I say it wasn't worth the stress.

Remember I said I feel sad about the whole event, it pains me to see you say I should grow a heart.

The thread brought up three things , the feeling , the view and the opinion.

Few people on both sides are handling the feeling in ways I feel wunt help . What do those materials tell you about how to handle the situation, condenming those you feel caused it? Butressing ur own view about those who caused it? Associating with others or reclyning and finding solace from inside urself?. Those materials might only deepen ur resolve but wunt solve the feeling. And if you feel it will solve it, ill be glad to hear details. Likewise some on other side here too have forgotten about the feeling aspect and prefer getting into the views and opinion aspect, which you dnt want to discuss even though its part of the thread and also important.(I admit I also went into those aspects too but I feel it was because you aired ur views and opinion too)

When one is sad or in a somewhat negative emotional state caused by a situation, one tend to fight the cause, and probably accept any help or way out.
But a wise person (which I definitely believe you are ) will look at those ways out, those helping hands , will shift them out with questions and come to a conclusion on if the helpers(on both sides) offer real happiness or positive emotion from my sad or negative situation.

Some here just want you have a negative view of the organization and do not care what you really do to solve the issue. But remember,(and I know we both agree on these , its not a lecture or advise) that the way u solve these issue will go a long way in determining what you believe , ur beliefs , ur search for truth, ur happiness and eventual salvation.

@ AIBaqir . I hope ur post stops any further attempt to claim the correctness scientificaly or otherwise of those hadiths where the camel urine issue or fly wing cure are claimed.
So now What is to be done to those hadiths, pull it out the rank of authentic hadiths?


@others , modified extracts from components that make up animal poo is what in used as part of the make up of drugs. U dnt just swallow the whole poo or urine just because something good is in it ! Haba !

The thread is gradually being derailed. Sincerity in opinion and beliefs is being overshadowed by personal opinions . No one wants to use the bible as a bases for their beliefs and opinion. I've also asked some people on these thread questions they have parried away or are acting as if they did not see it.

What does the bible say about difellowshiping/ excommunication /shunning?

Do we have examples of such in the bible?

Are we using the actions of men, personal opinion and feelings as the bases of how we serve God .?

Does the op realise that not everybody supporting her view actually believe/support her view , actually believe the bible?

I believe half of the problem will be solved if we , the christians on these thread can use The scripture(bible) we believe in to first come to an agreement on how the pratice of shunning/ disfelowshipment of individuals should really be.

To me , if house fly land ontop my food, if I'm sure I can locate the part of the food it fell on , ill remove that part and throw it away. If I can't locate it and I dnt have any other food , ill remove all the top exposed part of the food.
I wunt deliberately swallow a known desease cus I feel the antitdote is in the wings.

Now my questions, is it scientifically proven that the antitdote is in the wings ?
Can those antitidotes work for man as it works for the flies without adjustment to the natural nature of the antidotes present in the wings of flies.

Man and flies have different biological makeup. viruses, bacterias dangerous to man can be harmless to flies and vice visa, antidotes that man use to cure deseases can be dangerous to flies and vice visa.

Flies use their so called antidotes in their so called wings to prevent diseases and not to cure them. But in human case , prophet moh was postulating a cure and not prevention which should have been a better postulation.

