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I dnt know much about the quran until i started reading ifeann posts.

Initially read her threads with an open mind and with an expectation that some of her statements will be debunked and shown as false .
During the discusions in those threads, I realised that in some very few cases she probably(not sure) adjusted the words in the quran based on her own personal understanding of that part. this I deduced when I read what muslims have to say on those verses. But in most cases , I have a strong feeling that she is right in her postulations on islam. Why do I think she is right? Cus those against her post have not been able to debunk her posts. They have attacked her personality, other religions and the world in general,defended their morality by saying others do those bad things too, but still have not used their scriptures to prove her wrong in her assumptions.

The same reactions here on nairaland is the same reaction I get when I ask my Muslim friends questions based on her post .

My alfa friend (who is now wary of discusing religion with me) is saying someone is giving me false quotes and stories on the internet. But he always change the discussion when I ask him to prove that such info is false.

Maamin:
I still feel that Jesus is different from Michael.

I've not finished on my view yet Bro, will do that tomorow

I will back up my view on perfection with scriptural evidence when you tell me ur own view on perfect(ion) cus our scriptural understanding of that word might be different


Now let's look at the op's posts and look at the things I was accused of not looking into.



In the biblical account, God questioned adam and eve , and he passed judgement on their respective answer. This shows that the God of the bible is a God of justice, his judgement was based on their individual actions. The actions they took in eating the fruit caused their punishment to be proclaimed the way it was . Their punishment does not negate, alter or adjust what God said will happen to them if they eat the fruit. They will lose the life God gave them and the process of loosing such life is numerous. By their eating the fruit, they have decided to do away with Gods direct guidance and power and do things on their own(something man has shown to be incapable of). Since they where not created with this ability, the result was pain and different sorts of wahala which we see in the world today.
The bible has been consistent with the storyline of the event .
Adam was created and put into the garden. The purpose of eve s creation is also stated. adam and not eve was giving the instruction not to eat the fruit, and adam passed this instructions to eve. this is why Satan preffered to go eve and eve replied With "God has said" and not "God told me or us". U can notice that in passing judgement on adam , God said adam listened to his wife instead of to God .
What God said will happen to them, women being subjected to men, pain,sweat and death have also been consistent with todays reality. Which shows that the events as recorded in the bible are true.

Now u state that the quran said said that God forgave them and this means that he did not carry out his punishment of harm and Transgression.
Why did God still now send them out of the garden to face harm and transgression from that time till this moment if he has forgiving them.?
Or does it mean that even if they did not eat the fruit, they will still be sent to earth (driven out of Eden)in the condition they came in?
How come the resultant effect of disobeying God as recorded by the bible is being fufilled today.?
Is man created to perform some of the violent , painful acts it perfomed today from inception ?

What does the quran say as to the purpose of creating woman?

The quran did not state that the eve ate the fruit first , but the bible did , it explained the process and also explained
the consequences. A future prophesy which has been partially fufilled was revealed as a result of eve being deceived by Satan .



You are verry wrong about eves legacy, as pregnancy, menstruation and childbirth where all part of the makeup of a woman from creation, it does not delimit them as human beings or changes their role as God creatures, although some men have a wrong view of these and of their importance and role just as you claim that those who perpetuate violence in the name of ur God have a wrong view of the quran .
When a woman is pregnant,her body undergoes some changes, these changes are vital for a childs survival as the child will not survive if the changes does not occur and Gods command on pro-creation and filling the earth will not be possible.
Having a wrong view of these changes is wrong , so wateva any "saint Ivelivedbefore" or "st mywordsaretrue" say that goes contrary to the scriptures, it must be avoided.

You qouted Ecclesiastes 7:26-28 in ur attempt to showcase how u think the bible views women but you failed to realize the concept behind such statement.
Solomon was talking about the condition of a woman who is a snare and not all women , a woman who's heart is a trap.
The bible said that a woman was created as a compliment for man , a helper and not just for pro creation reasons, thus women have some qualities and makeup that are slightly more enhanced or repressed, totally different in structure and purpose, present in them and not in man ,or lacking in them and present in man, that enable them to compliment their men and perform what God created them for.
Women who missuse these qualities are described in similar words as Solomon described them and women who display good qualities are described as more precious than gold and other endearing qualities in numerous verses in the bible which you have failed to see.
Those verses does not condemn all women just like the numerous verses that talk about mens ruinous acts do not condemn all men.

I agree with Solomon on verse 28, there has only been one sinless man who has walked the earth out of all men (jesus) and no woman . Or does the quran give us an example of a woman who has not sinned. ?


You quoted Ecclesiasticus, I do not think its of divine origin so do not believe the quote. It might be a hebrew literature, but since its not added to the canons, it means its not inspired to the Jews.

The nine curses you say are listed by jewish rabbis have no link to the scriptures and because its the jewish rabbi that listed it does not mean its scriptural or it can be found in the bible. I find it had that you accept the claim of rabbi teachings which dnt have any reference to the bible , while at the same time reject hadiths which you view that its contents don't go in line with the koran.

The prayers of the present day Jews comfirms what jesus told the jewish religious leaders in his time, that they have added their own meaning and personal understanding to the law and teaching of the prophets . An example of these is on how they view and treat gentiles, they think one becomes unclean when he enters a gentiles home, something which their scriptures did not teach them .


To be continued .......

