₦airaland Forum

Manchester United are struggling because their midfield play is too slow, according to Gary Neville.

David Moyes has presided over United's worst ever start to a Premier League season, having won just three of his first eight matches.

And Neville believes the problems stem from his former club being unable to replicate the fast, decisive midfield play which made them so formidable under Sir Alex Ferguson.

“There is still a sense that David Moyes is finding out about his players and his own way in the job,” Neville told reporters. “The key for me is that the speed of their game through the midfield is not quick enough.

“United have always been about those relentless waves of attacks, sustained for good periods without counter which would eventually overwhelm the opposition. Because this isn’t happening opponents have time to rest and recover between attacks.

“And it means teams are perhaps playing a few more attacking players against United and going into games with a bit more confidence than usual. Southampton certainly showed that in the first 20 minutes of the game.

“I have no doubt that David Moyes will be an excellent United manager. But for now he is having to endure some painful results.” (Source: goal.com)

elampiro: I didn't want to comment at all. But Starboard, how do you expect anyone to take your comments with fairness after you stated that Rooney plays too close to the defence for a number 10, and then again you accused him of not tracking back defensively? Even if anyone was to reason with you, you spoilt it by saying Rooney doesn't track back defensively. I don't understand that.

Also when did Rooney miss from 4 yards? Did I miss something in the match? Perhaps when rain freeze my decoder. Pls explain this 4 yards stuff.

What does RVP earn at United?

I didn't want to comment at all. But Starboard, how do you expect anyone to take your comments with fairness after you stated that Rooney plays too close to the defence for a number 10, and then again you accused him of not tracking back defensively? Even if anyone was to reason with you, you spoilt it by saying Rooney doesn't track back defensively. I don't understand that.

I saw that stuff a while ago. Don't associate such permutation with United. We are not Liverpool.

chamotex: Why not...nothing personal

Correct.

@Coogar, I only have one identity on nairaland. So stop the false accusation.

However, your stat are mostly ridiculous to me. You always show Rooney crosses and set pieces in charts but you never have showed that of RVP and Young. If Rooney takes 10 set plays and creates one or two goals and some assists, it is better than RVP who takes 5 or 7 without any assist or goals from such set pieces. I won't even mention Young.

You have to balance your analysis. I can always predict you will bring out those comedic charts. I saw somewhere here a while ago where someone used chart to put Chicha above Rooney and RVP. It is also possible to put Chicha above Messi and Ronaldo on national productivity. I guess if some of you guys were to chose an 11 side based on national team performance, chicha will strike ahead of Messi, Ronaldo, RVP, Falcao, Lewandowsky and Aguero.

chamotex: How does this even make sense to you?
Like how old are you?

All these beer parlour analysts

Can you join me for a bottle and some mamaput? Ishewu and Okwobi tins. Oh! We dropped points, no entertainment for now.

Somebody said Pogba had scored. I changed channel to see this Pogba sef. I met score at 2-0 in favour of Juve in the second half. Within minutes and before I could search out Pogba on the pitch, Fiorentina had overran Juve midfield and defence.

As we speak it is 4rentina (4) 2ventus (2).

When Rooney plays for England, he doesn't falls deep to the midfield as such as compared to the way he does for United. It goes to tell the weakness of our midfield. With Lampard, Gerald and co, anyone will be comfortable staying in the striking position almost all the time.

Anyone blaming Rooney for missing one on one? Hope they have their memories fresh on recent occurrences.

Xsailor, go and watch the match and see how much these guys can exaggerate things. The problem here is when people don't say things objectively. If I didn't see the match and had to rely on comments here, it would had appeared Rooney didn't do well at all. Rooney presence was far better than Welbeck and Giggs put together. Rooney was always well positioned to be put through, but the clueless Welbeck didn't know when to release a pass.

Even RVP is guilty of some kind of accusation against Rooney. RVP delayed a pass that should also had put Rooney through on goal and he was marginally caught offside. Rooney too had a problem in passing the ball between men. However, it was not as bad as reported here.