Anas09:
As I read this OP, I feel pressed down in my spirit because I sensed that's how u feel and your mother after somany yrs is still seriously affected by what these people are doing to her. Pls let me ask you. As you well know, its all about Christ. Have u seriously sort out time to ask Jesus for urself about this whole issue? I feel if u have, really have a good talk, I mean a good talk with Christ, this issue will sort itself out. If you find christ, you'll help lift ur mother up from the state she is right now. She has allowed men to use the same Jesus who died for us individually to torment her and make her life mesirable. See my dear sister, Ask God questions, I mean sincere heartfelt questions. He answers. God speaks. When u encounter him for urself, you'll see, if they put the whole of the world's jws or any organization for that matter together against you. You won't see them. You are still burdened by religion. Pls in ur closed fine christ. He is as real as the next person. Am telling you this because I know. Life takes us through stages. I was naturally a seeker on a quest. I almost became a jw, I had those pple studying with me for a long while until they brought one watch tower one sunday with some question that got me really thinking and I went into the bible for myself and saw the twist. I left them, and almost got initiated into one tibetan easten religion. It got to point I decided to ask jesus some questions, he answered, but it took a sincere longing and thirsty heart. Today, I stand on a solid ground, I know who christ is, its not a religion, is not a denomination. Its christ. So you know. For a period of ten yrs, I was not able to walk so I had no choice but to read and be alone a lot with my thoughts. I cried out he heard me, he answered by himself. He answers. Keep religion aside. Open up to him. Forget everyone, its just you and him. He can't talk to u outside of the bible. Don't go to him with a precieved notion of what u think. Cry out to him. He answers. He answered me. Now nothing in this world matters to me. I know who I am now. It has nothing to do with where I worship.

Oga, the answers she needs is in the bible, the solution to wateva issues she has is in the bible. Reading the bible with prayer to God for understanding . The bible is completely equipted for every good work, for understand , for reproving , for teaching, so that she can be fully competent.

Let me ask you: what does the bible say about dealing with a brother who becomes an apostate, a deliberate sinner or performs actions capable of distabilizing the congregation. Quote those verses out for us to see before you say some people are wrong and some right.

Pls what twist where in the watchtower, what watchtower, and how did you come to prove it was a twist.?

Flytefalls:
Found it! It was the first to appear hahahahahahaha. I don't think my search included 'pdf' yesterday, but I'm still ashamed of myself for not having tried . Thank you!

@JuanDeDios MyJoe is rapid fire! This thread is a treasure, thank you! His first post was fully loaded, this is some heel arching quality material!

Hey @dolphinheart, have a look at the text below. I do wonder what would happen if one approached an elder sincerely with the same question quoted, and used the watchtowers conflicting quotes to cite their confusion. I wonder if the current understanding of this prophet question is less wonky today? I wonder if these have been removed from the WT archives. I'll wander.

Don't wonder what will happen, take a step and approach them. Better still, why dnt you write the organization with your view since your issue is against the watchtower, and let's see what they will tell you.

I just wonder how someone seeking bible truth, who believes in God now aligns with someone who has contrary beliefs with her just because of her drive to make an organization belief look wrong or bad .
If you are sincere in knowing the truth, ask jayriginal what his own views are one the bible you believe in , and then on his view about the websites he is directing you to.

If you are really searching for the truth, pls ask him on this thread and let's see ur discussion.

I cannot comment on the wonder of ur post cus ill like to use the scripture as the bases of my discussion , which you have not approved of.

I do wonder, all these while you still have not stated the questions u asked the elders, their unsatisfactory answer and ur own view of the answer to the question up till now.

jayriginal:
So getting a higher education is a hindrance right?
You keep making my point.

Why do you keep side stepping my questions?

Papist:
I'm a Catholic and Catholics are only excommunicated for griveous sins. Excommunication simply means you cannot receive the Eucharist without confession. And most excommunications are automatic which means that Catholics themselves will not go to the altar to receive the Eucharist when they know that they have committed a grave sin like adultery. Public excommunications by the bishop or the pope are reserved for hardcore criminals like when the Pope recently announced the excommunication of members of the Italian mafia. Or when high ranking politicians are excommunicated by their bishops for publicly supporting abortion. But the excommunicated people are still allowed to attend Mass and fraternise with other Catholics.

What is ur idea of greveous sin?. Is fornication a greveois sin?
What does the eucharist mean?
What is the biblical reason/basis/source for excommunication by Catholics?

jayriginal:
It is not explicitly forbidden, it is discouraged.

As you said up there unwittingly buttressing my point, spiritual is placed over the material. You further agreed that this world is not yours. My point stands.