@ maamin

continued.
(2)
let's go back to Daniel.
After making the first reference
to Michael ( Da 10:13),
recorded a prophecy
reaching down to “the time of
the end” ( Da 11:40) and then
stated: “And during that time
Michael will stand up, the great
prince who is standing in behalf
of the sons of Daniel’s
people.” ( Da 12:1)
Pls note, Michael’s ‘standing up’
was to be associated with “a
time of distress such as has not
been made to occur since there
came to be a nation until that
time.” ( Da 12:1)
In Daniel’s prophecy, ‘standing
up’ frequently refers to the
action of a king, either taking up
his royal power or acting
effectively in his capacity as
king.
Daniel 11:2-4:
King James Bible
And now will I shew thee the
truth. Behold, there shall stand
up yet three kings in Persia;
and the fourth shall be far
richer than they all: and by his
strength through his riches he
shall stir up all against the
realm of Grecia.
And a mighty king shall stand
up, that shall rule with great
dominion, and do according to
his will.
And when he shall stand up,
his kingdom shall be broken,
and shall be divided toward the
four winds of heaven; and not to
his posterity, nor according to
his dominion which he ruled: for
his kingdom shall be plucked
uph.
Daniel 11:7:
King James Bible
But out of a branch of her
roots shall one stand up in his
estate, which shall come with
an army, and shall enter into
the fortress of the king of the
north, and shall deal against
them, and shall prevail:, even
for others beside those.
Daniel 11:16:
King James Bible
But he that cometh against him
shall do according to his own
will, and none shall stand
before him: and he shall stand
in the glorious land, which by
his hand shall be consumed.
(Also pls read verse 20, 21)
since Jesus is Jehovah’s
appointed King, commissioned
to destroy all the nations at
Har–Magedon. — Re 11:15;
16:14-16,and the book of
Revelation 12:7, 10, 12
specifically mentions Michael in
connection with the
establishment of God’s
Kingdom and links this event
with trouble for the earth: “And
war broke out in heaven:
Michael and his angels battled
with the dragon, and the dragon
and its angels battled. And I
heard a loud voice in heaven
say: ‘Now have come to pass
the salvation and the power and
the kingdom of our God and the
authority of his Christ, because
the accuser of our brothers has
been hurled down . . . On this
account be glad, you heavens
and you who reside in them!
Woe for the earth and for the
sea.’”
Jesus Christ is later
depicted as leading the
heavenly armies in war against
the nations of the earth. ( Re
19:11-16) This would mean a
period of distress for them,
which would logically be
included in the “time of distress”
that is associated with
Michael’s standing up. ( Da
12:1) Since the Son of God is to
fight the nations, it is only
reasonable that he was the one
who with his angels earlier
battled against the superhuman
dragon, Satan the
Devil, and his angels.

to be continued ......

basilico:
Abraham never fathered the Arabs. Ishmael married an Egyptian, settled in Paran and even attended His fathers burial. From Mecca? Never.
zThere is some serious debate about whether Abraham ever visited Mecca. Here read this.. Will make you wiser


http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16295

I do not believe the story that abraham visited mecca, at what age and for what reason? Dnt think he can travel about 2000km at that age to see a child that he himself threw out for What he did.
And Ishmael grew up in the wilderness of paran , but still very far away from mecca.

Ishmeal descendants became a strong fierce nations that spread from the paran both north and south to mecca and thus prophet mo could claim to be a descendant of one of the children of ishmeal, and if you are ishmeal descendant, then you are a child of abraham .
Being ishmaels child also gives prophet mo the chance to claim the prophecy of ishmeals hands being against that of his brothers, Isaacs descendants .

Maybe he thought that with his peoples fierce nature, a trait they took from ishmeal, and there hatred for there isrealite brothers, another trait from ishmeal , he would be able to conquer the jews. Unfortunately this has not come to pass, and I dnt think it will ever come to pass .

@ maamin
This is my view on jesus and angel Micheal.

Let me start by clearing away some terminologies

Angel : Both the Hebrew mal·ʼakhʹ and the Greek agʹge·los literally mean “messenger.”

Messenger: a person who carries a message or goes on an errand for another, especially as a matter of duty or business.
In short , a messenger is a person sent to do something by another person.
With the above, we can we rightfully now say that angels according to the bible are spirit(there nature) messengers of God. That they are spirit creatures who are sent by God to perform certain functions and also represent him ?
Two key words from the above explanation: spirit and messenger

Now is jesus a spirit in heaven? Definitely yes.

Does the bible ever tell use that jesus is sent by God to deliver messages and perform certain functions ? Ill say yes to that too , why ? Cus of the following scriptures.

John 6 :57
As the living Father hath sent
me, and I live by the Father: so
he that eateth me, even he
shall live by me.
(here jesus stated that the father sent him)


John 7 :16,17
Jesus answered them, and
said, My doctrine(teachings) is not mine, but his that sent me.
(jesus stated he was sent to pass on the message of the gospel )

John 12:50
I know that his command
leads to eternal life. So
whatever I say is just what the
Father has told me to say."
(jesus stated that the father told him what to say)

I bet you know john 3:16 and that verse that says he came to do not his will , but Gods will.

With the verses above and others not mentioned , we see jesus stating that he was sent by God to give us a message and to perform other duties such as the ransom sacrifice.

Therefore I think I'm correct to say that jesus , being a spirit in heaven before coming to earth and going back is a messenger of God that gave humans special/verry important messages and duties from and for God .

Analyse these with the definition of angel and come to ur own understanding.


While still looking into that pls add this :

Arch-angel : literally means chief agent. In the bible , it is never mentioned in plural form to signify that their is only one archangel (chief angel/oga patapata of the angels ).
I believe we can also say that the Arch angel is the chief messenger of God that performs special/ verry important messages and duties for God.


Now let's move on to some bible verses.

Daniel 10:13:
King James Bible
But the prince of the kingdom
of Persia withstood me one
and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and
I remained there with the kings
of Persia.

International Standard
Version
However, the prince of the
kingdom of Persia opposed
me for 21 days. Then all of a
sudden, Michael, one of the
chief angels, came to assist
me! I had been detained there
near the kings of Persia.


Daniel 10:21
New Living Translation
Meanwhile, I will tell you what
is written in the Book of Truth.
(No one helps me against these spirit princes except
Michael, your spirit prince.

Holman Christian Standard
Bible
No one has the courage to
support me against them
except Michael, your prince.
However, I will tell you what is
recorded in the book of truth.


Daniel 12:1 :
New International Version
"At that time Michael, the great
prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be
a time of distress such as has
not happened from the beginning of nations until then.
But at that time your people--
everyone whose name is found written in the book--will
be delivered.