Honestly I want Rooney to be doing far more because I know he has the ability, but any criticism I have against him on this thread will be withheld or softened because of the obvious hatred for him here.

What! Father Lord thank you for saving me from the spirit of argument on this thread. Look at what they have been arguing about. Someone will soon argue that Opabunmi has ball sense more than Beckham.

..............

Reading backwards, anyone who didn't watch the match would be made to believe from Montelik that Rooney did not make any positive contribution in the match. How many times did he actually give the ball away in the dangerous area?

I couldn't imagine that a supposed United fan celebrated Southampton's equalizer all in the name of sentiments and gathering points for arguments. Wow! It is evil for anyone to have wished that Southampton equalized so that he could prove a point in his argument. This goes to show the level of loyalty or 'illoyalty'. Such a person will still call himself a Manchester United fan? They are really not United fans but fans of the imaginary football they wish or dream that Man United should play. To them, Pogba, Obertan, Morrison, Eagles, Chicharito, Berbatov, Young and Anderson should be the ones starting our midfield and attack. They are so attached to putting these pieces in their fantasy/imaginary Man United team that they are so removed from reality and as such they can't analyzed a simple match. All I see is Rooney mess , Rooney shit, Rooney pee.

This thread should be named Man United antiRooney thread.

There is a cult here and some people don't have a word of their own except to align with Coogar on the 98% of the time. I know three guys who would join Coogar even if he were to argue that Justin Bebier and Usain Bolt would have been Old Trafford heroes had SAF been sensible enough to invite and play them in a run of games.

The interest of this cult and its ideologies are highly protected by the moderator who sends annoying spambot to hunt down any one with contrary opinion.

I remember having an argument with a guy sometime past. He said SAF was against black players. I told him of York, Cole, Ince, Anderson, Evra and the rest. He said no, SAF is acually against African players. I reminded him of Fortune and the purchase of Mikel. The guy said Fortune was not given a run of games to really establish himself.

What a comedy some fans really are:





...............
********************************
My opinion on yesterday's match.

We were comfortable and looked like it was a matter of time before we score again until Giggs came in for Nani and we suddenly became weak on the right. Instead of causing threat on the right, we were suddenly been overrun.

I honestly felt the first change should have been Kagawa for Janujaz, the young lad was tired from the 65th minute and was never again making himself available for passes.

When I saw Moyes leaving out Valencia, I knew he was looking at the UCL. With Valencia, Giggs would never have come in.

Rooney should never have left the field when we had just a slim lead. Despite giving the ball away twice in dangerous area and thrice in the final third, he was very vital to our attacking threat. He was involved in virtually all the threats. His fantastic run gave us the goal and he was unlucky to have hit the bar. Although he was expected to have scored on a face to face with the goalkeeper, his outpacing of the defender was nevertheless praiseworthy and it led to a goal. You don't take away a player who could help see off the match in the final 10 minutes. I mentioned this the last time but people misunderstood me. Rooney makes himself available for the ball, and it helps to run the time with few minutes left.

Welbeck doesn't know when to pass or dribble or shoot. He could have put Rooney through on a clear one on one with the goalkeeper.

Southampton has only conceded three goals from 8 matches. They are hard to tear apart. We were not lucky to have run away with at least 2 or 3 goals. I also thought our defence did extremely well until the changes which exposed us. Fellaini may have had a poor day, but he was somewhat an obstacle to Southampton than Giggs.

*** Let me argue as some guys would do had it been the reversed that happened:

Is anyone blaming Rooney for the loss of 2 points? What was the score when he left the field? Rooney was the only one who won 3 points against a defensive disciplined Southampton side yesterday, the rest 13 players got a draw or loss.


***Defence:

The last four men were great until the substitutions. They were swift, athletic and well coordinated. They were hard to beat and prevented the opponents from entering our box. It is our best defense outing so far except for the Leverkusen game.