As a Christian , you seek first the kingdom of God and all other things will be added to you.
As a Christian , you are being commanded to provide for ur families spiritual, financial and mental development needs.

Tell me, how do you combine these in these present world.
What did jesus say about these world in relation to his followers?

Flytefalls:
If you are baptised, nowadays they will give you time to fade, but you will eventually have to make a decision. Do you know how condescending, ridiculous and pathetic it is to have one smarmy JW pay a visit to your house to talk a load of false truths because they meant well? Some people quit because they cannot stand this part of the 'fading' deal.

Brb tomorrow with the rest lol.

Sorry for the situation, but I feel you are now having or already have ur opinion that you are not ready to discuss with the use of the bible. And its only with the bible that I can contribute to this discussion.

I'm beginning to think ur opinion of religion is based on peoples thinking and behavior, and the organization does not meet ur expectations. So I'm sorry,pls dnt be vexed, but I have to leave unless you agree to discuss about what the bible say on ur views and mine and why you feel that my views does not conform to bible teachings.

jayriginal:
The watchtower organization is a cult. A strong one.

I'm an atheist, but I used to respect Jehovah's witnesses. I thought they were sincere and all that. I became close to one and that was when I decided to learn about them. I even attended some meetings. I was shocked.

If someone can come and share "experiences" and state in front of thousands that he gave up higher education to serve Jehovah because higher education is a trap from the devil that will derail and prevent him from doing Jehovah's work, there is something wrong. The young man was applauded.

Some lady came out to say that she left her job as it was a distraction. She learnt a trade instead. Is the trade not a job? She was applauded as well.

Of course their kingdom is not of this world, so they don't involve themselves in politics, don't go to war, etc. Other people are dying to make sure they are safe and they say they are not interested.

Anyways, the person I got close to, the family of the person shunned the person, even without the person being disfellowshipped. I think I should stop here. I'm getting worked up.

I'm glad you aren't in that cult and for what its worth, I can relate to your having issues when they found out you had a catholic boyfriend. Its in the secret manual.

Haba! Why take up part of what they say, expand it and leave the rest . Are you saying the organization say you must not get higher education ?
You want to cook rice and beans and you have put rice on the fire first before putting beans.

Jehovahs witnesses try their best to make u understand that their is a place for material things, spiritual things should come first, cus its the only thing that can give you evalasting life, a life where you can compare its existence with all the wealth you can ever make in this world.
They also encourage you to be hard working to be able to provide for urself and ur family.
As a servant of God, you are expected to make present an possible future life determining decisions. Questions like , what are my goals in life, how do I plan to achieve them, does my goals help me survive beyond this present system of things or just helps me to live this present system comfortably. Is higher education a confirmed and only way to achieve those goals.

All over the world , people who train themselves in handwork and acquire skills and who are hard working tend to get work and can feed themselves .they have time for themselves, family and spiritual growth cus they own their work and can arrange it to fit their other goals . The bible tells us about being good with the work of ur hands . People and companies always need people who have this skills so the posibility of earning an income to take care of ur vital needs of food, clothing and shelter can be more achieved with this skills.
Compare that to higher education , in nigeria we all know how the universities keep chunning out graduates at an increasing rate with no jobs for them to do . We keep seeing the resultant effect of those who lost there jobs and dnt have the skills apart from their certificate to start something by themselves. We keep seeing the longhours higher educated ones are being subjected to at work in other to meet targets, they dnt have time for family, children and spiritual things except to remember God on sunday. And if ur boss say u should come on sunday , then no spiritual activity that week. We keep seeing how the system keep demanding more education for ur to meet up to its rat race. U get bsc , they will demand masters, u get masters, the system will demand phd . If you dnt get it, others who have less family and spiritual goals will and will get ahead of you and ull probably get laid off.
We keep seeing how getting higher education keep getting more and more expensive and puts stress on people who are trying to get it for their wards.