Jude 9:
King James Bible
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil
he disputed about the body of
Moses, durst not bring against
him a railing accusation, but
said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Rev 12:7
King James Bible
And there was war in heaven:
Michael and his angels fought
against the dragon; and the
dragon fought and his angels,

From this verses above we can assume the following .
1. There is order and rank among the angels .
2. Michael is the leader of the angels , hence the most powerful in rank , power and authority.
3. Micheal is the foremost of the princes(he is a prince)

4.Micheal is the prince of jehovahs people and he is always standing on their behalf(the Jews in the OT and spiritual isreal in the NT)


Now let's dig further

Ex 23:20,21,23 :
King James Bible
Behold, I send an Angel before
thee, to keep thee in the way,
and to bring thee into the place
which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his
voice, provoke him not; for he
will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is
in him.
completely destroy them.
For mine Angel shall go before
thee, and bring thee in unto
the Amorites, and the Hittites,
and the Perizzites, and the
Canaanites, and the Hivites,
and the Jebusites: and I will
cut them off.

With the scriptures above , we can rightly say that an angel guided the isrealites into the promised land and stood on their behalf against the Egyptians and other more powerful nations,and that this angel is the angel of Daniels people mentioned earlier . Thus this angel is Micheal(who stands on behalf of Daniels people),who while being a prince of jehovahs people contented with Satan over moses body(Jude 9).

Look at Joshua 5:13-15:
When Joshua was near
Jerʹi·cho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand.(similar to jesus coming to wage war against Satan on earth) .
Joshua walked up to him and
asked: “Are you on our side or
on the side of our adversaries?”
To this he said: “No, but I have come as prince of Jehovah’s army.” With that Joshua fell with his face to the ground and prostrated himself and said to him: “What does my lord have to say to his servant?”
The prince of Jehovah’s
army replied to Joshua:
“Remove your sandals from
your feet, because the place
where you are standing is holy.”(similar to what an angel told moses at the burning bush)
At once Joshua did so.

Now let's look at who apostle paul called this powerful angel

In cor 10: 1-4 paul when talking about the isrealites and their journey from Egypt said :

King James Bible
Moreover, brethren, I would
not that ye should be ignorant,
how that all our fathers were
under the cloud(in reference to the angel that formed a cloud to protect and guide them during their journey), and all
passed through the sea;(in reference to the miracle of dividing the red sea ) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same
spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that
followed them: and that Rock
was Christ.

Now who did paul say was that spiritual rock that followed the isrealite during their journey ,that guided them and performs neccesary saving actions?

what did God call the spirit person that will guide the isrealite and that they should listen to and that his name is in him ? God called that person "an angel"

Pls read

Mad 3:1
Ex 3 :2
Acts 7: 30:31

Have not finished yet, will try to conclude in my next post

Maamin:
Thanks a lot, trust me I will mention you if there is any issue. May be you might like to check on this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/2239564/jehova-witnesses-want-join-church/2#32836019

I have seen the thread , but I viewed that the op was just looking for a way to argue and not discuss, he has been told what to do and the website to go to if he really wants to find answers to his question and become a jw.

But if you want my view on the issues raised by the op, I can post it on this thread for you to go through .

Maamin:
The soul and the spirit are not the same

I used it interchangeably as used in the bible. Even though our Bible uses the words soul and spirit interchangeably, there is a very distinct difference that we cannot ignore. These passages in God's Word that make a very clear distinction between the soul and the spirit:

Hebrews 4:12, "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

1 Thessalonians 5:23, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Here the bible made it known that the Spirit,soul and Body are distinct from each other.

The moment we accept Christ, our spirits become brand new. We are a completely new person, we are born of God, and we are made alive with God:

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

This is speaking of our spirits, which are instantly made new the moment we accept Christ.

The Bible even tells us that the old man in us has died with Christ, and that we are raised to new life through Christ's resurrection:

Romans 6:2-6, "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him (our spirits that were alive to sin), that the body of sin might be destroyed (speaking of the evil in our souls), that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Even though we have died to sin, and been raised to new life through Christ Jesus, our souls (that is, our minds) still need to be transformed and purified by the washing of the Word:

Ephesians 5:26, "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."

Our souls are NOT born again!

The Bible is clear that even though our spirits are born of incorruptible seed, our minds (souls) still need to be purified, that is, cleansed:

1 Peter 1:22-23, "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever."

Our spirit is instantly reborn and made new the moment we accept Christ, but the soul is not born again. Our souls are transformed by the renewing of our minds:

Romans 12:2, "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Some closing thoughts

Our spirits are made right with God, and raised to new life the moment we accept Jesus, but our souls (minds) can carry much spiritual grime and dirt over from our past lifestyles. Our souls are transformed by the renewing of our minds and by the washing of the Word, as the Bible makes clear. This is why so many believers can continue to struggle with sin even after accepting Christ. Their souls still contain grime and dirt that needs to be removed and washed clean.




How do you reconcile this with Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus?

These Christian sects believe that at death that awareness ceases until the resurrection. This belief fundamentally changes the theology around heaven, hell as well as reincarnation. The biblical authority quoted to support the belief is rather slim. In fact there is really only one scripture quoted. It is in Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. (KJV)

You can't get plainer than that. The Dead know nothing. End of story. However, there are plenty of scriptures in both the old and New Testament that show that the dead are aware after death. Is this an example of Biblical contradiction? Not really. this statement wasn't made by a prophet of God nor was is it a quote from God through an angel or prophet. It is the musings of King Solomon while being depressed. It is a rhetorical remark made by a man who cried "vanities of vanities all is vanities." He admits to drinking in excess, having a thousand wives and concubines and having every luxury imaginable yet ultimately found his life unfulfilling. He even concludes at the end of his writings...

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. NIV.

In 1 Samuel 28 we have the story of Saul secretly going to the witch of Endor so that he could contact the spirit of the dead prophet Samuel. This of course is a forbidden art, not because it can't be done but that it is evil to contact the spirits of the dead using witchcraft. Despite the wickedness involved, Saul has the witch do the divination necessary to contact Samuel. Samuel is summoned and has the following words for Saul.

15 Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" "I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do." 16 Samuel said, "Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy? 17 The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors-to David. 18 Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. 19 The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines."

