₦airaland Forum

Aemmyjah:
I have answered you already
Jesus himself both in the NT and OT was said to have a beginning and with someone. Through him, all things were created. That's why same Proverbs said he was with God during the time of Creation.

The source of all things, the father of all creation, the one Jesus described as His father, His God and our God, the one Jesus prayed to and taught us to pray to, the one who lifted Jesus to a superior authority above the angels, the voice John heard at Jesus baptism, the one Stephen saw Jesus standing by His right hand. He is the source of all things. No equal, he was not with anyone in the beginning cos he has no beginning, the one who never sleeps or die, the source of all wisdom and life and goodness. He is the Alpha and Omega. He has always existed - he never had a father or acknowledge anyone as his Father. He created all things, he is the Father of Jesus (his firstborn and beginning of his way (creation)
He is the Omega. Nothing exceeds him or after him and he'll bring an end to this wicked system


Keep crying
trying to prove that Jesus is God, son of God, equal to son, from God... If you like, tell us that Jesus is the Father of God. Wetin concern me?

We know who is crying and in painment here

When you're okay, go back and answer my questions.

Aemmyjah:
Now who was the 'eternal wisdom' of God at Proverbs 8:22,23?
Jesus or someone else?

So A BEING MUST BE WISDOM OF GOD; o ma se oooo

Since you agree that Jesus is the WISDOM OF GOD then Jesus can't be created because that means God created His own WISDOM.

Aemmyjah:
If you like run
The entire context refers to one Person
Even commentary and scholars point it as referring to Jesus

Now you agreed that commentary and scholars point it that it refers to Jesus but you'll disagree with same commentary and scholars on John 1:1-3, Col 1:16-18

Hypocrite!

1 Corinthians 1:24 — King James Version (KJV )
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Keep running

Do you even know the implications of this?

Jesus is THE POWER OF JEHOVAH and The Wisdom of Jehovah.

Aemmyjah:
Nebuchadnezzar
Jesus
Artaxerxes
Yahweh
All are referred to as king of kings

Does that capacity mean the same thing or they refer to just one sole person?

You didn't answer my question, why?

Answer my question and you'll get answer to yours.

See that he couldn't address any of my questions, typical jws lying liar.

Aemmyjah:
Olodo
Did I say the Father is the beginning as I meant Jesus?

See he real Olodo.

So the Father being The Beginning is different from Jesus being The Beginning

Jehovah is the source of life and everything. He is the only true God. You know what the Shema says. He is not associated with having a beginning unlike Jesus. He has always existed whereas the Word has not. The Word was with God, his father!

Just as Jesus was not associated with having a beginning.
Jesus is That ETERNAL LIFE, can eternal Life be created?

Jesus has always existed

That is why you can't answer, do you agree that Jesus is Alpha and Omega?

Aemmyjah:
Wisdom is not a person na
Who was speaking?

Answered!

EreluRoz:
If Jesus never preached about religion

Using dictionary, one will simply understand the meaning of religion.

Though many people have come to say even Christianity isn't a religion, likewise Islam.

but strictly about God and not to associate anything with Him, it's the same thing Islam preaches, so where did the idea of religion emanated from?

He said Trinity is manmade, I have somehow never believed in this trinity thing though.

The thing is, unless one rejected many statements from the Bible only then one will reject Trinity which means you can't claim to agree with ALL what the Bible says then reject the Trinity.

Or if you have problem with the word Trinity then choose whatever to call it because Bible described Jesus as ETERNAL, likewise the Holy Spirit.

MaxInDHouse:
Until i admit it's your personal opinion nah!

Your statement placed side by side

"but both Moses and Jesus admitted that they are both SERVANTS..."

"Moses also never said with his mouth that he is a servant of God"

No be me talk am

MaxInDHouse:
I know you will be running from pillar to post

Evidence abound of who is running from pillar to post.

but both Moses and Jesus admitted that they are both SERVANTS of someone GREATER than them.

Then provide where Jesus ADMITTED that, why is that too much for you to bear?

Whoever comes to SERVE another person is the SERVANT of that person.

Then answer my question, if you're not a liar and coward.

Does sending your son make him YOUR SERVANT?

Moses also never said with his mouth that he is a servant of God but from all indication he admitted that he was SERVING someone GREATER than him the same thing Jesus did!

Well I don't need anything more to say @color, you already proved that you're a liar.

QED

MaxInDHouse:
Perhaps you should check the meaning of the word "SERVANT"

Oxford dictionary!