***Substitutions:

It shoud have been (a) Kagawa for Janujaz before 70th minute to allow fluent exchange of passes between Rooney, Kagawa, Carrick and Evra
(b) settle the midfield probem by bringing in Smalling for Fellaini, Smalling moves to defence while Jones paired Carrick in the midfield. Or Push Rooney to midfield while Welbeck comes in for Fellaini.

***Selection:

Valencia and Vidic should have made the bench. Had Valencia been on the bench, Giggs should never have come in. With Valencia's magnificent performance against Uruguay, he showed how much he can be vital to a team, but Moyes had a UCL in sight.
Had Vidic been around in the last few minutes instead of Smalling, I can argue he would have headed that ball away instead of allowing it to drop to an opponent's foot.

***Fellaini:

I don't know what's the problem with Cleverley, I wished he was on the field. However, Fellaini may have been our worst player, but his presence (on and off the ball positions) was an obstruction to Southampton smooth transition of the ball. Even though he was beaten several times, his direct approach to tackles was a positive attitude, that enable his team mates to recover. If he is trained to be firm and win tackles together with some speed to his game, he will be fine. Speed was my only worry about him before he arrived Old Trafford.


***Moyes:

His overall game tactics is improving. We have started creating chances while transiting the ball faster as compared to our early games. His substitutions were not only poor but shocking. However, I believe he will still click. It was hard for Macini to finally find rhythm for Man City. Every team has strengthen from last season.

***The Immediate Future:

11 points in 8 matches for Man United. Shocking! We are lucky not to be more than 10 points behind the top three teams. With 30 more games to play, we can push towards the top four until December. Then before playing the big teams again, we can strengthen in January to ensure we finish decently by May among the top three. It is very possible.

*** I expect some guys to react to my opinion, but I am not to argue again. Una kpele o.

Go to church, stop arguing football.

Stop this comedy already.

Moderator, you may send your spambot to ban me for 24 hours. Infact I need a spambot that can take me out for life out of this comedy section of nairaland sports. It is more addictive than smoking cigarette. Unless you quit, you won't know.

* The substitutions were badly planned.

Giggs coming in meant we lost pace and became less potent.
Fellaini was extremely poor, but the best that should have happened was to pull Rooney to midfield if at all Fellaini was to go out. The bench was without good midfield subs.
Rooney may have lost possession a couple of times, but you don't sub such players who are always vital in team play when you are just one goal up. Rooney always makes his self available for passes and such players will see through the slim victory.

* Sub that should have worked.
Janujaz looked tired at 65 minute upward. Kagawa should have been in for him.
Fellaini, only Cleverley could have worked but he was not available. So may be Rooney should have been dropped to midfield while Kagawa or Welbeck come in for Fellaini.
Nani substitution was a mistake. It could have been okay had Valencia not been rested.

* Welbeck doesn't know when to pass or dribble or shoot. He and Sturridge were so immature for England during the break and Welbeck continued from there.

* We are now dropping cheap points at home. Perhaps an eye on UCL has contributed to the points dropped in the last two home games. If we had Valencia and Vidic on the bench, Moyes decision to defend the game should have worked for him. But again it was a game we needed to keep pressing and retain the ball far from the defence.

* Is it that Moyes has not understood our players? Also what is the essence f a defending a slim lead? Well I will not write him off yet. Over to the next match.

Worst journalism of the century by Vanguard newspaper. Was it Nsofor they interrogated or they meant Nosa Igiebor?

Sister Antonia Brenner dies at 86; nun moved into Tijuana prison to tend to inmates


October 17, 2013⁠, 6:51 p.m.

Sister Antonia Brenner, a Beverly Hills-raised mother of seven who became a Roman Catholic nun and moved into a notorious Tijuana prison where she spent more than three decades mending broken lives, easing tensions and dispensing everything from toothbrushes to bail money, has died. She was 86.