If you read further in the story, the prophecy of the dead prophet turned out exactly as predicted. This shows us that the prophet Samuel was aware after death and was in contact with God even during death. Also Over a thousand years after the death of King Solomon, the Apostle John jouneyed to heaven in a vision and saw souls being aware they were dead. Specifically Revelations 6:9

"9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed."

In John's version he sees souls in heaven aware enough to know they were awaiting a new life with Christ.



Luke 16:19-31 (NIV)

The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In [HADES] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' 25 "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' 27 "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29 "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' 30 " 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' 31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Both Lazarus and the rich man were aware after death. Both were in Hades (Called Sheol in the Old Testament). One was with Abraham in the good part of Hades and the Rich man was in the bad part of Hades. The important point is that after death they did not cease to be aware. Death is simply the separation of the spirit from the body. Death is not completely non-awareness. I might be wrong tho!




Finally I got the jeck..with this site "http://biblelight.net/death.htm" it explain with great number of bible verses..i think your stands in the state of the dead is correct. Take your time to go through it.





I never said anyone goes to heaven immediately after death.

Anyways the link to a sight I posted up there throws more light on the state of the dead. Thanks for your time have really learnt a great deal.

Ok Bro, thanks, but if there is any issue you still like us to discuss, I'm free o .

@maamin

Maamin1



As you can see, when you make scriptural posts and support it with statements I don't agree with , I first of all explain my view on the scripture u posted and before backing it up with other scriptures, mostimes I try not to give derived analogy .I also tried to encourage the use of scriptures to support our views.

I've quoted several scriptures which at the point of reading this ur post and typing my response, u have not told me ur view on them .

When is ur view on the statement "man (the real individual, concious man is from dust as recorded in several places in the scriptures ?
What is ur view on the statement "man is flesh "as explained in several parts of the bible.?

U said "We are a spirit being, we live in a body and we possess a soul". Is there anywhere in the scriptures where that statement is being made? If there is pls let us see it.
U say we are spirit , but also say that when we die , we go to sheol and our spirit goes to God .
If we are spirits , pls can you explain to me with scriptural references that the spirit goes to sheol? Cus in several places in the scriptures, man goes to sheol when he dies.

Before I reply on ur view of the soul , it not being physical, what it consists of and the body being a vessel, pls add scriptural prove to the statement, not derived analysis o, but direct ones to prove ur point, and then we can look at it together.


On the issue of demons and possesion, ill first of all start by saying that unless acted upon by an external, powerful spirit force, what we think, how we think, our thought process is being guided and determined by what we physically feel, hear, touch, see, and smell.
You can't think about gold if you have not heard(physical) about the metal or metals in general. You dnt know what gold looks like if it has not been shown(physical ) to you. U dnt know what fufu taste like if you did not taste it (physical).
This knowledge of physical things are recorded in our brain(flesh) and can be lost or mis understood if anything happens to that part of the brain where the info is stored. This info is what we use in thinking, what we think about and the end result of our thinking process(conclusion ) which is also stored in our flesh.
This process can be affected in 3 ways, 1. by what our senses accumulate 2. By physical forces such as accidents and materials such as drugs that can run u mad or make u well and 3. By powerful and knowlegeable external spirit forces and powers such as the demons and angels.
This powerful spirit creatures who incidentally where present at our creation and know our make up can either feed ur brain spiritually with non physical experience that can force ur body to react or directly move ur body to do certain things.
Our spirit(and not spirits)is the force God gave man and animals(flesh) to be able to perform this mind functions of experiencing , processing and storing info. Demons and can use these power in us and animals to adjust our behavior or reaction to things. This explains what happened in Luke 13:11,
"And, behold, there was a
woman which had a spirit of
infirmity eighteen years, and
was bowed together, and could
in no wise lift up herself."
She cannot lift off herself cus her power to do such is being affected by a spirit creature


What is a soul can be seen from ur quote on genesis 2:7 . God made adam out of dust ,the statement did not say "God made a body for adam" but rather "adam (the man ) was made from dust. And he breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life and adam became a living soul. Adam was not giving a soul , but he (adam )is a soul which implies that a soul is a body(flesh) that is or has been activated/animated by a force , named the breathe or spirit. And if this breathe or spirit leaves the body through the process of death , such person will no longer be able to activate or sustain himself and thus decay .that why the bible says there is no knowledge or thinking or awareness in sheol cus the power /force which man (flesh) uses to activate these process is no longer there .

Wateva ur view is on how the spirit came into man and such process not mentioned of animals , the scriptures made it clear that the spirit in man(not spirits in man )and spirit in animals (not spirits in animals) is the same.
During the flood, it was explained to us that everything that has the breathe of life in it (both man and animals died)
This tells us that animals have spirit(breathe), the same one humans have too.
The bible also calls animals living souls just like adam was called .
The bible also helps us to understand that its the same eventuality that comes to both animal and man . So if you think that man is a spirit, has an imortal soul, pls tell us what you think might happen to the soul and spirits of animals when they die, since they must surely be somewhere.?

Maamin:
We are a spirit being, we live in a body and we possess a soul. The real person inside of us is our spirit. Our soul consists of our mind, will and emotions and as you can see this things are intangible(not physically sensed). Our bodies are obviously what we live in while we are here on earth(more like a vessel). How did demonic spirits vex and possess (control) people in the Bible? It was through their souls (minds, as in mental illness and insanity), and their bodies (as in the woman who had the spirit of infirmity).

Example of physical (bodily) demonic affliction: Luke 13:11, "And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself."

Example of mental (soul) demonic affliction: Matthew 17:15,18, "Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatic, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water... And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour."

Now, about if man was given a soul and when is not mentioned anywhere in the bible as our consciousness of who/what we are comes alongside with our awareness as humans. Talking about animals having the same spirit (breath of life) as man is true, but dont forget that the spirit of man was specially breathed into man by God..Genesis 2:7 "7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." or the bold can also be said "and man became living consciousness". You might have to do more study on your own as this Topic of soul,spirit and afterlife is very complex.



The bible made mention about the spirit returning to God who gave it but the body is to the earth where it was taking from. While nothing about the soul was spoken of specifically.

Will update you on this later..and your other response, duty calls.

Shalom!