*One who is hired to perform regular household or other duties, and receives compensation. As opposed to a slave.
There are three servants in the household, the butler and two maids.
▼ show
*One who serves another, providing help in some manner.
She is quite the humble servant, the poor in this city owe much to her but she expects nothing.
*(religion) A person who dedicates themselves to God.
*(obsolete) A professed lover.
A person of low condition or spirit.

Jesus DEDICATED himself to SERVE God when he went to John the baptist from that day he stopped being a carpenter to SERVE God!

You accused Jesus to have ADMITTED to something, so was it inside Dictionary your saw that from?

When you're okay answer my questions

MaxInDHouse:
If his first century disciples who heard him say he is God's servant it shows they understood when he said someone SENT him he is surely a SERVANT of that person!

Now wonder you couldn't answer my questions.

So provide where Jesus said it, how is that hard for you to do?

Does sending your Son mean he is a SERVANT?

I know you'll still pretend as if you didn't see it.

MaxInDHouse:
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his SERVANT Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

Act 3:13 NWT
The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his SERVANT, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

So it's Jesus speaking here

Again, you lied against Jesus that "HE ADMITTED"

So provide where Jesus did that.

MaxInDHouse:
According to John 4:34 is Jesus a SERVANT of someone GREATER than him?

No!

That you sent your son or daughter, does that make him/her your SERVANT?

Now, it's evident that you put this lie against Christ: Did Moses and Jesus ADMIT that they are both SERVANTS of someone GREATER than them?

If not provide where Jesus Christ ADMITTED that He is a SERVANT of someone Greater than Him.

He couldn't answer my questions as usual

Aemmyjah:
Lol
Who is the person speaking at Proverbs?
Wisdom is not a person

Answered!

Next!

King Nebuchadnezzar is described as King of Kings
Same with Artaxerxes

Othniel is described as savoir

Are these also God cos they share same title?

Now you agreed that The Father is 'THE BEGINNING' which shows you don't know your Bible before you spew that thrash that the Father was never called The Beginning.

Then go and find out the meaning of THE BEGINNING, if you understand it then you'll know why your organisation is stripping off Jesus the Title of Alpha and Omega

MaxInDHouse:
Both statements below are Jesus' own words!

“My food is to do the will of him who SENT me and to finish his work" John 4:34

So someone SENT Jesus.

"I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I am." John 14:28

And this person is GREATER than Jesus.

Now bring your previous question and place it side by side then tell me how is the same

Besides, why did you boycott my questions?

Aemmyjah:
Who is speaking at Proverbs 8:22,23?

Eternal Wisdom of Yahweh!

See how he dropped the point of The Father being The Beginning and Jesus being THE GOOD shepherd

You yourself said you still converse wit a woman you would have married and she's lamenting and regretting and even blaming a whole organization?
Only a greedy husband will do such

False narrative!

Anyways, since you're of your father the Devil. Can I tell you to stop that?

Aemmyjah:
What is the meaning of Alpha and Omega and in what sense is this title applied? Alpha is the beginning and Omega is conclusion

So is Father The Beginning?

Do you agree Jesus is Alpha and Omega?

Jesus said he is the beginning of God's creation and Jehovah produced him

Jesus is The Beginning just like the Father also called Himself The Beginning then you'll be fine.

Jesus never said Jehovah produced him.

You can bring your evidence from the scripture.

Poor Christian targeting us cos of someone wife

False accuser like your father the Devil.

Provide your evidence

Ignorant Christian
No wonder why you call Trinity a mystery even when you rarely acknowledge the Holy ghost Spirit

If not because you're the very ignorant here, we don't acknowledge the Holy Spirit yet you know about Trinity

What did Jesus say when someone called him Good? Was Jesus correcting the man to refer to himself?

No! Jesus didn't correct the person rather asked the person a right question to lead the person aright.

Don't forget "Jesus is THE GOOD shepherd"

If you agree that ONLY ALMIGHTY GOD is good then Jesus is Almighty God for being THE GOOD shepherd.

You guys say Jesus is God, Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is equal to God... Confused churchgoer

I've told you if you want Bible study on this just tell me your problem.

Greedy for someone's wife

You think repeating this lie thousand times will save you from receiving Bible study to cure your scriptural deficiency? You're wrong

MaxInDHouse:
Did Moses and Jesus admit that they are both SERVANTS of someone GREATER than them?

No! Jesus never claimed to be a SERVANT of someone GREATER than Him.