Brenner, who had been in declining health, died Thursday of natural causes at the home of her religious order in Tijuana where her fellow sisters had cared for her in her final days, said Christina Brenner, her daughter-in-law.

She was born Mary Clarke in Los Angeles on Dec. 1, 1926, to Irish immigrant parents. Her father grew wealthy running an office supply business, and the family counted Hollywood stars such as Cary Grant among their neighbors. She married and raised four daughters and three sons, all the while becoming deeply involved in charity work.

In 1977, after her children were grown and two marriages had ended in divorce — a source of sadness that she rarely talked about — Brenner gave away her expensive clothes and belongings, left her Ventura apartment and moved to La Mesa penitentiary. She had delivered donations in the past to the prison, each visit filling her with compassion.

"Something happened to me when I saw men behind bars. … When I left, I thought a lot about the men. When it was cold, I wondered if the men were warm; when it was raining, if they had shelter," Brenner told The Times in a 1982 interview. "I wondered if they had medicine and how their families were doing. …You know, when I returned to the prison to live, I felt as if I'd come home."

Small of stature, with blue eyes peeking out from under her traditional black–and-white habit, Brenner cut a strikingly serene presence in the overcrowded prison of 8,000. She lived as any other inmate, sleeping in a 10-by-10-foot cell, eating the same food and lining up for morning roll call.

She would walk freely among thieves and drug traffickers and murderers, smiling, touching cheeks and offering prayers. Many were violent men with desperate needs. She kept extra toilet paper in her cell, arranged for medical treatment, attended funerals.

Guards and inmates alike started referring to her as the prison angel. In the cellblocks she was known simply as "Mama." "There isn't anyone who hasn't heard my lecture on victims," she said in a 2002 Times story. "They have to accept that they're wrong. They have to see the consequences. They have to feel the agony. ... But I do love them dearly."

When prayers didn't work, she took matters into her own hands. On more than a few occasions she broke up fights and quelled brewing riots. Sometimes her presence wasn't enough. In 2008, police opened fire on rioting inmates, killing more than 20. Brenner said she was in the cellblock at the time, but someone had locked the doors to the courtyard where the shooting occurred.

"I didn't know what was happening. That people were being killed," she said in an interview after the siege ended. "I was thinking, all over the world little children have to hear the sounds of guns. It's such a terrible sound."

Brenner was an energetic fundraiser who often visited Southern California to collect food and supplies. Few people said no, though sometimes she didn't leave them much choice.

Father Joe Carroll, who for many years ran the St. Vincent de Paul Village in San Diego, jokingly took to calling Brenner a "thief" for regularly clearing out his charity of donations.

"If I told her she couldn't have it, she'd just be smiling and giggling at me and putting it into her car and leaving," Carroll said in the 2010 documentary "La Mama: An American Nun's Life in a Mexican Prison."

A revered figure in Tijuana, where she counted police chiefs and politicians among her friends, Brenner was honored with the naming of a street after her outside the prison. In the late 1990s, she established her own religious order, the Eudist Servants of the Eleventh Hour. Tijuana Archbishop Rafael Romo said she possessed the qualities of a saint and said her death was a "terrible loss" for the city, the Tijuana newspaper Frontera reported.

Brenner often visited her family in Southern California, where she would regale her more than 45 grandchildren and great-grandchildren with stories about her charity work. "She was a tiny woman with a little fire and a lot of passion," Christina Brenner said. "We called her the Eveready battery. She wouldn't stop. She was always going."

She is also survived by her seven children, James, Kathleen, Theresa, Carol, Tom, Elizabeth and Anthony.

"You walk in her presence and you know you're in a different world," Carroll said. "Rhyme, reason — you can't rationalize why she did it. She has that one-on-one relationship with God."

richard.marosi@latimes

http://www.latimes.com/obituaries/la-me-sister-antonia-brenner-20131018,0,7399930.story

My own opinion is different. She was not ugly but cannot be termed as beautiful. Apart from the face she had a good stature and a flat tummy. That was okay for someone struggling to climb up the financial ladder.