Having issues with quoting , pasting and replying with my phone, seems I be novice on how to do it. I wunt be quoting u directly , but pls not that my peply to this particular post will be titled maamin1

Sanchez01:
There are more things to the Bible than mere understanding. Please note the word "Jewish" and "Judaic" then go online to do your research on how the popular books in the Bible was done

In other words, you dnt know who wrote the book you are qouting from and when it was written right?

Sanchez01:
@Biblespeaks, nice try but what you have written doesn't add up. True, Michael is an arch-angel but it is also right to say that he is NOT the only arch-angel around.There are quite a handful of arch-angels and I'll take my time to explain them to you. But take it off your mind that Jesus and Michael are one and the same.

The earliest reference to a system of seven archangels as a group appears to be in Enoch I (the Book of Enoch) which is not part of the Jewish Canon but is prevalent in the Judaic tradition, where they are named as GABRIEL, MICHAEL, RAPHAEL, URIEL, RAGUEL, REMIEL and SARAGAEL. While this book today is non-canonical in most Christian Churches, it was explicitly quoted in the New Testament (Letter of Jude 1:14-15) and by many of the early Church Fathers.

I must confess that I have no clue as to who is older between the fallen Lucifer and Michael but he is seen as the first created by God.

THE ARCH-ANGELS, NATURE and ROLES EXPLAINED

1. Michael : Meaning - "Who is like God", "Like unto God", "Who is like the Divine"
(Also known)
Beshter
Mika'il
Sabbathiel


The first Angel created by God, Michael is the leader of all the Archangels and is in charge of protection, courage, strength, truth and integrity. Michael protects us physically, emotionally and psychically. He also oversees the lightworker's life purpose. His chief function is to rid the earth and its inhabitants of the toxins associated with fear. Michael carries a flaming sword that he uses to cut through etheric cords and protects us from Satan and negative entities. When he's around you may see sparkles or flashes of bright blue or purple light. Call on Michael if you find yourself under psychic attack or if you feel you lack commitment, motivation and dedication to your beliefs, courage, direction, energy, vitality, self-esteem, worthiness. Michael helps us to realize our life's purpose and he's invaluable to lightworkers helping with protection, space clearing and spirit releasement.

Michael conquered the fallen Angel Satan, was in the Garden of Eden to teach Adam how to farm and care for his family, spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai and in 1950 he was canonized as Saint Michael, "the patron of Police Officers," because he helps with heroic deeds and bravery. Michael also has an incredible knack for fixing electrical and mechanical devices, including computers and automobiles. If your automobile breaks down, call on Michael.

Michael helps us to follow our truth without compromising our integrity and helps us to find our true natures and to be faithful to who we really are. Other times when you may find Michael helpful is when your job is too demanding with impossible deadlines to reach, when you have an addiction, if you're very ill and suffering from a degenerative disease or terminal illness and when you suffer from nightmares

Who wrote the book of enoch and when was it written

Anas09:
Funny enough, Abraham is not the father of Islam. Its a fabrication by Muslims to give Islam credibility. They tried to trace the Arabic geneology to Abraham, they failed. So, Abraham is not responsible for their wickedneSs. That said, I believe God permitted Islam in other to fulfil His prophecies, abt His people being persecuted. Jesus said to his followers, "A time will come that men will kill you believing they r doing a service to GOd" If the Muslims are not here, who will fulfil that prophecy. Other religions r not killing christians and Jews nah.so, do ur Math.

I believe that abraham fathered ishmeal, ishmeal is a forefather of the Arabs .
In the bible, the prophecy was made that Ishmael offsprings will always be against the ofsprings of Isaac , and we can see how the Arabs have been trying fervently to anihilate the Jews, right from prophet mo's time

@ maamin

My question

2.(a)does our creature tell us
what we(man/men) are?
(b) Let's say the bible teaches
us that man is made of three
different parts, which one
goes to hell, which one does
not and where do the rest go .

Your answer

Of course our creator tells us
exactly what we are..we are
from the dust and to the dust weshall all return, while the spirit
returns to God who gave it.
Gen.3:19 "19 In the sweat of thy
face shalt thou eat bread, till
thou return unto the ground; for
out of it wast thou taken: for
dust thou art, and unto dust
shalt thou return."
Ecc.3:20 "20 All go unto one
place; all are of the dust, and all
turn to dust again."
Ecc.12:7 "7 Then shall the dust
return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto
God who gave it."
This is all I can say through the
bible for now.

My response

You are right , God did directly tell us what we are . He said we are dust(sand/clay/ground) and not that we are spirits inhabiting a body .
Apart from the scriptures u quoted , there are several other scriptures in which our creature who knows what we are, refer to man as flesh(moulded from dust and scientificaly proven to be made from dust materials and water).

Gen 6:12
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted his way upon the
earth.

Isa 66:16
For by fire and by his sword
will the LORD plead with all
flesh: and the slain of the
LORD shall be many.

Luke 3:6
and all flesh will see the salvation of God.

Gen 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit
shall not always strive with
man, for that he also is flesh:
yet his days shall be an
hundred and twenty years.

Ps 78:39, Ps 103:13-15
With this numerous scriptures where our creature has told us what we are , its still a wonder why some say we are spirits.
The scriptures still went on to explain that the spirit in man ( which enabled man to become animate) is the same spirit that is in animals and often refered to as breathe or life force.
This brings us to the issue of soul, and my question to you is :what is soul?, was man giving a soul?, and if yes , when ?

You have not said anything on question 2b.




My question

3. If people where in the good
and bad side of hell, does it
not mean they have been
judged already? Why the
judgement later. Cus if I die
and I'm being put in one side
cus of my actions on earth , ill
definitely assume I've been
judged guilty or righteous
before my trial , abi no be so
. ?