Now my questions:

Did Moses also be the ONLY PERSON DIRECTLY CREATED BY GOD (as you believe about Jesus Christ)?

Did Moses witness the creation of all OTHER things (as your translation perverted the scripture)?

Did Moses be the one sustaining the universe by the POWER of His word - Heb 1:3, Col 1:17?

MaxInDHouse:
There's no need going into fruitless arguments

You presented your point I presented mine, so it's not fruitless unless you agree yours is fruitless.

since you have agreed that both of them are SERVANTS of someone GREATER than them

This is not how you put what I agreed with, so why lying?

and the Bible equates them at Deuteronomy 18:18 which Peter confirmed that Jesus was the one compared to Moses as the prophet to come in the likeness of Moses. Act 3:22

Bible did not equate them.

Bible only compared them which is even just a part out of ALL ways scripture described Jesus.

To equate means:

Moses must also be the ONLY PERSON DIRECTLY CREATED BY GOD (as you believe about Jesus Christ).

Moses must witness the creation of all OTHER things (as your translation perverted the scripture).

Moses must be the one sustaining the universe by the POWER of His word. Heb 1:3, Col 1:17

I think the case is settled!

Only if you agreed with the above.

MaxInDHouse:
Good!
Which means Moses and Jesus are SERVANTS of the most High God who represented Him as Gods in times past!
Exodus 7:1
John 1:1
Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Thank you!

Smile.....

Moses is just a servant of God!

Jesus is called ALL.

Jesus is Almighty God
Jesus is the Creator
Jesus is Alpha and Omega
Jesus is The Beginning
Jesus is that very Eternal Life
Jesus is Son of God
Jesus is Son of man
Jesus is a prophet
Jesus is King of kings
Jesus is Lord
Jesus is the Saviour

So your attempt to equate them won't fly.

Even your gods in Warwick know that it's an insult to put Jesus and Moses side by side.

MaxInDHouse:
So case closed since you don't agree with the translation i have

That is the beautiful of having different translations to compare and contrast.

one thing is sure both Moses and Jesus expressly said they were sent by someone GREATER than them and they can't do anything else apart from what that one approves!

No doubt about that as well stated in the scriptures.

MaxInDHouse:
This is what my Bible says:
Exodus 3:8

I will go down to rescue them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a land good and spacious, a land flowing with milk and honey, the territory of the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Amʹor·ites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites

Just as He told Abraham saying:
Genesis 18:21

I will go down to see whether they are acting according to the outcry that has reached me. And if not, I can get to know it.”

Well, your Bible translation isn't accurate and the two scenarios aren't the same.

In the case of Moses, no physical appearance only the power of God in display with a voice so the right word was used "I have come down..." as translated by most versions.

In the case of Abraham, three men physically APPEARED and THEY ACTUALLY WENT DOWN TO Sodom and Gomorrah.

This is very clear in the conversation.

"20 The Lord said, “Abraham, I have heard that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are doing all kinds of evil things. 21 Now I am going down to see for myself if those people really are that bad. If they aren't, I would like to know.” 22 The men turned and started toward Sodom. But the Lord stayed with Abraham."

This simply means God will be the one using His Holy Spirit to do the great things while the onlookers are only seeing Moses or Jesus who are God's representatives. Exodus 3:12 compare to John 8:16

Well God is not a liar, He told Abraham He will go down to Sodom and Gomorrah Himself.

And never told Moses He will go down to Egypt Himself.

That is the point.

Steep:
these are not errors at all.

You're taking that person serious...

Ask her where she got everything she knows about God and Jesus Christ, if not from the same Book she claims it contains errors and contradictions.

Kobojunkiee:
Jesus Christ declaring His Word everlasting means no man has power or authority to add or remove or change any of that which He declared. He is God's Law after all. And it is against God to add, change, or remove from His Law. According to you, Paul extended(changed) that which Jesus Christ previously declared to include His ideas. So, do you not see how what you accuse Paul of doing stands in direct violation of Jesus Christ?

Do you believe the same Christ when He said this? "12 I have much more to say to you, but right now it would be more than you could understand. 13 The Spirit shows what is true and will come and guide you into the full truth. The Spirit doesn't speak on his own. He will tell you only what he has heard from me, and he will let you know what is going to happen. 14 The Spirit will bring glory to me by taking my message and telling it to you."

Did Jesus actually fulfill His promises?

Did Holy Spirit actually receive Jesus messages and delivered them to the Apostles?