The rules of football states that the ball has to completely cross the goal line to count. Without a goal line tech it is hard, and when a few cameras are used in a match. It is hard to draw a conclusion when there is no camera taking a shot from the side view of the goal line. And it is worse when the linesman is not by the corner flag at the point of action.

Although the second ball was Enyeama's fault, it is hard to conclude the ball crossed the line. It looked to be on the line, and the linesman was no where around the corner flag to take a credible decision.

The first cleared by Obaobuna looked like a goal. However, the linesman was correctly positioned when he denied the Ethopians that goal. The question is did the ball cross the line 100%? That is what a goal line tech should have showed us. The referee and linesman were not so sure, I think this was why they could not resist giving the Ethiopians the second ball which Enyeama miscalculated. The second ball didn't look like a goal to me.

Someone said, two half goals is = 1 goal. Lol

At the end it was fair. It would have been more controversial if both goals were either awarded or denied outrightly in the absence of a goal tech.

This is highly misleading.

Where is the Ikebe?

No one knows the Chaos that will follow.

Democracy don't work with Arabs. The West should leave them alone.

coogar: i am sure there was no such time, you are just making things up as usual - like telling us pogba/morrison weren't good enough in 11/12 and lying to us anderson & cleverley looked like they would rule forever. fact is - cleverley broke his foot as early as the 5th league game that season & the cleverson partnership was effectively over as early as september.

now back to rafael,
his promotion was quicker than others because neville retired. if neville was as greedy as giggs/scholes, rafael's growth would have suffered. fabio is more talented than rafael, how come he hasn't been able to displace evra? some few seasons back, evra looked like he was over the hill as he was out of form but fabio still couldn't get a sniff.

had giggs/scholes left the stage when they should have, morrison/pogba would have stayed at old trafford. rookies find it difficult to break into our first team because of fergie's love for his old boys. have you forgotten fabio started in 2010/11 champions league final after producing excellent performances throughout the season.

I don't understand which arguments you have suddenly jumped into now.

1. I have never argued anything about Morrison since joining this thread. So why are you accusing me wrongly?

2. I have never said Cleverly and Anderson played beyond 5 matches. So what are you trying to say?

3. It was you who lied about Garry Neville. You implied that Rafael couldn't have kicked a ball if Neville had not retired. Without looking far I gave you an instance. Then you mentioned rotation. I did not observe any rotation then. Rafael was already our right back, he too (Rafael) also had his injury time.
Ringht from his debutt, a UCL away fixture, Rafael established himself solidly well. Unlike these other young lads you guys are promoting.

Someone who went to school in Ukraine said he never for once paid for internet. He was using it freely.

StarBoard: You are a phoool. You not only lack knowledge, you are an ignorant jacka$$.

Darren Fletcher had only 8 league appearances for United in 2011/12 and 10 appearances in total that season for United.
His last game for United that season was in the Champions League vs Benfica in November 2011.
So how does a player who played 10 games only in a season manage to keep Paul Pogba out of the line-up?

I really don't know why you have to have this innate desire to yarn opaks.

Pogba?
Stop writing on what you don't know jare.



You really believe that?
I think you fall into the category of people who believe this "myth" that once people leave United, they do go down-hill. That's why you probably think Pogba's exit makes him look like he's ordinary.

Paul Pogba was voted best player at the last U-20 world cup. Just for starters for those of you casting doubts on his ability. So if we think that by trying to discredit him and his talent, like elampiro is trying so hard to do, then we should do a rethink because I have seen more than a handful of games he played in Juventus and he is by far a huge miss at Old Trafford whether we refuse to agree or not.

You have exposed your ignorance.

Tell me how that stat is different from my claim that when Anderson and Cleverly partnership fell to injury, Fletcher replaced one of them until everything about last six man in our team scattered and we were suddenly sinking.

You didn't watch football that year.

dademola: did u hav to mention rooney?