Your answer

You are right but Heaven and
Hell are greatly Contrasted, I
still dont think any righteous
soul will go to Hell but rather
Sheol (place of the dead). You
can refer back to my answer to
your number 1.question

My response

Looking at your answer in question one and the one here, I realised its basically more on location of a person after he dies and not on when he is judged or pre-judged.
Changing of location from the bad part of sheol to hell does not mean there is a change in my judgement but rather a completion of the process of my judgement. And if this is so, then man is judged at the moment of death which goes contrary to ur view that man is judged later .so its either ur understanding of what happens when man dies is wrong or the bible is confused on the process of judgement.
Unless you state that there is a possibility of those in ur firery part of sheol can have an opportunity of entering heaven and not going to hell , then I think your explanation needs re -explanation

To be continued....

@maamin

Pls let us not add postulations or derived analogy in our discussion and let us stick to facts as presented by the scriptures.

My question

1. What does the bible say happens to us when we die/ when we go to sheol.

Ur answer
First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death believers’ souls/ spirits are taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified
bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of
this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ
immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.” At the
resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with
the soul/spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22).
Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, death means everlasting
punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and
eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged At the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation.
However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” (Luke 16:24).
Therefore, after death, a person. resides in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The
precise “location” of that eternal destiny is what changes.
Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth
(Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation
20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on
whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).



My response

To start with , there is an issue that has made me not to fully grasp ur explanation , and that is the use of the word "spirit/soul. What do you mean by "spirit/soul "? Does it mean "spirit and soul", "spirit or soul" or "spirit with soul"?is the spirit the same as the soul? If yes pls add bible prove and if no , can u tell us ur view of the difference?
Do the spirit and soul have the same eventuality , as in they go to the same place and experience the same condition after a mans death?

I read some scriptures in the bible and ill like you to respond to it if ur understanding is different from mine .
To me , this is What the bible say our condition will be when we die, I mean, what happens to man when he dies.

(Ecl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.)

This (to my understanding )explains that a man that is living knows that he will die, but the man that is dead knows nothing at all. so whichever part is the real man,or wherever it goes after death , it knows nothing! Talk less of experiencing any feeling in that place. If I'm wrong pls explain what that verse means when it said that the dead man knows nothing after death and relate it with ur view that he knows and experiences another condition and location when he dies.


(ecl 9:10 :Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.)

Some translations use sheol in place of grave here and so ill expect that sheol and grave mean the same thing and all men go there when they die. These verse helps me to understand that there is no work, device, knowledge, wisdom (some translation use reason, planning) in the grave/sheol where all humans , both good and bad, righteous or un-righteous go to when they die.
For a fact that it states that there is no knowledge in the grave, how do we align it with the view of people having knowledge of there condition in the grave ?


(Psalms 146:6
New American Standard
Bible

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.

King James Bible
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.)

Now this verse says when man dies , his spirit goes out , not that him himself goes out,the bible tells us that this spirit in man is same as the spirit in animals . He (the man himself that died )goes(returns) to the earth (where he came from ) and his thoughts perish, which to me means no more thinking in the grave. this goes contrary to ur view that people have experience in the grave/sheol.
Several other bible verses refer to this sheol as a place of darkness and silence and no mention of departments for good or bad people . Nor a place of prejudgement. The bible also says no one praise God in hell/sheol.

Now let's go. Back to ur explanation .

John 3:16, 18, 36, 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 Philippians 1:23 explains the way and process to everlasting life for,and what spirit anointed servants of God will gain when they serve God till the end . But those verses did not state when this will happen (this will be looked at when discusing resurection)

Now lets look at 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1
Thessalonians 4:13-17 to see if you are right with your analogy.as I qoute the verses ill be adding my view

1 Corinthians 15:50-54

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
(here says flesh and blood cannot inherit Gods kingdom , that means flesh and blood cannot enter heaven . How come u feel that at a later date that the resurrected body , which will be, Flesh and blood (based on your explanation with the use of the word physical body) will be inherit Gods kingdom.
My view is that whatever form man takes to heaven after resurrection, it wunt be in the physical flesh and blood.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(this verse is simply telling us that those going to heaven shall not all go to sheol. It means some of those going to heaven will fall asleep and go to sheol and some wunt. Note this secret was revealed after jesus has ascended into heaven, which means that after jesus went to heaven, some going to heaven are in sheol and are still going there after they die. This negates ur view that after jesus resurrection, the righteous do not go to sheol after death. Before u say its the body that goes to sheol, pls note that the bible never said the soul goes to heaven after death , but goes down to sheol and can only go to heaven after resurection, irespective of whether the resurrection is imediately after death or at a later date.
"but we shall all be changed" means that no matter your condition at the appointed time of resurrection ,dead or alive , u will be changed from a physical body to a spiritual ,glorified one that can enter heaven.

52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
(this explains the time and process at which the first resurrection will occur)

Verse 53,54: For this corruption must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on
immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(verse 44 explains this, which also nails your view of a physical body resurection at any time for those going to heaven)

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
( as at the time these verse was written , jesus has gone to heaven and those who believe in him are still in sheol and still going there when they die )

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in
Jesus will God bring with him.
(God will, future Occurence, not God has ,so for numerous years after jesus ascension to heaven , no one that dies has immediately ascended to heaven )

Verse 15,16,17 explains that jesus will come to take them, and not take them along when he was resurrected . Thus there is a time period in which those who died after jesus resurection will go to Sheol first and not immediately to heaven after death as postulated by you.

To be continued

Binb:
By "works" of God do you mean creatures of God? Are all creatures of God perfect too?

All Gods creative works are perfect . He is a perfect God, and his creation are created to serve his purpose perfectly . In the case of humans , he gave them free will to decide if the want to follow his perfect arrangement or they want to choose there own way.

@ ayoku777

My question

6.(a) Does if not mean that
humans can enter heaven
without jesus dying for us if
we believe that elijah and
enoch went to heaven ?

Ur answer
6.(a) Nobody was heaven
worthy until. Jesus gave us His
righteousness. We christians
have a bad habit of making
assumptions and saying
beyond what is written.
The bible said God took Enoch
and Elijah; and we went beyond
what is written to say God took
them to heaven. We are not
being fair with the word when
we make such assumptions
and draw such conclusions
All I know and all I said earlier is
that Enoch and Elijah were the
only two people who didn't
experience physical death or
go to sheol. Whether they went
to heaven or second heaven, or tenth heaven or not would be an assumption. And I can't be authoritative with an
assumption.