MaxInDHouse:
Come down to rescue..... from the hands or powers of Egypt!

This was your previous statement:

@ Exodus 3:8
God promised to go down to Egypt and rescue the Israelites!

Which implies GOD HIMSELF and the reason @Steep asked you to show him where it was stated.

But reading that verse it shows that God CAME DOWN as in appeared to Moses, that is why it was put as 'I have come down' Present Perfect Tense

Should we begin English class on that?

Aemmyjah:
De play
Jesus mentioned he has someone greater than he is

Very clear and nobody argues that

He's not before that one

Nobody said this as well

But the scripture does say Jesus is BEFORE ALL THINGS

And Only THE Creator is BEFORE ALL THINGS

Besides, do you translate Greek version word for word

Per as a scholar

Aemmyjah:
Nowhere did the father call himself the beginning
De cap nonsense

Kai and you will be calling yourself a literate person.

What is the meaning of 'Alpha'?

Why do you think watchtower is trying to make it sound that Jesus didn't call Himself 'Alpha and Omega's in Revelation?



You must learn in hard way

MaxInDHouse:
Do you have Exodus 3:8 in your copy of the Bible?

This is Exo 3:8 where did God say He will go to Egypt?

CEV: and I have come down to rescue them from the Egyptians. I will bring my people out of Egypt into a country where there is a lot of good land, rich with milk and honey. I will give them the land where the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites now live.

KJV: And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

NLT: So I have come down to rescue them from the power of the Egyptians and lead them out of Egypt into their own fertile and spacious land. It is a land flowing with milk and honey—the land where the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites now live.

Aemmyjah:
Same Paul wrote that this Jesus will never be seen again.
The appearance there is figurative - literal in the spiritual sense

If figurative was not used maybe the blindfolding could have fell off

Aemmyjah:
John 1:1 associated Jesus having a beginning
He is before all things

See ignorance in play

So BEGINNING is not part of ALL THINGS.

At least you agreed that He is BEFORE ALL THINGS.

But he's not before God, his father ans creator

How can Jesus BEFORE HIS FATHER?

Since you agreed that Jesus is BEFORE ALL THINGS means Jesus is the Creator because ONLY GOD is BEFORE ALL THINGS.

Reason why the Father also called Himself 'The Beginning"

That is why your fraud organisation trying to change the narrative by inserting the word 'OTHER' multiple times in that Col 1:17-18 because of its implication if they agree that Jesus is actually BEFORE ALL THINGS.

Well, the truth is Col 1:18 still uphold Jesus as "The Beginning"

Well, glory be to God watchtower isn't in charge of manuscripts they'd have changed many things just to support their demonic doctrines.

I'm happy to announce to you that the word OTHER has no place in Greek manuscripts.

For you to keep dodging my questions shows how dishonest you are.

jesusjnr2020:
The King James version is the best and most accurate translation of the ancient texts of both old testament and new testament of the Bible, so for you to be desperately seeking other translations of the Bible in an attempt to dodge what is clearly stated there and needs no further explanation, shows that you cherry-pick what to believe in Paul's teachings.

So funny of you.

You're ignorant to think what KJV says is different from what those other translations say in that verse.

Both are saying the same thing just that your level of comprehension is to low for that.

It obviously contradicts and exposes the gross error of your belief that all of Paul's teachings were inspired of God, that why you're trying to dodge it by all possible means, even though Paul himself clearly stated it there.

I Corinthians 7:12 (KJV)

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

The bolded needed no further explanation, hence why most other translations of this verse didn't see the need to change it, but for the few warped translations you desperately searched out which didn't still exonorate you, but just made the clear saying ambiguous, which was enough encouragement for you to think you can twist it to escape from that saying which clearly exposes your hypocrisy and erroneous beliefs.

Yes all Paul teachings are inspired that you lack understanding of it isn't anybody's fault.

That's why I asked you, how will you have addressed those issues Paul addressed considering the fact that Jesus didn't address them?

Tomorrow you will start accusing the JW's of the same, but here you are doing exactly the same thing to prove you're no different from them but just a fellow hypocrite.

Whatever I say about jws I support it with scriptures I just don't counter people just on my own opinions.

Just as I'm doing with you right now by providing different translations to buttress my point.

And you can't still counter it by providing your own evidence.