If you feel that higher education is vital cus it makes it more possible to acquire wealth, an its vital to learning Gods word, then I leave you to it . But to some, acquisition of wealth is not there primary goal .

So if a witness say he or she has found way to Increase his service to God by finding an alternative method to taking care of himself and family apart from higher education, we are happy. And if a witness who has higher education say he has found a way to use his education to increase his service to jehovah , we are also happy.

Jehovahs witnesses follow bible examples. Did jesus or any of his disciples do politics or participate in political process?
Is the present political system part of Gods arrangement?
What does the bible say about mans ability to govern himself.?
Under who's power did the bible say the present system of things come under?.
What does jesus say about how you treat ur enemy?
What does the bible say about killings others?
What does the bible say about carrying weapons?
What does the bible say about treating anyone who sins deliberately, delibrately does things that goes against congregational teachings and biblical directives?.

Flytefalls:
I'm female, please .

If it gives you comfort, believe that she done something terrible. But she just wanted to leave. People are allowed to leave. If they happen to be baptized, then they are disfellowshipped. That's it. The spy was one person, but it was enough to get the elders talking to her. Perhaps because her family were (tbh they still are) so deeply embedded in the congregation, and almost treated like a model family, the elders thought they were helping her get back on track. When my mum said she wanted to leave, then she had a subsequent meeting with the judicial committee. They tried to convince her to stay, but her heart wasn't in it because she now felt their 'concern' for her was fickle and false. She wouldn't change her mind, so she was disfellowshipped. She's never given up on her faith in God, the Truth would make you lot think that every person disfellowshipped went through some major event and then were unrepentantly kicked out. Some people just leave. Accept it.

I have an uncle who stepped down from being an elder. He will never leave because it's all he has, but he still talks to my mum. Basically cried and apologised to my mum and her children for shunning us. This changed my attitude towards JW's. I'm not as angry with them anymore, I feel a lot of pity. A cousin who almost died due to no blood transfusion, her mum basically still in it by a thread as it's all she has too.

I'm not a troublemaker. I don't go out of my way to disrespect people who are actually helping me with my understanding. The answers given were unsatisfactory, pre-rehersed where I just wanted to discuss in real time, so I guess they left me to make my own decisions. But I couldn't help the feeling of being let down, they gave up on me waaay before I'd given up on them.

I'm really not interested in quoting verses here. Not at all I'm afraid. There is always an answer in the Bible but the understanding can be very different. JW's don't allow for independent thinkers, and that just won't do.

You are asking me about Catholicism because you want to tell me their faith is based on lies and they allow people to bathe in their own sins, worship Mary, and idolize the cross. I've heard it all and I'm bored of it. I am not a Catholic, but I go to their church. The people are much happier, and they don't spend their time slating Jehovah's Witnesses/other religions on a weekly basis.

Sorry for thinking you are male.

The whole situation does not give me any comfort.

Ill say it again, you are not disfellowshiped for leaving .
There are some cases where disfellowshipment have been reversed.

I'm sad you are not ready to discuss ur views with me using the bible as the base and guide.
I was wishing you could ask me those questions and we both use the bible to examine it .

I'm not trying to tell you anything about Catholics, its you that will decide the truthfullness of there teachings and actions. You have some knowledge about both religious organizations disciplinary procedures and its you that will decide which one really follow scriptural process in dealing with wrongdoers among them .

I believe you try to study the bible to worship our creator and other peoples feelings is not a determinant, its what I'm learning there that matters .

I had an accident on the lagos ibadan expressway , was rejected by the first three hospitals I was taking to. While looking for a hospital , It was my identification as one of jehovahs witneses that saved me cus the local brothers contacted ran around to finally get me to shagamu for first aid attention , I did not know them, they did not know me , but for the whole day till I was stabilized and my family arrived in the evening , they where there beside me, paying my bills, and making sure the doctors try there best so I survive. To me, those kind of act is better than knowing if people like me or not or if they are happy.
I was tranfered to luth for my operation, I rejected blood tranfusion even though I've lost a lot of blood . A man with similar situation as mine and whose bed was beside mine got his operation done before mine cus he agreed to blood transfusion . I finally got operated without blood and I survived . The man who took blood died from blood related complications three weeks later. I was ready to die on my beliefs knowing fully well that the God I'm trying to serve has the power to resurrect me and has promised me that if I serve him to the end , I will gain my life back.