My response (merging 6,7,

I also do not believe that anyone has gone to heaven prior to jesus coming .
For enoch , you are right , enoch did not experience physical death but he did die .the bible did make reference to him dying or that he died. In heb 11:1-12 , reference is made of some of the faithful servants of God which Included enoch and verse 13 states that all those mentioned died in their faith.

For elijah , the bible did not state he when or how he died , but it makes reference to him performing his prophetic duty on earth years after the chariot episode .

In what way did he john come in the spirit and calling of elijah? Are you say elijah as a spirit came into the body of the man called john

@ayoku777

My question
3. If people where in the good
and bad side of hell, does it
not mean they have been
judged already? Why the
judgement later. Cus if I die
and I'm being put in one side
cus of my actions on earth , ill
definitely assume I've been
judged guilty or righteous
before my trial , abi no be so
. ?

Ur answer
3. And how do you know there
is no trial before one is sent into sheol? We don't know.
Secondly; the bible never said
there is only one judgment. The "later judgment" as you call it is only the final judgment.
As for why the later judgment.
Well the final judgment is when
people will receive the eternal
reward for their works done in
the flesh. They haven't received
it even at the point of sheol.



My response

I too have never had of man being judged twice, but the result of ur initial explanation means that man is being judged twice. first when he dies to determine which side of sheol he goes based on what he did on earth and later at your "later judgement".(pls where can I find the word " later judgement" in the bible?
Or the result of ur explanation throws another twist , that man is being judged once at the point of his death and sentencing or glory come later .
Whichever you think it is, pls add scriptural refference in ur response.
Note: I remember one sentence ," after death , judgement " and "not after death ,judgments"



My question
4. What is ressurection?


Ur answer
4. Resurrection is when the
dead are raised back to life, this
time unto immortality. It is when
the spirit and souls of the dead
come back to life in their
bodies; this time in immortal
bodies.

My response
Are u saying all of those ressurected after jesus ressurection will all have physical human bodies in heaven . Add prove pls

Why does the bible say that hell and hades will give up those them after the great tribulation when going by ur explanation, nobody is supposed to be there right now, talk less of later.



My question

5 where is moses, David and
all loyal servants of God that
lived before jesus at this
moment.

Ur answer
5. Obviously they will be in
heaven now, with every other
soul who heard and accepted
the gospel when Jesus went to
preach to the spirits in prison.

My response
When did the bible say this ressurection will or have occurred (add scriptural prove pls)


So those in the bad part of hell like Cain , nimrod etc , that died before jesus and did not know jesus , have an oppotunity to go to heaven if they accept jesus gospel that he came to preach to them . And those who where in the good side of hell can still go hell fire if they refuse jesus gospel in sheol right?

@ ayoku 777

My Question
1. What does the bible say
happens to us when we die/
when we go to sheol.

Ur answer
1. Well; before Christ died,
everyone (both good and bad)
went to sheol or hades. But
after Christ died Paul said
believers that sleep go to be
with the Lord.
So I believe that now, believers
go to heaven and only sinners
go to hades or sheol.

My response, I requested that the scriptures be used in ur explanations and answers to my questions but you have refused to do so .

Question is "what happens to man when he dies " and not "where he goes " . In other words, what is the condition of man when he dies?







My question
2.(a)does our creature tell us
what we(man/men) are?

Ur answer
2.(a) The bible talks about man
in the sense of spirit, soul and
body. But the Holy Spirit bears
witness with our spirit not our
soul or bodies; basically
because we are fundamentally
spirits.
So I believe, we are spirits, that
reside in a soul, that resides in
a body.

My response
Is there any verse in the bible that says we are made of soul , spirit and body ? Is there any verse that says "we are spirits in a body" ?
My question is not "what the bible tells about us" my question is based on What and if our creature directly say in the bible that we are(not analogical conclusions , but a direct statement(s) by God in the scriptures on what man is , or did our creature not say directly what man really is ?



My question
(b) Let's say the bible teaches
us that man is made of three
different parts, which one
goes to hell, which one does
not and where do the rest go .


Ur answer
Only the spirit and soul goes to
heaven or hell (sheol or hades)
but after the first and second
resurrection; the spirit, soul and
body will go to the kingdom of
God or the lake of fire
(gehenna). Until then the body
remains in the grave.

My response.
Pls add blibical prove to support or answer that the spirit and soul goes to sheol or hades .
What is the first and second resurrection and who will be ressurected (pls add scriptural prove)

Samneer:
Bro, never conclude one is lying until you have a sound evidence. I have mentioned it earlier (of course if you have read through all my posts you should have seen it) It was people like William Tyndale and the scholars of KJV bible that grouped the bible into verses.

As I have said, on the issue of manuscript (Erasmus Greek 1560 and Hebrew) of which I used translator, were the original one (evidences coming up soon). What Erasmus did was to compare the original text in Greek to the Church's LAtin version side by side of which later showed the contradictions. It was the same manuscript that landed him in house arrest in 1534 and was held under house arrest for 500 hundred days and was later burnt for what? for providing the people with the original manuscript (which opened the eyes of the people to lies of the papist authority at the time); the manuscript was used to for KJV bible. So tell me, which manuscript again? if not the deception of the devil.

And again your points are baseless

1. You did not answer the questions I asked.

2. List the scholars of kjv and let's see if they had anything to do with inserting verses and chapters in the english version of the scriptures.

3. There where english translations before the kjv, are u saying those translations did not put their translations in verses cus it was the scholars of kjv that first did it ?

4. Sorry for calling you a liar, but let's look at the evidence. You first said you have read the manuscript , now u are saying u used a translator . A translator created by someone or some people . You did not read the original manuscript, the original manuscript is in a language u dnt understand.

5. Are all available manuscripts same word for word?

6. What is the criteria used by the kjv to choose one manuscript Above the other.

7. Is the kjv translated from the earliest available manuscript ?

8 what will you do if after 200 years of popular use u find out that a verse should not be there, will u rearrage the verses or just omit the words in that verse.