Also you keep ignorantly saying why Jesus didn't correct him as if Jesus was here in person while Paul was preaching, so you would know when Jesus corrects or corrected him. At least you know Jesus severally corrected and rebuked (the erroneous teachings and beliefs of) His apostles after He chose them while He was here on Earth, to prove that even though He chose them, they're not inerrant and not all they say or teach was inspired of God as you blindly believe. Matthew 16:23.

But before Jesus ascended, he told His disciples that He has many things to say to them which they can't bear now but that The Holy Spirit will come and GUIDE THEM INTO all TRUTH.

Your first spiritual weakness is to think UNTIL JESUS IS PRESENT PHYSICALLY then He will correct His apostles when Jesus already gave guidelines on how event will turn before ascending.

Just like I ask and you keep dodging, if Paul is teaching errors who is in best place to point it out, You or Christ?

Do you think Christ will fold hands and allow Paul to be teaching errors which in other ways leading people astray?

Saying Paul teaching contains errors means Paul actually led millions astray because an erroneous messages mean unacceptable message by God, do you agree with this?

And please stop continuously contradicting or lying to yourself that you never said any human is infallible or inerrant, because if you believe and repeatedly keep saying the teachings of apostle Paul cannot possibly have errors, it is tantamount to believing or saying he is inerrant or infallible. If you believe he is fallible, then the same goes for his teachings. You cannot eat your cake and still have it so stop this confusion please.

Yes I never said any human is infallible, you can provide anywhere you caught me saying that.

Yes Paul's teaching can't contains errors because Paul was personally chosen by Christ Himself and I don't believe Christ will allow Paul to mislead people through his teachings.

I believe only Christ is inerrant and consequently His teachings, hence why I distinguish His teachings from those of the apostles, which i believe could contain errors since they're not inerrant as Christ was.

But were the apostles under the control and guidance of God's Holy spirit?

Can Holy Spirit teach errors?

I leave these questions to you if you like answer them or not.

jesusjnr2020:
There's no need for too much talk with you because the King James Version is clear enough for even the blind to see and understand, so it's unless you have ulterior motives as the JW's that you will be seeking a warped translation that suits your antichrist agenda.

If not because of ignorance, you should know that I didn't reject KJV but emphasis on simple comprehension. This happened everywhere some books explain or shield more light on a subject than others. Not that the rest aren't correct.

Well, this shows you truly lack understanding of the verse you're accusing Paul for.

You're the one who has been accusing others of cherry-picking whatever suits them from Paul's teachings, so if you don't accept that this teaching of Paul was from him, not from God as he clearly stated, that you're nothing but a hypocrite!

If I'm cherry picking I won't provide more than three different translations that explained that verse in simple language.

So, since you're confused and lack comprehension I did that stressful work to enlighten you.

Here is it again just incase you think you can dodge his teaching which exposes your ignorance that all Paul teachings were inspired of God.

I Corinthians 7:12 (KJV)

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

If I dodged it I won't provide up to 5 different translations that speak on the subject matter.
Maybe, you'll accuse me of translating those versions.

By the way, it's not only ignorant but also foolish to think that one must accept everything someone says or teaches, including any errors, just because the person is an apostle and was chosen by Jesus.

This where you failed to acknowledge your mistake and reason why you dodged my questions.

No one claim Paul is perfect and can't make mistake (personal life) but when it comes to God's work and teaching, do you think Jesus who called Paul to work will be watching and allows Paul to teach WRONG MESSAGE? Holy spirit was their to guide the Apostle on Gospel message just as Jesus Himself said.

That's one problem with the church today because being chosen of Christ or apostle of Christ doesn't make one inerrant, hence the embracing of many antichrist and man-made ideas and doctrines which has made the Word of God to be of little or no effect.

Say your church and not that of the Christ and I never claim any where since I join nairaland that any human is perfect and infallible.

You can quote me wrong if you ever come across it.

We have Bible as God's word where we can cross check anyone today.

That's why I asked you, how will you address many things Jesus didn't talk about but were asked of Paul, if you're to be in Paul's shoe?

Will you lie Christ taught it or not?

Will Jesus correct Paul for any wrong teaching or leave him to be misleading people and teaching error?

It's only Christ who is inerrant that deserves such total loyalty and adherence to His Words from those who are truly His followers, not anyone else. Not even Paul, unless he has taken the place of Christ in your life and is now your master and lord not Christ. Of course that's the truth with many Christians today, including yourself, even though you may deny that glaring fact.

All these are not necessary because I never said any human is infallible.

If you want to be truthful to yourself, answer my questions above.