Flytefalls:
My mum was seen talking to a group of men. She laughs when she tells me this, she doesn't even recall the conversation. It was nothing untoward and it lasted minutes. The JW spy went to the elders and she was summoned. That incident was one too many for my mum; she couldn't fathom a life where an innocent encounter would end up with justifying herself to the elders. So she adamantly requested to leave. She got DF'd. That's the whole story, she wasn't 20 years old. There isn't much to repent, and if anything, the shunning made certain of her resolve to distance herself from the religion. She would never go back.

I'm unconvinced this shunning business is God's directive, you could argue with me all day and chuck a Bible at me, but I'd remain unconvinced. Imo the truth will change its mind soon, shunning will be outdated as it continues to lose members.

Oh, I was just a study. Some JW family members convinced me to give it a try. Because I have other JW family/friends who've perhaps told me too much of their own problems, the veil fell from my eyes very quickly. I started questioning some teachings and perhaps they thought I was there to make trouble, but THEY ACTUALLY STOPPED MY STUDIES High spiritual standards? I honestly have no problem in saying they are devout to Jehovah, but they are too self-righteous.

Catholics are an assorted bunch, and that's reality. You have nice ones, forgettable ones and awful ones. Their sin is of no concern to me. The Truth tries too hard to make its members appear like sunshine to observers, they even kid themselves.

I have been given some brilliant recommendations, so I will be exploring that website given previously, and definitely reading the books recommended. I have to drive now, so sorry I cannot elaborate further. Maybe another time.

Sir , hope u no go vex for saying this, but I dnt think someone will be disfellowshiped for having an innocent conversation with a group of the opposite sex. Someone cannot be disfellowshiped based on the witness of just one person.

Though elders do not constitute a judicial committee unless there is a need to do so , but individual elders can perform their functions as shepherds in the congregation, they give advice, encouragement , and if they noticed a disturbing issue, they can talk to the person about it, but this is not a courthlike discussion. Another propable reason for discusing with her might be to know if the so called spy is not deliberately spreading false romours among the members of the congregation , an act that can affect the spiritual harmony in the congregation and should be nipped in the bud immediately.
For the normal thing for the so called spy to do is to approach you first and second time, and if you fail to solve the problem , then the elders can be approached.

They elders do this in respect to jesus order that they should watch over the flock. If an elder does this work wrongly, you can seek advice from someone else.

Ill like to ask the question, was she going to the study to worship God ? If yes, why does she allow other people actions stop her from worshiping God with them. ?

Sir, I also do not think they stopped ur teachings cus they felt u want to make trouble or cus of the questions u where asking , I might be because the person studying with you felt that you already know enough to decide if you want to be in the organization or not and ur actions shows u dnt want to. Pls where do you ask questions , during the study or during cogregational meetings?.

On the shunning issue . Would you reply with ur own view if I give u scriptural proof and examples . Ill quote the scripture and explain my view and ull reply with what you think that scripture is telling or teaching us, would that be ok by you?

Sir, my question is not based on who a catholic is, my question is based on what the catholic authority or church will do to someone caught sinning repeatedly. Eg someone caught having committed fornication for a while , not confessing his sins and he is now caught in the act .

Flytefalls:
The problem is this; scriptural proof is only valid if it fits within the current general Watchtower understanding. JW's will argue if it isn't written as so in their bible. The common ministerial servant on the corner will sneer at your reasonings because they believe themselves to possess "the truth". The unfortunate JW's who start to think independently begin to 'awaken' and fight their apostate ways of thinking. It's very sad, I've ceased even trying to discuss the bible with any of them.