9. Does the manuscripts used by the kjv not contain any error ?how do u prove its authenticity and accuracy ?

Samneer:
bro, your points are pointless and baseless. I am still going to address more on your point 1 and 2. @ the bolded; look at the blunder you just committed. Jesus Christ! like verses that leads people to salvation? verses about the deity of Christ!
Bro please read Galatians 1:6-9 not for the number of verses but omissions Also read Revelation 22:18-19.
Brb, for now duty calls

Shallom!

The content is not what we are discussing , what we are discussing is if those words should be there or not and how (if its there)it should be put there.

If I, living in the 12th century add the word "God is good" to any verse in the manuscript . Does the fact that other part of the manuscript read "god is good mean it can be added in another area or verse where it does not exist initially?

Other questions which you can add the answers to in ur reply.

Since you said you have read some of the manuscripts , which is a big lie anyway ,Does the earliest manuscripts have verses and chapters?

Does all the manuscripts correspond to each other word for word?

Did the kjv use the earliest available manuscripts (oldest manuscripts that are closer to the time the original was written and has less number of copyist thus reducing human error)that we have now ?

How do you differentiate and determine the right manuscript when sentences are found in one manuscript and not found in the other. ?

Emusan:
OK! The English word Jehovah comes from the inaccurate Latin word YEHOWAH formed by Martini a Catholic Monk, when he wrongly inserted three vowel into the Tetragrammaton of Divine name for God to form YEHOWAH.

So since the root word where Jehovah comes from is inaccurate then the derivative word Jehovah is inaccurate too though people have wrongly using it which you can also find in some versions like KJV, ASV but Scholars have said that this word have been wrongly used by those translation.

The astonish part is that JWs knew this yet they still went ahead to use the same word just because "...people's familiarity with it" and claimed they have RESTORED the Divine name.

Can you answer those questions I put to you now?
1. Has your organization TRULY RESTORED the DIVINE name of GOD?

2. Now will the MONK who FORMULATED this name before being translated into English be among the Little one or the holy ones?

So the word "jehovah " is fake, not real name of God in english language and should be discarded right? Ok o

By the way, which bible translation are u using ? Does it contain the name "jehovah " ?
Are we supposed to term as inacurate any translation that uses the word jehovah in its english translations?
Why is it now occuring more and more in many translations when scholars say its a fake word and its not the real name of God ?
To the questions
1. Yes
2.I dnt know , I dnt know the monk or what he did behind close doors, I cnt read the heart, and its not my job or my place or my ability to know who will be saved or which class they belong

@ ayoku777 and maamin

Questions
1. What does the bible say happens to us when we die/when we go to sheol.

2.(a)does our creature tell us what we(man/men) are?
(b) Let's say the bible teaches us that man is made of three different parts, which one goes to hell, which one does not and where do the rest go .

3. If people where in the good and bad side of hell, does it not mean they have been judged already? Why the judgement later. Cus if I die and I'm being put in one side cus of my actions on earth , ill definitely assume I've been judged guilty or righteous before my trial , abi no be so . ?

4. What is ressurection?

5 where is moses, David and all loyal servants of God that lived before jesus at this moment.

6.(a) Does if not mean that humans can enter heaven without jesus dying for us if we believe that elijah and enoch went to heaven ?
(b) if elijah and enoch could make it to heaven, there will be no need of sacrifice cus that means can be used by all to enter heaven right ?

7. Does elijah and enoch being in heaven not make jesus a liar when he said that "no one has ascended unto heaven ?

8 does the bible give us an idea that enoch died? And does it make mention of elijah being active as a prophet on earth after the chariot incident?

Other questions might come up later, but you can help to answer these questions for now. And pls add scriptural references to ur answers .

Emusan:
Sorry to ask you this, what is your problem?

If you can't read my post and draw your conclusion from it, please and please don't quote me again for goodness' sake.

Bro ,abeg no vex , but u fit just for my sake answer the question.

@ emusan
All I want to know is if we cant use in english the word "jehovah " as the divine name of the almighty God . in ur personal view, is it wrong to use that name ? For the benefit of laymen Like me, pls give us an answer

@op

Why some text in the kjv is different in some mordern translations


A number of Bible verses in the
King James Version of the New
Testament are not found in
recent Bible translations based
on modern critical texts. In the
early seventeenth century
printed Greek texts of the New
Testament depended on
manuscripts of the late
Byzantine text-type and with
minor variations contained what
is known as the Textus
Receptus.[137] With the
discovery of many early
manuscripts, most modern
textual scholars value the
evidence of manuscripts
belonging to the Alexandrian
family as better witnesses to the
original text of the biblical
authors,[138] without giving it,
or any family, automatic
preference.[139]

Source: wikipedia

The kjv was translated in the early 17th century with the copied manuscript and technology available and several other translations used the kjv as the basis for their own translation, hence the similarity .

But from the 20th century forward there where new developments
1. Older manuscripts that where closer to the time of the original manuscripts where discovered(such as the dead sea scrolls). and these manuscripts has less distortions or miss copying , hence a better understanding of the real texts. Thus newer translations try to remove in an increasing manner the mistakes made by the kjv .

2.technology has improved when it comes to manuscript analysis. For example , with technolgy it was noticed that some words/letters in some manuscripts where changed several hundred years after the manuscript was written . Some dots, dashes and lines where added to the Greek letters to change the whole sentence. This was discovered with mordern technology and changes are gradually being made in modern translations.
3. Unlike when the kjv was translated , the manuscript are now well available for most scholars to examine and thus a better view is being obtained. With the freedom of the scriptures for everone to read (which the church fathers have tried fervently to cutail so as to protect their fake high offices and false doctrine) old manuscripts can now be translated devoid of any pre doctrinal opinion, which has greatly affected bible translations.

Verses where omitted in some new traslations cus it will be total chaos to renumber verses .
The original manuscript where not written in verses, so renumbering the scriptures cus some verses where not supposed to be there will cause problems . The best option is to make the verses blank .

Lastly , dnt you find it interesting that some new versions of the kjv are gradually comforming to the translation of other modern versions

Binb:
How did you know that " prior to sin her body was perfect"

Because she was created by God .to God , all of his works are perfect