It was most relevant to the argument. It was a big talking point before and after the match and the commentator and TV crew focused on him during the match.

coogar: and this means what? did bebe not get picked ahead of the big boys in europe? does it mean he was better than the rest? rafael got picked because of rotation, nothing else. united were playing everton @ goodison few days after the milan game & fergie reserved neville for that game.

I am sure I saw some more times that season where Rafael was flourishing on the pitch and cameras beamed on Neville's face on the bench. Before the match in San Siro Rafael was already our best right back.

Secondly, I think the game in San Siro was far more important than any fixtures that period. We had not won there before and we were to face mighty AC Milan with Ronaldiho still dangerous. There is a great credit in starting such a young player in that encounter of such magnitude ahead of Neville, Brown and Oshea.

We can conclude that SAF was not biased in giving the younger lads opportunities. Same with non English players.

chrisley024: And we were pummelled by Yakubu abi?

Because SAF was applying his policy. He sanctioned Rooney for the match and we threatened Blackburn less.

chamotex: .

Your post above refers:

1. You surprised me. Is it at the end of a season you break into a team? You have still not showed me where I said at the END (underline 'end') of the season.

2. In the blackburn match, Anderson was also on the bench. We didn't have a defence so SAF needed a good cover for the backline. Also Rafael (and I think Fabio too) had done well in the midfield in prior games, both league and Carling cup I think. Pogba never really proven to be purposeful, turning left and right like those few days when Jay Jay Okocha had an off day on the pitch.

3. Our midfield was in tattered because those who held the keys to our early dominance had retired to injuries. Anderson, Cleverly and Fletcher. The the backline that played behind them were also injured- Jones, Rafael, Smalling. In the pre-season they beat Barca, beat Man. City in the shield, I think they had done outstandingly well until injuries tore them apart, from the defence to the midfield. Then SAF experimented with some other guys including Pogba, and it was bad. Pogba was part of the tattered era.

StarBoard: More village-square idi.ocy
You seem to want to be deliberately stupid.
No further comments.
Like I said, you hardly watch any continental games to know how well he plays, so I can excuse your ignorance.

We had a midfield to rule Europe but crumbled at the group stages of the Champions League.
Fletcher hardly played any ball that season if I remember (2011/12). So how are you listing him as part of the midfield staff?
How can someone who spent a large portion of the season off the field be strong enough to keep an emerging youngster?

Are you daft by default, or do you just type for the sake of it?

Why all the insults despite your clear lack of knowledge about Fletcher match stat of 2011/12 and the other comments you made up there.

Pogba was so bad that SAF had to play Rafael and Park in our midfield in some league and carling cups. Pogba was not purposeful and added nothing defensively. And it was a time too our defenders were injured such that the midfield didn't need a gambler as Pogba was offering.

Ac Milan (2) Man United (3) was only one of the instances Rafael got picked ahead of the big boys.




Man Utd

01 Van der Sar

03 Evra

05 Ferdinand

21 Rafael Da Silva (Brown 90+2)

23 Evans

13 Park

16 Carrick⁠ (red card)

17 Nani (Valencia 64)

18 Scholes

24 Fletcher

10 Rooney⁠

Substitutes

29 Kuszczak, 02 Neville, 06 Brown, 25 Valencia, 28 Gibson, 07 Owen, 09 Berbatov

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8515983.stm

coogar: how does this make sense?
gary neville retired. rafael did not send neville away. neville came out to say he's realised he's reached the point where his appearance is doing more harm than good to the team & he bowed out.

if neville didn't retire, rafael would be nowhere near the first team. fergie is weak when it comes to his fledglings. he doesn't even think they are old enough to retire. nani/young have put in enough shift to make giggs retire. anderson/carrick/fletcher made enough impact to have retired scholes in 2009.....but the dinosaurs simply refused to go back then.

I guess I saw an injury free Gary Neville, Brown and Oshea sat on the bench several times when Rafael played.

Man United- Fellaini is not fit.

Belgium- Fellaini is fit.