Then on this thread , let's discuss ur own proof with other bible translations.
If someone sneers at you for wateva reason , that action is wrong and he is never thought to do that. It is advised you approach an elder to discuss the sneering issue for that brother to be corrected not to sneer again . A witness should always be reminded of this admonition: let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall.

Pls if there is something you now understand that is contrary to the teachings of the organization , pls let us discuss it. I'm not saying we should come to some agreement o !, but let us discuss some of ur views using the bible.

Flytefalls:
"If you are being disfellowshiped, then there is a high probability you have done something wrong"
My mum did nothing wrong (perhaps where she went wrong lies with being baptised in the first place, aged 16), she'd just decided the religion wasn't for her. This is the case with many people, they haven't lost their faith in God, just in that particular method of practicing their faith.

..and if you have not done something wrong, there is a process in which you can have the issue reassesed by others.
You will still be shunned if you are disfellowshipped. You will be disfellowshipped if you disagree with their teachings. If you happen to have been born into it, you are kind of screwed. Pretty awful thing to do to a person who had once devoted their life to it. I would be so bold as to call it a true evil.

1. What religious organization do u associate with now
2. Why are you dissolutioned .
1. I've been wandering for years. I am now attending the Catholic church, and you know what, I'm enjoying it. Less sniping, judgement, drama, fake smiles, etc . I have attended meetings in the past, quite extensively at one point. I was impressed to begin with, but the real truth came out when they found out I was dating a Catholic. That was a real ugly experience.
2. I'm having to deal with this JW ish again in my family. It's tiring.

On the issue of hypocricy, ill like the poster to tell us one of their hypocritical behavior , and we will see if its a general behavior associated with them or its just an individuals imperfect actions.
This question . Where would I begin. At times it is difficult to separate individual imperfection from flawed religious practice/foundations. This question gives me a headache, no lie

There are people who take there spiritual uprightness too far, looking at someone who made a mistake as if he is stained with poo. This to me is wrong and with time, the heart of those ones are corrected . If you look at those people as the bases for being dissolusioned , then stop cus its wrong .
Again, headache. I appreciate your response though, it's actually difficult to open up on this topic. It stings so so badly.

Sir, no one is disfellowshiped if he/she has not done something wrong . She will not be disfellowshiped for no longer associating with the congregation. But as this might be a personal matter, ill prefer we do not go into it.

Yes, personal and private association with you will cease if you being a brother gets disfellowshiped. If you see it as evil, then you see Gods directive in the bible concerning such issues as evil. And would prefer the spirit leaving the entire congregation.
If that shunning does not make you remoseful and attempt to repent and get back into the fold. Then its either you dnt want to be among them or u can't be among them irrespective of being giving birth to by parents who are in the organization . If David had followed the law and not emotion on absaloms issue, probably it would not have been his son who will sleep with his women later.

You did not give details as to the level of ur association with the organization, attending meetings does not make you a member. so I can't comment on that . But I find it not good to feel that their high spiritual standards could be seen as sniping , judgemental and fake smiles. If they change their attitude to you, its not because of who u are but what you have done wrong. But still, remember what I said about people who go overboard issues like this .
On the issue of the organization you now associate with, can you tell me what they do to someone caught sinning repeatedly, eg comitting fornication repeatedly and then being exposed?

Maybe you need to find out what the organization really say about the issues you are having problems with, and if their positions and actions are biblicaly right or wrong. www.jw.org can help out in this assessment. Find out what the bible says should be done to someone who goes against the teachings of the congregation , someone who commits sins , then come back and let's discuss it to see if ur reasons for believing something different from the organization is right or wrong.
By the way, I do presently like the way you discuss .

If anyone feels that the process of disfellowshipment is unblibical, let him give scriptural prove.

If anyone thinks that the process of accepting a disfellowshiped individual back into the congregation is unblibical, let him bring scriptural prove.